“A complicated handshake”

Summary

"A Complicated Handshake"

The Tony Kornheiser Show | October 24, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Tony Kornheiser dives into a jam-packed show featuring:

• A nostalgic World Series preview with MLB insider Tim Kurkjian
• NFL analysis and picks with Jason La Canfora
• College and pro football picks with James Carville and Jeff Ma
• An in-depth discussion with Jeff Ma on the emergent NBA gambling scandal involving players and coaches
  The episode weaves through sports history, humor, and the rapid pace of current events, maintaining the familiar, conversational, and self-deprecating tone Tony is known for.

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[00:48-15:18] World Series Preview & Baseball Banter with Tim Kurkjian

Key Topics & Insights

• 1979 World Series Memories

  • Tony and Tim reminisce about the "We Are Family" Pirates, the Orioles’ loss, and legendary characters like Willie Stargell.
  • Tim shares how emotionally significant Stargell was for Pittsburgh:

    "The second I arrived at the ballpark, got out of the cab, the news broke that Willie Stargell had died. And it was just so sad because that's how important a figure he was in Pirates history." (03:05 – Tim Kurkjian)

• Pittsburgh Pirates Legends

  • Clemente, Stargell, Mazeroski, and Hannes Wagner are discussed in their historical context.

• Three Concerts in Tim’s Life

  • Tim hilariously details his only three concert experiences:
    • Dan Fogelberg in college (“a disaster”),
    • Yellowcard with his daughter (“a disaster—concert started at 10:30pm on a school night”),
    • Kenny Chesney at Syracuse before dropping his daughter off at college.
  • On modern music references:

    “I had to drop out of that discussion since I had virtually no idea who he was. It was like the day I met Pitbull at the 2016 All Star Game in Miami...Thank God he didn't ask what my favorite song of his was. I didn't even know who he was. This complicated handshake. It was just awful.” (05:49 – Tim Kurkjian)

• World Series Analysis

  • Discussion on the five-day wait before the World Series ("Rest vs Rust")

    “This is a daily game. It's played best when it's played daily… I think it's too much time off, and I think we lose a little momentum from the playoffs.” (06:57 – Tim Kurkjian)

  • Game 1 Matchup:
    • Blake Snell (Dodgers) vs. Trey Savage (Toronto Blue Jays)
    • Snell’s dominance and experience get the edge, but Tim praises Yu Savage's poise and performance as a rookie.

      “He is absolutely as tremendous poise. He's got the presence of Gaylord Perry on the mound and he's 22 years old.” (08:42 – Tim Kurkjian)

• Series Advantages

  • Blue Jays: Home field, best team defense, superior contact hitting and run production
    • “They put it in play better than anyone. They hit .296 as a team in the postseason; the rest hit .218.” (10:16 – Tim Kurkjian)
  • Dodgers: Historically dominant pitching
    • “The opponents have hit .132 against the Dodgers starters this postseason. It is one of the great runs we've ever seen.” (10:52 – Tim Kurkjian)

• Predictions and Pitcher Appearances

  • Tim picks Dodgers in 7, but sees the Blue Jays as underrated, especially defensively.
  • On Scherzer and Kershaw:

    “Max Scherzer will start in this Series. Clayton Kershaw will not, but he will pitch in this series.” (13:06 – Tim Kurkjian)

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[15:18-33:23] NFL Recap & Analysis with Jason La Canfora

Notable Moments

• Fan Reactions to Jason’s Betting Segment

  • Humorous listener emails celebrate Jason's successful picks and the surprise appearance of his hoodie on PTI, immortalized on the Statue of Liberty.
  • “I was so freaking, like elated to see my stupid hoodie on your set. You have no idea.” (18:58 – Jason)

• Thursday Night Football Takeaways

  • The Chargers’ offensive line and recent returns (notably Joe Alt) boost both offense and defense.
  • “Having at least one of their bookend tackles back makes a huge difference.” (23:14 – Jason)

• Team Trends and Coaching Drama

  • Fork in the season for the Vikings; Chargers, Broncos, KC as “viable” AFC West teams.
  • On Broncos’ coaching theatrics:

    “It’s like a WWF promo. Well, you know, Mean Gene, like, it’s a little bit of that.” (24:19 – Jason)

• Dysfunction in Miami

  • Commentary on Tua’s recent press behavior and Mike McDaniel’s coaching status:

    “I think he was daring them to be fired… Stephen Ross is making him own it and wear it.” (25:41 – Jason)

• Falcons & Betting Suggestions

  • Jason favors Atlanta to cover against Miami, expects Bijan Robinson to "go off."

• Baltimore vs. Chicago

  • Jason disagrees with the big spread favoring Baltimore due to Ravens’ injury and question marks; he's on the Chicago +6.5 side.

• 18-game NFL Season News

  • NFL reportedly not expanding to 18 games imminently, but Jason sees expansion as inevitable:

    “I would be stunned if that doesn’t happen...It always felt somewhat inevitable.” (32:14 – Jason)

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[33:23-41:36] Football Picks with James Carville

Key Points

• Carville’s Performance

  • James went 3-2-1 last week, maintains humility but aims to hit over 53.5%.

    “Our aspirational goal is to make the list of the Tony Kornheiser Show, some extra dough, lobster dinner money…” (36:17 – James Carville)

• College Picks

  • Indiana -25 vs UCLA (“UCLA is really bad… Indiana's good”)
  • Buffalo -9.5 vs Akron
  • Tulsa +6 vs Temple (“If you get six against Chapel, you got to take it”)

• NFL Picks

  • Saints +4.5 vs Tampa Bay (“A lot of games fall three, four… Saints at home.”)
  • Jets +7 at Cincinnati (“You're getting seven points. What can I say?”)
  • Steelers vs Packers (“Can't beat that for throwback NFL; people will watch for Rodgers vs. old team.”)

• On Jerry Jones:

  “That guy's the greatest marketer in sports. He doesn't win a lot, but he's always selling.” (40:46 – James)

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[41:36-57:12] Gambling Scandal Breakdown & Picks with Jeff Ma

NBA Gambling Scandal Deep Dive

• High-Stakes Poker & Cheating

  • Tony and Jeff unpack the NBA gambling scandal involving players (Terry Rozier) and coaches (Chauncey Billups).
  • Jeff explains high-stakes poker in private “celebrity” settings is ripe for cheating:

    “If you're going to play a private poker game with people you don't know, you should be buyer beware… This is not a regulated market.” (43:14 – Jeff Ma)

• Technology and Cheating Methods

  • Private game cheating is not new, but the tech described is “Mission Impossible/James Bond”—marking a new level.

• NBA Player Misconduct

  • On Terry Rozier:

    “It's very easy to catch someone… there's an enormous amount of information that goes out there (with legal sports betting)… This is how we catch people.” (46:43 – Jeff Ma)

• Legality and Ethical Lines

  • Difference between "cheating" and "taking advantage of information":

    “There’s no official laws on inside trading in sports betting... You have to draw your own ethical line on what is inside information.” (56:15 – Jeff Ma)

• On Adam Silver’s Next Steps:
  “I would expect at some point Adam Silver to come out from hiding underneath his desk and actually address this personally, wouldn't you?” (49:24 – Tony Kornheiser)

Jeff Ma’s Weekly Picks

NCAA:

• Oklahoma -5.5 vs Ole Miss
• Wisconsin +32 at Oregon
• Indiana -25 vs UCLA

NFL:

• Atlanta -7.5 vs Miami

• Browns +7.5 vs Patriots

• Jeff and Tony also banter about inside information ethics, the lack of true regulatory framework in sports betting, and the difference between “using your brain” (like card counting) versus actual cheating.

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• “I had to drop out of that discussion since I had virtually no idea who he was…It was like the day I met Pitbull...Thank God he didn't ask what my favorite song of his was.” (05:49 – Tim Kurkjian)
• “It's like a WWF promo...I don't really have a problem with it.” (24:19 – Jason La Canfora on Sean Payton-Russell Wilson)
• “I mean, honestly, myself on the back. This show... we're up 85 units. That's no joke. That's documented.” (32:27 – Jason La Canfora on his betting show’s hot streak)

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Notable Timestamps

• 00:48 – Opening World Series memories with Tim Kurkjian
• 03:05 – Kurkjian on Stargell’s legacy & PNC Park story
• 06:57 – Debate over lengthy World Series delays
• 10:16 – Blue Jays’ home advantage and offensive stats
• 18:58 – Jason La Canfora reacts to his merch on PTI
• 23:14 – Chargers analysis: Joe Alt’s impact
• 24:19 – On the Sean Payton drama
• 36:17 – Carville outlines his betting philosophy
• 43:14 – Jeff Ma explains private poker cheating
• 46:43 – Rosier scandal: tracking bets is easier in the legal market
• 56:15 – Jeff Ma on inside information vs. cheating

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Tone & Takeaways

The show balances affectionate nostalgia, Tony’s signature curmudgeon humor, and genuinely sharp sports analysis. The episode stands out for its thorough breakdown of a major NBA scandal and for weaving listener emails and jokes seamlessly into the flow.
The energy remains high throughout, no guest overstays, and Tony’s recurring bits—especially his interplay with Carville and Ma—keep things light, even in the face of breaking legal news.

