“Let’s go bowling”

Summary

The Tony Kornheiser Show

Episode: "Let’s go bowling"

Date: January 5, 2026
Host: Tony Kornheiser
Regular Guests: Michael Wilbon, Chuck Culpepper, Dave
Summary by: [Podcast Summarizer AI]

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Episode Overview

This episode captures Tony Kornheiser and his regular crew diving into the end of the NFL regular season, the upcoming playoffs, college football playoff surprises, and the joys and frustrations of bowling with family. Laced with Kornheiser's trademark blend of sports analysis, personal anecdotes, and banter, the show features insightful contributions from Michael Wilbon and Chuck Culpepper, as well as mailbag highlights that celebrate the show's deep community. The tone is light, witty, and self-deprecating, with moments of nostalgia and camaraderie.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. NFL Regular Season Wrap-up & Red Zone Appreciation

[00:56–02:07]

• Tony and the crew express their annual lament as NFL Red Zone concludes for the season, praising its commercial-free coverage for transforming football viewing.
  • Tony, wistfully: "It's the greatest 18 weeks of all time. It's the greatest television show of all time. So sad it's gone." (01:15)
• Jokes about mourning the end of Red Zone, the economics of cancelling the subscription, and reminiscing about the Red Zone music and its hypnotic effect.

2. Personal Anecdote: Bowling at Columbia

[03:42–07:48]

• Tony recounts a wholesome bowling outing with Michael, Liz, and the kids, describing the quirky frustrations of duckpin (or candlepin) bowling vs. classic ten-pin.
  • "I enjoy it. I would do it every day if I had the opportunity. But I should be able to bowl the ball straight and get it to go where I have aimed it. And I can't do it with the small ball." (04:49)
  • Laughter over gutter balls and comparing the kids' bumper play to skee-ball.
• The segment highlights the social and sensory experience ("the fries were very good"), and how with young kids, outings always center around food.
  • “With kids under 12, it’s all about the food. Everywhere they go, it’s all about the food.” (07:19)

3. NFL: Coaching Carousel & Playoff Outlook with Michael Wilbon

[13:02–27:37]

• Coaching firings: Wilbon notes the annual rhythm of NFL coaching changes, speculating on the futures of Pete Carroll, Mike Tomlin, and John Harbaugh, and reflecting on Tomlin’s potential in TV.
  • “If Tomlin wanted to go to television, [he] could reset television... in the way, if not in the way John Madden did, certainly in a dramatic style like that.” (14:10)
• Pittsburgh vs. Baltimore:
  • Wilbon is empathetic toward Baltimore’s heartbreak, suggests coaching staff issues, and wonders about key decisions late in the game.
  • Tony pushes Wilbon on strategic game decisions, especially end-of-half choices.
• Bears Playoff Path:
  • The anxiety of facing Green Bay for a third time is palpable—no home-field advantage against another cold-weather team.
  • “I don’t want to see the Packers... but I think I’m making my peace with the Packers.” (19:58)
• Wild Card Predictions:
  • Wilbon is high on Seattle—“Seattle is the best of the NFC teams”—and wary of Buffalo (“Buffalo’s going out right away”).
• Myles Garrett Defensive POY, MVP talk:
  • Debates around turtling for sack records and how much such moments matter.
  • “Brady turtled 150 times in his career. Right. But not for the sack record, not like Favre did.” (23:54–24:03)
• Final Thoughts:
  • The league’s unpredictability this year adds excitement: “The uncertainty has made it great. It’s just been great.” (26:17)
  • Calls for the postseason to keep that unpredictable magic.

