Ep. 2739 Truth is Treason in the Empire of Lies

Summary

---

The Tom Woods Show – Episode 2739

"Truth is Treason in the Empire of Lies"
February 28, 2026
Guest: Charles Goyette
Host: Tom Woods

---

Episode Overview

In this episode, Tom Woods welcomes legendary broadcaster and New York Times bestselling author Charles Goyette to discuss Goyette's new book, Empire of Fragments from the Memory Hole: The Shameful Story of the Deep State's Warlords, War Lies, and Failed Foreign Interventions. Together, they delve into the manipulative machinery of the deep state, discuss the rewriting of history, and share first-hand experiences of being on the outside of mainstream narratives—especially during times of war. The conversation is a critical exploration of state power, media complicity, and the persistent struggle to tell uncomfortable truths.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Charles Goyette's Radio Experience During the Iraq War

• Early Stand Against War:
  • Goyette recounts working at Clear Channel, a major radio conglomerate with deep Bush connections, and his opposition to the Iraq war. His refusal to participate in "Support the Troops" rallies—thinly veiled pro-war, pro-Bush events—isolated him at the station.
  • Cultural Fear and Censorship: He describes a chilling environment where colleagues became afraid to be seen with him, and even high-level consultants admitted agreement privately but insisted on secrecy (see Notable Quotes).
• Consequences of Speaking Out:
  • Despite high ratings, management tried to silence him, eventually marginalizing him into an unfavorable time slot until his contract expired.
  • Goyette reflects on the lasting lessons from this period and mentions that some former critics later admitted he was right after subsequent events unfolded.

Notable Quote:

"They create this atmosphere of fear, you know, that my colleagues were afraid of being tainted or marginalized by association with me..."
— Charles Goyette (03:27)

Timestamp:

• [02:06]–[05:57] Charles’s retelling of his ostracization over Iraq War opposition.

---

2. Changing Political Atmosphere on War and Intervention

• Transformation in Right-Wing Attitudes:
  • Woods points out that, unlike in 2003, it's now respectable to oppose foreign interventions from the right.
  • Goyette questions how many Trump supporters, originally anti-regime change, quickly reversed when provoked by new war drums.
• Ron Paul’s Pivotal Role:
  • Before Ron Paul’s presidential runs, there was little permission for conservatives to be openly anti-war. Dr. Paul’s visibility changed that, bringing non-interventionist arguments into mainstream discourse.

Timestamp:

• [06:09]–[08:38] Discussion on the shift in antiwar sentiment and Ron Paul’s role.

---

3. From Establishment Republican to Skeptic

• Goyette’s Evolution:
  • Initially a "movement conservative," Goyette became increasingly disillusioned by repeated government lies about foreign policy—from Vietnam to Kosovo to Iraq.
  • He stresses that tribal loyalty to party over truth perpetuates deception on all sides, referencing scriptural and literary wisdom about self-examination and intellectual honesty.
• Insider Republican Credentials:
  • Goyette’s deep roots in conservative politics (e.g., Goldwater Institute) highlight the magnitude of his break with party orthodoxy on matters of war.

Timestamp:

• [08:38]–[10:38] Goyette’s background and awakening.

---

4. Manufacturing Consent and the Memory Hole

• Orwellian Rewriting of History:
  • The "memory hole" concept from Orwell's 1984 frames the discussion. Goyette connects it to U.S. foreign policy, recollecting specific lies that paved the way for war.
• Fabrication of Evidence — Iraq Aluminum Tubes Case:
  • Goyette details how Cheney's office planted the "aluminum tubes" story in the New York Times, only to cite the article as independent proof on talk shows, demonstrating the media-government echo chamber.
• First Gulf War—Phantom Army:
  • An independent journalist debunked government claims of Iraqi troops massed on the Saudi border, exposing another manufactured pretext for war.

Notable Quote:

"They took their package story and they fed it to the lapdog press... And then they fed it back to the Vice President... who then went on TV and said, 'Don't take it from me, here it is on the front page of the New York Times.'"
— Charles Goyette (19:43)

Timestamp:

• [16:15]–[24:40] On propaganda, historical amnesia, and specific wartime deceptions.

---

5. Understanding the Deep State

• Broad Definition:
  • The deep state is not just top intelligence officials but an entire network of bureaucrats across government acting to sustain the American military empire.
  • Example: Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman believed the President should obey the "consensus foreign policy of the interagency," a doctrine totally absent from the Constitution.
• Historical Deep State Actions:
  • Revelations about Joint Chiefs spying on Nixon’s White House—stealing thousands of classified documents to pursue their own policy preferences.

Notable Quote:

"The deep state works all the way up and down the bureaucracy... The global American military empire, the empire of lies is the organizing principle of the deep state. The deep state is its executive arm."
— Charles Goyette (24:40)

Timestamp:

• [24:40]–[28:30] On the deep state’s scope and historical examples.

---

6. Combat Envy and the Military-Industrial-Media Network

• Media’s Role in Warmongering:
  • Goyette dissects the phenomenon of "combat envy"—media figures with no experience in war who are the most vocally hawkish.
  • Cases cited include:
    • Brian Williams: Fabricated stories about his wartime exploits, yet suffered minimal professional penalty due to his unwavering military PR stance.
    • Wayne Simmons (Fox): A conman who masqueraded as a CIA expert and advocated war, unchecked for years.
    • Bill O’Reilly: Lied about war zone experiences, yet faced no consequences from Fox due to his parroting of pro-military narratives.

Notable Quotes:

"One of the characteristics that seems to prevail is they are never at risk themselves in the combat that they so much envy."
— Charles Goyette (32:40)

"Selling the war, which is good for ratings, selling the Fox News alert, selling the fear, fearmongering, warmongering is more important to them..."
— Charles Goyette (38:00)

Timestamp:

• [32:19]–[41:29] On media complicity, fabricated credentials, and the incentives of war coverage.

---

7. Challenges and Prospects for Truth-Telling

• The Importance of Independent Voices:
  • Ron Paul’s interventions on national TV (e.g., debunking 9/11 blowback with Rudy Giuliani) changed public discourse.
  • Tom Woods recounts how mainstream figures (like Sean Hannity) are often ignorant of well-documented counterarguments, underscoring the value of independent media and critical scholarship.

Notable Quote:

"Until [Dr. Paul] came along and forced the issue... it would never be, well, what are we doing this for? Maybe we should consider for once in our lives not doing something..."
— Tom Woods (38:08)

Timestamp:

• [38:08]–[42:07] On the critical role of iconoclasts in public debate.

---

8. Technological Change—Then and Now

• Media Monopolies vs. Decentralized Information:
  • Goyette contrasts the tightly controlled news ecosystem of the 1960s and 70s with today’s fragmented, smartphone-enabled landscape.
  • While skepticism is higher, the syndrome of resigned distrust persists (“We know we’re being lied to, but what are you going to do?”), a trajectory he warns is dangerous for the republic.

