Michael Wilbon (3:13)

Yeah. You're still going to plan. We get a lot of winter golf at Columbia, but this is the last, you know, sort of full field event. And it's a great way to say goodbye to some people you might not see unless you're playing paddle or, you know, seeing them in one of the dining rooms or, you know, seeing them out at the bowling arena. You don't go to the bowling.

Tony Kornheiser (3:27)

I do not, but I went with you and the kids last year and enjoyed it very much.

Michael Wilbon (3:31)

Yeah.

Tony Kornheiser (3:32)

Duck bin bowl. Yeah, I liked it. Yeah. So. So this is an event.

Michael Wilbon (3:36)

They used to give out a turkey at the end.

Tony Kornheiser (3:38)

Yes. There was no. I was hoping that we would finish last and get a turkey because I thought that's the way it used to be.

Michael Wilbon (3:43)

Great. I'm not sure it'd be food safe given how hot it was when you played on.

Tony Kornheiser (3:47)

So there were 20, 20 group, 18, 18 to 20 groups. It was a shotgun start at 10 o' clock and it was an A player, a B player, a C player and a D player. Hello, Tony. D player. I'm a 20. I'm a D player.

Michael Wilbon (4:01)

I don't think you're a traditional D player because you are a consistent driver of the golf ball.

Tony Kornheiser (4:05)

Well. And I.

Michael Wilbon (4:06)

How do you make some putts?

Tony Kornheiser (4:07)

I made. So I'm. I'm just bad in the middle, which I will.

Michael Wilbon (4:09)

But the stressful part is you're playing from spots that you've never seen.

Tony Kornheiser (4:12)

Never seen. No, I'm never taking a shot. A second or third shot from these spots. Oh, sure. Never close on that. So I was a D player and I'll talk about my team. But Michael, you were an A player.

Michael Wilbon (4:23)

I was a player.

Tony Kornheiser (4:24)

I didn't. I only knew one of the guys on my team. I'd never met the other two. Did you know the people you played?

Michael Wilbon (4:29)

Yes, I was playing with Tom McCoy, Shawn O' Donovan and Dean D'.

Tony Kornheiser (4:32)

Angelo.

Michael Wilbon (4:33)

And I used to teach Dean's son with this. A great way to reconnect many years later. But the perspective of the A players, you're sitting there going, I'm happy to play wherever you guys want. But the whole point is as a scramble, you want to make sure the group feels comfortable as you move down the fairway. So you're not sitting there going like, okay, well, I'm going to take it over the tree from the rough because I think I'm going to carve a nine out of the situation. And no one then hits the green. Everyone's mad at each other.

Tony Kornheiser (4:57)

Yeah. So I'm in a group and Michael had told me we're playing with somebody. Not the former Washington quarterback Jason Campbell, but another Jason Campbell. And Michael, you said he's a strong player, gets it a long way.

Michael Wilbon (5:09)

And a really nice guy.

Tony Kornheiser (5:10)

Nice guy. And so playing with him and his friend Dane, or Danny, I think is his friend. Muse is the last name. And Dane Orange, maybe. No, it's not Dane Orange. Not a baseball player. No, it's not Dane Orange. It's not Dane Clark, who used to be an actor. I thought he had said Danny, but. Or Dan, but maybe it's Dane. It doesn't really matter. They are. He's very good friends with Jason. They play together in two man events. And I had not met him. Nice fella. Nice guy. And Brad Graham. And Brad Graham I played with once before and he's the director of admissions at Georgetown Day. Okay. Now I sort of feel I can get the grandkids into Georgetown. Not Georgetown Day. I'm sorry. Georgetown Prep. Oh, Georgetown Prep. Georgetown Prep starts when? In high school. That's. That's high school. I don't start at seventh grade or something like that. But you know, if the kids want to go. To go. To lay the groundwork. Yeah, I mean, you know, so take any up.

Michael Wilbon (5:55)

What do we get in this market?

Tony Kornheiser (5:57)

Yeah. So anyway, so we begin to play and I know what's going to happen is. Doesn't matter how good I hit a drive. We're not using my drive.

Michael Wilbon (6:05)

No, I disagree because you're playing from.

Tony Kornheiser (6:06)

The goalies, but I wasn't. I'm not strong enough to do it. We used virtually everything that Jason hit. Jason hit it. He hit drives that were 280, 300. He really flies it. Big hitter. Yeah. Dilemma. And. And so we. We. The last time I was in an event like this, and when we won money, Arch and I had nothing to do with it. It was Michael and who. Who was with Tom and Tom. Michael and Tom. So they did everything and we won money, and we were just along with the ride. And we won a gross prize, which is absurd for you.

Michael Wilbon (6:41)

Gross.

Tony Kornheiser (6:41)

I'm a 20 arch of 21. So we didn't help Team Coke this time. I helped a little bit. Yeah. This time I actually. They used my drive on number two down the hill. Yes. They used my drive on number three, the number four. Number four, the par three. They used my drive on one other hole, and I made some putts. I made like four putts.

Michael Wilbon (7:02)

Where were you in the order for putting first?

Tony Kornheiser (7:05)

Because I'm the worst way. Get it. Get me out of the way. I'll show everybody else the line.

Michael Wilbon (7:09)

Mess up the speed.

Tony Kornheiser (7:10)

Yeah, but I. But I made like four putts, big time. They were birdies. Yeah.

Michael Wilbon (7:14)

A lot of times the first putt in, you got to get in early.

Tony Kornheiser (7:16)

So. So I was really happy about that. And I think we used Jason's ball every other play. Every other play. It was. It was remarkable. On number 12, a par 5. He eagled it on his own ball. He hit the long drive. He hit the second shot onto the green. He made the pot. I mean, any point.

Michael Wilbon (7:35)

Was he just saying, like, let's. Let's move it along, guys. No one's gonna hit that drive.

