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- [00:02]
A
Get ready to take a flamethrower to the official narrative and learn what the elites don't want you to know. You're listening to the Tom Woods Show.
- [00:19]
B
Hey everybody, Tom woods here. It's episode 2744 of the Tom Woods Show. The great Robert Barnes, the only constitutional lawyer you ever want to hear from, is here with us. He is the founder of the 1776,
- [00:31]
A
what is it called, 1776 Law Center.
- [00:34]
B
Law center. I couldn't think of it because I was thinking Southern Poverty Law center and I thought it can't be the same words. But maybe you're using the same words to try to indicate that maybe in some senses your kind of answer to some of these terrible people out there. But you are the guy I want to listen to on all these kinds of questions. And today we got to deal with this craziness that may turn out to be nothing. It's, it may turn out to be a so called nothing burger. But even if it does, it still matters because the way people reacted to the story, if indeed it turns out there is one, and that is this matter of Tucker Carlson evidently having been in contact with Iran in a way that would be described as treasonous because the US Is at, well, war or not, is at something with Iran at the moment. And to see the way that Tucker's enemies were gleefully pouncing that he's going to wind up behind bars. Laura Loomer, I do not would not want her as an ally. If I found out she was my ally, I would say to her, I really just don't want you around. I don't want you associated with my name. But not everybody's like me. And she was boasting that she has helped push this case against Tucker forward and that she hopes that he winds up in prison. So I thought we have to talk about this. So the question of whether there really is any real case against Tucker formally being put together is very much in question. I'll get back to that later. But if there were to be one, what, according to what we've heard so far, is it likely to consist of?
- [02:04]
A
Basically what Tucker reported is that CIA was spying on his text and intercepting his communications with the various people in Iran when he was trying to set up an interview with the president of Iran back in the summer of 2025. The only plausible allegations you could make would be something like a FARA violation for an Agent's Registration Act. And there's no evidence that that's the case here. Now, the first Problem with story Tucker was told is that the CIA has no statutory, constitutional or other right to spy or intercept any communication of an American. The CIA's own charter prohibits and precludes. Sometimes people see this in TV shows and movies reference. But it is in fact legally correct in this instance, the TV shows and movies. The CIA has no power to spy on people inside the United States territory who are themselves United States citizens. So the NSA has that power through the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. But if they're going to target an American, if they're going to unmask who the communication is to, they also have to go through and get court approval through the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, which is appointed by Chief Justice Roberts. Now, both of these, of course, have been controversial in recent times because General Flynn was one of the very few people ever prosecuted under far and a very misuse and abuse of prosecutorial power by Robert Mueller's crew in Trump's first term. And of course, the FISA abuse was part of what led to Spygate, which was part of the whole Russiagate scandal in the first term of the President's administration, which Tulsi Gabbard has already outed and is part subject to a criminal referral being made to the Southern District of Florida to look into people like John Brennan and a range of others connected to him concerning their legal behavior. So the question is, is the CIA doing it? Again, if the CIA did in fact spy or intercept on these communications, then they have violated the constitutional rights of Tucker Carlson and have acted outside their statutory authority and themselves committed crimes. So I have doubts about the story that Tucker was told that the CIA would make a criminal referral to the Justice Department because they're criminal. But who knows, they may be that dumb because such a criminal referral would be an admission and acknowledgement of their own criminality, not of anything Tucker did. For those that are concerned, hey, does the Foreign Agents Registration act restrict my First Amendment speech rights here in the United States? Of course, no statute can overturn the Constitution of the United States. So first answer is no. Second is so that you have to interpret that law in light of the First Amendment and the way in which it's been interpreted. And it only applies if you're really not speaking for yourself, but you're speaking as an agent of somebody else. And that agent is a foreign principle who you are acting under the control or supervision of. So most common, most ordinary people deal with the concept of agency in the principle of their employment. When is somebody my agent? When am I somebody else's? Agent. Think about those principles. Am I acting on my behalf? Am I acting on somebody else's behalf? If you're not acting on somebody else's behalf and that somebody else isn't a foreign principle anyway, then you're not subject to fara. Even then, the FARA law itself says if you're involved in scientific work, academic work, literary work, artistic work, or journalistic work, you are entirely excluded and exempt from FARA in the first place. So if you're a journalist engaged in news gathering, you're not covered under the FARA laws. So this means that there's nothing that Tucker did in trying to get an interview with the Iranian president that could even possibly be a violation of the law, least of all something that could be constitutionally upheld as a plausible indictment. But what it does suggest is a pattern of harassment that is likely to escalate in the context of war, as we've seen in America and like around the world. Like what happened during COVID Once the war machine gets rolling, censorship and prosecution of people for politicized reasons soon follows it. So that's what's really likely behind the scenes is an effort to intimidate not just Tucker, but everybody else. You better put your head low. You better keep your mouth shut, or you might be next.
- [06:11]
B
Right, right, right, right. I do want to say, just for completeness, the issue of whether or not the United States is technically, quote, at war is potentially an issue here because the administration has made such a big deal out of claiming that they're not at war. Even though the president keeps saying, using the word war. The vice president is very careful, even if he has to stumble, to do it, to avoid the use of the word war. So if they really, really want to insist to us that they're not at war, then, you know, they've made their beds. Now they have to sleep in it. So whatever Tucker is doing, he's doing at a time when apparently the US Is not at war. Does that matter?
