“He is what he is”

Summary

Podcast Summary: "He is what he is" – The Tony Kornheiser Show

Episode Information:

• Title: He is what he is
• Release Date: June 16, 2025
• Host: Tony Kornheiser
• Guests: Michael Wilbon, Steve Sands, Intern Chris

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1. Introduction to Today's Topics

Tony Kornheiser opens the episode by outlining the key subjects to be discussed:

• U.S. Open Golf Tournament
• Rafael Devers Trade in Baseball
• Shohei Ohtani’s Return to the Mound
• NHL and NBA Playoffs
• J.J. Spawn’s Victory at Oakmont

Notable Quote:

Tony Kornheiser [00:00]: "On today's show, we'll talk to Wilbon about the U.S. open, the Devers trade, Shohei Ohtani's return to the mound, and also about where things stand in the NHL and NBA playoffs."

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2. U.S. Open Golf Tournament

The discussion delves deep into the U.S. Open held at Oakmont, highlighting the dramatic finish.

J.J. Spawn’s Victory:

• Spawn began the tournament poorly, bogeying five of the first six holes.
• Demonstrated remarkable resilience by shooting 32 on the back nine, culminating in two crucial birdies on the 17th and 18th holes under challenging rainy conditions.

Course Conditions and Fairness:

• Tony and Michael express concerns over the handling of rain delays and water hazards, particularly criticizing the ruling on Sam Burns, which they felt unfairly eliminated him from contention.

Notable Quotes:

Tony Kornheiser [03:20]: "JJ Spawn bogayed the first three holes. He has terrible luck. He's done."

Michael Wilbon [38:01]: "I believe it was real, real close to the edges, very USGA. I would put it on the unfair side more than the fair side."

Michael’s Insights:

• Emphasizes the USGA’s strict course setup at Oakmont, which often favors certain play styles and can lead to unexpected outcomes.
• Highlights Spawn’s exceptional performance and adaptability to the challenging conditions.

Conclusion on the Tournament:

• Despite initial setbacks, J.J. Spawn's perseverance led him to a well-deserved victory, although the handling of certain rules remains a point of contention.

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3. Rafael Devers Trade in Baseball

Tony and Steve discuss the significant trade of Rafael Devers from the Boston Red Sox to the San Francisco Giants.

Implications of the Trade:

• Boston Red Sox:

  • Decision to trade Devers stems from internal team dynamics and performance considerations.
  • A strategic move to restructure the team by trading a key player.

• San Francisco Giants:

  • Acquisition aims to bolster the Giants’ lineup with Devers’ exceptional hitting capabilities.
  • Devers is expected to rejuvenate the Giants' offensive performance, marking the first time they secure a 40-home-run hitter in over two decades.

Notable Quotes:

Tony Kornheiser [06:25]: "The Red Sox sat down and said, we can't stand this guy anymore."

Steve Sands [27:10]: "Devers is the best hitter the Giants will have put in that lineup since Barry."

Steve’s Perspective:

• Views the trade as a strategic enhancement for the Giants, especially in a highly competitive division.
• Believes Devers’ addition will significantly impact the Giants’ performance in the upcoming season.

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4. Shohei Ohtani’s Return to the Mound

The conversation shifts to Shohei Ohtani's anticipated pitching appearance for the Dodgers against the Padres, despite earlier remarks from Manager Dave Roberts about the slim chances of him pitching.

Expectations and Speculations:

• Tony expresses skepticism about Ohtani’s performance, anticipating potential injuries or subpar outings.
• Steve considers the possibility of Ohtani delivering an outstanding performance, reflecting on his unique dual-role capabilities.

Notable Quotes:

Tony Kornheiser [05:45]: "I would be very surprised if he had a clean inning."

Steve Sands [25:25]: "If the Dodgers are letting him do this, I guess they expect it to be great."

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5. NHL Playoffs: Florida vs. Edmonton Series

Tony and Steve analyze the intense NHL playoff series between Florida and Edmonton, focusing on key players like Brad Marchand.

Series Highlights:

• Edmonton Oilers:

  • Currently leading the series 2-1.
  • Described as resilient despite challenging performances.

• Florida Panthers:

  • Host the next game in Edmonton.
  • Brad Marchand highlighted as an "arch villain" with a strong narrative leading to potential Hall of Fame candidacy.

Notable Quotes:

Steve Sands [29:12]: "It's just wildly entertaining. Completely unpredictable."

Michael Wilbon [30:05]: "They got it on Father's day, in an incredibly dramatic ending, they got exactly what they wanted."

Steve’s Take:

• Praises the series for its unpredictability and high entertainment value.
• Anticipates a thrilling conclusion, potentially extending to seven games.

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6. NBA Playoffs and Emerging Stars

The discussion transitions to the NBA playoffs, emphasizing the rise of new talents overshadowed by established stars like Steph Curry and LeBron James.

Emerging Players:

• Shay Gilgamesh Alexander and Tyrese Halliburton:
  • Highlighted for their consistent performances throughout the season.
  • Garnering praise for their leadership and on-court skills.

Concerns and Observations:

• The marketing focus on veteran stars might be stifling the recognition of newer, impactful players.
• Tony and Steve express a desire for more attention on these rising stars who contribute significantly to their teams.

Notable Quotes:

Steve Sands [32:00]: "If you love great basketball, I don't need to wait for game six or seven. They've been great already."

Tony Kornheiser [35:05]: "How do you think the Oklahoma City team fares in these playoffs? I think Oklahoma City wins."

Steve’s Perspective:

• Advocates for greater appreciation of emerging talents within the NBA.
• Believes young players are essential for the league's future and fan engagement.

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7. Special Segment: Intern Chris on Crutches

A lighter segment features Intern Chris discussing his recent injury and his commitment to performing stand-up comedy despite being on crutches.

Highlights:

• Chris recounts slipping at a Mountjoy concert, resulting in an ankle injury.
• Despite the setback, he performed his show using a stool, demonstrating resilience and dedication.

Notable Quotes:

Intern Chris [03:08]: "What happened to you Friday night? I was at a Mountjoy concert... slipped on a hill."

Tony Kornheiser [03:48]: "This could be a new bit."

Tony’s Support:

• Shows concern for Chris’s well-being while commending his perseverance.
• Engages humorously about the potential for Chris’s injury to become comedic material.

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8. Closing Remarks and Musical Interlude

Tony wraps up the discussion, reaffirming J.J. Spawn’s deserving victory at the U.S. Open while acknowledging the controversies surrounding the tournament’s management.

Final Thoughts:

• Emphasizes the importance of fair play and the integrity of the game.
• Celebrates Spawn’s achievement despite the challenging conditions and rules interpretations.

Notable Quote:

Tony Kornheiser [41:13]: "You don’t want a tournament to be lost, you want it to be won. And J.J. Spawn won the tournament. Right? There’s no question he won the tournament."

Musical Highlight:

• The episode features original song interludes by Dan Byrne, adding a creative and entertaining layer to the show’s conclusion.

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Conclusion

In this episode, Tony Kornheiser, alongside guests Michael Wilbon, Steve Sands, and Intern Chris, provides a comprehensive and engaging analysis of major sports events, blending insightful commentary with personal anecdotes and humor. From J.J. Spawn’s remarkable U.S. Open victory to significant developments in baseball trades and thrilling playoff series in hockey and basketball, the show offers listeners a well-rounded and entertaining perspective on the sports landscape of June 2025.

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Note: This summary is based on the provided transcript and aims to encapsulate the essence of the discussed topics, including key quotes and timestamps for reference.

Transcript

[Tony Kornheiser]

Hey, it's Tony. On today's show, we'll talk to Wilbon about the U.S. open, the Devers trade, Shohei Ohtani's return to the mound, and also about where things stand in the NHL and NBA playoffs. And we'll talk some more about JJ Spawn winning at Oakmont with our pal Steve Sands. But first, commerce.

[Michael Wilbon]

You're listening to the Tony Kornheiser Show.

[Tony Kornheiser]

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[Steve Sands]

The new McCrispy Strip is here. Dip approved by Ketchup Tangy barbecue Honey mustard.

