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Get ready to take a flamethrower to
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the official narrative and learn what the elites don't want you to know.
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You're listening to the Tom Woods Show.
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Hey everybody, Tom woods here. It's episode 2656, the Tom Woods Show. We got Scott Horton on here for obvious reasons. He's coming to us from Pork Fest. So I appreciate Scott's good naturedness being willing to come on under unusual circumstances, but the whole circumstance is unusual with what's going on in the Middle East. And I just thought if we don't hear from Scott Horton, we are adrift. If you don't know who Scott Horton is, I almost don't know what to tell you at this point, but he is director of the Libertarian Institute. He's the author most recently of Provoked, which was very deliberately titled that way, about the war in Ukraine. His work on the war on terror is just without peer and I want to talk to him about what's going on right now. So Scott, you ready to dig in?
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Yes, sir, absolutely. Thank you for having me, Tom.
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All right, so there's a bunch of things that need to be discussed here, but you know, anybody's following the news at all knows that conflict broke out between Israel and Iran. Israel just started hitting targets in Iran and then Iran seems to be retaliating. In the meantime, we got Donald Trump saying he'll define for us what America first means and America first means Iran doesn't get a nuclear weapon. What's going on here, Scott is just wild. He's got major like right wing supporters who are saying we're bailing over this and it's just like, eh, you know, just shrug it off. Oh well, you know, I guess you're just a kook. So that means Marjorie Taylor Greene, Steve Bannon, Jack Posobic, Tucker Carlson, a bunch. Just saying we're, we're just not doing this and doesn't seem to be phasing Anyway. Just give me your initial thought about all this.
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A
Well, it's a disaster, as you know and most of your audience knows and as I've been explaining, I guess to no real end for the last 25 years or 20 years, 22. Iran is not pursuing nuclear weapons. Iran has had since 2005, since the end of 05 06, they've had a latent nuclear deterrent. In other words, they've proven that they know how to enrich uranium. And essentially the idea is don't make me go ahead and follow through and make a nuke by attacking me and then so our deal was if you don't make one, then we won't attack you. And that was essentially the standoff. And it was a perfectly reasonable basis for a deal. You know, hawks call it a loophole, but it's true that in the non proliferation treaty they have the unalienable right to enrich uranium for peaceful purposes. And they've forsworn breaking out and developing a nuclear weapon. Now they could withdraw from the treaty or they could obviously break the treaty and secretly make a nuke, but they have not done that in all of these years. They used to lie all day long back, especially in the W. Bush years, that there was a secret parallel nuclear program summer that was making bombs, that was completely disproven. The only nuclear program they have is the same one we know about. It's the same one that Obama got us in the 2015 deal. And I hate sticking up for Obama in any way. It's not about that. And I know people just despise him and therefore anything he ever did or said or what. But the thing is, Netanyahu was threatening war then and Obama decided that the best way to take war off the table would be to get really the Entire JCPOA of 2015. All it ultimately did, Tom, was add additional protocols and additional agreements to the safeguards agreement that they already had, which was a big deal in that it rolled back their program and it expanded inspections. And they made it clear that what they did, they have this thing called a breakout capability. It's a term, the breakout capability is how long it would take a country to have enough bizzol material for one nuclear bomb. And that doesn't include the time that it would take to have the experts machine all the parts just right and get all the explosives just right and get everything set to make a nuke, especially a deliverable nuclear weapon. That's a whole other set of questions. But the breakout time, they've defined it all the way down to just how long it would take to have enough weapons grade uranium to have one bomb. And under the 2015 deal they had reduced that time or started increase that time to one year. And under the deal, Iran would not be allowed to keep any enriched uranium. They would ship it all out to France and then France would turn it into fuel rods and then ship it back for use in their reactors. And then any waste would be taken by the Russians and they didn't ever have the facility to reprocess plutonium waste in order to make weapons fuel out of it anyway. And then The Russians would come and take that so that they never had a plutonium route to the bomb. And even a potential plutonium route to the bomb is completely foreclosed by the deal. And then their uranium route to the bomb was at least forestalled for, at the absolute minimum, one year. It was a perfectly reasonable deal. And that