- [06:48]
A
It can't matter. In certain contexts, there's nothing Tucker did that would be considered a criminal violation of these laws of sedition or treason or the like anyway. But the treason laws, for example, which are constitutionally constrained in their definition because there was great concern by our founders that treason would be misused and abused in the way President Trump is currently talking about wanting to misuse and abuse it, saying, if media are continue to expose the failures of my war effort in Iran, then they should be prosecuted for treason. This is insanity. This is a constitutional violation. It's going to be one count of about 125. They get this president impeached, in my opinion, unfortunately for those of us that backed him. But basically, treason only applies when there's been a formal declaration of war. So you can play games. I mean, I'll give them credit. They took Putin's special military operation in Ukraine and they're like, yeah, let's just steal that. And they're like, well, we can't use the exact same phrase because then everybody will know, oh, what, Special combat operation. Yes, but even Vance can't remember the terms. Like, what am I supposed to say again? Oh, yeah, not a war. Special combat operation. I mean, the level of Orwellian. It's like, what would happen if Orwell was. And that's the current Trump administration's protection of all of this nonsense.
- [08:00]
B
I'm reading a series of posts by a guy who I guess is a White House reporter for Axios, and he says this. The online chatter about Tucker Carlson looked like quite a story. He was being spied on by the CIA and knowing that Trump treated him as a useful idiot by feeding him disinformation that fooled the Iranians about the looming Feb. 28 attack. But top administration officials say it's, well, I don't use bad words on the show because I want parents to be able to drive around with little Johnny in the backseat. But let's just say top administration officials say it's, you know, it's not true, let's put it that way. And he says specifically, I'm told, number one, there is no CIA investigation of Carlson. Number two, in his meeting, the two politely disagreed, and Trump held to his position that Iran was a threat and did not mislead Tucker. And one source says Trump, quote, wasn't participating in an op. So that's all. I mean, if this guy is to be believed, and I don't see why, why not? Then this is being hyped up by people who just can't stand Tucker. And I can't. I wonder what it is about Tucker. You think it's his economic policies that people dislike or, I don't know, maybe they just think he's a boring host. Is there. Do you think there could be anything motivating? I mean, I don't need you to read minds here, Robert, but what do you think is really going on here? Hey, everybody. I think many of you know I have a newborn son just about three months old as I record this. And you probably don't know that his birth had some complications Maybe not the birth per se, but the months and weeks leading up to it were very, very difficult because the doctors came to the conclusion that my wife seemed to have something called chronic hypertension with superimposed preeclampsia. And that meant very lengthy hospital stays. She was in the hospital for quite a while on two separate occasions. I'm talking weeks at a time. And then the baby was born 36 weeks, so a little early. So the baby spent a few days in the nicu. Now, you add all that up, and that is going to be one overwhelming hospital bill. I've got the numbers.
- [10:01]
A
Okay.
- [10:02]
B
You know, even if you have traditional insurance, you're going to hate that. Now, you've heard me talk about crowd health, which is an amazing crowdfunding substitute for traditional health insurance. We use crowd health. But I've had people say to me, all right, but would it come through for you if you had a really, really big hospital bill? Well, let me tell you something. I've got the total. You would not believe the numbers we're talking about in terms of how much the whole thing costs with her staying all that time. And crowd health absolutely delivered for us. Absolutely delivered. I do not regret one bit getting out from under the traditional health insurance scam. Crowd health did exactly what it said it would do, and we did not have to worry about these bills. This was taken care of. We pay a flat fee for a pregnancy, which is less than we would have paid in our traditional insurance, and we didn't have to worry about this stuff at all. They took care of everything for us. So we're saving every month in terms of premiums. We're saving. And then we had this big, big event, and we didn't have to worry about a thing. Crowd health worked exactly the way it said it would. Their health bill negotiators got to work. They got everything taken care of for us. Unbelievable. Top notch. Okay, so normally in these ads, I give you all the details, exactly how it works. Yeah. Much more important than any of that is that we just had probably the most expensive, stressful, terrifying medical experience ever in terms of the dollar amounts involved. And crowd health absolutely came through. We didn't have to worry about a single thing. Now, it's not insurance. Remember, crowd health is not insurance. It's an alternative to insurance. It's crowdfunding. It's a crowdfunding solution to insurance. I am living proof and little tiny Henry woods is living proof that it works. So this year, take your power back. Join crowd health to get started today. For $99 a month for your first three months. Using code woods@joincrowdhealth.com that's joincrowdhealth.com Code Woods. It's not health insurance. It's better take your power back. Joincrowdhealth.com Code Woods.