[Michael Wilbon]

Honey mustard, Sprite, McFlurry Big Mac sauce, Double dipped in buffalo and ranch.

[Tony Kornheiser]

More ranch and creamy chili. McCrispy strip dip now at McDonald's.

[Michael Wilbon]

Previously on the Tony Kornheiser Show.

[Tony Kornheiser]

My friend and I did that. We drove to California when I was in college. And the motivation to drive to California was always Brian Wilson was always those songs that he wrote. You know, this is not a Brian Wilson song, but the greatest tribute to Brian Wilson ever is Randy Newman who said crank up the Beach Boys, baby. Don't let the music ever stop. He didn't say crank up the Beatles. He's writing about L. A. But that's how a lot of people of a certain age, and I am of that certain age, felt.

[Chris]

The Tony Kornheiser show is on now.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So there's a lot of things to talk about. The US Open, the Rafael Devers trade shohei Ohtani is going to pitch tonight, which Dave Roberts, the manager of the Dodgers, said last week was not going to happen at all before the All Star Game. Said no chance. North of zero.

[Intern Chris]

North of zero, yeah.

[Chris]

Why start this series?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Pitching time. I don't know.

[Chris]

The gnats, right after.

[Tony Kornheiser]

You know, we talk about all of these things. We talk about the gnats and how terrible they are. But our intern Chris comes in today on crutches. I'm concerned about this because he performed stand up on Sunday. Did they attack you? Did people try to break your ankle because you weren't funny at all and they screamed at you and broke your ankle?

[Unknown Speaker]

What happened to you Friday night? I was at a Mountjoy concert at Merriweather, and it was raining, and I just slipped on a hill, and my ankle turned in a way that I was immediately like, that's not how that's supposed to go.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Right.

[Unknown Speaker]

And then I had the show the next night. I was like, I. People paid $15. And to me, at this point in my life, $15 is a lot of money.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Right.

[Unknown Speaker]

So I was like, I'm still gonna go on.

[Tony Kornheiser]

You did the show on crutches?

[Unknown Speaker]

I pulled up a stool.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Did people.

[Chris]

More of a sit down comic.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Oh, yeah. Did. Yeah. Sit down.

[Unknown Speaker]

I tried so hard to stay away from that joke. I was like, it's so easy.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Did people laugh because they felt sorry for you and your condition? And if that's the case, will you have a constant chaos on your leg?

[Intern Chris]

This could be a new bit.

[Unknown Speaker]

I was gonna say a sympathy laugh was definitely a little bit in the. In the question. But, I mean, it was. It was a solid set. It was a lot of fun.

[Tony Kornheiser]

And. And your mobility is hampered by what percentage?

[Unknown Speaker]

I would say a solid 50%. There were a lot of stairs at the venue, so that was. I had some people watching me. I was like, please look away. This is looking rough.

[Tony Kornheiser]

You can. Of course, if no one laughs, you can hit someone with a crutch. That's always funny. That's always funny.

[Unknown Speaker]

I wish I thought of that.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, that's a really funny thing. So. And your prognosis is what you're waiting. You're waiting for?

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah, I'm waiting. I'm waiting for tests to come back.

[Tony Kornheiser]

What would take so long on tests with a broken bone? Well, did you go to, like, a volunteer hospital that's staffed by people who are not actual medical doctors to go to a veterinary clinic?

[Unknown Speaker]

Oh, I went to urgent care.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay.

[Unknown Speaker]

I went to urgent care on my father's birthday. And I was like, let's. Let's do this.

[Intern Chris]

Happy birthday, dad.

[Unknown Speaker]

Happy birthday.

[Chris]

What was the wait time?

[Unknown Speaker]

Like an hour?

[Chris]

Pretty good.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah, it was actually surprisingly pretty nice.

[Tony Kornheiser]

You go to urgent care with the kids?

[Chris]

We take them to a pediatrics. Urgent care.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. What's the wait time for you? Oh, we.

[Chris]

We get the appointment. Liz is on that early.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay, that's good. So that's good.

[Intern Chris]

But the only question that really matters, though, is is this going to affect your ability to plant and harvest potatoes?

[Unknown Speaker]

I was going to say, I think we don't.

[Tony Kornheiser]

We don't need any more planting at the moment. So you're good.

[Michael Wilbon]

Yes.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I don't want you to dig in the dirt and hurt your foot in any way.

[Unknown Speaker]

I was gonna say I would do it even with this.

[Chris]

This is the difference of 20 extra years. You'll be fine in a week or two. I jumped off of a fence and my ankle still hurts six months later to the point that I got, like, a balance board off the Internet to try and strengthen the inner part of my ankle and Achilles.

[Intern Chris]

Just learning to live with it now.

[Steve Sands]

Yes.

[Chris]

It's just part of who I am.

[Tony Kornheiser]

All right, let's start with the U.S. open. Well, no, let's not. Let's start with the fact that Shohei Otani will pitch probably one inning tonight against the Padres. Right.

[Chris]

Padres. They have three against the Padres.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Who knows how he's going to do. I would be very surprised if he had a clean inning. Me personally be very surprised. And I would be less surprised if he hurt himself because I don't really think this is the greatest idea in history.

[Chris]

I think the fact that against the Padres, they have. They probably have a higher ceiling than you do. I mean, the choices between those two teams during the regular season over the last couple years seem personal.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yes, there was no question about that. So also, there's. In that same division, San Francisco Giants just acquired Rafael Devers for a couple of pitchers and some other considerations. Look, let's. Let's understand something. The Boston Red Sox sat down and said, we can't stand this guy anymore.

[Steve Sands]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

We cannot tolerate his presence. He is not a member of this team. He is insidious. So we know we're going to trade him out of the division, out of the league, across the country. That's. You know, a trade like this doesn't just happen. Yeah. It checks the boxes that the Red Sox don't want to see him anymore and don't want him to come to Fenway 15 times a year and beat their brains out. They don't want that. No. Trade them out of the division, out of the league, across the country. If they. If there was a franchise in Australia, they'd have traded them there. So that's.

[Chris]

And on the other side, you have a team that's missed out on a lot of big free agents over the last couple of years.

[Tony Kornheiser]

The Giants.

[Chris]

So this Giants are proven a point getting.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Giants are good team.

[Chris]

Deadline good team.

[Intern Chris]

And is.

[Tony Kornheiser]

He makes them better. He's a great hitter.

[Intern Chris]

He is a tremendous.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Maybe he'll be a great teammate there because he was a great teammate in Boston before this whole Bregman thing.

[Intern Chris]

Yeah, I mean, he.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. No, you follow the Sox.

[Intern Chris]

I mean, he never was the leader that they sort of wanted him to be. When they said, we're going to make you the highest paid, you're the guy.

[Tony Kornheiser]

When it's unfair. It's unfair to just expect leadership out of somebody.

[Intern Chris]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Unfair. He was. Expect production.

[Intern Chris]

He was better when he was just one of the younger guys. Yeah, but you can't. I mean, it wasn't so much that he said, hey, I'm still the third baseman. It was when the first baseman got hurt, he wouldn't go.

[Tony Kornheiser]

He wouldn't play.

[Intern Chris]

And he said no. And you guys are idiots for bringing this up. You should do your job. That was when I think John Henry flew out and met with him. At that point, you're like, this was.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, this. This comes as a surprise to no one. No one. No. That he's traded. Now, maybe the landing spot is a surprise to some, but not to me.

[Intern Chris]

They actually face him this week because the Red Sox are in A West Coast SW. All right.

[Tony Kornheiser]

U.S. open. The U.S. open was won in a fashion that is just a complete. Wow. JJ spawn bogeys the first three holes. He has terrible luck.

[Chris]

He hits the post 40 on the front.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. 45 over plus five. Bogey. The first three bogeys five of the first six holes. He's done. He's done. What do. What are we even considering him for? Hits a rake, hits the pin. You know, all bad things happen to J.J. spawn. He's done. He shoots 32 on the back. He makes two great plays. One is the drive on 17 where he's on the green. It's drivable par 4. Doesn't mean everybody drives it. Drivable par. He's on the green. He's about 18ft north of the green. Something like that. Any two putts for a birdie. And then on 18, now he's got Robert McIntyre one stroke, one stroke behind him. So you got a par 18. He puts the second shot in a wonderful position, a downhill look. He is extraordinarily fortunate in that Victor Hovland puts it in the same position a foot behind him. Right?

