“Has anyone checked on Wilbon?”

Summary

The Tony Kornheiser Show

Episode: “Has anyone checked on Wilbon?”
Date: January 19, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Tony Kornheiser and his familiar roundtable (Jack, Liz, Pat Forde, and guests Dan Graziano and Pat Forde) dig into a wild NFL playoff weekend, the heartbreak of the Chicago Bears’ overtime loss to the Rams (and Wilbon’s absence as he flies home from Chicago), controversial officiating, what makes a memorable play, and the latest in college football as Indiana and Miami square off for the national championship. The episode also covers the quirks and confusions of modern college athletics—including eligibility, the NCAA's dwindling authority, and tonight’s big game.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. FedEx Field Gripes & Tony’s Snowed-Out Golf Weekend

• Intro banter revisits gripes about the dilapidated FedEx Field.
  • Tony: “It’s a dump. It’s the worst. Okay. It’s a slap dash dump... The building had raw flowing sewage in the suites. Come on.” (00:49)
• Tony laments a weekend without golf due to snow, forcing him to be a TV spectator.
  • “You never should expect to be able to play golf...it happens every once in a while.” (02:19)

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2. NFL Playoff Recap: Drama, Officiating, and Heartbreak

Bears vs. Rams: Wilbon in Absentia

• Wilbon is absent—Tony notes he's flying back after the Bears’ crushing loss.
  • “I simply typed to Wilbon, three words: Unbelievable. Unbelievable. Inevitability.” (07:52)
• Tony marvels at the Bears’ audacious last-chance 4th down play:
  • “He begins to run out of the stadium and then somehow finds an open receiver commit... How can he be open? How can that pass... It’s a wow.” (08:26)
• Group debates whether the Bears should’ve gone for two after tying:
  • “Do you think they even thought about going for two?” (11:48)

Denver Survives Buffalo: Controversy & Injuries

• Tony thinks Denver got lucky with officiating: “I think there were two pass interference calls at the end of the game. That were terrible. And they determined the game.” (04:52)
• Surprised at Denver QB Bo Nix finishing the game with a broken ankle:
  • “He’s walking around with a broken ankle. And then Sean Payton has to announce he’s broken his ankle, he’s out for the season.” (05:57)
• Denver now starts long-time backup Jared Stidham:
  • “He hasn’t thrown a pass in the league in two years.” (06:27)

Young QBs Falter in Big Spots

• Tony: “Quarterbacks in their second and or third year… CJ Stroud was awful. Oh, terrible, awful. He was great as a rookie. He’s still a young quarterback and he was terrible yesterday. Drake May wasn’t any good yesterday… Matthew Stafford... wasn’t any good.” (09:20)
• Liz: “For that game and then the Saturday night game, they both... have these empty, hollow feelings to them.” (11:09)

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3. Legendary Play Breakdown: Caleb Williams’ "Miracle" Throw

[Featured segment with guest Dan Graziano]

• Tony opens by declaring the Bears’ 4th-down completion one of the most shocking, high-stakes throws he’s ever witnessed.
  • “Given the stakes, given everything around it... I haven’t seen anything more impactful or more surprising.” (15:25)
• Dan Graziano shares his live reaction:
  • “I was on the phone on live radio... answering some question about, you know, the Patriots defense. And I just like, like you guys, you guys gotta stop. We gotta talk about what just happened. It was unbelievable. He’s 25 yards behind the line of scrimmage.” (15:40)
• Pat40 on Williams:
  • “He’s the least [accurate],” (17:10)
  • “He’s a winner. He’s a total winner.” (17:10)
• Dan on the impossible:
  • “He throws that ball and it doesn’t feel like a prayer. It feels like this is a throw he can make. No one else can, but he can... My goodness, sure, I’ll take it. Like I will take that mission, improve that. I have a guy that can make any throw and... whose pulse just drops in the moments when everyone else’s goes through the roof.” (16:14–18:27)

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4. Officiating, Analytics, and Game Decisions

• Tony on going for it on 4th and 1 in snowy conditions: “Were you surprised he went on 4th and 1?” (18:37)
• Graziano: “I guess I’m never surprised on 4th and 1 anymore because these guys have the data that supports it.” (19:01)

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5. College Football Talk: Indiana vs. Miami Championship

[Conversation with Pat Forde; starts ~31:46]

• Miami's Cinderella run surprises everyone:
  • Pat Forde: “Pretty surprised, quite frankly... All things considered. Yeah. Going to the last day, most people thought Miami was out and Notre Dame was in.” (32:09)
• Indiana’s dominance:
  • Tony: “Indiana has is something like +374 in point differential this year. It is. The number is so high that actually when you see it, you don’t believe it and you assume it must be a misprint. They have destroyed people.” (36:15)
  • Pat: “I think Indiana... I’ll be quite surprised if Indiana loses and frankly quite dismayed as a fan of fun stories to write... It has been such a fairy tale ride and it just, it needs to finish the right way...” (36:48)

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6. College Football Big Picture: Bylaws, NCAA, and Eligibility Chaos

• Tony bemoans college football’s 30-day layoff for bye teams:
  • “That has to be changed. You cannot let people sit out for 30 days. Right. They have to do something.” (38:45)
• NCAA’s vanishing authority and open eligibility:
  • Tony: “Does the NCAA really exist? Is there a body out there that actually makes rules that people adhere to?” (42:13–42:35)
  • Pat Forde: “There is a body out there that actually makes rules. Whether people adhere to them is the question.” (42:35)
• Discussion on player lawsuits for extra eligibility, widespread waivers, and the grimly comic arms-race for older “college-athletes.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Tony on Bears’ OT heartbreak:
  "I simply typed to Wilbon, three words: Unbelievable. Unbelievable. Inevitability. Because I thought they would win. I thought they’d win in the overtime. I thought they’d win. Now the kid throws a pick and they don’t win in the overtime." (07:52)

• Dan Graziano on Caleb Williams’ throw:
  "It was unbelievable. He’s 25 yards behind the line of scrimmage… The miracle is not that someone popped open, it was that you have a quarterback that can make that throw." (16:13, 17:27)

• Liz on the mood after the games:
  "They both have these… empty, hollow feelings to them." (11:09)

• Pat Forde on the NCAA:
  "There is a body out there that actually makes rules. Whether people adhere to them is the question." (42:35)

• Tony with editorial flair:
  "If you asked me who’s the most powerful person in college football, I'd probably tell you it was, you know, the chancellor of Alabama or something like that. Because it doesn't seem like anyone is really paying attention to the NCAA. It doesn't seem that way. Right." (43:13)

• Pat Forde’s blunt take on eligibility shenanigans:
  "Nobody wants to see a bunch of full grown 30 year old adults out there playing football. College is a window of time in your life..." (40:28)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:44 – FedEx Field complaints; snow ruins Tony’s golf plans
• 02:54 – College basketball: Georgetown vs. UConn, and more weekend sports
• 04:52 – Debating NFL officiating and Bills/Broncos ending
• 07:52 – Tony’s reaction to Bears’ overtime loss; memorable “unbelievable, inevitability”
• 08:26 – Play breakdown: Bears’ 4th down miracle to Kmet
• 15:40 – Dan Graziano live-recalls Caleb Williams’ throw
• 18:37 – Analytics and 4th-down decisions discussion
• 19:51 – Talk shifts to Broncos’ luck, PI calls, and quarterback injuries
• 24:35 – Critiquing coaching decisions: D'Ameco Ryans’ late punt
• 31:46 – Pat Forde joins: Indiana vs. Miami championship preview
• 36:15 – Indiana football’s historic dominance; the “best story” stakes
• 38:45 – Layoff consequences for byed college teams
• 40:28 – Player lawsuits and eligibility; NCAA in shambles
• 42:13 – NCAA’s fading authority dissected

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Episode in a Nutshell

From the agony (and awe) of the Bears’ playoff loss and the absence of his longtime co-host Mike Wilbon, to the mind-bending feats of Caleb Williams and the current chaos gripping college sports, Tony Kornheiser orchestrates a lively, insightful, and characteristically tart review of the weekend in sports. The NFL's quirks and dramas, college football’s Cinderella stories, and a parade of memorable personalities (and coaching conundrums) keep the discussion moving fast—ensuring even those who missed the games feel inside the action.