Tony Kornheiser (7:39)

Well, I mean, there was one part where. Where the head pro, Steve Delmar, comes out after he has hit on one, said, jason, sit on one. He said it over the trees. It's right in front of the green. And I say to. I say to. To the Del Mar. I shouldn't even hit. He goes, no, you shouldn't. I hit it 30ft. I was so completely intimidated, I didn't even get well.

Michael Wilbon (8:00)

The tough thing is sometimes you do want just to stay in rhythm so that if you do get to a point where you. You are in a position where your te's. You can help them. You're ready.

Tony Kornheiser (8:06)

Every second shot I hit was bad. Every single one. Now on five, I hit a third shot, an eight iron pitch shot that was three feet. And we buried Chip. And that was that. I told him, you taught me how to do that. And that was the only thing I did. But we won money. We won shop credit. That's great. Yes, we won.

Michael Wilbon (8:26)

Shot your shop credit for the 2025 season is something to very exciting.

Tony Kornheiser (8:32)

It's very exciting. And then I played yesterday and I played with Tom St Max's Collins father. I played with Steve Rose and I played with Dr. Tom Lockney who had a career day and I was there to watch it and it was wonderful.

Michael Wilbon (8:47)

Was it was the career round from making a couple of birdies or just double avoidance?

Tony Kornheiser (8:51)

No, he birdied seven and he birdied 16.

Michael Wilbon (8:56)

Nice.

Tony Kornheiser (8:56)

And he'd never done that before and he's a wonderful guy and so was very good.

Michael Wilbon (9:00)

And it didn't rain on you.

Tony Kornheiser (9:02)

No, it did not. And it was very good to do that. And then I went inside and I did the thing I like best at Columbia, the turkey club. I had a turkey bacon club sandwich. That's a win. And they're just so happy. I just sit and eat that.

Michael Wilbon (9:14)

No wonder I ever order for dinner.

Tony Kornheiser (9:16)

Made me so happy that I wasn't hungry that much for dinner because a big sandwich that's, you know, I didn't play well, but I had a good time and everything and a good sandwich is all nice.

Michael Wilbon (9:26)

So it sets up the nap.

Tony Kornheiser (9:27)

I had it. Yeah, I took a small nap. I had a good weekend. I thought it was. And the weather because it. It got very cold. Well, it was raw yesterday and this morning. I don't know if you know that very cold tomorrow. Tomorrow. Yeah, tomorrow. I thought it was like it was around 40 this morning. Yeah, but. But tomorrow facing it's going to be 28. 28. When Chessy and I go out, it's going to be 28 degrees and if it's blowing it's going to feel like 15. That's a line pants day, right? I don't know yet.

Michael Wilbon (9:55)

Really kind of decision.

Tony Kornheiser (9:57)

I don't know. I don't know. It depends on how the weather we're going.

Michael Wilbon (9:59)

Hand warmers.

Tony Kornheiser (10:01)

I don't have hand warmers. I have gloves. I don't have hand warmers. Should. Do you have hand warmers? Should I read this Ryan Rossillo thing? Sure. We did get a number of emails on this and I also. Ryan Rossillo has a radio show or is it a podcast? Is it video as well as. I am not sure. I am not sure either. But this comes from Wednesday, November 6th. It comes from an emailer, Kirk in Omaha who talks about Ryan show with his co hosts Ceruti S I r U T I and Bill Simmons, his nephew Kyle. Enjoy the following exchange from the show emailer. You guys really flush the mouse. Ryan. Ever heard that one before? Kyle? Nope. Ryan. I like it. You can start using that. See if you can use that this week. Get back to us. Kyle. I'm going to my buddy son freshman's football game today. Maybe I'll see if I can work that in in the stands. There'll probably be no one there. Ryan. This has to be a foreign thing. It's got to be overseas. Cerutty. Looking it up online. Flush the mouse is to take a rash action. Viewed in hindsight is stupid. Tony really flushed the mouse when he picked Kentucky to win the NCAA tournament. This is from Urban Dictionary. Ryan. It's probably from some fable or something, right? It's probably actually not. It'd be a weird storybook, I guess, if there's a mouse getting flushed. Kyle. Yeah, but who knows, Man? Fables, those things go hard. Ryan. Yeah, the Brothers Grimm. It's a lot worse than you think. Than the movies you've seen. So. So our phrase got on their show. Isn't that nice? Yes. I forgot. I got. I got a text from Mark Feinstein last night who sent me all of this as well. He's like, you've got to listen to it. Oh, so you heard it? I haven't listened to it yet because it was late at night and I was like, oh. Anyway, we await the next iteration of mouse. Yeah. And if anybody wants to call, well, everybody who knows this show. No, we actually flushed the mouse. That was an actual mouse. I made a mistake. Flushed. It wasn't a euphemism. Was an actual thing. Real deal. All right, so we're back on track now. And so when we return, we will have Michael Wilbon and I am Tony Kornheiser. This is the Tony Kornheiser show. Have you ever awakened in the middle of the night wondering how vulnerable my home could be? If you have Simplisafe, you wouldn't have to wonder anymore. Just ask Nigel. He's trusted SimpliSafe for six years now. Old school security systems only react after someone breaks in. But Simplisafe can stop a break in before it happens. It's Active Guard Outdoor Protection uses AI powered cameras to detect threats outside and alert trained security agents immediately. Those agents can confront intruders, trigger sirens, spotlights, notify police even if you're not home. With no long term contracts, no hidden FEES, and a 60 day money back guarantee, it's no wonder U.S. news & World Report has named Simplisafe the best home security system five years running. Don't miss out on Simplisafe's biggest sale of the year, 60% off. Right now, our listeners can save 60% on a SimpliSafe home security system@simplisafe.com Tony that's simplisafe.com Tony there's no safe like Simplisafe. This is the Tony Kornheiser Show.

Paul Finebaum (13:07)

TONY KORNHEISER Show.

Show Announcer (13:10)

When the Winter Wind.

