“At Their Whim”

Summary

The Tony Kornheiser Show – “At Their Whim”

Date: June 24, 2026
Host: Tony Kornheiser
Guests: Brian Windhorst, Chuck Culpepper, Michael Wilbon (sit-in), additional regular contributors

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Overview

This episode of "The Tony Kornheiser Show" blends Tony's signature blend of sports enthusiasm and skepticism, covering the aftermath of a wild Nationals-Phillies baseball game, major NBA trades and draft moves with Brian Windhorst, and the remarkable story of Cape Verde in the World Cup alongside Chuck Culpepper. Rich with lively banter, the show’s regular guests offer context, expertise, and humor, delivering an insightful and relatable take on the latest in the sports world and beyond.

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Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Nationals-Phillies Game: Meltdown and Memory

[01:52–08:34]

• Tony and Michael relive a Nationals game that saw the Nats blow an “unlosable” lead, giving up eight runs in the top of the ninth inning.
  • Tony: “The Phillies scored eight runs in the top of the ninth with two out. A complete fail.” [06:08]
  • Michael describes his reaction: “After the Phillies take the lead, we're downstairs. I leave the house. I just start walking the neighborhood… I have to now stay outside until the game goes final.” [07:12]
• Importance of sports communion—shared texts and live reactions during big moments.
  • Michael: “It's what's so powerful about sports. It brings people together.” [08:34]
• Tony questions the appeal of televised sports drafts, comparing them to “bingo in a VFW hall.”
  • Tony: “TV drafts are TV drafts… a guy going B14, now serving. That's what it is…” [08:56]

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2. NFL Supplemental Draft and Brendan Sorsby

[09:30–11:48]

• Surprise at how the NFL denied Texas Tech QB Brendan Sorsby's request to enter the supplemental draft.
  • Tony: “The NFL has had for years the priority of creating or not creating a supplemental draft. It's at their whimsical. It's not at your whim. No, it's at their whim.” [09:31]
  • Guest: “The tone of the note from the NFL was not like, 'Hey, we know you've got a problem.'… It was like, 'yeah, figure it out and then come back to us maybe next year.'” [11:21]
• Discussion about the player’s uncertain options and how the league’s priorities can upend individual plans.
  • Tony: “You just can't waltz in here like it's your league. It's our league, pal. That's. That's what the tone was.” [11:36]

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3. NBA NBA NBA: Draft, Blockbuster Trades, and Team Strategies

[14:12–32:28]

Giannis Antetokounmpo Trade Discussion

[15:02–19:09]

• Giannis is traded to the Miami Heat in a blockbuster deal.
  • Chuck Culpepper: “When the smoke cleared, he's on the Heat. So, you know, you have to say that the Heat won...” [15:08]
• Milwaukee’s motivation: Restocking with lottery picks instead of taking Jaylen Brown from Boston.
  • Insight on asset value and organizational rebuild; Milwaukee’s choice prioritizes long-term prospects over a near-term “replacement” star.
  • Chuck: "This trade was essentially Giannis for Jalen and a couple of first round picks... I think Milwaukee was like, well, the reason we're in this, Pickles, we've got nothing left around Giannis..." [17:26–18:50]

Julius Randle Dump and its Meaning

[19:09–21:20]

• Randle sent to Brooklyn “for nothing,” which Chuck says is a cash-saving move more than basketball logic.
  • Chuck: “One of the revelations of the playoffs … was Jaden McDaniels … opens up a role for him.” [20:17]
  • Chuck: “When you trade a player for nothing into someone else's cap room, you get basically a gift certificate … that they can go use on another player … I don't think they are. I think their owners are tired of paying the luxury tax ...” [20:32–21:10]

Draft Trends & Notable Picks

[21:20–32:28]

• Dusty May to Dallas: A surprising coaching change with May drafted one of his own players, Morris Johnson, higher than expected.
  • Chuck: “It was a unique situation ... And your old coach and your new coach is embracing you in the same moment.” [23:08]
• Boozer to Memphis: Memphis highly values him, sees opportunity to build around him.
  • Chuck: “…Memphis is the one place that every single year people say, let's get out of Memphis. ... I think it's going to be good for him…” [24:42]
• The Wizards' Big Choice:
  • Chuck: “The Wizards chose to Bancet and it's a big giant, huge decision that could potentially define the franchise for the next 10 to 15 years.” [29:07]
  • The debate between safer picks (Bansa) and “upside” picks (Peterson).
  • Chuck: “Peterson could win an MVP award. But Peterson also just has some aspects of his personality that are just a little bit concerning.” [30:38]
  • Tony’s Skepticism: “Their history indicates that they do it wrong. … They took Kwame Brown, who was a failure. … They took John Wall who flamed out early…” [31:51]

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4. World Cup: Cape Verde’s Incredible Run

[34:49–43:37]

• Chuck Culpepper’s Reporting: Personal exploration of Cape Verde’s diaspora and their World Cup journey.
  • Chuck: “To be around the fans and the people who welcomed the team ... has been ... one of the best ones I can ever recall.” [34:49]
• Tiny Nation, Huge Heart:
  • Tony notes, “Baltimore has more people than Cape Verde. ... This is extraordinary. Beyond, beyond words…” [36:04]
  • Chuck: “They have more people living outside the country than ... in the country. And that's because ... it just doesn't rain enough. ... And those who have left ... have great fondness for the land and for the country…” [37:30]
• Diaspora in Boston/New England:
  • Chuck: “It all has its origins … in the whaling industry ... New England, especially New Bedford, Massachusetts, started bringing people from Cape Verde to the US ... and it led to ... a full stadium, welcoming the team...” [39:18–40:45]
• Cape Verde’s Team Composition:
  • 12 current squad members born in the country, most others in diaspora communities.
  • Official language is Portuguese; everyday Creole, 10 islands in the nation.
  • Tony: “Half the people on the United States team don't speak English. ... What language do they speak in Cape Verde?” [41:55]
  • Chuck: “Portuguese as the official language. There is a Cabo Verdian Creole that they speak ...” [42:06]

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5. Soccer’s Place in the U.S.: Messi, Greatness, and Culture

[43:25–49:37]

• Tony and Chuck explore the appeal of soccer, the relatability of its stars (especially Lionel Messi), and why Messi’s presence in the U.S. matters.
  • Tony: “Soccer is one of the few sports where you can be of average size and succeed. Right. Isn't that one of the…?”
  • Chuck: “Right. ... Look at no further than Messi.” [45:27]
  • Tony: “He got 88,000 people to Jordan Hare Stadium at Auburn. ... That stuff that does not happen. Right?” [49:14]
• Is Messi the GOAT?:
  • Tony: “It's sort of automatic ... people say, oh, he's the goat ... He's not the goat. Or is he?” [45:37]
  • Chuck: “I do think what’s happening in this World Cup is going to cement for a lot of people the idea that he's the goat…” [45:59]

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Notable Quotes

• On sports heartbreak:
  “They had this game in the bag. They made a great comeback in the bottom of the 8th. ... They gave up 10 runs in the last two innings. ... Absolutely terrible. And thrilling, at the same time.”
  —Tony Kornheiser [06:14]

• On drafting debates:
  “To me, they are static television shows. They get a lot of ratings. ... It's like bingo in a VFW hall to me.”
  —Tony Kornheiser [02:52]

• On NBA team choices:
  “This trade was essentially Giannis for Jalen and a couple of first round picks. ... But ... the reason we’re in this, Pickles, we’ve got nothing left around Giannis.”
  —Chuck Culpepper [18:44]

• On Cape Verde diaspora:
  “They have more people living outside the country than ... in the country. ... Those who have left ... have great fondness for the land and for the country, but often, you know, go away to say, the Netherlands or the US—New England mostly.”
  —Chuck Culpepper [37:30]

• On Messi’s American moment:
  “He got 88,000 people to Jordan Hare Stadium at Auburn. ... That stuff that does not happen.”
  —Tony Kornheiser [49:14]