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Recommended For:
Listeners interested in a deft mix of sports nostalgia, pointed analysis, and sports-betting insight, as well as those eager for thorough, accessible breakdowns of contemporary sports news and scandals.

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Transcript

[Tony Kornheiser]

Hey, it's Tony. We've got a packed show for you today. First, we'll preview the World Series Tim Kirkjen. Then we'll go around the NFL with Jason Locanfora. We'll get our weekly football picks from James Carville and Jeff Ma. Plus, we'll talk with Jeff about the gambling scandal engulfing the NBA right now. But first, commerce.

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[Tony Kornheiser]

Previously on the Tony Kornheiser Show. The last time the brewers were in, Robin Yount was on the team.

[Jeff Ma]

Yeah, the Pirates.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Willie Stargel. Yeah, that was 79. That was the. We are family Pirates that beat the Orioles came back from three one. Yeah. And that was a great World Series. And Willie Stargell having covered that World Series, Willie Stargell would sit there after the game in Baltimore in the Baltimore games and take out a mallet and crack crabs and hold court. And it was, you know, he was a worthy guy.

[Commercial Announcer]

The Tony Kornheiser show is on now.

[Tony Kornheiser]

We are guest loaded today. So we're going to dispense with the regular open. We're going to go straight to our World Series preview with Tim Kirchen. I covered that World Series. I had just arrived at the Washington Post. I got there in July and that was in October. At the time, were you. Were you around covering that one as well? The 79 World Series?

[Tim Kirchen]

I covered one of those games. I was at the Star and so I wasn't on and I was just out of college.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Right.

[Tim Kirchen]

I wasn't exactly on the, the full rotation, but I got to do one game in that series and. And that was it. But it was so great being around it. And no Earl weaver, they're up 3:1. And then when they were up, then it became 3:3. And he told the writers, off the record, I don't have a good feeling about this. And then they ended up losing game seven. And it was a pretty bad. It was a great victory by the Pirates. We are family Pirates, but a bad loss for the Orioles. Yes.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Do you remember Stargill? And I mean, Stargill was. He was almost larger than life. He was one of those guys.

[Tim Kirchen]

Yeah, he. His nickname was Pops, and he was the head of that team. And anybody who knew him recognized that gregarious smile. He was. He was like David, David Ortiz long before he became Big Poppy. Pops was the one of the we are family fame that really got it all started. And he was still a really good, really good player at that time.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Absolutely.

[Tim Kirchen]

They just think he was an older guy who was there because he could show the kids how to play. He was a very productive hitter. And I'll never forget Tony, this is terrible, but the first day I ever went to PNC park, when it opened, a beautiful new park in Pittsburgh, I took a cab in the second I arrived at the ballpark, got out of the cab, the news broke that Willie Stargell had died. And it was just so sad because that's how important a figure he was in Pirates history.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I would say Clemente is one, and maybe Mazeroski and Stargill are tied for two. Is that fair?

[Tim Kirchen]

Well, Hannes Wagner played shortstop. He's the greatest shortstop of all time. He's the greatest Pirate ever. I hate to bring that up.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's okay.

[Tim Kirchen]

Yes, I would go. I would go. Clemente, Stargill, Mazeroski, among the more recent players.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. All right, look, before we start, people have written in, they want to know exactly which three concerts you've gone to in your life. Do you want to set that? You want to set the scene as to why that's important and what happened recently?

[Tim Kirchen]

Well, it's not important, but I went to a Dan Fogelberg concert in college. I had a date that was a disaster. They were all disasters, even though there were only a few of them in college. So that was the first one. Then when my daughter Kelly was in the sixth grade, I went to. I took her and her five friends to Yellow Card had. And in Baltimore, Yellow Card was the name of the. The band. And I was told, yeah, it'll be great. Concert starts at 7:30. Well, they had three play in bands. What are they called before the main Warm up. Warm up acts went on for three hours and yellow card came on at 10:30 at night on a school night. It was a disaster. But I got the kids home safely. Everything turned out. And then the last one was Kenny Chesney at Syracuse University the night before I dropped my daughter off for her freshman year in college. So those are the three concerts That I have been to.

[Tony Kornheiser]

And why did this come up? Did you have something with Eduardo I'm gonna use?

[Tim Kirchen]

No. Yeah, Eduardo had some musical reference, right.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That you didn't get.

[Tim Kirchen]

Shania Twain or something like that. And I didn't get it. And I just jokingly told him, look, don't drop any musical references on me. Been to three concerts in my life.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So I wouldn't, you know, I wouldn't have seen yellow card coming. I wouldn't. I wouldn't have seen you as a yellow card. Back to high school and college.

[Tim Kirchen]

I'm a little confused. With Green Day, I called it GRE Card. I got everything all fouled up.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Well, I do that too, you know, with Big Bunny. And people say it's bad bunny. And I go, no, it's Big Bunny.

[Tim Kirchen]

We had a big Bunny discussion on the air recently, too. And I had to. I had to drop out of that discussion since I had virtually no idea who he was. It was like the day I met Pitbull at the 2016 All Star Game in Miami. And he came up and a friend of mine and Burke pulled Pitbull away and said, your greatest fan is right over here. I met Pitbull. Thank God. He said, I understand you're my greatest fan worldwide. I'm so glad he didn't say, what. What's my. Your favorite song of mine? I didn't even know who he was. This complicated handshake. It was just awful.

[Jason Locke]

I didn't know what to do.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's great. That's great. All right. World Series, finally. We've waited so long for the actual World Series. And you know, the one game seven Dodgers sweep, but then the Seattle and Toronto go seven. And even after that, there's like a five day wait.

[Tim Kirchen]

Why?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Why is it so long? And do you think that will affect play?

[Tim Kirchen]

Well, it has to affect play if you're the Dodgers, because they've been off this long. Okay, Rest versus rust. It's always a big discussion at this time of year. But listen, Tony, I know this is all about tv, but you've got to start these games. It's just too much time in between the Championship Series and the World Series. This is a daily game. It's played best when it's played daily. Now you can rest up some players. Guys need a rest this time of year. The Dodgers can line up all their stuff. And because the Blue Jays won, they can rest up and start Trey Savage in game one as opposed to having to start their third or fourth starter. That's a good Thing, but I think it's too much time off and I think we lose a little momentum from the playoffs when we don't have a game for three nights.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Agree? I agree completely. All right, let's go with tonight. Blake Snell, who had one of the great postseason performances ever the last time he was out there against Trey Savage, who's a rookie, but has done very well certainly in the postseason. Who do you like tonight? This is in Toronto. Who do you like?

[Tim Kirchen]

Yeah, well, you have to like Blake Snell with the way he's thrown. He's got 14 consecutive scoreless innings in the postseason. He's made three starts. He's got an O86 ERA with 28 strikeouts. He struck out at least nine guys in each of his starts. He has an unhittable curveball, slider and change up. He has a great understanding of where he is. He's one of the best pitchers in the game. Tony, this isn't just the postseason. His last 28 starts dating back to last year, he's got an ERA well under 2 in 28 starts.

[Tony Kornheiser]

A lot.

[Tim Kirchen]

So, yeah, he's been unhittable. So I give him the pitching edge. But your Savage is. He's amazing, Tony. He. He talked to us on the day he was pitching in the LCS in an elimination game and it didn't seem to bother him. He is absolutely as tremendous poise. He's got the presence of Gaylord Perry on the mound and he's 22 years old. And Tony, now he will have made more postseason start than regular three. That's. That's. Joe Black did that in 1952, but he's the only guy that's ever done that.

[Tony Kornheiser]

If I ask you theoretically, what are the advantages Toronto has in the series and what are the advantages the Dodgers have in the Series?