4. College Football Playoff Surprises with Chuck Culpepper

[28:16–41:59]

• 12-Team Playoff Structure Analysis:
  • Tony and Chuck dissect the poor performance by teams with byes—1-7 over two years—blaming long layoffs and suggesting a move to 16 teams.
    • "You start figuring in that it's a disadvantage to wait, you know, 25 days..." (29:17)
• Indiana’s Miraculous Run:
  • Chuck celebrates Indiana's tremendous turnaround and their gruff, perfectionist coach, Kirk Signetti—"Has to be the best coaching job we've ever seen. At least over a two year period. Just remarkable in so many ways..." (33:30)
• The Specter of Rematches:
  • Both bemoan the scheduling of rematches in the playoff format (Indiana vs. Oregon) as unfair and somewhat less compelling.
• Ole Miss & Lane Kiffin:
  • Chuck speculates that Kiffin believes more chances are coming, but warns that it’s risky to let opportunities slip by.
  • Tony jokes about LSU boosters questioning their investment if Ole Miss triumphs.
• Notre Dame “Left Out”–Writer’s Dilemma:
  • Tony, half-kidding, but with a writer’s perspective: “Sad and angry about what happened... the best possible final is Indiana, Ole Miss. They're great stories both ways.” (38:20)
• Decline of the SEC in Bowls:
  • The once-mighty SEC conference shows vulnerability, perhaps due to changes in NIL rules blunting their former advantages.
  • “The popular thing... is has the NIL era maybe softened or negated some of the advantages…” (40:18)

5. Community and Fan Mail: The “Mailbag” Segment

[42:23–58:00+]

• Tony and crew read emails from listeners, sharing stories that illustrate the show’s close-knit, intergenerational community:
  • Littles celebrating family connections found via the show.
  • A coach bus driver chronicles an underdog college football run; another listener relates the magic of analog joys like parking meters, or the perils of digital upgrades.
  • Warmth, humor, and bemusement at modern technology's encroachment on their analog habits.
  • Standout quote on stamps and postmarks: “The mailbox is now just a suggestion box.” (Darren in South Bend)

6. Music and Local Shoutouts

• Rock Creek Revival, a bluegrass band from the DC area, supplies musical interludes ("Winchester," "White Flowers," with authentic banjo and rootsy vocals).
  • Tony reads a note from the banjo player's brother and warmly jokes about his unfamiliarity with Spotify.
• Bethesda Bagels receives its usual love as the sandwich of the day.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Red Zone's End:
  “It's the greatest 18 weeks of all time. It's the greatest television show of all time. So sad it's gone.”
  —Tony Kornheiser (01:15)

• On Duckpin/Candlepin Bowling:
  “There are so many frames where I get nothing, you know, I just go right in the gutter. The boys don't go in the gutter... becomes skeeball for the boys.”
  —Tony Kornheiser (04:49)

• On NFL Coaching Future:
  “If Tomlin wanted to go to television, could reset television in terms of coaches in the booth or in the studio... in a dramatic style like [Madden].”
  —Michael Wilbon (14:10)

• On Bears Facing Packers Again:
  “I don’t want to see the Packers... but I think I’m making my peace with the Packers.”
  —Michael Wilbon (19:58)

• On NFL Season Unpredictability:
  “The uncertainty has made it great. It's just been great.”
  —Tony Kornheiser (26:17)

• On Playoff Bye-Week Disadvantages:
  "You start figuring in that it's a disadvantage to wait... 25 days.”
  —Chuck Culpepper (29:17)

• On Indiana’s Coach Signetti:
  “His arrogance is palpable, which makes me love him, I have to say. I don't want to ever talk to him. I don't want to be around him, but I love him from a distance.”
  —Tony Kornheiser (33:09)

• On the Mailbag Community:
  “The connective tissue is strong and so frequently meaningful. Isn't that nice?”
  —Tony Kornheiser (47:53)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Red Zone Laments & Opening Banter: 00:56–03:19
• Bowling Story & Family Outing: 03:42–07:48
• NFL Coaching Carousel (Wilbon): 13:02–15:56
• Baltimore-Pittsburgh Recap: 16:45–18:08
• Packers vs. Bears Playoff Stakes: 18:15–21:03
• Wilbon’s Playoff Predictions, MVP Talk: 21:18–27:37
• College Football Playoff Analysis (Culpepper): 28:16–41:59
• Mailbag & Listener Community: 42:23–58:00+
• Musical Features (Rock Creek Revival): 12:18–13:02, 27:55–28:11