- [12:11]
A
Well, I encourage people. It's a filter I've used for a long time, and I call it confession through projection. So if you think about it, anytime in your life, at some point, somebody comes and makes, like, a crazy allegation against you that just makes no sense. Often they're confessing their own crimes. It's the old Edgar Allen Poe's Telltale Heart beats loudly that people just have this need to confess. Like, if you listen to almost anything President Macron of France says about Russia, he's telling you what Europe is about to do or has done. It's not about Russia. If Ukraine's talking about casualties, whenever they mention Ukrainian casualties, those are the Russian casualties. Whenever they mention Russian casualties, those are the Ukrainian casualties. And I found it all. Sometimes people confess in, like, shocking ways. So I've been using it with Trump ever since he started losing his mind, in my opinion, starting in late last summer. And it's stunningly. It's like when he says, Iran is begging for a ceasefire, but the terms aren't acceptable to me yet. What he really means is Trump is begging for a ceasefire, but Iran is unwilling to accept what Trump wants to provide his terms. So I think the same thing is true here. Notice their obsession with, hey, there's a foreign government afoot that is involved in illicitly interfering with and hijacking US Public policy, including the opinions of prominent podcasters, influencers and social media folks. Well, there is such a government. They are, in fact, infiltrating and hijacking and staging a coup over the American government. But it ain't Qatar, it ain't Saudi Arabia, it ain't Iran, it ain't the Ruskies, it ain't China, it's Israel, and it's the Israel lobby that has got their ultimate takeover of an entire administration's policies, not only concerning Gaza or Lebanon or Syria or war with Iran, but our relationship with the Gulf states and all of that. But also things like the Epstein files. The Epstein files, the total reversal by the president corresponds to this sort of complete subservience to the Israel lobby. And they've done this throughout the administration. If anybody in the administration or who's going to come in, people like Brandon Weishardt, people like Jeremy Carl, These are people that are very strong Trump supporters, knowledgeable on issues of foreign policy. They have been excluded or kicked out. Dan Caldwell, former Secretary of Defense, now Secretary of War, Heg's death, you know, the kind of person who was moderating and modify you know, the insanity of someone like Heath when left alone. All these people were perched. All these people were either excluded or kicked out of the administration for one reason and one reason only, their failure to be subservient to Israel. If you look at a lot of the people that have not been known as maga who suddenly got high ranking jobs in the administration, you look at people like the Secretary of Commerce Lutnick, you look Secretary of Treasury Besant, Secretary of State Rubio, CIA Director Ratcliffe, General Counsel, the CIA, Michael Ellis. You look at a range of these people that, you know, you had the political people that helped him win, people like Bobby Kennedy and Tulsi Gabbard and J.D. vance and Elbridge Colby and Joe Kent and that crowd. But the people that didn't have anything to do with him winning, they got all these positions of power. They have one thing in common, including Dan Bongino and Cash Patel and Pam Bondi and Todd Blanch and Stanley Woodward. They're all deeply loyal to Israel. They're Israel firsters. Basically, Israel has captured this administration and being unsatisfied with just capturing the administration and its policies and hijacking all of Trump and the Trump Part 2. They've also been enraged that the public is pointing this out upon occasion. So the next step was massive, illicit. I mean, it's publicly known that they were spending hundreds of thousands, millions of dollars to influence and buy off influencers in the United States. But those influencers have still not been disclosed. The agency hired to do it disclosed, but they didn't disclose who it is they were hiring. And so, you know, there was talk of up to $7,000 a post, or maybe it was $7,000 a month. Whatever it was, huge amounts of money have been flooding into this space and you suddenly see people that have been, you know, Israel skeptics, that have been war critics. Suddenly, you know, on this, you know, Tucker Carlson is the devil, Laura Zur is some sort of hero. I mean, this is someone who modeled for the character Jigsaw out of the movie Saw. This is not someone who should be dictating any degree of public policy. So that's what's really underneath all of this, is the Israel lobby has hijacked the American administration under President Trump. And in order to keep it a secret. They're running smear and censor campaigns against anybody buying off various influencers and social media and other networks to achieve their ends. And they're confessing through projecting when they keep telling you there's a foreign government that's hijacking our influencers and hijacking our public policy. But the reality is it's them, not their adversaries.
- [17:02]
B
And at this point it's so obvious, at least before, you know, they did us the courtesy of trying to be cagey about it and now it's so out in the open. But yet they seem to think that the hostility that is being thereby provoked, I mean, after all, we've seen poll numbers showing that American favorability toward Israel is at an all time low. So you can imagine what American favorability toward people who just lobby for Israel 24 hours a day must be. They're really thinking that they're going to handle this by just denying everything. There is no such thing as Israel first you anti Semites made that up. They're just going to deny everything instead of saying, well yeah, a lot of us have a deep and profound abiding concern for Israel for personal reasons, but also for strategic reasons that we think are shared by the United States. And let me list them for you. Now how often do you get that? I mean Robert, you for a long time as was I would be counted in Israel's corner. And when you had some misgivings that you started to express, did anybody say to you, oh Robert, listen, you've been such a wonderful ally, the least we can do that we owe you as decent human beings is to just explain to you a little bit better what the strategic value of Israel to the US Is. I would tend to think nobody.
- [18:13]
A
It's very much the reaction that I got for simply pointing out the implicit promise of the Israel lobby in Trump 2024 was if MAGA backs protecting Israel, then Israel lobby will fund Trump and MAGA agenda items. But in fact, they betrayed that promise and immediately hijacked it all for their own purposes, for the detriment of the coalition. Because like my objections to this Iranian conflict, the first one is just that. It breaks up the entire 2024 coalition and likely leads to Democrats controlling the House, the Senate and the White House by 2028. They'll control the House and the Senate by 2026. I was just not willing, like Matt Walsh said, I was not willing to sacrifice the midterms and the 2028 for Israel's priorities, particularly when those priorities were not apparently or manifestly in their own self interest, their security. Iran was no imminent threat to Israel any more than it was the United States. As long as they didn't attack him. You know, which was our perverted, distorted logic. But the reality is the Scott Hortons of the world, the Dave Smiths of the world, the Ron Pauls of the world, the Rand Pauls of the world, the Thomas masses of the world, their skepticism of our getting entangled, those are people following President George Washington's farewell address. People forget, he said, not only avoid getting unduly involved in about adversaries globally, but he said, especially stay away from your friends. Your friends will get you dragged into a dumb, stupid war easier than anybody. So he said, whatever you do, don't do that. But the reality is Israel hasn't been much of a friend in the United States. The Israel Lobby is documented by Professor Mearsheimer back in 06 and 07, has constantly been sabotaging American foreign policy. And they've done more spying on the US Than anybody. They've stolen more secrets from the US than anybody is Israel. But some of us were willing to push that aside as long as they were part of the MAGA coalition. Instead, they become the ultimate traitors and saboteurs. And whenever I started voicing criticism and questions and concerns, which I think even for Israel's own benefit, this is war is not good. I mean, only they're getting hammered within the war, but they're going to have no allies left in the world. And when you have no allies left in the world, how long do you think your small little nation can survive? You know, nuclear weapons only works as a deterrent to the degree that you have at least some degree of public buy in around the world. Otherwise you're going to be a pariah state like North Korea. And I don't think Israel can sustain that. So I don't even think this is in Israel's best interest. But it became clear what Israel Lobby was up to and they were sabotaging everything else in the Trump administration. The Justice Department's become an open pay for play scheme. You can see this reported in everything from Libertarian publications to, to the American Prospect in terms of the antitrust division, the Justice Department, there's a, you know, the pardons are pay for play. What happens when you dig into these corruption issues? You'll find the same Israel Lobby connected people, people like Laura Lehuzer, keep showing up connected to these items as well. You know, is it a coincidence that Loomer went nuts on Tucker after Tucker disclosed that she's involved in a scam trying to rip off old people connected to bogus gold sales. So probably not. But yeah, the reaction to me has been whenever I've voiced any criticism or skepticism or concern and I'm a big believer in short term, medium term predictability, listen to what somebody says and see if they can make short medium term predictions that are accurate. And so on the Iran conflict I follow people like Lt. Col. Daniel Davis and Col. Douglas MacGregor the Duran, Alexander McCorris and Alex Cristofora.