Timestamp:

• [42:07]–[44:19] On changing access to information and public attitudes toward official narratives.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Atmosphere of Fear in Establishment Media:
  • "Even the most powerful people in the industry... called me at home and said, 'I agree with everything you're saying...don't tell anybody.'" — Charles Goyette ([03:27])
• On Manufactured Press Cycles:
  • "They fed it to the lapdog press... then cited that press as their own proof." — Charles Goyette ([19:43])
• On the Deep State:
  • "The empire of lies is the organizing principle of the deep state. The deep state is its executive arm." — Charles Goyette ([24:40])
• On Media “Combat Envy”:
  • "They are never at risk themselves in the combat that they so much envy." — Charles Goyette ([32:40])
• On Shifting Public Awareness:
  • "...They roll their eyes a little bit, but they're like captives who have made their peace with the state." — Charles Goyette ([43:00])
• Tribute to Tom Woods:
  • "You have opened so many eyes and you're a great instructor and explainer... You have no idea the impact you have made..." — Charles Goyette ([45:03])

---

Important Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment Description | |-----------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 02:06 | Goyette's experience at Clear Channel during Iraq War | | 05:57 | Woods’ perspective on shifting anti-war sentiment | | 08:38 | Goyette’s evolution from mainstream Republican to dissident voice | | 16:15 | Orwell’s 'memory hole' and the manufacturing of war propaganda | | 19:43 | Example of "aluminum tubes" media manipulation pre-Iraq war | | 24:40 | Deep state’s definition and its historical operations | | 32:19 | "Combat envy" and the fake credentials of hawkish media personalities | | 38:08 | Impact of Ron Paul & the challenge to the war consensus in media | | 42:07 | Changing face of media, skepticism, and technology’s role | | 45:03 | Goyette’s praise for Woods’ influence |

---

Tone and Language

The conversation is frank and iconoclastic, with both Woods and Goyette displaying a mix of rueful humor, deep skepticism, and a sense of mission toward exposing manipulation and restoring critical thinking. References to Orwell, historical events, and contemporary media personalities keep the discussion vivid and relevant.

---

Recommended Action

• Read Charles Goyette’s Empire of Lies for a thorough documentation of the deep state's historical and contemporary methods for swaying public opinion and sabotaging truth-tellers.
• Visit TomWoods.com/2739 for direct access to the episode, book links, and further resources on liberty-focused dissent.

---

Transcript

[Tom Woods (Show Intro/Outro)]

Get ready to take a flamethrower to the official narrative and learn what the elites don't want you to know. You're listening to the Tom Woods Show.

[Tom Woods (Host)]

Hi, everybody. Tom woods here. It's episode 2739 of the Tom Woods Show. We have the great legendary Charles Goyette with us of radio fame and in particular of this brand new book, Empire of Fragments from the Memory Hole. But in addition to that subtitle, it has a sub subtitle that's really juicy. The shameful story of the deep states, warlords, war, lies and failed foreign interventions. So I am delighted to welcome back my old friend, New York Times bestselling author Charles Goyet. Charles, welcome, Tom.

[Charles Goyette (Guest)]

It's so good to speak to you. And congratulations on the birth of your son, Henry.

[Tom Woods (Host)]

Right, thank you. Thank you. I didn't even know you knew about that. Thank you.

[Charles Goyette (Guest)]

Yeah, I did. And it reminded me. I don't think Plato actually said this, but it's legendary that he said, you know, every man should write a book, plant a tree, father a son. So I know you've done two out of three, and it's easy to plant a tree. But anyway, you know, I'm very happy for you.

[Tom Woods (Host)]

Thank you. Thank you. Maybe I'll do the tree tomorrow. But you're right. Thanks so much. So obviously we want to talk about. I mean, this is nice and what a nice juicy title this is. And this is a book published by the Libertarian Institute, which means it bears the imprimatur of the great Scott Horton himself. So for those folks out there who unfortunately are unfamiliar with Charles Goyet, he has the absolute 100% Scott Horton seal of approval. In fact, I want to start off before we talk about that book, talking about something that I guess I probably brought out of you the last time you were on, but that was probably 57 years ago. So let's refresh everybody's memory. Something happened to you in the radio world, as I recall, at the time of the Iraq war, and it's. I don't know what the word is. Disturbing, Unnerving. I don't know what it is, but can you cast your mind back to those days and recount for us exactly what happened?

[Charles Goyette (Guest)]

I can't, Tom. I haven't thought about it a lot, so I may miss some of the high points or the, I should say the low points of the episode. But I work for Clear Channel, which owned all the big talk stations in America, owned more radio stations than anybody else. Just as a little background, Clear Channel was a Texas corporation, and it was kind of a Bush company in the sense that not only was it domiciled in Texas, but, for example, the vice chairman, Tom Hicks, was the guy that made Bush a millionaire by buying his baseball team. Anyway, as the Iraq war approached, I made myself very unwelcome there by opposing the war. And they would have support the troops rally, which were nothing but disguised support bush rallies and stuff. And I, I declined to participate in those things. And the thing got very, very ugly in a short period of time. But it created some prominence for me. People would call me and wake me up in the morning and say, I just did an afternoon drive show. People would wake me up early in the morning and say, oh, you got to turn on the radio. Howard Stern's talking about you again.

[Tom Woods (Host)]

Favorably.

[Charles Goyette (Guest)]

Just actually, yes, that was back when I think he was posing as a libertarian, if you can remember back that far. But for whatever reason, it created a lot of attention. I wrote an article for the American conservative magazine called how to lose your job and talk radio. But to make a long story short, I was sandwiched in between a bunch of neocon warmongers. And I was the only outlier. And these things deteriorate really fast. I started getting death threats and things like that. But the funny part of it was management's response to it. They had just paid me a ratings bonus for good ratings. I mean, just within weeks earlier, they had paid me a ratings bonus. And then they invited me very kindly to shut up about the war, which of course, no self respecting person is going to do if they value, you know, the opportunity to talk to their fellow Americans on a platform like that. So, you know, I didn't shut up. But the peculiar thing was the way, you know, the personal relationships, people in the hall that have been friends of mine kind of started ducking into the shadows when I'd come by because they didn't want to be tainted by me. You know how that stuff works. And one of the great radio consultants of all time, and, I mean, he made more big, big talk radio careers than you could shake a stick at, he called me at home one night and he was trying to figure out what he was going to do with me. He said, you know, maybe you could soft pedal your position by saying this or that. And he said, but tell you the truth, Charles, I agree with everything you're saying. Okay, fine. And then an hour and a half later, he called me back and said, you know what I told you about agreeing with you? Don't tell anybody yeah. So they create this atmosphere of fear, you know, that my colleagues were afraid of being tainted or marginalized by association with me and even the. Some of the most powerful people in the industry. Anyway, as push came to shove, I had a good, solid contract, so they ended up shoving me into the night slot until my contract expired and try to get me out of the way. And I would be doing my show, and the management people would call my producer on the other side of the glass and say, tell Charles not to talk about the war. My producer would say, you think he's going to listen to me? So anyway, it was kind of an ugly situation, and I'm sort of glad that it happened because I learned a lot from it. And over the years, I can't say that everybody that criticized me or sent me a death threat apologized to me, but an awful lot of people, you know, I would run into in town at the grocery store that knew me or, you know, in a restaurant or just send me an email. You know, I thought you were crazy at the time and opposing Bush's elective war, but I get it now.

