The Times Tech Podcast
Episode: Forget your employees – how hard is your AI agent working?
Hosts: Danny Fortson (San Francisco), Katie Prescott (London)
Air Date: March 27, 2026
Episode Overview
In this episode, Danny Fortson and Katie Prescott explore the rapidly shifting role of AI agents in the workplace, focusing on how companies are measuring productivity not just by human output but increasingly by AI usage—measured in “tokens.” With AI “agent swarms” taking on more of the workload, both employees and executives are grappling with a new anxiety: are you using enough AI to keep up, and what does that mean for the future of work and software itself? The hosts break down industry trends, share real-world examples, introduce their own newsroom’s AI “pet,” and interview Dean Forbes, CEO of Fortero, a leader in industrial software. Together, they dissect whether we’re entering a productivity boom or a jobs apocalypse.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Shifting Legal Landscape: Social Media on Trial
- Meta and Google found liable in social media addiction trial (01:21)
- “This is, I will say, monumental... You are tobacco, you have to pay for things as if you are a tobacco company. So this could be the beginning of a very huge change in social media.” — Danny Fortson [01:31]
- Previews broader regulatory and ethical scrutiny in tech.
2. AI Agents in the Workplace: Productivity Redefined
- Rise of "AI Agent Swarms" and ‘Token’ Metrics (03:14)
- “Engineers aren’t just writing code anymore. They’re using armies of AI agents, and they need to come up with a better name.” — Danny Fortson [03:14]
- Tokens: Units representing AI output, now seen as a proxy for productivity and influence.
- “They’re becoming a bit of a currency. So engineers...are now judged on how many tokens they’re using.” — Katie Prescott [03:40]
- Token Anxiety & Performance Pressure
- AI usage becoming a KPI; not using enough may now jeopardize career advancement (Meta, Nvidia examples).
- “So this has started to create a culture of token anxiety in Silicon Valley.” — Katie Prescott [05:03]
- “It's really interesting because...it’s supposed to lead to us working less...But instead people are working more.” — Danny Fortson [05:17]
3. Job Apocalypse or Productivity Boom?
- Are AI Agents Augmenting or Replacing Workers?
- Ongoing job cuts tied (or attributed) to AI, e.g., Mark Zuckerberg at Meta, debut of “AI CEO agent”. (06:15)
- Hosts ponder whether AI marks the start of Universal Basic Income—or job elimination: “Is the agentic era a productivity boom or is it the beginning of a job apocalypse?” — Danny Fortson [06:21]
- SaaS Market ‘Sasspocalypse’
- AI agent automation hitting valuations of big and small software companies.
- “Now we have agents and vibe coding...don’t necessarily need many of the software products...That’s led to a collapse in..." — Katie Prescott [06:37]
4. Experimentation with In-house AI Agents
- Times Business Desk’s AI “Class Pet”
- Introduction of ‘Snappy,’ an OpenClaw agent (AI running on Raspberry Pi) — an internal experiment.
- “Snappy is on the eighth floor...probably be doing some writing...definitely be doing some research” — Katie Prescott [09:13]
- Raises question: Could such agents replace entry-level staff?
- Comparison to Cleveland Plain Dealer's “AI reporter” as an example of newsroom automation [09:33].
5. From Answer Engines to Action Engines
- Agents as Digital Butlers and Enterprise Tools
- Nvidia’s Jensen Huang declares OpenClaw moment “bigger than the ChatGPT moment.”
- “This is now an action agent...the promise of that—everybody’s going to have their own Jarvis, their own digital butler” — Danny Fortson [10:54]
- Corporate strategy shifting: Buy AI tokens or hire interns?
- Identity Crisis for Tech Workers
- Aditya Agrawal (ex-CTO, Dropbox) reflects on seeing his skills replicated by AI:
- “There’s something deeply disorienting about watching the pillars of your professional identity get reproduced in a weekend by a tool that doesn’t need to eat or sleep.” [12:05]
- Yet, he also notes new creative possibilities and “superpowers”.
- Aditya Agrawal (ex-CTO, Dropbox) reflects on seeing his skills replicated by AI:
6. Token Maxing & Industry Paranoia
- Culture of “Token Maxing”
- Employees now maximize AI usage (token output) to signal value.