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Timestamps (Key Segments)

• [01:52–08:34] – Epic Nationals meltdown, emotions, and reactions
• [09:30–11:48] – NFL supplemental draft & Brendan Sorsby denied entry
• [15:02–19:09] – NBA: Giannis trade analysis
• [19:09–21:20] – Julius Randle, salary/roster talk
• [21:20–32:28] – NBA Draft, Dusty May, coaching moves, analysis of picks
• [34:49–43:37] – Cape Verde at the World Cup and diaspora culture
• [43:25–49:37] – The Messi phenomenon & “GOAT” cultural debates

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Memorable Moments

• Michael Wilbon’s neighborhood walk rather than watch the Nats collapse from inside [07:12]
• Tony's take on televised drafts — "just games of bingo"
• Chuck revealing a draftee found out about his own NBA trade via a live YouTube show [28:02]
• Cape Verde supporters filling a stadium in Pawtucket, MA as part of the global diaspora celebration [40:45]
• Tony on Messi and American fandom: “I mean, I'm the person you're looking at. ... I don't particularly care about soccer one way or another, but I'm aware of him, and I see the electricity in what he does…” [47:48]

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Episode Tone

Conversational, humorous, mildly cynical, and heartfelt—a roundtable filled with storied voices, blending sports fandom, dry wit, and journalistic expertise. Whether dissecting a draft pick, marveling at global soccer oddities, or simply riffing on rum and bagels, the episode captures the full, entertaining essence of a day in the studio with Tony Kornheiser and friends.

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For a daily show that's never just about box scores, "At Their Whim" reminds us sports matter most when shared—especially if you don’t always take them too seriously.

Transcript

[Tony Kornheiser]

Hey, it's Tony. On today's show, we will talk to Brian Windhorst about the NBA draft. And also about the big trade between the Bucks and the Heat. And we'll talk about the World cup with Chuck Culpepper. But first, Commerce. Previously on the Tony Kornheiser show. On the 18th fairway, he had already hit his second shot onto the green. His caddy went to the side of the ropes where the kid's father was. The kid's father put on the bib and carried the bag. It's just a great honor. Yeah, it just wonderful. Carried the bag all the way to 18. Although the kid didn't talk to him, it seemed right, Michael. It seemed like the kid didn't talk. Gotta try to post a number, you know.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

This is General George Washington. And you're listening to the Tony Kornheiser Show. And we are complete today. Michael is back.

[Michael Wilbon]

The two rules of caddying.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Show up, shut up. Yeah, yeah. Show up, shut up.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah.

[Guest/Caller (possibly a producer or regular contributor)]

Those are the rules. Sure. Makes sense.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's. You know.

[Michael Wilbon]

It was a four iron, dad.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, ye.

[Michael Wilbon]

Do you remember the one time you caddied for me?

[Tony Kornheiser]

I do, I do. I wasn't very good at it.

[Michael Wilbon]

You were not.

[Guest/Caller (possibly a producer or regular contributor)]

Big tip at the end.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, well, no tip, no tip. Totally stiff. Big hitter. The llama.

[Michael Wilbon]

Total conscience.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. So. From Barry Snyder. Barry Snyder is the rum man. Yes, and we're very. He sends a note. Listening to the pod, it's always a thrill to hear Mr. Tony mention my name. In Panama. It's Panama Rum. I just have to advise. Don't mix the rum with Coke. Try a sip neat first. Yes, it is sweet. Rums are sweet in general. But these rums at 15 to 20 years are meant to be enjoyed without a mixer. I'd say it's closer to an Irish whiskey in smoothness than, say, a Bacardi. Okay. I don't know what a Bacardi is. That's another type of rum. That's a white rum, I think.

[Guest/Caller (possibly a producer or regular contributor)]

Yeah. It could be white light alcohol.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So. Yeah. I don't know how that works. Anyway, hope you enjoy it. Thanks so much for everything. P.S. in my head I could hear what Arch would say. Didn't try it. Don't want to try it. No, I'm going to try it. I'm going to try it. So let's do the open here. Let me just explain. Wilbourne is not on today, but Wilbon last night was yelling at me through text. How could I watch the Nats game when the NBA draft was on. Let me tell you what I believe about the NBA draft and the NFL draft and the NHL draft and the Major League Baseball draft. They all are essentially the same. To me, they are static television shows. They get a lot of ratings. People like to watch them. They want to see who their team drafts. I get all that. But to me, it's really all it is, is somebody getting up to a microphone and calling out a name or number. It's like bingo in a VFW hall to me. And Wilbur is always screaming on the television show, always screaming, just watch the games. Don't ask me who I think is going to win. That's why we watch the games. I watched a game last night. That's what I did. I watched one of the greatest, though heartbreaking games I've ever seen. The Nats in Philadelphia, in Washington, D.C. the NATs are up at the beginning of the game, through the first and the middle innings, five, nothing.

[Michael Wilbon]

Yeah. Get up to two, nothing.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Then it gets chipped away. It gets chipped away. And by the way, the two guys who I hate and don't think should be on the team, Tana and Vivas that come through were great last night.

[Michael Wilbon]

They were.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I give them credit. They were great last night. Then it gets to 5, 2. Then it gets to 5, 4. It's 5 4. The relief pitching isn't as sharp as you want it to be. And then it's another one of those.

[Michael Wilbon]

They start with the opener and then they bring.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yes. Yeah, they have a point. They started with Andy Poulin last night and they brought in Tell. And in any case, the Gnats end up being down six to five. Right. Six to five. Going into the bottom of the seventh, bottom of the eighth, going to the bottom of the eighth, bottom of the eighth, they're down six to five. They get three runs. They're up eight to five. They only have to go now. They've. Lovelady hasn't been great and Beater hasn't been great. They. They almost lost the game when James Wood, who is a fine power hitter, who last night waved at a couple of pitches and just struck out casually.

[Michael Wilbon]

It was the seventh inning. He's in runner on third.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, he didn't get the runner in. It was a bad strikeout. And you see that a lot from him. I mean, you just. You. You have to be fair in your criticism of people. You know, you just can't say he's the greatest player in Washington as they're

[Michael Wilbon]

campaigning for the All Star Game.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. You know he'll be in the All Star lineup because he's got a lot of home runs. But he waved at a couple of pitches last night. Didn't help. Didn't score a run that you're supposed to score. And then he. He runs after ball in right field and he dives and it's in the webbing of his glove. And upon landing on the grass, it gets knocked out. Yeah, gets knocked out. So they go up, the Phillies go up six to five.

[Michael Wilbon]

Before that. He had a play on a ball that was in foul territory. Really tough play. But he was there.

[Tony Kornheiser]

He was there. Tough play. But I mean, you know, there's a little bit too much just praising of his effort. You can't. Just praising the effort is 70% of the play. The ball being loose is the other 30% of the play that results in something. In any case, it doesn't matter because the Gnats go up eight to six going into the top of the ninth. They have to get three outs. They can allow one run. They have to get three outs. They have Brad Lord on the mound. He's a guy I like. Starts the inning off with two strikeouts. One was a drop strikeout and had throw to first and the other was a regular strikeout. So you now need one out.

[Guest/Caller (possibly a producer or regular contributor)]

Feeling pretty good at this point.

[Michael Wilbon]

Oh, Lord.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Well, pretty good. Trey Turner then gets a hit. Trey Turner gets a hit. Next guy hits a home run. Now it's tie game. Let me explain to you that with two out, Brad Lord got nobody else out. And then they brought in Schultz. He didn't get anybody out for a while either. The Phillies scored eight runs in the top of the ninth with two out. With two out. A complete fail.

[Michael Wilbon]

This is at the top of MLB.com too.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Is that okay? You will remember. So Wilbon will say, I don't care. I wouldn't even watch the Cubs because the draft is on. Well, Wilbourne would have that. He missed a great game. Do you remember the game in San Francisco where the Nats were up nine to one and lost the game late? This is worse. This is. This. No question. This is worse. It's at home against the division rival,

[Michael Wilbon]

game two of a four game series.