they again foreswore ever making nuclear weapons at all in the deal. And Donald Trump tore that agreement up in 2015 at Netanyahu's behest. So in protest of that, it's actually within the deal, Tom, that Iran is allowed to stop abiding by a bunch of the restrictions in it if America stops abiding by our side of it. In other words, they can violate some of the terms of the treaty under some of the terms of the treaty. Right. And it's not them violating the treaty to stop abiding by some of its restrictions, because it's made that way to try to get us back into it if we ever had a president who would leave. And so what happened was they started enriching greater quantities, up to 60% uranium, which is all simply a bargaining chip. They have no use for 60% enriched uranium. That was all meant essentially to negotiate a way to try to get America back into the deal, which they're still in with the rest of the Security Council. And so then Donald Trump loses and Joe Biden comes in. And remember the whole theory that Donald Trump was some completely rogue agent who had no business being the President of the United States, anything he did was completely crazy and wrong. Well, you might have thought that Joe Biden would have got right back in Barack Obama's deal, but he didn't do that. He kept Donald Trump's maximum pressure sanctions campaign all through his presidency, did absolutely nothing whatsoever to resolve this issue for four years straight, and then got us in a situation where now Netanyahu's man, Donald Trump, is back. Not that. Not that Biden wasn't. But Netanyahu's even closer best friend, Donald Trump, is in there and willing to let him go this far. Even though in the official threat assessment of February by the Director of National Intelligence, Tulsi Gabbard, and apparently according to a brand new story out today. Oh, and by the way, no, no, no, we already know this on the record. Her testimony before Congress in March. But then also apparently there was a brand new report out. I know it's cnn, but they claim that there was an intelligence assessment that came in just last week that told Trump again that Iran is one, not Pursuing nuclear weapons. They've not made the political decision to begin to attempt to make a bomb and that if they did, it would take them three years to have a deliverable nuclear weapon. And this is something that it gets down in the details, but I think it's worth mentioning or explaining, people can understand it. The bomb they dropped on Hiroshima was a simple gun type nuke. They didn't even test it. The Trinity test was a test of the Nagasaki plutonium implosion bomb. The gun type nuke they didn't even test is basically a giant shotgun inside a bomb that shoots one uranium pit into another and causes a super critical mass and fission reaction. That's what they nuke Hiroshima with. But it's virtually impossible. It's not completely impossible, but it's almost unheard of that a country would make a implosion bomb with uranium. You really need plutonium for that. For various reasons that I don't really understand. But the point being that you can't make a deliverable miniaturized nuclear weapon unless it's an implosion bomb. The Nagasaki bomb, scaled down in size, but maybe up in power. But. And so Iran has no capability to do that whatsoever, to have a route to the plutonium bomb. So in other words, even if they got a simple gun type nuke, how the hell are they going to deliver it to Israel on the back of a flatbed truck? Right? They're going to put it in an airliner, a DC10 or something left over from the 70s, and just fly it over there. They have no ability to deliver it whatsoever, even if they had one. And so then, and you'll notice this happened to me in an interview the other day I did with this right winger on News Nation. And, and you'll hear it in everything that Donald Trump and Benjamin Netanyahu say about this now. Iran can't have a nuke. They can't have a nuke. Just implying and begging the question ridiculously, that they were making one and that they were about to have one and that they would have had one if we hadn't done this. Instead, they're just lying. I mean, Donald Trump is conflating the Ayatollah's unwillingness to completely abandon enrichment, to let America take every last one of his centrifuges out of the country and is conflating that with them having a bomb. This is what George W. Bush called shorthanding it. It's a lie. It's a damned lie. And Donald Trump knows it's a lie. And his Own intelligence agencies told him last week they are not making news. And then worse, this is as we're recording this Tuesday morning. They were supposed to meet two days ago on Sunday and apparently here are our choices. We don't know for sure. Our choices are either one. Donald Trump, in the most dastardly, treacherous, just completely, you know, most gratuitous act of anti diplomacy and with consequences for decades to come for sure was lying and pretending that he was still negotiating with the Iranians. All the while he was setting them up for the Israelis to go ahead and get them in decapitation strikes and, and reassuring them that they didn't need to go to alternative locations and whatever to protect themselves. Don't worry, the attack's not coming. We're still negotiating with Donald Trump. And then sneak attacked them in a Tojo style fashion. Or the other alternative is that Donald Trump was negotiating. This is what Tucker Carlson says. He believes