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- [00:00]
Tony Kornheiser
It's Tony. On today's show, we'll go around the NFL with Jason Lock and Fora. But we're going to avoid that thrilling contest last night between the Bears and the Seahawks. Plus, James Carville and Jeff Ma will call in with their weekly picks. First, we got to keep the sales weasels happy.
- [00:13]
Commercial Announcer
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- [00:50]
Tony Kornheiser
Michael, how's South Carolina? Is it warmer than here?
- [00:53]
Michael Wilbon
It's warmer than where you are, but it is cold for down here. We've had mornings in the mid to high 30s. You know, you're still getting out. The kids are playing. Playing a little golf, but good. No, this is about just celebrating family being together.
- [01:04]
Tony Kornheiser
Can I read you a nice note?
- [01:06]
Michael Wilbon
Sure.
- [01:06]
Tony Kornheiser
This is from Douglas Tilted.
- [01:07]
Michael Wilbon
Is it a continuation of your criticizing my memory? No, All I could think about was cats. When you get into that open yesterday.
- [01:13]
Tony Kornheiser
I envy your memory.
- [01:15]
Michael Wilbon
Good for the Kirchen kids. They could get to two. I stopped at one.
- [01:18]
Tony Kornheiser
Yeah.
- [01:23]
Commercial Announcer
The Tony Cornheiser show is on now.
- [01:26]
Tony Kornheiser
Did you go out to dinner last night? Right. You went out to dinner?
- [01:29]
Michael Wilbon
Went out to dinner. I sound like I'm hiding from my family in that open.
- [01:33]
Tony Kornheiser
Well, you know, don't worry about it. So. So tell people what you wore to dinner. This important.
- [01:39]
Michael Wilbon
So the last two years I've been shopping, I wanted to upgrade my menswear, so I went to just a great local department store, was trying on still 42 long, and I got this great navy blazer, very lightly, lightly worn. And I got it from your closet. So the price was right.
- [01:54]
Tony Kornheiser
Yeah. Yeah. And it had no moth holes. They haven't attacked the jackets yet.
- [01:59]
Michael Wilbon
Yes, I texted you last night. I got. I got them out of the house just in time.
- [02:03]
Tony Kornheiser
Yeah, that's good. It's good to know. Okay, a couple of things to mention. Jim Laraniga, who started calling himself Jim Laraniaga when he went to the University of Miami, where he did very well. He made a final four as he had at George Mason. He's a great coach. He's Been around an awfully long time. He's Almost my age, 75 years old. He's left Miami, had two bad seasons in a row, and I'm sure he wanted to guarantee that his number one assistant could at least get a chance at keeping the job by turning the season around. Maybe they're 4 and 8 or 5 and 10 or whatever. It doesn't really matter. I've known Jim Larnega a long time. I like him. New York City kid, played high school basketball around the time that Lou Alcinder was playing high school basketball. A little bit after that, he's. Yeah, you know, good luck to him. I mentioned that briefly. I don't really even want to mention the Seattle Chicago Bears game. Oh, Thriller. It was just. It was drudgery.
- [02:56]
Jason Lockhart
Six, three.
- [02:56]
Tony Kornheiser
It was.
- [02:56]
Michael Wilbon
Just stayed up for the entire thing. It was fantastic. Oh, you know, clock mismanagement, timeouts taken at bad times.
- [03:03]
Tony Kornheiser
They own. They. They fired their coaches. The people they hired are no good.
- [03:09]
Michael Wilbon
Seven sacks, it felt like a million.
- [03:11]
Tony Kornheiser
They're in the process of killing Caleb Williams.
- [03:13]
Jason Lockhart
They really are.
- [03:14]
Tony Kornheiser
He's been sacked and hit more than any quarterback in the league. They're in the process of killing. This happens sometimes. This happened to David Carr in Houston, the overall number one pick. He got hit so much the first two. He never was any good. That they're killing him. They don't. I don't. I haven't talked to Mike about this. I don't think Mike will say they're killing him. Maybe he will, but, you know, he's the number one overall draft pick. He's had some wonderful games, but his body is getting battered. Yeah, absolutely battered. And they're not doing him a favor. The coaching still, the whole organization from top to bottom, needs to be redone. It needs to be redone. I'll stop about that. What I want to get to is the NBA on Christmas Day. A particular comment by LeBron James.
- [04:00]
Michael Wilbon
Mark your calendar.
- [04:01]
Tony Kornheiser
LeBron James, who is one of the greatest players of all time. And now at age 40, is he about to be 40 this week? I think LeBron James is probably the greatest older basketball player of all time because other people didn't play that long. He's still great. He went out there and he had a game in the NBA scheduled. The only game they should schedule ever on Christmas night is LeBron against Steph. Because we're running out of days, maybe six, respectively. Okay, maybe we have one more year. Maybe. Maybe not. Maybe this was it. You put them out there because they are your two Biggest stars. The third biggest star is Kevin Durant. He is not as big as either of these guys. He doesn't have as many rings as either of these guys. He hasn't pleased people in the way that these guys have. They are the two biggest stars. Please, please don't talk to me about Luka Doncic or Shay Gilgis Alexander or Jason Tate. No, stop. No. These guys have been around nearly 20 years. They are all time great players. They with Kevin Durant won the Olympics last summer. Not the others. They want to now the others, many of them were ineligible to play on the United States team. But LeBron James, Steph Curry and Kevin Durant won the Olympic gold medal for the United States. So of course you put them out there and of course they're going to get the highest rating of the five. Count them, five NBA games on Christmas Day. You know why they're going to get the highest rating? Because they are the two best known players and because they're not opposite the NFL. The NFL's done by 7:00. 7:30 at night. That game didn't post till 8:00, right?
- [05:48]
Jason Lockhart
That's right.
- [05:48]
Tony Kornheiser
Got the highest rating of the five NBA games. Got a rating. It peaked. It got an average. It peaked at 8.3 million. 8.3 million people were watching that game. When I remind you the NFL was not on and was not on the streaming service it was on. That is unavailable still to most. What hasn't been bought. It's available. Hasn't been bought by most people in the United States of America. Up against the game on ABC that everybody gets. If you have a TV. If you have a TV that's broken that you bought in 1940 with your parents buying it. If you have that, that still gets. ABC still gets it. Every television in the world gets ABC. Okay. It peaked at 8.3 million. That's great. The NBA's ratings over their five games average 5.25 million viewers. That is the most watched Christmas Day in five years.
- [06:55]
Jason Lockhart
Yes.
- [06:55]
Tony Kornheiser
That's great. One know what the NFL did? The NFL peaked at 27 million. That's three times plus more than LeBron and staff peaked at 27 million. Average 24.2 million over their two games on a streaming service that not half the people in the United States have access. They have access to. They don't have it. They didn't buy it. They don't own it. Yeah. Okay, so it destroyed by a factor of five on the average and a factor of three plus against the two greatest stars. That the NBA has. The NFL destroyed them. A lot of people are saying, you know, LeBron's quote is, I love the NFL, but Christmas is our day. Well, no, no, you did a very smart thing. The NBA did a very smart thing.
- [07:51]
Michael Wilbon
Christmas was our day.
- [07:52]
Tony Kornheiser
Whose season is way too long, regardless of what Mike Sundays, they play 82 games. What they do in October and November and until Christmas day is onto pasto. It's nothing. Nobody's paying attention. Nobody. The ratings stink relative to their ratings. Not relative to other. Relative to their ratings. The ratings stink. People are rejecting the product as a whole. They don't want to watch the whole game. Maybe they want to watch highlights. They don't watch the whole game. The ratings are down. They did a very smart thing. X years ago, I said, let. Let's go on Christmas day. Let's put our product on Christmas day. Let's really make it the launch of our season. Because nobody's paid attention to the first 30 games. It's very, very smart. You know what happens when somebody puts out a drink that everyone likes? Let's just. Just say Coca Cola. Along comes Pepsi Cola, along comes nine other. Because people say there is a market for this kind of drink. Let me get involved. The NFL sat down for a few years, and then somebody stood up and said, whoa, whoa, wait. Why do they have this game this day? What? Why can't we have this day? And then eyes lit up in a room, and somebody must have said, crush them like ants. That's what happened. And that's what happened. And when people write stories about how the NFL is a leviathan, how the NFL just is after money. Well, you don't think the NBA is after money. You don't think the NHL is after money. You don't think the baseball is after. What are you nuts? Everybody's after money. The NFL has a product that more people want to see, Right? You don't own Christmas. You own it. You own it only as long as the NFL lets you own it. And you're really just leasing it because the NFL is coming in whenever they come in. Michael, we talked privately.