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Quick Recap Table

| Segment | Highlights | Timestamp | |----------------------------------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|--------------------| | FedEx Field & Golf Gripes | Stadium complaints, snowed-out golf | 00:44 – 02:29 | | NFL Playoff Drama | Bears’ heartbreak, controversial calls, QB injuries, coaching decisions | 02:54 – 14:15 | | Caleb Williams Miracle Play | Live reactions, context, QB evaluations | 15:25 – 18:27 | | Coaching Analytics | 4th-down aggressiveness and debatable decision-making | 18:37 – 19:45 | | College Football Preview | Indiana vs. Miami, selection committee debate, fairy tale narratives | 31:46 – 38:01 | | NCAA/Eligibility Chaos | Lawsuits, redshirts, NCAA’s irrelevance, fears for sport’s future | 38:45 – 44:12 |

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This summary preserves the wit, context, and topics of Tony Kornheiser and his guests, giving non-listeners a full sense of the sports drama, the big debates, and the humor that define the show.

Transcript

[Tony Kornheiser]

Hey, it's Tony. If you wonder Wilbon's reaction to the Bears loss in overtime to the Rams gonna have to wait since he's flying back from Chicago. So we'll talk about all the NFL games with Dan Graziano. We'll also talk to Pat40 about what to expect in the college football championship game tonight. But first, Commerce.

[Dan Graziano]

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[Tony Kornheiser]

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[Dan Graziano]

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[Tony Kornheiser]

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[Jack]

Would it have been possible to just lift up FedEx field? Just keep it whole dump Metro accessible?

[Tony Kornheiser]

It's a dump. It's the worst. Okay. It's a slap dash dump. And I don't, you know, don't blame Dan Snyder for this, Jack. Ken Squire. Yeah. Now, people stopped going to it in the last 10 to 12 years because they hated Dan Snyder and they hated the building. Yeah, the building's hateable. The building had raw flowing sewage in the sweets. Come on. The expired beers. Come on.

[Jack]

Yes. All of it.

[Pat40]

Awful.

[Tony Kornheiser]

The Tony Kornheiser show is on now. I had a bad weekend. I couldn't play. I couldn't play golf on Saturday. The courts was closed. There was snow. Yeah, snow on the greens. I mean, it snowed a little bit here. It didn't snow.

[Liz]

Conversational.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, it didn't snow appreciably. You know, there was no snow on the ground, but there was snow on the greens.

[Liz]

So no sledding.

[Tony Kornheiser]

No, they. Not for me. You know, I love that commercial where the three old women sled. I love that. People I went to high school with, I'm sure. So I couldn't play. And then yesterday, Al Serafino and I. Al booked the time in the simulator room, but the. The equipment didn't work well and we couldn't. We were playing a course called Kinsale. I didn't know it, but Al send the course record. Yeah, well, I wasn't. I was barely hitting the ball into the air, but I only took about eight or 10 shots. And then it just kept defaulting. It just. It didn't. It didn't work. So I. All I did was watch.

[Liz]

I'm sure there's an Automatic update for that.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. Well, it didn't work. I watched a lot of football and I was upset and you know, you know, no golf and I mean it happens every once in a while. You never should expect to be able to play golf.

[Liz]

It is January.

[Jack]

January.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. You should never expect. It's always good. So what else did I do? I landed on Yukon against Georgetown, which I thought because people I know who went to Georgetown said that's a 40 point game, no reason to go. Why would I go? Yeah, it was three with a minute to go. And Georgetown played very well. Connecticut never pulled. Connecticut won the game.

[Jack]

Won the game. Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Just never pulled away. So whoever didn't go to that one may have made a mistake. And I won't mention any names. What else? Kevin Stefanski gets the Atlanta job. Wilbon thought the Atlanta job was the best job. He doesn't like Kevin Stefanski. No, but Kevin Stefanski has the Atlanta job. Indiana and Miami is tonight. Yes. Everybody is going to watch it. We're on an hour earlier on the PTI show today.

[Liz]

Nice get done earlier.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. Clear us out of the way to get ready for the college the early bird special. It's fine. Yeah. I mean that's what we are. We are the early bird special tonight. That's fine. I don't mind that. I will say this because I made a big deal about this in college and I'm going to explain the difference. It's pretty easy. In the NFL there were two by teams. The two number one seeds. Seattle was the number one seed and Denver was the number one seed. Seattle in the nfc, Denver and the afc, both of them won in college. By teams don't win. Indiana was the only by team to win in two years. Seven of the eight by teams lost. And here's the difference. In college, you're sitting out 30 days. Yeah. Like 30 in the pros you're taking a week off. You're having the bye week like you had in the regular season. You know, it's okay. You're not sitting and sitting and sitting. There's no inherent advantage to the team that played last week to play again this week against the by team. If it's three weeks, it's different. But in three weeks you're sitting out one week. And then the most amazing thing happened with one of the teams that won in the, you know, in the bi week and that was Denver. Denver lost their quarterback. Denver is playing against Buffalo. I think, me personally, I think there were two pass interference calls at the end of the game. That were terrible. And they determined the game.

[Liz]

The first one worse than the second.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yes, yes, terrible. You know, it's a 30 yard call. It determines the game. And I thought that the pass that went up from Josh Allen to his receiver, when the receiver lands on the ground and then the ball is taken from him, I thought personally that that should have been a catch. And down by contact. Okay, so none of those things worked out. Denver, all of the calls went to Denver. And you say to yourself, well, Denver's had a good team. And Josh Allen, who may never get to a Super bowl, he's a great, great, great player. But he had four turnovers.

[Jack]

Yeah, he did.

[Tony Kornheiser]

He personally had four turnovers. He probably had the worst playoff game he's ever had. And so you feel badly for him in that regard, but then you find out, wait a second, what, Bo Nix broke his ankle. And then they show the play a couple of times and it, you don't see anything. And he stays in the game. Stays in the game.

[Liz]

So where exactly was it, you know, in terms of plays before the kneel down?

[Tony Kornheiser]

I think it was, I thought it was, I thought they did two full plays after that.

[Jack]

Yeah, I think that's what it was.

[Tony Kornheiser]

And he's walking around with a broken ankle. And then Sean Payton has to announce he's broken his ankle, he's out for the season. The season's one game.

[Pat40]

Season.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So they go to a guy named Jared Stidham. You may have heard of Jared Stidham. He was drafted five, six, seven years ago by the Patriots.

[Jack]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

And when Tom Brady had left, there was some sense that Jared Stidham was going to be the quarterback. He didn't become the full time quarterback.

[Jack]

No.

[Tony Kornheiser]

In some sense he'd be the quarterback.

[Jack]

Might have started a game.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. And everything would be fine. He hasn't thrown a pass in the league in two years.

[Jack]

Yeah, 20, 23.

[Liz]

I don't wonder what incentive he has for starting a playoff game.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, look, here's a guy who's going to, he's going to start the AFC championship game because I don't think the rules permit you to go get, I don't know, Philip Rivers. I don't think you can do it.

[Jack]

Tom Brady, I don't.