he was told that Trump really was negotiating in good faith and he really had told Netanyahu to wait. And then Netanyahu went ahead and did this anyway and is now dragging Donald Trump by the hair into the thing. And then Donald Trump is handling that by saying, oh yeah, I meant to do that. This was my plan all along. So you take your choice. I think the first is the most likely that they're telling the truth now when they say that they had agreed to do this and that they were lying and pretending to negotiate. If it's the other way, then fine. Either way is a total disaster. And by the way, so now let me talk about the war for a minute. The Israelis, better than I realized. Boy, was I busy writing my book last October getting the final touches on that thing. I knew that Israel had done this giant air campaign. Well, they had been really successful against Iran's Russian S300 anti aircraft surface to air missiles and had just destroyed most of them. And then in their initial wave of the attack here, they took out virtually everything that's left. I saw footage this morning, Tom, assuming it was legit, that was formations of Israeli fighter bombers flying low over Tehran in like V formations, like birds. And it was like, I'm just estimating, I didn't count carefully or anything, but it was like 5V formations of fighter bombers flying at I don't know, 5,000ft, maybe 10,000ft or something over Tehran and with absolute air dominance over the country now. And they've hit their various nuclear sites. I don't know the degree to which they've been able to destroy Fordo or Natanz or Istrafan, and all the different targets that they've hit and how far all that goes, I'm not sure. Like, what all the latest and best battle assessments are of the damage done. They have taken out major leadership of the Quds Force, they took out media, and they start taking out economic targets, including oil refineries and all this. And Netanyahu is openly saying that he would very much like to see a regime change here. There's a news story that says he wanted to kill the Ayatollah and that Trump stopped him from killing the Ayatollah. I have no idea if that's true or not, but they're even, like, tweeting out pictures of Israelis palling around with the monarchists, the son of the Shah Reza Pahlavi or his grandson or whatever, like, gloating that that's essentially their intention here is to restore the Pahlavi monarchy to Persia, of all things. And then, last thing before I finally shut up is that I know people who know people. And so, whatever, it's just hearsay, and I hope it's wrong. It's not like I'm trumpeting like, oh, here I'm making a big claim about predicting the future or whatever like that. I'm. I certainly have these sources that are telling me this that I believe have very good reason to know whether this is true or not. And I sincerely hope that they're wrong, that Trump is planning on getting into the war himself and launching a major air campaign with, you know, the heavy earth penetrator bunker buster bombs to take out the deeply buried facilities at Fordo and Natanz. And who knows what he ordered last night, the evacuation of the capital city. He said, I gave you your chance. You didn't take the chance. He said, everyone needs to leave Tehran, which is a threat. Which, you know, there are critical nuclear infrastructure. It's not in the city. I mean, there is obviously military infrastructure inside the city. So he's implying there. What, he's going to just send in B52s and carpet bomb the place entirely? Or, I mean, he wouldn't use a nuke. I don't think he's that crazy, but. Or it could be not. It could be that, in fact, he's really just referring to the fact that he's given this green light to the Israelis to continue to bomb targets, government targets, inside Tehran, and he's just telling civilians, get out of the way, we're bombing your city without necessarily saying we're going to bomb the whole thing to rubble.
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Yeah, true. But you know, when it's 3 o' clock in the morning and a civilian city of 10 million people gets told, oh, by the way, everybody needs to leave because the psychotic guy in charge of a foreign government might decide to just go nuts. And by the way, I don't even know which psychotic guy. I mean, at this point, right, Scott, you know, that's savagery. I mean, that's just. That's savagery. You can't. If the tables were turned and they said, look, everybody's got to get out of New York, we would say, what? This is insane.
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A
We nuke him first.
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A
In 2007, the CIA and the National Intelligence Council came out and said, iran's not making nukes. They've abandoned even the research into it. And then Bush didn't bomb them. And he wrote in his memoir, I wanted to bomb them. And I told his Royal Highness, His Majesty, King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia, jeez. Your Highness, your Royal Worshipfulness, I love you so much, and I would have loved to bomb Iran for you, but it was unfortunately impossible for me to do that. After the CIA came out and said they weren't making nuclear weapons. How was I supposed to bomb them when my own intelligence agency said they weren't making nukes? They. That was George W. Bush, Tom. And Donald Trump's like, yeah, whatever. He just don't even care at all. It's a shrug to him.