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Victor Hovland's putt. He watches it spawn. Watches the putt. Spawn makes the putt. Spawn's putt goes in. It's 40 foot putt goes in the window.

[Chris]

And this is something that you cannot predict from the, you know, the, the truck as you're watching this. The USJ NBC, they put up that needs two putts to win. And as it's working its way, you go, I'm, you're shouting at your house. He only, he only needs one. He only needs one. It's, it's tracking the entire way.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's right.

[Chris]

And my first thought for that was Chris DeMarco at the 2005 Masters where he's trying to hole a chip shot and ends up being just past Phil's line. Phil needs the birdie coming down and gets it after the playoff with Ernie Ells and Hovland is sitting there and this is a much longer putt. But he needs to try and make something happen to see if he can force a two shot swing because at this point it's raining steadily. So this long shot is. You have everyone holding up their, their phones up, trying to shield it from the rain. You have USJ officials under the umbrellas watching this, just hoping this ends here and is not, is not decided by somebody missing a five footer because they couldn't really get a feel for the club with it again raining pretty heavily at that point.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So JJ Spawn is a very attractive winner. He has not done much, except this year he did this year he's been top five in three different tournaments and forced to play off with Rory at the players.

[Chris]

And this is directly related to what happened in the players where he goes out to this playoff and is overpowered immediately from Rory, who just blisters that drive on the 16th par five. And then he commits to the wrong club on the par three and is okay with it and speaks about how he hit the right shot.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, so you know, he's very attractive. Okay, now let's get to the other side of this, which is, and I will defer to Michael. I believe it was unfair. I believe the entire event was unfair because of what happened yesterday. I believe they should have gone into a rain break much earlier than they did. And people will say, well, Everybody out on the course is under the same conditions. So it's fair. No, it's not. Some people have two holes to play. These guys have the most holes to play. The last two groups have the most holes to play. It was teeming was awful. It was ponding. It was terrible. I thought they waited way too long. I think they came back too early. I think they should have done it again. It was raining again. I don't you get a great ending. So all of what I'm saying isn't going to matter.

[Chris]

No, but they got saved by that. And there was one ruling in particular where Sam Burns.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Sam Burns, he's in water.

[Chris]

Temporary water. He's in water, does not get the ruling. They say we see water present, but it's not necessarily where the ball is. It's more with the stance. They've changed casual water to temporary water to try and simplify the rules of golf. After you see contact and you see the water, that's. There you go. Of course you make a double bogey. And that actually does impact the tournament. This is not.

[Tony Kornheiser]

He hits it to the left. He slams the club down because he knows he got hosed. And then he hits it in the. In the spinach and he can't get.

[Chris]

Yeah, he's not just loses the tournament one afternoon. It's protecting an entire championship. And a championship that has gone qualifying, that goes back to all the local sites. All the regional sites going back weeks and weeks and weeks here. But you'd be the first to say this. This was a TV show to end on Father's Day as we're all gathering around together.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yes.

[Chris]

And they very specifically get 5:40 as the starting time so that they can guarantee a finish on Father's Day, you know, before the sun actually is down. And again they got. By the way, he. He makes that putt. But they come back and his family's.

[Tony Kornheiser]

There and his wife and his two daughters.

[Chris]

Two daughters. Such a great image. And again it the more memorable for the way he finished. And you saw the storms. And they come back and they're trying to say Trico's like what's on the other side of the highway?

[Steve Sands]

Stop it.

[Chris]

It's a continuous 18 hole golf course.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Stop it. Stop it. Come on. It was. It shouldn't have been placed have been finished today. That. That's Michael, you're right. They get the actual ending that they want. I'm coughing from the rain there.

[Intern Chris]

Yes. The effect from Pittsburgh.

[Tony Kornheiser]

They get the actual ending that they want. They get it on Father's day. They get a great number. They get a great number. Will he ever win another major? I don't know. Is he Michael Campbell, who never won and won the US Open at Piners 30 years ago? I don't. I don't know. I don't know. He's pretty good player. He's had a pretty good year. I mean, you could. You could see it. And let's. Let's go over.

[Chris]

If you actually broke his swing down to just the stills that you saw in those tee shots on 17, you'll see a lower body, particularly the seat of his pants. It stays exactly on the line, which makes it a lot easier to produce those tee shots over and over again. So I would not be surprised if you see him do this once more. That doesn't mean you get to Brooks's number, doesn't mean you get to Rory's number. But I could see one or two more majors in there.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Here's what happened to the leaders yesterday. Adam Scott plus nine. Spawn plus two, but plus five on the front. And then the greatest back nine ever, minus three on the back.

[Chris]

The rain delay felt like the Cubs World Series.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Chris]

You know, just. You see what it did to Adam Scott and then what it did to Spawn.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. Sam Burns plus eight, Victor Hovland. I was rooting for Adam Scott. I thought, Victor Hovland win. Victor Hovland plus three. That South African kid, Thurston Lawrence plus six. They got nobody who did well. Rory did well. Roy shot 67, Shoffley shot 69. They were not.

[Chris]

Hey, Rory got his goal.

[Michael Wilbon]

What do you want?

[Chris]

What do you want out of tomorrow? Wait about four and a half hours to get home.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, that's all he wanted to do. Sheffler shot even. I think Rahm shot even.

[Intern Chris]

And there was a chance.

[Chris]

Went under. He was like, 67.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Ron went under. Okay.

[Intern Chris]

At the very end, you're like, wait a minute. Sheffield might actually have. I mean, I know it was a dim chance, but it was just remarkable.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So what you asked for in a.

[Chris]

Golf tournament, Jon ron snuck into T7 with that six.

[Michael Wilbon]

Seven.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay. So what you ask for in a golf tournament is not that someone loses it, but someone wins it. Kid want it, Spawn want it.

[Chris]

And there is these really great reactions from direct competitors. You know, T. Roll Hatton is talking to a reporter, and Bobby Mack is in there having just signed his card. And they both just get these smiles on their face because you're golf fans as well. You see something, do something amazing. You make a 65 and a half foot putt.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. And just wonderful. That's so it's a really good ending. And it obviates the criticism. Does.

[Intern Chris]

Sure.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I mean, I'm not going to. I can be critical all I want. No one's going to listen to that. That's like some madman on the corner because they got a beautiful ending, right? Yeah.

[Chris]

And you just always come back to that response that players have had for years, which is one of the biggest majors in golf, one of the most important American trophy for these players being run by a bunch of amateurs.

[Tony Kornheiser]

They are USGAs are amateurs. By. By definition. Yeah, by definition.

[Intern Chris]

Where is it next to you?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Shinnecock.

[Chris]

Shinnecock. So this is. We're now.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Did you play there? No. Oh, we did. You guys talk about it?

[Chris]

Yeah. No. Now that you have this new rota, we're a couple years in. So Oakmont was always part of the unofficial rota there, once a decade. So you always had these players entering there once or twice during their primes, which protects a great legacy of winners. Now you have places like Wingfoot, Shinnecock, Pebble Beach, Pinehurst, obviously, is this. This home of the usj. So it. It lends itself to getting some winners like this, where you have something like the weather affecting or someone just goes on a tear for a year or two.

[Tony Kornheiser]

But did you shoot one over at Pine at Shinnecock?

[Chris]

Yeah. So I was playing. I was playing the forward tees for about five or six holes and eventually my. The member who was hosting us on the sixth hole, having just two putted for birdie on the par five goes. Why don't you go back a box or two.

[Tony Kornheiser]

And she shot one over. That's very good. The pro there is Jack Dreger. Right.

[Chris]

Was the protot. I think he's retired.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay. All right. He used to be at Columbia and then he went there. It's a pretty good place to go shit and talk. We'll take a break. Michael Wilbon will join us. I'm Tony Kornheiser.

[Michael Wilbon]

You're listening to the Tony Kornheiser show.

