“It now begins with 4 vs 13”

Summary

The Tony Kornheiser Show — “It now begins with 4 vs 13” (March 19, 2026)

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Episode Overview

This episode of The Tony Kornheiser Show marks the conclusion of Bracket Week, a beloved annual tradition where Tony and a rotating crew of sports insiders and show regulars break down the NCAA basketball tournament. The core of the show revolves around detailed bracket analysis, but—as always—Tony’s signature wit and asides bring humor and warmth. Guests Bob Ryan (esteemed sportswriter), Jeff Ma (analytics and gambling expert), and Greg Garcia (sitcom creator/stand-up comic) join Tony. The episode features in-depth NCAA picks, debates about what constitutes an “upset,” a raucous rhymed bracket breakdown, and plenty of show lore and banter. The tone is informed, fast-paced, playful, and self-deprecating—perfect for TK Show regulars and new listeners alike.

Note: Ads, show intros/outros, and music breaks are omitted.

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1. The Meaning of an Upset and Bracket Evaluation

(Key segment: 02:52–06:30; 17:38–18:12)

Bob Ryan on What Counts as an “Upset”

• Bob pushes back on traditional upset narratives: for him, upsets “truly begin at 4 vs 13”—lower-seeded wins like 9-over-8 or 7-over-10 are not upsets.
• Quote:

  “Upset is the most abused word in this time of the year. Upsets begin at 4, 13. Anything up to 5-12 is not an upset. The tournament has proven that. It is what it is.”
  — Bob Ryan [06:02]

Miami of Ohio & Play-In Game Frustration

• Tony expresses frustration at Miami of Ohio being put in a play-in, which Bob agrees is disrespectful to smaller programs:

  “It angered me. I thought it was very, very small of the committee to put them in a play-in game.”
  — Tony Kornheiser [03:49] “They deserved better. ... It was a legitimate victory.”
  — Bob Ryan [03:55]

• Tony advocates for play-ins to be reserved for ‘major conference fifth/sixth place teams’ rather than 16-seeds.
• Bob flags how big money “power conferences” shape the tournament narrative.

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2. MVP Races & Jaylen Brown Discussion

(Key segment: 04:40–05:36)

• Tony asks if Jaylen Brown is MVP material. Bob takes a nuanced position:

  “With MVP, the word valuable is a distortion... Every team has a guy like that. ... He [Brown] is in the discussion. Can I categorically say he’s the MVP? No. But you cannot have a discussion without including him.”
  — Bob Ryan [04:46–05:15]

• Tony follows with, “That’s why I’m not allowed to vote. ... But I would vote for Jaylen Brown.” [05:36]

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3. Bracket Walkthroughs: Expert Picks & Rationale

3.1 Bob Ryan’s Bracket (with Tony and Greg)

(Key segments: 06:30–18:29)

Upset Philosophy Recap

• 4/13 or higher counts as an upset for Bob; he identifies Troy over Nebraska (13 over 4) as a bold pick.

Arizona Bracket

• Bob picks Arizona to advance to the Final Four.
• Detailed, line-by-line game predictions, e.g.:

  “I got Arizona, of course, winning first game... facing Purdue second... Purdue is dangerous, they could win, but I’m going with Arizona.”
  [06:33–07:05]

• Picks:
  • Arizona over Purdue, Michigan and Iowa State meeting, Iowa State going to Final Four
  • Arizona advances from quadrant
• Picks Utah State over Villanova, BYU over Texas, Gonzaga over Kennesaw St.
• Picks Purdue over Gonzaga, Arizona over Iowa State for Final Four spot.

Michigan Bracket

• Upset: Akron ("the Zips") picked in 5-12 game. Santa Clara over Kentucky (“shaky pick,” Bob admits).
• Chalk for Alabama over Hofstra. Tennessee over Miami OH.
• Picks Iowa State to the Final Four, beats Michigan in regional.

Duke Bracket

• Names hardest bracket “by a mile.”
• 11-over-6 upset: South Florida over Louisville. St. John's over Northern Iowa.
• Michigan State is “a lurker” (dangerous mid-seed).
• Picks UConn over UCLA; then Duke to Final Four after beating UConn.

Florida Bracket

• Upset: Troy (13) over Nebraska (4).
• VCU (11) over UNC (6).
• Picks Florida, Vandy, Illinois, Houston (in Houston’s backyard).
• Florida–Houston: Picks Houston.

Final Four and “Lurkers”

• Duke, Houston; Arizona, Iowa State; picks Arizona to win it all.

  “I'm crowning the Wildcats... I’m going to say that this is the time the door will open.”
  — Bob Ryan [17:16–17:19]

• Lists “the Lurkers”: Virginia, Illinois, Michigan State, Michigan, UConn, Florida.

  “Those are my lurkers.”
  [17:54]

• On Miami of Ohio’s moment:

  “My one was hoping that Miami or Ohio could shut some people up. And they did. ... That’s my satisfaction.”
  — Bob Ryan [17:59]

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3.2 Jeff Ma’s Analytical Bracket

(Key segments: 21:13–32:28)

Approach to Bracket Picking

• Jeff is candid: “Doing brackets is fun. It's definitely not something I would do to make money... So much randomness attached.” [21:13]
• Explains "Calcuttas"—high-stakes auction pools centered on “investment” rather than luck.

Arizona Bracket Calls

• Utah State over Villanova (“not an upset”)
• High Point over Wisconsin (“shoots a lot of threes, so a lot of variance”)
• Missouri (home game effect) over Miami
• Takes Arizona over Arkansas, then Arizona-Gonzaga, picks Gonzaga to beat Arizona for Final Four berth.

Michigan Bracket

• “St. Louis over Georgia, not an upset...” [24:47]
• Big upset pick: Miami of Ohio over Tennessee.
• Kentucky over Santa Clara. Michigan over Alabama.
• Final Four: Michigan beats Iowa State.

Duke Bracket

• TCU over OSU (9 over 8)
• Northern Iowa over St. John's (slow pace, defense)
• Duke over Kansas, Louisville over Michigan State, UCLA over UConn
• “Duke in the Final Four.” [28:09]

Florida Bracket

• Upset: Iowa over Clemson.
• St. Mary’s over Houston (“big upset”).
• Illinois emerges to Final Four.

Championship Prediction

• Final Four: Duke, Michigan, Illinois, Gonzaga.
• Championship: Michigan over Duke.
• Warns against “recency bias”—all four #1 seeds rarely make Final Four; probability “about 4 or 5%” [31:45]

  “Humans always place too much probability on something we can imagine or remember... That’s why people are overweighting this.”
  — Jeff Ma [32:06]

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3.3 Greg Garcia’s Rhyming Bracket & Stand-Up Update

(Key segments: 35:18–49:18)

Greg’s Stand-Up Hobby

• Las Vegas shows opening for Nate Bargatze. Still “in the hole a couple grand... I still have my amateur status.” [35:25]

  “I'm embarrassed how excited I am and how much fun I'm having.”
  — Greg Garcia [35:47]

Bracket, in Seuss-Style Rhyme

• “By the end of this segment, you'll be sick of listening to me talk. So as a treat, in the Arizona brackets, first round, I have nothing but chalk.” [37:51]
• Michigan bracket: Picks Hofstra (“the flying D words”) over Alabama, invokes school pride.
• Florida bracket: “VCU comes out spicy like paprika, Old Bay and saffron…” [38:43]
• Duke bracket: Picks Siena over Duke “because my boy Steve Sands hates Duke.” [39:01]

Notable Rhyme Quotes

• Arizona/Gonzaga:

  “Arizona takes the win with one last fatal shot. And Gonzaga disappears like the egg harbor bagel spot.”
  — Greg Garcia [41:01]

• Michigan/Iowa State:

  "Michigan wins by a sliver. Texas Tech gives their best, but like the US Post Office with a check, they fail to deliver."
  — [42:38]

• UVA/Iowa State:

  "Virginia will not only win, they'll cover the spread. Their shooting will be tastier than a loaf of Liz's bread."
  — [43:13]

• Siena/Ohio State:

  “Ohio State will eat from Siena for dinner and maybe even dessert. Another one that will be uglier than a wannabet sweatshirt. How ugly is that guy's sweatshirt? So ugly, when Tony draped it over the Statue of Liberty on PTI, it solved the immigration problem.”
  — [43:44]

Greg’s Final Four & Champion

• Arizona (over Gonzaga)
• Virginia (from Michigan/Iowa State bracket)
• St. John's (from Duke/UConn bracket)
• Florida (out of Houston’s bracket)

Championship:

• Arizona beats Florida.