Tony Kornheiser (13:13)

This is Patty Larkin. This is a song called Winter Wind. And you're probably saying, that's really good. And I'm gonna say, yeah. Michael Granberry sent it to us and he writes, patty Larkin is the only songwriter I know who's been honored with by a big city with her own special day, a designation she received when the mayor of Boston proudly declared Patty Larkin Appreciation Day. Born and raised in the upper Midwest, Patty grew up in a musical and artistic family, comes from a long line of Irish American singers and storytellers. After graduating from the University of Oregon, Patti moved to Boston, immersed herself in music, busking on the streets of Cambridge and studying jazz guitar at the Berklee College of Music, which I add, parenthetically, is fabulous. Patti and her family now make their home on Cape Cod. More about her later. This is called Winter Wind. It plays in Mike Wilbon. And normally on a Monday, we would talk about college football and we would talk about pro football, and we will. But there are two deaths of significance. Paul Tagliabu, at 84 years old, the former commissioner of the NFL and a great commissioner. And Lenny Wilkins, at 88 years old, hall of Famer, both as a coach and a player. Mike, let's start with Paul Tagliabu because I know that your relationship with him was on a personal level. Tell us about it.

Paul Finebaum (14:28)

Yeah, Tony. I was covering the league when one day it came as a shock that Pete Roselle just out of nowhere was going to retire. And league went on a search which took some time and was sort of contentious. A lot of people in the league at the time wanted Jim Finks, general manager, architect of the Bears championship team, to be the commissioner. But ultimately, after a ton of votes, they settled on Paul Tadlia, but who had already been the league's lawyer and was familiar with everything and was respected by everyone and had no sort of baggage whatsoever. And it turned out to be an incredible selection just because it worked. There was no labor stoppage during Paul's time. It was the Difficulty he had nine, 11. I mean, there was just there was stuff that was difficult that he had to wade into. The Rooney rule, the hiring in the NFL, which was lagging behind every other sport. So there was that stuff professionally. And because he lived here in Washington and because I was covering the league, I got to know Paul even before he was commissioner. I started thinking about this, Tony last night, the day he was elected commissioner, I think it happened in Cleveland. And I was on a Piedmont flight. Remember Piedmont Airlines?

Tony Kornheiser (15:55)

I remember. I do, I do.

Paul Finebaum (15:57)

And I was, I was sitting in first class with Brian Burwell, the late great friend of mine and yours, Brian Burwell and mine and Paul and yours and Paul and Chan, his wife of 60 years, at least. Paul and Chan were walking to the back of the plane and Paul Tagley, Booth, for people who don't know, played basketball in Georgetown, was the all time rebounding leader until Patrick Ewing, I think, broke his records. Paul and Chan are going to the back of the plane. I go, no, no, no, I'm never going to be able to do anything that matters again to give you take this seat and sit up here. And he laughed about it. And you know, Paul was the neighbor of yours now in Chevy Chase, Bethesda community, and lived his life largely here, even though he had a presence in New York and just a person who, you know, there was the commissioner and then there was Paul Tagliabu, this person who I got to know who was not officious in any way, but an incredibly generous soul, brilliant man. And just, you know, I, I've seen him a couple of times recently in the neighborhood and knew that things weren't going as well as anybody would like to have them in terms of health. But it was great to run into him socially when I did.

Tony Kornheiser (17:28)

He, he was a man of principle and he was a large man physically, as you are saying. And the most, the greatest accomplishment of his tenure actually was labor peace because he had a personal relationship with Gene Upshaw. A lot of people criticize this, but in fact, every other sport has been interrupted and football had not. Right?

Paul Finebaum (17:52)

That's right. Yes, Tony, and the relationship with Gene Upshaw is critical to that. Again, two people who lived here in greater Washington, you know, Gene and his wife, that whole tenure were in McLean and their offices were downtown, of course, the NFLPA. And they had a partnership and they knew each other and they went to lunch and they had dinners and their families knew each other. Yes. And I got to see that up close because I'm here. And yes, that labor piece was, was, was important to Both of them. And they both, as you know, were criticized heavily at times.

Tony Kornheiser (18:33)

Yes.

Paul Finebaum (18:34)

By their own constituents for not having more, for not getting more. And I know that both of them, Tony, they took that as, you know, what we must be doing. Okay. Because there must be something in the middle. We're reaching here because both sides are critical in the same ways.

Tony Kornheiser (18:55)

No, this is all true. I mean, Paul Tagliabu, he saved the city of New Orleans for a football team.

Paul Finebaum (19:02)

Yes.

Tony Kornheiser (19:03)

The owner wanted to move to San Antonio after Hurricane Katrina, and Paul Tagliebu said, oh, no, no, no, you're gonna stay in New Orleans. Much to the great delight of people in New Orleans. He also was a zydeco fan, as it turns out. He loved the music of New Orleans. I had conversations with him, and Mike's had conversations with him. And the reason we've had conversations with him was because he read the Washington Post and he actually liked our work. You know, so, I mean, he was. He knew George Solomon very well. I mean, he was a fan of ours, a fan of Bill Gilday's. You know, he really. Yeah, he was. Taglibu was a huge presence in the history of the NFL. He's not Pete Roselle. No, nobody is Pete Roselle, but Paul Tagliabu did a tremendous job. I'll just flip this now. Lenny Wilkins. Did you. You must have known Lenny. Oh, you must have covered some of his teams, right? What did you think of him?

Paul Finebaum (20:00)

Yeah, Tony. I mean, Lenny as. As you know, because you got to see the player at. Late in his career. Yes, Wilkins and I, I, I did, too, as a. As a teenager. But Lenny Wilkins, and I remember it, and I remember what he was like and playing in Portland and Seattle. And Lenny Wilkinson basically put a face on sports. There was no baseball, no Mariners, yet. He put a. There was no Seahawks. He put a face on the Pacific Northwest playing in both those cities and coaching. And Lenny then became a coach of somebody. Now, Tony, he had records. I mean, he had the most victories. He probably had the most losses at some point. He coached the great players. He was. I think he was an assistant on the Dream Team. If I'm not, if I'm not mistaken, he was. He was.

