The Times Tech Podcast

Episode Title: The Race for Quantum Supremacy
Date: August 14, 2025
Hosts: Danny Fortson (San Francisco) & Katie Prescott (London)
Main Guest: Nicolo de Massi, CEO of IonQ

Episode Overview

This episode dives into "The Race for Quantum Supremacy," exploring the geopolitics, investment frenzy, and real-world applications of quantum computing. Hosts Danny Fortson and Katie Prescott break down the latest headlines in technology, discuss the shifting power dynamics of the AI and chip industries, and feature an in-depth interview with Nicolo de Massi, CEO of quantum computing firm IonQ.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Host Catch-Up and Tech Gadgets

(Start – 06:00)

• Meta's AI Glasses: Katie returns from a break sporting Meta's new AI-powered glasses and discusses their functionality, hands-free features, and her experience trying them out.
  • “I have a little voice in my ear that I can ask questions to, can say, hey, Meta, what's the top tech news today?” — Katie Prescott (03:17)
  • Playful banter about tech adoption and generational gadgets.

2. Nvidia, AMD, and US-China Chip Deal

(06:00 – 12:30)

• Unexpected Policy Shift: US chipmakers Nvidia and AMD negotiate a deal to pay 15% of revenues to the US Treasury in exchange for selling certain chips to China, despite earlier national security bans.
  • Hosts note the flip-flopping in policy and implications for global tech supply chains.
  • “It feels very, as you say, transactional, or almost like, you know, mob. Like, you know, ‘Oh, you want to do business here? Where's my cut?’”—Danny Fortson (08:12)
  • Chinese government takes a public stance against buying US chips, possibly as face-saving.
• Implications:
  • Strategic value of AI chips in international relations.
  • Policy uncertainty is paralyzing for industries and governments in the UK and globally.

3. Apple's Innovation Stagnation

(12:30 – 16:20)

• Critique of Tim Cook's Strategy: Danny and Katie discuss Apple’s focus on buying back $700 billion of its own stock rather than innovating or acquiring new technologies.
  • “What would you say the last real product drop was from Apple?”—Danny Fortson (14:25)
  • Apple’s slow AI rollout and comparison with faster-moving competitors noted.
  • Apple’s past product launches (AirPods, VR goggles) discussed with skepticism.
  • Regulatory and antitrust issues brewing in Europe and the US.
  • “It's like there's an earthquake going on and Tim Cook's sitting still like Buddha in the middle of it all…”—Katie Prescott (16:01)

4. Perplexity's Bid for Google Chrome

(16:20 – 19:43)

• Audacious and Possibly Trolling Attempt:
  • AI startup Perplexity makes headlines by submitting a $34.5 billion bid to acquire Google Chrome—double the company's own valuation.
  • Hosts mock the credibility of the bid and see it as a clever PR stunt.
  • “I'd like to be President of the United States. That doesn't mean it's going to happen.”—Danny Fortson (16:53)
  • The move is timed as Google faces antitrust proceedings over search monopoly.

5. Main Segment: Interview with Nicolo de Massi (IonQ CEO)

(19:47 – 51:09)

a. Quantum Computing: What and Why?

• Big Picture:
  • Quantum computing’s potential described as “the largest, most impactful and final piece of the computing revolution.” (21:04)
  • Solves unsolvable problems for classical computers (drug discovery, logistics, national security).
  • “They will add a lot of value… to unsolvable problems or problems that will take even the world's fastest supercomputer a century or even potentially a billion years to solve.”—Nicolo de Massi (21:32)

b. IonQ vs The Competition

• IonQ’s Edge:
  • Claims to hold the lead in turning on quantum computers in cloud environments, selling systems globally, and doing “useful work” today (24:14).
  • “Our machines have been on the public Google, Amazon, Microsoft, cloud for five years since our IPO." —Nicolo de Massi (24:14)
  • Cautiously downplays prototypes of larger incumbents like IBM and Google, saying others are still producing what IonQ did a decade ago (28:47).

c. Is Quantum Practical Today?