[Tony Kornheiser]

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[Intern Chris]

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[Tony Kornheiser]

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[Steve Sands]

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[Tony Kornheiser]

Stop by your nearest Lowe's store and check out the full line of Craftsman tools today, valid through 618, while supplies last selection varies by location.

[Michael Wilbon]

This is the Tony Kornheiser Show. Tony Kornizer Show.

[Dan Byrne]

Sinner and Alcaraz Alcaraz and Sinner Shame Errand to be a loser and a winner for a fortnight, they floated on Maclay of Roland Garrus. Sinner was defeated. Alcaraz toasted Paris. Sinner and Alcaraz. Alcaraz, Sinner. By the end, Sinner was frowning. Alcaraz the Grinner. Three match points, thought Janik, his poor brain a spinner. Alcaraz held the trophy and said, what's for dinner? Alcaraz and Sinner. Sinner and Alcaraz. Yannick took the bus. Carlos enjoyed Paris and jazz. Alcaraz and Sinner. Sinner and Alvarez. Alcaraz now has five majors, two more than Sinner has. And though I'm not an expert, I might be a simpleton. I'm guessing they might do pretty well at Wimbledon.

[Tony Kornheiser]

The brilliant Dan Byrne, who writes on the road but pulled off at a truck stop to record this in My van. How you'd like to have that kind of genius. Just brilliant, fabulous plays in Michael Wilbon. There's a million things to talk about. There's a Devers trade. Ohtani is going to pitch today against the Padres. Is the U.S. open. There's the hockey, there's the basketball. We're not going to get all of it in. We're not even going to get all of it in. You know, at pti, I can't imagine. But let's start. Let's start with the thing that was the most compelling for you and I yesterday, which was the US Open and JJ Spawn winning with an unbelievable back nine. This guy. The guy bogeyed five of the first six holes in yesterday's round and came back to go three under on the back in the rain. What do you think?

[Steve Sands]

His attitude and demeanor are among the amazing things I have witnessed in golf. Is it more necessary? Probably. Probably. And he caught breaks early. That would just send you to say, you know what, Let me get out of here.

[Tony Kornheiser]

It's not my day.

[Steve Sands]

Let me go celebrate my Father's Day. I got a beautiful wife and two daughters in there, here. And I'm not. I've never won. I'm in my mid-30s. I'm not. It's not my day. I hit a rake, I hit the stick. I hit the flag stick with a shot so accurate, it hits the stick, it doesn't bounce away. Like, you'll sometimes see something about, okay, 12ft. No, no, 60 yards.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Unbelievable.

[Steve Sands]

I mean, so there's that. And I'm just, I'm looking at him going, wow, this is amazing. And I, I know I called you when he had that putt, the 40 foot putt on 12, and you were getting ready to do something reasonable like have Father's Day dinner. And I was just, with the time change, you know, just locked in. It was still very early afternoon out here. I couldn't believe he made the first putt. But then when he did, I just thought, you know what? Let's just hold on. I mean, I'd love to see Adam Scott win, but Adam Scott, speaking of bad breaks, is getting some bad breaks. Let's just. Let's just. Let's just keep watching. And it's one of the amazing things I've ever seen. And that's before you get to the putt to win it.

[Tony Kornheiser]

No, I mean, it was. He won fair and square. He won under terrible conditions. And that. This is. This is. My argument is pretty simple. They should have called that thing a lot earlier than they did the first time. They shouldn't have played it the second time. They hosed Sam Burns. That's water. He's in water.

[Steve Sands]

Yeah, right. Should be given relief. What I don't know is what the other circumstances were like, if they were called out. And I guess they weren't. You see it on television. But, yeah, I thought Sam Byrne should have been given relief and the whole thing. Everybody ran up against impossible things at a US Open venue that was designed to be impossible.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yes. And it won. The US Open venue won. It won.

[Steve Sands]

Except this guy. This guy has two great rounds. His first and his fourth round are as good as they get under that kind of pressure. And his, again, Tony, his demeanor, he was so gracious. I don't know if you staged. I watched.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I watched a lot afterwards. I watched him the first day, Mike, and I said, wow, I love this guy. I love this guy. He has no problem talking about, you know, his own failures and his own successes. And he's very amicable in all of these interviews. He really is.

[Steve Sands]

Yes. And so was Sam Burns.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yes.

[Steve Sands]

Sam Burns was an adult in the room. I would have been throwing clubs at people's heads.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, yeah.

[Steve Sands]

No, Sam Burns wasn't. And I just thought the people involved, you know, just sort of separated themselves. And what you would want to point to your children and say, that's. This is how you do it. Hody. Right here.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. No, it was wonderful. And again, I fully expected that to be finished today. I think any reasonable person did say, well, okay, we're done here. But they got. As we know, Mike, it's a television show. They got a national audience on Father's Day, in an incredibly dramatic ending, they got exactly what they wanted.

[Steve Sands]

Yes. I need to see stars. I don't need that. I want the drama of it. It was dripping in drama.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Steve Sands]

At One point there, five guys tied to the lead at 13 more a stroke off.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Steve Sands]

And so, you know. You know, it really had everything to me you could want if you care about golf at the highest level in the US Open.

[Tony Kornheiser]

All right, let's move to baseball. The Devers trade. Boom. Yeah, A boom trade. And Ohtani, who the manager, Dave Roberts, less than a week ago, said the chances are north of zero that he will pitch. Right.

[Steve Sands]

You see, I think you. I think you did. You didn't. I don't want to say misunderstood. Oh, north of zero means there's a chance. Oh, not south of zero. North.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay, okay.

[Steve Sands]

So he was saying, you know, essentially, yeah, this is probably going to happen. I know when I first heard it, I thought the same thing you did. And I had to read it again. And I went back and got the context of. Okay, I got it.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay. What do you expect from him? What are you expecting?

[Steve Sands]

I guess, look, if the Dodgers are letting him do this, I guess they expect it to be great. I guess they do. I guess they expect him to go out there and be the pitcher that we've seen at his best, which would be amazing. It's been two, it's been two seasons since he pitched. He pitched leftist in 23.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I don't expect a clean inning. I don't, I don't know.

[Steve Sands]

I don't know. I don't know what that if he goes, I want to see. Does he have stuff? Does he look like a pitcher that we now expect Ohtani to be? Is he that guy? Is he Babe freaking Ruth?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Steve Sands]

Is he capable of being 19 and 12? Will the ERA sub three in the major leagues and hit 48 home runs? Is he, Is he, is he that? Because if he is, then he's going to be on the short list of greatest players of all time.

[Tony Kornheiser]

What do you, what do you make of the Devers trade? What do you make of that?

[Steve Sands]

Well, I mean, I know that the Giants, I love that. Look, the Giants are a big market ball club with just a wonderful fan base, wonderful stadium money to burn, and they were the third worst hitting team in baseball. Do something about it. And to me, Tony, I was hoping the Cubs would. I knew they wouldn't because the Cubs aren't the team to pick up the $250 million, which is what the Giants gonna have to pay Devers. But to me, Devers was never going to stay in Boston. After two dramas.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's right.

[Steve Sands]

During spring training, one about third base and then the other about first base. They weren't going to keep him. They just weren't. And so, wow, you know what? The Red Sox got back and all that and the, you know, very minutia of baseball is fine. But the Giants in the middle of a four team race, not three. The Diamondbacks are only, I don't know, four or five games back. So you've got the Dodgers, Diamondbacks, Padres and Giants. And it is a spectacular race for four teams in that division. It's even better than Cubs, Brewers, Cardinals, which is really good. And so I mean, for Devers to go into that lineup. Devers is the best hitter the Giants will have put in that lineup since Barry.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's right. That's Right. They have not had a 40 home run hitter in over 20 years. And every other team in the majors has every other.

[Steve Sands]

Amazing.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So, yeah.

[Steve Sands]

Yes. If you start to watch that immediately with me being out here in Arizona, I'm sort of, you know, since the beginning of that race, I was peeking in when it was, you know, I was in Boston and New York and covering the early rounds of the playoffs at home in D.C. i'd peek in now we'd be locked in. I want to see a bit of those games every night.