Tony Kornheiser (20:53)

He went into the hall of Fame both as a coach and a player. Like, people, nobody knows this because nobody's old enough. I remember Lenny Wilkins at Providence College. Lenny Wilkins was the, you know, people remember Jimmy Walker. No, no, no, no. Lenny Wilkins was the first great guard. The first great guard at Providence College. And, and then he came into the pros and spent, you know, he was an all star orphan at Atlanta. He's a New York City kid. So I was partial towards him. And he was, you know, quiet and kind, it seemed to me, and classy all the time and still has coach more games in the NBA than anyone else.

Paul Finebaum (21:34)

Than anybody else.

Paul Finebaum (continued or another guest) (21:35)

Yeah.

Paul Finebaum (21:35)

You know, we had great sense of humor, Tony. And because Lenny's one of those guys who, you know, again, literate and urbane and, and Lenny.

Tony Kornheiser (21:46)

Yeah.

Paul Finebaum (21:47)

Well, you know, Lenny would just. The questions, you know, was a smaller scrum when we were doing this after games and they would become conversations and Lenny would pick you out and say, wait a minute, wait, who are you? What are you doing? And he would get to know people and you, you know, you could go to shoot around and sit around and talk to Lenny Wilkins, which to me, you know, watching him play as a young person, as a kid, a teenager, and then him in that role, he was, he was just so calm. It seemed all the time to do that thing that he did when, when, when so many of his contemporaries read our back would never be described on any day of the week as calm. And just to lose both of them like that yesterday was jarring.

Tony Kornheiser (22:35)

Here's the thing about Lenny Wilkins. He was a player coach.

Paul Finebaum (22:40)

Yeah. Yeah.

Tony Kornheiser (22:40)

And then after that he was a real coach because he showed people, I can do this. And then he had this whole other career as a non player coach for 30 more years. Whatever he did, I mean, he was. Yes, these guys were Giants. I don't, I don't want to make this whole thing sound sad on any level, so I'll get to something that I know made you nuts yesterday and crazy happy. And that was the Bears coming back against the Giants. And you said to me on the phone while we were talking during that game, you don't think that would have happened if Jackson dart hadn't gone out?

Paul Finebaum (23:16)

No, no, we could not deal with Jackson dart.

Show Announcer (23:18)

He.

Paul Finebaum (23:18)

He rushed for two touchdowns, he thrown for 270 yards and he wasn't even in there late. He wasn't even in there. Yeah. Now the Bears, it wasn't a fluke. I mean, they got after him a little bit and hit him and he suffered a concussion, which is terrible. I don't care what the result of the game is, but he, I don't know. Russell Wilson had a couple of big plays, including a 41 yard pass play. That's right.

Tony Kornheiser (23:45)

That's right.

Paul Finebaum (23:45)

A field goal. So it's not like Russ came in and was just, you know, screwing up because he wasn't. But he couldn't get it done at the end of the game against the Bears defense, which is at best porous.

Tony Kornheiser (23:56)

Right.

Paul Finebaum (23:57)

But you know, for most people the headline will be that the Bears won their sixth game in seven, six times in seven games. And Caleb Williams said his fourth, fourth quarter comeback of the season. And so, you know, it's interesting here, Tony. Every community is different. Caleb Williams is born and raised. He is of Washington D.C. yep. And when, when, when a kid is like that in my hometown, it doesn't matter who he plays for. You can go against him on Sunday if you're playing. But you, he's yours. You claim him. You, you know how we are in Chicago, we claim people who are ours. I don't get that sense here. I don't get the sense here that people pay that much attention to Caleb Williams, even though he is Wholly of Washington D.C. not of the DMV, Washington D.C. and he won a Heisman. He was the first overall draft pick. And I don't sense there's any sort of, you know, great groundswell for him as a young player who's improving, who could be a significant figure in the National Football League. Now that is closer to me at this point because of who he plays for. But again, there are all kinds of kids who grew up in Chicago and never played for Chicago based team. And we clutched them, held them dear. I don't get that sincere.

Tony Kornheiser (25:29)

I agree with you. I have a partial explanation or just a theoretical explanation because they don't. Look, Markelle Fultz was of this area and was the number one draft choice that nobody cared. And nobody cared. The days of Elgin Baylor are gone. You know, the days of Adrian Dantley are gone. This kid, and my only theory would be, well, he went to like Oklahoma and then he went to usc and he was never close. And his games, his college games did not matter here because he was not in a conference where they had any relationship with Washington D.C. i don't know, I'm clutching at straws here, but I don't think like James Wood, the left fielder for the Nationals who had like 35 home runs this year. He's from here, he's from only. And nobody can.

Paul Finebaum (26:20)

It doesn't make any sense.

Tony Kornheiser (26:22)

I don't, I don't think this is that city. I, I don't think it's that.

Paul Finebaum (26:26)

Apparently not.

Tony Kornheiser (26:28)

Yeah, because it's not just him. It's every sport.

Paul Finebaum (continued or another guest) (26:33)

You just hit.

Paul Finebaum (26:33)

You just hit a few. I didn't even know about J. How do we not know about James Wood and Tony? You and I worked in this place when people clutch to Boomer Siason because he played his college games here and he's not even from here.

Tony Kornheiser (26:47)

Right.

Paul Finebaum (26:47)

He's Long island in the last 40 years. I don't, I don't like it.

Tony Kornheiser (26:52)

I could be wrong on this. Isn't Dominique Dawes from here?

Paul Finebaum (26:56)

Yes.

Tony Kornheiser (26:57)

Or is it just settled here?

Paul Finebaum (26:59)

No, no, no, no, no, no. Dominic is from Washington D.C. and lives in Montgomery County.

Tony Kornheiser (27:06)

Right. And I don't think anybody cares about her for that reason. And I, and I think most people talk about Simone Biles who's, you know, who's not from here. So I'm just not sure that Washington is that kind of city. I'm not, I don't know.