[Tony Kornheiser]

This is worse. They had this game in the bag. They made a great comeback in the bottom of the 8th. They gave up 10 runs in the last two innings. Is that what. That's what it is, right? 10 runs. It's terrible. Absolutely terrible. And thrilling. 11, 11. Gotta do the math. And absolutely thrilling at the same time. So Glad I watched it. Didn't watch any of the NBA draft. Cause it's one of those games with the number three pick.

[Brian Windhorst]

So what?

[Michael Wilbon]

It's one of those games. 12 hours later, you're sort of, you know, it's, it's crippling. You're sort of laughing at it.

[Tony Kornheiser]

It's so hard to believe I'm on the text chain. I'm the only one on. At one point I write, am I the only one watching this game? Am I talking to myself?

[Michael Wilbon]

I knew where I was. So after the Phillies take the lead, we're downstairs. I leave the house. I just start walking the neighborhood. And then I'm following on game day as my light, as I'm walking up and down the street. And they get the lead. They get the lead back. So I have to now stay outside until the game goes final.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, yeah.

[Guest/Caller (possibly a producer or regular contributor)]

And I'm just looking through the Phillies lineup.

[Tony Kornheiser]

It's the best everyday lineup in the league.

[Guest/Caller (possibly a producer or regular contributor)]

They score 14 runs and one of the best, maybe the best power.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Hitler had nothing.

[Guest/Caller (possibly a producer or regular contributor)]

Harper, nothing. And Schwaber didn't play.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Schwaber did not play. Schwaber was on pace for 61 home runs. It's hurt. And Harper did nothing.

[Michael Wilbon]

Now put this in perspective. Since the first couple weeks, the Phillies have been the best team in baseball.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Since I got Dawn Mattingly. Yeah, but you can never expect to win this game.

[Michael Wilbon]

Not at all.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Unlosable game for the Nats. It's unloosable.

[Michael Wilbon]

It also just reminds you when the Nats took the lead, they were still down by total hits during the game. So they had. It was sort of circumstance that they had to lead it all.

[Tony Kornheiser]

But man, I'm in three different conversations. I'm in a conversation with Ciliza and Chuck Todd. I'm in a. And Michael is in that one. I'm in a conversation with the socialite separately. And I include Wilbon on a couple of things, saying, how can you not watch this game? What are you watching this junk for? And Tom Jones. Not that Tom Jones. And I'm frantically typing, you know, just. It's completely memorable to me. Complete. You are forgetting.

[Michael Wilbon]

Yes, you are absolutely correct. But it's your. Your point about the text chains. It's what's so powerful about sports. It brings people together. So one of our good friends, the boys baseball coach, who's a Phillies fan, knows the exact right time to text me, say, you want to loop me in to the, to the next thread, just to get the perspective from the other dugout. He's Going to the games today and tomorrow. And what's great is he's like, you think you're going to lose the next two? I'm convinced we're going to lose the next two.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So it was really, really good. And you know, for the criticism, I will take today on the air on pti, that I didn't watch the draft. The draft's most important thing in the world. This is the same guy who hates the NFL draft. Drafts are drafts. You know, TV drafts are TV drafts. That's all they are. Again, it's a guy going B14, now serving. That's what it is, you know, to me, essentially, yes. Everybody knows it doesn't matter. There's nothing going on. Yeah, it's not a game. Nothing going on. One other thing I was very surprised about this. The quarterback from Texas Tech.

[Guest/Caller (possibly a producer or regular contributor)]

Sorsby. Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Brendan Sorsby. He's not going to the NFL. The NFL said, bounce sand, pal, we're not taking you this year. And I didn't realize this. I thought the supplemental draft was an institutionalized thing that happened every year for a couple of people, for whatever reasons. No, the NFL has had for years the priority of creating or not creating a supplemental draft. It's at their whimsical. It's not at your whim. No, it's at their whim. And they looked at this guy and they said, you know what, we don't want to touch this guy with a 10 foot pole this year. And they said, you're welcome to apply to the draft in 2027. So they're not banning him, but in effect this year they are banning him. I don't think he can go back to college. I don't know how it works. Do we have anybody who knows how it works? I don't think Texas Tech has taken him back now. I think Texas Tech panicked when the rest of the Big 12 said, what are you doing? And I think the kid relinquished his right because he was going to the supplemental draft. Advice by lawyers or advice by football people, I don't know, but I'm sure he thought they would have this draft for him. And he relinquished his right to play for Texas Tech this year and accepted apparently, maybe not, it seemed to me, accepted the ban from the ncaa. I guess he could play in the naia. I guess he could go play at a community college. I guess he could do that. Well, Binghamton, we don't have a team. We'd create a team for him, sure, you know, but. But I think, I think what the NFL said Really? No, no, no, no, no. Not so fast, my friend.

[Brian Windhorst]

No.

[Tony Kornheiser]

You have a problem, and we are not taking you in this year. That's what it seems to me happened.

[Aubrey Dale (musical guest)]

But.

[Tony Kornheiser]

But I was sort of stunned by it.

[Guest/Caller (possibly a producer or regular contributor)]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I didn't expect it like you.

[Guest/Caller (possibly a producer or regular contributor)]

I. I thought the supplemental draft happened all the time.

[Michael Wilbon]

Yeah.

[Guest/Caller (possibly a producer or regular contributor)]

I just didn't see it every year. So I was like, oh, that was interesting. And the tone of the. Of the note from the NFL was not like, hey, we know you've got a problem we want you to work through. It was like, yeah, figure it out and then come back to us maybe next year.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Tone of the NFL was, you haven't. You haven't done enough for us.

[Guest/Caller (possibly a producer or regular contributor)]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

You know, we don't see contrition. We don't know what your plan is. You know, you just can't. The NFL said, you just can't waltz in here like it's your league. It's our league, pal. That's. That's what the tone was.

[Guest/Caller (possibly a producer or regular contributor)]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

With that. So I was surprised at that. I think that's. I think that's everything, right? I mean, am I supposed to talk. We have Brian Windhor, so I don't have to talk about getting the bancer.

[Michael Wilbon]

No.

[Tony Kornheiser]

You know, I think I always thought the bancer would be the one pick. Wilbourne thought he'd be the one pick.

[Guest/Caller (possibly a producer or regular contributor)]

The kid from BYU is that.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. Wilbur knows his dad. Wilburn now is measuring everything with knowing dads. One knows Caleb Williams is there. Wilbur knows James Wood's dad. But if I said to Wilbourne, he has to catch that ball. Well, no, no, no. His dad's great.

[Michael Wilbon]

Made a great effort.

[Tony Kornheiser]

He did. He made a great effort. He made a great effort, but it gotta catch it. It didn't come to the fruition that we hoped for.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

You know, I just. It's like, look, Dylan Cruz is hitting the ball lately, but he didn't look like a major league hitter until a couple of weeks ago. And last night, I made a comment to the socialite. I wrote him, I said, he's. He's making contact all the time. Strikes out. The very next time he's up, he strikes out. As I don't. You know, you just can't predict. You can't. You. You have to look at the player in Toto, as we say. So we will take a break, and Brian Windhorst, as I said, as I advertised, will join us when we return. I'm Tony Kornheiser.

[Chuck Culpepper]

They say you can tell a lot about a person by the contents of their freezer. So what does Waddle Jagermeister say? It says you have standards, you don't cut corners. And you like your Jagermeister shots the way they're meant to be enjoyed.

[Brian Windhorst]

Ice cold.

[Chuck Culpepper]

As for the frozen taquitos and mystery

[Michael Wilbon]

leftovers, we'll keep that between us.

[Chuck Culpepper]

Drink it cold or don't drink it at all.

[Michael Wilbon]

Jagermeister.

[Brian Windhorst]

Damn, that's cold.