[Tim Kirchen]

Okay, the advantages that the Blue Jays have is they have home field advantage. They get four home games and they went 54 and 27 at home during the regular season. That is really good. And the building is alive. It reminds me of the early 90s when the Blue Jays won it all in 92, 93. It is a really good home field advantage. Plus they have a better offense. I mean, they have a better defense than the Dodgers do. Not the Dodgers have a bad defense, but the Blue Jays defense is elite. The best defense in the major leagues this year as far as I can see. And they averaged six and a half runs per game, Tony. They scored. They scored more runs than they had strikeouts because they put the ball in play better. Than any team to score more runs than you have strikeouts is the last team to do that was the 2007 Red Sox post. So they put it in play better than anyone. They hit.296 as a team in the postseason. The rest of the postseason teams hit.218. That's how hard it is to get a hit these days. And the Blue Jays are really good at getting a hit, but they are up against it, against this Dodgers staff that has just been ridiculous. Postseason ERA for the starting pitchers for the Dodgers is 1.40. The opponents have hit.132 against the Dodgers starters in this postseason. It is one of the great runs we've ever seen in 10 games by any team starting rotation.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So do you. Do you find yourself favoring the Dodgers?

[Tim Kirchen]

Yeah, I picked the Dodgers to win just like everyone else did. And I saw friends of mine picked him to sweep. Look, I just watched the Blue Jays for 11 straight games. They're better than people think defensively. Fall and play starting pitching, hit the ball out of the ballpark. Vlad Guerrero is the hottest hitter on the planet. So I've got the Dodgers winning this in seven games. But Tony, anyone who thinks he's making a prediction about this season, this postseason, hasn't been watching because it's been so wildly unpredictable.

[Tony Kornheiser]

This is what I am hoping for. I am hoping that one way or another, Max Scherzer gets into a game and Clayton Kershaw gets into a game. What are your thoughts on that?

[Tim Kirchen]

Well, if it goes, Max Scherzer is going to start a game in this postseason.

[Tony Kornheiser]

You think so?

[Tim Kirchen]

Okay, I. I think so. He pitched really well against Mariners in his one start after not pitching for like 29 days. And he was classic Max Scherzer. I wrote a story on this for part of a story that I wrote for ESPN.com it'll run today just how competitive Max still is. And not just in pitching. He ran into Chris Bassett, one of his teammates, who was a great high school basketball player. So Max finds this out, and he goes to Chris Bassett, says, we're playing one on one, okay? And then he says, we're playing full court, one on one, which is so classic Max Scherzer. But then he goes out and pitches on, you know, with. With so much rest, we had no idea what we were going to get at him. And he pitched five and two thirds beautifully. And when the manager come came to get him, he said, you know, get out of here. I got this. I'm good. So Max Scherzer will start in this Series. Clayton Kershaw will not, but he will pitch in this series.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I think, I think baseball owes it to Clayton Kershaw. Even if it's just one batter, you.

[Tim Kirchen]

Know, you just, you owe it, Tony. I agree. And it's more than. This is not. I mean, he's still a really good pitcher, 11 and 2 this really good year. He's just not one of the four best starting pitchers on their team. Which shows you how deep their starting rotation is.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yes. If it comes together and those starters are healthy, it's a fabulous rotation and it allows them to put Sasaki in the bullpen, not let Blake Trine and get anywhere near a one run game as far as I'm concerned. Thank you. Tim, plug your podcast for us.

[Tim Kirchen]

Yeah. Is this a great game or what? We just had Harold Reynolds on this week. My former teammate at ESPN and he told a story about. He told at least five stories that I've never heard before. And I thought I had heard all of Harold's stories, but included was I asked him about Bo Jackson and he told me that Bo Jackson told Harold once, you're not a switch hitter. You're not a switch hitter. Which of course he was. Bo was not a switch hitter. And then he got up and hit a home run into the highest deck at the Kingdome years ago, batting left handed. Just jumped in there left handed and hit it to a place. Harold said he's only seen five balls hit there in his entire life and this one was hit by a right handed hitter who just turned around and hit left hand. That was the interview we did with Harold Redden Reynolds on Wednesday. I was crying with laughter. It was so amazing.

[Tony Kornheiser]

You can make the case. I mean, you can make the case for 20 people, but you can make the case that Bo Jackson is the greatest athlete of all time. You can. Jim Brown would be one of those people. But you can make right. You can make it for Bo Jackson.

[Tim Kirchen]

Yeah, Tony, he was the fastest and the strongest player in the major leagues at the same time. Now I defy you to find me anyone else in the history of baseball who was the fastest and the strongest at the same time. And maybe we do that for football too. Give me. Give me somebody who is fastest and the strongest. I don't think so. Bo Jackson was.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Baseball wasn't even his best sport. Thank you, Tim. Enjoy the series. Thank you.

[Tim Kirchen]

Okay, Tony, see you.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Tim Kirchen. Boys and girls, we will get into the regular rhythm of our Friday show when we come back with Jason Lock and fora. I'M Tony Kornheiser. You're listening to the Tony Kornheiser show. FanDuel's got an offer you don't want to miss this NFL season. New customers can bet just $5 and get 300 in bonus bets if you win. That's right, pick a bet, bet five bucks and if it wins, you'll unlock 300 bucks in bonus bets to use all across the app. You can build parlays, bet player props, ride the live lines. Whatever your style, fanduel has you covered. The NFL season is here and the only question is, are you ready to play? Visit FanDuel.com TonyK to download the FanDuel app today and get started.

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[Tony Kornheiser]

This is the Tony Kornh. This is and these are Post Sex Nachos. This is a song called Supergirl. You can see Post Sex Nachos tonight in Washington, dc. We have all the details on it later in the show, but plan your evening around it because they're in Washington tonight. They play in Jason Locke and four before we get to Jason, we have two emails to read. One from Trent Tolman, Camp Lejeune, North Carolina. Just wanted to say I tuned in to wannabet show Monday morning and Jason gave us a two pick parlay of St. Brown and anytime touchdown score and plus 60 yards receiving for the Monday night game. It hit with four minutes remaining in the first quarter. That's it. That's the list. Forget buying lobster, we're buying the boat to catch lobster.

[Jason Locke]

Okay.

[Tony Kornheiser]

And from Henry Allen or Elaine A L L A I N Elan. Elaine Alan, San Juan Capistrano, California. When I turned on pti, I was happy to see the Jason Locke and for a wannabe creation draped on the Statue of Liberty. Each time the camera panned over to Wilbon, the yellow hoodie was there for all 50 million PTI viewers to see. We haven't had 50 million in 25 years. If you added everyone up, we wouldn't get to 50 million. I kept vacillating back and forth. Do I hate it? Do I love it? By the end of the show, I loved it so much I must have one. Please let us know where to order. You can have mine. How thrilled were you when you saw.

[Jason Locke]

Was freaking awesome. Thank you so much. I. I have done a little bit in my, you know, journalism, quasi journalism career, gone some places, done some things, won some awards. I was so freaking, like elated to see my stupid hoodie on your set. You have no idea. Yeah, it surprised even me, so. No, we truly appreciate it. I have to say, to our credit, we have like, I mean, I think I gave out like 14 straight winning soccer bets during the period of time you had that up. Yeah, pretty ridiculous. I personally had a 14 leg Champions League parlay that I've never hit anything like that before. And I hit it before a lot of the matches. Even went to halftime the second match day. But regardless, I do have to say though, we were watching real closely yesterday because I know that it's not like live live. So by the time the thought occurred to us, it was too late to text you. But in lieu of what was happening or in light of what was happening in the NBA, there was a little duality here. Like if it's still there on that set, someone will probably notice it, freak out about, you know, a warnabet thing on the set while everybody's talking about, I was home, I wasn't viral and help us. But then there was another part of us saying we might never get back on that set because timing is everything and this story probably has Some life here, here's.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Look, I was home yesterday, so we did, you know, I left it at the studio and it's not gonna be up today. Don't worry about it. That you had, that was the one shot you had that be happy, right?

[Jason Locke]

That was the one shining moment. That's what we thought.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's right.

[Jason Locke]

Well, maybe somebody there will just forget about it. And then the rosier stuff happened and we're like, yeah, that's probably the end of that hoodie on the Statue of Liberty.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Or I could sign Chauncey Billups his name on the front and see how that worked. All right, let's get to our normal question, which is what did we learn from last night, if anything?