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Conclusion

In this episode, Tony Kornheiser and his friends deliver their signature blend of sports insight and personal storytelling, providing both sharp sports analysis and relatable, light-hearted moments. From the agony and ecstasy of NFL playoff scenarios to the nuances of college playoff structures and the unpredictability of sports, the discussions are accessible to both hardcore fans and casual listeners. The mailbag segment is a highlight, radiating the loyalty and wit of the show's devoted audience.

Summary prepared to reflect the tone, depth, and unique community spirit that defines The Tony Kornheiser Show.

Transcript

[Tony Kornheiser]

Hey, it's Tony. On today's show, we will talk to Michael Wilbon about the end of the regular season in the NFL. We'll also talk to Chuck Culpepper about the college football playoffs. But first, let's do some commerce, boys and girls. Previously on the Tony Kornheiser Show. And I sit down and I open up the scone thing. I didn't like it because as Michael said, you're not a scone guy. You're not a scone. No, I don't. I didn't like it.

[Michael Wilbon]

It was a big ball of dough.

[Tony Kornheiser]

It had no taste. So I went around sort of like a mouse, eating just the raisins, opening it up, getting crumbs all over the place, putting the crumbs into the paper bag that I had, being very neat, very tidy, eating the raisins. About eight raisins. 3.958 raisins. The Tony Korneiser show is on now. First and last scone. That's it. No more scones.

[Chuck Culpepper]

No more.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Let me just say before we start the show to Dave Carey in Birdsboro, Pennsylvania. It's a love, lovely note. I feel all of it. It's very beautiful. And yes, dog owners are dog owners. Thank you for that note. The end of the red zone for the year. That's it. Red zone's over.

[Dave]

The witching hour.

[Tony Kornheiser]

It's the greatest 18 weeks of all time. It's the greatest television show of all time. So sad it's gone.

[Chuck Culpepper (continued or another sports analyst)]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

You know, now you have to watch the games, you have to watch the commercials, you have to watch the nonsense. And you realize how much better the red zone is than everything else.

[Chuck Culpepper]

It really is.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. It's on the other side is I can stop paying for the red zone and I can reduce my cable bill a little bit.

[Chuck Culpepper]

Do you ever go to the red zone and say, like, June, just click on it just to hear the music in June.

[Tony Kornheiser]

They don't have the music, I don't think.

[Chuck Culpepper]

No, they do in the music.

[Tony Kornheiser]

It's all you.

[Dave]

The worst is when you come downstairs after putting the kids to bed and you just see the light of the red zone on the music.

[Tony Kornheiser]

This red zone is tremendous. Our great thanks to Matt Abbot Ball, who has a running shop in, in Evanston, Illinois.

[Dave]

Commonwealth Running Company.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. Sent a big box of that. Oh, and very, very nice. Deeply appreciative of that.

[Chuck Culpepper]

Very nice.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So, you know, I could. I could bore you with all the golf I played in the last few days in the freezing cold and literally in the freezing cold. It was literally cold. Freezing cold and some wind.

[Dave]

Okay, I'm aware I get the. I get the morning update from you. I get the course update from Columbia and your personal update.

[Tony Kornheiser]

But if it's not windy, if it's not. When you can dress and play. Yeah, you're not any good. I'm not a good player. It doesn't matter. I just like being outside doing this, you know?

[Dave]

It's a great way for you to collect your thoughts.

[Tony Kornheiser]

If I go by myself. If I go by myself, I'm out there alone. I'm first out. There's nobody on the course but me. I can drop three or four balls from wherever.

[Dave]

What are your diary entries like right now?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Just. They're just. You know, they specifically say I can't hit this shot. This. It's the second shot on 17. I cannot hit the shot. I never get the shot in the air. And I. And my diary is filled with. Again, I didn't get. I took four shots.