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B
Well, I had somebody, I don't want to say the name, but I had somebody saying in my social media feed, well, why does everybody in the U. All libertarians. Why are you all placing so much confidence. Now, let me give you my initial response to this. First, why are you placing so much confidence in American intelligence sources? You know, they're not infallible, and, you know, maybe they're wrong about the Iranian nuclear program. And part of my answer is, but they have a vested interest in wanting to tell the President what he obviously wants to hear. So when they don't tell him that in 2007 and today, it carries extra weight. You know, if they had said, yep, they absolutely do have that, I'd be skeptical, because I know that's what the White House wants. The White House did not want this kind of intelligence assessment. They. But that's the one they gave them, and that's why it has more credibility. And then secondly, we add that Netanyahu has been calling for wild regime change wars for years and years, not one of whose saccharine promises ever really came to pass. So I think we're entitled to some skepticism there.
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Yeah, that's absolutely right. And, you know, they did miss Iraq's secret nuclear weapons program in the 1980s. You know, everybody always gives Israel credit for bombing the osirak reactor in 1981, but Ronald Reagan was right about that. It was a huge mistake. It was actually not even operational yet, but it was declared and safeguarded by the iaea. And by bombing it, all the Israelis did was drive it underground. And they didn't know about it either. It was only in the aftermath of Iraq War one, when they occupied the southern part of Iraq, that they found the program. And it was not that advanced. He was still years away from a nuke, but it was going on under the CIA's nose. And that was later invoked by Dick Cheney when they wouldn't quite lie well enough to get us all the way into war. And, I mean, they did torture lies out of people and everything. They're guilty as hell. And their NIE of 2002 was terrible. But of course, they had to go to the Pentagon and the neoconservatives and the Israelis and Ahmed Chalabi to come up with more lies to get us into that war, because it wasn't enough at the time. But they essentially said, yeah, well, the CIA made this mistake before. And, and so if the CIA says they can't find a nuclear weapons program in Iraq now, well, that's probably the same as them having one, because the CIA didn't know about it before. But in the case of Iran, again, this has been the claim for 25 years straight. And we know from really great reporting from the likes of Seymour Hersh and many others that the CIA and the military have had extensive operations inside Iran for years, including radiation detectors everywhere and, and weight sensors for the roads and all kinds of things. There's really great stuff, especially by Hirsch, about the Defense Department's top secret, JSOC's top secret spying inside Iran and attempts to uncover any covert nuclear activity. And there's just nothing to it. We know what they've got. It's been open and declared this whole time. The IAEA has it safeguarded. There's cameras and locks and seals on everything. And, and the only discrepancies are like, oh, we found, you know, two radioactive atoms of some isotope somewhere. Explain it. And then they always explain it away. It always either came with the equipment that they got from Pakistan in the first place or from some ancient research project that had nothing to do with weapons or whatever. And so, you know, whenever they talk about, oh, the IAEA says they're in violation. Yeah, you gotta zoom in. It's always some tiny little technical violation that's no real indication of. Of weaponization whatsoever. So in other words, Tom, there's no reason at all. There is no reason. Even if you accepted the premise that Israel has a right to start wars to prevent their enemies from obtaining nuclear weapons, there's no reason the world has had to start right now. There's nothing different about right now than there was six months ago or six years ago. Well, they have more uranium that they could enrich to a higher weapons grade, but still, there's not a significant change in Iran's posture Again, apparently just last week, the intelligence agencies reaffirmed that to Trump, that nothing has changed in Iran. The only question was whether they were willing to negotiate away their ability to enrich uranium. And that was obviously the Ayatollah's red line, that they'll give away a lot, but they're not going to give away the very, very last basis of their latent deterrent. But so now that brings up the question of what happens now. Because their latent deterrent was always, if you attack us, then we'll make a nuke. So now does that mean we got to keep going all the way to regime change? Because if we just stop the air campaign now at some point and the Ayatollah and his regime survive, well, they're going to take whatever nuclear scientists they can get and they're going to try to enrich up to weapons grade now. They're going to try to make a bomb now, or at least that's obviously the potential that the fatwa would be canceled and that now they're going to make nuclear weapons. And of course, there's only one solution to that. And that