[Jason Locke]

You know, I think it reaffirms something I believe we discussed at some point in these past Fridays. Joe Alt is really, really, really important to everything the Chargers do offensively and therefore defensively. And it's like there have been a few of these instances this year now where a guy's come back and maybe he hasn't lit up the box score, but my God, was his impact felt. I think we just saw this in a primetime window a few days back where George Kittle was not targeted. Once in the past game, George Kittle's name was barely mentioned in the broadcast other than to say he's back. And the San Francisco 49ers run game, and specifically their outside zone run game went to an entire another level with George Kittle back on the field. You know, Rice didn't have, I don't think he had even 16 receiving yards for Kansas City the other day. And Kansas City's offense had turned it up. But Kansas City hadn't beat somebody like that in a long time. And he got 10 targets and he caught again like seven balls for like 50 some yards. But his presence made that whole thing just hum and, and rattle and just take off in a way that I just think for teams that have to defend it and teams that have to prepare for it, now it's a whole new assignment. And I felt that same way watching this last night. Yes, the quarterback, you know, it should have been probably a pick six early in the game and, and whatever, but they're down to like a third string running back and damn if they didn't move the ball pretty well on the ground. And yes, a fading Vikings defense has something to do with that, but their ability to push the ball around to see McConkey show up in all the different ways he did, that did not look like what the Chargers have looked.

[Tim Kirchen]

Like the last few weeks.

[Jason Locke]

So, you know, takeaways. I think you can put a fork in the Vikings, the whole mini controversy over the quarterback. It's got to be McCarthy. Now Wentz is toast. I can't believe he stayed in that game as long as he did. Clearly ailing. And they're. They're not the same defense. They're not the same team. And it's going to be a developmental season for that quarterback now. And the Chargers, I mean, the AFC west, there's three teams out there that, you know, look pretty viable.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Denver, Kansas City and Chargers. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jason Locke]

And yeah, if now they can't. They can't afford to lose Joe off again. But having at least one of their book and tackles pack makes a huge difference.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Speaking of Denver, Sean Payton and Russell Wilson. I'm enjoying this, but it's very minor, right? It's very minor. It doesn't mean much.

[Jason Locke]

No, it doesn't. But I wonder about this. Like, does this reveal something about me? Am I flawed? Like, you know, as a human, as a media consumer for being as down with this as I was? And I don't know, was it a little gratuitous and our coaches supposed to be above the fray? I don't know. I guess they are, but, I mean, when they're not. And it's funny.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Jason Locke]

And it's. I love, you know, it's a decent content. You can have some fun with it and nobody really got hurt. And let's face it, a lot of people have been kicking Ross for a long time.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Jason Locke]

And he welcomes some of this. I mean, Sean Payton had to sit there biting his lip every time this guy, you know, said or tweeted. Broncos country, let's ride.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Jason Locke]

So, yeah, it had been building up for a while, I'm sure. I don't really have a problem with it. I think it's kind of like, you know, a WWF promo. Well, you know, mean Gene, like, it's a little bit of that. And I. I don't really have a problem with it.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I loved it. Wilbourne just went crazy. What a terrible person Sean Payton was. And, you know, I think it's all done with a wink. All right.

[Jason Locke]

A little bit of tongue in cheek.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Let's get to tua. And all of his comments. He's. It seems to me they're not going to win any more Games and Mike McDaniel will be fired. Right.

[Jason Locke]

Well, I think what's happening now is he, to me, was flaunting, but he, to me, in the way he managed that game, in the way he spoke after that game, I think he was daring them to be fired. I think that was him saying, man, it'd be pretty cool to go trick or treating with my kids. And then we got. Then we got, you know, the turkey after that, and then we got Christmas. And I do make a lot of money, and it'd be pretty cool to have this billionaire fund my holiday season and fund the relaunch of Mike McDaniel Incorporated as an offensive coordinator, Kyle Shanahan's run game guy again, or whatever, and not have to be around these people any. That's what he was telling me. And that, to me, was Stephen Ross thinking about it, saying, you know what? You know, I'm gonna make you earn your paycheck, and, yeah, you're gonna have to be at the office every single day, and I'm gonna be checking up on you, and you're gonna have to manage this stupid quarterback controversy that you started. And now you're not going anywhere, bro. You're going to get my money whether I fire you or keep you. And I don't have a whole lot of other options. And you've torpedoed my season so bad. And look, I'm not resolving Ross. Ross has torpedoed his franchise for years.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's right.

[Jason Locke]

This should have been. This guy should not have been back in the building, you know, March 4, let alone November 4. But at this point, I think he's making him own it and wear it, because this would have been the perfect time to fire him, because you then have two games in five days. So if you don't fire him there, then you're also, you've got him for that home game against the Ravens where maybe you could have sold some hope or had people think differently about it if the new guy won his first game on the Sunday or something like that. But you're not going to fire him after this game because you play. You don't even practice. You play again in 72 hours.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's right.

[Jason Locke]

And then at that point, you're probably just making him wear it for a while longer. But it's untenable. It's a mess. They are a horrible football operation. I think Bijan Robinson goes off this weekend, you know, back to the 125, 150 scrimmage kind of plays. I can't help but think he gets in the end zone. And if you don't want to mess around with the seven in the hook with Atlanta, you know, you could Take it down to six and a half or five and a half and parlay it with those other two legs and still get good plus money. And if you're. If you want to ladder that and take that up, you know, to add in Atlanta minus eight and a half, Atlanta minus nine and a half, Atlanta minus 13 and a half. I really like Atlanta in this spot. If they do the right thing and ride their running backs, I do think they win by double digits.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Let me get to something here. As long as you bring in points, let me ask you this. Baltimore is one in five. I guess Lamar Jackson is back. Chicago is getting six and a half at Baltimore. The indication to me is that people think Baltimore is going to roll in this game. Do you?

[Jason Locke]

No, sir. No. I jumped to six and a half on the early lines on Saturday. I took that Saturday afternoon and I'm like, you know what? It may get north of 7, in which case I can always double down on this if I want to. But I did think Lamar was going to practice and I wasn't sure if he's on practice full or not. And in full disclosure, he has it. He's practice limited and it's clear he's not 100%. But that felt rich to me given the Ravens issues on defense. And I know that you can run on Chicago, and I'm sure the Ravens will try like hell to run in Chicago. They probably will be able to run in Chicago, but I don't know if they're going to be able to run in Chicago enough to be seven points better than Chicago. I mean, to me, you want to talk about takeaways, go watch what the Houston Texans did two weeks ago in Baltimore and then go watch that offense against anybody else, including Baltimore's former defensive coordinator, Mike McDonald, who, if you stayed up late on Monday, you saw that and it was an offense that was totally overwhelmed of ideas that was. That was bereft of a soul. And that's all coming off of a game where they left their starters in the game in the fourth quarter to run their stats up against the Ravens because the Ravens destroyed them in Houston Christmas Day and they felt like didn't take their foot off the gas. So, no, I still have major questions about the Ravens.

[Tim Kirchen]

Okay.

[Jason Locke]

Chicago's offense under Ben Johnson is certainly viable. So six and a half is too much for me. And I. I don't think we're going to see MVP Lamar and the fact that he hasn't even practiced in full, he hasn't played out of it. He hasn't had a full practice with that team in a month. But the backup quarterbacks were so horrible. And it was another blight from their gm, who likes to pose for the cameras and wear sunglasses at night on the sidelines of primetime games. What a look. Yeah, yeah. He's playing because Cooper Rush is horrible and Snoop Huntley's been horrible for years and he couldn't be one of the Browns three or four best quarterbacks, which is saying something because they don't have any quarterbacks.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So there's a story today by Masky that 18 games is not imminent, that they're going to wait, I guess, a while and, you know, get a new labor agreement or this, that or the other thing. I will say that surprised me. I thought 18 games next year was, was a dead lock. Are you surprised by this?

[Jason Locke]

I mean, I don't know that we're going to have to wait all that long. You know, they're playing a little bit. The NFLPA is figuring out some of its leadership issues.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yes.

[Jason Locke]

I think with had had the old guy not got in trouble and stayed in place. This was happening because everything.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's what I thought.

[Jason Locke]

He was a clown. He wasn't even putting up a fight. They had him totally bamboozled and they were going to opt, you know, they were prepared to execute the opt out, make TV deals or just on their own accord to strike a new deal with, with him agreeing to it. Because, hey, this TV stuff is, you know, we've got the ability to opt out and we're opting out because we're going to add inventory and make even more money for everybody. I still think it's happening, Tony. Is it, is it 2027? Is it 2028? I certainly don't think it's going to be. I don't think we're going to be waiting all that, all that, you know, long for it.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay.