[Tom Woods (Host)]

Yeah.

[Charles Goyette (Guest)]

And, you know, Tom, in my view, it was sort of like, you know, somebody had to say, the emperor had no clothes. And it wasn't me. My platform was really, really small. But I think everything changed when Trump in the Republican debates.

[Tom Woods (Host)]

Oh, yeah.

[Charles Goyette (Guest)]

Said, oh, oh, yeah. You know, they lied. I said, the war. And everybody, after six or seven years or whatever, a bit of these lies, you know, kind of like, oh, you know, he's right. The emperor does have no clothes. So that sort of changed the argument at the time.

[Tom Woods (Host)]

Anyway, I want to remind younger people listening to this that if you weren't, let's say, old enough to be politically aware in 2003, you probably won't know that the atmosphere then was very different from how it is now. I mean, there's been a lot of talk about Iran lately, but just as much, there's been talk from people on the right about why you shouldn't invade Iran, and it's very respectable to be opposed to foreign intervention. Now on the right, that was not the case. When Charles took this stand, that was not the case. So it was a very lonely position. I mean, yeah, Pat Buchanan was against it, but, you know, Pat's not part of Clear Channel, so it doesn't do Charles any good. That was a really, really tough thing to do. And meanwhile, this company is no doubt thinking to itself that the reason we have Charles is so that our listening audience gets a reliably Republican point of view.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

That was why we brought him on. We didn't bring him on to give

[Tom Woods (Host)]

us his original thoughts about things we couldn't care less about, that we want what our. We believe our listeners want, which is the Republican Party line. I assume that was the mentality.

[Charles Goyette (Guest)]

I assume it was. I mean, I started working with them when Clinton was president, and they didn't seem to mind what I had to say about him. But they started getting a little queasy when I started complaining about President Bush. But that's the way things work. But you are absolutely right that the atmosphere has changed substantially. And I wonder, for example, how all the MAGA people that voted for Trump on the basis of no regime change wars, no more foolish wars. America for America, American resources for America. You know how they were so many of them, not all, but so many of them were so quick to flip, you know, when their hearts start beating and, you know, their chests swell at the prospect of, you know, another. Another American regime change war, despite the fact that they had supported him on the basis of no more of that nonsense.

[Tom Woods (Host)]

Were you. Now, this is before, I mean, Ron Paul had obviously been a congressman for some time, but it was before the GOP presidential campaigns. And it was, I believe, his involvement in that that. I don't know if it's Scott Horton or Jeff Diest or somebody that I admire puts it like this, that in effect, Dr. Paul gave permission to a

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

huge swath of Americans to be anti

[Tom Woods (Host)]

war, but that hadn't happened yet. So where were you coming from that you weren't a Sean Hannityite and you weren't with Mark Levin? I mean, how did you get to be Charles Goyet, in other words?

[Charles Goyette (Guest)]

Well, I suppose I was kind of a movement conservative, but I was very skeptical about all of this stuff. I didn't understand the Vietnam War at the time. I was too young to really understand what was going on, but I eventually did. And I was doing talk radio during subsequent follies. I mean, for example, I remember during Kosovo war, the United States bombed the Chinese embassy in Belgrade and they said, oh, it was a mistake. You know, we just, we bought the map at Circle K and it was outdated or whatever they said. And it was just, you know, and at some point, you know, anybody with discernment gets tired of being lied to by these people. And the amazing thing about it is people are so loyal to their team rather than to the truth. And so Republicans are the first to jump and conservatives first to jump on Democrats and liberals when they lie to them. But when their own guys lie to them, they just let it go. And I don't think American politics will ever be redeemed really, in any meaningful sense until, you know, this is actually kind of scriptural that, you know, you begin by removing the beam in your own eye so you can remove the splitter in your neighbor's eye. So you clean up your own house. Goethe said, sweep in front of your own porch and the world will be clean. So I always, I began to expect, you know, not to tolerate Republican lies or conservative lies and not to respect Democrat lies or liberal lies. But I had been involved in the national defense argument as a Republican. I'd been my county Republican man of the Year when I was a teenager. I'd helped turn out crowds for Barry Goldwater's appearances. So, I mean, I had been involved when they launched the Goldwater Institute. I had moderated, emceed the Goldwater 15 year anniversary commemoration dinner. It had long ties in that movement and. But, you know, blood is thicker than water, but politics is thinner than everything. And I got pretty well dogpiled after it was all over.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Thanks to HomeServe for sponsoring this episode. Hey, gang. You protect your health, your car, even your phone. But remember, your home is probably your biggest investment. And when things go wrong there, they can go really wrong and really expensively wrong. That's where HomeServe comes in. You may have homeowners insurance, but you're often on your own when it comes to things like plumbing failures, H vac breakdowns, electrical issues, plenty of other things. That's where HomeServe comes in. It's like a subscription for your home. For as little as 499amonth, they've got your back. You don't want to be searching for a contractor in a panic. You'd much rather be on the phone with HomeServ's 247 hotline scheduling a repair. And it couldn't be easier. They have different plans for different home systems. Choose a plan for your needs and budget, and when something on your plan goes wrong, just call their 247 hotline to start the repair process. They've helped homeowners like you for over 20 years with a trusted national network of 2,600 local contractors. I once noticed a strange humming noise coming from my water heater.

[Tom Woods (Host)]

It was getting louder over a few days, and suddenly hot water started coming

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

out in spurts, so barely enough for a quick shower. And I panicked.

[Tom Woods (Host)]

I thought, the whole thing's gonna blow.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

So I talked to a local Plumber after a quick inspection turned out to be a simple sediment buildup in the tank. So a flush out with the garden hose fixed it right up. We've had no issues since. But as a homeowner, you'll have your share of near misses like this. But you don't always miss and you'll be glad you've got Homeserve in your corner. So help protect your home systems and your wallet with HomeServe against covered repairs. Plans start at just 499amonth. Go to HomeServe.com to find the plan that's right for you. That's HomeServe.com not available everywhere. Most plans range between 499 to 1199amonth. Your first year terms apply on covered repairs.