means, you know, either just completely to, you know, maintain air dominance over their country and just routinely bomb them, you know, from now on, like the 1990s over Iraq, or it means what, parachute the 82nd Airborne and Paul Bremer in there to the Viceroy to build a new government for them. We're going to America is going to enforce the reinstatement of the Shah Reza Pahlavis family. Or maybe we'll put the mujahideen, e cult, communist terrorist cult in there. They'll finally let those people have their children back that they kidnapped. I don't know, man. Hearing all the celebratory reactions from the war party. You know, I did this guy show Leland something who's like a. Has been from Fox News on News Nation. And when he introduced me, his introduction was like five minutes of the war is already won. Everything is perfect. The there are no negative consequences to come from this. And whatever they might be, if they ever do come, surely pale in comparison to the threat of an Iranian nuclear weapon that we are all supposed to just take for granted was going to detonate over Kansas City the day after tomorrow if we hadn't done this. And all this kind of stuff reminds me a lot of mission accomplished in March 2003. But this is a much more powerful regime than Saddam Hussein's ever was, than Gaddafis or Assad's ever were. You know, and so it's a big country with a lot of people and how they might respond to this. I mean, as those of us who warned against this war for a long time have said, I don't know so much about it in the United States. There are rumors of this in the United States, but it seems to me like it's. And I don't actually have any facts here, but just makes sense to me that the Quds Force, the IRGC and Hezbollah types would have sleeper cells throughout Europe prepared to commit any number of terrorist attacks in asymmetric warfare against the west for participating in this. And that could include in the United States as well. And you see what just one or two armed guys with rifles or firebombs or whatever can do if they're armed and prepared. Now luckily, unlike in the propaganda, Al Qaeda and Iran are enemies. So we're doing this on behalf of Al Qaeda now. It's, you know, Bin Laden's sons and whoever still alive running what's left of the Bin Laden and Al Qaeda type networks. The potential that we're going to open up Persia for them for, you know, another gigantic Iraq style jihadi civil war is like a dream come true beyond any reason to them. But the good news there, that means that no, the IRGC or the Quds Force, Iran is not about to activate Bin Ladenites against us because that's not the command and control there. They're on the opposite sides of this thing. It's America that supports Al Qaeda, not Iran.
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B
It's hard to keep all this straight or even believe the levels of stupidity, but stupidity is too charitable. It's maliciousness. And I mean the bloodlust that I see on social media about just casually, for example, Congressman Randy Fine, one of the worst human beings on earth from Florida said, thank you Mr. President. Bombs away. Now see, even in an absolutely righteous cause, I can't ever imagine talking that way because I'm a human being and I know that when I say bombs away, inevitably some kid's gonna get killed, some kid's gonna lose his mother and father, some kid's house is gonna be destroyed. I could never cheer that way. I would be extremely regretful that it had come to that.
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A
Well, you know, that would be the
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B
best I could do.
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A
I have to admit to you, Tom, that When I was 15, I was a total psychopath dude. And I loved Iraq War one and I wasn't a Republican, I didn't care. I wasn't a Bush guy, but I'm a boy and man, I like fighter jets and bombers and tanks and explosions and excitement and. And if the President of the United States says that this is okay, this is not criminal behavior, but George Bush is saying this is what we're doing for the good of the red, white and blue and all that, it's the ultimate permission slip. It's the gigantic exception in thou shalt not kill. The mandate of the creator of the universe. You can too, if you wear green or brown and George Bush tells you to do it. And so my bloodlust as a 15 year old was totally unleashed. And I clearly, I honestly, I remember it very well. I didn't give a damn about the Iraqi people at all. The human beings of Baghdad, I'd never seen one. Not, I didn't care what happened to them. But Tom, I was a 15 year old. Not only just a stupid boy, but I was a particularly horrible 15 year old, right? And so that's what Randy Fine is. Randy Fine is the equivalent of me before I understood what it was like to have empathy with another human being. Or maybe like in between times when I understood what empathy was. You know what I mean? Like, what can I say, dude, that's the worst kind of people in the world are 15 year old boys. They don't know anything. You don't want to go along with what they want, you know?
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B
Do you hear Netanyahu's trying to push the. Well Iran twice tried to kill Trump. Like he'll do whatever he thinks will get Trump on board. What is the evidence for this? He just made this up.