[Dave]

Gotta play up the left side of the fairway. Use the ramp.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I just couldn't. I'm no good. I don't get the shot in the air.

[Chuck Culpepper]

I actually read his diary the other day. Mike would be curious to. You'll be interested to see this. So we beat on boats against the corn. Or back ceaselessly into the past. And man, is it cold.

[Dave]

Watch the clock.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So let me. Let me talk. Michael is here.

[Chuck Culpepper (continued or another sports analyst)]

So.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So Michael had not been here for a while.

[Dave]

I made record time on the drive back. Shout out. Day after I95. Day after a holiday.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I thought it was day off.

[Dave]

Okay, well, day after the evening portion of the holidays.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Right? Right.

[Dave]

The trick was we stopped for gas early so we could load up on some soft pretzels from Wawa down in North Carolina.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Waved.

[Dave]

Waved to the BUC EE's. I was tempted to stop, but that's tough. Too many cars.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So as a result of Michael coming home with Liz and with boys, we went bowling. We went bowling the other day. We went bowling on Saturday. Yes, we went bowling. Columbia has six lanes. Six lanes with these tiny ball. Not. Not a regular bowling ball.

[Chuck Culpepper]

Duck pin.

[Tony Kornheiser]

The duck pinball and the duck pin pins. And the duck pin pins.

[Dave]

I always call it a candlestick. Is that a different one? It's like. It feels like the boss.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I don't know. Maybe it's candle.

[Chuck Culpepper]

I think it's the same thing.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Candle pins or candlestick. Candlestick. I think whatever. If you hit. If you hit a bunch of bowling pins with a regular bowling ball, they Scatter and they take other pins out and you get more than a four, you get a seven or an eight. When you throw the small ball and it hits the pins, a lot of times you just get those pins. It goes right, Michael, straight back. You just get those pins. I can't tell you how frustrating it is for me to bowl. I enjoy it. I would do it every day if I had the opportunity. But I should be able. So I do this with a regular bowling ball. I should be able to bowl the ball straight. I don't hook it or anything like that. I should be able to bowl it straight and get it to go where I have aimed it. And I can't do it with the small ball. The small ball I just moves in my hand. I curve it. I don't. I'm not trying, you know. And there are so many frames where I get nothing, you know, I just go right in the gutter. Right in the gutter. The boys don't go in the gutter. Cause the boys get the bumpers on the side. And so it becomes skeeball for the boys. Oh, they're playing angles, you know, so that's. And. And they did.

[Dave]

The captain looks like he's throwing a shot putt.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Oh, yeah, he. He just flings it. He's like rally. One time it went over into the next lane. Looked. Went over.

[Dave]

So I think this is, I think this is candlepin. And the tough thing for you is the ball is small enough and light enough that it doesn't have a consistent release point.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Right.

[Dave]

And to see the frustration on your face when you're not used to it, you know, it's not picking up the first, the first ball is not picking up the number of pins that you'd like. And the second one is. You're just not getting the consistency of the, of the wraparound of the deflection.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I never, I never. My high score was like 80, you know. And in regular bowling I'm not any good. I'm not.

[Dave]

You have like a nice three step approach, right?

[Tony Kornheiser]

My regular bowling, no, I have had a 200 in my life. The dude abides once. But no, no, but 120 to 140, you know, and this thing, it's like.

[Dave]

You can consistently get 120 to 140 in real bowling.

[Tony Kornheiser]

If I practiced even now, at my age now and my ineptitude and dodderingness, I could get 120 on a regular basis. Yeah, I believe that. Are you challenging?

[Dave]

No, I'm not.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Because I think I could 120 could.

[Dave]

Be the Swiss Cheese challenge.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I think I could because, I mean, I think I would get three or four spins. Yes. You know, I do. I think I get three or four because the ball is. Now I can't. I don't release. Tony Reali throws it as hard as he can down the alley, like 900 miles an hour. I don't understand.