[Tom Woods (Host)]

You know, Barry Goldwater Senior. I just watched a video clip of his.

[Charles Goyette (Guest)]

I saw it, Tom.

[Tom Woods (Host)]

You know the one I mean, I

[Charles Goyette (Guest)]

know exactly what you're talking about.

[Tom Woods (Host)]

It's a clip of him talking to Pat Buchanan. So there's somebody else maybe. It was on CNN, I think back in the 80s and Goldwater is saying that in effect, whenever Israel says jump, the US Government says how high? And he's saying that it's outrageous the way the Israeli government controls our government. I mean, you just, I don't think anybody realized that was Barry Goldwater's opinion. And yet somebody managed to dig that up. So that, that was interesting. The other thing is I got to know, maybe you got to know his son a little bit, Barry Goldwater Jr. Who was a congressman because of course you were out in Arizona for some time and apparently the Goldwater family, I don't know if they still do, but back around 2010 when, you know, I guess I was. So I have a blurb on one of my books from Barry Goldwater Jr. I'd gotten to know him and he liked me so much that he was saying my family controls a chair at Arizona State and it's a really cushy position. It's a three year position. You get a lot of money to hold conferences and stuff. It pays really well. You have a very light teaching load and I'd love to recommend you for it. And I thought I would have a really good shot at getting the Goldwater family position with the endorsement of Barry Goldwater.

[Charles Goyette (Guest)]

Yes.

[Tom Woods (Host)]

But I thought I can't.

[Charles Goyette (Guest)]

That would have been so great.

[Tom Woods (Host)]

It would have been great. But I thought I can't bring all my little girls out there for just three years, give them roots there and then leave again. And I didn't want to settle in Arizona. But anyway, it was very, very flattering. And I liked that. In 2008, he was bold enough during the Republican convention that was nominating John McCain to go over to Dr. Paul's. Dr. Paul didn't like to call it a counter convention, but let's face it, that's what it was. And he went over there and introduced Dr. Paul to the huge cheering crowd at the Target center in Minneapolis. And I thought, that guy has some stones.

[Charles Goyette (Guest)]

Yeah, I'm glad that he endorsed one of your books and he blurbed one of mine, too. And I liked him very much. And he did have some stones. And I think he and Ron went all the way back to their earliest days in Congress. Yeah, as friends, but yeah, he. I wish you'd taken that chair. You know, my. One of my sons went to asu.

[Tom Woods (Host)]

You know, as I'm describing it to you, Charles, it sounds like a dream. You know, I'm trying to think, what possible good reason could I have had to take that?

[Charles Goyette (Guest)]

Yeah, it had been great in there. They had a couple of kind of free market operations within the university, but the university itself, I mean, I. I don't know if I should tell this, but one of my sons got his degree there, and he never said anything about it during four years. But after he got out, after he graduated, it took him about a year to assimilate everything he'd been through. And he said, dad, you don't know how bad. I was propagandized there for four years. Oh, wow. Oh, and this is State University out west. I mean, it's not like an Ivy League or something that you went to, but he said it was just relentless statism, big governmentism, collectivism, wokeism and stuff. And it took him about a year to kind of get his bearings again after this continuous assault on rationality. So you'd have been a plus anyways. That's what I'm saying.

[Tom Woods (Host)]

Well, if they ever invent a time machine, maybe I'll have the parallel path where I'm at asu, but.

[Charles Goyette (Guest)]

Yeah.

[Tom Woods (Host)]

All right, let's get into. Dig into your book a little bit. You know, it's. I was telling you before that this was like in parts, a stroll down memory lane for me. But when you, when you use that expression normally, you're thinking about people you knew in high school, happy memories you have. This is a stroll down, like, you know, horrible, unspeakable memory lane. Terrible.

[Charles Goyette (Guest)]

You know, I gathered so much of this stuff and, and it goes right up to the present. And so, I mean, I could start at the present, but some of the stuff in the past is the stuff everybody knows, that the memory hole comes from George Orwell in 1984, that I hope everybody read in high school. And the memory hole, you know, the Ministry of Love is where they took you to be tortured so you can understand. Everything was like that. The Ministry of Truth is where they went to rewrite history. And when the alliances changed, like Oceania has always been at war with East Asia. And then they had to change sides, you know, then it went to the memory hole, you know, I mean, Winston, the lead character, had to rewrite the history, took the old history and dropped it down into an incinerator called the Memory hole. Well, that's where all this stuff goes. And so I don't want to start with the old stuff, except to say it's got to be recovered from the memory hole. Because if you have no memory of where you've been, you don't know where you're going. And one of my favorite ones. Well, from the Iraq war, since we were talking about the Iraq War, one of my favorite ones is this kind of stuff going on all the time. But this was a classic. So the administration was trying to make the case for war, for a war that the American people really didn't want. And they had a White House Iraq group. It wasn't, you know, nuclear weapons experts, it wasn't military experts. It was all spin meisters and admin got together in the White House and they said, what do we do to, you know, strike fear in the hearts of American people? I know. And they came up with a slogan, the smoking gun, in the form of a mushroom cloud.

[Tom Woods (Host)]

Here we go down memory lane again.

[Charles Goyette (Guest)]

Here we go. Smoking gun.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

You know, Charles, let me interrupt a minute.

[Tom Woods (Host)]

I was a professor, and I was in history, was in, quote, social sciences. So I was, you know, I was in there with the sociologists and everything. But yet, what was interesting was over lunch one day, they were all talking about, Saddam's got the weapons. There's no doubt about it. And I thought, even you people, like, how hopeless is it when even the sociologists are bought into the propaganda?

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

I thought, what.

[Tom Woods (Host)]

What am I, the one token normal person in this department?

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Anyway?

[Tom Woods (Host)]

All right, so.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

So go ahead.

[Tom Woods (Host)]

Go ahead. Sorry.

[Charles Goyette (Guest)]

I spent every bit of a year, three hours a day, every day on the radio.

[Tom Woods (Host)]

Oh, yeah.