• Growth Trajectory:
  • Quantum advances at a doubly exponential rate, with each ‘logical qubit’ doubling compute space.
  • Cites recent performance: 36 algorithmic qubits (last year), next device to be 64–100 logical qubits, potentially 240 million times more powerful (31:05).
  • “Every time we add a logical qubit, we're doubling the compute space.” —Nicolo de Massi (31:05)
• Customer Base:
  • Governments, telcos, financial institutions, and Fortune/FTSE companies make up clientele, focused on applications with high-value and computational demands (34:30).

d. Quantum Bubble? Valuation & Demand

• Valuation Skepticism:
  • Despite hefty $13 billion valuation and $20 million in quarterly sales, de Massi says high multiples are not unprecedented in tech (33:13).
  • “We trade at a similar multiple to companies like Nvidia, Palantir, Palo Alto Networks."—Nicolo de Massi (33:04)

e. The Oxford Ionics Deal and Geopolitics

• $1.1 Billion UK Acquisition:
  • Oxford Ionics seen as “a merger of two great technical roadmaps,” aiming to cement UK-US advantage over Chinese quantum progress (38:25–39:50).
  • UK’s industrial anxiety over losing tech talent and companies to US buyers addressed; de Massi says IonQ is betting big on UK growth and treating the deal as a “merger of equals” (40:10).
• Security Review:
  • Deal still under National Security Investment Act review (42:10, 42:20).
  • Quantum is a “systemically important” technology, drawing scrutiny from “three letter agencies” in the US and UK.
  • “If the US and UK don't congeal behind... IonQ... the chances of the Five Eyes... prevailing in the sort of quantum space race decline dramatically.”—Nicolo de Massi (43:36)

f. UK vs US Tech Markets

• Capital Market Dynamics:
  • Liquidity, not regulation, is the primary reason why UK startups seek US listings.
  • “The US public capital investor pool is even larger than all of Europe on a combined basis.” —Nicolo de Massi (46:17)

g. Coolest Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On hype vs. reality:
  • “People want exposure to these businesses... even if they don't understand them because they feel the promise is there.” —Katie Prescott (51:09)
• On industry communication:
  • “I think that industry just has a marketing problem. It has a nomenclature problem... every time you add a logical qubit... what does that mean?” —Danny Fortson (50:13)

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Katie Prescott (03:17): “I have a little voice in my ear that I can ask questions to, can say, hey, Meta, what's the top tech news today?”
• Danny Fortson (08:12): “It feels very... transactional, or almost like, you know, mob. Like... ‘Oh, you want to do business here? Where's my cut?’”
• Nicolo de Massi (21:04): “Quantum computing is... the largest, most impactful and final piece of the computing revolution.”
• Nicolo de Massi (31:05): “Every time we add a logical qubit, we're doubling the compute space.”
• Danny Fortson (14:25): “What would you say the last real product drop was from Apple?”
• Katie Prescott (16:01): “It's like there's an earthquake going on and Tim Cook's sitting still like Buddha in the middle of it all...”
• Katie Prescott (51:09): “People want exposure to these businesses, you know, a little bit like they do the AI industry, even if they don't understand them because they feel the promise is there.”

Key Interview Timestamps

• [21:04] — Nicolo de Massi introduces what makes quantum the “final piece” of the computing revolution.
• [24:14] — Discussion on IonQ’s advantages versus major competitors.
• [31:05] — Explanation of quantum growth and ‘logical qubits.’
• [34:30] — IonQ’s client segments and how they use quantum computing.
• [40:10] — UK tech anxiety and IonQ’s assurances on jobs and investment post-acquisition.
• [43:36] — The geopolitical stakes of US/UK quantum leadership.
• [46:17] — On why UK startups list in the US: depth and liquidity of capital markets.

Tone & Style

• Language: Conversational, witty, and occasionally skeptical; hosts balance industry optimism with critical questioning.
• Vibe: Lively, insightful, and accessible for a general audience but not shy about diving deep into the tech weeds.

Final Thoughts

• The episode offers a revealing look at the intersection of quantum computing, geopolitics, and investment hype.
• While quantum’s transformative promise is clear, both hosts voice ongoing skepticism about timelines and real-world impacts—a tension echoed in investment markets and governments alike.
• “Every time you talk to one of the folks in the space, they're like, ‘This is going to change everything...’ But it all still feels very theoretical…” —Danny Fortson (51:21)

This rich, candid discussion captures the current state of quantum technology—poised between hype and reality, with massive stakes riding on who will lead the next computing revolution.