[Chuck Culpepper]

Drink responsibly. Jagermeister liqueur, 35% alcohol by volume. Imported by Mast Jagermeister US White Plains, New York.

[Tony Kornheiser]

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[Brian Windhorst]

Yay.

[Tony Kornheiser]

And she sent us a couple of songs. This is called should have Been Mine. She said she'd be honored to be played on this show. The honor is ours. Oh, yeah, the honor is ours. You know, she's just got a beautiful voice and you can listen to her at the end of the show. You don't have to listen to me, just listen to her. Aubrey Dale and Should have Been Mine. And she plays in Bryan Windhorst. And the segment with Bryan Windhorst is brought to you by FanDuel. Play your game. I'm not going to start with the draft because, like, the greater news, I mean, we don't really know what's going to happen with these players, you know, for a while yet. But the trading of Giannis Antetokounmpo, I mean, that's a big deal. There's three teams involved in this. There's one shadow team, Boston, that didn't get them. There's Miami and there's Milwaukee. Who do you think wins this? Who wins this trade?

[Chuck Culpepper]

Well, the best player, the best, you know, the elite talent involved is Giannis. And when the smoke cleared, he's on the Heat.

[Guest/Caller (possibly a producer or regular contributor)]

Yep.

[Chuck Culpepper]

So, you know, you have to say that the Heat won, you know, and the Bucs The. Really, the determining factor in this trade for the Bucs is going to be what happens with the two guys they took last night. You know, that's the basis for what the Bucs future is, is these two lottery picks that they had. And they went with Braden Burries, who's a shooter out of Arizona, highly regarded, and Nate Ament, who is a prospect. My God, Tony, he's so young.

[Brian Windhorst]

He.

[Chuck Culpepper]

You know, sometimes you see these guys who are 18, they look. Look like they're 24. This guy's 19, looks like he's 16. You know, he isn't. He has not met a razor yet. And, you know, in four years, this guy could be an absolute beast, or he could be in. In Europe, I don't know. You know, I don't know. But in three or four years, people might be looking because, you know, giannis was picked 15th. You know, Tony, Giannis was not even in the green room. He was in the stands. All right. They were like, you know, nobody knew how to pronounce his name right. No, nobody. You know, the next day, you weren't talking about him. You know, he kind of looked like this kid. Amen. I don't know. For all I know, they got this another Giannis last night. I don't know, but, you know, I can't answer on that question. I can't answer that. Giannis is still in his prime. He still has a lot left. He definitely has an injury, there's no doubt about it, but he's got a lot left when he's out on the court. And my. He's now on the Heat. Now, the problem is, is that the Heat team is, you know, incomplete, and the Eastern Conference has some really good teams in it. Some really, really good teams in it. And so, you know, when LeBron came to Miami, the Insta Heat were the instantaneous favorites. Like, you know, they weren't. They weren't a finished product, but, you know, everybody thought they would win, and they made the finals and lost in six. I don't ready to do that. So it's not like 2019, but it's a big acquisition, obviously.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Why do you think that Giannis was traded to Miami and not Boston? Because if he's traded to Boston, you can actually say Boston's going to win the championship this year.

[Chuck Culpepper]

Yeah, you could make that argument. I think it would be, you know, there's some things they'd have to do, but your point is not wrong. So there's a reason why this took some time and why Milwaukee hedged on it. You can imagine the discussion that must have gone on amongst their ownership and their, and their, and their general manager because obviously Jaylen Brown is a premium player. He's 29 years old. He just made second team all NBA. He just finished six in the MVP voting. He's under contract for three more years. So it's not like he can like say, I'm not reporting, you know, forget you. You know, the team has the leverage. He has this desire to go domina somewhere else to prove the world wrong, that he can win on his own. It's very attractive. But, you know, here's what I think the answer was. I think Milwaukee didn't believe that they would, that they would have a complete team. This trade was essentially Giannis for Jalen and a couple of first round picks. And that sounds good, but one of them was pick number 27 last night. You're not drafting a guy there who's going to be his running mate, you know, for the next three years. You're drafting up a prospect that may be able to be in the rotation in two years. And so I think Milwaukee was like, well, the reason we're in this, Pickles, we've got nothing left around Giannis. And they may have been in the exact same situation a year from now. They'd have Jaylen Brown. Yeah, he'd be an all NBA player and they'd be back at the lottery with nothing around him and he won out. And so I think they took the trade that refilled their organization and they just bet on that they would be able to draft two star players last night. And maybe they did, maybe they didn't, but that's what, that's where their rubber is going to meet the road on this, on this deal for Milwaukee.

[Tony Kornheiser]

There's another trade they made last night. Yeah, there was another trade yesterday that has less attention, although I like it more because that was Julius Randle just being swept off the side of the yacht into the water. Float your way to Brooklyn, pal, for nothing. What do you make of that

[Chuck Culpepper]

cash dump? So there's a few things. First off, Minnesota, you know, I think the team feels okay about this because, you know, take, you know, Randall was terrible in the playoffs.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Chuck Culpepper]

Okay. And the way his game plays and what he needs to do, he kind of needs the ball. You know, he's not a finisher. He kind of needs the ball and, you know, he's inconsistent shooter. He has moments where he's awesome, but he needs a lot of oil. He needs a lot of attention, and they move him off, and it actually aligns their roster a little bit better. It enables some guys to have bigger roles. Nas Reed to be the starter. He's a really good player. Jaden McDonald. One of the revelations of the playoffs, Tony, was Jaden McDaniels, who, you know, was running his mouth, then backed it up with some great games. It actually opens up a role for, you know, a bigger role for him. Like, that's all well and good, but they traded him for nothing.

[Guest/Caller (possibly a producer or regular contributor)]

Nothing.

[Tony Kornheiser]

33rd pick, nothing.

[Chuck Culpepper]

You. You do that. I mean, basically, what does it say to your superstar and Edwards? And I'm sure Ant is, you know, excited about Jaden's role and excited about Nas, but they needed to do something else to help their team, and now they do have this. When you trade a player for nothing into someone else's cap room, you get basically a gift certificate that $30 million for them that they can go use on another player. That. And maybe they will. Maybe they'll use it on another player. And I'll be like, oh, okay, that. That really makes sense. But I don't think they are. I think their owners are tired of paying the luxury tax. They've paid over 100 million the last three years combined, and I think they're done with it, and I think that they're going to suffer at some point because of it, and we'll see how Ant feels after that.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay. Dusty May going to Dallas. Yeah. Did anybody see this coming? Anybody?

[Chuck Culpepper]

Yeah, it was, you know, obviously none of us were talking about it on television, but it was out there in our world. Actually, when I first heard about this, Tony was. Six months ago, I heard that Dusty May, if Steve Kerr had retired, which, you know, for a while it looked like that might happen.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's right.

[Chuck Culpepper]

But believe it or not, Dusty May was near the top of the list for the. For the Warriors. He's really, you know, he sent a lot of guys to the NBA over the last couple of years. And as these executive have watched these teams play, they really like how his demeanor and the way he coaches and the way he puts teams together. And so his name really gained traction. I think he was on the list in Orlando.

[Brian Windhorst]

Wow.

[Chuck Culpepper]

And Dallas really wanted. Their ownership, really wanted a championship coach. You know, when they fired Jason Kidd, basically, if you had a ring, you got a call. Unfortunately, Boyd, you know, you're not getting Eric Spoelstra, you know, you know, Nick nurse coaches the 76ers, Ty Lu coaches the Clippers. And so he, you know, he hired A GM and Messiah Jerry, who is a championship gm, and then he hired a coach who has a championship. The fascinating thing, Tony, is that he. They drafted one of his players last night.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yes. Didn't you think they were going to do that? To take his first pick would be one of his players?

[Chuck Culpepper]

Yes. But let me just say this. Morris Johnson. So three Michigan guys went in about 20 minutes.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Chuck Culpepper]

Okay. People thought this guy would go third amongst them.

[Tony Kornheiser]

And he went one.