[Jason Locke]

It's always felt somewhat inevitable. Inevitable both to me and the way they structured those deals with the ability to get out when they could get out. At the same time they were adding international games. It always, I mean, you can go back. I wrote about this at CBS Sports. I mean, probably five years ago. I'd really smart people telling me at the time like this is all building towards between week three and week 12 or week 13, there will be an international game every week. There'll be what they call international ticket and it'll be like it's going to span 10 to 12 weeks and that's going to be a part of the Calendar and London alone is going to get eight games. And people in London are going to be able to see as many NFL.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Games as anybody else for a home team.

[Jason Locke]

NFL.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Jason Locke]

And that's where it's going. And they're going to expand the playoffs and there's going to be double buys and. And everybody's going to play 18 games. And I would be stunned if that doesn't happen. I just can't tell you exactly when.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay. That's all reasonable. I plug the. Plug the betting show because that's cool.

[Jason Locke]

Yeah. Can you guys hear Gigi? She's ready for her walk.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Jason Locke]

So what we. We've had four or three lobster days.

[Tim Kirchen]

In the last week.

[Jason Locke]

We appreciate all the littles for being a big part of it. We're having a lot of fun. We're doing a great job. Honestly, myself on the back. This show launched five months ago and we're up 85 units. That's no joke. That's documented. And we do it every day and we do it with volume. So if you're even thinking about sprinkling some money on an NCAA or an NFL or a Champions League. No Champions League this weekend. Premiership or Bundesliga match or MLB or NBA. We're off to a great start. Check out @WannaBet with us on Twitter. You can check us out on YouTube if you just go to ww.wannabetwith you get all our content there. And yeah, we're live on my Twitter @Jason Lockin4 and YouTube and a bunch of other places, usually around 12:30 every day. And we definitely have some plays. We're excited about this weekend and thank you for all the support. And please give our best to the Statue of Liberty. We love Lady Liberty. We love her now more than ever. Tone.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yes. You're not seeing that sweatshirt again, but you saw it once. It's okay. And I got a lot of people. I got. Rob Stronick sent me a screenshot of it and said, I hope Jason's happy.

[Jason Locke]

I said, dude, I was sending it.

[James Carville]

To people I know who worked at.

[Jason Locke]

ESPN saying, hey, my betting show is finally kind of sort of part of your. Oh, no, it's great. It's incredible promotional material put in the.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Sales deck and great timing, too. The day before. The day before the NBA goes down the drain. Great time. All right, we'll take a break. We'll come back with James Carville, maybe. And Jeff Ma, definitely. I'm Tony Kornheiser.

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[Tony Kornheiser]

You'Re listening to the Tony Kornheiser show. The news is out.

[James Carville]

All over town.

[Singer]

That you've been seeing her running round.

[Jason Locke]

I know that I.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Should leave but.

[Tim Kirchen]

Then.

[Singer]

I just can't go.

[Jeff Ma]

You win again.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Hank Williams, you win again and plays in James Carville. This week's picks with James Carville and Jeff Ma brought to you by FanDuel Sportsbook make every moment more. And James, you were three, two and one last week. The one was so interesting to me because it was that first half bet plus four for the Titans and at the end of the half they were down 1713. So the plus four evens that out. You went 3, 2 and 1. You're 23, 18 and 1, which is the best of anybody who's picking on this show. You're back in the winning frame, right?

[James Carville]

Well, we hope so. You know, we're very humble people. We got a great team. You know, we know we're going to have some, you know, bad moments here. But our vision is I wish to go, you know, over 53.5% which I think is something. I think it's 54.5to 52.5. But you have to do to win with the juice. So that's our aspirational goal is to make the list of the Tony Koenhauser.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Show, some extra dough, lobster dinner money and. And you once again crushed it in college. Not as great in the pros, but crushed it in college. The one, the one bet you made I wouldn't have taken was I wouldn't have taken the Atlanta San Francisco over because I don't think San Francisco scores much. And so you were considerably under on that, right?

[James Carville]

Well, yeah, we stunned that we didn't come close on that. I had down at Joe Stone crab with the Great. Acl, we were replaying that one, but he's a lot better. He's a lot more wins than losses. And that's what you try to do.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's the whole team. Acl, James and Tebowt. All right, what do you got for us this week?

[James Carville]

Okay, let's go. I said I'm taking Indiana and I'm laying 25 points, but at home against UCLA, and UCLA is really bad and maybe Indiana's good. I have the hardest time becoming a believer. But my pal Mike Tackett, who runs AP in Washington, a big Indiana guy. I was in Vigo county, which is Terre Haute, and they fired up about the Hoosier, so I'm gonna go with them.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, UCLA lost to Northwestern. I mean, I don't think you have to say anything more. They lost to Northwest.

[James Carville]

Penn State lost in Northwest.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's right. That's right. All right, what do you got? What else?

[James Carville]

Okay, I said the Rust Bow, but we got a Buffalo and Akron.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Huh?

[James Carville]

What is it? What do you got there? Minus nine.

[Bethesda Bagels Representative]

Yeah, yeah, Buffalo. Minus nine and a half against the Zips.

[James Carville]

It's not the Bills, but okay.

[Tim Kirchen]

Later.

[James Carville]

Nine and a half.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay, what else?

[James Carville]

And then we got the TT Boat, Chapel and Tulsa.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Right?

[James Carville]

And we got Tulsa getting six. I would take it.

[Tony Kornheiser]

You're taking Tulsa?

[James Carville]

Anybody? Yeah, if you get six against Chapel, you got to take it.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay.

[James Carville]

In the pros.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yep.

[James Carville]

It's hard to get out of my mouth, but the Saints are getting four and a half at home and I gotta go with him.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Really? You don't think it's a bounce back game for Tampa Bay?

[James Carville]

You know, I think we're, first of all, the science at home.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Right.

[James Carville]

Secondly, I watch him. And they don't quit. I mean, I've got that good. I'm not gonna tell you that four and a half points is a lot in the NFL.

[Tim Kirchen]

We forget that.

[James Carville]

There's a lot of games that fall.

[Tim Kirchen]

Three, four.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay. All right.

[James Carville]

And then you get, you know, you're up by. By 10, and they let you, you know, you. They don't care. You score right into the game. That happens a lot. You get killed. A lot of those kind of stuff. Okay, we got the Jets. This is hard.

[Tim Kirchen]

This is really, really hard.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[James Carville]

Getting seven at Cincinnati. And don't. Don't take a Saints jet parlay. Okay. My old bookmaker in Baton Rouge, Bobby Shamahal, used to say, I'd swim the river to book of parlay. Let me tell you, the river at Baton Rouge is wide. You wouldn't want to swim it.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Right.

[Tim Kirchen]

Okay.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Taking the jets over Cincinnati, even though Flacco had a pretty good debut with Cincinnati. Okay.

[James Carville]

Again, you're getting seven points.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay.

[James Carville]

What can I say?

[Jason Locke]

All right.

[James Carville]

You're not. You're getting seven points. You ain't going to be that good to start with. And then we got.

[Tim Kirchen]

Yeah.

[James Carville]

Which is a good kind of throwback, old fashioned NFL game. Green Bay at Pittsburgh. Can't beat that because, you know you're going to watch it because I think it's a night game Sunday night. So we'll give our players a little action here. Let's take the Steelers.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. People are going to watch that game. That's Aaron Rodgers against his old team. People are going to watch that game. And plus the Steelers are second only to the Cowboys in terms of being liked all around the country. The Steelers, everybody likes the Steelers. And that's. I mean, I will watch that one too. Right. You'll.

[James Carville]

Everybody like the Cowboys or hate the Cowboys?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Everybody either likes or hates the Cowboys, but they draw an unbelievable amount of fans.

[Jason Locke]

They do.

[Tony Kornheiser]

They do. They really do.

[James Carville]

I gotta say one thing about Jerry Jones. He don't win a lot. That guy's the greatest marketer in sports.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yes. He's happy.

[Tim Kirchen]

He is.

[Tony Kornheiser]

He goes to sleep happy every night. He's having a good time.

[James Carville]

He has a, you know, you see him, he like touches you. James, I want you.

[Tim Kirchen]

You come.

[James Carville]

Dallas Cowboy. Gay.

[Tim Kirchen]

I will.

[James Carville]

You call me. You understand? No, no, no. Yeah, of course. I never call him, but he's. He's selling all the time.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I like Jerry Jones.