[Charles Goyette (Guest)]

Shooting the lies that these people were floating. There were things that were just ridiculous, and you wondered where they were coming from. There was one that went around for a Couple of weeks. And you know, all kind of the chest thumping warmongers were repeating as though it were, you know, gospel about, oh, Saddam Hussein created this network of tunnels underneath Iraq and he's moving the fissile material around back and forth. No wonder we can't find it. So I mean, it was nonsense. You know, they could, if you had a quarter in your back pocket, the satellites could tell whether it was heads or tails. And yet they were supposed to have had this huge industrial effort of creating these tunnels all over Iraq for years on end with, I mean, it was just nonsense. But they kept floating more things like that. One of them was that they finally found the smoking gun in the form of these aluminum tubes. These aluminum tubes, see, were perfect for refinery of uranium. They were key. They were the essential part of Saddam Hussein's mighty nuclear weapons program. Now our own guys in the Department of Energy that were actually in the business of dealing with, you know, refining uranium and aluminum tubes stuff, they said, no, you can't use that. These aluminum tubes aren't even, they're not even related. They don't configure, they wouldn't work. They have nothing to do with that. They have nothing to do with that. Nevertheless, in the deep state offices of Dick Cheney and his sidekick Scooter Libby, they cooked it all up into a nice package about these aluminum tubes. They're the final proof, you know, this is the nail the coffin of Saddams.

[Tom Woods (Host)]

Oh, geez.

[Charles Goyette (Guest)]

Yeah, here's what they did. And they're very good at this. And it goes on to this day. They took their package story and they fed it to the lapdog press, they fed it to the New York Times and Judith Miller at the New York Times wrote the story up and she got it on the front page of the New York Times on a Sunday morning. And it said, oh, here you go. Nailed the evidence. Aluminum tubes, uranium refining, smoking gun, can't wait for the mushroom cloud. So that was part of the story. So they fed it to the lap dog press and then they fed it back to the Vice President and the deep state, and they fed it back to another lap dog press and they fed it to Meet the press. So Cheney shows up that same Sunday morning on Meet the Press and he says, oh, aluminum tubes. They're doing this dastardly refining process, uranium, dangerous yellow cake, whatever. He said, this is the smoky gun. This is what we've been looking for. But he said, oh, don't take it from me though. Here it is on the front page

[Tom Woods (Host)]

of the New York Times today, a story we planted. It's unbelievable.

[Charles Goyette (Guest)]

Oh, it's unbelievable. And on that line, if you'll forgive me, I want to tell one about the first Iraq war that's equally bad. It was a shame, I think, that in the first Iraq war when Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait over domestic disputes. And our own embassy lady, April Glassby at the time said, we United States doesn't take any position on these Arab, Arab disputes, whatever your problem is with slant drilling.

[Tom Woods (Host)]

Yeah, I mean, he, he was accusing them of slant drilling on him. I mean, that was what it was

[Charles Goyette (Guest)]

and it's not our problem. And Saddam took that as the go ahead because after all, he'd been the American guy's man. He's the one that, you know, we fed chemical weapons to, to take on the, the Iranians. So he took that as a go ahead signal. They invaded Kuwait over his dispute about slant drilling. So, well, they're beating the drums here in America for the American people to go over and fight the war at their expense, at the lives of their service members, to go over and fight the war and to restore the emirate, the Kuwaiti Emirate. The Kuwaiti royal family packed up and they flew to Switzerland to disco dancing. So, you know, it shows you that we're the possessions, we're the strong arm, we're the hired security of some of the most corrupt people in the world. So here's the story that I wanted to tell you about it, though. The American people weren't on board and like, well, we've got to come up with a spin. We've got to come up with. Smokey, get them. What are we going to do this time? And this time, the first time, they came up with the idea, oh, this is going to ruin the American economy because Saddam Hussein is ready to roll into Saudi Arabia and take all that Saudi oil that industrial society needs. And we'll be dead, we'll be cooked. They'll throw us back 50 years. It'll be a depression worse than the depression. That was the story. And Margaret Thatcher told Bush, don't go wobbly on us now. We got to go in there and, you know, Iraqis on their border, they're about to take over. So this story came out of the White House. There was a reporter in a little newspaper in Florida and she thought, well, that's curious. And she got her bosses to give her $3200, lot of money for a tiny newspaper at that time. And she hired surveillance satellites. You know, they rent their time out to people, geologists all Kinds of people. So she hired the surveillance satellites and she had them go inspect and take photos of all along the border between Saudi Arabia and stuff. And they, they could see everything. I mean, you see what, you know, on Saudi bases, they could see American fighter planes, they can see everything in the whole region. And then she hired American surveillance, satellite surveillance analysts to review the photos. And guess what? There were supposed to be something like, I believe 200,000 Iraqi soldiers on the border of Saudi ready to roll in.

[Tom Woods (Host)]

There's nobody there, right?

[Charles Goyette (Guest)]

Nothing. Yeah, zero, zip. No supply lines, no tracks, no nothing. And so this young reporter, this, she took it to the White House, she took a Cheney's office and you know this, none of this is true. What do you have to say about that and what do you think they said? They didn't say anything. Stonewaller. So this stuff goes on all the time, everything true slips down the memory hole. And the American people get led around like they have a ring in their nose into these wars that they don't want based on deep state lies and made up stories. And here we go again, right?

[Tom Woods (Host)]

I remember claims that there really isn't a deep state. This is some weird theory that some right wingers have, there is no deep state. But then I remember at one point during Trump's first term an anonymous op ed in Washington Post that said, yes, there is a deep state. And thank goodness it was something like that. And the argument was, yes, we are here and we are trying to obstruct some of the most destructive foreign policy things that Trump wants to do. And those were all the good things. Those were all the good things it was trying to repair relations with Russia, for example. Like all these things, we're doing our best to get in the way of unbelievable admission.

[Charles Goyette (Guest)]

And I don't want the people, I have so many cases of this in the book. I don't want people to think that the deep state is limited, that these major actors like Alan Dulles, that was the head of the CIA on the Warren Commission, oddly enough, even though he seems very evident to me that he had a hand in the assassination of Kennedy, but you get guys like Clapper and Brennan that lied to Congress and stuff, but people like to think, well, those are, that's the deep state. And the deep state is limited to that. Not so. The deep state works all the way up and down the bureaucracy and all kinds of petty minor bureaucrats. The global American military empire, the empire of lies is the organizing principle of the deep state. The deep state is its executive arm. And everything it does is for the glorification of the American military empire. And you have just one example out of perhaps thousands. You had a guy by the name of, I think it was Arthur Vindman, Lieutenant Colonel in the National Security Council in the Trump White House in the first term. And Vindman, Colonel Vindman was really the guy responsible for the first Trump impeachment effort. And he testified to Congress that the gravamen of his complaint with Trump was that he was not obeying the consensus foreign policy of the interagency. Wait a minute, what is the interagency? Where is that in the Constitution? What are the rules? Who is rewarded by it? Who gets to serve on it? How do they arrive at decisions? Do they vote on things? I mean, this is so antithetical to the American system of governance that the interagency, a board of bureaucrats and busybodies, get to decide the fate of America and foment wars on their own initiative. It's just absolute madness. But that is the deep state. And they operate through all kinds of people at all, all kinds of levels of governance, not just at the top of the CIA. We had, you know, we had a story. I know you would have seen this. There's a story came out of the New York Times. It was last week. You know, the New York Times doesn't usually run the news, but when they do, it's usually too late to matter. But this was a story about the Nixon administration in which the New York Times, James Rosen, I think it was at the Times, wrote an essay about, you know, new information that had come out of the Watergate case and about testimony and interrogatory that Nixon had given. And the story he tells is that very clearly the Joint Chiefs of Staff was spying on the White House. Not just paying attention to White House was doing and going into conferences and arguing with the president and executive authorities or making their case in public, whatever it was. They were stealing documents. They were stealing documents from officials briefcases, they were stealing documents from burn bags. They were stealing documents at every turn from wastebaskets. They were using a Navy enlisted man to do their dirty work. And in all, they stole about 5,000 documents from the Nixon White House and the National Security Council and gave them over to General Moore or Admiral Moore and the Joint Chiefs of Staff so that they could construct their own foreign policy of their own liking. And what didn't they like about what Nixon was doing? And I'm not a defender of Nixon, let me just say they didn't like the idea of Vietnamization you know, turning the thing over. They didn't like the idea of reduced military share of the national budget. They didn't like detente with Russia, not even a hint of it. And that's all we got out of Nixon, was kind of a hint. But they didn't like any of that. And so they went to work subverting them. And this too was the deep state in action. And of course, we don't learn about this face of the deep state, even though it spawned the entire surveillance wiretapping stuff that followed on its heels and became Watergate and so on and so forth.