[Tony Kornheiser]

All right, we'll move on. Florida went to Edmonton and is now two and one in Edmonton. Of course, Edmonton is one and one in Florida and they go back to Florida for six. You had Brad Marchand as one of the arch villains in America. He's gonna go to the hall of Fame. What do you make of that series?

[Steve Sands]

Well, the hall of Fame needs arch villains, too. I mean, and so does the sport that, you know, needs, you know, to be paid attention to a little more probably than others. I don't know what to make of it. It's just wildly entertaining. Game five. Not game five, Game four. Game four. That series is one of the great playoff games I've ever seen. And while I don't watch the NHL playoffs with the closest of the NBA playoffs, or mainly baseball playoffs or NFL playoff, watch a lot of playoff hockey.

[Michael Wilbon]

I do.

[Steve Sands]

I. I get into it. I go to games. I go to not just Blackhawk games, but if I'm in a city where the NBA and NHL are playing, I've. I have, you know, more than infrequently just said, let me, let me go to see this, or I'll sit up and watch particularly the Western games. And that's, you know, how I got into Edmonton anyway, these, these last few seasons of them in the playoffs and their shortcomings, even though they got closer and closer and closer, I don't know what to make the series. I don't know. It's. It's. It's as entertaining as anything you can see. And it's, it's completely unpredictable. You cannot predict. I don't want to predict who you got. I don't know. No idea. I just want to see it. And I want to see if game, you know, six is going to be as good as games two and three. And I don't know what it means that Edmonton. I wasn't. I think, Tony, if I have a theory as to why they could come out after winning, being down three nothing and winning that game in Florida One of the impossible victories of all time. I think they were just done. They left it out there. They had nothing left. And I think that that's under talk. It's not appreciated. It's underappreciated in sports. People don't understand because all they want to do is measure numbers. They don't understand effort. They don't even know what it is because they don't even watch the games. They just watch the clips. And there are times when teams are gassed. That's it. They got no more left. There's nothing in the human spirit tank. And I think that happened to Edmonton the other night at home, which does.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Not mean that they can't win the series.

[Steve Sands]

No, it doesn't.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Does not. Does not.

[Steve Sands]

Does not mean they can't even this thing up and go and take seven.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's right.

[Steve Sands]

So I'm excited to see six and potentially a seven.

[Tony Kornheiser]

What about, what about the basketball?

[Steve Sands]

I. That. It's, it's, it's along the same lines. There hasn't been a single heroic game yet. But, man, you know, it's too bad, you know, let me, you know, get myself in a little bit hot water. It's too bad that the NBA and its partners, its broadcast partners have spent so much time marketing Steph Curry and LeBron James, who don't need it. Not, not in the last 10 years, they haven't needed it. And they spend so much time doing that that you go through the season and people don't know who Shay Gilgamesh Alexander and Tyrese Halliburton are. Come on now. I don't care what they play. I don't. I don't care where they play. These guys have been doing this all season or certainly since January 1st. Halliburton, I mean, Shay Gilgamesh Alexander all season. That's why he's the mvp. And so the other night he had his. Yes, I'm going to say this. What may turn out to be his Michael Jordan moment on the road game, slipping away, down 10, tied for the most rabid crowd in the league with his own in his ear. And he hits that three and he hits a two in the game. He takes over the game. He does what the great players do. I don't care what market they play in. Damn it. He. Maybe he's Tim Duncan. He doesn't need to gesticulate. He doesn't like. I love Halliburton for doing, for being who he is. Demonstrative, funny. If you listen to him and you watch his post game He's a star. I'm not going to give like a clip of what he's a superstar or not. He's a star. And Shay Gildrich Alexander is in a different way. He doesn't. If you like your basketball, you want what we used to call clean cut, whatever that means in America and to whomever it means something. Now, this kid doesn't scowl, he doesn't fight, he doesn't argue with the refs. He's perfect. Letter perfect. And if people don't want to watch them because they don't play in New York or Chicago, I think people watch Boston. No, they're not watching.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I think when you get to six and seven people.

[Steve Sands]

I don't care about six or seven. Watch.

[Tony Kornheiser]

What are. Wait, are you saying. Are the ratings down? Are the ratings way down? I didn't realize. I just assumed that.

[Steve Sands]

Let them go to hell.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Well, okay.

[Steve Sands]

I am going to watch these play.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Who do you think wins? Who do you think?

[Steve Sands]

I want to play in a Celtic uniform or Laker uniform.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Who do you think wins? Who do you think wins? It's two. Two.

[Steve Sands]

I think Oklahoma City wins.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Me too.

[Steve Sands]

I think their chance was at 3.

[Michael Wilbon]

1.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Me too.

[Steve Sands]

I think their chance. And they, and they. Oklahoma City took it because Shea Gilliam Alexander is the best player on the floor. He took it. But man, they had it right. They had a couple of loose possessions. They got a little tired themselves. There's something magical about them. And so maybe they can steal a game. I don't think they get a chance again okc to steal it. But that series. And of course tonight is game five.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, it's in Oklahoma.

[Steve Sands]

So there's more ball. But I, I, you know, it just bothers me. Yes, you can see it bothers me. You can hear bothers me. I don't care where they play or what the jersey is. If you, if you love great basketball, I don't need to wait to game six or seven. They've been great already. And so this kid is. This kid's. This kid's. Wow. Watch it.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I'll watch it and I'll see you later.

[Steve Sands]

Hi, Tom.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Michael Wilbon, boys and girls. We will take a break. Steve Sands will join us when we return. I'm Tony Kornheiser. This episode is brought to you by State Farm.

[Unknown Speaker]

Sports are all about teamwork and so is insurance. Whether you need an in person or digital assist, State Farm is there to help you choose the right coverage for your home car and more. Get a game plan that helps fit your life and talk to State Farm today.

[Tony Kornheiser]

State Farm with the assistance.

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[Tony Kornheiser]

Availability and eligibility vary by state.

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[Dan Byrne]

Go to your happy price, Priceline.

[Michael Wilbon]

You're listening to the Tony Kornheiser show.

[Tony Kornheiser]

This is Scott Salmon. This is song called Gone Are the Days. This guy's good. Yes, this guy's good. Scott Samuel. Wow. Gone Are the Days plays in Steve Sands. We just opened the show and we talked all about the US Open, and I think it's a great ending. The ending is what people are going to remember. You follow golf. You know all about these tournaments. Was that fair? Was it fair the way they handled the rain and then the water afterwards? In your mind, was that a fair test? I thought it was not.

[Michael Wilbon]

It was real, real close to the edges, very usga. Like. I would tend to think it was not on the fair side. If you were putting it on a ledger right in the middle. I would put it on the unfair side more than the fair side. I didn't think it was brutal. I didn't think it was, you know, Shinnecock in 2004 or, you know, I didn't think it was Oakmont in 2016 when nobody knew what the score was. I, it was a little goofy. The thing that bothered me the most as far as the fair, unfair debate was not how the event played out. Tony. But Sam Burns has got to drop there.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yes.

[Michael Wilbon]

That's.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's took him out of the tournament.

[Michael Wilbon]

Yeah, that really, really stung. And I, for the life of me don't understand how that's not eligible to get a drop there. That's. That was brutal.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I thought you saw it in his body language as soon as he hit the shot and went dead left and he smashed the. And he was done. He was done. And he was a real contender at that point.

[Michael Wilbon]

Oh, he was going to win. I think he was going to win the championships. I think that now you could make a strong case that in sports you get dealt a bad hand and you get A bad call in the NBA Finals. You get a bad call in the Stanley Cup Finals or whatever it is, you've got to pick yourself up and get back on the horse.

[Tony Kornheiser]

But that's. Right.

[Michael Wilbon]

That. That part of sports, you know, is one of the things that makes sports so intriguing. This particular case, in my opinion, one of the things that makes golf different than the other sports is, you know, when a ref makes a call, you know, game five tonight, you know, it's an instant thing in golf. There's actually a conversation. You can see it, you can talk about it. You're taking your time. You have the ability to kind of assess. It's not an inst. Type of thing. And for them to not give Sam Burns a drop there, I genuinely think that completely and utterly took him out of the championship mentally. And that was a. In my opinion, I thought that was really wrong by the usga.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. Now, again, and we'll say this a thousand times, JJ Spawn won this tournament. JJ Spawn went minus three on the back nine after five bogeys in the first six holes. So he had a course correction and he won the tournament. But I thought it took Burns out. I thought they were way late in calling it the first time, and I don't know that I wouldn't have called it the second time with the rain. What are your thoughts on that?

