The Tom Woods Show Episode 2749: "Israeli Interests and U.S. Interests Aren’t the Same"

Release Date: April 4, 2026
Host: Tom Woods
Guest: Scott Horton

Episode Overview

This episode of The Tom Woods Show delves into the differences and tensions between U.S. and Israeli interests in the Middle East, with special attention to the contemporary Iran conflict. Tom Woods invites Scott Horton, director of both the Libertarian Institute and Scott Horton Academy, to unpack the historic and current divergence between U.S. and Israeli policy goals, the impact of U.S. domestic politics (especially Christian Zionism) on foreign policy, and the broader consequences for regional and global stability.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Origins and Evolution of U.S.-Israel Relations

[01:21–03:15] Tom establishes that the U.S.-Israel "special relationship" did not start fully formed in 1948, despite America’s early recognition of Israel. The unresolved Palestinian refugee crisis prompted even Harry Truman to urge caution.
- Quote:
  “If you look at State Department statements at the time, they are warning that the United States is going to attract whatever enemies Israel attracts as a result of this unresolved refugee problem.” – Tom Woods ([02:00])

2. Israeli vs. American Interests in the Middle East

[03:15–11:39]
- Scott Horton: Israel, led by nationalist Likud Party, aims for territorial expansion ("Greater Israel") and the displacement of Palestinians—ranging from "voluntary" emigration to outright ethnic cleansing.
- Broader maximalist plans, as referenced by political and religious Zionists, include parts of Lebanon, Syria, and even Jordan and western Iraq.
  - Quote:
    “That means... the absolute horrific persecution of the Palestinians whose land they've already stolen and are in the process of stealing the rest of... so that they can finally be cleansed.” – Scott Horton ([03:44])
In contrast, the American national interest is peace, commerce, free trade, honest friendship—while the ‘imperial’ American interest is regional dominance to control oil and strategic assets, particularly vis-à-vis Russia and China.
- Quote:
  “Our interest is just in peace and commerce and free trade throughout the world... Honest friendship with everybody. That's the American people's interest. But even the American empire's interest is in dominating the nations of the region, keeping compliant puppets in there and controlling the choke points.” – Scott Horton ([05:58])
U.S. policymakers have historically sought to manage the Israeli-Palestinian conflict more pragmatically, promoting a two-state solution post-Cold War, often in opposition to Israeli lobbying efforts.

3. Pressure from the Israel Lobby and U.S. Politics

[07:55–13:03]
- Scott highlights repeated pushback against U.S. efforts to limit Israeli settlements or promote Palestinian autonomy.
- Powerful lobbying, media influence, and Christian Zionist support often pressured presidents (e.g., HW Bush, Clinton, W. Bush) away from policies diverging from Israeli priorities.
  - Memorable Moment:
    James Baker, Bush’s Secretary of State, infamously quipped “f--- the Jews, they don't vote for us anyway”—but as Scott notes, “they do write checks and... control MTV and the entire Rock the Vote movement, dude.” ([08:38])
Evangelical Christian Zionism is an important but shrinking political factor in U.S. support for the Israeli agenda.

4. American Christian Zionism and Prophecy Politics

[13:03–17:16]
- Tom & Scott debate whether America’s support for Israel is genuinely in America’s interest or the outcome of specific domestic interest groups (notably Christian Zionists).
- Scott: The once-dominant belief that American policy should hasten biblical prophecy (the Rapture) is fading, especially among younger Christians.
  - Quote:
    “Now it's a vanishingly small number of American Christians who believe... that it's nothing like the majority will of the population of this country. And frankly, it's completely stupid, ridiculous, idiotic superstitions...” – Scott Horton ([15:19])

5. “Islamic Fundamentalism” and Manufactured Common Cause

[17:16–21:25]
- Post–Cold War, Israel recast itself as America’s key regional ally against “Islamic fundamentalism”—a narrative consciously manufactured (“public relations”) to maintain U.S. support.
- Scott argues this entailed demonizing Iran and the wider Muslim world—in service of expansionist goals.

6. U.S. Support for Israel as a Driver of Terrorism

[21:25–24:32]
- U.S. actions supporting Israel (blockades, wars, support for expansionism) cited as motivators for anti-American terrorism, as acknowledged by figures like Netanyahu and evidenced in bin Laden’s initial fatwas.
  - Quote:
    “It was Netanyahu musing to himself, I wonder if the Americans will blame us for this. No, he decides, I'm sure it won’t. It'll just, you know, strengthen solidarity and sympathy between us...” – Scott Horton ([19:16])
- Historical Example: Ron Paul’s “Giuliani moment” in 2007, where he persuasively linked U.S. intervention and terrorism, squares with Scott’s analysis.