[James Carville]

I don't like the Cowboys that much, but it's kind of not the most valuable franchise in sports.

[Tony Kornheiser]

100%.

[James Carville]

Yankees, the Celtics. Anybody else?

[Tony Kornheiser]

100%. 100%. All right, good luck and we will talk to you next week.

[James Carville]

Absolutely. We're gonna get him this week.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay.

[James Carville]

Rah rah ree.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Kick him in the knee.

[James Carville]

Rah rah rah. Kick him in the other knee.

[Tony Kornheiser]

James Carville, boys and girls. And we go from James Carville to Jeff Ma. Jeff Ma is with us, truth be told. This is taped. We're doing this as we sit here at 5:30 on Thursday night. Jeff was 3 and 2 last week, 2017 overall. And we'll get to his picks, but there's a story out there that I would want to talk to no one else other than Jeff Ma about. And that was that. Yesterday, Thursday, as you hear it, it'll be yesterday. There was a story that came out about two arrests made Three arrests made, but two with active NBA people. One of them, Terry Rozier, a guard at the Miami Heat, is accused of helping gamblers illegally and shading his own performances so that they could make prop bets that they knew that they were going to win. And then the coach of the Portland Trailblazers, Chauncey Billups, was accused of conspiracy, I guess, to defraud a lot of people in a high stakes, illegal poker game that apparently was backed by the mob. And some of the details in that are amazing. You do this for a living, you gamble for a living. I imagine that the Chauncey Billups thing, with the way they describe it, with the way how the cheating went on and why they went for Chauncey Billups, I imagine that's something that you may have been familiar with.

[Jeff Ma]

I'm not sure you would say familiar. I mean, I think there. There's been quite a bit of rumors about this concept of high stakes poker games. Private games. Poker and private games and high stakes games. This is obviously not a new thing. These private games have occurred for a long time. The theory behind this is that there was a network of games that there was cheating in. And again, I don't think any of this is a novel concept, right? I mean, if you're going to play a private poker game with people that you don't know, you should be buyer beware. It's not like this is a regulated market where there's people sitting there making sure it's a fair game. And if you talk to professional poker players, this kind of thing, I don't think it would surprise them at all that this was happening. I mean, there. There were pod. There's some podcasts that are out there that even alluded to this years ago that, you know, there were unfair games that were happening, NBA players. And I even think Chauncey was called out in one of them and one of those podcasts as being part of one of these games. Now, again, there's a lot of rumors, there's a lot of innuendo and all this, and now this is like, come to a real thing where there's investigation and indictments and whatnot. But, you know, again, like the notion of an unfair, rigged private poker game, you know, where you're using celebrities to attract the people to come play. You know, like, I want to play poker with Chauncey Billups.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Right.

[Jeff Ma]

That doesn't seem, you know, that does not seem crazy to me. Obviously, like some of the things they talk about with the methods they use, the technology they use Seems very Mission Impossible James Bond. But you know, cheating can come in many, many different ways. And you know, this was, this is the way they did it.

[Tony Kornheiser]

The NBA has immediately suspended both players, both people. Rosier is suspended from playing Miami games and Billups is suspended from coaching Portland. Should, if his name has surfaced before in things like this, should we be surprised if, if some of the talk about him doesn't go wider? Would we be surprised if perhaps he was also named as somebody who helped gamblers, you know, with certain knowledge before a game?

[Jeff Ma]

You're alluding to Chauncey.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yes. In that.

[Jeff Ma]

Well, there, there is, there is. He is not named in the second, but he is. There is a unnamed co conspirator. I think it's co conspirator 8 that basically is said to have given information about players being out. So he is actually named on both sides. He is not named on both sides, but there, if you, if you connect the dots, he is, he is, he is attached to both.

[Tony Kornheiser]

And let me get to Rosier for a second. I am not a gambler, but I, I know that when you bet on your phone, when you do, once gambling is legalized and people are not using, you know, professional touts like they used to, where everything is kept quiet, once things are legalized and you bet on your phone, there's an enormous amount of information that goes out there. It's easier to catch, you know, to red flag certain circumstances. Right. I mean, this, it's easy to catch somebody like Rosier when you see the pattern of betting attached to his game.

[Jeff Ma]

Yeah, for sure. I mean, this is one of those cases where I think the casual will say something like, oh, this is why we can't have, you know, legalized sports betting. But it's actually the opposite.

[Tim Kirchen]

Right.

[Tony Kornheiser]

This is like, protects people.

[Jeff Ma]

Yeah. This is how we catch people. This is how we, you know, this is, this is how ultimately these things get surfaced. I think in the case of John Tay Porter, which is kind of the thing that I think started a lot of this that was flagged by the regulated sports books. And you know, in general, like, again, like, I think one of the questions that you come to with something like this is is this a systemic problem or is this a couple bad actors? And the reality is like, I'd like to think it's a couple of bad actors because generally they were so careless. And like, this is not, like these are not, you know, masterminds doing this. If you think about even just some of the stories that are being told about, you know, it's like, it's like, I don't know how much of like the masterminds, at least the NBA players were necessarily. Certainly the people who are orchestrating the rings were probably a little bit more savvy on this, but the NBA players involved were not taking the precut precautions to not get caught.

[Tony Kornheiser]

It's very easy to catch someone. Terry Rosier has made like almost $100 million. I mean, if he is found to be guilty in this, they'll ban him for life. Right. And his contracts, whatever haven't been paid will be null and void, right?

[Jeff Ma]

Yeah, I mean, I would think for sure. And you know, I mean, again, like, people have thrown these numbers out that people like Chauncey and, you know, and Roger have made and like, how could they do this with, for this small amount of money? But I mean, I just don't think these decisions are always rational. In the case of John Tay Porter, it's been said, and obviously he didn't make any very much money, but, but he was in some debt and that's what kind of got him into this situation. So, you know, who knows what happens in these situations. And again, like, if I were venturing, I would say that, you know, like, if you were to take the positive side on Chauncey, it's like maybe he didn't know the extent of the cheating that was happening. You know, he's just being told, like, come play in this game. And he gets to like, look the other way, you know, as that's happening. But you know, again, like, this is not the way. When you hear about how these guys were caught and what they did, it does seem like this was not the most, you know, from their standpoint, at least the NBA players, the most savvy way of, you know, and again, never really thinking that these repercussions or like backlash or anything that might happen to them would happen them. It's like you kind of get the sense that these people think they're, they're above the law, so it's never going to be something that catches up with them.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I would expect at some point Adam Silver to come out from hiding underneath his desk and actually address this personally, wouldn't you?

[Jeff Ma]

I think he's in some trouble because, like, ultimately, like, if you see some of the stuff that happened, Brouge and some of the ways that, quote unquote, the NBA has cleared these people or.

[Tony Kornheiser]

You know, has their investigation cleared him.

[Jeff Ma]

So, yeah, so it's, it's, it is a little concerning that. That's the Case. I do think there's an interesting angle to this, which is why has this become so high profile? I mean, I know it's like in the world we live in, in sports, it's high profile. But you know, some of the numbers that they've talked about in this poker game, they're saying like the people that lost money lost like $7 million and this has been like a four year. A four year, like the total is $7 million. And this has been like a four year investigation. It's like, you know, that there does seem like bigger fish to fry, but this is such a sensationalized story that like everyone wants to talk about it.

[Tony Kornheiser]

All right. And let's just be guilty of gambling ourselves and talk about the games that you want to pick this week. As I said, 3 and 2 last week, 20 and 17 overall. What do you got for us?

[Jeff Ma]

Seem like the funny non sequitur, doesn't it?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, you did well. You won. You were, you were two and one in college. You're two and one in college, but you won Indianapolis.

[Jeff Ma]

How am I compared to Carville, by the way? I'm like now I feel very, you know, very, very competitive with them since.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Carville was two oh and one in college. Oh no, he was two and oh, in college. He was two and oh, in college. He tied on the Titans. He made a first half that the only really crazy bet he made I thought was the Falcons and San Francisco 49ers taking the over. Over 47. The 49ers don't really have an offense and that, that he wasn't close on that one. So anyway, anyway, what do you got?

[Jeff Ma]

I'm going to take Oklahoma minus the 5 1/2 over Ole Miss. Oklahoma is a team I rode last week. Obviously they, they played really well against South Carolina on the road. Still some concern about material's health.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Jeff Ma]

Do you know how many times the team that played Ole Miss last week, Georgia punted?