[Tony Kornheiser]

John Elway. I don't think you're allowed to do it. No. So you got to go with what you got. And I, I mean, to me this is an enormous advantage for New England. And you say, well, New England has to go on the road. Denver's weather even at its Worst is no worse than New England's weather just the other day. It's not any worse than that. That's not going to have an effect on them. It's not. They're not Miami.

[Jack]

Plus you probably got a book on Stidham since he was in your facility.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I just. That one doesn't feel like a real game, does it? You know, it just. It seems that. That New England will win that game. I'm not talking about point spread. Just win. Just win the game. The other game is going to be Seattle against the Rams. They've played twice this year. They are the two best teams in the nfc. But what happened yesterday with the Chicago Bears, it's unbelievable. Now you're going to say, well, we will talk to Wilbourne. Now. Mike's in the air. Mike's flying. Mike's. We're not going to have Mike. We're going to have Dan Graziano. Dan Graziano is going to be.

[Liz]

Wilbur needs some space today, I think.

[Tony Kornheiser]

But I sat there. I don't usually stay up. I stayed up. I watched it and I simply typed to Will Bond, three words. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. Inevitability. Yeah. Because I thought they would win. I thought they'd win in the overtime. I thought they'd win. Now the kid throws a pick and they don't win in the overtime.

[Liz]

Got a little chesty after that fourth down.

[Tony Kornheiser]

But that fourth down play, I'd like you to tell me what's a better play that you've seen. It's the end of the game. It's the last. It's their last chance.

[Pat40]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

It's the playoffs. The winner goes to the NFC championship game. It's fourth down and whatever. It's not fourth and three. It's fourth and more than 10. Yeah. And he begins to run the other way. Turns around, he begins to run out of the stadium and then somehow finds an open receiver commit in a tight end in the left corner of the end zone. How can he be open wide open? How can he be open? How can that pass. It's the easiest pass he's ever caught in his life. It should just say to yourself, wow. It's a wow.

[Jack]

Did you see the cornerback's reaction right afterwards? Immediately started pointing fingers at the everybody.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. What are you pointing at somebody else?

[Jack]

It was you.

[Tony Kornheiser]

It was you.

[Jack]

That was your man.

[Tony Kornheiser]

You're supposed to be covering him.

[Jack]

You can't let that happen. You know you can't. Yeah. Just amazing.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Brutal.

[Jack]

They're going to win. Of course they're going to roll to the winner.

[Tony Kornheiser]

And they didn't win because he. Because, look, let's talk about quarterbacks in their second and or third year. CJ Stroud was awful. Oh, terrible, awful. He was great as a rookie. He's still a young quarterback and he was terrible yesterday. Drake May wasn't any good yesterday. No, people talk about Drake May as the mvp. Drake May wasn't any good. Now this is bad weather. Yeah, this is bad weather. And in the Rams game, the mvp, Matthew Stafford's going to be the mvp. Wasn't any good. He wasn't any good. He was sailing balls. There was wind. You know, Matthew Stafford missed passes by distances that you say to yourself, was that Matthew Stafford, because he's a great quarterback over a long period of time. So Caleb Williams is going to throw interceptions. Caleb Williams is going to make mistakes. He's not the most accurate passer. But to me, there are two plays that stood out this year. One in college and one in the pros. The college play was the Indiana pass against Penn State at the end of the game that won the game and kept them undefeated. That Fernando Mendoza threw at the back of the end zone. Great catch. Just a great. I thought when I saw that, I thought that was him announcing his Heisman Trophy. And then last night, I mean, what did, what did you think when you saw it?

[Liz]

It is unbelievable.

[Tony Kornheiser]

You just.

[Liz]

You can't. You can't imagine how he even gets that off because you just assume somebody is going to sack him because he.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Four guys are chasing.

[Liz]

So for the first five yards, like, okay, it's sort of a baseball play. He's an outfielder tracking down a fly ball. And then he keeps going. I don't even know how he is able to get enough air under it to get it to the end zone.

[Tony Kornheiser]

He's going backwards and it's a perfect pass. Yeah. It's just truly unbelievable to me.

[Liz]

So for that game and then the Saturday night game, they both have these, you know, they're overtime, they're. They're exciting. The last minute of regulation and they just have these empty, hollow feelings to them.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yes.

[Jack]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I mean, you gotta be rooting for the Bears at that point.

[Jack]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I mean, I'm sitting here, I'd said on television six weeks ago, I thought the Rams were gonna be in the Super Bowl. So, I mean, I'm. I'm invested in the Rams and I'm rooting for the Bears. I'm rooting for Wilbon at that point. I'm rooting for Wilbon. They. This was the Was this the eighth time? Well, they didn't actually win. It was the seventh or eighth time. They were behind in the last two minutes of the game and either won it or now tied it.

[Jack]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Do you think. Do you think they even thought about going for two?

[Jack]

I was wondering.

[Liz]

I was wondering about that.

[Tony Kornheiser]

To try to win, would they go for two? They didn't. Ben Johnson didn't go for two.

[Jack]

Now you almost think you've got them, you've got all the momentum. Just do it right now.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Well, I guess they were, you know, I guess they were educated by the fact that every time they went fourth and one, they got stoned.

[Jack]

Yeah. And they had just been down at the gold.

[Liz]

They were losing yardage on those.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Jack]

So.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So maybe not the safe play, but yeah. Yeah, it is safe.

[Jack]

I mean, there had to be a moment where. And I don't want to put thoughts in Wilbourne's head where he's thinking about flights and what restaurants in Seattle he's going to go to, because you're going to go, you know.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Jack]

Just cruel.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So at one point, at many points, rather, I've talked about coach of the year in the NFL. Those votes are all in there. That's a. It's not. Has nothing to do with the playoffs. The votes are all in. But for me, it was going to be Vrabel or Ben Johnson or Liam Cohen. And then in the last couple of weeks, a lot of people mentioned Kyle Shanahan because of what Kyle Shanahan had done with San Francisco, given a tremendous amount of injuries to San Francisco players. I'll just say this. Shanahan's out. Liam Cohn is out. Ben Johnson is out. Mike Vrabel's still in. He's still in. So I had always thought it'd be Vrabel, and now I'd be very comfortable making the mo. The vote for Mike Vrabel. Mike Vrabel on the sidelines, to me, inspires confidence. I mean, he's a guy who, if he has to, will put on a helmet and go play himself.

[Jack]

Was it the other week?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Tough guy.

[Liz]

He looked like he might have needed a hat yesterday in the rain with.

[Tony Kornheiser]

The snow, but he didn't care.

[Jack]

I think it was the other. He headbutted one of the players, you know, has like, Drew blood.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Broke his lip. Yeah. My understanding is that he and d' Amico, Ryan's are pals and they coached against each other and. And, you know, and that was a good game. It was. That was a sloppy game, but it.

[Jack]

Was an entertaining game.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Jack]

Although I have the spreads for the, for the games.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Oh, I, I, I have to believe that Denver can't be the favorite even at home.

[Jack]

New England giving five and a half and Seattle giving two and a half.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Seattle should be favored. Yeah, I just, Seattle's at home thought.

[Jack]

It might be a little bit more because it looks so dominating.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Well, you know, the Rams are good, and the Rams are really good. They're very familiar with one another. It's probably not going to be snow and ice. Probably not. You don't know. All right, we will take a break. When we come back, Dan Graziano will explain every game that went on over the weekend. I'm Tony Kornheiser.

[Dan Graziano]

You're listening to the Tony Kornheiser Show.

[Dana Denise]

I didn't know there could be so many rules.