[Tom Woods (Host)]

You know, you were talking about Orwellian terms for things, and the term kind of means the opposite of what it is in reality. I couldn't help wondering if by any chance, have you ever seen the Apple TV show Severance has two seasons.

[Charles Goyette (Guest)]

Haven't seen it.

[Tom Woods (Host)]

Okay, well, it's about a company and they have a break room. So you think, oh, the break room, that's where the employees go to take a break and socialize and whatever, have a snack. The break room is for when you've been in some way insubordinate. And that's where they're going to break you. I mean, that's Terrifyingly or William, like, holy cow.

[Charles Goyette (Guest)]

I suspect it's a little bit like art imitating life, you know?

[Tom Woods (Host)]

Yeah.

[Charles Goyette (Guest)]

Yeah.

[Tom Woods (Host)]

Hey, everybody. This could be the most important message

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

you've ever gotten from the Tom woods show. And it applies to you if you're a business owner or you're a high W2 earner, paying at least 40k a year in taxes. Because I've got somebody you have to meet. I'm talking about the great Matthew Serley, the brilliant tax attorney who loathes the IRS as much as you do.

[Tom Woods (Host)]

Now, you know the state wants you to be unaware of what you're entitled

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

to and confused and intimidated.

[Tom Woods (Host)]

But you won't be when you work

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

with Matthew C. He's going to cut through all that to make sure you keep everything you can. By the way, you.

[Tom Woods (Host)]

He's one of us.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

He's come on the Tom woods cruise. He's been at my murder mystery parties listening to Tom woods show since episode three. He's in my elite mastermind. He and I stayed at the same house together at our recent meeting in the Virgin Islands. He makes delicious breakfast tacos, by the way, so you won't have to explain yourself to Matthew. Well, sir, this is why I would like to keep more of my money. You don't have to do that with Matthew.

[Tom Woods (Host)]

Plus he's a tax attorney, not a

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

cpa, so your conversations with him are protected by attorney client privilege. So whether you're running a business or doing a side hustle or flipping real estate or you're just sick of handing over half your paycheck to evil sociopaths, Mr. Sersley helps you stay smart, compliant and legally minimize what you pay the IRS. Your next step? Go to www.agoristtaxadvice.com woods that's a G O R I S T taxadvice.com woods and grab your free Agorist Tax Toolkit. It's full of powerful tools and templates you can use to get your business in order to track your expenses and reduce how much the IRS takes from you without crossing any lines.

[Tom Woods (Host)]

So you can keep giving the regime money you don't have to give them,

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

or you can talk to Matthew. Not a super challenging decision. Hey everybody. We're living through historic deficits, persistent inflation, and a Federal Reserve that can't unwind what it's created. And that's why gold is back in the spotlight. Not as a trade, but as real money. But here's the problem.

[Tom Woods (Host)]

Most gold just sits in a vault.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

It protects purchasing power, sure, but it doesn't generate income.

[Tom Woods (Host)]

Monetary Metals changes that.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

They let you earn a yield on gold paid in gold. I lease my gold through Monetary Metals and earn a return of about 4%

[Tom Woods (Host)]

annually paid in physical ounces.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

So I keep my gold and I get more gold over time.

[Tom Woods (Host)]

That means I benefit from rising gold

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

prices and I grow my holdings in ounces. No paper promises, no fiat payouts. Gold becomes a productive yield bearing asset again. The Fed can print dollars, they can't print gold. Learn more@monical medals.com woods and see how you can start earning a gold income. That's monetary medals.com woods so we were

[Tom Woods (Host)]

talking before about what you call combat envy. And I mean, I guess it's maybe that, but it is astonishing. We have certain people who are. It's not like they've weighed the evidence pro and con and they've sadly decided that the balance of the evidence indicates that it's necessary to go to war. This is not the way these people operate. It's. They are champing at the bit for the opportunity to go to war at all times. And we can think of numerous examples of these people. Do you spend much time on Twitter

[Charles Goyette (Guest)]

X Yes, I do.

[Tom Woods (Host)]

Have you seen Mark Levin's feed? I've never seen anything like it.

[Charles Goyette (Guest)]

I can't bear to look at it.

[Tom Woods (Host)]

It's insane.

[Charles Goyette (Guest)]

I cannot bear to look at it.

[Tom Woods (Host)]

It's just one bloodthirsty thing after another. And then everybody who disagrees with them, we all know, is an anti Semite. Nobody can ever disagree in good faith with Mark Levin. Never. Not possible. You're an anti Semite.