[Chuck Culpepper]

He. He goes one. And the amazing thing that you just would never see, Dusty May is sitting there. They had this sort of area where all the coaches sat and so that the coaches could embrace the players. Calipari seemed to get a better seat than Dusty May. If you can believe it or not. Calipari was at the main table. Dusty May, they didn't have room for him. They had him on the side, but here he is. He drafts his player. And your old coach and your new coach is embracing you in the same moment. It was a unique situation. The fascinating thing is people, you know, they're all. They're all big guys. You know, there's, you know, there's power forwards and centers. And they take this guy. And I was talking to Yaxel Leninborg, who ended up going third amongst them, and I think he was stunned that more that the guy went first. So you wonder, like, how much of an influence because, you know, they only hired him three days ago. How much of an influence did he have? They. Did they say to him, well, who's your favorite amongst these? And he's like, I like this guy. So you talk about having unique insight into players, you know, being able to have that kind of information with the coach is fascinating.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So we talk about Brooklyn being the land of the dead, being in exile at this point, and how terrible it is for Julius Randle to end up there. What about Boozer going to Memphis? Memphis is a truck stop in the NBA. Memphis is the one place that every single year people say, let's get out of Memphis. What do you make of this? That good or bad for Boozer?

[Chuck Culpepper]

I think it's going to be good for him because they can structure the team around him. If you gave him truth serum, you know, would he have preferred to go to Chicago where his father played for a while and had success? And, you know, you're in a major. I mean, somebody is going to be the star of the Chicago Bulls.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yes.

[Chuck Culpepper]

And, you know, and actually Caleb Wilson, you know, the Bulls ended up, I think, in a great spot last night getting this incredibly talented Kid out of North Carolina, Caleb Wilson with the fourth pick. If you're asking him in a blind test, would you rather be a star in a totally rebuilding team in Chicago or a star in a totally rebuilding team in mem, I think in all fairness, you take Chicago. But Memphis has shown an ability to build good teams. They don't, they're not an ability to finish. They've had disappointing finishes. But yeah, it's it. You know, they were in love with him. Honestly, I think if Memphis had might have seriously considered taking him at number two. That's how much Memphis wanted him. And yeah, I mean, a strange thing happened last night, Tony, that I don't, I still, the next morning don't even understand regarding Memphis. So I was doing this show that runs on YouTube, that's, that's on the Internet. I don't know if you've ever heard of.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I've never heard. I've heard of the Internet. I don't go on it.

[Chuck Culpepper]

Yeah, yeah, we have this, this show that runs on the IDSPN, that runs on YouTube called Hoofstreams. And so we were doing our own draft broadcast and we were giving these guys who were being drafted and this kid from Mexico really made history. A Kore Lopez, first Mexican born kid ever to get drafted in the first round. And he's had a fascinating history. He moved to Spain when he was 14 and moved to New Zealand when he was 17. And so anyway, he gets, he gets drafted by the Detroit Pistons but is very quickly traded to the, to the Grizzlies. Okay. So he goes up to the, to the podium and he hugs and shakes Adam Silver's hand. And this is, you know, everyone's talking about, you know, Mexico moment for Mexico, Mexican basketball, etc. He goes and takes his photos or whatever. He comes over to us and it's been about 15 minutes since he's been drafted. He's wearing the Pistons hat because you know how it is.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Gotta wear the hat. Yeah, yeah.

[Chuck Culpepper]

And so I'm talking to him and this is live on YouTube. You know, there's tens of thousands of people watching. It's not the ABC broadcasters, not a million, but there's tens of thousands of people. And I mentioned Memphis to him and he kind of looks at me sideways and he answers the question. Keeps going. His English is excellent. And he. And I come back to Memphis again and he like looks at me and says something like, why you say Memphis? And I was like, the Grizzlies drafted you? He's like, what? I go, yeah, you get. You got traded. You're a grizzly. And he looks at me and now screwed up, Tony, because, you know, I'm doing this during the draft that I screw up. But the Grizzlies have this kid's rights. Yeah. And the producer comes in my ear and says, yes, he's been traded. He verifies and he's wired up. He's got ear, you know, he's got a headset on. And he hears the producer say he's a grizzly and he's sort of shocked. He takes the Pistons hat and turns it around.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. Somebody get him a new hat.

[Chuck Culpepper]

And I honestly think I broke the news to this poor kid. He was going to Memphis. He thought he was going to Detroit for 15 minutes.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Well, that's. Well, yeah, that's. You know, they have to. They have to trade John Morant, don't they? They have to get rid of him, don't they? Does anyone want it?

[Chuck Culpepper]

So I would love to be able to 100% say that I think he'll never show up in a Grizzlies jersey again. I think that's likely. But it's the NBA. There's reconciliations. You know, things change. You know, there's a. I think we've seen the last of him in Memphis.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yes.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So I've got to do the show today and Wilbon's going to insist that all we do. Even though you're going to be the guest, Wilbon's going to insist that we go wall to wall with the draft because it's the most important thing in the history.

[Chuck Culpepper]

The second round. He doesn't want to analyze the second round.

[Tony Kornheiser]

No, no. He wants to go back to the first round and then do picks for the second round on the Wilbon rookie index chart and all of that. But at least he'll just sort of wallow in Caleb Wilson. Right. I mean, that's what he'll be able to do that. Is there a headline to you from the draft? Is there a headline?

[Chuck Culpepper]

Well, so I. Actually, the headline is that the Wizards chose to Bancet and it's a big giant, huge decision that could potentially define the franchise for the next 10 to 15 years. Is that enough to. I talked. You know, it's not. The draft is not my profession. But, you know, I obviously spent the last week preparing for it and I talked to like super experienced scouts that I trust and know and have great track records and they won't. One guy will make a compelling case for Debancer and then you'll Turn to the guy sitting next to him. He's got the same resume and the guy will make a compelling case for Peterson.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yes. And Jay Bilis on our show yesterday said that Carlos Boozer is the best basketball player and Caleb Wilson has the most upside. So how do you know? Right? How do you know?

[Chuck Culpepper]

Yeah, so I think, I think this went the way, I think this went the way that I would have gone if I was doing it. I think the Bansa is a little bit safer, but a little bit less upside potentially. And Peterson could end up being an mvp. Tony. But they're on the pie chart of possibilities that could happen. I think there's a Ben Simmons slice

[Tony Kornheiser]

on there for him and so for Peterson.

[Chuck Culpepper]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Billis said of Peterson, he could lead the league in scoring immediately. He's, he can, he cannot be stopped. He's that good.

[Chuck Culpepper]

Yeah. So that's a bigger piece of the pie chart.

[Michael Wilbon]

Yeah.

[Chuck Culpepper]

And I think as the Wizards were looking at it, they were like, I think they went with the, with, with the mildly safe. Like the Bansa could be a 6 or 8 or 12 time all star. Like he could be an all Star every year. Peterson could win an MVP award. But Peterson also just has some aspects of his personality that are just a little bit concerning. Not, you know, not like, oh man, this is a roll the dice. And, and he sort of fits where the Wizards are. He's going to play with Trey Young and Anthony Davis. I think. I think the bands will average 20, 20 points his rookie year. I think he'll come in and be great. But I agree with Jay. I think Peterson, you know, like Derrick Rose won MVP his third year. Peterson could, it's, it's, it's on the board. I'm not saying he's going to do that. It's on the board as a possibility. But he also, you know, it's not his, his, his profile is a little bit different from other players. So. Yeah, the headline to me is the Wizards went in with the Bansa and now we will see whether that choice was a gold mine or they got a silver mine. Yeah, gold mine went too. We'll see.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Well, their history indicates that they do it wrong. But you know, they, they took, the last two times they had it. They took Kwame Brown, who was a failure. I played in the league for a long time, but was a failure as a number one pick. And they took John Wall who flamed out early and, and, and then ended up being paid to stay away.

[Chuck Culpepper]

Referred to as a. John Wall is referred to as A wizard's legend.