[Tony Kornheiser]

This is a song called no Rules. It's by a woman named Dana Denise. This is sent to us by a friend of hers. Dan Bray says, I'm submitting these songs on behalf of my friend Dana, whom I'm related to by Office Space. She's a very talented local singer, songwriter with an amazing voice. We share an office. So Dana's familiar with the show. Being that I'm a loyal little and all, I force her to listen whenever we're working together. She's not a sports fan, but she finds the plot mildly amusing. I wanted to say she thinks the show stinks, but she thinks that's rude, despite my urging that Mr. Tony would love it. This is the first of two songs today. It's called no Rules plays in Georgetown's own Dan Graziano. I made a list of questions yesterday, and I was going to start in chronological order. I was going to start with the Denver game until the most amazing pass. I, I don't know. Given the stakes, given everything around it, I don't know. I don't want to say it's the most, although I just said it was the most. But I haven't seen anything more impactful or more surprising. He's alone in the end. So it's. When you saw that, what did you think? That Caleb Williams had made that pass?

[Dan Graziano]

Impossible. I mean, just impossible. Like, I was actually doing a live radio interview at the time about the Patriots Broncos game that I had covered, Right. And I was watching. They called with, like two minutes left in Chicago. I was like, oh, you guys, how could you call now? And so I'm on the phone on live radio when it's happening, answering some question about, you know, the Patriots defense. And I Just like, like you guys, you guys gotta stop. We gotta talk about what just happened. It was unbelievable. He's 25 yards behind the line of scrimmage.

[Pat40]

He's cooked.

[Dan Graziano]

It's over. The season, not the play. The season is over. And he throws that ball. And it's just. I mean, what's amazing about Caleb Williams is he throws that ball and it doesn't feel like a prayer. It feels like this is a throw he can make. No one else can, but he can. And so is somebody going to catch it? And sure enough. I mean, it was astounding. It's a shame that they couldn't cap it off with a win. It reminded me of a baseball game I covered years ago. It was Mets, Cardinals in the 06 NLCS and a guy named Andy Chavez went over the wall to make a catch. And the Mets end up losing the game anyway because Mets and, but I think like, like that was one of those moments. Like they have to win the game now and they didn't. But the result is, I mean, God, I cannot wait to watch Caleb Williams next football game, whenever that is.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Now, I know he has a lot of interceptions. No, he's not the most accurate passer in the world.

[Pat40]

He's the least.

[Tony Kornheiser]

He's a winner. He's, he's a total winner. But the other question is if you are the Rams defensive coaches, well, how can comet be, how can he be alone? I mean, there's a guy three feet from him. Where is the defense there?

[Dan Graziano]

Yeah, I mean, you hear defensive players talk about that all the time. Like when, when a quarterback can extend a play at that level, like to continue to cover, to continue to plaster is the challenge. And it doesn't always hold up. We had next gen stats on that throw and it said time to throw 5.86 seconds. I mean like Aaron Rodgers throws three passes in that amount of time, post snap, like it is at 5.8, that's an eternity. So you're asking, you're asking your defense to cover everybody for six whole seconds and something's bound to slip. The miracle is not that someone popped open, it was that is that you have a quarterback that can make that throw. And yet worst completion percentage in the league among qualified quarterbacks this year. They have to improve that. No question about it. But my goodness, sure, I'll take it. Like I will take that mission, improve that. I have a guy that can make any throw and by the way, a guy whose pulse just drops in the moments when everyone else's goes through the roof.

[Pat40]

Like.

[Dan Graziano]

Like you have an elite competitor. If you can, you know, if you can just iron out the imperfections in his game, I don't see what the ceiling could possibly be there.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I just had a small question. I have this about every coach all the time, you know, because d' Ameco Ryan's, for example, didn't go on fourth down when I thought he might have. Even though it was fourth and 10,000, McVay went on fourth and one at 10 to 10. In a game where it's snowing and if Matthew Stafford is sailing the ball, everybody's sailing the ball. Were you surprised he went on 4th and 1?

[Dan Graziano]

I guess I'm never surprised on 4th and 1 anymore because these guys have the data that supports it.

[Tony Kornheiser]

But it's a field goal and you're ahead at that point. You're ahead.

[Dan Graziano]

Yeah, you're ahead. But then look.

[Pat40]

Then what?

[Dan Graziano]

Like you have to stop the miracle touchdown. Better to have the ball in your hands and end the game that way, if possible. So, yeah, I think that's just become sort of the conventional wisdom on a lot of levels. Again, it's all supported by the data that they all have to base these decisions on in the moment. And they all have people in their ears saying, hey, here's what we're doing. And they say it before third down. If we don't get it, we're going on fourth. So if it's less than, whatever, five yards, three yards, whatever, so. So call your third down play accordingly. And that's kind of the operation.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So let me get to the game that you were at. You were at the Denver game in Denver. Me personally, I was at.

[Dan Graziano]

I was in New England.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Oh, okay.

[Dan Graziano]

New England.

[Tony Kornheiser]

All right, well, then I'm just going to go to Denver because I'm sure you watched it. You have to watch all of them. I thought Denver got lucky with two pass interference calls. I just thought they got lucky. And I thought they got extremely lucky on a play that I thought was a catch and then the ball was wrestled out of somebody's hands and, you know, in the exact same play in the Rams, game went to the Rams and in this game it went to Denver instead of Buffalo. What are your thoughts on what you saw there?

[Dan Graziano]

Well, I've had multiple officiating experts explain to me the difference between those two catches. You know, again, I don't. I mean, the explanations make sense. Basically, there hadn't been a football act committed post possession by Brandon Cook. So the ball is still live once it moves. And that happened in the, in the Rams, Bears situation. So there is a distinction, you know, and again, it's easy to find. There are plenty of people writing about this online that have, you know, that have expertise in the field that exceeds mine. So if someone's interested, it's out there. The pass interference calls were correct. I mean, like, they're. I think the first one was one that if they let it slide, I don't think anybody would have been critical.

[Pat40]

Yeah, but it was.

[Dan Graziano]

You could also call. And the second one I thought was pretty clear. I mean, like, he's grabbing his arm, he's holding it down. So it's unfortunate to see the game decided on penalties. But I also think, like, I mean, you're Sean Payton on that sideline. You've already in your career been, you know, cheated out of a trip to the super bowl by a pass interference call that wasn't made. I think if you're the Broncos and Sean Payton, I don't think you're apologizing for that. I mean, if the interference isn't committed, the ball's probably caught, which is why the penalty is a spot foul. So, yeah, it's unfortunate. It's unsatisfying to see it end that way. But I do think those calls were correct. The one about the catch. And I understand Sean McDermott being upset. And I woke up yesterday morning still thinking, did Brandon Cooks really not catch that ball? There is, I mean, there's legitimate and believable explanation for why it's not ruled a catch according to the way the rule is written. So incredibly unfortunate for Buffalo. But, yeah, I mean, they turned it over four times before that.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Josh Allen, four turnovers.

[Dan Graziano]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Then that's when you say to yourself, he's never going to get to the Super Bowl. He's a snake bit guy and he's a great player. He's a great player.

[Dan Graziano]

Yeah.

[Pat40]

And.

[Dan Graziano]

And he's never had this playoff game before. Like we always. Well, when they lose in the playoffs, it hasn't been his fault. He's been a great playoff performer. And that's true. But obviously Saturday doesn't fall into that. And that's why you saw it devastated Josh Allen after, because he knew he had missed an opportunity.

[Tony Kornheiser]

How is Denver supposed to win two games without its starting quarterback? And by the way, were you like me? You had no idea he broke his ankle because he got right up and he played the next three plays.