  “Arizona wins. There, I've said it. For Florida, there's no trophy, no parade, no shop credit.”
  — [47:56]

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4. Show Banter, Inside Jokes, and Closing Moments

• Endearing, recurring show motifs:
  • Tony’s hearing issues (“clogged right ear”), lifelong obsession with matchbooks, golf-chat (“finished third in gross” at scramble).
  • Greg Garcia’s running gags about ugly sweatshirts (“wannabet sweatshirt”), his “amateur” stand-up career, bits about horse ownership with Rick Pitino, and “representing the Littles.”
• Show lore:
  • Shoutouts to show “Littles,” emailers, and inside jokes about Frostburg State, High Point University, and more.
  • Advice on Masters attendance, classic TK Show mailbag.
• Email tributes—funny listener stories about saltines, Midwest/Maine, sports nostalgia.

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5. Memorable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• “The Tony Kornheiser Show is on now.” — Tony Kornheiser [02:43]
• “Upset is the most abused word in this time of the year. Upsets begin at 4,13.” — Bob Ryan [06:02]
• “That wannabet sweatshirt is so ugly… When Tony draped it over the Statue of Liberty on PTI, it solved the immigration problem.” — Greg Garcia [43:44]
• “Doing brackets is fun. It's definitely not something I would do to try to make money...so much randomness.” — Jeff Ma [21:13]
• “My one was hoping that Miami or Ohio could shut some people up. And they did. That’s my satisfaction.” — Bob Ryan [17:59]
• “Humans always place too much probability on something we can imagine or remember...That’s why people are overweighting this.” — Jeff Ma [32:06]
• “I still have my amateur status.” — Greg Garcia on his (unpaid) stand-up career [35:25]
• “No man, no beast can stop us now.” — Musical outro, Sons of Town Hall [58:11]

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6. Timestamps for Major Segments

• [02:35] Bracket picks begin, Bob Ryan joins
• [04:40] Jaylen Brown MVP discussion
• [06:02] Definition of upsets (“4-13 and up”)
• [06:30–18:29] Bob Ryan’s detailed bracket breakdown
• [21:13] Jeff Ma on analytics approach and Calcuttas
• [23:06] Jeff Ma’s in-depth bracket analysis
• [35:18] Greg Garcia’s stand-up update; rhymed bracket picks
• [37:31–47:56] Garcia’s “Seussical” picks and show banter
• [47:56] Final picks, golf, and show signoff

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Summary

This episode is a spirited and highly detailed dissection of NCAA tournament brackets, blending expert sports insight, backstage industry tales, analytics, and comic relief. Tony orchestrates a friendly, competitive, and self-deprecating conversation with marquee guests who peel back not only who they like but how they think about risk, tradition, and what makes the madness in March “mad.” The bracket picks reflect a balance of wisdom, analytics, fandom, and mischief—epitomized by Garcia’s comic verse.

The show remains a must-listen for sports fans craving both substance and humor, with community, tradition, and inside-joke warmth sprinkled through every segment.

Transcript

[Tony Kornheiser]

Hey, it's Tony. We conclude bracket week today with Bob Ryan, the quintessential American sportswriter, former valet Jeff Ma, and on original, our original board op, Greg Garcia. But first, let's keep the sales weasel happy.

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[Tony Kornheiser]

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[Greg Garcia]

I went with Iowa State.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Iowa State at 2 seed. Makes all the sense in the world. Michigan, Hofstra.

[Bob Ryan]

Now I'd still stuck with Michigan.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay.

[Greg Garcia]

And then Iowa State.

[Tony Kornheiser]

It's 1 and 2. It's chalk. All right, who's gonna be in the final four?

[Bob Ryan]

I stuck with Iowa State.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Are you getting help from somebody who knows what they're doing?

[Bob Ryan]

No.

[Tony Kornheiser]

This is a pretty good bracket. The Tony Kornheiser show is on now. Phil's mom had a good bracket, a surprisingly good bracket as far as I was concerned. We are the last day now of brackets week and we bring in the heavy hitters. We bring in Bob Ryan, the quintessential American sportswriter. And I will just begin. Before we get to the bracket, two things I want to talk about. One is I had Miami of Ohio dead wrong. I thought they were going to lose by 40. What did you think?

[Bob Ryan]

I picked them. I picked them to win. So I'm feeling good this morning.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay.

[Bob Ryan]

I'm very happy, very happy for them. And now it's all gravy. They did what they had to do. Now anything else they do is, you know, excessive, but they did what they had to do. I'm so happy for them.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I thought it was very, very small of the committee to put them in a play in game. Very small. And it angered me.

[Bob Ryan]

Yeah, well, it showed you. It was so precarious for them. We know that. I agree with you. I thought they deserved better than that. But they now, you know, they did what they had to do and they showed the will and it wasn't a cheapo, it wasn't a lucky shot. It wasn't a bad call. It was, it was, it was a legitimate victory.

[Tony Kornheiser]

No, I don't think the sixteens should be put in a play in game at all. Excuse me. That, that I think the play in games should be major conference, you know, fifth and sixth place teams that should not be sixteens and should not be a Miami of Ohio. Yes, yes, you're right.

[Bob Ryan]

Well, yes, that's the larger. The whole overriding story is about, about the power conferences, blah, blah, blah.

[Greg Garcia]

Yeah, you're right.

[Bob Ryan]

You're right. I agree.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay, so. And I'll go to one other thing. Jaylen Brown, he's the MVP of the league. Right.

[Bob Ryan]

You know, with mvp, I always go to this. I think that the word valuable is a distortion. You can. Every team has a guide at. Oh, if you took them out, where would they Be. You can say that for everybody. It's about the years. He's having a terrific year.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Bob Ryan]

He's in the discussion. Can I categorically say that it's that he's the mvp? No, but can I say that you cannot have a discussion without including him. And if you want to vote for him, it's totally legitimate. Is he more valuable, quote, unquote, than sga? Is he more valuable than Jokic? He's very useful and important to the Boston Celtics, and he's shown the world that he gets it, that he has calibrated his talent with these other guys, and they're a surprising contender.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I lay it on his feet. I. I would vote. That's why I'm not allowed to get a vote. Wilburn gets a vote, but I'm not allowed to. But I would vote for Jalen Brown. All right, let's go to the brackets. Let's start. Excuse me. This cold lingers. I'm sorry. Let's start with the Arizona bracket and reminding people that for Bob Ryan, a 9 over 8 is not an upset. No, a 7 over 10 is not an upset. He starts with 611 upsets.

[Bob Ryan]

Truly begin, quote, unquote, upset. Upset is the most abused word in this time of the year. Upsets begin at 4, 13. Anything from anything up to 512 is not an upset. The tournament has proven that. It's just. It is what it is. So I have in my. I've listed all my four 13s, five 12, six, 11, seven 10s and eight 9s for you. But. But I do, in fact, have a 413.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay, go ahead. Take us down. Arizona in the first round?

[Bob Ryan]

Yeah, Arizona. I got Arizona, of course, winning in the first game. Then I have them facing Purdue in the second game. And Purdue is a dangerous team. They could win, but somebody's got to win. I'm going with Arizona. Then in the bottom half of that bracket, we got Michigan and Iowa State finally clashing. And I've got Iowa State coming out down there in the Midwest, and they were. They were going to go to the Final Four, in my opinion, and Arizona is going to the Final Four.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay. But we got to do line by line just for the people that are paying attention. So who do you have Arizona playing in the second round?

[Bob Ryan]

I've got them, and I've got them playing Purdue. I mean, Arkansas.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay, but that's still. We've still skipped around. We've still skipped around. Who do you have? Villanova, Utah State.

[Bob Ryan]

I'm Sorry. Yeah. Wisconsin. Well, I got Wisconsin over High Point.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Right.

[Bob Ryan]

So they're going to beat Wisconsin. They're going to beat Wisconsin.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay, well, what. What do you have with Villanova? Utah State.

[Bob Ryan]

Well, I've got Villain. I got Utah State.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay. So that's what I'm doing. I'm going line by line here.

[Bob Ryan]

Yeah, I got. I got Utah State.