[Brian Windhorst]

By who?

[Chuck Culpepper]

You know that.

[Tony Kornheiser]

By who.

[Chuck Culpepper]

By the Wizards. By the wizards.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. They don't know what they're talking about. They don't know what they're doing. Yeah. All right, I'll see you later on tv. Thanks.

[Chuck Culpepper]

Okay. Have a great day.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Brian Windhorse, boys and girls.

[Brian Windhorst]

Love him.

[Tony Kornheiser]

This segment with Brian Windhorse has been brought to you by FanDuel. Play youy Game and we will come back with Chuck Culpepper. Good show today. I'm Tony Kornheiser. Study and play come together on a Windows 11 PC.

[Chuck Culpepper]

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[Tony Kornheiser]

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[Chuck Culpepper]

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[Michael Wilbon]

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[Tony Kornheiser]

Where is Daredevil?

[Brian Windhorst]

A minor.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Don't miss the return of Marvel Television's Daredevil Born Again.

[Chuck Culpepper]

So what's next?

[Tony Kornheiser]

I feel liberated. We're gonna take this city back over medicated in an all new season now streaming only on Disney.

[Brian Windhorst]

Plus.

[Tony Kornheiser]

They're hunting us.

[Chuck Culpepper]

It's time we started hunting them.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I can work with them.

[Chuck Culpepper]

This should be tons of fun.

[Brian Windhorst]

Marvel Television's Daredevil Born Again now streaming only on Disney.

[Tony Kornheiser]

You're listening to the Tony Kornheiser show. Once again. This is Aubrey Dale is just fabulous.

[Guest/Caller (possibly a producer or regular contributor)]

Better than me? Better than you?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Oh, yeah, sure.

[Guest/Caller (possibly a producer or regular contributor)]

Just fabulous.

[Aubrey Dale (musical guest)]

Fabulous.

[Tony Kornheiser]

This is called Fireweed. Michael. If terrific singers, independent music artists like Aubrey Dale want to send in their music for us to play, how do they do it?

[Michael Wilbon]

Send us your music by emailing it

[Tony Kornheiser]

to jinglesonyquonizershow.com and she plays in Chuck Culpepper. And you know, most of the time I have 15, 18 questions prepared and I get to four or five or six. I don't really have any questions prepared because Chuck is all over the world all the time and has a new gig and apparently they're letting him write. Would you see if you're going to hire Chuck Culpepper, let him write. That's how it works. Where have you been? What are you doing in general?

[Brian Windhorst]

I have been a lot in Massachusetts and Rhode Island, a little bit Connecticut. Hanging out with the diaspora of Cabo Verde or Cape Verde, the island country 400 miles off the coast of West Africa that has been the darling of the entire World Cup. And to be around the fans and the people who welcomed the team to the country back in early June, it was a whole series of events that I went to. Has been one of the. I don't know how to rank experiences anymore, but it's been one of the best ones I can ever recall. And now, of course, their team has drawn with both Spain and Uruguay and has a chance to make it through to the knockout round, which for the third smallest country in population and second smallest in size ever to qualify for the World cup, is just really, really something. I wish I had been in Cabo Verde itself, because that must be really something.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So this is an odd thing. The other day we had a story set to go about soccer, and it got bumped out because Messi scored two more goals. So we had to concentrate on Messi. That became the lead story. But I had. I was prepared to talk a little bit about Cape Verde because I was fascinated by it at first. Matt Kelleher. Kelleher said to me, it's only two and a half square miles. I said, no, it can't be two and a half square miles. Doesn't make any sense. It's gotta be bigger than that. I said, what's the population? He said, it's like 500,000. And what I was gonna talk about is Baltimore has more people than Cape Verde. You see Baltimore in the World Cup? Cause I don't. I don't. This is the achievement of Curacao, the achievement of Iceland, the achievement of Cape Verde, even with an expanded field, although I think Iceland got in when it was 32 and not 48. This is extraordinary. Beyond, beyond words, right? I mean, it's beyond words. And they've tied. They've tied. And I know this because Kelleher told it to me. In the history of the World cup, there have only been eight countries that won it. Uruguay and Spain are two of them. And Cape Verde just tied both of them. How can this be?

[Brian Windhorst]

I don't know if we can. If there's any way to explain it at all. And I think that that's one of the best possibilities that happen with sports, is there are these things that come along that can't be explained. I think, you know, they have. They have a league there in the country. They have more people living outside the country than they do more citizens living outside the country than they do people living in the country. And that's because historically, it just doesn't rain enough. And People have had to leave. And those who have left tell these stories about, say, for example, as they were kids, day long ventures to do the laundry, involving two hour walks to, you know, to find a place that has water and then drying the clothes on the rocks and then coming back. And that story, just as an example, sort of tells us the hardship at times through history of living there. And the people who hail from there, whose parents or grandparents come from there, have great fondness for the land and for the country, but often, you know, go away to say, the Netherlands or the U.S. new England mostly.

[Tony Kornheiser]

This is, yeah, this is. So I'm having this conversation in PTI and you know, before we go down to the set and Wilbon says, everybody from Cape Verde comes to America. They all settle in Boston.

[Brian Windhorst]

I go, what?

[Tony Kornheiser]

And he says, no, it's true. And Chuck, you're gonna tell me it's true, right? They're all in Boston.

[Brian Windhorst]

Why? I was, about 10 years ago, I was having a conversation with someone from there whose family had settled in Boston. And I never thought to ask sort of what, you know, it didn't seem to make sense to me. But again, here's something that I learned during the story, which is that it all has its origins, say in the 19th century in the whaling industry.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay.

[Brian Windhorst]

And out on the seas, the whaling ships from New England, especially New Bedford, Massachusetts, started bringing people from Cape Verde to the US and there's a whaling museum, fantastic place in New Bedford. And of course we, you know, whaling, the last whaling ship left and came back around 1925, so we don't do that anymore. It's still a major fishing port. But you know, it, it caused and led to when, you know, when I was there a few weeks ago, they had a fashion show to welcome the team, a friendly match with Bermuda. In Hartford, they had a full stadium, welcoming the team with just a ceremony. That was in Pawtucket and it's all up there. And it's quite a story of how it got there.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Do they have a national stadium in Cape. Is it Cape Verde is how. It's how it's pronounced. Do they have a national stadium there? You said they have a league there. Do they have like a big stadium?

[Brian Windhorst]

They do, they do. And you know, they qualified last October and they won their group. They won their qualifying group. Cameroon, which has a great soccer history, you know, quarterfinals in the 1990 World cup in Italy. Cameroon finished second in that group behind this tiny country. And they do have a stadium there and in the capital, Praia and others too. I will say that all their players, the 26 players here play in leagues mostly across Europe. You know, a lot of them in Portugal and some in places like Finland or Cyprus or the UAE. Two players in MLS. So all 26 players, while 12 of them were born in the country and six in the Netherlands because they have a huge.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Well, this. This is not surprising. Half the people on the United States team don't speak English. You know, they're not. They're not from here. They didn't trace their ancestry. That's on. What language do they speak in Cape Verde?

[Brian Windhorst]

Okay, so it's Portuguese as the official language.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay.

[Brian Windhorst]

There is a Cabo Verdian Creole that they speak, sort of. That's the one in that. In the day to day you know, gets things done. And there were. There are 10 islands, nine of them inhabited, and one is supposedly, you know, stunningly beautiful with amazing turtles, but is uninhabited. And so. Yeah, so they.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's where they send you if you commit a crime, you go to that island with the turtles. It's uninhabitable. It's like having the 19th hole with Rehoboth and they take a whole lot of play all the time, and then you go play 19. It's like. This is like, who. They have one more game, right?

[Brian Windhorst]

They got one more game with Saudi Arabia.

[Tony Kornheiser]

If they win that. Not even if they win. If they tie that and they're 003, are they moving on?

[Brian Windhorst]

Let me think. They are on two points. They could. A lot of it depends on the Spain, Uruguay match. That's coming up too, as well.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Right.