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A
Well, I'll tell you what, so let's hear the national intelligence assessment on that. Obviously, if Tulsi Gabbard had told Trump that that was true, if the FBI, if Cash Patel had told Donald Trump that that was true, Trump would have bombed Tehran months ago as soon as he came into office. That's an obvious ridiculous hoax. I mean, I think it looks very likely that it was the nationalist right in Ukraine that put Ruth up to the second attack down there in Florida. I don't know what the hell is behind the kid here in Pennsylvania, in the Northeast, but clearly Ron had nothing to do with that. And now I want to recommend to you, Tom, in fact, you should interview him about this, okay? You'll love the articles and you'll love the guy. I think you may already know the guy, Ken Silva, he's a wonderful journalist, he's from Headline USA and he's down with us at the Institute as well. And he is just such a great investigative reporter and he is actually writing a book for us we're going to publish at the Institute about the assassination attempts against Trump. And he goes into everything we actually know, regardless of what all stuff is floating around, what we really, really can pin down about both attempts. But he also, Tom, has written multiple stories about these claims that Iran had hired anyone to hurt Donald Trump. And these are actually Netanyahu, I think, was trying to say that the two attempts we know about were Iran. But the thing is there were rumors, there were two other rumors of two other fake attempts against Trump that were blamed on Iran. And I wish I was really like master of the details. I think it was a Pakistani who was essentially entrapped by an FBI informant into claiming that Iran was having him target Trump or something like that. There's, and there's two of them like that. And Ken Silva has dug deep into both of them. I was just so busy when this happened, I had to put on the back burner and I didn't do a deep study on it. But you can look into these claims and they are both just absolutely false. And Trump obviously knows that because he would have bombed them a long time ago if there was any truth to it at all. And his government, clearly the FBI and the Department of Justice are now under control of his friends. They would not have let him go uninformed of such a truth if it had really been real. And in fact, you know, you might even conclude, Tom, that Cash Patel told him. Oh, don't worry about that, sir. That was really just one of our entrapment things, you know what I mean? Because, like, how would he explain it to him? Hey, Cash, whatever happened to the Iran tried to kill me thing? Nah, that was just our own guys, Mr. President, you know what I mean? Like, he had to have told him where that came from, you know, hey,
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B
gang, I have a friend whose IQ I would estimate is somewhere in the neighborhood of about 627. And he's the kind of guy you want in your corner. I'm talking about the great Matthew Cercy, a tax attorney who helps liberty minded folks just like you keep more of your money and stay out of trouble with the irs. And yes, I said attorney, not cpa, which means that your conversations with him are protected by attorney client privilege. That's a big deal. Try getting that kind of protection from your accountant. Another thing about Matt, first of all, he's one of us. He's been on my cruise, he's been at one of my murder mystery parties, he's listened to the Tom Wood show since episode three. He's a real og. And second, he's rather a bright fellow, as you will instantly see. And if you're running a business or even thinking about one, you need someone like Matthew in your corner. He knows how to legally reduce your tax burden, structure your business the right way, and avoid trouble while keeping every dollar you're entitled to. Go to agorist tax advice.com woods that's a G O R I S T tax advice.com SL woods and grab your free Agorist Tax Toolkit. It's full of powerful tools and templates you can use to get your business in order, track your expenses, and reduce how much the IRS takes from you without crossing any lines. Again, that's agorist tax advice.com woods take the first step to keeping what's yours. All right, last thing I want to get your thoughts on before I let you go, because I, I know you're at portfest and a million people want to talk to you is what's going on with some of these right wing influencers. So Tucker Carlson did an interview that he released just the other night with Steve Bannon. Now, Steve Bannon is full of problems, you know, like none of these people are, you know, I can trust on everything. But doggone it, on the eve of all this madness, the fact that the two of them gave an interview saying that this is all crazy and inexcusable is pretty darn good.
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A
I have that. I know Tucker is absolutely fantastic on this. I'm really glad to hear that Bannon is, too.
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B
Yeah, I mean, that was a very pleasant surprise. So, of course Trump has then hit back at Tucker, you know, longtime supporter hit back at him. And then we've got Marjorie Taylor Greene saying, look at my understanding of America first. Ain't this. And Tucker Carlson has been a hero. What they're trying to say, Scott, is that Tucker has always just been a quote grifter who just goes with the flow. And. But the thing is, come on, what he's doing right now. No, hang on a sec, Scott. What he's doing right now is the opposite of going with the flow.