- [09:58]
Michael Wilbon
I love how. I just love how calculated the NFL was, which is we're going to tease out this NFL by putting it on, you know, what you'd call regular TV first. And then we're going to do the switcheroo and put it on streaming and see if that actually makes a difference. And it makes a small difference, but not enough relative to the overall, you know, share of what people are watching on Christmas day.
- [10:17]
Tony Kornheiser
And it's, it's the most watched NFL game in history. Right? Maybe I just love that you start.
- [10:23]
Michael Wilbon
By using word when you talk about, you know, LeBron and, and Curry. Just about the idea of pleasing, pleasing an audience and the entertainment value of that and just all the different factors that go into that. Whether it's rivalry that exists over 20 years, whether it's the history of, of playoffs, whether it's just sort of this, you know, collective experience of age and what that has allowed them to be a part of over, over that scope of time. But there's theatrics to what they do. When you think about why someone goes to an arena to see Steph Curry do his warmups, there's theatrics to that. When you think about LeBron, you know, throwing up the powder in the air, there's theatrics that, that's power, that's, that's not just, you know, faceless players that you see coming for a couple of, you know, a couple of seasons who are chucking up threes from the half court line. But we were talking about this yesterday and I immediately went to something that is more in my wheelhouse, which is golf and what they've been trying to figure out, which is golf, Golf TV and what the future golf looks like in this post Tiger. You want to even include post Tiger and Phil world. And you try to get something that emerges with the crypto showdown with Rory and with Brooks, with Bryson. There's just, yeah, there's a missing element that comes into, you know, that comes into rivalry. And it has to be this combination of playoffs and the regular season, just meaningful matchups over, over a certain amount of time.
- [11:45]
Tony Kornheiser
So I watched, I watched a lot of LeBron and Steph Curry. I'll always go to the TV to watch them. They're great players, as Michael said, proved it over a long period of time. You don't know how many years you're going to still get them. But, but the NFL is the thing that people want to see. They want to see it. And the people, they still want to.
- [12:08]
Michael Wilbon
See it in its totality. They don't just want to watch the clips of the game.
- [12:12]
Tony Kornheiser
That's right.
- [12:12]
Michael Wilbon
They want to sit down and watch the arc of the game. And so you think about the NBA holding on to what these number means about impressions on social media. You want to go, you've actually, you've created this ecosystem that's built around TV money and contracts.
- [12:25]
Tony Kornheiser
Yes, ESPN and now NBC and Turner tried, but they lost out they throw billions of dollars at a product that nobody seems to want to see the way they did even as few as five years ago. So there's a problem. The NBA, you know, the people who are slavishly devoted to the NBA, even they understand there's a problem. They don't know necessarily how to fix it. I certainly don't know how to fix it. But the. But what is being shown to you now with the emphasis on three point shots and people fanning out, is not sort of the basketball that most basketball fans grew up with, certainly over the age of 30 people at 30, 40, 50, 60, who might be able to afford seats at these games, which are ridiculously expensive for all sports. For all sports. Yes. You know, so. So there's. I don't know that it's a crisis yet. As my dear friend Rob Ades would say, there's an issue. We don't know if there's a problem. There's an issue at the moment. You know, I don't know if there's a crisis yet, but their ratings are down across the board. Their ratings are up with LeBron and Steph. I get that. But what about another game? Like Wilbourne says, that Oklahoma City is going to win the entire title? You know, okay, who wants to see them? Who can name three players on that team? It's. It's hard. They don't. It's not the NFL, and people don't bet it like they bet the NFL. That is a big factor in this. People have a bet on the NFL. They want to see how the game.
- [13:58]
Michael Wilbon
Becomes the ally for that. Because you look at this past week and there's what, five days of football over the course of the week? And a couple of those include games like last night, which are mostly unwatchable. You have the Monday night game, and that doesn't seem to depress the overall.
- [14:11]
Tony Kornheiser
And they're on streaming services or. Or really significant cable services like the NFL Network.
- [14:17]
Jason Lockhart
Yeah.
- [14:17]
Tony Kornheiser
Where you got to pay extra. It's not basic cable. And they're still getting huge numbers because it's the NFL. And, you know, I don't know, the people who follow the NBA, they get mad at the NFL. This is called business.
- [14:32]
Jason Lockhart
Yeah.
- [14:32]
Tony Kornheiser
What you can't get mad at them for seeing. Respecting that somebody else saw a great opportunity and moved in and now said, well, let's. Let's see what we can do there.
- [14:41]
Jason Lockhart
That corner is ours now.
- [14:43]
Tony Kornheiser
Yeah, I just. Yeah, I don't know. You know, it's.
- [14:47]
Michael Wilbon
Well, you.
- [14:47]
Jason Lockhart
You'll know that the NBA. The NFL will be trolling the NBA if next year they have like Jacksonville on Christmas Day just to see.
- [14:54]
Tony Kornheiser
Matter who they put on. It really doesn't. That's the.
- [14:56]
Jason Lockhart
That's the main point is it doesn't matter at all.
- [14:58]
Tony Kornheiser
You know, and I.
- [14:59]
Michael Wilbon
Entertainment purposes. What do you think of the Beyonce halftime show?
- [15:03]
Tony Kornheiser
Okay, so I. I am not a Beyonce person. She is to me what Taylor Swift is to me. I don't know her work.
- [15:10]
Jason Lockhart
Right.
- [15:10]
Tony Kornheiser
Don't know her work at all.
- [15:11]
Michael Wilbon
Sure. More of. More of a business decision to say, hey, we're going to go after the time show, whether it's the super bowl, but now the street.
- [15:17]
Tony Kornheiser
Well, that's when they got their highest audience. They got the 27 million during the Beyonce halftime show. I was so impressed by the scope of that, by how many people were dressed up and how many costumes were marching right on the right lines. And they were. I was just blown away by whoever choreographed it, whoever produced it and directed it. It was amazing. You couldn't even stop to breathe. That's how honestly. And I don't know her work. That's how honestly exciting it was to watch. Did you think that same. Michael, you know her work. Did you think the same way that I did? I thought it was great.
- [16:01]
Michael Wilbon
I did. I watch it more from afar because I'm trying to get out this. This roast tarragon chicken from the oven. But just.
- [16:08]
Jeff Ma
I. I just.
- [16:09]
Michael Wilbon
I just love the idea of we're now going to take the halftime show as well.
- [16:13]
Tony Kornheiser
Oh, my. Yeah. Halftime show of just a game. Not. It's not the super bowl now.
- [16:17]
Jason Lockhart
You know, she wasn't originally supposed to be performing. The Four Tops were scheduled, but then they had a conflict and they couldn't do it.
- [16:22]
Tony Kornheiser
So they said, well, let's get Beyonce.
- [16:24]
Jason Lockhart
Let's see what she can do.
- [16:25]
Tony Kornheiser
Yeah. I mean, at one point, I was sitting there watching, and I was at Elizabeth's house. Elizabeth and Ron, we were watching.
- [16:32]
Michael Wilbon
She had the Netflix for you.
- [16:33]
Tony Kornheiser
Yes. Because I couldn't get it myself. I mean, I'd still be poking at it, but. But at one point, both Elizabeth and I looked at each other. Maybe it was. Beyonce was sort of. She had gone from the outside into a tunnel and was going to go to the outside, and all of a sudden she starts singing Blackbird. Yeah. That's the only song we knew. Elizabeth knew the other songs was Blackburn. Whoa. She's doing the Beatles. Yeah. Wow. I. I thought she was great.