- [21:34]
B
Daniel Davis, another guy they tried to keep out of the administrator. They successfully kept out of the administration.
- [21:38]
A
They did. Swampy Susie was the one who helped block him because Tulsi Gabbard wanted him in. But yeah, the reaction has been hey Barnes, when you originally gave that criticism it sounded better than the original German. You know the where's your little Nazi outfit? Do you like to goose step around the office on your house when you wake up in the morning? The other thing that's really stupid about equating support or opposition to Israel's particular policies with the religion or identity of Judaism is it increases anti Semitism, it doesn't decrease it. 1 it's a complete lie. Zionism and Judaism are not the same thing. Ask a lot of Orthodox Jews who will go on a long lecture about how heretical Zionism is or talk to a lot of liberal and left wing Jews who are highly critical of Zionism and have been from its inception. So you have that aspect. One out of four Israelis oppose Jewish Israelis oppose this war in Iran. So there's people in Israel who do not agree that Bibi Netanyahu equals Judaism any more than Israel equals Judaism. But what that does is that jacks up the anti Semitism the Nick Fuentes of the world look prescient now because of all of this. Now I told people if you listen to Nick Fuentes and Scott Horton, Scott Horton's been a lot more accurate than Nick Fuentes. But you look at to the people that have been on the war skeptical side, the Israel skeptical side. It comes from detailed diligent study of these issues for the past 30, 40 years. It's coming to fruition in a mushroom cloud. I mean that's how bad it is becoming in the risk that we run. That's why Tucker Carlson anti Semitic. There's not anti Semitic bone in his body. Bret Weinstein anti Semitic Jew hating Jew self loathing. I mean this is insanity. They're using the rhetoric and language of the left because they need to censor and shame in order to suppress the knowledge and awareness that these are dangerous policies because America's government has been hijacked by a foreign nation.
- [23:21]
B
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- [27:07]
A
Oh, I think. No doubt. And I think the fact that these are people that have Tucker previously strongly supported Israel, people like myself strongly supported Israel. People like Megyn Kelly strongly supported Israel. People like Piers Morgan strongly supported Israel. And mostly we were just reflective and representative of what is broadly happening. Like, I'll get people that will attack me, say, barnes, you're crazy, you've lost your mind, blah, blah. And it's like, okay, so Alex Jones also lost his mind. Joe Rogan also lost his mind. Theo Bond also lost his mind. Tim Dillon.
- [27:35]
B
They all became anti Semitic simultaneously.
- [27:38]
A
Yeah, exactly. We all started suffering anti Israeli virus.
- [27:41]
B
Yeah.
- [27:41]
A
That spread somehow, like Covid or it could be the case that what we're seeing in public opinion. Richard Barris, People's Pundit Daily we even did a whole video on this last year breaking down the whole political history of American public opinion about Israel, in which you could see we predicted it before it happened. Now it's actually happened. Said that, you know, that sometime over the next couple of years, a majority of more Americans will side with the Palestinians and sympathize with the Palestinians in Israel. We were just documenting to large degree, what Tucker is doing is simply representing what is broadly happening throughout the world, which is that the world is rejecting Israel right now in the United States, every generation other than boomers have a very negative view of Israel, have an unfavorable view of Israel, have a more sympathetic view of Palestinians. And these are the Palestinians, like that are affiliated or associated in court of public opinion with Hamas and PLO and all of that. They still sympathize more with the Palestinians than with Israel. It's not because they're so sympathetic toward the Palestinians. It's because they're that hostile to Israel, particularly Bibi Netanyahu's Israel and the Greater Israel Project. And what they've done in dragging us into all these conflicts was one thing, the raising of Gaza almost to the ground was the second thing. And the third was dragging us into war that the don't drag us into another war, and least of all with Iran. And that's what people like. I mean, the another person who was going through this exact same conversion in lifetime, who experienced mass just because they were intellectually honest and they were listening to the community, was Charlie Kirk. I mean, I had these conversations offline with Charlie, and there's different branches within Turning Point, and so there's an ongoing struggle there. But I'll give them credit. Last week, Charlie Kirk show put me on to talk about it for about half an hour. And they got so much crap. There was a massive cancellation campaign, a demand that donors quit donating to Turning Point simply because the Charlie Kirk show had me on. That was it. I was just on for a few minutes. Mark Levin was, you know, giving them free unsolicited advice, of course, about how to, you know, how to make sure to blacklist people like us. To their credit, they stood with it. They went on. Megyn Kelly said they're going to do it again. I mean, Andrew in particular knows how much Charlie had taken a different position increasingly on Israel. And you see them trying to gin up, like, a fear of Islamic presence in the United States. And there's Legitimate concerns mixed in there. I don't dispute that, what's happening in Europe and other places, but it's going to be exaggerated here in the United States. Large number of voters in Dearborn voted for Trump in 2024.