[Tony Kornheiser]

All right. BYU against the play against Texas.

[Bob Ryan]

I've got BYU definitely in that one. And then against Gonzaga.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay.

[Bob Ryan]

Over Kennesaw State and Gonzaga beating BYU when they play.

[Tony Kornheiser]

And who do you have with Missouri? Miami.

[Bob Ryan]

I have Miami. That's a toss up in my head. No, no reason. Just Missouri, Miami. I've got Miami. Who will face Purdue? Who will beat Queens, which is. Everybody's learning is not in this. Not in New York City.

[Tony Kornheiser]

No, I had to learn that myself. It's in North Carolina. And you have. You have Purdue beating North beating Gonzaga.

[Bob Ryan]

I do have Purdue beating Gonzaga.

[Tony Kornheiser]

And you have Arizona coming out into the final.

[Bob Ryan]

I do. Arizona coming out of that bracket.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Let's go down the Michigan line. You have Georgia, St. Louis. Who do you have?

[Bob Ryan]

I have St. Louis. I'm giving them some props. I've got St. Louis over Georgia. Yes.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Texas Tech, Akron.

[Bob Ryan]

There's my 413. No, I'm sorry, that's one of my five. That's my 512. You got to find a 512. And I picked. And this is the one I settled on. Aquanova, Texas Tech.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay.

[Bob Ryan]

The Zips. I love the nickname. I think maybe that was the final determination was I'm going with the Zips

[Tony Kornheiser]

and you have Alabama. If they can field a team against Hofstra from Long Island. Who do you have in that one?

[Bob Ryan]

That's a very good. You know, I've got. I should have. Maybe I should have gone with Hofstra, but I do. I went with Alabama, but I went with the chalk on this one. Although they're in turmoil, Alabama and. And that guy down there is a mess. And. And they got to. They got to do something about that. But that's a story for another.

[Tony Kornheiser]

This is not the first time that they've lost players to the law. Tennessee against Miami. Ohio, we got.

[Bob Ryan]

I got the Vols. I. I'd love to pick Miami, but I got the Vols. I have a lot of respect for Rick Barnes and. And that team, and so I've got. I got to pick them.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Virginia, right? State.

[Bob Ryan]

Virginia. They're lurking. They're lurking, but I got them over

[Tony Kornheiser]

Wright State and Kentucky. Santa Clara.

[Bob Ryan]

Well, this is an interesting game. Clearly. I know that so many people are saying Kentucky could either A, go on a run or B, get knocked out in the first round. I agree with that. And I'm going to go. I'm knocking them out. I'm going with Santa Clara.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay.

[Bob Ryan]

And that's a shaky pick, believe me, but I'm going with that.

[Tony Kornheiser]

And then you have that ending because you have Iowa State winning.

[Bob Ryan]

Yeah, I got Iowa State.

[Tony Kornheiser]

What about Tennessee, Virginia?

[Bob Ryan]

I've got. I've got Devals to beat Virginia. I've got Devolves beating Virginia and Akron.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Alabama.

[Bob Ryan]

Well, Akron, I got. I got Alabama.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I got Bama and Michigan. St. Louis got Michigan and Michigan. Alabama,

[Bob Ryan]

Michigan. I got Michigan advancing to that. That.

[Tony Kornheiser]

And then they're out. Then they're out.

[Bob Ryan]

And then they're out. I got Iowa State beating Michig.

[Tony Kornheiser]

All right, let's go to the other side. Let's start with Duke, the hardest bracket by a mile in this whole thing. So I go.

[Bob Ryan]

It is a killer bracket.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Go line by line with me.

[Bob Ryan]

Got Duke over. Over Jerry McNamara's Sienna. Boys first. I've got Ohio State, TCU, the 8, 9 game. I'm going with the. With the chalk for you, Tony. The eight over the nine.

[Musical Guest / Singer]

Ooh.

[Bob Ryan]

Isn't that dangerous? Oh, yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay.

[Bob Ryan]

Oh, God. I cannot believe that anybody would argue that 8 and 9 isn't a toss up by definition, by the way this thing works. Anyway, now we got. Here's one. I got my 11 over six. I got Florida over six here. South Florida. I mean, 11 over six. South Florida over Louisville.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Who do you have with St. John's Northern Iowa.

[Bob Ryan]

I've got St. John's I'm pretty big on the. On the Red Storm. Yes.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay.

[Bob Ryan]

Kansas Cal Baptist is interesting in both men's and women's, and they've got a dynamic little guard that none of us knew about until now. But I got Kansas winning that game

[Tony Kornheiser]

and Michigan State, North Dakota State.

[Bob Ryan]

Michigan State is another lurker. They're a team that could do a lot. I got them over North Dakota State. I. This is. I'm an Izzo believer. And they're. They have attributes of many of the fine Michigan State teams.

[Tony Kornheiser]

How about ucla, San Francisco, Central Florida?

[Bob Ryan]

I got. I got ucla, but I. That's how. Twin flip in my head. Okay, but. But I'm going. But I got ucla.

[Tony Kornheiser]

The. The next round in this particular bracket has the most loaded names of any. It's just unbelievable how many of these teams have won multiple national championships or their Coaches have done the same thing. Duke, Ohio State.

[Bob Ryan]

Well, we've got. I got Shire.

[Greg Garcia]

Over.

[Bob Ryan]

Over. Well, who's Ohio State now? Okay, I got Duke. I got Duke going.

[Tony Kornheiser]

St. John's Kansas. Big game.

[Bob Ryan]

Oh, boy. How about that one? Yeah, I got St. John's Kansas, and I got St. John's I'm a Believer in how they're playing right now.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay, South Florida, Michigan State.

[Bob Ryan]

I got Michigan State.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay, UCLA with, I don't know, 50 wins against UConn, which is probably third or fourth now that they've had three different coaches win it. UCLA, UConn.

[Bob Ryan]

I've got UConn. And once again, it's. It's not with its firm conviction, But I've got UConn, I think. Yes. UConn, period.

[Tony Kornheiser]

All right, Duke, St. John's Duke, St.

[Bob Ryan]

John's I got the Dukes, and I know they have their injury situation. I know that. But still some I can see. But one of the injured isn't Boozer. They got Boozer, and I'm going to stay. They're going to pull it out.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Michigan State, yukon.

[Bob Ryan]

I got UConn. Yes. I just got UConn. I. They. But that's a. That's a terrific matchup. I love. I got. But I got UConn.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Duke, Yukon.

[Bob Ryan]

I got Duke. I'm gonna think they're gonna. But I know. I understand how precarious it is with the injury, but I got Duke.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay, we'll go to the bottom. Florida against Prairie View.

[Bob Ryan]

Florida, of course.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Clemson, Iowa. Clemson, Iowa.

[Bob Ryan]

That's a. That's a murky one. I mean, I. There's. I got Iowa, but it's. I don't know. Just because that's a metal coin flip. That's. Of course, that's a nine over an eight, which. Okay, there you go.

[Tony Kornheiser]

It's not an upset for you. We understand that. Vanderbilt. Vanderbilt. McNeese.

[Bob Ryan]

Oh, Vanderbilt. I'm a van. I like that team.

[Tony Kornheiser]

And Nebraska, which has never won a game ever in the ncaa, is Nebraska against Troy.

[Bob Ryan]

I think it's going to maintain itself. That's my big. That's my big upset pick, Troy. That's my. That's my 13 over 4, Troy.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay.

[Bob Ryan]

And I don't. I'm not a believer. Nebraska started off great, but I don't. They have. They've forfeited trust. I don't. I don't think you can trust them.

[Tony Kornheiser]

North Carolina in a position to be upset by VCU. Who you got?

[Bob Ryan]

I got VCU. It's another 11 over 6. I. I'm not believer in this Carolina team and, and vcu, their history. They have been there. There's something there that. That's a very sneaky program. And this not the first time they've been as we know. And I think this is typical situation for them. I think they're going to win.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay, Illinois, Penn.

[Bob Ryan]

That's a. It could be a very interesting game if Penn placed the way they did and by the way, was a terrific championship game. The Iowa. I mean, the Ivy League should have stood very proud last week with Penn. But I got Illinois that, Illinois that towering Illinois, the, the Illinois Central Europeans and all that. The big boys. I got Illinois.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay, St. Mary's Texas A&M, seven over ten.