[Michael Wilbon]

Yeah, I mean, I was there. I mean, I was. We were all like, okay, well, this is gonna stop at some point. And then it didn't. And then it didn't. And then it didn't. And then it did.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Michael Wilbon]

And I thought they were gonna call it again because I thought it just became unplayable.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Me, too.

[Michael Wilbon]

But, you know, you want to finish on Sunday night for various reasons, and I believe a very good friend of mine used to say that. A good friend of his used to say that the answer to all your questions is money. Whether it's. Whether it's tv, whether it's. Let's get everybody out of here. We don't have the chance to have volunteers tomorrow. We need the golf course to do something else tomorrow. Whether the USJ just wanted to finish it, I don't know. But it was real, real dicey yesterday afternoon, and I. I was a little surprised at how that all took place. But having said that, everybody was playing in the same conditions at the time. Yes, they were all playing the back nine. And J.J. spawn went birdie, birdie on 17 and 18 to win the U.S. open by one. I mean, give me a break. I mean, you know, that's pretty darn incredible for him to do that.

[Tony Kornheiser]

You, I said this before in golf, you don't want a tournament to be lost, you want it to be won. And J.J. spawn won the tournament. Right? There's no question he won the tournament.

[Michael Wilbon]

No question. And by the way, you know, Robert McIntyre would have. That's right, the US Open, if he would have gone on to win the trophy. I thought that both of them played fabulous coming down the stretch. The other guys faltered. And, you know, we've said this many, many times, Tony, and I'm in total agreement with you. You sometimes you get to the finish line, but you didn't quite win the event, per se, in quotes. Not this time. JJ spun, went out and played great golf. Three under par on the back nine in those conditions. And then birdie birdie on the 17th at 18th hole. I mean, are you kidding me? That's, that's, that's some fabulous golf right there. He's a deserving champion.

[Tony Kornheiser]

The winner overall is Oakmont. Right? I mean, they. Oakmont humbles the pros to the degree that I'm sure they would have. I'm sure the USGA would have liked if no one finished under par. But you had one guy under par in the field. One guy. That's it.

[Michael Wilbon]

Yeah, I mean, it was, it was kind of attrition. You know, it was four under after the first day, and then it just kept backing up. You know, I know it was four under going into the day yesterday, but the scores kept backing up.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Oh, yeah.

[Michael Wilbon]

Not, not individually. Sam Burns having that overnight lead, which was the same overnight lead that it was on Thursday, and it was one more than the overnight lead was on Friday night. But everybody just kept going back and back and back. I mean, Rory McElroy, Scotty Scheffler, these guys shot, you know, macro shot 67 and went way up the leaderboard. You know, obviously he wasn't in contention. Scheffler, you know, for about 20 minutes there, you thought, well, if he can get it in the house here at three over, you know, Rom is at four over. They told him to stick around. And that was at 2:30 in the afternoon. And when Scheffler was at 303 over, and I thought, wow, if he posts two or three over, that this could be really interesting. And, you know, J.J. spawn ended up kind of getting the one under par. But Oakmont is such a worthy U.S. open venue. It's such a great, great golf course. It's so tough. It's quintessential U.S. open. It looks like a U.S. open, Tony. It feels like a U.S. open. The crowds there are amazing. Western Penns, hardy folks, lousy weather. Getting out there and getting after it. It was. It's an awesome spot. It's. It's.

[Steve Sands]

It.

[Tony Kornheiser]

There's a.

[Michael Wilbon]

There's a reason that Oakmont is one of the three anchor sites for the USGA to hold the US Open. Along with pebble beach and Pinehurst, Oakmont is just an awesome, awesome place.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So there was a period of time on Friday and Saturday. I want to concentrate on Friday and Saturday for a second, where the following people were at the top of the leaderboard. And, yes, Victor Hovland was at the top of the leaderboard. I mean, he was in play, and he is a great young player, and everybody knows him. And, yes, Adam Scott was there as well. And Adam Scott has won a Masters, but has not really been a great, great player. He hasn't. And then there's a kid from South Africa, Thurston Lawrence, who nobody's heard of. There's a kid, Carlos Ortiz. I'd never heard of him in my life. There is JJ Spawn. There is, you know, Sam Burns. There are people that you don't really know, and they're at the top of the board. And I got this question. I was out in Delaware. I got it, and then I got it yesterday when I was home. And the question is pretty simple. How come. How come they're at the top of the leaderboard? And Rory, 67 on Sunday, but nothing before that. And Scheffler, even on the weekend? Even on the weekend, but not really a contender. And rahm, you know, 67 on. So where were they on Thursday and Friday? And what is the answer to that? Why do you think that Shop Flay as well, people who shot 69 yesterday, people that. That we put in the category of favorites, how come they got blanked in this one?

[Michael Wilbon]

There are varying degrees of all of these types of questions. And what's fascinating is the one that I hear the most when it comes to the U.S. open and the Open, which will be next month at Royal Port Rush, because of the weather and the conditions. It's just the random nature of it. I was told by many people this week, it was really interesting. I never heard of this, that because of the way the U.S. open sets up the golf course, it lends itself, because it's so difficult, because it's so punishing to miss the fairways. Most of the guys, now we know that, that Scotty and Rory are great drivers. Of the golf ball. But, you know, they're in the rough, you know, quite a bit.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Michael Wilbon]

You know, on the PGA Tour. But on the PGA Tour, that rough is two, two and a half inches, right? Inches, perhaps. And you have choices out of that rough. Meaning, should I go for it? Should I punch it out? What should I do here? Should I lay it up to a certain spot at the US Open? For the most part, when you are in the rough, you don't have a choice. You basically try to hack it out. Like we said on Friday morning or Thursday morning when we spoke. Tony, on your show, you know, you're going to see a lot of guys leave it in the rough. They can't advance it because it's just so punishing. So that's what I was told the last few days, which I found interesting, that it's not set up like a PGA Tour event. So the best players in the world on the PGA Tour pretty much show up every week.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yes.

[Michael Wilbon]

Not a lot of random winners on the PGA Tour. But at a U.S. open, unlike a PGA, which is like a U.S. open, light setup, and Augusta, which is wide open, it kind of lends itself to having these types of, you know, slugfests, if you will. And sometimes that takes the greatest players in the world out of the mix because JJ Spawn's not a. Not a better player than Scottie Scheffler. No one's going to argue that. But on that golf course, well, the way J.J. spawn plays golf, there's not. There's no surprise that he played well at Oakmont after playing so well at TPC Sawgrass, because he's a great ball striker. Remember we talked the other day?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Corey Connors, Taylor Penderth was under par in the last. In the last round.

[Michael Wilbon]

I was. I was. I was like, those are the kinds of people who sometimes win US Opens. And that's what happened this past week. JJ Spawn, by the way, is not a random winner. He's not a random winner. He's just not Scotty Scheffler, Xander Shuffle, Rory McIlroy, Ludwigoberg and Victor Hovland and those types of play, John Rom, those types of players. So he's a worthy champion. It's just that sometimes at the US Open, because of the way they set up the golf course so brutally difficult off of the fairways. That's where the best players in the world, week in, week out on the PGA Tour, end up beating the players like JJ Spawn because they are so much better out of that stuff.

[Tony Kornheiser]

And this doesn't happen in the other majors. I mean, there's no rough like that at Augusta, but. And the PGA itself is not set up like this. Right?

[Steve Sands]

Exactly.