7. Divergence Over Iran Policy: War or Peace?

[24:32–41:50]
- Contemporary debate: Is Iran the U.S.’s enemy because of Israel or for its own reasons?
- Scott: The enmity dates back to the U.S. 1953 coup, American support for the Shah, and later, brutal U.S.-backed wars waged by Iraq against Iran. Attempts to normalize relations have repeatedly been vetoed by the Israel lobby.
  - Quote:
    “It was the Israelis who said that we can't [normalize]. And so, in the broadest strokes, America's interest would be in keeping the Bin Ladenites down and keeping the oil flowing. Where the Israelis' position is actually they need the Bin Ladenites because the Bin Ladenites kill Hezbollah and they hate the Shiites more.” – Scott Horton ([34:52])
- Dinesh D’Souza is cited as finally recognizing a clear divergence: The U.S. should not pursue a ground invasion of Iran simply to serve Israeli interests ([25:30]).

8. U.S. (and Israeli) Calculations and the Possibility of Escalation

[41:50–44:22]
- Israeli interests in prolonging conflict: Israel benefits strategically by having the U.S. entangled in a protracted war of erosion against Iran, regardless of U.S. cost in lives and money.
  - Quote:
    “Their interest is just in whatever erosion of the regime can be carried out by the US being present there is a good thing, even if it’s an impossible slog for the US... but it's not Israel's problem.” – Tom Woods ([41:41])
- Fantasies of U.S. special forces seizing Iranian nuclear materials (Isfahan) lampooned by Scott as militarily fantastical and politically counterproductive.

9. Internal Israeli Apprehension and War Resistance

[44:22–46:54]
- Signs of discomfort within Israel’s own political and military elite: anti-war protests (met with repression), concerns about missile defense capacity, and hesitation over open-ended conflict.
- High-level leaks suggested Israel needed time to prepare defenses before war, possibly even asking the U.S. to delay action.
  - Quote:
    “Netanyahu actually urged Trump to wait when he wanted to start the war a little bit earlier... because they wanted to get their defensive systems together a little bit better first, which is kind of funny...” – Scott Horton ([44:44])

Notable Quotes

“The Israelis... mean to continually expand their borders. And that means... the absolute horrific persecution of the Palestinians whose land they've already stolen and are in the process of stealing the rest of.”
– Scott Horton ([03:44])
“Our interest is just in peace and commerce and free trade… But even the American empire's interest is in dominating the nations of the region, keeping compliant puppets in there and controlling the choke points.”
– Scott Horton ([05:58])
“It was Netanyahu musing to himself, I wonder if the Americans will blame us for this [9/11]. No, he decides, I'm sure it won’t. It'll just... strengthen solidarity and sympathy between us.”
– Scott Horton ([19:16])
“...Israel’s policy... was to seek to simply be the regional hedgeman, completely dominant in military power so that nobody even can mess with us.”
– Scott Horton ([36:15])
“It was the Israelis who said that we can't [normalize]. America's interest would be... keeping Bin Ladenites down and the oil flowing. Where the Israelis’ position is actually they need the Bin Ladenites...”
– Scott Horton ([34:52])

Timestamps for Important Segments

01:21 – How the U.S.-Israel relationship began
03:15 – Divergence of Israeli and American interests: Expansion vs. peace
07:55 – Israel lobby pressures on U.S. presidents
13:03 – Is Christian Zionism really the "American interest"?
17:16 – "Islamic fundamentalism" and strategic PR
21:25 – U.S. support for Israel as terrorism trigger
24:32 – The Iran war: Propaganda & divergence
25:59 – Is war with Iran really “America First”?
34:45 – U.S. policy sabotaged by Israeli priorities
41:50 – Israeli vs. U.S. costs in prolonging conflict
44:22 – Israeli reluctance, logistical and public resistance to war

Conclusion

Scott Horton persuasively argues that Israeli and U.S. interests have fundamentally diverged—Israel’s maximalist strategies center on territorial expansion, ethnic cleansing, and regional military dominance, while America’s core interests lie in free commerce, stability, and (at worst) hegemonic management of global choke points. Throughout recent history, Scott contends, the U.S. has repeatedly acted against its own best interests, driven by domestic lobbies and ideological pressure, particularly where Israel is involved. The episode concludes with a warning against further entanglement in wars engineered to serve foreign (Israeli) ambitions at continued American expense.

Additional Resources

Recommended for listeners seeking a sharply critical, non-mainstream view of US-Israel relations and Middle East policy.