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A
Do you really?
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B
He stands to lose a huge amount of influence and possibly a chunk of his following. He could have just talked about other issues and not said anything about this, you know, so he is showing more courage than any of them have ever had.
- [32:47]
A
Absolutely agree. And look, there's just no question for anyone who knows anything about this guy. I mean, if you're as old as us, anyway, he was horrible on Iraq War Two and then he went there in 04 and he saw how horrible it was. And he, you know, I don't know exactly when he began to really speak publicly about it, but over especially the last few years, he has been fantastic on foreign policy, on opposing all of America's foreign policy. Although, you know what, even like on the Israel stuff, this is to his credit in a sense, if you're coming at this from the right, that like one year ago he interviewed Glenn Greenwald about Israeli censorship of Americans for like three hours. And in three hours they didn't talk about what Israel was censoring Americans for talking about, which was their genocide of the poor people of Palestine. Because Tucker, clearly, I don't know exactly what they had discussed, but it seemed like he was treading very carefully when it came to criticizing Israel. He says he's been there many times. He's been friends with them. He used to write for the Weekly Standard. He comes from this crew of people there. A lot of them are his old friends. He has no particular need to be or reason of any kind, no interest to be sympathetic necessarily with the Palestinian side of this thing or with Iran's side of any of this. He's just really being sincere and consistent on his approach to America First. America first means enough of this. And you know what, Tom, like, I'm sure that you've heard a lot of this stuff with all your anti war stuff too, as you have guys who've been to the wars tell you thank you so much and how important it is to them that you say what you say about it. Well, imagine, you know, I get a lot of that. I got some of that 10 minutes ago. Imagine what Tucker Carlson is hearing from the anti war veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan. Thank you for your service in trying to prevent the next one. I swear to you, I just heard an Iraq War two veteran talk like this to me six minutes before we went on here, okay? And like imagine Tucker Carlson stabbing them in the back. The number of guys who've said that to him this whole time, he's going to now turn on them and go back to being a hawk. There's nothing but pure sincerity here on his part. Anyone who, they want to disagree with him, fine. They want to call him a hacker, a grifter or whatever, get out of here. That's completely ridiculous. Anyone who knows anything about the guy now knows how sincere he is about this stuff and that he's right. This is completely crazy to do. You know, Dave pointed out to me, and this is something that I mentioned this about Libya, that when Obama lied to send to Libya, hardly anyone even noticed or cared. He barely even tried. Compared to like the propaganda campaigns against Milosevic or Saddam Hussein or the way that they lied and pretended that the Taliban had attacked us on September 11th instead of Al Qaeda. I mean, like, compared to Serbia or Libya, they barely even lied us into this one. Right. They just launched the war and then Trump just kind of shorthands and like, well, we got to prevent them from getting a nuke. I mean, man, you think about how hard they tried for a year and a half to lie us into Iraq War two, and now they just don't even need to bother at all. They just let us know. And then shame on the people who are the Trump supporters who would rather go along with their leader than stick with what's right here. If George W. Bush told a hoot Olmert, forget about it back in 2007, there ain't no reason in the world we got to do this now. Nothing has changed since then other than Netanyahu knows he can get away with it because he's got Trump wrapped around his little finger. Or the other way around. I always forget how that expression goes. Yeah, no Scott Hammer wrapped around his little finger.
- [36:22]
B
The right one. That's the right one. All right, very quickly, I noted on Twitter the other day, Bill Kristol, who's, you know, who's like the classic never Trumper, he has second guessed every single thing Trump has done. I mean, literally, Scott, I'm not kidding you.
- [36:35]
A
I know where this is going.
- [36:36]
B
Every single thing. Trump orders a civilian city of 10 million people to be evacuated. Not one word, not even mentioned.
- [36:45]
A
Oh, no. Congratulations, though. Oh, I thought you were going to say Bill Crystal said, finally, Donald Trump is acting like a real president.
- [36:52]
B
No, it's that he can't bring himself to say it, but he's dying to. He's dying to congratulate him, but he can't.
- [36:58]
A
He can't.