- [16:57]
Jason Lockhart
I met her one time.
- [16:59]
Tony Kornheiser
Beyonce.
- [16:59]
Jason Lockhart
Beyonce actually did meet her.
- [17:00]
Tony Kornheiser
Yeah.
- [17:01]
Jason Lockhart
How it was when I was working for a, like a top 40 station and they made an appearance at some event that.
- [17:08]
Tony Kornheiser
Was she that big a star then?
- [17:09]
Jason Lockhart
She was. She was, I think, Michael's Child. Destiny's Child. Yeah. So the Destiny's Child singers were there.
- [17:15]
Tony Kornheiser
Is she a bigger star than Taylor Swift? Are they the same as Taylor Swift? Bigger.
- [17:19]
Jason Lockhart
I'll defer to Michael on that.
- [17:21]
Michael Wilbon
That is a very personal question to a lot of people. She's a huge, massive star and has been for 25 years now.
- [17:28]
Tony Kornheiser
And I certainly know the name and I certainly, you know, know what she does. I just don't know the music. But it was so impressive. Yeah, it was. The scope of it was so big and it was perfect. Yeah, it was just perfect. Hats off on that. Let's take a break. Jason Lock and Fora. When we return to talk about football and streaming services. Believe me, talk about that too. I'm Tony Kornheiser. You're listening to the Tony Kornheiser show. This is the liquid IV read. Whether you forget to take a sip of water during the office holiday party or start feeling parched after a long day of traveling or hosting, keep liquid IV on hand to stay hydrated. Love the subtext.
- [18:10]
Michael Wilbon
There's what, just a big night out.
- [18:14]
James Carville
Oh, yeah.
- [18:15]
Tony Kornheiser
With convenient packets of their hydration multiplier or sugar free hydration multiplier. You get eight vitamins and nutrients, three times the electrolytes of leading sports drinks and no artificial sweeteners. You. You like this?
- [18:28]
Michael Wilbon
I love this. And this is often the time of year where you forget to take care of yourself. So I will be in an all day car ride coming up in the near future and you take one of these on the road with you. You just have to fight off the little kid in the backseat going sip, sip. But for you, I mean, if you go hiking, this is the time of year where you forget to.
- [18:47]
Jason Lockhart
You think you stop for the.
- [18:48]
Tony Kornheiser
Because it's not hot. Yeah.
- [18:49]
Jason Lockhart
You think the only time you need to worry about hydration is the summertime. But no, the wintertime, it's equally as vital. So yeah, now got to have it.
- [18:55]
Tony Kornheiser
Tear poor, live more. One stick of liquid IV plus 16 ounces of water hydrates better than water alone. It's powered by LIV Hydro Science, an optimized ratio of electrolytes, essential vitamins and clinically tested nutrients that turn ordinary water into extraordinary hydration. Stay hydrated through the holidays with Liquid IV. Get 20% off your first order of Liquid IV when you go to Liquid IV.com and use the code Tony K at checkout. That's 20% off your first order when you shop. Better hydration today using promo code tonyk@liquidiv.com use the code people.
- [19:30]
Commercial Announcer
You're listening to the Tony Kornheiser show.
- [19:33]
Tony Kornheiser
This is a Grammarly read. AI tools are critical these days, but it's not always clear which are actually good for your business. Grammarly employs enterprise grade security measures to protect your organization's data and keep your private information private. There's a lot of healthy discussion about AI's effectiveness and how easy it is to implement. Since Grammarly is designed to fit your unique professional needs and works right away, it can also help contribute to your business's overall success. We are all sort of afraid of artificial intelligence and with good reason. Yes, I know how to write, so I don't worry about this. But I have seen examples of how it helps writing. You've seen that, Michael? Yes, it can really help writing. So you know when.
- [20:18]
Michael Wilbon
Because you can write doesn't mean that you always want to put that energy towards creating new.
- [20:22]
Tony Kornheiser
Right? Right. When every word your team writes is clear, concise and on brand, everything gets better. Teams that communicate better with Grammarly report 25% faster time to resolution for support tickets, 52% less time spent writing sales emails, and that can save 19 days per year per employee. Grammarly works where you work. From docs to messages to emails. It integrates seamlessly across 500,000 apps and websites. No cutting, no pasting, no context switching. Join 70,000 teams and 30 million people who trust Grammarly to work faster and hit their goals while keeping their data Secure. Go to Grammarly.comenterprise to learn more Grammarly Enterprise Ready AI this is the Tony Korneiser Show.
- [21:11]
Dan Byrne
The greatest thief of all has stolen away. He played for lots of ball clubs, but I think of him with the A's. He played crouched so low his strike zone was like a shoebox for a baby. He'd walk, then steal, then score and then make sure you knew his name. Ricky gonna walk. Ricky gonna steal. Ricky gonna score. That's just Ricky's deed. Ricky gonna do what Ricky gonna do. Ricky gonna play center field for Heaven's team. Ricky was impatient standing on a base he'd light out for the next one and then sliding on his face then creep forward to the next base 90ft away. He wore number 24 just like Willie Mays. The greatest thief of all has stolen away.
- [22:24]
Tony Kornheiser
He's not brilliant, right? Dan Byrne. He's not brilliant, right? Sitting There at a piano, piano, piano. He's not brilliant, huh? Really, that's just great.
- [22:34]
Jason Lockhart
Really was.
- [22:34]
Tony Kornheiser
That is just great. Plays in Jason locanfora. Just wonderful. Let me read this introduction. We're joined by Odyssey NFL Insider Jason Locanfoura, host of the podcast in the Huddle, covering the entire NFL. Normally, Jason, when you're on on Friday, my first question is normally, regularly, almost always, what did we learn from last night? I'm going to spare you that. Yeah, just going to spare you that. I, at the open of the show, I appreciate it. I just talked about the fact that the Bears are physically, literally killing their quarterback. It's just awful. It's just terrible. And, and I use the comparison. Who is the kid who was drafted by Houston? Oh, Derek Carr. Yeah. David Carr.
- [23:23]
Jason Lockhart
David Carr.
- [23:23]
Tony Kornheiser
David Carr. They killed him.
- [23:24]
Jason Lockhart
They did.
- [23:25]
Tony Kornheiser
They killed him. He was no good. And that's what's going to happen here. So we'll move on. We'll move on from that to what I think for me is the salient issue right now, which is Netflix. What is the NFL doing on. On Netflix? What, what, what does this mean? I don't know that you can get ratings in the same way on a streaming service than you can on over the air or regular cable. But what is the long term, short term, long term on this that you understand?
- [24:01]
James Carville
Don't overthink it, Tony. It's just, it's just a complete. Not our money grab. And who cares about ratings? If Netflix is happy with it and Netflix says good things about it and Netflix thinks it monetized it, that means Netflix + one or two other streaming services will still be willing to bid on some sort of package. Maybe it becomes all the international games, because once they get 18 games, there's going to be probably, at least, I don't know, it'll start at 14 and probably quickly get to 16 and then maybe even 18. International game. There'll be an international game pretty much every week. It couldn't get to 18, I guess, for competitive balancers and so much as they sort of occasionally care about that. But whatever it turns out being 14 games, 16 games, whatever, that's, you know, that's a potential package if they expand the playoffs even more. Like, I wouldn't get bogged down in any of sort of the nuance about is it bang for their buck or how will we, like, like how will, will we gauge it? It'll be gauged by how many people come back to the table when they sell these five games, whatever it is A four game package, five game package, whatever it becomes, it's just, can we continue to create windows that people will give us ungodly sums of money for? And I think the answer to that will continue to be yes.
- [25:29]
Tony Kornheiser
Well, they made the point in one of the shows, the pregame show or the post, whatever it was, whatever I was watching, that it went out to 109 countries. Well, you know, in 103 of those countries, four people are watching. Let's not get nuts. It's American football. It's not soccer, it's not basketball. It's not, does not have that worldwide audience. But it also went out to like probably an amount of people that have never looked at Netflix before. And some of them are going to buy Netflix, I assume, and then Netflix, like Amazon is going to bid for the NFL, which is what you are saying, Jason. So that is the long term plan. But just, just hear me out on one thing. I always thought that there was actually a legality here that if your team was being shown you had to be able to have that over the local market. Is that still true? Was Baltimore in the Baltimore market off Netflix on something else?