- [30:06]
B
So Trump was proud of that.
- [30:07]
A
Yes, he was. He solicited their votes. He. He wanted their votes. And now all of a sudden, that's the great threat to America, not the Israel lobby hijacking our entire military, economic and political policy for a tiny foreign nation to engage in a possible apocalyptic war because Haig's death, man, you talk about people falling off the wagon. He fell off the neo wagon and went and just started binging like a madman. I mean, I knew that he believed in some of these things, but I talked to him years ago. He told me he had rejected all that. He's no longer part of that, and he didn't like that. Maybe he was sincere, maybe he wasn't. Some of these people, I don't know how much they were sincere. Now, you do know there's criticisms out there about J.D. vance. Vance lobbied obsessively against this war and this conflict. That's why he got stuck in D.C. it wasn't Trump to even bring him to Mar A Lago to launch the attack. And when everything JD Told him said, we got this risk, this risk, this risk started coming true, Trump's reaction was to get enraged. They get mad and cancel certain public events that JD Was going to appear. That's why he basically disappeared for about a week. I mean, Trump is frankly becoming King Lear mad by what I've heard from people up in the administration, like Susie Wiles has literally instructed cabinet members to not deliver any information to Trump that he could interpret negatively. That's how bad it is. Unfortunately, it could get worse before it gets better. But Tulsi Gabbard, I know there's been a lot of criticism of her because she long said this war would be a disaster. She did everything she could to try to stop this. And, yeah, could she resign? Yes. But then she's got no power at all. Then she's got no influence at all. And she's hopeful by constantly being there, whispering in Trump's ear, maybe get him to take an exit ramp, maybe get him to not escalate, not go to ground forces. And unfortunately, the worst of the escalatory risk in Iran that Tucker's absolutely right to warn people about is the use of nuclear weapons. They are seriously considering that as an option. So you got ground forces, draft and nuclear weapons that's how this could get way out of hand. And let's hope that the sound insane voices get to the president enough to stop him from escalating in that direction.
- [32:11]
B
Yeah, that his state of mind right now is the opposite of what it should be. He should be saying, who was it who pushed me into this stupid thing? These people I have to just turn off. But he's not doing that as far as, I mean, I don't know what goes on behind closed doors. But I joked the other day on Twitter, I'm a decent Twitter follow, I think, and I said, look, now that he's defending Mark Levin with this impenetrable block of unreadable text last night or whenever it was with all this going on, does this not maybe suggest to us that whatever it is they have on him must be pretty terrible if he's reduced to what no self respecting person would do, namely writing a big fawning tribute to Mark Levin of all people? Yeah, I'm worried about this. And the thing is, you know, when on the campaign trail and in 2024 in particular, I think everybody who sympathized with Trump thought, all right, look, we all know there's, you know, there's something a little bit odd upstairs with the guy and he will fly off the handle at people who have been his longtime allies. His loyalty is not very great. He expects perfect loyalty to him, but he doesn't have to be loyal to anybody else. Oh, you defended me through two impeachments. Oh, what have you done for me lately Is his attitude toward Thomas Massie, for example. But we all kind of, I think, thought, well, but offsetting that is the potential he has to do good. Offsetting that is that. But now it's, he's in a situation where things are, you know, obviously going badly and now that part of his personality really comes to the fore. And if people are afraid to give him bad news, well, this is, I
- [33:51]
A
don't know what to say about becomes very, very dangerous. So when I was a kid, my dad died when I was 11 and I had these two books that I really just clung to for like the next year as sort of mentor, sort of paternalistic guides. One of them was Robert Kennedy Sr's book To Seek a Newer World about his campaign text in 1968. And the other one was Donald Trump's Art of the Deal. I remember I shared that story with Bobby Kennedy Jr. Some years ago. He got a kick out of it. But the thing I stuck to out of the Deal was Trump had this unique mindset which was expect the best, but always plan for the worst. So it was this great marriage of idealism, almost utopianism mixed with hardcore balanced and tethered by realism. And I found it to be a very powerful motivational tool in almost anything that I did professionally. Trump has now abandoned the latter part of that. He doesn't want any realism. Instead, everything's got to just be positive thinking. And this is where positive thinking can go awry. It becomes wishful thinking, it becomes hallucinatory self delusions. And that's where Trump mentally is when people get confused, where Trump says they don't. Iran doesn't have any boats. This is just a made up lie. What this has been part of Iran's defense way back. These go fast type boats. They can. Their navy is not a traditional navy. Their army is not a traditional army. The air force is not a traditional air force. They knew they couldn't win that way. Instead, they have a bunch of drones and underground ballistic missiles. They have a bunch of underwater drones and go fast boats with missiles attached to them that apparently sent the USS Lincoln. Despite all of our false claims, everybody can see the satellite footage. It's going backwards, it ain't going forwards. The and Trump's out there saying no. I think he, he convinced it. He now he has told the truth. He was told the truth about Straits of Hormuz. He was told the truth about their weapons, about the regime change would collapse, wouldn't happen. He was told all this. He just ignored it. He refused to listen to it because of. You remember the movie Memento, where the character, sorry, if anybody out there listening hasn't seen the movie. This is a little bit of a spoiler, so you could fast forward 30 seconds if you want, but the character is very basically loses his memory every night. And what he does is he lies to himself during the day so that he will believe the lies the next day so. So that he can do horrific things in a conscientious way. And so this memento memory is where Trump is now. Anything negative, he shuts out and disappears. Anything he wants to hear, he enhances. And that's why you get this insanity, this real time. We just destroyed 100% of their military except their drones, their bombs, their missiles and their soldiers. It's like, did you even think about this when you put this paragraph? But that's what happens when you're operating it. He's operating at continuous cognitive dissonance on a daily basis. We see it represented as public statements. We see it in his truths. But I'd been hearing about this for months from high ranking Trump administration officials that he was literally losing it, that you couldn't share any negative information. And the problem is, that's when you read the story of the King Lears going mad. That sort of literary tradition represents a historical tradition, which is of people that, you know, the may have at one time been very good, noble leaders, but at some point lose it. The reality is Trump has been losing it. And the. I mean, I, you know, I'm half kidding, but I'm literally only half kidding. We're like, lock him up in the White House movie room. Show him just movies of how awesome he is and how great he is and people cheering him all the time and just let him stay there and somebody else run. J.D. vance, run the country.