[Michael Wilbon]

I'm saying like a PGA Championship. By no means is it not a major. Certainly major, sure. But it's like. It's like a US Open light. You know, there's been cores and Coors Lights, if you will. And the Masters is completely wide open. And, you know, you can pretty much hit it anywhere for those guys. You know, not for us, but for those guys and their talents, they could pretty much hit it anywhere because there's just no rough there. And then the Open Championship is completely predicated on the condition of the golf course, which is based solely on the weather and that that lends to random things as well. But the US Open, man, you know, you look over the years, it. Sometimes this stuff happens. Steve Jones beat Davis Love III in 96 at Oakland Hills. You know, Lee Jansen has a couple of these. North has a couple.

[Tony Kornheiser]

He's got any. North has two of these and one other win. That's it. That's all he's got, by the way.

[Michael Wilbon]

And I love. And he's a dear friend. He's a great, great player. But look at his Resume. He's a U.S. open guy. Lee Jansen won two U.S. open. He's a U.S open guy. Ratif Goosen 12 U.S. opens. He's a U.S Open guy. You know, JJ Spawn might win another one of these things, and you might look back and go, yep, he was a US Open type of guy. And that's just the way it is when it comes to this country's national championship compared to the other three majors.

[Tony Kornheiser]

The two guys at the top of the board. Spawn went into a playoff, got smothered by Rory in a playoff of the players, but finished first after four days, finished tied for first, and has had a couple of other top fives this year. And Robert McIntyre won. Right? His dad was on the bag at the something in January or February. I mean, he's not a slouch, Robert McIntyre. You could see him winning these things, right?

[Michael Wilbon]

He won two PGA Tour events last year. Both of them were national championships. The Canadian Open, he won last year. And then a few weeks later, which is the event that's coming up in a couple of weeks, just before we go to Royal Port Rush, the Genesis Scottish Open, which is that country's national championship, and he's from Scotland, you can make a case that Robert McIntyre winning the Canadian Open, winning his first PGA Tour event, was A massive, massive thing for him to win the Scottish Open, you know, from Scotland. That type of pressure, that is an enormous deal for him. And he's won all over the world. He's won those two big PGA Tour events. And, you know, he almost won yesterday. He was a great, great closer yesterday. He finished strong, and he is a very, very good player. Wouldn't shock me at all if he performs well next month at Royal Port Rush. He's a very, very good player.

[Tony Kornheiser]

And we are in no way diminishing or demeaning the Spawn, because what he did on the back nine was tremendous. It was tremendous. Right.

[Michael Wilbon]

Listen, I've spoken to Marco Mirror about this a thousand times. Marco Mirror became the first player, the only player to win the Master at the time, to win the masters by birdying 17 and 18 on Sunday. He was the first player to ever do that. Well, yesterday, J.J. spahn closed the U.S. open with birdies on 17 and 18. I don't think people realize how astonishing that is. First of all, to get back to back birdies at a US Open anyway is a joke. He was the only player under par for the week. So clearly birdies are tough to come by. And I know that the last part was something, you know, crazy. Nick Taylor from Canada, 72ft, you know, a couple years ago, bizarre putt. But the thing about that punt that was so incredible, to me, it was actually twofold. One, it's incredibly difficult to two putt to win any event, let alone a major championship, from that far away. That's the first thing. It was pouring rain.

[Steve Sands]

Pouring.

[Michael Wilbon]

The golf course had completely changed as far as its green speeds and all those types of things. And moments before that, he got a really good read, a really good teach from Victor Hovland. But that sometimes isn't the greatest thing in the world, because Victor had to make that putt to give himself a chance, because McIntyre was already in at plus one. If JJ spawned at even par with a three putt, he would have finished at plus one, and there would have been a playoff. So Victor had to make that putt. So he got the teach and he got the read and he got the speed from Victor Hovland. But did he? Because Victor was trying to absolutely make that. And sometimes you can be really aggressive in that regard. JJ was looking to two putt that, and he drained it perfectly. And it was just a money, money. A money moment, a memorable moment and. And good for jj, man. Like I said, make no mistake about anything that happened yesterday. J.J. spawn won that U.S. open he's a worthy champion.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, I agree. Agree. Thank you as always. Thank you. Talk soon, I'm sure. Thanks, Steve.

[Steve Sands]

All right.

[Michael Wilbon]

You got it, Tony. Take care.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Steve Sands, boys and girls. We will come back email and jingle. I'm Tony Kornheiser. Are you still quoting 30 year old movies? Have you said cool beans in the past 90 days?

[Chris]

Do you think Discover isn't widely accepted?

[Tony Kornheiser]

If this sounds like you, you're stuck in the past. Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide. And every time you make a purchase with your card, you automatically earn cash back.

[Chris]

Welcome to the now it pays to Discover.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Learn [e-mail] credit card based on the February 2024 Nielsen report.

[Michael Wilbon]

You're listening to the Tony Kornheise.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Thank you to James Bug. Is it going to rain all week?

[Chris]

Do we have just today?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Just today, maybe into tomorrow.

[Chris]

We picked up another almost inch of rain yesterday.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So much rain in Washington.

[Intern Chris]

It's good for the potatoes.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I hope so. Good for the zucchini. Great for the zucchini.

[Unknown Speaker]

Planted really well.

[Chris]

The great zucchini with a big performance last week for the kindergarten.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Loved it, right? They loved it.

[Chris]

Loved it. So great the hammer got to participate.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Oh, what did he do? He was called on.

[Chris]

He got called up. A little nervous, but he was called up.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's good. That's good.

[Chris]

Hands in the pocket.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Did, did the great zucchini put any bets down on the NBA?

[Chris]

We were talking about the commanders and outlook. Yeah, I walk through the. What do you think they're gonna finish that with Total wins.

[Tony Kornheiser]

You want to do the Bethesda bagel ad? We have sandwiches.

[Intern Chris]

Bagel sandwiches. They're always happy about that.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Lucky, injured as he is.

[Intern Chris]

Yes. The one thing you truly need is a bagel sandwiches.

[Chris]

Keep it out of reach.

[Intern Chris]

Bethesda bagels. Just go to bethesdabagles.com for location in the DC area nearest you. Then pop one in and you'll be thrilled.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Before we get to the mailbag, let me just say somewhere beyond the sea, somewhere waiting for me My lover stands on golden sands and watches the ships that go sailing. That's Robert Walden Cassoto, Bobby Darin. It's a great song. Thanks to our guest today, Michael Wilbon, who's angry Steve Sands. Thanks as well to today's sponsors. Remember, you can listen to us on Apple podcasts, Spotify and Audacity of get show through Apple. Please leave us a review from Glenn and Alan. Norwegian soft kitten.

[Intern Chris]

Oh yes.

[Tony Kornheiser]

As you and many of the littles know Brian Wilson was an accomplished bass player. Sadly, over the last decade or so of his life, Brian called us three or four times a year to beg us to join Norwegian Soft Kitten as our bass player. And our response every time was Tony Kornheiser used to play bass for us. And you, sir, are no Tony Kornhauser. Then we'd hang up. Red Hobbs, Linton, Indiana. Your words about Brian Wilson's passing took me straight back to my teenage years. Back to cruising in my first car, 1964 Chevy Impala. She had a roaring 327 under the hood with dual pipes that made her sing like a lion on the open road. The only modification I made was installing an eight track tape deck in the console. Then the Beach Boys Endless Summer practically lived in it. Their music painted a picture of a sun soaked California that a boy from Indiana could only dream about. Fueling my longing for places I'd never seen. Thanks to you, I'm revisiting the rush of youth, the thrill of that car, and the soundtrack that made every drive an adventure. Sometimes a little faster than it should have been. And like any true eight track devotee, I always kept a matchbook handy to wedge into the deck whenever the tape wandered off the track. Thank you for rekindling these cherished moments. Everybody did that. It's a lovely email. Yes. Bill Masters. Hey, Tony. I'm in my 70s. I grew up in DC. My music was James Brown, Otis Redding, Smokey Robinson. I had no use for music about the sun, surfing, blondes and 110% humidity outside my door. So I missed it all the day Brian Wilson died, my son of Southern California sat down at the piano and played God Only knows. It was so beautiful, I cried. That's what wonderful.