[Chuck Culpepper]

Always great. Watched him do that, you know, just.

[Tony Kornheiser]

As hard as he can throw it. With two hands. With two hands. I don't. I don't. I don't understand that at all. But I enjoyed the bowling. You enjoyed the.

[Dave]

Loved it.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. It was always fun.

[Chuck Culpepper]

Always fun.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. It's something you don't expect to be good. And it's always.

[Chuck Culpepper]

Now it's at Columbia. Did you get the bowling alley fries? Because I know there's a.

[Dave]

We did get bowling alley fries.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Oh, no. You know what? With kids under 12, it's all about the food.

[Chuck Culpepper]

All about the food.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Everywhere they go, it's all about the food.

[Chuck Culpepper]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Like you. Wherever you plan to take them to, you have to plan on another million dollars in food.

[Dave]

So again, this happened over the. Over the time of what is often called lunch. So.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yes. Right. And that was fair.

[Dave]

Yes.

[Tony Kornheiser]

You know, that was. That was.

[Dave]

They changed their fries, by the way.

[Tony Kornheiser]

The fries were good.

[Chuck Culpepper (continued or another sports analyst)]

Yeah.

[Dave]

The last year they've been very good.

[Tony Kornheiser]

The fries were very good.

[Chuck Culpepper]

Outstanding.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Should I do anything else here? At the beginning of the show, I'm going to tease something. I'm not going to do the football because Will. Von will do it.

[Dave]

May I just share one thing? So last night, you know, the boys are back in school today, coming off holiday hours, Bootsy likes to feel like he gets some independence from his younger brother. So we say, okay, eight, 20, the little guys are reading, going to bed, go downstairs, watch the first quarter with dad.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Oh, and he loves both.

[Chuck Culpepper (continued or another sports analyst)]

World War I.

[Dave]

He's a Ravens fan. His face is lighting up as he sees them go down the field.

[Chuck Culpepper]

Oh, no.

[Dave]

He goes up with the lead. I say, I think you got this.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Got the lead.

[Dave]

You see the fourth down. Stop. No, no.

[Tony Kornheiser]

It's too bad. He likes the Ravens.

[Dave]

Wide right.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So Chuck Todd got crushed. We did 2 and 5, and he was 1 and 3 in the college. And I should have said to him, don't. Don't pick the college.

[Chuck Culpepper]

We got Miami right.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Did he not Miami. Right. But he didn't get anything else right. The only other game he got right was a Carolina plus two and a half against Tampa Bay. Okay. You know, and And Tampa Bay won by two. So he won by half.

[Chuck Culpepper]

Does that send him back below Mount 565 and 65.

[Tony Kornheiser]

OK. Okay. Carville.

[Chuck Culpepper]

Oh, yes.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Carville went 6 and 0. Yeah. Including that crazy bet of patriots minus six and a half. First half. Only against Miami where it was seven.

[Chuck Culpepper]

Did you see how that played out.

[Tony Kornheiser]

1710 at the first half?

[Chuck Culpepper]

Well, the Patriots were, you know, looked like we're going to score at least get a field goal to put him up by 10. So okay, he's got this easy no throws a pick. Then they go down and they score. And the Patriots have to kick a very long field goal as time expires at the half to give him the to cover.

[Tony Kornheiser]

But six and oh, he's now 51, 47 and two. He's four. He's plus four. Like he had the big action game.

[Chuck Culpepper (continued or another sports analyst)]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Jeff, Ma didn't do well. He lost. The monkey did well. The monkey was over 500. Monkey was three and one.