Paul Finebaum (27:21)

Yeah, yeah, it's weird. It's weird. But, but anyway. But you know, I went down a rabbit hole there. But I, you know Caleb, okay. He's still a work in progress and you know, but, but they're six and three and it's funny, the season's turn it pivoted once again on the Bears commanders game last year. Of course the Hail Mary lose every game. And then this year the field goal at the end of the game after that fumble has now the Bears have won six of seven.

Tony Kornheiser (27:55)

And how many is Washington won? None. None. Washington is the one that went down the drain now, right?

Paul Finebaum (28:02)

Yes. It is so weird. And I understand when you get an injury to your starting quarterback, you know anybody's going to suffer that way. But the defense is dreadful, which is not. That's bad, excusable. And it's kind of, it's kind of difficult to understand the whole not signing Terry McLaurin and getting him in and now he's got a wasted year. Terry McLaurin's a rumor. He's not even out there. So it's just a strange thing that's happened to them. And so what now, now that they lost to Detroit, do they put him, do they shut him down for the season? Do they shut Jaden down for the, for the year?

Tony Kornheiser (28:41)

Not if he's healthy. I mean if he's, if there's no if there's no need for an operation. When he's healthy, he comes back in because he's football player and you want to see right what he can do. I mean I don't think you put him in jeopardy, but he puts himself in jeopard mike on every run, pass option. He runs, he runs. He wants to run. What are you doing?

Paul Finebaum (29:01)

I know you were doing this. I, I know you were. You might have been the first person that I know who drew the immediate comparison. It was fear because I know how much you loved Robert Griffin. I know. And you, you, I didn't see, I didn't really see it. And I thought you were overreacting in real time. As it turns out, it looks like you haven't.

Tony Kornheiser (29:25)

I think I had that one. All right, I'll see you later. We'll do the show later. I'll talk to you. Goodbye. All right, Tom, Michael Wilbon, boys and girls, we will take a break. Paul Feinbaum will join us when we come back. I'm Tony Kornheiser. You're listening to the Tony Kornheiser Show.

Paul Finebaum (29:43)

The Tony Kornheiser Show.

Tony Kornheiser (29:51)

Once again, this is Patty Larkin. This is a song called the Snow Light, which features the Parkington Sisters. And I go back to Michael Granberry's Letter. Her songs have been recorded by a who's who of artists, including Cher, who covered Patty's song Angels Running. Plus, Patty's songs have graced the soundtracks of multiple movies, including the Sidney Pollock film Random Heart starring Harrison Ford and Kristen Scott Thomas. In keeping with the season that will soon be upon us, Patti gives her permission in the email below for you to play one of my all time favorite ballads, winter Wind and the Snowlight, from her terrific 2020 album Bird in a Cage. In addition, how's this for sports trivia? Appearing with Patti on her song the Snowlight are the Parkington sisters, who joined the Dropkick Murphys in singing the national anthem before Game 6 of the 2013 World Series at Fenway, leading to the first World Series home win for the Boston Red Sox since 1918. Again, this is called the Snow Light. It plays in Paul Finebaum and we got to get to college football. And by the way, I should tell you that it gives me great pleasure when you appear on SportsCenter with Heather Dinich and Heather talks and you smile in the background and you go the other way. And it makes me very happy. It does. It always. Did you know Heather Dinich was, she was an intern at the Post. That's how she started as a sports writer. She was an intern at the Post. So. And lives in the area around here.

Paul Finebaum (continued or another guest) (31:16)

Yes, she lives in Maryland.

Paul Finebaum (31:17)

Yeah.

Paul Finebaum (continued or another guest) (31:17)

Hey, Tony, I've had a lot of years of experience at, at, at 5:30 in the afternoon watching two people smile while they're talking about completely different opinions. So.

Tony Kornheiser (31:29)

Yeah, that's how it goes. Let's, let's Start. Yeah, let's understand that it doesn't matter what the AP rankings are anymore, doesn't matter what the coaches poll, that. That. That doesn't matter. Only thing that matters is the committee. The committee, last week in its first show had Ohio State number one. Although, and I watched with great interest in this, that Joey Galloway and Greg McElroy were talking about how there is an analytic formula that they said could put Texas A and M number one. I don't think anyone will disagree that the top three now in the committee ranking are going to be the teams that stayed unbeaten even though Indiana had to sweat. Ohio State, Indiana and Texas A and M. How do you. What order do you put them in?

Paul Finebaum (continued or another guest) (32:17)

I would probably lean more and more toward Texas A and M because of their schedule. But ultimately, even though we're paid, Tony, to be outraged, I found no outrage at all by that first committee, because I'm going to sound like a curmudgeon here, but this is a television show benefiting ESPN and literally nobody else, because it's. It's like a. It's like a poll in a presidential election two years out. It is going to change. And there's no foundation, really, for why we are where we are, because the schedule and the power ratings will shift week to week. But I think as it stands, those are the three best teams in the country. Indiana is my least favorite of the trio. And it really, on the schedule, they. I mean, they had to. They had to pull a miracle off to beat a team that's already fired its coach and wanted him gone so badly they paid him $52 million to leave.

Tony Kornheiser (33:13)

You know, I get all of that, amazingly enough. I was talking with Wilbon. In the last five minutes of that game. Wilbon called my house and he said, are you watching? And I said, what? And he said, you got to watch Indiana. Penn State's up. You got to watch it. So we're watching the game in different locations, but, you know, we're talking throughout, and I was so taken by how Indiana came back. I understand, and it's on the road, at least, but I understand Penn State is a shadow of what they were when the initial rankings came out. But I thought that was a Heisman moment for the quarterback, and I thought that was the best catch I'd seen all year by a receiver. And so I was charmed by it and didn't want to drop them. You know what I mean? Didn't want to drop them, you know.

Paul Finebaum (continued or another guest) (34:01)

And I would agree. I was. I was watching it in a Sports bar in the south where everyone was rooting for Penn State. That's never happened before, and it was. But it was remarkable. And yes, back to the Heisman moment. That's how you win the Heisman Trophy. And Mendoza probably, you know, cemented himself at the front of the first row in New York. But ultimately.