[Tony Kornheiser]

I'm gonna guess two, 1 00. Okay. Yeah.

[Jeff Ma]

So Ole Miss's defenses is may have some trouble here. And I like Oklahoma minus a five and a half.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay.

[Jeff Ma]

What else gonna take a. Hold your nose and hope for the best bet, which is Wisconsin plus the 32 at Oregon. This is again when we talked last week and we bet on, you know, the Bill Belichick and Unc. Yes.

[Tony Kornheiser]

You won that.

[Jeff Ma]

Yeah. This notion that these, you know, coaching and drama and all that kind of stuff gives that narrative, gives a lot of value on the team that's in the turmoil, situation And Rufus talked about this game on about the process. He said that the line from his numbers to only be about 25. So you're getting Wisconsin plus the 32.

[Tony Kornheiser]

At Oregon here and their coach is in trouble. He's in trouble.

[Jeff Ma]

Fickle is getting all that same sort of grief right now where you know, on the hot seat, etc. I'm going to take the Hoosiers minus the 25 over UCLA. A battle of two unbeatens, you know that well.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Two unbeatens in the Big Ten.

[Jeff Ma]

Yeah, at least. So it's kind of just this riding this Indiana wave continued. And again like is there going to be a letdown here?

[Jason Locke]

It's still.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Wait, wait, wait, wait. Let me interrupt, let me interrupt. Didn't Northwestern beat ucla? Didn't they beat.

[Jeff Ma]

Oh yeah, that's true. Okay.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I mean Will Bond would go crazy if I let that go. He'd go crazy. Northwestern. Okay, you see you're going to.

[Jeff Ma]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

You're going to take 32 and give 25.

[Jeff Ma]

Yes.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay. What else?

[Jeff Ma]

And then I'm going to take in the, in the NFL. I'm going to take Atlanta minus the seven and a half over Miami. I may finally have really turned the corner of Miami. It took a while against him a little bit more lately but like Atlantis is a very good team at home. I think this is a game that you know, they, they will win by margin and Miami is in a world.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Of hurt and Tua seems to be self destructing. He, he does, he seems to be self destructing.

[Jeff Ma]

There's something going on for sure. I mean can they bounce back here? I don't think so because again, Atlanta can put pressure on them. Atlanta can score at home. Winning by just a little bit more than touchdown is something I think they can do.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay.

[Jeff Ma]

And then I'm going to take the Browns plus the seven over the Patriots, obviously.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Really?

[Jeff Ma]

Drake May has done. Yeah, it's very impressive. Right. But, but this is a real test for him because the Browns are the best defense in the league and the Patriots so far have played the Raiders, the Dolphins, the Steelers, the Panthers, the Bills, the Saints and the Titans. So they have not played very many good defense.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Couple of good teams. Just a couple. Yeah. Just a couple. Yeah.

[Jason Locke]

Not the defenses.

[Jeff Ma]

I mean I think they played the.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Steelers seven and a half. That's what Nigel is telling me. Seven and a half.

[Jason Locke]

Oh, okay.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I'll take that. You take that.

[Jeff Ma]

That's wonderful.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So you're, but you're trusting Dylan Gabriel to go into New England and, and you know and keep it close.

[Jeff Ma]

It's kind of more a bet on that defense being able to slow down Drake May. Okay, again.

[Tony Kornheiser]

All right.

[Jeff Ma]

Everyone loves Drake May right now. He's one of the, you know, he's, he's, he's. You're definitely Chuck Todd quoted me about buying low, selling high. Well, this is like your sell high on Drake May.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay, so those are your games for this week.

[Jeff Ma]

Those are the games you want to.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Tell us who's on bet, the process.

[Jeff Ma]

It's just Rufus and I this week because we, we talk a lot about some of the prediction market stuff that's happening again. And we talk about whether those prediction markets are going to end up shaping sports betting because they're having a pretty big impact. I mean, that would be the thing we'd be talking about if we weren't talking about all of this. These indictments.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Should. Yeah. Should we be surprised if down the road, anybody that you and Rufus knows gets hauled off in the paddy wagon for having something to do with these games?

[Jeff Ma]

Well, I'll tell you something about this. Like, this is a really interesting thing because when people talk about what we did in the world of blackjack, they will sometimes say cheat. And it always bothers me when someone says cheat.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Because you didn't cheat.

[Jeff Ma]

We didn't cheat. We used our brains to beat a game. The law and where it gets cheating is if you use a device, if you use a computer, if you use X ray vision contacts or marked cards. And personally, that's something I would never do. So will someone. I know you're kind of making a joke, but, like, sort of like we would. We wouldn't associate with any of these situations. Although I'll do tell you the one moral hazard or the one hazard of all of this. There's no official laws on inside trading in sports betting.

[Jason Locke]

Right.

[Jeff Ma]

There's no regulatory. Like, there's not. There's nothing that. That says what is inside trading. Like, if someone tells you something about.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's right.

[Jeff Ma]

Anecdotally about someone, you know, they know that the trainer.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Not like Martha Stewart. Yeah, it's not. It's not.

[Jeff Ma]

It's a different thing. So, I mean, you do personally have to draw your own ethical line on what is inside information and what is.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, well, that's, you know, that's one of the things. The other person who's been arrested, who used to hang around in the NBA and was a coach at some point, it is said that he used his influence with LeBron James, who was his friend, to get Tips to give these tips out to people, which seems to me rather insidious. But. But I don't know that there are laws against it. Right. I don't know.

[Jason Locke]

I think.

[Jeff Ma]

I think if you are a player in that situation, you're governed by a different.

[Jason Locke]

Different set of rules.

[Singer]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Thank you, Jeff.

[Jason Locke]

All right.

[Jeff Ma]

Thanks, Tony.

[Tony Kornheiser]

This week's picks with James Carville and Jeff Mobb been brought to you by FanDuel Sportsbook. Make every moment more. All right, next up is email and jingle. I'm Tony Kornheiser.

[Commercial Announcer]

This is the Tony Kornheise.

[Tony Kornheiser]

This is the Zama medical middle school guitar class. That's all guitars.

[Bethesda Bagels Representative]

Yes.

[Tony Kornheiser]

And it's in Japan.

[Bethesda Bagels Representative]

In Japan.

[Tony Kornheiser]

How did we get that?

[Bethesda Bagels Representative]

I sent it to us. This is I think the second or third time we played it. It's just fantastic.

[Tony Kornheiser]

A contact in Japan that would notice. Do this.

[Jason Locke]

Not.

[Bethesda Bagels Representative]

Not quite sure.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Wow, that's amazing. Yes. It's all guitars. That's great. Maybe it was his aunt. Who knows? Could have been. Wow, that's just an amazing. All right. You want to do the Bethesda bagel?

[Bethesda Bagels Representative]

Yes, Bethesda Bagels.

[Tony Kornheiser]

We love them.

[Bethesda Bagels Representative]

You will as well. Just go to BethesdaBaggles.com for the location in the DC area near Shoe. And I want to give a shout out to our very good friend Jared Freed, comedian. He is in town tonight at the Warner theater. If you are smart, you will make your way.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Are you open? Opening?

[Bethesda Bagels Representative]

I'm not opening, no.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Because Greg's opening.

[Bethesda Bagels Representative]

Yeah, I've done that once before for Jared.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Give us your best five minutes. No, I think.

[Bethesda Bagels Representative]

I think I've spent them already.

[Tony Kornheiser]

All right. Okay. Bethesda bagels.

[Bethesda Bagels Representative]

Yes.

[Tony Kornheiser]

You did that. I did, yes. And then you did Jared.