[Dan Graziano]

Did the, did the on field post game interview with what, Tracy Wilson or what? Like, I mean, yeah, there was and for Sean personally, like, just knowing coaches and press conference, like, I'm shocked Sean told everybody, as opposed to, like, dragging it out and trying to keep it secret till they were back on the practice field Wednesday. But, yes, shocking. I mean, like, you're watching, first of all, the way the game went and the way the game ended. Second of all, another game has now started, and Seattle's already returned the kick. Open kick for a touchdown. And now Sean Payton just said, what? At his press conference? Like, is this possible?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Dan Graziano]

And, yeah. So, I mean, Tony, I could imagine a plausible scenario in which Sean Payton comes up with some genius game plan this week and gets the kid ready to go, and maybe the Patriots make a couple big mistakes and you steal one at home and go to the super bowl. To your point, two weeks later to win, to beat Seattle or the Rams again, it's hard to imagine. It's a shame. I mean, I know it means a lot to Sean. The chance to become the first coach to win the super bowl with two different teams. That's a big thing for him. And obviously, if he doesn't do it this year, he still can. He's got that program in a good place. But, yeah, they have to feel like something's been taken away from them.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Seattle totally convincing. This is twice in a row in just a period of three weeks. So we don't have to dwell on that. Right. I mean, saddle. You know, unless Sam Darnold ran out.

[Dan Graziano]

Of guys, they were done.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, unless Sam Darnold sees ghosts again, and we haven't seen that yet. This, you know, with this team. So let me get to the game that you were at, because that's really the de facto game for the super bowl now that Bo Nix is out again. Ryan's had fourth and forever. It was fourth and forever, but he punted. What were your thoughts on that?

[Dan Graziano]

You mean late? Like, at the end, the last time they had the ball?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Dan Graziano]

I mean, I couldn't understand why you would put. I mean, I went into the Patriots press conferences and locker room after, because we're covering them again next week. So I'm trying to gather stuff, but I don't know. I didn't. I haven't seen the explanation. D', Ameco, Ryan's offered for punting there. It's giving up on the game at that point, which is disappointing. Tough game for them, obviously. Quarterback throws four interceptions in the first half. Your elite defense can't really do a whole lot to rescue you from that, although they tried in the second half. But, yeah, I didn't. I didn't get that. It's not like it's. I mean, it's not like d' Amigo Ryan's first playoff game. It's a sixth. So it was surprising. What did I think about that? Was the question. That was during a point in the game where I'm transitioning from the press box down to the field level and I'm getting into them, dropping my bag in, like, the media workroom there. I look up like, wait, did they really just punt? Like, that didn't make any sense. Like, how could you punt? Like you're done at that point.

[Tony Kornheiser]

You have to. I mean, so d' Amigo Ryan's must look at Caleb Williams play and say, what did I do? What did I do? Because this. But meanwhile, I thought, and I made all these sorts of notes during the game. I thought New England should have been up by 25 points. And when they weren't, I thought they were going to lose. And when Houston, I believe, kicked field goal the first, you know, the first possession in the second half, I thought they were going to lose because they were terrible on offense. They should have been up by so much. Right.

[Dan Graziano]

And Houston's defense is so stifling and was so good. But yeah, that. The throw, it's the big. The touchdown throw to. To k' Sean Booty. I mean, that was the one that changed it because May, you know, Drake May is in the AFC Championship game and probably going to be in the Super Bowl. In two playoff games, he's taken 10 sacks and fumbled six times. We'd be talking about this if the game had gone the other way. And so they were not without their mistakes. They were not. They obviously were in a tough situation against the Houston defense, but he did make the plays he needed to make to win the game. Like that was the definition of that.

[Pat40]

Yeah.

[Dan Graziano]

Eight turnovers in that game. Five by Houston, three by New England. It was ugly. It was wet. It was sloppy. But. But, yeah, the difference is, of course, that. That May made more plays in a game where I would say neither quarterback can be possibly thrilled about the way they played. Stroud first half was a catastrophe on a level that produced legitimate questions at halftime about are you going to put David Mills in a playoff game?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yes, I was going to ask that because that guy had won some games for you when Stroud was out three of them.

[Pat40]

Yep.

[Dan Graziano]

But Ryan said, no, we're sticking with our guy. Stroud did improve in the second half, but it was too late. And, you know, yeah, that often. Look, they. They couldn't run it. They didn't have their best receiver. Their tight end was a big part of the game plan. I know that from talking to people pregame. He got hurt right away and didn't come back in the game. There are excuses that you could make, but Stroud has to be better even among all those excuses, and he knows that.

[Tony Kornheiser]

And I'll go to the other side. When people talk, Drake May, as an mvp, you cannot isolate one game, particularly a game with bad weather. But the combination of Josh McDaniels and Drake May succeeded in having, I don't know, 300 third and twelves like they had, you know. Right. They had no chance. They kept calling the same run on the first play and it kept getting nothing.

[Dan Graziano]

Yeah, I mean, Houston's defense is no joke. And Ramandre Stevenson was out of that game for long stretches. He came back in the second half, which was key. But, you know. Yeah, you go into a game like that knowing you're going to be limited on offense and you're just trying to minimize the damage. And obviously when the other team turns it over five times, it changes everything. But yeah, I mean, obviously MVP voting is, you know, done after regular season before, so this can't affect it.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Dan Graziano]

And also, by the way, his main competition had a lousy game too.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Terrible. Stafford, terrible.

[Dan Graziano]

But yeah, I think it's. I think it's interesting. The fumbles are very concerning. He led the league in the regular season and. And again, six of which he's lost a couple so far in the playoffs. So they've got to get that cleaned up. Just like we were talking earlier in this conversation about his draft classmate has to get that completion percentage cleaned up.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So I will get you out of here. I know you got to go on television. I think we both agree that New England is in a position to win against Denver because of what happened to Denver starting quarterback. Who do you like in the other game? These are division rivals, this division, in case people don't know this, this division went 40 and 7 against the rest of the league. Those top three teams 40 and 7.

[Dan Graziano]

Believe is the first division ever with. With three 12 win teams. This is, this is the correct. Unfortunately for Chicago fans and all of us who wanted to see Caleb Williams keep playing, this is the correct conclusion to the NFC season. These are the two best teams has been all year. They played two extremely close games against each other. We all remember the second one, the Thursday night game where Seattle picks up the ball in the end zone. Absentminded and gets the two point conversion. So, yeah, this is. If there's a team out there that can derail the Seattle team, it's obviously the one they're playing on Sunday night. So it should be fun. Stafford's got to be better. I mean, that Seattle defense is really scary good. The offense is running the ball better than it was in the first half of the season, which was their main weakness. No one's going to believe Seattle until they see them holding the trophy because of Darnold.

[Tony Kornheiser]

It's the same as Indiana. It's the same as Indiana, sure.

[Dan Graziano]

So you can't be like, it's Darnold, like something's going to go wrong.

[Pat40]

Right?

[Dan Graziano]

Exactly. But so far it hasn't. And if he plays well or if he just avoids mistakes, then that defense knows it can fluster Stafford and limit the Rams. And I guess I would take Seattle, though I don't have to. So I'm gonna reserve the right to change my mind.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Thanks so much for being on go do tv. Appreciate it.

[Dan Graziano]

My pleasure, Tony.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Thanks as always for having me and Graziano. Boys and girls, Georgetown zone. We will come back with Pat 40. We will talk about Indiana against Miami tonight. I'm Tony Kornheiser. Taxact knows filing taxes can be confusing. So we have live experts on hand who can help answer any questions you may have. Questions like can I claim my SUV is my home office? If I answer work emails in my car? If I adopted 12 dogs this year.

[Dan Graziano]

Can I list them as dependents and.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Am I doing this right or am I doing this very, very wrong?

[Dan Graziano]

Our experts have the answers to those.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Questions and many others. Tax act. Let's get them over with.

[Dan Graziano]

You're listening to the Tony Kornheiser show.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Once again. This is Dana Denise. This is a song called to say Goodbye. Beautiful soft songs that she plays. Yeah, it's very lovely. Great voice, Michael. If people like Dana Denise want to send in their independent music to be played on the show, how do they go about it?