- [26:28]
James Carville
You could watch it on Netflix or you could watch it over the year. I was already watching a game on Netflix and since I wasn't having any streaming issues, I'll just like, let me just leave this alone and then it's a first chance, you know, if I do have an issue, then we'll switch over to the, over the air. But we never had an issue.
- [26:45]
Tony Kornheiser
Do you have any thoughts on the NBA? You know, saying that Christmas is our day?
- [26:52]
James Carville
I mean it has been traditionally. I understand where they're coming from. I was actually at an NBA game last night and this time of year have been very synonymous with that sport. NFL doesn't care. I mean that's just, you know, the NFL doesn't care. It's, it's, it's not going to go back to carrying. It's. It's hell bent on complete and utter domination of the sporting landscape as much as it legally can. I guess. There's certain Fridays and certain Saturdays where they have.
- [27:28]
Tony Kornheiser
Yeah, high school is protected. College. Yes, yes.
- [27:31]
James Carville
Outside of that. I mean they showed you they started the game the season, right? Wasn't they start the season like playing on a Friday in Brazil? Like they will do anything they can do within the legalities established for their. To try to pretend the monopoly is not a monopoly.
- [27:49]
Tony Kornheiser
Well, to be fair, they have a product that more people want than any other product in sports.
- [27:57]
James Carville
Yeah. And so again if it means players playing three times in 11 days.
- [28:04]
Tony Kornheiser
Imagine if Caleb Williams was out there three times in 11 days. He'd be on a stretcher. He. It's. Yeah. Okay, well, let me get to some of these games, the games that were played. Pittsburgh looks cooked now Russell Wilson, you know, I don't have to listen to Mike that much about how great Russell, he had a great start. It looked like he was in the right spot. It's certainly a better spot than Denver. But now that team doesn't score like they have been scoring. I think they've dropped three in a row. They don't look like a long term bet with Russell Wilson or do they?
- [28:43]
James Carville
He seems to have run out of gas and obviously the Pickens injury and I know he came back for this last game, he hasn't really practiced. He missed a lot of time. He's not quite at that level that he was before the injury turned out to be huge. They still have sort of limited talent I think by and large and yeah, he may have hit the wall a little bit. The Justin Fields injury I think was quietly huge. They were at a point where I think they were really leaning more back into, hey, this is a two headed monster and Fields in the red zone. Running in tight spaces might be something that takes us to another level. And then right as they were getting sort of hot, you know, Fields got hurt and he's missed. They're one of those teams that was forced to play a fairly untenable run of games here including against, you know, Kansas City and Baltimore that are two of the four or five best teams in the league. And hey, let's see what happened if they played those guys without some other key players like you know, twice in four days. It didn't go so well for them. So yeah, I think they'll have some, some micro level things they need to figure out here to try to salvage this season in week 18. And yes, there'll be macro discussions. The question is where, who are you getting and where is he coming from? And they're not going to draft one that's ready to play that they'd have to mortgage multiple drafts to move up to get anywhere close to that. You know, could they bring Fields and Russell Wilson back? I mean, I, I don't think it's out of a question. You know, Sam Darnold's going to get franchise tag. Like I, I just, you know, you start looking at the other free agents, a lot of people would say they've got two of the best one, you know, do they want to go down the Daniel Jones Road? Like I, I just, you know, Kirk Cousins playing outdoors in that weather, I don't see that. And even if, you know, Atlanta ate some of the contracts. So I think the problem is who, who, you know, what are we doing here? How are we upgrading? What are we doing? And the answer it looked and try to upgrade the talent level at the receiver position which they've been trying to do.
- [30:59]
Tony Kornheiser
Yeah. Meanwhile, Kansas City keeps winning. They're beating better teams lately by margins. Some, you know, not each game is a one score game anymore. What are your thoughts on them?
- [31:13]
James Carville
They are flirting with history and they look like they want to punch it in the face and it looked to me like they wanted to punch it in the face from about 30 seconds after they celebrated their last win where the talk on their sideline on the field as they were celebrating in Las Vegas was next year's in New Orleans. And that's the one we really want. I mean Patrick Mahomes was leading that charge before they had been presented the Lombardi Trophy to some last year's win. And it shows. And I, I mean I don't know what he'll do, you know, week 18 and I don't think he wants to sit guys too long. So you know, they'll probably give Denver a game and they might even win it. And so you now you're talking about a team going for a three peat with a one loss regular season and it, it's Bella Chickian, it's Brady and it's, it's Foxborough Midwest and it's not going away. And what is, what is Patrick Mahomes is what, it's 29 years old.
- [32:20]
Tony Kornheiser
29, I mean still young.
- [32:23]
James Carville
I mean, and he is that Tom Brady type who, who, who tends to his body year round and is, you know, emailing his coach from the beach. I think this play might work for us. I was watching high school stuff on YouTube like that's just how he's wired and that's what he is. And so it's not, it's, it's nowhere close to going away. And I mean they're getting healthier now. Like now they've got people, an abundance of running backs and you know, getting Hollywood Brown back and some things. And like, you know, the offensive line is this Joe Toney thing. Like if they win a Super bowl and they had to move one of their guards to left tackle in like week 14 because nobody else could do it. And now the quarterback's not getting hit as much anymore. It's just like I, you know, give them all the flowers.
- [33:13]
Tony Kornheiser
Yeah, let me go to Baltimore because I know how much you love Baltimore. And Lamar Jackson had another great game. I didn't want to talk about that. Is their defense suddenly fixed? You know how terrified you were five weeks into the season that the defense was the worst of? Is it suddenly fixed?
- [33:31]
James Carville
It is. It's fixed.
- [33:33]
Tony Kornheiser
Well, then they're a Super bowl to 10 weeks.
- [33:36]
James Carville
They were broken, and it's been fixed since week 11. And they're allowing 4.4 yards per play, but in the NFL, 5.2 yards per pass.
- [33:45]
Tony Kornheiser
Yeah.
- [33:45]
James Carville
They've allowed nine total offensive touchdowns against them in the last six games they've played.
- [33:52]
Tony Kornheiser
What did they do?
- [33:54]
James Carville
They realigned their spine. They took Kyle Hamilton, sort of their best chess piece, and said, we don't have any other free safety, so you're our free safety. And we're really going to miss your unique long limbs and levers in the slot, moving around as a hybrid linebacker and disrupting things. But you know what? Marlon Humphrey can do some of that, too. And, Marlon, you're going to go from a boundary corner to this chess piece. Really kind of like uber slot defender. And we're going to get by with Brandon Stevens and Nate Wiggins on the outside, and we're. We're going to take this kid, Trent Simpson, who we really thought could replace Patrick Cleen, and we're going to use three older veteran quarterbacks to do our linebackers to do that. Really, it's now become mostly Malik Harrison, but a couple of different guys, and we're going to go with veteran savvy over freakish skill, and we think that might settle Roquan Smith down and bring out the best in him. They got some discontents out of their building, like Eddie Jackson or malcontents, and. And they've benched others. And they played this kid, our Darius Washington at safety, who's undersized but doesn't know it, and he, paired with Hamilton, has given them a when they play cover to when they play, when they play quarters, when they play defenses that are aligned to take away deep stuff, they. They take away deep stuff and they hit you hard underneath. And those personnel moves have paid massive dividends. And it's shown up in their communication. It's shown up in their. The way they play for each other. And, you know, as a really young defensive coordinator, we talked a lot about Zach or early in the year, and even the great Mike McDonald. His defenses were a lot better second half than first half. And once they realign their base and they realize, hey, we can do simple things, well then, now it's okay. Let's, let's get a little cuter with our pre snap looks. Let's. Let's get a little cuter with some of the pressures we dial up. And right now there's a lot of belief and a lot of confidence there. I, it's, it's been a pretty remarkable turnaround. Like we were kind of saying on my show, okay, if they could go from the worst defending big plays and the worst defending quarterbacks out of zone and the worst defending quarterbacks out of. Man, if they could just get to like 20th with this offense, they've got a shot like they're the number one big play defense. The last six weeks, like, they haven't gone from, you know, 30th to 20th.