Paul Finebaum (34:28)

I mean, I don't want.

Paul Finebaum (continued or another guest) (34:29)

To keep saying it doesn't matter, because it does matter. We love moments like that. And that, that was probably the best moment of the college football season. But ultimately, Indiana has. Is a very good team, fantastic coach, and I'm going to sound parochial here, but I would like to see them go through a gauntlet like Alabama or Texas A and M or Georgia or some of these schools have gone through. They'll have to do that to advance in the playoffs, though, so it won't. My. My beef in early November won't matter in December and January.

Tony Kornheiser (35:03)

Yeah, I mean, it's. I mean, because I talk to Wilbon all the time and he's a Big Ten guy. I may be a little bit more partial to the Big Ten than an objective observer would be, but I look at the sec, my God, there's like seven teams that can beat anybody in the country at any given time. Right. And A and M isn't even the one you think about, even though they are, you know, they are ranked higher than all the others.

Paul Finebaum (continued or another guest) (35:28)

No, they are. And there is an overload. And the most fascinating team is Vanderbilt. Tony.

Tony Kornheiser (35:38)

Yeah.

Paul Finebaum (continued or another guest) (35:40)

They have a quarterback, Diego Pavia, who played at New Mexico State for a couple of years and countless teams passed on him, and he went to Vanderbilt, and he's in about the sixth or seventh year. He keeps suing the NCAA and winnings where he might be there a while, but. But he's just charming to watch. And they are still. They are still in the playoffs. They had to go to overtime Saturday at home. Auburn, which used to be a power and has already fired its coach, which is the theme in the SEC this year. But, but can you imagine, I mean, the idea that Vanderbilt and Indiana could meet in the college football playoffs is truly one of the most remarkable things in my lifetime.

Tony Kornheiser (36:24)

Oh, sure, absolutely. I mean, Vanderbilt was a patsy. Vanderbilt was to the SEC what Kansas was to the Big Eight, and then the Big Ten, Big 12, whatever they are these days. Do you, Paul, do you give Oregon a pass for winning in the rain and winning late and. Or do you say to yourself, you know what? Oregon is one of those teams that we overrate every year?

Paul Finebaum (continued or another guest) (36:48)

Well, we do overrate Them, But. But I will give them a pass. And I'm. Because, you know, I have a lot of experience sitting in the stands at Iowa for a football game. But 30 degrees and rain, they still won. And Iowa is a traditional 8 and 4, 9 and 3 team. That, that's capable.

Paul Finebaum (37:07)

But.

Paul Finebaum (continued or another guest) (37:07)

But I see it, maybe because I live in the sec, but there are just very difficult places to win, and that is one of them. So I thought that was very significant win. And I think now you look back six, seven weeks ago when, when Indiana beat them out there, that wasn't such a bad loss, right?

Tony Kornheiser (37:30)

Absolutely. And. But it becomes a really great win for Indiana the more Oregon wins games.

Paul Finebaum (continued or another guest) (37:35)

Yes.

Tony Kornheiser (37:36)

I mean, you always, you always look in comparatives. You know, it's like Notre Dame, Notre Dame's first two losses, they're pretty strong team. Miami gagged. I understand that. But those are pretty strong teams to lose to. And if you don't lose, you have to be in the playoffs, Right? You have to be.

Paul Finebaum (37:54)

Yeah.

Paul Finebaum (continued or another guest) (37:55)

And they notice. Speaking of Notre Dame, everybody was complaining about them last week, but they had a chance. I mean, they're at Pittsburgh this week. This will be one of the most interesting games of the weekend. Game days for the first time in 20 years. And Notre Dame win there will likely give them enough juice to get in. And that will upset everyone, which is fascinating, and that's what I love.

Tony Kornheiser (38:20)

Yeah. Well, let's start at the, at the top of the season when Alabama lost and everybody said, get rid of this guy DeBoer, and now they've won every game since. How impressed with you? How impressed with Alabama are you? Or. Or are you not all that impressed with Alabama?

Paul Finebaum (continued or another guest) (38:39)

They beat LSU by 11 points Saturday night at home. And I've had people call me and say, what's wrong with Alabama? That's. I mean, this is. That's how far they have come. Tony, I was in Tuscaloosa three weeks ago for a game, and early on Saturday morning, I ran into some fat cat. And he called me over and introduced, you know, some big. I don't know what he does. Oral Baron, who knows what he does. And he said, by the way, he said the morning after the Florida State loss, the call started going out among Alabama people. How much are you willing to throw in to the board? That's how bad it was on Labor Day weekend. And now he. He's pretty much already cinched a playoff for us, and it's got a. Got a legitimate shot at the title. I mean, they're not as good as Ohio State yet. But, but they are very capable and they, and Ty Simpson, this quarterback, he's not getting the attention that Mendoza is getting, but he is, he is absolutely phenomenal. And to think about the quarterback at Ohio State right now, Tony Julian saying he, he was on the, he was at Alabama for five weeks before Saban retired. And when Saban retired, he left to go to Ohio State, as did Caleb Downs. Who's the best, who's the best safety in the entire country?

Tony Kornheiser (39:56)

I look at, and you know, Wilburn of course wants the Big Ten to be at least equal to the SEC and probably better. And it's not. It is not for me. It's not for me. But I'm looking at Alabama and Georgia and A and M and Texas and Ole Miss and I'm thinking, because let's be fair, it's a 10 team playoff. That's all it is because you got to have a gang of five team in there. You have to have an ACC team in there. Then you're going to have to have Notre Dame and you're going to have to have, you know, a Big 12 team. So now you're down basically to eight teams and I put six SEC teams and that's what I would do. What would you do?

Paul Finebaum (40:37)

Yeah.