[Bethesda Bagels Representative]

And then I did Jared.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So I can go on. Before we get to the mailbag, let me just say the night we met I knew I needed you so and if I had the chance I'd never let you go so once you say you love me I'll make you so proud of we'll make them turn their heads every place we go so won't you please be my baby? That's the Run ATS. That's just great. Just great. It's a top 10 all time song. Absolutely. Thanks to our guests today. Lots of guests. Tim Kirchen, Jason Lockenfor James Carville, Jeff Ma. Thanks as well to today's sponsors. Remember, you can listen to us on Apple podcasts, Spotify and Audacy. If you get the show through Apple, please Leave us a review. And even if you go see Jared tonight, you can also, I guess, go tonight to see post sex nachos. That's right. I mean, you can split this up. They'll be playing at the Atlantis tonight at 7:30pm the address is 2047 Ninth Street Northwest in D.C. so that's like relatively close to where Jared's performing, right? Yes. So you can go to the post sex nachos and to Jared Freed. They would love to hear some hearty lecheseries from the crowd. It's almost early enough for Tony to make an appearance. Michael, get a babysitter and hopefully Nigel. Babysitter dreams. Yeah, they always appreciate your support and and so once again, post sex nachos tonight at the Atlantis in Northwest. Some email from John L. Conroy Jr. Esquire, Attorney at Law, Haddonfield, New Jersey. Please consider June 23, 1971, Phillies versus Cincinnati. Rick Wise, good right handed pitcher. Yeah, no hits the Reds. The Big Red machine in the making. And hits two home runs as well. His two home runs. He's the pitcher, you know, and he's a real pitcher. That's all he does is pitch. And John Conroy writes six innings for Ohtani. What is this Little League? Sean Griffin, Leesburg, Virginia Too late for more Ohtani comparisons. I got in a small argument with a good friend who would not put it in his top five baseball performance performances of all time. Which is insane. Yes, that is insane. The one performance he mentioned which I agreed is worthy was Bob Gibson's Game 7 performance in the 1967 World Series in which he threw a complete game, giving up two runs and adding a homer of his own. The first performance I thought of was from basketball. And not Wilts 100 or even Walton showing in the national title game, but Magic Johnson. In game six of the 1980 NBA Finals. Playing center to replace the injured Kareem, he put up 42 points, 15 rebounds, seven assists to beat Dr. J and the Sixers by 16 at the Spectrum. I humbly apologize for making you talk about the NBA in October. Yeah, well, I've got to do it anyway. Bill Gentry. Hi, Dr. Tony, it's me again. Dr. Bill Gentry from Wake Forest University, the official director of learning and development for the Tony Kornizer Show. The greatest sports performances ever. Ohtani, Jesse Owens, Wilt. Yes, but you missed one. July 4, 2021. 10 minutes, 76, hot dogs and buns. Joey Chestnut. That's it. That's the list. Superhuman from Mike Todd. Not that Mike Todd, with all due respect to FELLOW Ohioans Pat DeWine and Barry Katz, the greatest athletic accomplishment of all time was me playing my very first game of Clue with my friends Dave and Paul Hamilton. On my very first turn. I correctly guessed that it was Colonel Mustard in the library with the candlestick. Boom. That's it. That's the list. Eat it, Glenn and Allen Norwegian Soft Kitten when discussing the all time greatest Sports Performance On April 17, 1982, our guitarist Glenn singled up the middle in the fourth inning of a JV baseball game to drive in Dave Lenz from third base and give Concordia High School a 3 to 2 lead over Snyder High School. Eat it, Otani. Jim In Luke Luther Ville I want to update you on the classic Kornheiser comments T shirt. The I'm Not a Funland Guy shirts are moving briskly. Please let the listeners know that we have a new shirt which could be a wonderful addition to fall wardrobes. The new shirts say I like the idea of a pumpkin, some assorted colors and sizes. We do ask customers to call before visiting. The warehouse operators are standing by. And here's an AI thing that was sent to me. It says attach is a painting I found in a small Nantucket drinking establishment hanging above the bar mantel as an homage to the joyful triumphs and terrible travails that was brought upon you and your trusty first mate on that fateful day when a group of passengers climbed aboard that tiny ship. Unfortunately, what followed was much longer than a three hour tour. A three hour tour and it's me and Wil Bond. I'm the captain. Wil Bond's the mate.

[Bethesda Bagels Representative]

He's Gilligan.

[Tony Kornheiser]

He's Gilligan. It's so weird. It's just so weird. Show it to Michael. It's so weird that it's scary. From David Olson in Madison, Wisconsin. Even though I live in Wisconsin, my work has me in New York City several times a year. Soon, however, I'll be making my first trip to Long island for a conference. What sort of shenanigans would qualify for a true TK experience? So far I'm planning to grab a copy of Newsday and cruise the loop around George W. Hewlett High School. Then I'll head to Aloha Tower for lunch while humming songs by the Rascals. Should I end my day on Fire island reciting the poetry of Louise Glue? That's a wonderful stop by the dairy barn. If the dairy barn was still there. Gary Van Geesen A quick shout out to the brilliant Dan Byrne. I can't remember the last time I've heard a reference to Sacco and Vanzetti. Yes, it was brilliant. He may be the only one to work in such an obscure reference, with the possible exception of Nigel getting his picks from Reginald the Monkey. Just brilliant. Keep up the good work from Mark Murray in Wappinger's Falls, New York in the Catskills. Ye olde flusher of thou mouse. Amazing trivia for all of us. Two hall of Fame pitchers have played their last game prior to retirement in the World Series. Sandy Koufax in 1966 went six innings in a six nothing loss to a 20 year old Jim Palmer.

[Bethesda Bagels Representative]

That's right.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Grover Cleveland Alexander in 1930 gave up two earned in a relief loss. If Kershaw and Max get in the series, I'll double that trivia star. And if either pitch in a winning game, that'll be the only time in major league history. The only question I'd have about this tidbit of trivia is whether or not your avocado loving friend knows it. We didn't ask him about this. No, we did not. So, yeah, I hope that Max and Kershaw get in. I'm going to. You know I really hope, don't you? Oh, absolutely. You know, even if it's a one inning mop up, one is definitely retiring the other one.

[Bethesda Bagels Representative]

I'd like to see Kershaw out there.

[Tony Kornheiser]

And have that narrative.

[Bethesda Bagels Representative]

Yeah, exactly. Have like the strikeout and then walk off the mound, you know.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Wayne in Kettering, Ohio, sometime back on this quality podcast, you bemoaned your inability to escape bunker. Michael suggested a ping bunker club. After assuring the woman to whom I'm related by marriage that this would be money well worth spending, I purchased said club. Lo and behold, I am now a somewhat average bunker player, having not left a ball in the trap since the purchase. Thanks, Michael. Looking forward to tips on how not to pull my irons.

[Tim Kirchen]

Boom.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I played some holes yesterday. I got a nine on one and one is a charitable number. I hit a drive into the rough on the right.

[Jeff Ma]

Did you actually putt out for a nine?

[Tony Kornheiser]

I. It could have been an 11, but I. All day. I just gave you that two footer. Yeah, I hit a second. I. I drove into the rough on the right, I hit a seven iron out and I'm 110. Okay. I hit it into the bunker on the right and take three or four shots. Couldn't get out. Three or four shots. I'm close to the lip. I just couldn't get out. It just. It was awful. Just Awful. From Brendan Borzelli, Lebanon, New Jersey. So you were at the 1973 NCAA Men's Championship, huh? Were your feet in the end zone as you have a knock for doing at major college sporting events?

[Singer]

No.

[Tony Kornheiser]

If you were not in the end zone, I was sitting in a seat. Andrew in la, unlike you and Michael, my plan for Halloween is to always buy candy that kids seem to like, but that I wouldn't eat on a bet. My go to candy is Reese's Peanut Butter Cups. I like them too, as kids seem to go crazy over them. And I wouldn't eat them if I were cast in the sequel to Tom Hanks in the Volleyball Movie. Oh, I. I don't. I like them.

[Jeff Ma]

I love a Reese's Peanut Butter cup, but you can only eat like a couple at a time. So it's different than Halloween candy, where.

[Tony Kornheiser]

They now go to town smaller than your toenail and charge you more money. I. I just looked today. I. Because I was thinking of going a Safeway today and buying some candy. The bag of candy is $31. That's a lot of money. Now I have a coupon. You could get it for like 26.50 or something. It's an online coupon, though. It's an online. And you know, I have to bring it with me and. And beg somebody to check me out with it.

[Tim Kirchen]

Problematic.

[Singer]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Gosh, it's really expensive again.

[Bethesda Bagels Representative]

You've got the Necco wafers here.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's just not enough. No, it's not enough. If you're out on your bike tonight, everyone, as always, do wear white.

[Jeff Ma]

Look, mother, I want to go to.

[Tim Kirchen]

Work in one hour. We are the pros from Dover and we figured to crack this kid's chest and get out to the golf course before it gets dark.

[Singer]

Drive out to the countryside, stare up at that deep blue sky Anything to clear your mind you don't have to be so give yourself away once in a while you don't have to work yourself to death baby just sit there, catch a breath know you work so damn hard you got no better to do your work but you don't have to do it alone Let me someone you don't make a face you work all the time Give yourself away once in a while you don't have to work yourself today baby just a day catch a breath Sam To a while you don't let the w your don't need to be like you.