[Liz]

Send us your music by emailing it to jinglesonycornizershow.com this song again is called to say Goodbye.

[Tony Kornheiser]

And Dana Denise plays in PAT40, who was in Miami for the game tonight. I mean, you know, just a sheer stroke of luck that Miami would be in the game and that they would play in this particular stadium all the time. But I would ask this to begin with. I mean, they're the last team in. How surprised are you that Miami's in the championship game?

[Pat40]

Pretty surprised, quite frankly. You Know, I wasn't surprised they beat Texas A and M. I was shocked when they beat Ohio State and then when Mississippi took out Georgia. Okay, now the path is there. But all things considered. Yeah. Going to the last day, most people thought Miami was out and Notre Dame was in.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Pat40]

And then, you know, it worked out the opposite way, which I think it should have because they beat Notre Dame head to head. But for it to work out, there is. There is a lot of kismet involved in this championship game, Tony, between Miami barely getting in and making the run to mount play at home for the title and Fernando Mendoza leaving Miami, where he grew up as a nobody, and coming home as the face of the sport.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Are you. If I had asked you this question in July, would you have been more surprised that Indiana made the championship game or that Miami had made the championship game?

[Pat40]

Oh, boy. You know, frankly, Miami, I will say, I will give Sports Illustrated a little bit of credit here. We ranked Miami number 10 coming in. I'm sorry. We ranked Indiana number 10 coming into the season, which was higher than anybody else did. When they got Mendoza, I thought they had a definite chance to be better than last year. I had seen him play at Cal and thought he was really good. They had so many other pieces coming back. And frankly, at one point as we were putting together the rankings, we had my Indiana as high as number four. And we were like, well, that's crazy. We can't do that. But then, as it turned out, we underrated them at number four. So I really thought Indiana was going to have a great season. I was pretty sure Miami would have a great season. But I'm a little more surprised that Miami's here.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I will say. And I was very, very critical of the committee. I was one of those people who thought Notre Dame should be in, I understand, head to head, but the head to head was in August and there were like 80 games played after that. And so I thought Notre Dame should get in over Miami. But the committee actually looks smart. I never thought I'd say that.

[Pat40]

Yeah, it's true. They, you know, I mean, they took an absolute beating throughout the season. A lot of it deserved because they, you know, had the nonsensical show that where they contradict themselves on a weekly basis. And so, you know, they set themselves up to be mocked every Tuesday night. But once the bracket came out and we started playing, it's like, oh, okay.

[Dan Graziano]

They got it right.

[Pat40]

Congratulations, committee.

[Tony Kornheiser]

They did. They did. What do you think took Kurt Signetti so long to become a head coach? At a big place. I mean, let for example the University of Virginia and Virginia Tech, both of which knew him from James Madison, had multiple coaching changes. They never went to him. What took him so long?

[Pat40]

Yeah, you know, I mean, it's a profound failure by the college football industry who have not hired him sooner. Part of it is purely name brand. You're a James Madison. How good can that be? Having worked at lower levels before that at Elon and Indiana University, Pennsylvania. But the other thing, some people have talked about this here, his personality is such that now, I mean, it's like it's become kind of its own running joke. But for athletic directors who interviewed him, I think some of them thought, how am I going to sell this, this extreme, dead serious personality to our fan base? You know, how's this guy going to sell tickets? Well, then he went to Indiana and obviously just turned into a showman, a, a Barnum and Bailey Barker when he got there and it worked. So, you know, I just think there was a really bad mis evaluation of him and who he is and what he does so well by a lot of people.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Indiana has is something like +374 in point differential this year. It is. The number is so high that actually when you see it, you don't believe it and you assume it must be a misprint. They have destroyed people. I mean, they didn't destroy Penn State, but they won and they have destroyed just about everybody else. And as that would. Would that as background and knowing Miami and what a program Miami has been over X amount of years. Who do you think is going to win tonight?

[Pat40]

I think Indiana. I'll be quite surprised if Indiana loses and frankly quite dismayed as a fan of fun stories to write. Yeah, I was telling somebody that this would be like Smarty Jones losing the Belmont if Indiana loses. This like it has been such a. A fairy tale ride and it just, it needs to finish the right way. And they're so close and they have been so good. As you mentioned, they kill people. I don't think they're going to kill Miami. I think it's going to be competitive game. I think Indiana win by like 10 points. This is not going to look like Indiana Oregon or Indiana Alabama, I don't think. But I still expect the Hoosiers to win. I think they're just a complete team. We'll go ahead and find a weakness for me. We'll see if Miami has discovered one that they can exploit.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, I can't stress this enough as a former sports writer, the right Story is Indiana winning because it's, it will be looked back upon if they win as one of the greatest seasons of all time. Because Indiana has been so bad for so long. Right. There's nobody sitting in that press box, nobody who thinks Miami winning is the better story, right?

[Pat40]

Absolutely not. Unless you write for the Miami Herald.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Right.

[Pat40]

You know, that's it. Everybody else wants to see this thing finish up and come full circle and have, you know, this. You mentioned the coach who didn't get a big time job Till he was 62, the quarterback who nobody wanted to recruit and looked like he was going to go to Yale, the number of transfers who played at James Madison. I mean, it's preposterous. And it's Indiana. Like if you put all those elements combined at Auburn, it would still be a heck of a story. But Auburn's been good, Indiana's never been good, you know, and so if they, if Indiana becomes the first team to go 16 and oh since the 1800s, I mean, it's preposterous.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, I wanted to mention this, I mentioned it early in the show. The NFL, the bi teams went 2, 0 in two years. The bye teams in college have gone 1 and 7. That has to be changed. You cannot let people sit out for 30 days. Right. They have to do something.

[Pat40]

I maybe if they, they probably should, they probably will. The best thing they could do is have the by teams have a home game and play the quarterfinals at home and then you're going to get the advantage of rest, preparation and a home field crowd. Right, I see. I think that stat is a little bit misleading because if you go back to the first year, 20, 24, I mean, Boise State shouldn't have gotten the buy and been in that position. Arizona State shouldn't have gotten the buy and been in that position. So those weren't upsets. And even this year there were, you know, some of the buy teams were underdogs. So, you know, I don't look at that and say it's after two years. I just, I think we need a little more evidence that the buy is absolutely a disadvantage.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I wanted to get to one other fairly large issue here, which you will know about. The quarterback at Ole Miss is suing to come back to college. At some point someone is going to try to play in college till they're 45 years old, like Philip Rivers. It's just. What is going on here? What, what is the rule? What do you expect to happen? How many years? And I understand it, it's money. There's Money. But how many years can you reasonably expect to play in college?

[Pat40]

See, this is one where I think, as often happens in college sports, Tony, people want to push the envelope until it breaks. And eventually you just turn people off and tick people off. Because to your point, nobody wants to see a bunch of full grown 30 year old adults out there playing football. It's a. College is a window of time in your life. I mean, there's some people, I guess, that go to college forever. But to play college athletics should be a finite window. And then like everyone else, you leave and go get a job. And if that, if you're good enough to get a job in the NFL, great. And if you're not, there's a lot of other lines of work out there. So. And I don't think there's a lot of sympathy for Trinidad Chambliss. He's, you know, trying to get an injury waiver for an injury that was not very well documented. The problem with the ncaa, they have too many waivers for too many things. And in these cases, the eligibility cases, they're scared to death that the courts are going to rule and say this is restraint of trade. These guys are actually employees, you need to treat them as employees. And then all of a sudden we're in that employee employer relationship which they have tried to strenuously to avoid because they think it'll bankrupt everybody.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Didn't I read last week that they're going in nine games for a medical Red shirt. You're allowed to play nine games and red shirt.