The Tom Woods Show Episode 2749: "Israeli Interests and U.S. Interests Aren’t the Same"

Release Date: April 4, 2026
Host: Tom Woods
Guest: Scott Horton

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Origins and Evolution of U.S.-Israel Relations

[01:21–03:15] Tom establishes that the U.S.-Israel "special relationship" did not start fully formed in 1948, despite America’s early recognition of Israel. The unresolved Palestinian refugee crisis prompted even Harry Truman to urge caution.
- Quote:
  “If you look at State Department statements at the time, they are warning that the United States is going to attract whatever enemies Israel attracts as a result of this unresolved refugee problem.” – Tom Woods ([02:00])

2. Israeli vs. American Interests in the Middle East

[03:15–11:39]
- Scott Horton: Israel, led by nationalist Likud Party, aims for territorial expansion ("Greater Israel") and the displacement of Palestinians—ranging from "voluntary" emigration to outright ethnic cleansing.
- Broader maximalist plans, as referenced by political and religious Zionists, include parts of Lebanon, Syria, and even Jordan and western Iraq.
  - Quote:
    “That means... the absolute horrific persecution of the Palestinians whose land they've already stolen and are in the process of stealing the rest of... so that they can finally be cleansed.” – Scott Horton ([03:44])
In contrast, the American national interest is peace, commerce, free trade, honest friendship—while the ‘imperial’ American interest is regional dominance to control oil and strategic assets, particularly vis-à-vis Russia and China.
- Quote:
  “Our interest is just in peace and commerce and free trade throughout the world... Honest friendship with everybody. That's the American people's interest. But even the American empire's interest is in dominating the nations of the region, keeping compliant puppets in there and controlling the choke points.” – Scott Horton ([05:58])
U.S. policymakers have historically sought to manage the Israeli-Palestinian conflict more pragmatically, promoting a two-state solution post-Cold War, often in opposition to Israeli lobbying efforts.

3. Pressure from the Israel Lobby and U.S. Politics

[07:55–13:03]
- Scott highlights repeated pushback against U.S. efforts to limit Israeli settlements or promote Palestinian autonomy.
- Powerful lobbying, media influence, and Christian Zionist support often pressured presidents (e.g., HW Bush, Clinton, W. Bush) away from policies diverging from Israeli priorities.
  - Memorable Moment:
    James Baker, Bush’s Secretary of State, infamously quipped “f--- the Jews, they don't vote for us anyway”—but as Scott notes, “they do write checks and... control MTV and the entire Rock the Vote movement, dude.” ([08:38])
Evangelical Christian Zionism is an important but shrinking political factor in U.S. support for the Israeli agenda.

4. American Christian Zionism and Prophecy Politics

[13:03–17:16]
- Tom & Scott debate whether America’s support for Israel is genuinely in America’s interest or the outcome of specific domestic interest groups (notably Christian Zionists).
- Scott: The once-dominant belief that American policy should hasten biblical prophecy (the Rapture) is fading, especially among younger Christians.
  - Quote:
    “Now it's a vanishingly small number of American Christians who believe... that it's nothing like the majority will of the population of this country. And frankly, it's completely stupid, ridiculous, idiotic superstitions...” – Scott Horton ([15:19])

5. “Islamic Fundamentalism” and Manufactured Common Cause

[17:16–21:25]
- Post–Cold War, Israel recast itself as America’s key regional ally against “Islamic fundamentalism”—a narrative consciously manufactured (“public relations”) to maintain U.S. support.
- Scott argues this entailed demonizing Iran and the wider Muslim world—in service of expansionist goals.

6. U.S. Support for Israel as a Driver of Terrorism

[21:25–24:32]
- U.S. actions supporting Israel (blockades, wars, support for expansionism) cited as motivators for anti-American terrorism, as acknowledged by figures like Netanyahu and evidenced in bin Laden’s initial fatwas.
  - Quote:
    “It was Netanyahu musing to himself, I wonder if the Americans will blame us for this. No, he decides, I'm sure it won’t. It'll just, you know, strengthen solidarity and sympathy between us...” – Scott Horton ([19:16])
- Historical Example: Ron Paul’s “Giuliani moment” in 2007, where he persuasively linked U.S. intervention and terrorism, squares with Scott’s analysis.

7. Divergence Over Iran Policy: War or Peace?

[24:32–41:50]
- Contemporary debate: Is Iran the U.S.’s enemy because of Israel or for its own reasons?
- Scott: The enmity dates back to the U.S. 1953 coup, American support for the Shah, and later, brutal U.S.-backed wars waged by Iraq against Iran. Attempts to normalize relations have repeatedly been vetoed by the Israel lobby.
  - Quote:
    “It was the Israelis who said that we can't [normalize]. And so, in the broadest strokes, America's interest would be in keeping the Bin Ladenites down and keeping the oil flowing. Where the Israelis' position is actually they need the Bin Ladenites because the Bin Ladenites kill Hezbollah and they hate the Shiites more.” – Scott Horton ([34:52])
- Dinesh D’Souza is cited as finally recognizing a clear divergence: The U.S. should not pursue a ground invasion of Iran simply to serve Israeli interests ([25:30]).