Paul Finebaum (continued or another guest) (40:37)

In fact, you mentioned Greg McElroy earlier. I was talking to him a few minutes ago and he said, right, right. The SEC had three last year. It was a big deal. They'll have at least four, they will likely have five and they could have six. That's how it just depends on a few thirds. And the one thing I'll say is Texas is playing at Georgia this weekend. It's a monster game. If Texas loses, that is their third loss. Most normally you would say they're out. But remember the final weekend of the season, Texas has a home game against Texas A and M and should they beat A and M, it would be one of the better wins of the year. And I think they could sneak in with three losses. That's the 16 right there.

Tony Kornheiser (41:20)

Yeah. The college football season, I'm going to trust your memory much better than mine because when you grow up in New York, college football is not a factor. All you can do is root for army or Syracuse and it's not a factor. But where you grew up and what you've done with your life, have you ever seen a season like this, with the firing of coaches like this and the sort of internal excitement that so many of these games provide?

Paul Finebaum (41:46)

No.

Paul Finebaum (continued or another guest) (41:47)

And a lot of people complain about the playoffs have ruined the regular season. They have not. Tony. I love the NFL, but college football week to week is the most unpredictable and inherently exciting event that we have in football. Because you. I mean, the game we just got through talking about the Penn State should not have been interesting, but it came down to one play. And forget Green Bay and a lot of places in pro football are exciting, but there's nothing like being on a campus and I'm on one every week in the South. The seriousness that people take every little thing, the meticulousness to what type of. What type of china they're having for the tailgate and the tablecloth and the food, as well as the drama of the games. And I think, I can't explain it. I've been covering it for almost 50 years, but it never fails to move you on a Saturday afternoon or Saturday night.

Tony Kornheiser (42:44)

What I love most is the people at Ole Miss. They say if we can't win the game, we can certainly win the party. You know, I just think that's really good, Tony.

Paul Finebaum (continued or another guest) (42:53)

I don't know if you've ever been there, but that's the place I was talking about. I mean, the. The china would blow Tiffany's away on Fifth Avenue. If you walk around the Grove. It's the most incredible experience you'll ever have covering a sporting event because nothing else matters but who has the best food.

Tony Kornheiser (43:13)

Now, once. Once I'd like to go, Paul, you're. You're a great friend for. Given the fact that we had so many problems doing the show today, for waiting around and being on. Thank you, Paul.

Paul Finebaum (continued or another guest) (43:24)

Always my pleasure. Thank you, Tony.

Tony Kornheiser (43:26)

Paul. Fine bound, boys and girls. We will have email and jingle when we return. I'm Tony Kornheiser. You're listening to the Tony Kornheiser show.

Show Announcer (43:37)

Here comes Tony's mail back. Got your emails, faxes in your notes. Here comes Tony's mail back. Going to read some for all of you folks.

Tony Kornheiser (44:04)

That's Tim Wildsmith, our friend in Nashville. I always like him because he's got a tear in his voice. Oh yeah, it's very 50s kind of sounds.

Michael Wilbon (44:12)

We needed some calming music this morning.

Tony Kornheiser (44:13)

Yeah, we did. Very heck. Do the Bethesda bagel ad. Bagel sandwiches on a Monday, wrapped everything. Fantastic. Just go to Bethesda Bagels.com for the location in the DC area nearest you. Then pop on in and you'll be thrilled. Before we get to the mailbag, let me just say don't want your love anymore don't want your kisses. That's for Sure. I die each time I hear this sound. Here he comes. That's Kathy's clown. Those are the Everly Brothers, Don and Phil. It's one of the greatest songs ever done. Oh yeah, Fabulous. Thanks to our guests today, Michael Wilbon and Paul Finebaum. Thanks as well to today's sponsors. Remember, you can listen to us on Apple podcasts, Spotify and Audacy if you get show through Apple. Please leave us. A Review from Paul Kulin K U L O N in Las Vegas hi Captain Tony. I just need to ask a quick policy question. Does it count as a David Aldrich moment if it turns out the dope you know is actually yourself? See, I was driving home after an incredibly difficult day, working in what I consider to be the promised land, when I heard Jeff ma describe his adventure hitching a ride with some nincompoop at Shadow Creek. I thought to myself, wait, I know the dope he's talking about. I'm that dope. I immediately convened an internal debate as to whether or not that counts as a DA moment. I must say, I've been listening for years, but I don't really know the reason. Ruling as to the addendum to the story, I can confirm that, yes, the socialite did come out and play the following day. I met him a year or so ago when he was here, and Alan couldn't have been more pleasant. On this particular trip, I tried not to bother him, so I merely eavesdropped on his conversation with one of our pros. I'm sure that wasn't weird at all. As Jeff mentioned in his previous appearance on your show, we do have a legendary bartender at Shadow named Rhonda. I took it upon myself to play Jeff's segment for Rhonda so she could hear Jeff's kind words. Oddly, I wasn't fully prepared for her follow up question. Whose show is that? First thing I could come up with. Oh, he's a retired charter boat captain with a popular podcast. Yep. Realizing the absurdity, I just turned and walked off. And yes, have clubs, will travel. Michael. I have attached my car save pile. Put that in a save pile. Oh yes, Andy Fleming in Atlanta on the subject of greatest games. Before Reggie, before Ohtani, there was Lars Eden against my Pitching in a 1970 Little League game in Wallingford, Connecticut, Lars Eden came up three times and hit three home runs on three pitches. First time up, rifle shot. Second time, rifle shot. Third time, moonshot that splashed farther out into the lake beyond the left field fence than anyone had ever seen. My coach Let me finish the game, though. Thanks, dad. Sorry.

Michael Wilbon (46:34)

He could still throw a curveball.