- [37:18]
B
Yeah, I mean, that would be great if we could figure out a way to make that happen. The fact that in the middle of all this, somehow the President found time to write this thing for Mark Levin, who had been attacked by Megyn Kelly. Not unprovoked, obviously. He'd been attacking Megyn Kelly over and over and over, consistently and viciously, day, week and month after month, and she finally just had it. And you know what I think was a bit vulgar in her response, but I can't say I don't sympathize with her. And obviously, Levin goes crying to Trump and Trump obliges him instead of saying, grow up, you're an old man, for heaven's sake. You're a granddad. You know, who cares if somebody on social media is calling you a name? But no, he interviewed. Why? Because Levin's a flatterer. Levin understands that if you want to appeal to this man, it's through flattery and it's through implied threats, like putting your arm around him, telling him how great he is, but he's great because he's done these particular things and then posting on Twitter that I know the President would never give in and just negotiate on this, because what is there to negotiate? I know, which means I'm ready to jump ship the second this guy doesn't do exactly what I want. It's incredible that you would want a friend like that, because that's not really a friend.
- [38:37]
A
Oh, not at all. I mean, Mark Levin, for those people who may not remember, was so inevitable. Trump, he refused to vote for him in 2016, the general election. So that's who Mark Levin is. But you're right. This is what a high ranking Trump official told me two months ago. They said, Barnes, Trump only respects sycophants and killers. And he goes, the problem is he no longer wants the killers around. What does that mean? All he gets is flatterers and sycophants. Now, J.D. vance, he can't remove because he's vice president, he's elected official. So Vance can be more direct and blunt, but whenever Trump doesn't like what he says, he just starts systematically excluding JD Starts stripping him of different power and authority. Vance was supposed to be in charge of the fraud prosecutions and a new overlapping fraud assistant Attorney General position. And because Vance was constantly being critical of the Iran war idea all the way back to January, Trump stripped him of it and gave that power back to the Justice Department. And now Vance's role is purely ceremonial, purely a press role. And I've told people the only way you're going to get through to Trump is to get right up in front of him and smack him in the face. The reality is the only, really, the only way you're going to get negative information to him is not going the sycophant route, but by being the killer route. And Trump, you know, the. Despite his. He'll protest, he'll whine, he'll squeal, he'll complain, he'll throw a temper tantrum, but it will get through to him and at some point, unconsciously starts to move him, even if he doesn't want to be moved. And then the sycophantic thing is you plant the idea as if it was his idea. That's why I love Tim Dillon's early routine. This past podcast where Dylan was explaining, you know, maybe the new Iranian leader, despite the Supreme Leader, despite having his father, his mother, his wife and his young daughter just murdered, maybe he'll be really good because we don't know what his family relations were like. That was Dylan's joke. But he progressed with. He goes, I'm for anything that will convince this president to get out. Tell him whatever lie you need to tell him, tell him whatever fan you know, whatever it is, anything that gets us out, you're a huge winner, Mr. President. You did something, nothing nobody else could ever do. But the only way you can guarantee this win is you got to get us out now, because otherwise they'll say you've lost if you're still there in a week. So I'll give Dylan credit for that. But Trump is losing his mind. He really is losing his mind. And it's an ongoing risk. His modus operandi, the way he approaches the. I mean, I'll give an example the other way in which they're enforcing this and this connects to Tucker and what's happening with Trump. They went to a bunch of Republican pollsters a month ago and said, if you want to get any contract from any PAC connected at all to the Trump cause of the Republican Party, you are not going to publish or print any polls that show Trump badly underwater or negative, any negative information on either the Epstein files or the Iran war. And the very prominently, Mark Mitchell of Rasmussen suddenly disappeared from social media around that time frame. And all of a sudden, Rasmussen started printing polls. It made no sense. Mark Mitchell wasn't there doing those polls. By all appearances, people like Richard Barris were like, screw you. I'm going to be an honest pollster. I'm not going to be intimidated by anybody.
- [41:28]
B
By the way, I would love to get him on. If there's some way I could do that, I would love to get.
- [41:32]
A
Oh, yeah, yeah, I'll put you in touch. Rich is, you know, he's like maybe five foot eight, but he's somebody who could take down somebody who's six foot ten. You know, the.