- [36:58]
B
He can't. Now, Ari Fleischer, you know, horrible neocon is one of the ones who's accusing Tucker of being a grifter. And then Matt Gates jumped in and said, well, I'm glad we have Bush administration hangers on here to instruct us on how regime change, wars wind up. I mean, this is at least something, you know, that. At least there's. But. And, and people forget.
- [37:22]
A
People forget Ari Fleischer. He was a very capable press secretary and he lied us into war in Iraq as bad as any or all of them combined. Right. He was up there every single day beating that drum. He was as bad or at least equal to Bush, the man who pulled the trigger himself. And he'll be damned forever if there's such a thing. No question.
- [37:48]
B
One thing that also makes me happy is Alex Jones is rock solid on this, saying that Trump is.
- [37:55]
A
I don't care what he says about anything.
- [37:56]
B
No, no, hold on a minute, Scott. It doesn't matter if you like Alex Jones. It matters that Alex Jones's opinion matters to a huge number of people. And he's saying this is a catastrophic decision by Trump that cannot be defended. So the point is, the movement is definitely being divided by this. Now, the neocons are trying to downplay that saying, oh, it's just a bunch of you influencers on Twitter. But most people love all this rah rah stuff. I don't know if that's true or not, Scott, but I do know that there is at least something, there's at least some semblance of a group of people trying to say no.
- [38:29]
A
Right? Yeah. No, it's huge. And I saw Charlie Kirk is against it. You know, Charlie Kirk is financed by Zionists. His group has always been very pro Israel. And what he said was he goes, listen, you guys know me. This is a Politico article. Did I say that? He goes, listen, you guys know me, I'm very, very pro Israel, etc. Etc. Etc. But I gotta tell you, the comments section does not agree. This is really bad. It's bad for Israel to do this. You are turning the entire young American Christian right against you. All of them. And which, you know, I hope that that's true. And I hope people who are especially like Baptists and Methodists from the south, who really buy into this evangelical stuff about the Second Coming and all this, you remember what they promised you last time was that if you support Iraq War two, you'll get raptured up to heaven and it'll be great and it'll be, you know, we'll force Jesus to come back. Get it? Middle East. So it's just like the Bible and they were lying to you and they were playing you for suckers and you got left behind with the rest of us. And now here we are and they're trying to pull the same stuff again. That this has anything to do with serving the God that created the universe, Please. Any grown man who's going to let another grown man put those non thoughts, those absolutely preposterous and blasphemous beliefs in your head, you're absolute disgrace. Less than half a man would let his minister fill his head with such lies that the author of the Sermon on the Mount wants you to help kill these people. For the secular commie fascist nation state of Israel. That ain't got a damn thing to do with the Bible that you believe in. You've got to be kidding me. No one. And you know what, Like, I shouldn't even say it in that, like, challenging of a way. I know you guys are with me. I know that you do remember what John Hagee promised you. I know you do remember what all the Sunday morning TV preachers said about why we have to support these wars and none of their magical promises came through at all. So you know we're right. All this is is just leaders of governments committing sins. Simple as that. You want to climb on board them? That bandwagon. Take your risks.
- [40:40]
B
Scott, what are you up to at Pork Fest? You have speaking things scheduled?
- [40:44]
A
Yeah, well, I got all kinds of people are coming out. Al Jazeera is coming out to interview me, and Al Arabia, which is Saudi state tv, is going to interview me today. So I'm going to have to figure out very carefully what I want to say to them then. Doing Dave Smith show. I'm doing a speech. I'm doing some comedy tomorrow night. I'll be telling my Dave Smith jokes and a few others. And then, yeah, I'm just hanging out. We're going to shoot some guns and smoke some pot and have a good time.
- [41:09]
B
All right. Well, Scott, thanks. I mean, look, I know these are not ideal conditions and, you know, you have a million things to do, but I really appreciate you making the time for us today. Thank you.
- [41:19]
A
Absolutely. Thank you, Tom.
- [41:21]
B
Libertarianinstitute.org Go support Scott Horton. He's doing all this for you and me. Libertarianinstitute.org thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen. Make yourself and those you love less vulnerable to the regime, both mentally and physically.
- [41:36]
A
Get more forbidden information@tomsfreebooks.com and be sure to subscribe to the show wherever you listen. See you next time.
- [41:53]
B
Like the sound of the Tom Wood Show, My audio production is provided by Podsworth Media. Check them out@podsworth.com.