- [36:25]
Tony Kornheiser
They'Ve gone from 30th.
- [36:26]
James Carville
The top five. I mean, the last six weeks they're allowing like 28% third down conversions like they're on their own island. So, yeah, I think it is a championship caliber defense. Did you steal the rundown? Did I accidentally send you the rundown from today's Inside Access? You seem to be in the circle of trust on some things that I wasn't so sure you were.
- [36:48]
Tony Kornheiser
Not that you didn't belong, but I.
- [36:50]
James Carville
Didn'T think you'd be interested, so. But now maybe you'll listen two to six today, Tony, and you'll be like, damn, that's what he was telling me.
- [36:58]
Tony Kornheiser
Yeah. Because I, I look now at the, Just, you know, look at the league. Who are the teams I want to see most? Three of them are in the afc. It's Buffalo, it's Kansas City, and it's Baltimore. And the other one is Detroit. I want to see Detroit. Detroit.
- [37:16]
James Carville
You don't like the Packers?
- [37:18]
Tony Kornheiser
Not. I do. I think he's great. And I think they got it right. And I was one of those who didn't think they got it right. And they did. They did get it right. But I know it's mostly Detroit for me and I. Boy, oh boy, Detroit's end, you know, if San Francisco were good like we all thought they would be, to end with the 49ers and the Vikings, that's. That's a gauntlet. That is a gauntlet. And they're hurt and all of that. So I find them. Yeah, I find them interesting.
- [37:46]
James Carville
They're compelling.
- [37:47]
Tony Kornheiser
Yeah. And I, and I find Campbell interesting. And I was wrong on Him. I thought he was a bozo. He's not. His play, he may be a bozo, but his players will march into hell for him. Right.
- [37:59]
James Carville
So he knows what he's doing.
- [38:00]
Tony Kornheiser
That's what it seems like. There's nothing really left now to decide. Right. Everything's been decided. Basically nothing left.
- [38:08]
James Carville
Yeah, I mean, we've got some seating stuff, but I mean, look, like what? Like, could Cincinnati get a whole lot of help and sneak in this thing? I mean, they could, you know, that would be, that would be interesting. I mean, that's sort of the one plot line in terms of getting in and not getting in that I think could be pretty interesting. Just because that quarterback's got three or more passing touchdowns in seven straight games now and they got a receiver with 16 receiving touchdowns already that looks like Joe Burrow would like to get him to 20. So I think Joe Burrow wants his, his 90 year old owner to have to spend as much as humanly possible to keep Jamar Chase now after blowing it with him last off season.
- [38:46]
Tony Kornheiser
No, you're right. No, you're right. Burrow is, you know, his defense for all season until the last maybe two or three weeks was killing him in the way that the Chicago Bears offense is killing their quarterback. Just killing that quarterback. All right, plug your podcast for us. Are you ready? Thank you.
- [39:03]
James Carville
Check me out two to six weekdays on Inside Access, on 1057, the fan in Baltimore or on the Odyssey app. And check me out handicapping games on CBS Sportsline, writing about the NFL in the Washington Post.
- [39:17]
Tony Kornheiser
And that's a good piece on Kyler Murray because now it doesn't look like it's Cliff Kingsbury's fault. And now it doesn't look like it's his fault exclusively. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right. Thanks, Jason.
- [39:28]
James Carville
Thank you, guys. Happy holidays.
- [39:29]
Tony Kornheiser
You too. Jason lockenfour. That was Odyssey NFL Insider. Jason Lockin forum. Make sure to follow in the huddle on the Odyssey app or subscribe where you get your podcast. When we come back, we're going to have Jeff Ma for sure.
- [39:41]
Jason Lockhart
Yes.
- [39:41]
Tony Kornheiser
And we're hoping to have James Carville hoping. We're hoping to have car because Carville had a great week, has a couple of great weeks. Right. Is back in the saddle on a heater. So we'll see. I'm Tony Kornheiser.
- [39:52]
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- [40:24]
Tony Kornheiser
You're listening to the Tony Kornheiser show. Well, you wake up in the morning, boy you hear the ding dong ring. Then you look upon the table bar.
- [40:38]
Jeff Ma
You see the same darn thing.
- [40:42]
Tony Kornheiser
You find no food upon the table bar. There's no fork up in the pan. But you better not complain, boy you get in trouble with the mess. I love this beginning. Paul Evans Midnight Special James Carville's walk up Music for people who don't know this, James was 5 and all last week. He sent in his picks. He started with a game. I didn't even know who these schools were. Ohio and Jacksonville State. And he took the over. The over was 56. It landed on 57. And this is James's week. He took Tampa Bay, Dallas over. The over was 48. It landed on 50. He had Penn State and Ohio State. Unlike Jeff Ma, who went the other way. James bet the two Big Ten teams gave points and one. And he had Arizona Carolina. The over was 46 and a half. And he crushed that. You had a great week. You want to take a couple of bows and explain it?
- [41:42]
Harry Hawkins
Well, first of all, this is not horseshoes and this is not hand grenades.
- [41:46]
James Carville
Okay?
- [41:47]
Tony Kornheiser
Right.
- [41:49]
James Carville
Okay.
- [41:50]
Harry Hawkins
Either one or you lose. Yeah, I take power. I give a shout out to my team at ACL Sports. And we, we've been running hot and cold all year. We running hot now. So let's try to stay hot.
- [42:01]
Tony Kornheiser
Yeah, you were, you were 4 and 2 the week before. So 9 and 2 over two weeks. 47 and 49 with Mount 500 in sight. What do you got this week?
- [42:10]
Harry Hawkins
Snowy summit is windy up there, but we're going for it. Arkansas, Texas Tech take Texas Tech minus one.
- [42:20]
Tony Kornheiser
Okay. Texas Tech minus one over Arkansas.
- [42:24]
Harry Hawkins
Right. UConn, North Carolina take UConn plus three.
- [42:31]
Tony Kornheiser
UConn plus three over North Carolina. Soon to be coached by Bill Belichick, but no longer coached by Mack Brown.
- [42:38]
Harry Hawkins
I think that's kind of a weird situation. The Hurricanes, Iowa State.
- [42:45]
Tony Kornheiser
Okay.
- [42:45]
Harry Hawkins
The Hurricanes and the Cyclones. This is the great weather bowl. Going like +4 in a great weather bowl.
- [42:55]
Tony Kornheiser
Iowa State +4. Okay.
- [42:58]
Harry Hawkins
And in the big game, the Texas, Longhorn, Arizona state and that plus 14. Take the dog.
- [43:09]
Tony Kornheiser
The sun taking 14 and a team from the Big 12 that just got there an hour ago because they were in the packed well before. Okay. What else?
- [43:18]
Harry Hawkins
Okay. And then we got one pro pick.
- [43:21]
Tony Kornheiser
Yep.
- [43:21]
Harry Hawkins
And the Browns and the Bengals. The over is 49 and a half. Go over on that one. Joe Bar, by the way, have you ever seen two quarterbacks from one university have a better day than Daniels And Joe Daniels had last Sunday?
- [43:39]
Tony Kornheiser
Just they. Yeah, they were. They were fabulous. Burrow is the look the Patrick Mahomes is the greatest player on the planet but Joe Burrow is the best quarterback on the planet. Yeah. And Jaden Daniels I think sewed up rookie of the year then because I don't know what Bo Nix can do to catch him now. That was great performance. Anything else?
- [43:59]
Harry Hawkins
No, that's about Happy New Year and we'll come smoking back next week. But I fully expect that we're going to have a good week this week. I'm excited for the weekend because I.