- [41:39]
B
Okay, well, I'm only five foot six, so this, I'm not even in the picture.
- [41:43]
A
But, you know, he served in our military. Great guy. People's pundit. Big data poll, does all kinds of detailed polling. 1776 Law center recently did a nationwide survey to feed to everybody that's running for office or in office on all these popular populist policies that just re empower people away from the government, whether it's food freedom or medical freedom, political freedom, financial freedom. Being able to take on these centralized institutions of big ag, big pharma, big tech and big media. But he was the only one to refuse insider advantage. Went along, Trafalgar went along. And so what happens? They start feeding fake polls to the President. It starts being this circle not only of circular logic, but a circle of bad intel and information. And then it's being reinforced by all the conservative influencers are secretly on Israeli payroll or have been intimidated or have been captured by their audience because they've been flooding. I mean, you've probably seen this on X. I've been getting even that fake Shah of Iran, the son of the former Shah of Iran, he showed up in my response and replies, you can't do a poll now on X that's honest anymore. It'll be honest for about an hour and then after that the bots flood it and suddenly, oh, everybody loves war. Everybody wants this Everybody loves the fake Shaw. So they've been using the bot armies, they've been using social media, they're raiding people's YouTube chats, rumble chats, et cetera. These accounts you've never seen before from names you've never seen before making crazy allegations or accusations. The moment you say anything critical of the war or the Epstein file handling or President Trump or of Israel's policies and politics, I mean, Israel just allowed one of the worst war crimes in the modern era. Let them all walk. A bunch of Israeli soldiers were systematically raping and abusing Palestinian detainees caught on tape doing so. The Israeli whistleblower blew the whistle. An Israeli doctor was the main testifying witness, and they dropped the whole case. And Bibi Netanyahu went out there and said, or at least his ex account said, we're not sure where Bibi is these days, but said, it's a blood libel to point out these are morally legally horrific things that these soldiers did. And they did it in the name of Israel. And then a bunch of the Israeli public cheered it because they've kind of lost, you know. Well, you lived through it. We both lived. It's post 911 madness, right, where people are like, it's okay. What's happening in Abu Ghrab, it's okay. What's happening in Guantanamo, it's okay. We're renditioning likely innocent people to hell holes all around the world because they became so morally degraded. They looked into the abyss and the abyss stared back, and they became the monster they sought to destroy. And I think there's part of that going on in the Israeli public. So now particularly was not the time to have Bibi Netanyahu drag us around the nose to any conflict around the world. But anybody who points it out is going to get attacked, going to be demonized, going to be. So, I mean, the other thing they did, these are pollsters, they told these posters, if you keep being publicly critical of President Trump on these particular issues, ran or Epstein files, then Pam Bondi is going to use the Justice Department to come after you. I know because I was getting calls, panic calls from them afterward, hey, Barnes, will you represent me if this actually happens? So that tells you the level of insanity. You're talking like Nixon walking around, looking at, you know, talking to the paintings as if they're real. 1974, in terms of where Trump's mindset is and the entire kleptocratic, corrupt Israel first class that has surrounded him in positions of political power are so eager to line their own pockets with all this that they keep Trump in denial as to the political and in, in everyday military reality, you see Heg death out there just pitching. Oh, we have complete air superiority, but why haven't we hit anything in eastern Iran then yet? These are. Oh, oh, nobody. Our plane just magically fell from the sky. Oh, not that Iranian weapons took him down, which has, by the way, happened multiple times, as Larry Johnson has confirmed, the former CIA analyst who still has deep ties and connections throughout the military intelligence world. So unfortunately, it's going to get more dangerous rather than less. But don't be surprised if you're seeing, you know, you know, bot backed accounts suddenly surge out of the blue, weird attacks out of the blue, efforts to demonize, smear, censor anybody who voices any dissident information at all about the war, the conflict. We've already seen lots of it. And it's going to get worse before it gets better.
- [45:49]
B
Hey everybody. Tom woods here with a quick tip for small business owners. If your business isn't showing up online, your competitors are getting the leads and, and you're missing out. That's where Persist SEO comes in. For over 15 years, they've been helping local businesses grow through SEO, paid ads, and the latest in AI powered search optimization so you stay visible and competitive in the digital age. Whether you're in home services, legal or healthcare, Persist SEO delivers real results without locking you into long term contracts or overwhelming you with tech jargon. Visit Ineedseo Help or call 770-580-3736 to schedule your free consultation. That's Ineedseo Help. Easy to remember, powerful for your small business. Well, last thing and then I'll let you go. This is an area where you and I are very interested in the subject, but we're not experts and that is just sheer political analysis. I just, I guess I want to ask you, in 2028, I think a lot of people just assumed that it would just be natural that J.D. vance would be the clear standard bearer. And if you were going to run in the Republican primary, you would know that you were facing a huge, huge uphill climb. But all of this going on, as you have strongly suggested here, at the very least complicates that scenario. We also have the neocons pushing for Rubio. Rubio as the nominee would be the ultimate way of saying we've learned nothing. We learn not a thing in our entire adult lives. We want Marco Rubio. But I guess my question is it's not a. I don't know if it's a should question or it's a do you expect question. There to be somebody on that debate stage who will represent this America first wing of the movement, the one that they're pretending never existed. You just misinterpreted us. You don't know what you're talking about or you're a Nazi or whatever. Oh, that whole thing. Somebody like a Thomas Massie, who I don't know if he's, you know, a great presidential candidate or not, I guess we'd have to see or even a Tucker Carlson himself if he would dare risk that. Do you think that would be good and. Or do you expect something like that to happen?