[Chuck Culpepper]

Three and one.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. So I'm just going to tease this one thing. I'm going to get out of here on this, but I will tease this because I'll do this later in the week. I have a postscript on Sherman oil. I have a whole thing on Sherman Oil. And so you'll want to listen to that because as you know, I called up and I said I'd like to speak to the owner. And I was told what are you talking about, speak to the owner? I said, who is the owner? And I was told Mr. Sherman. I said, would you tell Mr. Sherman I'd like to talk with him? So I'll just tease it by saying that and I'll get out of here and I'll say that Michael Wilbon will join us when we return. I'm Tony Kornheiser. You're listening to the Tony Kornheiser show. Every Friday from 6 to 7:30, it's NBA happy hour on FanDuel. Your pregame for the weekend. We're talking limited time specials you won't want to miss. Boosts, bonuses, surprises, all dropping in the app during happy hour. So before tip off, check the FanDuel app to see the week's specials. Then make your move before the shot clock expires at 7:30 Eastern. It's a perfect way to start your weekend. Or little basketball, little action and a whole lot of Friday energy. That's NBA Happy Hour every Friday from 6 to 7:30pm Eastern only on FanDuel. Official sportsbook partner of the NBA must.

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[Tony Kornheiser]

This is the Tony Kornheiser Show. This is Rock Creek Revival. And yeah, they're named after Rock Creek. They're local. This is called Winchester. Daniel Janicek writes attaches a link to Rock Creek Revival Spotify page. Although I know you don't know how to use Spotify, I know Michael does. My brother Andrew Janicek or Janosek, I don't know how it's pronounced, the banjo player of said band. They play all over the DMV area. I figured you might also like the name. Sure, because I played Rock Creek a number of times. I grew up listening to ESPN980 when I worked for an irrigation company out of Crofton, Maryland. I listened to your show religiously every day as I battled traffic around the Beltway and made my way to the Eastern Shore. I've continued listening for the last 15 years. I'm a devout little. I was also hoping to be your official irrigation correspondent.

[Chuck Culpepper (continued or another sports analyst)]

Sure.

[Tony Kornheiser]

My business is called Emerald Waterworks. I'm now based out of Denver. That's a long way Out. Well, I'm waiting on a response from my brother as to how many outlets he has in his kitchen. Ask Wilbon how many he does. Again, this is Rock Creek Revival. This is called Winchester Plays. In Mike Wilbon, there's. It's just hard to know where to begin. It's hard to know. A lot of things happen. A lot of teams won, a lot of teams lost, and people are getting fired. I think the. I'm absolutely in agreement. I said this last week that the general manager at Atlanta should be fired. The way he screwed up the quarterback situation, I would not have fired the coach. I just saw Schefter on tv. Says he thinks that Pete Carroll is going to get fired. Says he thinks McDaniel and Stefanski will keep their jobs. Stefanski finished well. McDaniel did not. Do you have any thoughts on this, like on firing as to, you know, John Hardball, for all I know, is going to leave. What do you think?

[Michael Wilbon]

It's a normal cycle. At the end of the season, the normal cycle, four or five guys are going to be fired. Heavier years, it's five, six.

[Chuck Culpepper (continued or another sports analyst)]

Yeah.

[Michael Wilbon]

Lighter years is three, four. It's expected. I don't raise an eyebrow at this. You know, of interest to me is what would become. They're not going to be just unceremoniously dumped. Would be horrible. Or if the result of that game had changed. Last night, Mike Tomlin, what are they, you know, after 18 and 19 years, do they want to do this? They want to do something else. I personally think that Mike Tomlin, if he wanted to go to television, could reset television in terms of coaches in the booth or in the studio, in the way, if not in the way John Madden did, certainly in a dramatic style like that. If Tomlin wanted to do that. I don't know Tomlin, I don't know him that well. I know there are people in the agent business who think that Tomlin would be great at that. And who knows, maybe you get tired of doing something for nearly 20 years, something of that profile and that stress. And it's so dramatic now that we used to go crazy when Joe Gibbs said he would sleep in the office like two or three nights a week. Now that's the job for everybody, every night. And so there are some people who say, no, I'm going to do this for X amount of years. I've done it for this long amount. And I don't know if Tomlin and Harbaugh are cut from that, they can make $20 million or more in television a Year. So there's so much that's out there for these guys. The industry is now what would support them, not just head coaching.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, they've been there a long time. Pete Carroll, not a long time in Vegas. I don't know, I don't know how it works. I mean, I'm convinced that firing the GM in Atlanta was right, but because Kirk Cousins is now 6 and 2 as a starter this year. 6 and 2. And this guy drafts, you know, Michael Penn. Just insane. Just let me move on. Three meaningful games yesterday in terms of playoff, getting into the playoffs. Although the Carolina, Tampa Bay game wasn't meaningful because they had to wait for Atlanta and they still, Tampa Bay still lost. Seattle, San Francisco, obviously for number one. Seattle the other day smothered San Francisco and Pittsburgh, Baltimore. The dramatic thing, I know you don't like Aaron Rodgers. What are your thoughts on Pittsburgh getting in and Baltimore not getting in?