[Brian Windhorst]

So they have quite a chance to move on, which is just. Even in an expanded field, it's just. It defies description or belief.

[Guest/Caller (possibly a producer or regular contributor)]

Are you.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Are you a soccer fan? Because, I mean, I'm not. Oh, you are. Did you play as a kid? Like, do you. Oh, you're not a soccer poet, though. You're not gonna, like. You're not gonna tell me how stupid I am because I don't appreciate the beautiful game. You're not gonna do that?

[Brian Windhorst]

No, I. No, I don't believe in being one of those.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, but no, I. Subaru driving a lot of people. I don't like them.

[Brian Windhorst]

Go ahead. I didn't know that much about it, but I moved to the UK in 2006, and then I started learning things such as that when a match is listed, the home side is listed first. You know how we say. I don't know, what do we say? Like Buffalo at New England.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. The home side's Always second with us all.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. Yeah. So I was about to go, you know, to the wrong town when I started off there. And then I steadily kind of learned, you know, things about it and. And some of the language. I feel I don't follow it as well as I should, because, for example, if you follow college football and then try to watch the English Premier League on the same Saturday, or you tend to be up from, you know, 6:00am to 4 in the morning or something like that, so I don't do as well as I'd like, but I really love it.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Is there. Are there. Will you move on if they don't? Yeah, we are. What's the next assignment? Are you going to be with the World cup the whole way through?

[Brian Windhorst]

I'm not quite clear on that, actually. I don't know. Don't know for sure.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, I remember. I will watch the final game, I'm sure, and I'll complain about it and I'll watch it by myself and. And make jokes about why I don't like it. But it is. It is. You know, they're in fabulous condition and they. They're great athletes. I mean, soccer is one of the few sports where you can be of average size and succeed. Right. Isn't that one of the. The attractions of soccer? You don't have to be 6, 10.

[Brian Windhorst]

Right. That's right. And look at no further than Messi.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, it's.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. So, you know, he's a great example of that. Yes.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Is he? You know, it's sort of automatic. When you watch tv, people say, oh, he's the goat. And I'm old enough to remember Pele. He's not the goat. Or is he the goat?

[Brian Windhorst]

You know, I think. I think like you do about this, I think there's so much push to have a goat and to have it be current.

[Michael Wilbon]

Yeah.

[Brian Windhorst]

But I. I do think what's happening in this World cup is going to cement for a lot of people the idea that he's the goat. Because not only that, he scored. What is it? Five goals.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Five goals in two games.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, but how they've looked, you know, the whole idea of how they've looked is just. I believe today is his birthday as well, so 39.

[Tony Kornheiser]

It's pretty old. It's not as old as Ronaldo in Portugal, but it's pretty old.

[Brian Windhorst]

Right, but I'm with you. I just. I don't like to overlook Pele or Maradona.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Here's my feeling about Messi. We in America are inclined towards him now because of his experience by going to the mls because of being in Miami, because of the pink shirts, because of all of that, because of his accessibility and his greatness. I mean, usually these people come here when they're done and, you know, maybe they get a goal once in a while, but he's the best player in that league, and he's the best player ever in the United States, right? He's the best.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yes, that's right. And when we behold something like that, I think it's fair to say that as a people, we're, like, loud.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Brian Windhorst]

So when we behold something like that, it gets loud. So. And even though I wouldn't say. I. I wouldn't say that as he's played there in Miami, I don't know, it doesn't permeate the sports culture. We don't. I don't think people who don't have a love for soccer follow him match to match. But there's something about the presence that, you know, that makes him more accessible to us now.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, I mean, I'm the person you're looking at. I mean, I don't particularly care about soccer one way or the other, but I'm aware of him, and I see the electricity in what he does, and I see the way he is responded to by teammates and by other people in the soccer world. And I think, you know what my essence of an answer is? I don't know much about this, but something special about him. Doesn't he sort of transmit that?

[Brian Windhorst]

Yes, yes. And, you know, you think of. There's a beautiful writer, Rory Smith, who, you know, has written for the New York Times at Time, and he wrote this. Just this. He went to Kansas City to Messi's first match during this World cup, and he wrote this, again, beautiful thing about. And he, you know, he has watched it all his life, unlike someone like myself or who kind of tried to learn at age 40, whatever. So he, you know, when I listened to him, and I know him a little bit, and I listened to him, and he wrote this column in the observer in London about that match and about what it's like to watch Messi, and it really sort of solidified or bolstered for me that people who know the sport in their bones also feel something watching Messi that they don't feel watching anybody else.

[Tony Kornheiser]

He got 88,000 people to Jordan Hare Stadium at Auburn. They put the War Eagle out there for him. You know, that stuff that does not happen. Right?

[Brian Windhorst]

That's right. That's the detail that tells. All right. The sort of the eccentric detail that tells the central tale.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, like most people that care about SEC football would say of soccer. Wait, you're not using your hands.

[Chuck Culpepper]

What?

[Michael Wilbon]

Huh?

[Brian Windhorst]

What?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Anyway. All right, Chuck, thanks. It's always nice to talk with you. Even if we have nothing. It's just nice to talk with you. Thank you.

[Brian Windhorst]

Thank you so much, Tony.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Thank you, Chuck Culpepper. Boys and girls, we will take a break. We'll have email and jingle. I'm Tony Kornheiser.

[Michael Wilbon]

You thought this was your Run Club era. Turns out it was more of a thinking about Run Club era. The good news, someone's marathon training is about to start. Sell your workout gear on depop. Just snap a few photos and we'll take care of the rest. They get their race day fit and you get a payout for trying. Someone on depop wants what you've got. Start selling now, Depop. Where taste recognizes taste.

[Tony Kornheiser]

This is the Tony Kornizer Show. That is Bill Pitcher. If I have this correct. Quarryville, Pennsylvania. It sticks in my mind.

[Guest/Caller (possibly a producer or regular contributor)]

I will have to check on that.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I don't know, but that's wonderful.

[Guest/Caller (possibly a producer or regular contributor)]

Wonderful.

[Tony Kornheiser]

You want to do the Bethesda bagel ad?

[Guest/Caller (possibly a producer or regular contributor)]

Yes, Bethesda bagels. We love them. You will as well. Just go to BethesdaBaggles.com for the location in the DC area near Shoe. Then pop on in and you'll be thrilled. I want to give a quick shout out to our friend Greg Garcia.

[Tony Kornheiser]

You can see him perform at the Draft House.

[Guest/Caller (possibly a producer or regular contributor)]

Yeah. The Arlington Cinnamon Drafthouse this Friday and Saturday. There's four shows, two a night. He's opening up for Nick Thune. So head on by.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Nick Thune is a guy who. Who goes on the road with Bargett, right? With Bargett?

[Guest/Caller (possibly a producer or regular contributor)]

I believe so, yes.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's what I think. Okay. By the way, we have bagels today in honor of Michael's return. I'm happy about that. Before we get to the mail, Michael's return.

[Michael Wilbon]

I was gone for three days.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Life goes on day after day Stopped

[Michael Wilbon]

at the county Hearts torn in every

[Tony Kornheiser]

way home so fairy caused the mersey cause this land's the place I love and here I'll say that's Jerry and the Pacemaker. It's a beautiful song, really. Thanks to our guests today, Brian Windhorse and Chuck Culpepper. Thanks as well to today's sponsors. Remember, you can listen to us on Apple Podcast. Spotify and Odyssey get showed through Apple Podcasts. Please leave us a review from Chris in Arlington, Virginia. Dear Tony, please tell Mr. Sam, not Samuel Neal, to eat it. Sincerely, his opposing counsel, who was haunted by his name popping up on the stinking podcast during a Monday flight to sit in a windowless conference room with Sam Neill. Wait, could it be that Sam Neill. Connective tissue is one thing, and blessings be unto David Aldridge and his moments. But I never expected to settle in before a deposition by asking another lawyer. This is random. Maybe too personal. Did you happen to play golf in a father son tournament this past weekend? Were you really nice to the group ahead of you? His immediate laugh and then the simple question Kornheiser gave me. My answer sparked a great conversation about this podcast, PTI and family. Well, a great conversation for two of us. Everyone else in the room, not so much. Lovely.