[Bob Ryan]

I'm sticking with the seven. I'm sticking with. I'm a. I'm a big believer in Randy BENNETT, Always in St. Mary's and, and so I think, yeah, I got.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I like them over A and M. Okay, Florida, Iowa.

[Bob Ryan]

I got Florida. Simple as that.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Vanderbilt. Troy, I assume you have Vanderbilt.

[Bob Ryan]

I do have Vanderbilt over Troy, yes. No question.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Vcu, Illinois.

[Bob Ryan]

I got Illinois, but it wouldn't shock me, but I got. If VCU went.

[Tony Kornheiser]

But I've got Illinois and St. Mary's Houston.

[Bob Ryan]

Well, I got Houston. I'm. I'm a believer in Houston.

[Tony Kornheiser]

All right, Florida. Vanderbilt.

[Bob Ryan]

I got Florida. Once again, I. But I wouldn't be shocked, but I do have Florida, I think. Yeah, just period. I think I got to go with them.

[Tony Kornheiser]

And I think you probably have Houston to play Florida.

[Bob Ryan]

I certainly do.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That game is in Houston. What is that. How is that possible?

[Bob Ryan]

No, it's. It just goes all the way back, you know, 60 years when UCLA was playing home games. And it can happen at it's. And we've had circumstances where Kansas was playing in and, you know, home, close to home. It can happen, but I'm sure people are complaining about it. I don't doubt that.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Who you got? You got Houston at home or Florida?

[Bob Ryan]

Yep, I got Houston. You got Houston? Yes, I got Houston advancing.

[Greg Garcia]

Yes.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay, so now we have Duke. Houston, who played last year, as did Florida. Houston. Duke. Houston. Houston knocked him out last year. Who wins this one?

[Bob Ryan]

I got Duke beating Houston, but, yeah, I'm sticking with him. Once again, all contingent, but I see Boozer carrying him all the way.

[Tony Kornheiser]

And Arizona, Iowa State, Arizona.

[Bob Ryan]

Should be a terrific game, but I'm sticking with Arizona.

[Tony Kornheiser]

And who you win? Who's your winner?

[Bob Ryan]

It's Arizona. I am crowning the Wildcats.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay.

[Bob Ryan]

Tucson. Arizona. Tommy Lloyd. I know that they've been disappointing their fans by years knocking on the lock and knocking on the door and not getting in. And I'm going to say that this is the time that the door will open.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Arizona, I think, I think I like Arizona too, but I will like Arizona.

[Bob Ryan]

So I got a chalky final four. Yeah, two ones and two ones and two twos. But I've got what I call Tony the Lurkers. I mentioned that a few times, but Virginia, Illinois, Michigan State, Michigan State, Michigan, Yukon, Illinois and Florida. Yeah, those are my lurkers.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay, Bob, thank you as always. We hope you win.

[Greg Garcia]

Yep.

[Bob Ryan]

Well, I don't have a great emotional stake in anybody this year. My, my one was hoping that Miami or Ohio could shut some people up. And they did. And that's my satisfaction. That's my satisfaction.

[Tony Kornheiser]

They will remember this year in Oxford, Ohio for 50 years. It's a great year. They should be applauded. Even if they had lost last night. They should be applauded and the committee was wrong to stick them in a play in just wrong.

[Bob Ryan]

It's gonna be a fun few days to be, you know, be out there on that campus. So good for them.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Thanks, Bob.

[Bob Ryan]

Okay, go to him.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Bob Ryan, boys and girls, quintessential American sports writer. We will take a break. We will come back with Jeff Ma. I'm Tony Kornheiser.

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[Tony Kornheiser]

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This is the Tony Kornheiser Show.

[Bob Ryan]

Tony Kornheiser show.

[Tony Kornheiser]

This is sent to us by Rob Scheffler. Not Scotty Scheffler, but Rob Scheffler said. I'm enclosing some original music from Sons of Town hall, an enchanting folk duo featuring my talented friend David Berkley of Santa Fe and his bandmate Ben Parker. Of London. These tracks are from their new album of Ghosts and Gods. They're moving contemplative folk songs that harken to a simpler time, a time when music and art was created exclusively by humans and when phones didn't auto update while you were asleep. I believe David is a kindred spirit to you, an author, thinker, troubadour who brightens our lives with his creative gift. Again, this is Sons of Town Hall. It is called Antarctica. And Michael, if independent groups and artists want to send us their music to play on the show, how do they do it?

[Producer/Assistant]

Send us your music by emailing it to jinglesneycornheisershow.com and with it being the end of brackets week, I'd like to share again that we have the tournament challenge through ESPN search Tony Kornheiser show 2026. That's capital T, capital K, capital S. And there's a space between. It is password protected, but it's right there for you to cut and paste if you'd like. We have a few thousand if you're looking for the correct group, but please join along. And then if you search TK show bigs with the year, you can follow along with the picks I believe that we've shared on the show.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's nice. Lovely. Sons of Town Hall. I haven't heard of folk group in a long time. Very good. They play in Jeff Ma, who's up at a ridiculous hour for us, and we're very grateful for that. And before we get into your bracket, I just, I want to ask. This is like, it seems to me that somebody who does what you do, who narrows things down and says this on this board is the only game worth betting, it seems to me. To have to do an entire bracket must not be pleasant for you. Right? Because there are a lot of games you don't care about.

[Jeff Ma]

Well, it's just a different mentality. Right? I mean, doing the brackets is a game exactly as you're saying. No one's really doing brackets to make money. There's obviously so much randomness attached to this. It's one game. There's no spread, all that kind of stuff. Yeah, I mean, I think doing brackets is fun. It's definitely not something that I would do to try to make money. We actually do these things called Calcuttas, which are much more analytical. You auction off all the teams and there's a big dynamic pot based on what you auction. And I actually wrote an article for ESPN the Magazine about them about 15 years ago.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I have heard of Calcuttas I have not been involved in them personally, although I've been in tournaments where there are Calcuttas. There's an enormous amount of money, and it doesn't seem. It's fluid, right? It's not like when you sign up, somebody says to you, oh, it's going to be $63,400. It's fluid as it goes.

[Jeff Ma]

Yeah, you basically have different consortiums that every team, they accrue value based on how they do in the tournament. You know, like, if they win one game, it might be half a percentage of the pot. If they win two games, it might be 2%. And then you basically auction off every single team. So, you know, if someone ends up wanting to pay $115,000 for Duke, that. That makes the pot $115,000 more. So the pots can be. Sometimes some of these Calcutta pots can be in the millions of dollars.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, they're scary for somebody like me, they're way too scary. I stay away from them. All right, let's go down the bracket. Let's go down the Arizona bracket. Let's start with that. Any upsets at all in the first

[Jeff Ma]

round, See the Arizona bracket, top right. Sign that. Let's see. I got Utah State over Villanova, which we know is not a upset.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Ryan is very, very specific now. Now we're down to 413, but we're gonna.

[Jeff Ma]

We're gonna take High Point over Wisconsin. Wisconsin is a team with that shoots a lot of threes, so a lot of variants. Variance is good when you're the underdog. Variance is not as good when you're the favorite. So I'm going to take them, and then I'm going to take Missouri because it's kind of a home game over Miami.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay, so you will have Arkansas move into the second round. BYU move into the second round. Gonzaga, Missouri and Purdue. Let's go one more here and then we'll go to another. Now we'll take this bracket all the way out. All right, Arizona. Utah State. Take it all the way out to the final four.

[Jeff Ma]

Arizona.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Mm.

[Jeff Ma]

Arkansas.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Right.

[Jeff Ma]

Gonzaga and Purdue.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay. And Arizona. Arkansas.

[Jeff Ma]

Arizona. Arkansas. Arizona.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay. At the bottom, Gonzaga. Purdue.

[Jeff Ma]

Gonzaga.

[Tony Kornheiser]

See west coast prejudice. West coast prejudice. They don't play anybody.

[Jeff Ma]

You realize Arizona's in the west also, right?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, but Wilbon lives there, so it's the Midwest. Because it's Wilbon. It's in the Midwest. Arizona. Gonzaga.

[Jeff Ma]

Midwest. Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Arizona. Gonzaga.

[Greg Garcia]

Gonzaga.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Really? You're not scared away?