- [44:10]
Tony Kornheiser
Hear that that's good. We can summit with you. You get up on the top of that Mount 500. That'd be good. Thank you. James.
- [44:17]
Harry Hawkins
You're all crowded. Georgia, Notre Dame. Yes indeed. Go ahead.
- [44:21]
Tony Kornheiser
All right. Thank you, James. James Carville, boys and girls, always happy when he wins. Yes. So most of the time after we do Carville, we. We have to hang up on Carville and we have to call Jeff and I have to fill for a while to vamp.
- [44:35]
Jason Lockhart
Yes.
- [44:35]
Tony Kornheiser
I don't have to fill today because the truth is. And we have full disclosure on everything we do here.
- [44:40]
Jason Lockhart
Yes.
- [44:40]
Tony Kornheiser
Including when we make mistakes. We are recording this not on Friday but on Thursday afternoon. And there's a reason for that is Jeff lives in California and we wake him up at a ridiculous hour at 5:15 in the morning to do picks. And I have become concerned because the last three weeks Jeff is two and four. Three and four and last week one and five including missing betting against Big Ten teams twice and getting drummed. You know, revealing his. His, you know, anti Big Ten prejudices and getting drum. Whereas Carville won both those games. Yeah, Carville won the Big Ten games. So I thought maybe if we started at a reasonable hour at a different day, you would be better. What are your thoughts about slumps and also about. About the college football players. Because here's what we had and I'm just going to say this from. From a consumer point of view, not from a betting point of view. There were four games, three of which stunk. They were. They were non competitive. The Clemson Texas game Was sort of kind of competitive, except that every time Clemson scored, Texas went right down the field and scored. So you could say all four of these games stunk. What did you learn from that and what are people talking about with games like that?
- [46:06]
Jeff Ma
Yeah, well, first off, I managed to not bet against the one Big Ten team that didn't show up. I had it right, but the wrong two teams, which get partial credit for that. I mean, it was a pretty interesting week. I mean, I think from my slump perspective across those games that I picked, I had four pick sixes against me across two games. So if you look at, there's a fair amount of bad luck that's featured in there, and also probably bad bad picking and bad skill sets. But I think the college football playoffs are interesting in that there's a couple things we learned last week, I think. One, you know, home field advantage is a very interesting thing that people have tried to do quite a bit of studies on to understand where that value comes from. Is it from better ref, you know, getting better calls from refs? Is it the familiarity? Is the crowd motivating you? And, you know, like they used to say, like, oh, home field was like about three points or two and a half points. And it started to diminish over the course of time. And the reason it's been diminishing, I think primarily is because just travel is getting easier for everyone and also just general, you know, general familiarity, all that kind of stuff. And so what's interesting is, I think in this first week, at least from what we saw, home field was probably a pretty big factor. And part of it is the lack of familiarity. And like, the, you know, in the Tennessee situation, they were coming up and that was the coldest game that Tennessee had ever played in the history of Tennessee. That was the coldest game they'd ever played. And that idea of these teams going and playing in unfamiliar territory and unfamiliar conditions is a pretty big deal. So I think that's one thing. I think the second thing that we saw is that Ohio State, who was thought of to be the best team going into the season this year, may be that, right? And if you take away a Michigan game and close game against Oregon, if they just, you know, they were on the road, all that kind of stuff, they may be the best team. And they are actually favored going into Oregon, sorry, not going into Oregon, but playing Oregon on a neutral this week. So I'd say the two things that I learned are, one, home field in this first round may be a very big deal. Again, like, the teams were just pumped up, the weather was tough. Like, you know, these unfamiliar settings for these teams, again, like in within a conference, like in the NFL, these home field advantages are even smaller because these teams play against each other constantly.
- [48:44]
Tony Kornheiser
Constantly. Yes. Yeah. So, I mean, look, I remember getting on this show with Booger McFarland the day after these Games, and I said, maybe 12 is too many and maybe home field is ridiculous. And he said, you're an idiot. No, you're. No, you're wrong. I said, okay. I mean, you know, his opinion is different than my opinion, but I felt like you felt that just looking at it, small set here, obviously just four games. But I could come up with nothing to combat my own theory that home field was enormously important. Because in, in these cases, this is not a once a year deal. Right. Like, unlike the pros where it's once, it's not a once a year deal. It's not a once every other year deal. It's a once ever deal for the people playing those games. And it seemed to me, Jeff, it seemed to me an enormous factor, and we're not going to have that next time around because it's all neutral, right? It's all neutral.
- [49:45]
Jeff Ma
Yeah. I mean, again, it'll be something interesting to watch for next year. They continue a similar format. And one of the things that was like, kind of interestingly pointed out was when they decided to have this format, they had a couple other conferences, you know, they had a Big 12 that had, you know, better teams in it. They had a PAC 10 that had better teams in it. And one of the reasons that you're seeing this weird thing with Boise and Arizona State now, you know, basically locked into the second round and we have these, like, blowouts projected for those games is because this format was, you know, was started before all of the super conference stuff happened. So now that the super conference stuff has happened, they're going to have to really take a long look at how they do seatings and how big this is. I may be, you know, I think more college football is great and it sucked. It was too bad that those games were bad games. I mean, I was shocked at the way the Tennessee game played out, but I honestly think that that was more testament to how good Ohio State is. And we saw Ohio State ceiling in that game. So, I mean, I think again, if they play at that level, I'm not sure who in college football can beat them.
- [50:50]
Tony Kornheiser
Paul Feinbaum said this to us weeks and weeks ago, that before Michigan, he said, I think Ohio State is the best team in the country. I don't want to go back and forth because I don't want to get into a Herb Street Shannon Sharp situation. I don't want to bite the hand that feeds me. So we'll have some picks. And this week's picks with Carville and Jeff Ma are brought to you by FanDuel Sportsbook. Make every moment more.
- [51:13]
Jeff Ma
What do you got for us in the college? I'm going to take Boise plus the 11 over Penn State. Despite what happened last week against SMU, that game was a very funny game. I mean, obviously, like, you are what your record says you are or you are what the score says it is. So I don't want to apologize. You know, I don't want to say, like, oh, that game could have been much closer, but you had SMU in a situation where they were about to take the lead, you know, early in the first quarter, they. The guy drops the ball in fourth and one. Then they're still marching. They throw a pick six. They throw another pick six. Even then after that, they had a turnover and they threw another interception in the red zone. Now, obviously that matters, but that game could have been very different. And I think people look at the final score of that game and they think, well, Penn State just dominated, which they obviously did on the scoreboard. But I still think there's some value here in betting against them. And I'm take Boise plus the 11.
- [52:06]
Tony Kornheiser
Okay, what else?
- [52:08]
Jeff Ma
I'm going to go and jump on this Ohio State bandwagon and think they win this game. This line opened a little bit shorter. It's now up to two and a half. I'm taking Ohio State minus a two and a half over Oregon.
- [52:20]
Tony Kornheiser
It's a rematch. It is difficult to beat a team twice in the same year in basketball. Dean Smith always used to say, can't beat him three times in the same year. And then it very, very rarely happens. So that may be. That may be the way to go. What else you got for us?
- [52:37]
Jeff Ma
And then we're going to jump in the NFL and don't pick the Giants.
- [52:41]
Tony Kornheiser
Do not pick the Giants. I'm not letting you pick the Giants.
- [52:44]
Jason Lockhart
Not allowed.
- [52:45]
Tony Kornheiser
No.
- [52:46]
Jeff Ma
But again, like, the giants were winning 7 nothing.
- [52:48]
Tony Kornheiser
7 nothing. How'd they game?
- [52:51]
Jeff Ma
And then they threw a pick six.
- [52:52]
Michael Wilbon
It's like, what.
- [52:53]
Jeff Ma
What are you. What are you doing these with these? Anyways, I'm not picking the Giants. Don't worry. You don't have to. You don't have to, like, restrain me from doing that. I'm going to take the packers over Minnesota. It's about even I think is what the spread is. The Packers I think are a better team than Minnesota, although Minnesota is obviously really well coached. Defense is great. Darnold's played more than adequate. But I think Green Bay is going to be able to get enough disruption on Darnold. They're going to force him in a mistake or two. And I think Green Bay can beat this Minnesota defense in a couple different ways, running or passing. So I like Green Bay to win this game out. Right.