[Pat40]

That is a proposal by the coaches. We'll see if that where that goes with the suits that make the rules. But that's another way where people are trying to avoid, you know, people saying, I, you know, I didn't get to play enough, I need another year.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Well, the only reason they're saying it now is for money because they get paid a lot of money to stay, to stay in college. It leads me to, I think, the question that everybody has, does the NCA really exist? Is there a body out there that actually makes rules that people adhere to?

[Pat40]

There is a body out there that actually makes rules. Whether people adhere to them is the question.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Right.

[Pat40]

You know, the rules have been trampled to the point where it's very difficult to know whether any, what's enforceable and what isn't and anything that basically comes down to money and getting paid and, you know, what the parameters of that, how long you can get paid, how many schools you can go to. The NCAA has been backed into a corner with a bayonet in its chest and said, try us by the courts, which we will shoot you down again.

[Tony Kornheiser]

This is what it feels like. It feels like there are. The NCAA, which was abusive to players for 10,000 years, now has absolutely no power at all. I mean, if you asked me who's the most powerful person in college football, I'd probably tell you it was, you know, the chancellor of Alabama or something like that. You know, just because it doesn't seem like anyone is really paying attention to the ncaa. It doesn't seem that way. Right. Yeah.

[Pat40]

It's. The most powerful person in college athletics is Greg Sankey at the sec.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Pat40]

You know that. That's. Those are the people that have the most power, and they can't all agree on things. They can't get it right either. So, you know, we have a terrible power vacuum in college sports. And you know what happened? Nature abhors a vacuum, so everybody is rushing in to try to capitalize for their own benefit, and nobody's thinking about what's best for the whole enterprise.

[Tony Kornheiser]

If Trinidad Chambers gets a sixth year, he'll get a seventh and an eighth. He will just. You'd keep playing. I think Carson Beck's 40 years old. I think he might be. I think. I think they're close. All right, plug your podcast for us.

[Pat40]

Happy to do so. Others receiving votes on Sports Illustrated, si.com you can get it. You know, YouTube, Apple, etc. We will have a podcast Tuesday wrapping up the national championship.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Sure. Enjoy the game tonight. Thanks, Pat.

[Pat40]

You bet, Tony. Thank you, Pat.

[Tony Kornheiser]

40 boys and girls, we will take a break, come back with email and jingle. I am Tony Kornheiser.

[Dan Graziano]

The world moves fast.

[Tony Kornheiser]

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[Dan Graziano]

Pitching products, drafting reports, analyzing data.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Microsoft 365 copilot is your AI assistant for. For work built into Word, Excel, PowerPoint.

[Dan Graziano]

And other Microsoft 365 apps you use.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Helping you quickly write, analyze, create, and summarize so you can cut through clutter and clear a path to your best work.

[Dan Graziano]

Learn [e-mail] M365 copilot this is the Tony Korneiser show.

[Dana Denise]

Here comes Stoney's man Mel back gonna read some faxes and your notes. Here comes Tony's mail back. Gonna read some for all you folks. Gonna read some for all of your.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Tom Masser backed up by Dan Byrne. It's just so. Just wonderful beyond words. You want to do the Bethesda bagel ad, please?

[Jack]

Bagel sandwiches today. Always excited about that. Just go to BethesdaBaggles.com for the location in the DC area nearest you and.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Pop on in and you'll be thrilled. Before we get to the mailbag, let me just say I am just a poor boy. Though my story's seldom told, I have squandered my resistance for a pocket full of mumbles such a promises all lies and jests till the man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest. The brilliant Paul Simon song is called the Boxer. Our thanks to our guests today, dan Graziano and Pat40. Thanks as well to today's sponsors. Remember, you can listen to us on Apple podcasts Spotify and Odyssey. Get show through Apple. Please leave us a review so now we have advice here from a letter carrier from Robert Tips in Tullahoma, Tennessee. It would be remiss of me if I did not acknowledge how much I appreciate your podcast. With a 30 mile 38 mile commute each day for years I've enjoyed listening to your thoughts and discussions as well as the occasional guests you welcome. After listening to your episode Considered concerning your lost check, I felt compelled to offer my insight. As a 30 year USPS employee, letter envelopes make multiple passes on multiple sorting machines which at times can cause the mail piece to be processed incorrectly delayed or unfortunately damaged. When mailing content such as a check or important documents, I recommend mailing them in a larger envelope such as a 10 and a half by 16 utility mailer postage. This envelope with just a check and correspondence and close would only be $1.90 and I feel mailing it this way would lessen the chances of the mail piece not being delivered. Hope this information helps. Yeah, I mean but I don't do that on regular checks. I do that on tax checks and stuff I think is really important. I mean I got 8 or 910 bills a month and I don't usually.

[Liz]

Do that on the other side. Are you having issues with letters arriving at your house damage because every piece of, you know, mail that we get has been tampered with. Yeah, just cut at the corners to see if there is a check.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Is that right? I haven't noticed inside. Well, I haven't noticed that Kevin Burke, who is the founder of Big Nose Kate Whiskey. Big fan. We read this on the air. Yes, on Wednesday's pod. I was thrilled to hear that Mr. Tony's enjoying big nosed Kate Western Whiskey during these cold night. I'm dying to know more about the small sips consumption process mentioned if willing to share sifts from the bottle. No, no regular glass just very, very small an ounce, honestly, from the bottle. You asked what exactly defines a Western whiskey? Is it an actual category or style? A few answers for you Western whiskey is not a legal category like Scotch, Bourbon or American Single Malt. It is a regional craft descriptor that evokes the regions where the whiskey is created and a unique taste or style similar to N New England ipa. For example. Big Nose Kate Western Whiskey is legally defined as an American blended whiskey. The final product is a blend of rye and American single malt, a first of its kind blend. Kate is not a bourbon and has no corn in the blend. Since you both mentioned the whiskey's namesake as being Doc Holliday's girlfriend, I offer up this additional fun nugget for my fellow Littles. Big Nose Kate got her nickname not because of the size of her sniffer, but because she was known to stick her nose in everyone's business. I welcome any Littles who find themselves in Santa Fe to come visit or drop me an email if you want to use the code. Thanks for the kind words.

[Jack]

That's great.

[Tony Kornheiser]

From Sean Sean Bach, it's an absolute pleasure. This is now he is from Jenny's Ice Cream.

[Jack]

Oh yes, right.

[Tony Kornheiser]

It's our absolute pleasure. I've been a fan since Tony was on ESPN Radio way back when he took callers and banned them for asking.

[Liz]

How he banned from the Tony Cornice Show.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I was hooked from there. And I was so happy when you launched the podcast. The show in its different formats seriously have been great source of entertainment on a weekly basis. When I heard we were launching a new coffee flavor, I made it my mission to get over to all of you. Yeah, so we'll take we're happy to.

[Liz]

Get Liz will respond to this email from Mark.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, he offers more ice cream even from Mark DeFlorio in Snoqualmie, Washington.

[Jack]

Not familiar with.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I hope I pronounce it right. While I have not met an astronaut firsthand, a friend of mine was a mission controller during the Apollo era. He knew all of our famous astronauts, and his stories leave you feeling like you knew them too. His name is Richard Stachersky, and he manned the network console at Mission Control in Houston. I asked him once about the coolest piece of memorabilia he has. He pondered this for a second, then replied, I think it has to be the Medal of Freedom President Nixon gave all of us after successfully getting Apollo 13.