[Jeff Ma]

Well, hopefully they get healthy by then. Right, That's. That's. That's the hope.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. I. The last two months of the season, they play maybe two good games, and then you have to play five good teams in, you know, in two weeks. I think it's too hard for them. I. That's me. All right, let's go to the Michigan bracket. Take us the first round in that one.

[Jeff Ma]

Okay. Let's find The Michigan bracket. St. Louis over Georgia. Not an upset, not a 9 over an 8. Miami of Ohio over Tennessee.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's an upset.

[Jeff Ma]

That's for sure an upset. And that's it. The rest is all chalky.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So you have Texas Tech, you have Alabama, presuming they can field a team that's not in jail, you have Virginia and you have Kentucky. A lot of people picking Santa Clara. You're going to stay with Kentucky?

[Jeff Ma]

I am.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay. Michigan. St. Louis.

[Jeff Ma]

I'm going to go with Michigan.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay. Underneath that, Texas Tech, Alabama.

[Jeff Ma]

Alabama.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Miami. Of Ohio and Virginia.

[Jeff Ma]

Virginia. And then Iowa State.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay. Michigan, Alabama.

[Jeff Ma]

Michigan.

[Tony Kornheiser]

And at the bottom, uva, Iowa State, Iowa State. Everybody loves Iowa State. I have to say that because they were in the toughest conference all year. Big 12 was the toughest conference. Michigan, Iowa State, Michigan. Michigan. Big Ten team. Okay, let's go to the other side. Let's go to the Duke bracket. What do you got in the first round?

[Jeff Ma]

Okay, so on the top we're going to go Duke. Let's see.

[Greg Garcia]

I.

[Jeff Ma]

Okay, sorry, I'm not looking at the right first round. TCU over Ohio State. So again, another nine over eight. I'm going to. I'm taking Northern Iowa, really, okay. To beat St. John's and Northern Iowa really is going to slow this game down. Play great defense. St. John's has a little bit of trouble sometimes scoring, so maybe an ugly, slow game that Northern Iowa squeaks out.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay.

[Jeff Ma]

And then the rest are all chalk.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Kansas, Louisville, Michigan State, UCLA and UConn. I. Duke. TCU.

[Jeff Ma]

Duke.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay.

[Jeff Ma]

Even though. Even though Steve Sands. I was very happy here. Steve Sands watched 21, by the way. And I can't believe you buried the lead and didn't want to talk more about that phenomenal movie.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Well, we actually did an extra five minutes that. That's available to subscription people. I'm making that up like the.

[Jeff Ma]

It's like a B side.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, I'm making that up completely.

[Jeff Ma]

DVD extras.

[Tony Kornheiser]

He loved it. He loved it. And by the way, Steve Sands, it's not like he doesn't know everybody, because he knows everybody. All right, Northern Iowa. Kansas.

[Jeff Ma]

Kansas.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Setting up Duke. Kansas. Louisville, Michigan State.

[Bob Ryan]

Louisville.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Ooh. Ooh. You got Pitino and Izzo going out in this thing pretty early. UCLA. UConn.

[Jeff Ma]

UCLA.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Oh, and you got Danny Hurley going out. Danny Hurley's gonna be angry. He's angry at everything. It's okay. He's always angry. This is not a bracket. This is the hardest bracket, this one. And this is not one that anybody else has. Duke, Kansas. Duke, Louisville, ucla.

[Jeff Ma]

Ucla.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Do you like Mick Cronin? Do you like him?

[Jeff Ma]

I do. I think he's a very good coach. I mean, he's obviously fiery and angry, but he's. I think he's a very good coach.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay, Duke, ucla to get to the Final Four.

[Jeff Ma]

Duke.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Duke in the Final Four. All right, last bracket. The Florida bracket. What do you got?

[Jeff Ma]

See, upsets wise. Let me try to. Sorry. It's hard to do this in an app.

[Tony Kornheiser]

You know, most of us have things.

[Producer/Assistant]

I have to print it out.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, you got to print it out.

[Jeff Ma]

I tried to print it out, but the printed outs only and on the ESPN app only gives you their logos.

[Greg Garcia]

It's very, very weird.

[Jeff Ma]

And I don't know all these logos. Sorry. Let me find this. This is the South.

[Producer/Assistant]

Florida.

[Tony Kornheiser]

South. Yes, Florida.

[Jeff Ma]

Okay. Iowa over Clemson.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay.

[Jeff Ma]

And that's the only upset I have in that one.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So you have Vanderbilt, you have Nebraska, you have unc, you have Illinois breaking my son's heart. And you have St. Mary's right.

[Jeff Ma]

Mm.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay. Florida. Iowa.

[Jeff Ma]

See Florida.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay. Vanderbilt, Nebraska. Vanderbilt, UNC, Illinois, Illinois and St. Mary's Houston. St. Mary's that's a big upset. Most everybody has Houston going all the way to the eight. That's a big upset. Okay, Florida, Vanderbilt, Florida and Illinois. St. Mary's Illinois. And finally, to get to the Final Four, Florida. Illinois.

[Jeff Ma]

Illinois.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Illinois. Wow. So you've got two Big Ten teams. Yes. You got Michigan and Illinois. You got Duke, and you have Gonzaga. Okay, Duke. Illinois. Jeff. Duke and Gonzaga. Michigan.

[Jeff Ma]

Michigan and Duke.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Michigan. They played already. They played in Washington, D.C. and Duke won a very, very good close game. Who you got?

[Jeff Ma]

Michigan.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Oh, okay. Did you see the game in D.C. that was honest.

[Jeff Ma]

I did, actually. I did.

[Tony Kornheiser]

It's a pretty good game.

[Jeff Ma]

I didn't see it live, but, I mean, I saw it on television. But it was a. It was a good game.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That was good game.

[Jeff Ma]

Had a great game. But I feel like you watched that game, and it felt like Duke did everything perfectly to win that game, whereas Michigan left some on the table.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I'm not going to disagree with that. I thought my whole view of the season changed with that game. I was thinking Michigan was going to win that game and that, you know, that Duke would be a good top 10 team. But when Duke won that game, even though I agree with you that maybe in a rematch, that doesn't happen, but that for me said, okay, Duke's totally legit. They are the number one team in the country now. That's how I felt.

[Jeff Ma]

Yeah, I think that's right. But I mean, again, this is. I think these three teams, Arizona, Michigan, and Duke are all have a relatively good chance to win this. I think Florida is a step below them. I think, generally speaking, most people are, you know, placing too much weight on what happened last year, meaning they think there's a really good chance that all four number ones will win and be in the Final Four. Again, we talked about this. We had Ken Pomeroy on our podcast this week.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Is he good? Because his stuff is great. Is he good to talk to?

[Jeff Ma]

He's good. You know, his background. He was a meteorologist. He decided to do this. He thought, you know, the stats for basketball weren't right. He started doing it. We had him on. But we talked a little bit about what do you think the chances, Tony, of all four number ones making it this year are? Like, what would you say the percentage chances?

[Tony Kornheiser]

25%, 30%?

[Jeff Ma]

No, it's much closer to about 4 or 5%.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Really?

[Bob Ryan]

Yeah.

[Jeff Ma]

Mathematically speaking, if you just look at the odds of the teams, like, based on what the market even says, in terms of what the odds of each team making the Final Four are, it's much closer to, you know, 4 or 5%.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So last year was a very freakish situation.

[Greg Garcia]

100%.

[Jeff Ma]

And again, like, as humans, we always place too much probability on something we can imagine or something we remember. And in this case, that's all four number ones making it. And so that's why people are, you know, overweighting this.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's. That's interesting. Do you and Rufus put out an official bracket?

[Jeff Ma]

No, we don't.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay, don't look.

[Jeff Ma]

You know, this will be, like you said, that's not our game.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Right. That's what I thought. But thank you for doing this. Thank you. All right, take care, Jeff.

[Bob Ryan]

I guess.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Jeff Mob. Boys and girls, we will take a break. And Greg Garcia and I don't know where this is going.

[Producer/Assistant]

Buckle up.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, I have no idea. Longwood is not in it, so he's going to have to find something other than Longwood. Yeah, we'll see. Your guess is as good as mine. I'm Tony Kornheiser. It's Charles Barkley here with Wayfair, and let me tell you, game day is serious business at my house. If I'm grilling, chilling, and watching hoops, my outdoor setup better be ready to play. That's where Wayfair wins. From patio seating and umbrellas to grills and grill accessories, Wayfair's got it all, and it shows up fast. I'm talking fast and easy delivery. So level up your grill game and your outdoor chill games and head to Wayfarer.com to get your outdoor space ready for the season.