- [47:55]
A
The thing I'm most curious about is not so much the primary competition, but the surge of independent or third party options. So because if Republicans nominated Rubio and Democrats nominate another neoliberal war whore, then I think we can see, you know, you generally, the UK tends to run in parallel with US political trends wise. So you go all the way back. You could say, you know, the Churchill getting thrown out is like the Democrats getting thrown out in 1946. You know, the Harold Wilson was very much a Jimmy Carter type in the 1970s. Margaret Thatcher previewed Ronald Reagan surge our election 79 his in 80. You know, John Major was a lot like Poppy Bush. You know, Tony Blair was a lot like Bill Clinton and Barack Obama. The Tory establishment was a lot like the Republican House and Senate establishment in the 2000 teens. UK voting for Brexit very much presaged and previewed Trump's election in 2016. But what do you see right now in the UK the three dominant parties for more than a century, Labor, Tories and Liberal Democrats, are by most public opinion surveys expected to not even meaningfully exist after the next parliamentary elections. They're going to be replaced by the Greens on the left and reform any and some other populist parties on the right for the first time in modern uk, well over a century of UK history. So that suggests to me that we may be in the same position we were in say 1828 or 1860, where you have a whole new party suddenly surge out of the blue, out of the ashes of a dead political establishment. And I think what I'm most in we already tested at 1776 Law center amongst voters who recognize the name Thomas Massie is getting close to 20% of the vote as an independent third party candidate in 2028 already. And that's what half the country not even knowing who he is. That's the appetite for an independent third party challenge. Somebody who will break this two party duopoly. I think you will see and I think the most likely candidates because of America's tough ballot access laws. I've litigated that for 25 years. For various independent third party candidates. The easiest way to do it would be for the left to join the Greens and elevate them and for the left populist on that side and the right populace to take over and the anti war crowd to take over, the libertarians. The key is whether that can happen. I mean you've been part of those inside battles. So there's a bunch of us working together right now that are on that populist side that want to really reinvigorate the anti war, anti banking establishment, anti Federal Reserve, these anti Wall street concentration of power, all of these institutions that are degrading America's constitutional republic and are an imminent threat to that constitutional republic. Real accountability on Covid and deep state, other aspects that I think that's what you may see. It may happen much faster than anybody could think possible. So I think 2028 is going to bring some revolutionary changes or be the beginning tremors of a political earthquake that five, 10 years from now, Republican and Democratic parties may not even exist in their modern form.
- [51:00]
B
I guess I misled you when I said the last thing. I want to give you a minute or two to talk about the 1776 Law Center.
- [51:06]
A
Oh yeah, absolutely. So I helped co found organization meant to be kind of a counterpoint to the aclus of the world and the corporate establishment types. So 1776 Law center, you can find it 1776 Law. LawCenter.com is designed to defend people in both the court of public opinion and get lawyers and advocates to represent people in the courts of law on issues of public policy, on issues where their cases or causes are have a broader importance than them and where they do not have the economic means or political patronage to be able to get the attention of the court of public opinion or effective advocacy in court. So this includes food freedom. We represent Amos Miller and a bunch of Amish farmers who are, you know, trying to state your right to buy food directly from the farmer without getting a government permission slip in advance. We've been promoting these ideas at the state, local and federal level in terms of actual policy changes and reforms as well. Medical freedom is another big one. Representing people who were wrongfully mandated the COVID vaccine, who were discriminated against for religious and other reasons related to their objections to the COVID vaccines. To trying to establish the precedent that Big Pharma should be held liable when their vaccines cause injury, that nobody should be immune or above the law in that context. So a wide range of issues connected to medical freedom on political freedom, this is opposing censorship, opposing everything connected to censorship, whether it's related to some dumb war or some bad policy like Covid and advocating for a range of clients in that context, but also public advocacy changes and then financial freedom, advocating for, you know, unleashing bitcoin, auditing the Federal Reserve, not allowing banks to discriminate against people based on their political beliefs when these are politically protected utilities privileged at a major level by state and federal governments, particularly the federal government. So reinstating all form, you know, having true free market enterprise so there isn't these big antitrust monopolies that are anti competitive and strip us of our free market liberties and rights. So we recommend we represent all those different constituencies, everybody from Kyle Rittenhouse to the Covington kids, from Alex Jones to Amos Miller. So you can support it. We're doing a big fundraiser up at the we're going to do an Amish outing where people can come down to Amos Miller's farm, enjoy the food, have a picnic, see the farm, meet the family, go on a little buggy rides. All that jazz on my birthday is a fundraiser for 1776 Law Center. But you get all that information at 1776 Law Center.
- [53:30]
B
All right, 1776 law center.com I'll have it linked@tom woods.com 200744 Robert Barnes. Glad to be in whatever this crazy fight is together with you. Didn't think we'd have to. We thought we won this fight. Didn't think we'd have to keep fighting it over again against the very people we thought had won it with us. But here we are. Thanks so much, Robert.
- [53:51]
A
Absolutely glad to be here and thank
- [53:53]
B
you, ladies and gentlemen.
- [53:56]
A
Make yourself and those you love less vulnerable to the regime, both mentally and phys. Get more forbidden information@tomsfreebooks.com and be sure to subscribe to the show wherever you listen. See you next time.
- [54:17]
B
Like the sound of the Tom Woods Show. My audio production is provided by Podsworth Media. Check them out@podsworth.com Enter code WOODS50 to get 50% off your first order. If your recording sounds rough, the Podsworth app can make it not only listenable, but professional. Remember, when you use code WOODS50, you'll get half off your first order and you'll also be supporting this show.
- [54:43]
C
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