8. U.S. (and Israeli) Calculations and the Possibility of Escalation

[41:50–44:22]
- Israeli interests in prolonging conflict: Israel benefits strategically by having the U.S. entangled in a protracted war of erosion against Iran, regardless of U.S. cost in lives and money.
  - Quote:
    “Their interest is just in whatever erosion of the regime can be carried out by the US being present there is a good thing, even if it’s an impossible slog for the US... but it's not Israel's problem.” – Tom Woods ([41:41])
- Fantasies of U.S. special forces seizing Iranian nuclear materials (Isfahan) lampooned by Scott as militarily fantastical and politically counterproductive.

9. Internal Israeli Apprehension and War Resistance

[44:22–46:54]
- Signs of discomfort within Israel’s own political and military elite: anti-war protests (met with repression), concerns about missile defense capacity, and hesitation over open-ended conflict.
- High-level leaks suggested Israel needed time to prepare defenses before war, possibly even asking the U.S. to delay action.
  - Quote:
    “Netanyahu actually urged Trump to wait when he wanted to start the war a little bit earlier... because they wanted to get their defensive systems together a little bit better first, which is kind of funny...” – Scott Horton ([44:44])

Notable Quotes

“The Israelis... mean to continually expand their borders. And that means... the absolute horrific persecution of the Palestinians whose land they've already stolen and are in the process of stealing the rest of.”
– Scott Horton ([03:44])
“Our interest is just in peace and commerce and free trade… But even the American empire's interest is in dominating the nations of the region, keeping compliant puppets in there and controlling the choke points.”
– Scott Horton ([05:58])
“It was Netanyahu musing to himself, I wonder if the Americans will blame us for this [9/11]. No, he decides, I'm sure it won’t. It'll just... strengthen solidarity and sympathy between us.”
– Scott Horton ([19:16])
“...Israel’s policy... was to seek to simply be the regional hedgeman, completely dominant in military power so that nobody even can mess with us.”
– Scott Horton ([36:15])
“It was the Israelis who said that we can't [normalize]. America's interest would be... keeping Bin Ladenites down and the oil flowing. Where the Israelis’ position is actually they need the Bin Ladenites...”
– Scott Horton ([34:52])

Timestamps for Important Segments

01:21 – How the U.S.-Israel relationship began
03:15 – Divergence of Israeli and American interests: Expansion vs. peace
07:55 – Israel lobby pressures on U.S. presidents
13:03 – Is Christian Zionism really the "American interest"?
17:16 – "Islamic fundamentalism" and strategic PR
21:25 – U.S. support for Israel as terrorism trigger
24:32 – The Iran war: Propaganda & divergence
25:59 – Is war with Iran really “America First”?
34:45 – U.S. policy sabotaged by Israeli priorities
41:50 – Israeli vs. U.S. costs in prolonging conflict
44:22 – Israeli reluctance, logistical and public resistance to war

Conclusion

Additional Resources

Recommended for listeners seeking a sharply critical, non-mainstream view of US-Israel relations and Middle East policy.

wavePod

Ep. 2749 Israeli Interests and U.S. Interests Aren't the Same

Summary

The Tom Woods Show Episode 2749: "Israeli Interests and U.S. Interests Aren’t the Same"

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Origins and Evolution of U.S.-Israel Relations

2. Israeli vs. American Interests in the Middle East

3. Pressure from the Israel Lobby and U.S. Politics

4. American Christian Zionism and Prophecy Politics

5. “Islamic Fundamentalism” and Manufactured Common Cause

6. U.S. Support for Israel as a Driver of Terrorism

7. Divergence Over Iran Policy: War or Peace?

8. U.S. (and Israeli) Calculations and the Possibility of Escalation

9. Internal Israeli Apprehension and War Resistance

Notable Quotes

Timestamps for Important Segments

Conclusion

Additional Resources

Summary

The Tom Woods Show Episode 2749: "Israeli Interests and U.S. Interests Aren’t the Same"

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Origins and Evolution of U.S.-Israel Relations

2. Israeli vs. American Interests in the Middle East

3. Pressure from the Israel Lobby and U.S. Politics

4. American Christian Zionism and Prophecy Politics

5. “Islamic Fundamentalism” and Manufactured Common Cause

6. U.S. Support for Israel as a Driver of Terrorism

7. Divergence Over Iran Policy: War or Peace?

8. U.S. (and Israeli) Calculations and the Possibility of Escalation

9. Internal Israeli Apprehension and War Resistance

Notable Quotes

Timestamps for Important Segments

Conclusion

Additional Resources