[Bob Ryan]

Wayfair. Every style, every home.

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[Tony Kornheiser]

You're listening to the Tony Kornheiser Show. The Tony Kornheiser Show. This is Mission Road. We played a couple of their songs yesterday, right? Oh, no, I'm sorry. I haven't. That's. That is my fault. This is still Sons of Town Hall. The Lion. I thought you were going to play Mission. You wrote on my notes, mission Road today. This is Sons. Oh, that's fine. I am so sorry. That's fine. Well, you have to make it up to Paulie Coconuts if you're in Nashville. They're playing tonight at the Nashville Troubadour. Yeah. And I don't know where Sons of Town hall is playing tonight. Not sure, but they're very good. They're very good. This is called the Lion's Ball. But I will make it up to you, Paulie, for sure. Okay. All right. And it plays in Greg Garcia. And we. We sort of get out of the way. Greg does not have Longwood this year, so I don't know what he's going to do. But before we get to the actual picks. How is your new career? How is stand up comedy? And what. What have you done lately?

[Greg Garcia]

Well, let's call it a hobby instead of a career because I think I'm in the hole a couple, like 20 grand probably.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay.

[Greg Garcia]

Flying around. I've yet to be paid. I still have my amateur status.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay.

[Greg Garcia]

I mean, I'm in Las Vegas. We just did three nights open. I was opening up for Bargetzi at the Win here, and it was great, man. I'm having a. I'm having an absolute blast. I gotta tell you, I'm embarrassed how excited I am and how much fun I'm having doing it. It's so much fun.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Are you. And I don't know if this matters. Do you feel you're getting better at it? Are you attuned? Are you writing things now because you have a better sense of crowd?

[Greg Garcia]

Yes. I mean, I definitely feel I'm getting better at it. And a lot of that has to do with just getting more comfortable. I'm definitely writing new material all the time, so I'm not just going up there and doing the same stuff. And it's always a thrill when the new material works. I will say I had some family that lives in Vegas, and they came and actually went to lunch with. I had such a good time.

[Bob Ryan]

I didn't.

[Greg Garcia]

I didn't know some of them as well as others, and we had such good time. And they came last night and I told Nate when I got off stage, I said, man, that was the best set I've ever had. The audience was fantastic. I felt great. I don't know if I've ever done it better. That was so much fun. And then they came backstage afterwards, and my mother's cousin looked at me and she said, that was. That was pretty good. So that's what family's for. Yeah, that is what family.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. Do you want to tell people when you're playing in dc?

[Greg Garcia]

Oh, I think we'll get that in the bracket, Tony.

[Jeff Ma]

Okay.

[Greg Garcia]

Gonna be all about that.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay, fine. All right, let's go cover that, then we're gonna start.

[Greg Garcia]

Listen, Tony, let me just tell you. First was the morning before the tourney. And all through the house, not a creature was stirring because Tony flushed the mouth. The brackets were taped to the refrigerator with care. It's 5:30 in Las Vegas. I'm still in my underwear. The littles were nestled all snug in their beds while visions of David Aldridge moments danced in their heads. And with the last picks of the week, it's finally, my time. And just like last year, I've decided to rhyme.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Good. Good. That's good. All right, you want to take us through the Arizona top, right?

[Greg Garcia]

Well, let's just do the upsets first.

[Tony Kornheiser]

All right, Go ahead.

[Greg Garcia]

And, Tony, by the end of this segment, you'll be sick of listening to me talk. So as a treat, in the Arizona brackets, first round, I have nothing but chalk.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Nothing but chalk. Okay? Villanova, Arizona, Villanova, Wisconsin, Arkansas, byu, Gonzaga, Miami, Purdue. So do you want to. You want to continue that out or you want to go to another bracket?

[Greg Garcia]

Michigan. Let's go to the upsets, and then we'll go back.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay, that's fine. Go ahead. Michigan.

[Greg Garcia]

Michigan. Alabama is good, but without their jailbirds. I'll put all the money I have on the Hofstra flying D words.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay, good.

[Greg Garcia]

And that's the only upset there.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So you have Georgia, you have Texas Tech, you have Hofstra, the school of my youth. You have Tennessee over Miami. Ohio, you got University of Virginia, and you've got Kentucky. Do you want to go first round in all, or do you want to take some out?

[Greg Garcia]

Let's go. Florida.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Go ahead.

[Greg Garcia]

Bracket upsets. VCU will come out spicy like paprika, Old Bay and saffron. And North Carolina's defense will be less effective than children's Afro.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, children's Afro. Very good. Very good.

[Greg Garcia]

And then. Oh, I'm sorry.

[Bob Ryan]

The Duke.

[Greg Garcia]

So the Duke bracket upset. That's why I got one there as well. This next pick makes me so nervous, I think I might puke. But I gotta go with Sienna because my boy, Steve Sands, hates Duke.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Oh, Sienna. Okay.

[Greg Garcia]

All right, Now I'm ready to go through the Arizona bracket.

[Tony Kornheiser]

All right, let me just put all these things down. St. John's you've got Kansas, you've got Louisville, you've got Michigan State, you've got. And ucla. Now we'll go through the brackets. Let's go through the Arizona bracket first.

[Greg Garcia]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay. Go ahead. Arizona. Villanova.

[Greg Garcia]

Arizona is hot. Villanova stands no chance. They will run out of gas, like they forgot to pay in advance.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay, Wisconsin. Arkansas.

[Greg Garcia]

Arkansas will scratch Wisconsin like they're a bad itch. This win will be more delicious than a turkey club.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I love that sandwich. Byu, Gonzaga, two religious schools.

[Greg Garcia]

Yeah. Gonzaga will put BYU on ice. They'll look like they're in the same fridge. And the Zags will come out looking more beautiful than Tony's matchbooks at Framebridge.

[Tony Kornheiser]

They look so nice. They look really nice. Miami. Purdue.

[Greg Garcia]

Purdue beats Miami. They just can't compete for them. This game will be harder than a yard of score. Snow. Crete.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Snow. Crete is impossible. You want to take this out? You want to go take this out to the Final Four.

[Greg Garcia]

Let's go. Arizona. Arkansas.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Go ahead.

[Greg Garcia]

Arkansas can't compete with Arizona's defense in high gear. The lane will be clogged. More clogged than Tony's right ear.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yes, it's still. Still, still the left ear now clogged as well. Now that I have this call. Gonzaga, Purdue.

[Greg Garcia]

Gonzaga runs circles around Bertu with nearly perfect play design. Purdue will be more confused than Wilbon watching last year's combine.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's funny. And Arizona. Gonzaga to get to the Final Four.

[Greg Garcia]

Arizona takes the win with one last fatal shot. And Gonzaga disappears like the egg harbor bagel spot.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. Poor Joe Linardi.

[Musical Guest / Singer]

Gone.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Poor Joe Linardi. Okay, then I will go to Michigan, take Michigan out to the Final Four. Go ahead.

[Jeff Ma]

Yeah.

[Greg Garcia]

Michigan dominates this game with Georgia port. Georgia is gone. And if you doubt I know what I'm talking about. I've won this thing as many times as fake Frank Braun.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, just like Spike who goes to Georgia. Texas Tech. Hofstra.

[Greg Garcia]

Texas Tech will prevail and Hofstra's feelings will get hurt. This game will be uglier than a 1A BET sweatshirt.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's really. That is so awful. That is so. How ugly is that?

[Greg Garcia]

I don't need a little Johnny Carson audience to help me with this one. But fellas, that sweatshirt is so ugly.

[Tony Kornheiser]

How ugly is he. Is it.

[Greg Garcia]

It's so ugly. When Jason gave it to Tony, Vegas set the line at five minutes before Tony gave it away. I took the under and it was a three lobster night.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, that's good. All right.

[Greg Garcia]

Tennessee, uva, Virginia will run circles around the Voles. The Cavaliers will say they can't even see us. And Tennessee will be more confused than Tony at a McDonald's Kia.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, I couldn't. Yeah, that was terrible. Kentucky, Iowa State.