- “Now it’s becoming a KPI, a key performance indicator, something that’s going to be used for your reviews.” — Danny Fortson [14:51]
- “We are in a super weird time right now and everybody’s trying to, like, you know, protect themselves basically.” — Danny Fortson [15:33]
In-depth Interview: Dean Forbes, CEO of Fortero
(18:12–41:46)
Forbes’ Background & Fortero’s Role
- Dean Forbes: From homeless South London teenager and aspiring footballer to CEO of a leading industrial software firm.
- Fortero: Core software provider to the mid-market manufacturing sector in Europe (“the backbone of the economy”).
- “We provide the core systems and the backbone applications that people who manufacture things [use]...” — Dean Forbes [19:09]
Navigating “Sasspocalypse” & Technological Upheaval
- Enterprises are anxious: “$250 trillion has been wiped from enterprise software companies’ market cap in the last 80 or so days.” — Dean Forbes [29:19]
- Immense upheaval of longstanding business models—pricing, recurring revenue, cloud—due to AI.
- But: Most mid-market customers want tech that just works, not DIY automation.
Impact of AI on Workforce & Skills
- DM: Blending human and AI strengths:
- “We’ve created a lot of value with human endeavor and intelligence...[now] that can now be supported and enhanced with AI.” [32:25]
- Growth enables employment to stay steady, even as productivity per employee goes up.
- “AI-washing” — companies highlighting AI for layoffs that may have been coming anyway.
Precision over Paranoia
- For mid-market manufacturing, AI serves as “people enabling” support:
- “For the kind of work we do...we have to be correct, we have to be precise...AI at least at the moment...still has some propensity to be a little bit off...So at least for now, the value and efficiencies to be gained through deploying AI tools is people enabling and people accelerating.” — Dean Forbes [34:41]
Career Advice for the Next Generation
- Blue-collar comeback: Jobs that require hands-on skill (e.g., plumbers, electricians) could become premium as white-collar entry roles are automated.
- “We seem to be going back to where blue collar work is a premium...because those jobs are last in line to be automated meaningfully by AI.” [36:25]
Building Tech Companies: US vs. UK/Europe
- US scale is easier; Europe is fragmented with regulatory/language barriers.
- “That makes it harder, in my opinion, to do that in Europe, which is why I have huge admiration for...my European colleagues who have built scale companies.” — Dean Forbes [39:52]
Robotics Revolution—Hype vs. Reality
- Robotics in manufacturing is growing—more “real than not,” but timeline still unclear.
- Forbes emphasizes societal impacts over just automation rate:
- “The broader question is the societal impact...what happens when we've automated our companies...that makes the problem a little bit worse.” [41:26]
Memorable Quotes & Moments
-
On token anxiety:
“It is no longer about doing your job well. It's about proving that you're keeping up with the machines.” — Katie Prescott [05:03] -
On AI’s effect on self-worth:
“There’s something deeply disorienting about watching the pillars of your professional identity get reproduced in a weekend by a tool that doesn't need to eat or sleep.” — Danny Fortson quoting Aditya Agrawal [12:05] -
On job market shift:
“We seem to be going back to where blue collar work is a premium...those jobs are last in line to be automated meaningfully by AI.” — Dean Forbes [36:25] -
On robotics:
“Probably more real than not...but again, to what timeline? Who knows?...The societal impact is probably more the thing to focus on than if, you know, is it two robots per factory or 10?” — Dean Forbes [41:26]
Notable Segment Timestamps
- Landmark legal ruling against Meta/Google: 01:21
- Defining AI tokens and their new workplace role: 03:14–04:22
- Token anxiety and performance reviews: 05:03–05:17
- Sasspocalypse & company valuation drops: 06:37–07:22
- Introduction of Snappy, the AI newsroom agent: 08:29–09:13
- Nvidia’s “OpenClaw moment” and shift to action agents: 10:54–12:05
- In-depth interview with Dean Forbes: 18:12–41:46
- Blue collar jobs and future-proofing careers: 36:25
- Discussion on robotics and the future of automation: 40:43–41:46
Final Thoughts
The episode serves as a snapshot of a tech world in upheaval: a time of extraordinary productivity gains—and existential anxiety—driven by the proliferation of AI agents. The hosts and their guest highlight the competition to remain relevant, the struggle to measure value, and the uncertain future of work, reminding listeners that while the robots may be coming, the human story remains as complex and compelling as ever.
Contact the show:
techpod@thetimes.co.uk