[Charles Goyette (Guest)]

He's a really good example of combat envy because one of the characteristics that seems to prevail is they are never at risk themselves in the combat that they. So much envy. But it's like a softball you just threw over the plate for me because I'm. The Empire wise is thick with tales of these combat envy subjects. And it's important to understand these people and, and the access they have to the public mind, the access they have to the public debate, I suppose. Oh, let me give you this one. Brian Williams was the anchor, the primary anchor on NBC News, and he had a story about when he'd flown in in the first Iraq War. He'd flown in on a helicopter and then they'd taken an RPG right down the belly or whatever it at. But the story, he embellished the story. Time after time, it got bigger and bolder and braver and more harrowing with each retelling. And this went on for the longest time. And finally, the guys that were actually on the mission, it was called Big Windy, I think it should have been in honor of Brian Williams himself, Big Windy. But the guys that were actually in the Big Windy operation finally blew the whistle in Stars and Stripes, and they said, you know, this didn't happen. He's making this stuff up. It's not true. And in his defense, caught up in this, Brian Williams goes, oh, I must have had a brain tumor. I mean, it's just absurd. So, but anyway, you would think that a big corporation like General Electric, that owned NBC at the time, you know, would be interested in, you know, protecting the credibility, the reputation of their newsmen. And they're supposed to report about things all over the world that they barely understand and have no firsthand knowledge of, and yet they allow them to lie about the things they know best, like their own things. But General Electric let him go. And I think it was the head of GE said, well, you know, he never criticizes the military, so that's why we like him. So Brian Williams got, I don't know, a couple of months of suspension, and then he went on to anchor msnbc. Tom Another one that I like to tell is a guy named Wayne Simmons on Fox, and he was the national security CIA consultant. And you Know, a guy that had been there and done that, and I think they used him as a commentator on there for like 10 years. And you know why they had used him for 10 years? Because they liked what he said and what did he said. The stuff that he said was insane. Years ago, he was promoting a ground invasion, American ground invasion of Iran years ago. So they liked it. They ate it up. And they kept bringing this guy back, bringing this guy down. Actually, at some point, some real CIA guy got a little embarrassed by this Wayne Simmons, so they blew the whistle on him. And it turned out Fox had no choice but to get rid of him at that point. But it turned out. What was he? Well, he was a felon. He was a hot tub manager, and he was dormant. And yet they kept him on for 10 years, pontificated about strategy and warmongering on behalf of, you know, the warmongering classes. So can I tell you one more?

[Tom Woods (Host)]

I would love to hear it.

[Charles Goyette (Guest)]

Okay. This one is particularly galling. Anybody, anybody on YouTube can probably find, find the video, I've seen it many times, of Bill O'Reilly talking about when I lead my men in battle. And Bill O'Reilly made kind of a habit of that kind of stuff about saying, well, I've been in a war zone and when I was in war in the Falklands, when I was in the Falklands, and so on and so forth. And of course, the truth is he was never in a war zone. He was never in the Falklands, he was never there. And yet he made this stuff up with absolute impunity. And it got worse. He talked about, I, I've seen, I suppose he was talking about El Salvador someplace. He said, I've seen nuns get shot in the head. So what did it turn out? Well, he was in Argentina at the time of the Falklands war, but he's 1,200 miles away, seen nuns get shot in the head. Yeah, you and I have both seen the Zapruder film. We don't say, we don't say that, you know, we were eyewitnesses to Kennedy's assassination. But that's, you know, he'd seen photos, but he dresses this stuff and he misrepresents his position fraudulently. And I haven't read his book about killing Kennedy, but I am told that in there, he says he was on the porch, on the front porch at the front door of a George demoricheld, who was kind of a figure associated with the Oswald CIA figure in Florida. And he says, I was on the front porch. I guess Ringing the doorbell or something when I heard the shotgun blast. And George de Marenschel blew off his own head. Well, truth be told, he wasn't in Florida. He wasn't in the same state. He didn't know that somebody at his TV station had recorded phone calls he was making from the TV station in Dallas or Houston or wherever it was at the time of this event. So he fabricated the whole thing. And what do you think Fox did with this blatant liar on their anchoring their big show? Nothing. Nothing. And so this is how much respect I believe that they have for the American people. Selling the war, which is good for ratings, selling the Fox News alert, selling the fear, Fear mongering, warmongering is more important to them. Rupert Murdoch's firm, you know, it's good for advertising in the Wall Street Journal. All those defense contractors spend a lot of money. It's good for them, but it's not so good for the American people. And it says that they have a low regard for their own integrity and for us, their viewers as well.

[Tom Woods (Host)]

This is another example of the importance of Dr. Paul, because until he came along and forced the issue by being on nationally televised debates and being a consistent non interventionist, nobody had heard this position. Unless you were in really niche libertarian circles or dissident circles of one kind or another, you would never hear that position. It would always be a matter of, well, we can do this terrible thing to that country or that terrible thing, but it would never be, well, what are we doing this for? This is, there's no sense to it and it's counterproductive and cost us a fortune. And maybe we should consider for once in our lives not doing something, you know, just staying out. You'd never hear that.

[Charles Goyette (Guest)]

You never hear that. And yes, as a great admirer of Dr. Paul like yourself, I remember in the, in the debate with Rudy Giuliani and Dr. Paul said what was obvious, I mean, all you had to do was go back and look at Osama bin Laden's fatwa against the United States. And it was about, you know, all the children that had died under what Madeleine Albright was applauding, you know, about the sanctions and the cost it took on the civilian population and stuff like that. Anyway, Rudy Giuliani, America's mayor, had never heard any of this stuff. And when Dr. Paul said, you know, a lot of this is blowback from our actions overseas, Rudy Giuliani looked wide eyed and stunned and he said, well, I've never heard that before. That was the debate when Dr. Paul said the sensible thing and said, you know, we just marched in.

[Tom Woods (Host)]

We had just marched out. Oh, that.

[Charles Goyette (Guest)]

We had just marched out and saved all those lives.

[Tom Woods (Host)]

Yeah, no kidding. No kidding. You know, and it's funny, years and years and years and years ago, I was on with Sean Hannity and while I was promoting a book and I happened to be critical of Franklin Roosevelt and how he handled the Depression, and I said that the New Deal had made it go on longer than it would have otherwise, and he had never heard that argument before. Now, if he had been Brian Williams, I wouldn't have expected that. But he's Sean Hannity. Like, he's supposed to be one of the big names in the conservative movement, and he's never heard that argument advanced, even though it's all over the conservative literature. It's almost like he's not reading books.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Charles.

[Charles Goyette (Guest)]

None of them do like O'Reilly, even his own.

[Tom Woods (Host)]

Somebody probably writes them, of course, and

[Charles Goyette (Guest)]

opinionated and to use his term, bloviating on national TV every night. It was someplace deep into the Ron Paul in the Fed movement that I saw O'Reilly say on TV one night, who is this guy Keynes that everybody's talking about? You know, so he never bothered to equate himself with the dominant economic arguments, had gotten America into the bankrupt state that we have now entered. He had no idea what the debate was about, national economics and who this guy Keynes was. I mean, it's just. And, you know, the same could be said for Sean Hannity. I watched Sean Hannity for years, say, well, you know what they did, they slipped those weapons of mass destruction that we couldn't find and they moved them to Syria. Yeah, but of course, there was no evidence of that. As I said, we had satellite surveillance, could tell whether it was your quarter, was heads or tails in your back pocket. But nobody knew anything about, you know, Sean's claim. Well, I'm sure what they did is they moved all the Saddam's weapons of mass destruction to Syria. It's a crazy level of negligence that provides us our news nowadays.