[Michael Wilbon]

Did you ask about his devastating curveball from Little League?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Struck out like 16 guys.

[Michael Wilbon]

He's working arm angle early.

[Tony Kornheiser]

From Brian Rigsby in Elon, North Carolina. I'm in Omaha for the College World Series. I was looking for something to do when I thought of a piece that Ryan McGee did about a small store with College World Series memorabilia. When I go inside, who was there but Ryan McGee.

[Guest/Caller (possibly a producer or regular contributor)]

How about that?

[Tony Kornheiser]

I was able to buy a copy of his book Road to Omaha and get him to sign it. As he was signing it, I told him I had one thing to say to him. Leches. He laughed and said that was the last thing he expected to hear on a street in Omaha. I can now mark off the David Aldridge moment on my Tony Bingo card. Isn't that wonderful?

[Guest/Caller (possibly a producer or regular contributor)]

That's great.

[Tony Kornheiser]

From Mark Hughes in Ashton, Maryland. Dear Skipper, I see that the Delaware Amateur Golf Tournament is being played on your home track at Rehoboth Beach Country Club. Looking at the first round scores, I see six scores of 90 or higher, including one of 99. Assuming these are 120 of the finest golfers in Delaware, and knowing you never shoot higher than 99, does this mean you are one of the 120 best golfers in Delaware? I know it's a small state, but it would still seem to be pretty good. P.S. do you belong to any other courses holding state amateur championships this year besides Columbia and rbcc? I didn't know Rehoboth was holding.

[Michael Wilbon]

Yeah, I'm looking at the leaderboard right now.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Is Jay in it?

[Michael Wilbon]

I don't. I'm not going that far down.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Well, Jay should be near the top.

[Michael Wilbon]

I don't his name right now.

[Tony Kornheiser]

He's. He's been the Delaware champion before. Jay Whitby. He's right.

[Michael Wilbon]

He's really T29 through the two rounds.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Oh, so he's in it?

[Chuck Culpepper]

Yeah.

[Michael Wilbon]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay, so that's lovely. Carla Corrado, Columbus, Ohio. Because I am an usher for Ohio State football games at the shu, I get noticed for opportunities around Columbus to work other events like concerts and theater productions. I was thrilled to learn the US Senior Open at Sea Ota. Is that how it's pronounced? Sea Ota Country Club. Yeah, that's Nicholas's original course where he grew up playing. Was looking for volunteers while we get paid to work all the other gigs. I figured it'd be fun to help keep spectators behind the ropes and yell the cheesery at Sansi even without the cash incentive. Alas. Read the fine print. We volunteers are required to pay $150 a day to park cars, direct patrons to the restroom and work the concession. We do get a free T shirt. I believe this is the inverse of the heated toilet seat 2 bathroom experience. Yours cheaply, Carla Corrado, from Ken Scudder in Takoma Park. You're not a rum person, so safe to assume you don't like pina coladas. How do you feel about getting caught in the rain? Are you into yoga? Do you have half a brain? I'll refrain from asking about your feelings regarding sexual congress behind sand dunes. So this is what's his name?

[Guest/Caller (possibly a producer or regular contributor)]

Yeah, yeah. God, I can't remember who sings it.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Whatever. It's him. That's a funny.

[Michael Wilbon]

Rupert Holmes.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Rupert Holmes. That's right. It's his one big hit. Yeah, yeah, that's fine. Norm Chaffetz, Austin, Texas. So you're not a rum guy. Gets that makes you a rum dum.

[Brian Windhorst]

That's funny.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's funny. From Neil Ervays. Watching the ceremonies opening the Obama Presidential center from afar, I was awed by the eloquence, passion and intelligence of the presenters and the program, all of which was amplified and humanized by Michael Wilbon's wonderful impressions of that day. To hear Wilbon, who was rarely impressed and never surprised to be so humbled, resonated in a uniquely emotional manner. How he described the speeches in the overall atmosphere with such heartfelt reverence and grace was exceptionally moving. Do please express our gratitude for such a beautiful shared memory and thanks to you two for sharing your friendship and providing the littles these and so many other memorable conversations. Yeah, like this one. You're not watching the draft? No, not Ron Grujet. Ski has a very nice small library. What's he talking about? Greenwood, Delaware. That's the first little town you go through on the trip from Delaware? Yeah, it's the first one. It's not Ellendale, it's Greenwood. They also have. They have an Italian restaurant there.

[Guest/Caller (possibly a producer or regular contributor)]

Yes.

[Tony Kornheiser]

You know, the name of which I will remember when I get off the air. And that's. And you pass Vanderwyn's when you. When you begin to slow up to go into the town, to go into Greenwood. They have a lovely library.

[Guest/Caller (possibly a producer or regular contributor)]

Is the restaurant called Villapiano's?

[Tony Kornheiser]

No, it's not Villa.

[Michael Wilbon]

Cafe Tambolli's.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Tamborelli's. Tamborrilli's, yeah. Greenwood, Delaware has a very nice small library just off Route 16 by the railroad tracks.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I leave my hardbound and paper books there after they've been read. Isn't that nice? And Ronnie Kujet ski is from Lewis and Gaithersburg. Don Ames in Kingston, Ontario and Canada. I would like to make the new game ideal requirements for the Kornheiser tier of the Capital Weather Gang's new venture. So I'll start. Wind speed checks for the Bay Bridge 247 measured in the Wilbond speed index, which I assume is about 250 miles an hour. Heat index notifications for hot bagel days, a representative button on the app from Media, Chevy Chase and Rehoboth weather updates. This place stinks. Smog alerts. And one more. I also had a jean jacket. My opinion? Chicks always look better than men in them. Dj, if you're out, that's a nice do. Wear white.

[Michael Wilbon]

What does Argo mean?

[Brian Windhorst]

I don't know.

[Michael Wilbon]

You don't know?

[Tony Kornheiser]

It means Argo.

[Aubrey Dale (musical guest)]

Boy, I've been watching you. Hooked on your every move. I know this bar is closing soon, but the band's got one more song we're both singing along. Right here with you is where I belong. I don't want to wake up, up tomorrow Wondering where you are, who you with, what I missed. But if I did I'd be saying you should have been my last night. With the lights down low in my arms dancing to that star song overplay on the radio. Should have been your hand holding mine. You and me, baby, taking our time. Pretend like we got nowhere else to go. She'll have been mine. I know you came with her. She's pretty and great, I'm sure. But if you had met me first. You see that you fit me like a dream. Now I'll give you everything. Give it a shot and I know you'll see. I don't want to wake up tomorrow morning where you are, who you with What I miss but if I did I'd be safe should have been my last night with the lights I'm all in my arms dancing to that song that overplay on the radio should have been your head holding mine. You and me baby taking our time Pretend like we got nowhere else to go should have been. I don't want to wake up tomorrow wandering where you are, who you're with, what I missed but if I did I'd be saying should have been my last night with the light Stumble in my arms dancing to that slow song that overplay on the radio it should have been your hand holding mine. You and me biggie taking our time Pretend like we got nowhere else to go should have been. My. I've been burned by a dead end road Scattered my ash as far as they could go I'm learning that letting go set me free now I'm coming back up like fire weed. I've made a few left turns Learn some lessons I can unlearn I've loved so hard I thought I'd die. But I lived to see the other side and it turns out you can't change choices you didn't make all you can do is learn to fly I've been burned by dead and rose scared of. Sometimes things have to end. So know that you can start again. Now with the new. Start a fire then watch it blow Then just let it rain wait day watch the sun begin to. Like. My ash as far as they could go I'm learning that letting go set me free now I'm coming back up like fireweed.