Tony Kornheiser (46:35)

Years later, I was driving through my hometown for the first time in decades and saw a law office on Centre street with Lars name on it, not far from where Zachary's Pizza used to be. So I stopped in. Think he remembered me in that game? Wouldn't you? David Epstein in New York? Sure, Shohei had a great game, a spectacular game. But he didn't pitch a perfect game. I, on the other hand, won the 1972 Boy Scout Troop 124 fishing contest with an unprecedented 23 fish caught. Yes, 23 times I cast my line and 23 times I caught a fish. One time I even reeled in my line without so much as a tug, only to find a fish on the hook. A perfect fishing afternoon. Eat it, Shohei. On the subject of eat it, I took home those 23 fish, hoping to revel in the spoils of my glorious afternoon. My grandmother happened to be visiting. Dutifully scaled, cleaned and beheaded each fish. Then my mom threw them all away and we went out for Chinese food. Jonathan Harwood, Yonkers, New York by way of Westbury if we were playing best game ever, I'll have an entry. Junior year of high school, I was a starting punter and tight end for wti. That's William Trust W. Tresper Clark High School in Westbury. I covered games there at the time when I was at Newsday, we were in the midst of what turned out to be a 44 game losing streak. When we finally broke the streak, it made the front page of the Newsday sports section. But I digress. On fourth and long from our 20, I hit the pun in my life, traveling about 50 yards in the air, rolling another 29 rolling out at the one I trotted off the field and soaked in the pats on the back and atta boys. That lasted until the first play from scrimmage when the opposing running back ran 99 yards for a touchdown. Glory is indeed fleeting. From Thomas Bogart in scapoose or scapoosey, Oregon. A lot of talk about Almond Joy and KitKat, but how do we feel about York Peppermint Patties? We love them. Oh, sure, it's more of a winter treat. Love them. Yes. Greg Wells, Dr. Comcast why I'm missing Pennsylvania I love, I'm enjoy. That's it. That's the email from Mark in Los Altos, California. Next time you have Salizza on, ask him about his candy rating article on his sub stack. His number one rated chocolate candy KitKat. Oh, I never have money. Yeah, he's done. Stuart Glickman in Aldi Only Maryland. First time, long time. Your segment with Larry Keith about Sports Illustrator really hit home. I've been reading Sports Illustrated since I was old enough to comprehend sports writing, inheriting my enjoyment of the magazine from my father. For so many reasons, today's SI doesn't compare to the SI of old. But I can't bear to cancel my subscription. I still read every issue. I guess you get it online now is what I'm assuming. When I moved out on my own after college, one of the first things I did was get my own subscription to Sports Illustrated. That felt like a manhood moment for me, unlike Mike Gundy, who waited until he was 40 to declare himself a man. When my father passed away, my mother asked if I wanted any of his junk. Included in that Junk was the first issue of the magazine from 1954. Yes, with Eddie Matthews on the COVID Eddie Matthews. After Wednesday's show, I pulled the magazine off the shelf just to look at the the COVID and stir up some memories of my dad. Thanks for that quick trip down memory lane. From Dylan Lord in Lubeck. Lubeck, Maine. I get L, U, B, E, C. I just saw the birthday shout out on PTI for Tom Sanders. I had the privilege to meet Mr. Satch at a sports card show in Massachusetts, where he was graciously signing autographs. We were on vacation, camping, and my masculine child, 8, woke up sick that morning. So his feminine sibling, 4 tagged along with me. She had no idea who he was, but they hit it off great. And he signed my son's hat with a special inscription. What a legend. Eight rings. No big deal. P.S. i also met another Boston goat on Causeway Street. The quintessential American sportswriter. What an honor to shake that hand. And he's got pictures. He's got pictures of Bob Ryan. Isn't that great? So that's really nice. And pictures of Satch Sanders, which is nice. Kenny Ray, Fort Walton Beach, Florida. A little song, a little dance. Shove a hockey puck down your pants. It's funny. Congratulations from Jason in Tilbury, Ontario, in Canada. I'm catching up on the podcast. Listening to the podcast where you were having trouble placing where Ocean View, Delaware is. It's obviously in the Midwest. Of course. It's Greg Collins. Luca Yuka, Illinois Cap R, uka, Illinois. Let me get this right. Tom Brady brought his dog back to life? Hello. Didn't he read Pet Sematary by Stephen King? And from Neil Airways. Tony, the next time you're in your office, I suggest you look in the pile of mail that was under the 2020 letter to Michael. You should discover the following long missing mailings. 12 denials of coverage by Cigna together with referral for therapy to help you cure the delusion that keeps you filing claims and expecting a different result. 15 late notification fees from payments you mailed that arrived late. Nine additional electricity delivery charges. A geologic survey of your front yard that discloses several strata of limestone and granite that make your yard incapable of supporting horticulture. And your draft notice from 1970. If you're out on your bike tonight, everyone, as always, do wear white. Excuse me.

Show Announcer (51:18)

Can I help you?

Paul Finebaum (51:19)

Well, I'm here to pick up my date. Could you ring Fawn Leibowitz for me?

Tony Kornheiser (51:42)

Sam.

Show Announcer (52:08)

When the winter wind blows cold upon my window and the mood I'm in is darker than the deep blue sea I'm remembering some time that we had long ago Seems you and me long before the winter wind all along the lane they've plowed a way for us to go through the ice and the snow and the chillingly air and if I should go far from the wood smoke through the cold Would you give me your warm hand of hold in the winter window when the winter wind blows cold upon my window sun cuts like a diamond stringing crystals in the air in the afterglow my thoughts turn like the drifting snow Find their way up to your door in the winter.

Tony Kornheiser (54:01)

Wind.

Show Announcer (54:03)

When the winter wind blows cold upon my window and the mood I'm in is darker than the deep blue sea I'm remembering sometime that we had long ago seemed to you and me Long before the winter wind in the snow light in the sunlight in the white on white light A winter storm My delight and your delight Kept each other in the snow light in the swanlight in the white on white light of a winter storm Mind's delight and your delight Kept each other warm the next afternoon in love gone so soon I met myself alone in a way windless calm silenced at the bone out of the white star in the snow Light in the swan light in the white on white night of a winter storm My delight and your delight Kept each other warm what more was to come out from the cocoon in the silent moon Pouring out white light Amaryllis floor open the moon eyes in the snow Light in the swan light in the white on white light Of a winter storm My delight and love the light kept each other of the swan echoing the light after you were gone of our white on white in the snow Light in the swan light in the white on white light A winter storm My delight and your delight kept each other, Sam.