[Tom Woods (Host)]

We have, we have a lot of grounds for complaint as we live in 2026. But nowadays we have a lot of independent sources of information and we have a lot of people. I mean, practically everybody is walking around with a camera and a video camera at that at all times, which does make it harder to lie about stuff like this. We get instant corrections just like that. But it really does make you wonder before all this, how bad were the lies that now, unfortunately, are just ossified into the conventional wisdom. How bad were they before we had all this communication technology? What have we been told that we take for granted that was made up?

[Charles Goyette (Guest)]

It was like a narrow pipeline of ABC News, cbs, NBC, New York Times, Washington Post, you know, the apupi, they had a little pipeline, a chokehold on all the news and information that the American people got back in those days, you know, when Kennedy was assassinated, I think probably 9 out of 10 of the American people believed that it was the lone gunman, it was the Harry Oswald Warrant commission nonsense, all of that. Foreigners didn't. People in Europe, you know, where they had seen governments change. It was a daily fact of intergenerational life in Europe, you know, there were statues in every city of grand dukes and kings and stuff that had been gone and toppled and changed. They knew what had happened and stuff. But the American people bought it all while the rest of the world thought it's a little fishy. I don't think so. When Jack Ruby, the mafia associate gunned down Lee Harvey Oswald, nobody with any level of sophistication about how these things work believed his story. Well, we felt sorry for Jackie and I didn't want her to have to testify and go through court and stuff. So that's why I killed him and the rest of the world kind of wide eyed. But the American people were trusting because this pipeline of news and information was so tightly controlled. So they bought it all. Today, as you point out, you know, we've all got cameras and we all got, we've all got ways that people can listen to your show and you mentioned Scott and Dr. Paul's show. And there are all kinds of alternative ways of getting news and information. So they don't buy everything the way that they did. There are alternatives to them, but they still are a little bit like, I guess it's like Stockholm syndrome. Back in the 60s, maybe the 70s, the people didn't know they were being lied to. But now after Kennedy and after the Vietnam War and after weapons of mass destruction and after Covid and after about transitory inflation and after all this, they kind of know. So when the government says something and makes up a story, they roll their eyes a little bit, but they're like captives that have made their peace with the state. Well, we know we're being lied to, but what you going to do? It's politics. But that is a trajectory to hell for us in our free republic.

[Tom Woods (Host)]

Well, no doubt. So folks, I highly recommend Empire of Lies by the great Charles Goyet who was put through the wringer for being a skeptic of all this and truth teller at a time when truth tellers were few and far between. So it's great to have him still out there putting out good material like this. I. I know your dollar Meltdown book was just top notch. I might have even blurbed that book. I don't remember. It's been so long.

[Charles Goyette (Guest)]

Yes, you did.

[Tom Woods (Host)]

Okay.

[Charles Goyette (Guest)]

You gave me a nice blurb for that book.

[Tom Woods (Host)]

Thank you. Thank you.

[Charles Goyette (Guest)]

You didn't say, well, why'd you steal my title, Meltdown?

[Tom Woods (Host)]

No, I did.

[Charles Goyette (Guest)]

It wasn't me, it was the publisher.

[Tom Woods (Host)]

I figured we could discuss that in person.

[Charles Goyette (Guest)]

But anyway, Tom, I do want to say one thing, though, please. Is the tremendous influence you've had. And I've told you on the show before, but it's been a very long time. So I want to refresh the message that so many of my friends and people that I care about and one of my producers of my old radio show and stuff, they're just habitual listeners and you have opened so many eyes and you're a great instructor and a great explainer of things that people take. They don't always understand, but they get an exposure to your show for a couple of days and they start figuring these things out for themselves. So you, you have no idea the impact you made, but it has been huge.

[Tom Woods (Host)]

Well, that is a very generous thing.

[Charles Goyette (Guest)]

Oh, I want to tell you one other thing, please. Along that line, if we have time, it's real short. I read a kind of a screed about libertarians and how awful they are on one of the websites, and I can't remember where it was, but it was Sun Woman and it went on and it was crazy. It was one of the worst written things I've ever seen, but it got a fair amount of attention. It was long screen, seemed like it went on forever. And, you know, it was all about evil libertarians this and the other. But at least she had the presence of mind. Midway through, she said, but I do admire Tom Woods. Oh, yeah, it was very nice that, you know, she had to acknowledge you stood apart from anything she could possibly be criticizing.

[Tom Woods (Host)]

I wonder why. Well, that's a surprise. Sometimes it's. Especially Tom Woods. But that's good.

[Charles Goyette (Guest)]

That's good. Grateful for small favors. Yeah.

[Tom Woods (Host)]

All right. Well, @tomwoods.com 2739, I have LinkedIn Charles Goyette's book Empire of Lies. Pick it up and arm yourself and be. I mean, again, even if we lived through this stuff, we don't even know half the nonsense that they tried to put over on us. So be educated. Read Charles Goyette.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Thanks Charles.

[Charles Goyette (Guest)]

Tom, it's so great to talk to you.

[Tom Woods (Host)]

Thank you and thank you, ladies and gentlemen.

[Tom Woods (Show Intro/Outro)]

Make yourself and those you love less vulnerable to the regime, both mentally and physically. Physically get more forbidden [e-mail] and be sure to subscribe to the show wherever you listen. See you next time.

[Tom Woods (Host)]

Like the sound of the Tom Wood show, my audio production is provided by Podsworth Media.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Check them [e-mail] Enter code WOODS50 to get 50% off your first order. If your recording sounds rough, the Podsworth app can make it not only listenable, but professional. Remember, when you use code WOODS50, you'll get half off your first order and you'll also be supporting this show when

[Shopify Ad Voice]

it's time to scale your business it's time for Shopify. Get everything you need to grow the way you want. Like all the way. Stack more sales with the best converting checkout on the planet. Track your cha chings from every channel right in one spot and turn real time reporting into big time opportunities. Take your business to a whole new level. Switch to Shopify. Start your free trial today

[VRBO Ad Voice]

at vrbo. We understand that even the best of plans sometimes need a little support, so we plan for the plot twists. Every booking is automatically backed by our VRBO Care Guarantee, giving you confidence from the very start. Whenever you need help, it's ready before your stay, through the moments in between and after your trip. Because a great trip starts with peace of mind and maybe a good playlist. But we've got the peace of mind part covered.

[Blinds.com Ad Voice]

At blinds.com, it's not just about window treatments. It's about you. Your style, your space, your way. Whether you DIY or want the pros to handle it all, you'll have the confidence of knowing it's done right. From free expert design help to our 100% satisfaction guarantee, everything we do is made to fit your life and your windows. [e-mail], the only thing we treat better than Windows is you. Visit blinds.com now for up to 45% off select styles plus a free professional measure. Rules and restrictions apply.