[Jack]

Yeah, that's probably it.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yep. Wow. Everybody smoked back then, so pretty sure his matchbook collection was close. Second that's funny. From Steve Ro in December 1969, I was in the Air Force as a co pilot on a giant C130. We were flying as the backup airplane for the Bob hope tour. About 10 o' clock at night, the show at Udorn Air Base was over. Myself and the load master Ralph Folger went out on the ramp to see if we could shake hands with some the tour. We walked past Bob Hope, Connie Stevens, Johnny Bench and approached Neil Armstrong. We said, sir, can we shake your hand? He said, a friend. Course a great moment for us being in the Air Force. Upon return to the aircraft, we tried to sell handshakes to the rest of the crew for a dollar and there were no takers. To this day I consider it one of the great moments of my life. At 80, Rick Whitmore, my sister in law's cousin, was a space shuttle astronaut. We had a family trip to Houston to see my in laws. They arranged for Sam Gamar. I think that's hope. I pronounced that correctly. Correctly. To take us on a backstory, a backstage tour of the Lyndon B. Johnson Space Center. My then elementary school kids got to sit in the cockpit of a simulator. Sam showed us all the training and work it takes to be an astronaut. Incredibly great to my kids from chaplain Colonel Chuck Seligman in San Antonio, Texas. As the official unofficial Air Force chaplain for the Tony Kornheiser show, I'm reporting in about my astronaut encounter. In early 2024, my higher headquarters called to ask for information on conducting funerals for high level people. When I asked what they had, they told me a general officer in Oklahoma who was also an astronaut had passed away. They needed help. I asked if it was Tom Stafford. They said yes. I told him General Stafford was a friend of our family and I grew up with autographed pictures from him on the dresser that inspired me through my life and my career. And then they asked if I would conduct the service and I quickly said yes. Wow. It's just everybody knows astronauts. Yeah, Steve. The sick of here's my close proximity to astronauts contribution. My two younger sons attended Neil Armstrong Elementary School in Western Virginia, kindergarten through sixth grade and my wife and I vote at Buzz Aldrin elementary in Reston. Finally, I sat right on the couch on July 20, 1969 and watched Neil and Buzz walk on the moon on my own TV set. How much closer can you get? We all did the same thing. Earl Brewer Men's LA Cross Coast Coastal Carolina University I've never met an astronaut and I've never been to Spain. But I Kind of like the Music Boy. Jeannie McManus, just gay. From Jonathan Shapansky in Beltsville, Maryland. Well, I haven't met an astronaut. I've had their ice cream. Let's just say it's no Tillamook.

[Jack]

Oh yeah, the freeze dried ice cream.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Is that an astronaut ice cream?

[Liz]

Every museum trip as a kid.

[Jack]

Yeah, I'm going to the Air and Space Museum. Oh, I gotta get that. And it's just not great.

[Tony Kornheiser]

John Molino, Fredericksburg, Virginia as lieutenant colonel in the army, assigned to Legislative Liaison in the late 80s and early 90s, had the privilege of escorting army leaders to Capitol Hill from many meetings with Senator John Glen. Always struck by his modesty and humility and the respect he showed to his visitors. Even to this kid from Brooklyn who had no business being in the presence of an American hero. By the way, John Molino is a novelist. His latest novel is called Broken. He's the author of six other suspense film novels. Broken. Neil Ervais with great trepidation, I fear a future opening in which Tony reports that he received a bill from Sherman Oil for an amount greater than his prepaid charge. When he calls his new friend at the business office, he's informed that they never received his check for the prepayment. And now it is too far into the season to implement the modified payment plan. Of course, in as much as Mr. Kornheiser has been such a loyal customer, they will waive the late fee for the monthly payment he has missed if he will make that payment online. They got the checks? They did. They got them, yeah. Rob Lowe. But not that Rob Lowe. Orange County, California for someone who regularly denounces 21st century technology when paying bills, you certainly have an inordinate amount of issues paying via check. It's almost as if the world is trying to make your life easier and you're fighting them tooth and nail. I say keep up the good fight. If nothing else, it provides littles with weekly entertainment. By the way, I love Chuck Todd's reasoning for the Indiana Miami spread being too high. If the Indiana game had not been a blowout, and if Miami game had been a blowout, then the spread would be much lower. That's right, Chuck. And if my grandmother had wheels, she would be a bicycle. Wayne Chandler Dear Tony, I'm penning this from the Waffle House here in Jacksonville Beach. I thoroughly enjoy listening to your rants about your struggles with technology. It makes me feel so much better about myself. I feel compelled to relate my dealings with a recent issue that BeFell me. For 25 years we've had a washing machine that was as dependable as the sunrise. However, the person I'm related to by marriage was unhappy with its appearance. It was scarred from all the years and was indeed an eyesore. It was particularly embarrassing when we held dinner parties in the laundry room. That's funny. Enter the brand new Maytag Smart Washer. With a handy dandy app on your phone, you now have the the capability to start your washer remotely. The problem is, I did not graduate from Caltech. Trying to sync the machine with my phone almost broke me. I quit when the aforementioned partner pointed out that I'm not a regular participant in the laundry process. Anyway, chastened, I decided to seek the comfort of my local pub. Imagine my surprise when turning on my Subaru, a message flashed that my Forester was successfully synced to my Maytag. How the hell did that happen when I turned left? Does that start the rinse cycle? Scary thoughts. Anyway, keep the rants coming from Wayne Chandler. He wants to be the Luddite of the Tony Kornheiser show. We got one. Yes, from Steve Matthews in Rockville, Maryland. I used to watch Bowling for Dollars growing up in Los Angeles, but only because our local version was hosted by Chick Hearn, longtime radio voice of the Lakers. And my two cents on the importance of using the metric system of measurements. 1,000 whales equals one orca. Okay, that's a new From Adam Blaney in Athens, Ohio. I ate a cara cara orange for breakfast today. Please tell Kip. And from Alan of Norwegian Soft. Oh hey there hot bagel. Can you do a brother a solid? This is Alan from nsk and I've now heard the Japanese middle school guitar group play their version of the jingle twice. It's become obvious to me that if I can convince one of these kids to join NSK to take Glenn's place would be a huge upgrade for the with this in mind, if you want to share the email address for the Japanese middle school with me, that would be fabulous. Glenn has been a total chump the last few weeks and we're mixing our new album and his guitar playing remains staggeringly subpar. So nsk Norwegian Soft Kitten would be much better off with a 13 year old Japanese kid as our guitars instead of glad. Keep rocking it brother. If you're out on your bike tight. Everyone, as always, do wear white. Excuse me, can I help you?

[Dan Graziano]

Well, I'm here to pick up my date. Could you ring Vaughn Lebowitz for me?

[Dana Denise]

I didn't know there could Be so many rooms to be loved. I know you've given her everything you have. And it's still not enough. When you reach out she won't hold your head, she will hold you down. She will watch you sink like a stone Then turn around and let you drown. Is it love that you need? Do you love Think you could love me? Cuz I know I could love you Cuz I ain't got no room. I got, I ain't got no room. Let you do whatever you want and say what's on your mind. You can come and go as you please Just as long as you are mine. Ra. She told you you had failed her in every way they set you free. Could you forget all the things you've become? And be who you're meant to be? That's good enough for me. So leave on today day. Promise me you'll stay. You know that I, you know I will love you cuz I ain't got no room. I got no room I got no, I got no. Anymore. I spend most of my days wondering am I good enough for you? My man often told I've been too much too quickly. And I know that you agree not by your words but by your hands. They don't reach for me like they used to work. We spend the first few hours of our days laid up in my bed. Oh, Do you ever stop to wonder what the hell it is you're holding out to? The I love you snare on your resentment too. I'm not asking you to lie to me. I'm asking you to tell the truth. Cause the anticipation always leaves a bruise. I pray you prove me. Same old dancing song. I wish we had more time. I won't keep you. But you're gonna have to be.

[Pat40]

The.

[Dana Denise]

One who says goodbye. Sa. The part where you. Goodbye.