[Michael Wilbon]

It's crushing. I thought that Lamar Jackson stated it as well as it could be put when he just said. Devastated, furious, devastated. You could see it written all over him. Because you know that game, Baltimore's got to, Baltimore's got that game. They got control of it.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yes.

[Michael Wilbon]

Even when Pittsburgh slips the head twice, they should have control of that game in the fourth quarter. I do think that the coaching, while John Harbaugh is a Hall of Fame level coach, I just think that that team the last couple years was inadequately coached. And I don't even mean by him, but if you hire the lieutenants that fail you, that's on you.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Oh yeah.

[Michael Wilbon]

And oh yeah. And Pittsburgh is, it's just a wow that they escape with that win.

[Tony Kornheiser]

What were they doing at the end of the first half? What were they doing?

[Michael Wilbon]

You know, I don't, don't you take them to dance?

[Tony Kornheiser]

What do you do?

[Michael Wilbon]

Well, I, the two seconds I understood when, when, when Tomlin said, you know, field goals aren't going to win this game. He felt that way in real time and he went for it with two seconds left.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Crazy.

[Michael Wilbon]

I, I, I thought, you know what, Tony? I would have kicked the field goal, but I thought, I thought he was going to go for it. And he did. And he's not a go for it guy. He is not Dan Campbell.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Right.

[Michael Wilbon]

But yet, but yet that's, that's how it played out. So it was a wow. That game, the whole game was a while.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Let's get to the, let's get to the Bears because it doesn't, it ultimately doesn't matter that the Bears lost because Philadelphia Lost as well. They retained two, but in retaining two, if I'm not mistaken, they have to play Green Bay a third time. This would frighten me. I assume it frightens you.

[Michael Wilbon]

Of course.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yes.

[Michael Wilbon]

The Bears. The Bears and Packers have only played twice in the playoffs in history because the NFL sought to avoid that set up its bracketing to avoid division teams playing each other.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yep.

[Michael Wilbon]

Before the conference final. They played the conference final in 2010 in Chicago and the packers won. That's the famous Jay Cutler game. He can't go and he goes and gets on a bike right at the end of the bench. And that was Aaron Rodgers only Super Bowl NFC championship game in Chicago. And they played in like 1940 palace and Lambeau. And I think the packers won that one. I don't want to see the Packers. But on the other hand, Tony and I sat around gnashing my teeth over a week about this because you could see it coming. If the Bears do I want to play a wounded Packer team in Chicago or the Rams or 49ers who just beat us. I kind of think I would rather get the 49ers in a rematch in Chicago because they, you know, that might have been their high water mark, the game against the Bears with each team scored every time down a week ago. But I think I'm making my peace with the Packers. They got their quarterback, hasn't played in three weeks.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Michael Wilbon]

Since the Bears knocked him out of that game. And they got so many injuries, it's like, what the hell, we got to dance and dance with the devil one more time.

[Tony Kornheiser]

My feeling about this is you have no home field advantage in terms of weather when you play the Packers. But you do when you play California teams. Of course you do.

[Michael Wilbon]

Yeah. But that's not the only home field advantage you're looking for. But. But no, there's no. There's no advantage of any kind.