- [53:32]
Jason Lockhart
I can give you a point if you'd like.
- [53:34]
Jeff Ma
I'll take the plus one.
- [53:35]
Tony Kornheiser
So Green Bay is a one point underdog.
- [53:37]
Jason Lockhart
Green Bay plus one at Minnesota. Yes.
- [53:39]
Tony Kornheiser
Okay, so we give you that. I'm just going to point something out. How would you like to close the season the way Minnesota is closing the season? How would you like Green Bay and Detroit? How would you like that? That's, that's hard.
- [53:51]
Jason Lockhart
That's tough.
- [53:52]
Tony Kornheiser
And Minnesota and Jeff, I am with you on this. I always, I keep thinking the bubble bursts with Minnesota. It has to. And it doesn't. It doesn't yet burst. It doesn't burst with Kansas City. Boy, was I convinced that Kansas City had to not just lose points by points, I had to lose a game. They've gotten stronger as they've played better teams lately. What else got for us?
- [54:14]
Jeff Ma
I mean Kansas City looks like the modern day Patriots, right? They do like coast through the regular season and then when it's, you know, December and they need to turn it on. They do. I mean they look obviously great against Pittsburgh yesterday. All right, we're going to. So what's interesting is last week you saw the, you know, the commies really come back out of their shell. And one of the things that's been interesting about watching them is that pre injury Jaden Daniels was scrambling about 23% of the time. Post injury he started scrambling about 14% of the time which I think was an indication that he was still hurt. He's gone back in recent weeks to being in that 23% range and you can see how much better the offense is when he is that way. Yes, I like them minus the four, but what I like better than that and what I will take in this game is the total to go over 47 and a half. And you know, the reason here in this is that I do think Atlanta's offense, you know, we kind of bet against Penix last week.
- [55:20]
Tony Kornheiser
Well, he proved something. He did. He proved something.
- [55:23]
Jeff Ma
Yeah, for sure. And it looks like, you know, he might be a unique situation where he's playing later on in the year. He's obviously a much older quarterback and he's on a team that's a good team. So I like the over 47 and a half years as the play, but.
- [55:39]
Tony Kornheiser
So not the minus four. You're going to take the over.
- [55:42]
Jeff Ma
I'm going to take the over 47 as my official.
- [55:44]
Tony Kornheiser
I don't know how many times this has to happen before we learn this. You look at Penix and you look at, at Jaden Daniels and you look at Bo Nix. These guys started like 50 games in college. You know, Drake May. They're not coming out after one big year. Yeah. You know, they're, they, they put in the time. They are not kids. They're 23 and 24, all of them. And that's, you know, that, that is something to take into consideration when you, when a team says, we're going to start these guys, they're not being thrown to the wolves in the same way that a guy with 15 starts is different. What else you got?
- [56:25]
Jeff Ma
Yeah, and then I'm going to take the Dolphins minus the six and a half.
- [56:29]
Tony Kornheiser
Always take them.
- [56:31]
Jeff Ma
Yeah. Well, this is a little bit of. I don't know how much you've looked at any of the data on DCR during Thompson Robinson, but he may be the worst starting quarterback that has ever played in the NFL.
- [56:44]
Tony Kornheiser
He stinks. Yes. He's terrible.
- [56:46]
Jeff Ma
And, you know, he keeps getting these chances. And if you look at a lot of the advanced metrics, it is literally. Literally, he is the worst person that has had multiple starts. So given getting a chance for a Dolphins team that, you know, is still. I think they still have an outside chance to get in this thing. Very, very small chance. But minus a six and a half over the Browns, I'm going to take them here.
- [57:10]
Tony Kornheiser
So here is. And I'm fine with this because I think the owners of the Browns are terrible. And I think what they did with Deshaun Watson is terrible on a variety of levels. They benched Jameis Winston. First of all, they didn't invite Joe Flacco back. All he did was take them to the playoffs. Okay, is he my age? Okay. But it seemed that it worked. And they put in Jameis Winston and then they benched him. And it's like you can't look at the body of Jameis Winston's work. He's been around a long time. He throws more picks than anybody. He does. That's who he is. You bench him and go to a guy who's Jameis Winston's not terrible, right, Jeff? He just throws bad interceptions, but he's not terrible. This guy's actually terrible, I think.
- [57:59]
Jeff Ma
Yeah. I mean, James is high will come high variants, right?
- [58:03]
Tony Kornheiser
Yeah.
- [58:04]
Jeff Ma
He's going to do some exciting things. Yeah, it's, you know, maybe, maybe they're just playing a play out the string and it's like a really subtle way to tank is to play the worst quarterback. But yeah, I mean, the opportunity to bet against DTR is too much for me to pass up on.
- [58:20]
Tony Kornheiser
All right, we're good. Thanks. I hope, I hope this fact that we take this in real hours is going to be helpful to you. I hope so. Thank you, Jeff.
- [58:28]
Jeff Ma
Okay. Thanks, Tony.
- [58:29]
Tony Kornheiser
This week's picks with James Carville and Jeff Mobb and brought to you by FanDuel Sportsbook. Make every moment more. We will come back with email and jingle. I am Tony Kornheiser.
- [58:39]
Commercial Announcer
You're listening to the Tony Kornheiser show.
- [58:49]
Tony Kornheiser
Cue the towel boy. SA Jeremy Vint. It's fabulous.
- [59:52]
Jason Lockhart
It's just great.
- [59:53]
Tony Kornheiser
We are all submerged. You want to do the Bethesda Bagel ad?
- [59:55]
Jason Lockhart
Yes, Bethesda Bagels, we love them. You will as well. Just go to Bethesda Bagels.com forward a location in the DC area nearest you, my friend, and then pop it in and you'll be thrilled.
- [60:04]
Tony Kornheiser
Before we get to the mailbag, let me just say, oh Lord, won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz? My friends all drive Porsches I must make amends Worked hard all my lifetime no help from my friends. So Lord, won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz? Janis Joplin. Let me thank some people here. I got a lovely note from Kelly piers in Alexandria, Louisiana. Thank you for that. Thank you to Scott McCourtney in Lake Forest, California. Thank you to Tom Targonsky in Sioux City, Iowa. Chuck and Roxy, right. They will be doing a Christmas show this year. So if you really need something to do, you're always welcome to jump on the Loyal Little podcast. Our gift of littles this year is having the smartest man in Washington, D.C. abby Lowell as a special.
- [60:43]
Michael Wilbon
How about that?
- [60:44]
Tony Kornheiser
That's right. We still won't let Greg Garcia anywhere near our show. Talk about a ratings killer. Just kidding. Don't read that on the air because he's got to be better than a hockey segment, right? Hope you're having some well deserved time off and happy holidays to you and your entire family. We just took Christmas off. You know, you could have called in.
- [60:59]
Michael Wilbon
From 95, done that.
- [61:02]
Tony Kornheiser
Yeah. I mean, rock it. She's a Rockette. She's working.
- [61:07]
Jason Lockhart
Yeah. They're performing on Christmas Day, right?