[Steve Sands]

That's.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's great. I did. I had a long talk with Jeannie. Jeannie grew up in D.C. yeah, and she listened to soul music and she didn't listen to Brian Wilson. That was not in the D.C. repertoire as it was, say, in New York. Rich Barajas, El Paso, Texas. Because we know you're on the pulse of Hollywood Showbiz News, there's no need to tell you that there was a Bruce Springsteen movie coming out centered around the time of the recording of the album Nebraska in. @ the podcaster Mark Maron has a small role playing Chuck Plotkin, the sound engineer for that album. I wanted to see other credits of Plotkin and as you scroll through a few hacks like Springsteen and Bob Dylan over and over, I finally got to a credit with a real talent. Dan Byrne. Our Dan Byrne, the talent behind such classics as Bootsy the Hammer and the Captain, the Beltway, Mitterrand and Uncle Benny's Table. If the Internet is telling the truth, and the Internet is Never wrong, apparently Mr. Plotkin is credited as a producer and hand clapper on Dan's debut album. It just goes to show you that any career has to struggle through hacks like the Boss and Dylan before you finally get your shot at true genius. From Tony T In Brooklyn in D.C. there have been times when Mr. Wilbon, who I deeply respect, has cast aspersions on D.C. area sports fans. The drink will be called a funky Cornheiser. A few days back, Richard justice mentioned country singer Hayes Carr served him drinks after a DC show. Tony Reali was in my spot once, waiting for a table at a hip ramen joint. Been in the industry since in D.C. since 93. A lot of famous folks have gotten drinks from me. When Jaws gets mentioned, however, I'm always reminded the greatest honor I've had as a bartender. One shift, there were rumors floating around that some guys might be coming in for a drink. Sure enough, in the middle of a packed happy hour, six old fellas walk in wearing USS Indianapolis hats. I immediately turned down the music and cleared seats for them at my bar. They came to see me for five years in a row, testifying before Congress to get their captain's court martial overturned. Their stories of treading water waiting for rescue were humbling. At the end of the fifth visit, they came in later. Tony, we like your Jamesons, but we're not coming back. They've overturned the court martial. I will never get cooler customers than that. How about that? I do have lots of other bar stories from Tim Fredericks. Happy belated Father's Day. I received this plethora of my dad's chips from my middle feminine child. She had to hunt them down at a grocery store called Zingo's Market. Sounds like a place that you would frequent for fireworks and Mad Dog 2020. You'll notice the kitchen outlets. I won't tell you how many I have because I don't know. And yes, a whole bunch of my dad's chips on a cabinet from Bill Powell, Madison, New Jersey A while back I had a very similar experience to your cherry purchase. I'm delighted you persisted and you noticed and you purchased the cherries at the price presented to you. I received an email from Barnes and Noble offering a book I wanted at $46. I went to the nearby B and N as I'VE always enjoyed a bookstore. I found my desired book. I went to the cashier, cashier rang it up and the price was $50. I questioned the price and said I had an email with an offer $4 less. He said, that's the price if ordered online or via the app. So this is the moment when I decide, do I pay the extra $4 or argue the charge? Argue. I did. I said, you sent me correspondence offering a price I find acceptable. I'm willing to pay that price. I proceeded to show him the email. He said, the online price does offer free shipping. I replied, yes, but I'm here, so I'm saving you the shipping. A blank stare met me, called over the manager and I purchased the book at the price offered on the email. The $4 wasn't the issue and I didn't want to be the guy holding up the line. But we must continue to fight confusing bait and switch tactics by retailers. You are our beacon of light in the fog of such chicanery. Oh great, Baldwin, isn't that nice? Validation Isn't that nice? Jack Elsie Detroit, Michigan as we hopeless golfers often do, we look for any excuse to sneak in some work around our golf schedule. This week's edition of SAID Character Floor was a work trip to the Albany, New York, area, which included a gorgeous round at the legendary Equinique Equanic Equanic I'm sorry Golf course in Manchester, Vermont, which I have played, and then down to Williamstown, Massachusetts, to play the state's number one ranked public course, Taconic. Taconic is situated next to Williams College, and the clubhouse is guarded by purple and gold flowers. Be careful not to call them yellow. I was immediately corrected by a Williams alum who was in town for reunion weekend. My buddy CR and I were promptly paired with said school color expert Tom. As we got to talking on the front nine, I noticed his Columbia golf bag. Saying he was from dc, I offered him a Hardy Lachis Ree, which was met with a blank stare. Disappointed but determined nonetheless, I said, I'm an avid listener too, and he promptly interrupted me and said, at Cornheiser, Yeah, I was on his show once, he said, to my surprise as the curling expert, I remember that shared that you both used to play a lot together at the club, and then added cryptically, the great thing about Tony is he is what he is. Just I don't know.

[Chris]

I don't know.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Deciding not to dig too deeply into that comment and noticing that Tom was increasingly channeling his golf frustration into incomprehensible muttering around the Greens decided to let sleeping dogs lie. The connective tissue of the show never fails. Even outside the podcast, playing around with Tom Walsh was a treat. Proof that good people are all around the TK orbit. Oh, and please tell fellow listener and long life and lifelong educator and frequent podcast dealer Mike Corey to eat it. Steve the Sycophant on last Wednesday's pod you received a missive from little Charlie Burtz announcing his retirement as a teacher from the Fairfax County Public Schools. Charlie is a fellow trumpeter in the Fairfax Wind Symphony and the now former director of the Katherine Johnson Middle School Band, the official middle school band of the TK Stack Money Show. Charlie and his fellow teachers do the almost impossible, taking hellraisers such as my sons and somehow educating them and admiring. Hats off to Charlie. We need a lot more teachers as good as he is. From Dan Wallsman in Damascus, Maryland, Tony the new game should be what would you rather do than listen to high school graduation speeches? I would rather go on a field trip with my kid. Brutal. Go to a team building exercise or listen to a sibling talk about how smart their kids kids are. And from John Fitzpatrick in Arvada. Or is it Arvada or Arvada, Colorado? Is it we need to know Arvada. How fitting that Cars for Kids preceded the debut of Jason Lochinfor's AI enabled theme song on Thursday show. I don't know which is more dreadful, but can we please never hear and either of them again? And sure, some of my jingles were no better, but at least they've been consigned to history's rubbish bin. Oh, Brandon Costello. One more Mr. Dr. Porthouser. I just ate an entire pizza on the the car in the car on the way home from work. It wasn't the will you got on your bike tonight. As always, everyone do wear white I guess. Third and two and the crowd engaged in a hearty lerie to the folks from Seattle. Unbelievable.

[Dan Byrne]

Sinner and Al Sinner. Shame I to be a loser and a winner. For a fortnight they floated on the clay of Roland Garrus. Sinner was defeated. Alcaraz Toast of Paris Sinner and Alcaraz. Alcaraz Sinner body and Sinner was frowning. Alcaraz the Grinner three match points thought Janik, his poor brain a spinner. Alcaraz held the trophy and said what's for dinner? Alcaraz and Sinner. Sinner and Alcarez. Yannick took the bus. Carlos enjoyed Paris and jazz Algorithm Sinner, Sinner and ever as Alcaraz now has five majors, two more than sinner has. And though I'm not an expert, I might be a simpleton. I'm guessing they might do pretty well at Wimbledon.

[Steve Sands]

There's a vein that I haven't hit.

[Dan Byrne]

Yet There's a high that I haven't caught There's a feeling that I can't get Cause I know how much it costs this can never end the sunset but it ain't that great of you Spending time rewind or regret Trying to find what I redo it all comes down to a simple phrase.

[Tony Kornheiser]

John all.

[Dan Byrne]

The day whenever I've come to hate could have got me back to even Or a lie I looked at twice as long Might have been worse at I believe it My sin is there and here and now I've gone the separate ways but we may have peace exchange I keep the demon quiet but the rent ain't cheap I think he liked to write it with the man I used to be it all comes down to a simple phrase Long John Holidays with habit outcome but he could have gotten me back to even I looked at twice as long Might have been worth ever believing My city's there and here and now Done gone their separate ways but we made our peace exchange the valley now it all comes down to a simple phrase.

[Steve Sands]

It all.

[Dan Byrne]

Comes down to a simple phrase Looked at twice as long Might have been worth ever leaving But I said is there and here and now Done gone their separate ways but we made our peace Change the vow now count on the days.