[Greg Garcia]

This one will be bad. Iowa State comes in like a torpedo. It'll be harder to watch than Luke Russert in a Hallmark movie gazebo.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Michigan, Texas Tech.

[Greg Garcia]

It's a hard fought battle, but Michigan wins by a sliver. Texas Tech gives their best, but like the US Post Office with a check, they fail to deliver.

[Tony Kornheiser]

They do. It's just awful. It's the end of civilization. Uva, Iowa State, Virginia wins at the

[Greg Garcia]

buzzer with a triple court flame twister. Extra butter. That's hot. And to translate for my buddy Tony Kornheiser, that. That's just jump shot.

[Tony Kornheiser]

You just listen to this show. Far too much. Far too much. Michigan, UVA to go to the final four.

[Greg Garcia]

I represent the Littles, Tony.

[Bob Ryan]

That's what I do.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yes.

[Greg Garcia]

Virginia will not only win, they'll cover the spread. They'll. They're shooting. Will be tastier than a loaf of Liz's bread.

[Tony Kornheiser]

It's great. Really. All right, we move over to what is now the Sienna bracket. Sienna, Ohio State.

[Greg Garcia]

Ohio State will eat from Sienna for dinner and maybe even dessert. This is another one that will be uglier than a wannabet sweatshirt. Guys. How ugly that guy sweatshirt is so ugly.

[Tony Kornheiser]

How ugly is it?

[Greg Garcia]

It's so ugly. When Tony draped it over the Statue of Liberty on PTI, it solved the immigration problem.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Truly bad. All right. St. John's Kansas.

[Greg Garcia]

I have no choice but to take St. John's as I sit here above a casino because I'm the idiot who bought a racehorse with Bargetzi and Rick Pitino.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's right. That's right. Patino very heavy into that. Louisville, Michigan State.

[Greg Garcia]

Michigan takes this game. There's just no debate. Louisville doesn't even see it coming. Like an iPhone update.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. Middle of the night, killing your phone. For the next six weeks, UCLA, UConn, Battle of the U's.

[Greg Garcia]

U of Con comes out hot. Like UCLA is their nemesis. They explode on the scene like a big Bombo Genesis.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Bombo Genesis. Ohio State.

[Greg Garcia]

St. John's Patino will advance, and he'll do so with grace. Did I mention it's been a year and our horse has still yet to race?

[Tony Kornheiser]

But he's got the white suit. Patino go to the track in the white suit. Oh, yeah, right.

[Greg Garcia]

We keep getting texts from the trainer saying he's hanging in there. You don't want to touch that.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Don't know if that's great for a horse. UConn, Michigan State, U of Con will

[Greg Garcia]

come out strong and put Michigan on ice. This victory will taste sweeter than chili on rice.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Do you like chili on rice? Am I the only one?

[Greg Garcia]

I've never had chili on rice. I like chili just on chili. So I might try it.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, I think it's pretty good. St. John's Yukon. It's a fourth time this year.

[Greg Garcia]

Yeah, I got to stick with Patina because he's part of my crew. By the end of this month, I think our horse might be glue.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. So there you go. Florida, Clemson.

[Greg Garcia]

Florida beats Clemson. And I'm sorry to say I'll lose by more points than I did playing golf with Jason Day.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Who did he give you? 26? 7. Did he give you 24?

[Greg Garcia]

Me by 27. Gave me 27 by the end of the round. You're right. He beat me by 30.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Vanderbilt, Nebraska.

[Greg Garcia]

Vandy will storm the court like an E. F5 tornado. And Nebraska will look more disappointing than a front yard potato.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Those were. They didn't work. Vcu, Illinois.

[Greg Garcia]

Illinois takes the win. With their size, they just are too weighty. Poor VCU will look more nervous than Tony driving over 80.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Don't like to drive over 80. I wouldn't get in a waymo. That was driving over 5. St. Mary's Houston.

[Greg Garcia]

St. Mary's can't compete with Houston. They've got shooters, passers and an attacker. Their team is more versatile than a saltine cracker.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Do you like those? I love those.

[Greg Garcia]

I do like them. I like a Triscuit, but I like assaulting.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, I just really like them. Florida. Vandy.

[Greg Garcia]

Florida sends Vandy home even though Vandy's the best they've been in years. I'll be spending the night consoling Nate Barghesi. He'll be drowning in tears.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, that's his hometown school. He didn't go there, but it's just. Doesn't he always talk about going to junior college or community college?

[Greg Garcia]

He failed out of that, I think.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, it's good to know. It's good to know you can do well in America. Illinois. Houston.

[Greg Garcia]

Houston goes home with the win like they've done many times. Tony, I've been at this for hours and I might be running out of rhymes.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Florida. Houston. Get us to the final floor for.

[Greg Garcia]

Yeah, Florida takes out Houston because Florida is here to stay. They're sticking around my bracket longer than a snow pile in May.

[Tony Kornheiser]

St. John's Florida in the final four.

[Greg Garcia]

Florida beats my horse partner. I should admit that I used to think his name was Patina. By the way, please come see me April 2nd and 3rd at the Capital One Arena.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Oh, okay, good. April 2nd and 3rd, Capital One Arena. Greg Garcia and others. Yeah, and others. But the headliner for us is Greg. Arizona, uva.

[Greg Garcia]

Arizona beats Virginia. And as a Virginian, that makes me burn. But on the court, they do less than a Tony Kornheiser show. Intern.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, they plant the potatoes and shut up. Basically. Florida. Arizona for the big one.

[Greg Garcia]

Here we go. It's a hard fought game by both teams, but Arizona wins. There, I've said it for Florida. There's no trophy, no parade, no shop credit.

[Tony Kornheiser]

No shop Credit. I got $85. The other day I went on to a team. It was a scramble, right? It was a scramble. And I actually helped on four or five holes. And I was so thrilled. We finished third in gross. Finished third in gross.

[Producer/Assistant]

You birdied 14.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I birdied 14. Yeah, I was. I was. Yeah, it was really good because I, you know, I said to them, it's a scramble, so I can't hurt you. Maybe I can help you. And I ended up helping. I was really happy with that. All right. Are you gonna. Are you gonna play golf later today?

[Greg Garcia]

We played on Tuesday and Wednesday at the win. I actually played. Okay, we won. Me and Bargettzi played against a couple other guys. We won. And listen, before I go, Tony, I do need to say that Jason Lock and Fora is probably my favorite guest that you have on. He's incredibly smart, super informative, and most of all, he's hilarious. I love him and I want him to know if he hears us. I only kid the ones I love. That being said, Tony, that wannabe sweatshirt is so ugly.

[Tony Kornheiser]

How ugly is it, Greg?

[Greg Garcia]

That sweatshirt. That sweatshirt is so ugly I slept with it when I was at Frostburg.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Thank you, Greg. Talk soon.

[Greg Garcia]

Bye.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Greg Garcia, boys and girls, always a treat. We will come back with email and jingle. I'm Tony Kornheiser.

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[Tony Kornheiser]

you're listening to the Tony Kornheiser show. They're playing. Yeah, they're in the tournament Sports center. Yeah, the Missouri marching band is going to to be visible on television. But great to see if they broke the mailbag theme out. I don't think they will probably.

[Producer/Assistant]

TV timeout.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I don't think they will, but they should. You want to do the Bethesda Bagel ad, please? Yes, Bethesda Bagels, we love them. You will as well. Just go to Bethesda Bagels.com for the location in the DC area nearest you. Then pop on in and you'll be thrilled. And before we get to the mailbag, let me just say hey baby, won't you take a chance? Say that you'll let me have this dance and let's dance. Let's dance. We'll do the twist to stomp the mashed Potato too. Any old dance that you want to do. But let's dance. I think that's Chris Montez. It is indeed. Let's dance Chris Montez from 70 years ago. Thanks to our guests today. Bob Ryan, Jeff Ma, Greg Garcia. Thanks as well to today's sponsor sponsors. Remember you can listen to us on Apple podcast, Spotify and Oughtysee if you get show through Apple. Please leave us a review.

[Producer/Assistant]

You won't get this reference. I keep thinking with Bob Ryan. Upsets upset, you know 413 and not below Chapel Road. Hot to go.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I don't get that. Yeah, what is that?

[Producer/Assistant]

Just it was a song of the summer.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Oh, okay. Yeah, I don't know it at all but I'm old so I shouldn't know. It's not like Summer Song by Chad and Jeremy.