- [61:09]
Tony Kornheiser
Yeah, they did. They did. From Gus in South Glens Falls, New York, a community I know well because my college roommate David Carpenter was from there. I'm sure you will find this more interesting than any of your listeners, so my feelings won't be hurt if it doesn't make the air. I loved hearing the mailbag email from Jason Chapin. My stepmother was a student at Plattsburgh State university in the mid-60s, where one of our classmates was a tall guy who played basketball. Tom Chapin. His brother Harry was, for a period of time, a student at Cornell and his younger brother Steve at Clarkson College of Technology. My alma mater. Together. Not mine, it's Gus's together. The three made an album in 1967 entitled Chapin Music. Their band, cleverly named the Chapin Brothers, they played all over New York State, including shows at many of the colleges in the late 70s. My stepmother decided she wanted a new copy of the album, as hers was very scratchy, couldn't locate one. So she did something that would be unthinkable these days. She went to Harry's house to see if he knew where to find it. She grew up in Melville and had gone to the island to visit her folks. She told me she had a very nice conversation with him, but that he said he didn't even have a copy, but would like one if she found any. Sadly, he passed in a tragic car accident a couple of years later. But I managed to get my hands on a couple of original pressings still in plastic wrap, online someplace. Of course, maybe not so special now as it can be found on streaming platforms, but back then, kind of neat to own. I'm still a fan of his music today. I've seen his brother Tom and some of his other family members perform over the years. Harry was probably naive and an idealist who thought he could change the world, but I'm betting he's had more of an impact than most of us taking up space on the planet. Absolutely. From our friend Harry Hawkins. Okay, Harry, who started out of Columbia, then went to work at espn. Every time you talk about your sweaters being eaten by moths, I picture Dana Carvey running through Gerald Ford's possible causes of death on Saturday Night Live. Were your sweaters eaten by wolves? Were they delicious? Were they shot dead at the Census? Age of 83? How about chopped into little bits by the propeller of a computer plane or strangled by Richard Nixon's corpse. Inquiring minds want to know. P.S. of all the things I ever expected you to say on this show, I know. OG Its original gangster, was at the very bottom of the list. Yeah. Are you a hip millennial now? Do you have Riz? What is Riz?
- [63:11]
Jason Lockhart
Not sure.
- [63:12]
Tony Kornheiser
I don't know. I don't know what Riz is. I know what Mike who? Mike Rizzo. Quiz. That's all I know.
- [63:18]
Jason Lockhart
So we do know. Yes.
- [63:19]
Tony Kornheiser
Lee Gordon, Chuck and Roxy. Number 80, Boynton Beach, Florida. Formerly West Hartford, Connecticut. A recent emailer suggested protecting your sweaters from moths by storing them in large popcorn cans. He went on to suggest that you may be able to find them decorated with the colors and logos of your favorite team, school or other subject. My eyes guys suggest moose cans. That's so funny. Moose cans. Where are these cans, by the way? You said you were going to get them.
- [63:43]
Jason Lockhart
I will order them today. I will order. They'll be here tomorrow.
- [63:45]
Tony Kornheiser
Terry. Thanks. Bremen, Indiana Dear Dr. T.K. well, someone has to say it. So those hinky dinky cedar chests appear to be hocus pocus junk from Rob Rodatus. Yes, that Rob Rodatus. Ahoy, Skipper. If the charter boat fishing business is in a lull, have I got a golden opportunity for you? It's grounded in your uncanny and inexhaustible skill in remembering the lyrics to any song you may not know. Many singers do not have this ability. Great voices, no recall. They either mumble like Joe Cocker or they make up new words and mumble like Bob Dylan. Others have a band member to feed them the lines. Why do the singer and the lead guitarist lean up against each other back to back? A classic rock star pose or positioning to relay the next line. I know from experience once played in a group that had a singer with the best set of pipes in Macon, Georgia. The only lyrics he could remember were Shanna, Nana, hey, hey, hey, Goodbye, Bank, a gong and 1, 800 cars for kids. The rest of us did the sub rosa line readings. This is where your talents come in. You wouldn't even have to go on stage. Earphones and an offstage mic. However, your saucy countenance on the stage would be a plus. I can see it now. The Lurking Culprits Tour sponsored by Simplisafe from Brian Mohler recently, the Career Center I Run and he's from Rock Lake, Missouri and was on Chuck and Roxy. Recently the Career Center I run was blessed with moving into a beautiful state of the Art new building. Our 88,000 square foot school is quite impressive, which of course led other directors in the area to want to come for a tour and attempt to roll out the red carpet. Our culinary arts program prepared a nice breakfast and we had everyone gather in our lecture hall to get organized before going on the tour. The lecture hall is equipped with a 100 inch screen and great sound system, so I thought it might be nice to have some holiday music playing as people waited. After welcoming everybody and giving some basic information, I asked if anyone had any questions before we headed out to see the building. Only one person raised their hand and said, brian, is this your Spotify account? Yes, I replied. Then what on earth is post sex nacho radio? My attempt to explain were futile, but I know other littles can relate. Eat it. Alex Cobb Jonathan Harwood Yonkers, New York I'm no baseball historian like Tim Kirchen, but I do know a Ricky story I think you would love, which Ricky confirmed one year when he was on the A's. They called him at the end of the year because the team discovered an extra million dollars in its account that matched Ricky's bonus and they wanted to make sure he got the check when people still use checks. Ricky said yes, it's framed and hanging on my wall. Either didn't know he had to bring it to a bank or wanted to keep it as a momentum. $101 million. That's having money. That's having money. Steve the Sycophant I just heard Sad news for 2025. No, not that the platinum sat the planet Saturn will tilt in a way that makes its rings invisible for the next couple of years. And worse than that ring rain charged water particles leaking out of the rings will result in the rings disappearing in the astronomically brief time of 100 million years. I'm dashing outside right now with a telescope to see the rings while I can. Carl Oswego, New York Upstate did someone help find you the Christmas Day NFL games? My daughter did. Liz and Ron did. Yes. I decided not to subscribe to Netflix just for two football games and because I'm supposed to be spending the day with my family. At least that's what they told me. And when they went their separate ways, I just watched the NBA. I don't really like to watch the NBA until last May, but at least it was already on my cable. A haiku from she had a haiku for Progresso Soup, Bag of chips or soup? We all know what's important Serving size matters from Scott Gurney teaches phys Ed and Lord Selkirk Regional Comprehensive Secondary School. No Netflix. No problem. I got you covered. Drop over anytime after lunch. We'll stick you in the spare room. Don't forget your own snacks. Scott Gurney, Selkirk. Manit Cove, Manitoba, Canada. Yeah, I'd end up like Tom sitting in somebody else's house. Kenny Ray, Fort Walton Beach, Florida. Every time you play Bruce Griffin's mailbag jingle, I feel like I'm walking down Frenchman street in New Orleans listening to the music come out of the Spotted Cat or the Blue Nile. It's fabulous.
- [67:38]
Jason Lockhart
Love that piano.
- [67:38]
Tony Kornheiser
Mike Roseberry, State College, Pennsylvania. Is it true that every time Wilbon mentions speaking with a Bears hall of Famer and angel gets it? Mark Kudelski, North Bethesda. North Bethesda. You're correct about the pricing of Progresso Soup. I buy it for 250 a can at the Food Line in Rockville, which I believe is closest to Chevy Chase, D.C. when can we expect to see you up here in order to restock? Why is it so much cheaper at Food Line? I mean, that's soup. That's not something where you say, oh, I don't know about this. That's soup in a can. And you can check the date.
- [68:11]
Jason Lockhart
Yeah.
- [68:13]
Tony Kornheiser
Michael Kinslinger on a recent show. The outro was the clip in Blazing Saddles of Mel Brooks as a Sioux chief speaking Yiddish. It brought back a memory of my father and his brother seeing that movie in Denver in 1975. They're, of course, the only two people in the audience who spoke Yiddish and were understandably uproarious during that scene. When the movie ended, two of the other patrons asked them how they knew the Native American language. My uncle responded, it wasn't sue, it was Yiddish. Leaving the other astounded that Native Americans spoke it. It's funny. Get out of your bike. Tonight, everyone, as always, to where white who made the egg salad sandwiches?
- [68:53]
Dan Byrne
The greatest thief of all has stolen away. He played for lots of. But I think of him with the A's. He crouched so low his strike zone was like a shoebox for a baby. He'd walk, then steal, then score and then make sure you knew his name. Ricky gonna walk. Ricky gonna steal. Ricky gonna score. That's just Ricky's team. Ricky gonna do what Ricky gonna do. Ricky gonna play center field for Heaven's team. Ricky was impatient. Standing on a base, he'd light out for the next one and then slide in on his face, then creep forward to the next base, 90ft away. Way he wore number 24. Just like Willie May the greatest thief of all has stolen all ways.