[Producer/Assistant]

Is it 413? What do you think it's going to be next year?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, 214. It keeps sliding 15 to 15 rather. Sorry. 3, 4, 3, 14.

[Producer/Assistant]

It always adds up to 17.

[Tony Kornheiser]

From Rick Devins with a Survivor update. I made it through another week. Still waiting for the large curd cottage cheese reward. Thanks for the support. He's still on it. Keep it going Rick. 4% love it. From Zeb Mellet in Barrington, Rhode Island. Steve Sands mentioned his first TV job in salary in Scottsbluff, Nebraska. And I thought, I know that town, that job and that salary. As I also started my broadcast career in Scottsbluff at the CBS affiliate KSTF. It was 1999. My yearly salary was $12,000, which means beers would have been on Mr. Sands at the 18th Street Bar and Grill to briefly catch myself up in other areas, I once served Neil Armstrong a hot fudge sundae at a poolside barbecue while working at a ranch in Wyoming during the summer of 1996 as an intern at WTTG, I broke up a near fight between D.C. tV sportscasters Rennie Knott and Brett Haber at Greg Garcia's alma mater, Frostburg State, during NFL training camp. What I always remember about that trip is Chick Hernandez lighting his cigar on a tiki torch behind the competing station set during their live shot on the 11 o' clock news. Doesn't get any better than Chip. Please tell Steve Kearns thanks and eat it. Dave Moran from a Marquette graduate in Kenosha, Wisconsin Prior to making the NCAA tourney, the most notable thing about Queen's University was that Jack McDowell served as its inaugural baseball coach when The Charlotte Bay School ascended to NCAA status in 2019. You may remember Jack as the Yankee Flipper for his TK salute in the Bronx one night. I remember him as Blackjack McDowell. Oh, Black Jack. Great pitcher. Yeah. I remember him as a two time 20 game winner and Cy Young recipient for the Chicago White Sox. Because in addition to being a proud little. I am the Sox nerd on Twitter. Sox nerd. S O X N E R D that being said, I'd love to be the unofficial White Sox fan of the TK show. Yeah. Because Wilbon's not gonna do it. And Pope Leo hasn't gotten back to us on that, has he?

[Bob Ryan]

Not yet.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. From Bob, Ashley and you, Eugene, Oregon. Wednesday morning, I was on my way to Tocatee Golf Club, 45 miles east of the Willamette Valley when Tony asked Michael how the weather had been out here. It was 66 and sunny. Here are a couple of photos as proof. I'll happily provide future weather updates as needed.

[Producer/Assistant]

Yeah, they have Great for the Pinot.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, that's great. Yes, it is.

[Producer/Assistant]

I got an email from Dave. Justin, I got an email from Dave. After you received the package.

[Bob Ryan]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay, that's good. That's good. Very good. Yeah, from Justin, because it's beautiful what he did. He said, okay. So I come on Justin in St. Louis each year. I look forward to the week of shows and hearing the brackets of such illustrious guests as Steve Sands, Greg Garcia and Spike Braun. This year was no exception. But what caused me to nearly swerve off the road was hearing Phil's mom taking High Point University to the Elite Eight. High Point. Hey, wait, I know that school. I was just there for freshman orientation this past weekend. My daughter will be attending High Point University in the fall and has become a big college basketball fan. This year I want to take a second to welcome Phil's mom, a woman with great insight to the High Point family. We're glad to have her, at least until we play Gonzaga. Jeremy Wilson.

[Greg Garcia]

Hello.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I am making my first pilgrimage to the Masters for a Tuesday practice. So we need Michael's breakdown on the things to make sure to do and how to walk and see the course.

[Producer/Assistant]

Step one is to decide, do you want to walk the entire course or you want to just post up? And if you can look at the map, start to try and find where they have the crossings because there's a couple of pockets, particularly between eight and two, where you can just get stymied behind the, you know, behind the group's crossing and you lose about 15 minutes just trying to get to where you want to go. So take a look at the overhead first, okay?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay. There's good advice.

[Producer/Assistant]

When you go to the practice round, you'll they'll start to show you previews as to who's planning to go out on the course for the Tuesday practice round. If you're doing your shopping.it early, they let you ship from there. And if you have your car, you can go to the car, drop it off, come back.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Lovely. What are the great sandwiches that they serve there? Tomato cheese.

[Producer/Assistant]

Tomato cheese is a famous one. Egg salad is a sleeper. You got the Masters Club and But don't yeah, the breakfast is the hidden spot. So if you if you can get there early, go get breakfast and find a grandstand to go sit and enjoy the the the course Wakening Up From

[Tony Kornheiser]

Brian Sonnets While Wilbon was walking the streets of Chicago during the St. Patrick's Day parade, did he spot U.S. marshal Sam Gerard hunting a fugitive named Dr. Richard Kimball? From Joe in Pittsburgh, your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to try eating four saltine crackers in under a minute without drinking anything. This message will self destruct after you've read the following line Please tell my sister Kish to eat it and Could I be the official architect of the Tony Kornheiser Show? Yes, certainly. Patrick Sitter, Sioux Falls, South Dakota When I was a little kid, I used to put multiple saltine crackers in my mouth, chew them up, spit the moistened matter into my hands, roll the moistened matter into a bowl and throw it at carts. Summertime snowballed like flying vomit. I had a questionable childhood. This is why we love Patrick Sitter. This is why we love him. From Mark Pole, Louisville, Kentucky In Monday's pod, while talking with Steve Sands in reference to Iowa State making the Final four last in 1944. You said that was before me. Did we just establish a new way of defining time and eras? We're all familiar with BCE before Common Era, previously BCE before Christ. Do we now have BTK before Tony Kornheiser? As in wow, you saw that old guy play for the Knicks? He was btk. The one concern with this measurement is, some may argue BTK is the same as BCE and thus renders it redundant. From Scott Foster, not the referee in Manchester, Maine. Wilbot is coming to Maine. Does that mean we're in the Midwest now? You'll need to come up. I'll take you to play Augusta. Not that Augusta. Yeah, isn't Augusta the capital of Maine? I believe it is. It's probably open three months a year. Yes, maybe four. It's freezing up there so late May to early September is my guess. Yeah. Chuck Murphy, Columbia, Missouri, the home of the University of Missouri, Wilbourne is going to Maine this weekend. Is he meeting the Pope, Michael Jordan, Richard Dent and the other hall of Famers in his text chain to watch college basketball? How many TVs do you think they have set up? All the questions about Wilbone are just so wonderful. If you're out on your bike, tight, everyone, as always, do wear white. Sectionals at 33, one point down, five, four, three, two, one. Let her fly. In and out.

[Musical Guest / Singer]

Yeah.

[Greg Garcia]

Well, not a scowled.

[Musical Guest / Singer]

Antarctica. Is who we are. Antarctica. Is who we are. We're not afraid of anything. Come flowing, I come howling wind no man, no beast can turn us round no ghost, no God can stop us now. Antarctica. Is who we are. Antarctica. No, we won't fall oh, no, we won't fade nothing we'll break the bonds we made I'll give my heart, my strength, my soul to stand upon the last unknown we're not afraid of of anything. Come glory nights Come out and wind. No man, no beast can turn us around no ghost, no God can stop us now. No man, no beast can stop us now. No man, no beast can stop us now. Antarctica. Is who we are. Antarctica. Is who we are. Well, I don't know if we'll make it through the cold months. The wood is gone, the ground is frozen. Ain't it cruel? Half fast to God come turn his back on the eve of the harvest the heavens crack. Oh, hear me, St. Jerome, help me understand. Oh, help me, St. Jerome be a better man. When I left old London town My hands were clean, My pocket's full

[Tony Kornheiser]

and

[Musical Guest / Singer]

the path was shining. Oh, but who's to judge a man on days like these? Desperate times call for desperate means. Oh, hear me, St. Jerome, help me understand. Oh, help me, St. Jerome, be a better man. You don't take away the thorn from the lion's pole See what you find there at the break of dawn There's a beast I've learned that lurks inside us all. Push me down too long gonna tear down the walls. Oh, hear me, St. Jerome, help me understand. Understand. Oh, help me, St. Jerome, be a better man. Oh, come back, St. Jerome, help me understand. Oh, heal me, St. Jerome make me a better man. Make me a better man. Make me a better man.