[Tony Kornheiser]

No.

[Michael Wilbon]

For the packers or the Bears playing each other in the most familiar settings they can play, there's a slight advantage for the Bears. We saw that in those two games. Each team won by a play. I take a play worth of advantage, but that's what we're talking about. We're not. We're not. We're not talking about. No. Weather doesn't come into play, but it doesn't come into play for a lot of people. If Buffalo and New England were to play each other, it doesn't come into play. Baltimore and Pittsburgh, it doesn't come into play. So there are a lot of games where it doesn't now where it could is LA the Bear. Yeah. The Bears beat the Backers.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Michael Wilbon]

And then. And then the Eagles were to lose their wild card game. Then we get the California team in Chicago.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So that's an advantage.

[Michael Wilbon]

Still needed to wind up with that second seed in order to set that up.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Is there a team? I mean, we go through this all the time and we will go through this today on pti that every time there's a team you like, they lose the next game. They do. They lose the next game and then they come back and win a couple. Is there one or two teams. Are there one or two teams that you are particularly high on going into the playoffs?

[Michael Wilbon]

Seattle.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Seattle. You always like Seattle.

[Michael Wilbon]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. They got the best.

[Tony Kornheiser]

They smothered the 49ers. They did.

[Michael Wilbon]

Now, what I'm hoping for is that, you know, I understand how they're playing, that what they do travels. But I'm hoping that, you know, Sam Darnold will throw it to you instead of to his own people.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Michael Wilbon]

Maybe in a second playoff game, you know, Sam Darnold will do that. So that's. That's what I'm hoping for. But I think that Seattle is the best of the NFC teams. Do I think that Philadelphia can win the NFC again? You damn right I do. Despite all the absurdity of their season and the reaction to it. I take Seattle over anybody in the entire league, but I think that the Jaguars in Houston, I think Buffalo's going out right away.

[Tony Kornheiser]

You do? Okay.

[Michael Wilbon]

Yeah, I think they're going out in Jacksonville right away.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Wow.

[Michael Wilbon]

And I think Pittsburgh is go at. Pittsburgh will play at home because Houston's a wild card team. I think Pittsburgh's going out right away.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I agree with that. I agree with that. Yeah.

[Michael Wilbon]

Carolina's going out. It should be. What's that tone?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Carolina's going out even before the game starts. They're out.

[Michael Wilbon]

Who does Carolina get? They get which?

[Chuck Culpepper]

They get the Rams.

[Tony Kornheiser]

They get the rams.

[Chuck Culpepper]

Rams. A 9 1/2 point favorite on the road.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, they're not.

[Michael Wilbon]

And you know what? You know what? I hear you and I believe what you're saying. I believe that. But this whole season, Tony, as you just beat the Rams, it's gone. They beat the Rams already.

[Tony Kornheiser]

The games in Carolina, they beat them.

[Michael Wilbon]

But, but, but this whole season has worked against the logic that you're now.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I know.

[Michael Wilbon]

Has to happen.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I know.

[Michael Wilbon]

And I. So I'm looking at this also going, okay, where are the favorites going?

[Chuck Culpepper (continued or another sports analyst)]

To lose.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. That's fair. Let me get To Myles Garrett. I thought Burrow turtled. I thought he just laid down. What did you think about.

[Michael Wilbon]

You thought he Brett farmed?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yes.

[Michael Wilbon]

I didn't pee.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I did.

[Michael Wilbon]

I didn't pay much attention.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I did.

[Michael Wilbon]

I didn't pay much attention. I thought.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I mean, I know you love Myles Garrett, so that's why I bring it up.

[Michael Wilbon]

Brady turtled 150 times in his career.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Right. But not for the sack record. Not like Favre did. Because he liked Strahan. He did. He liked.

[Chuck Culpepper (continued or another sports analyst)]

Yeah.

[Michael Wilbon]

You know, did he, you know, was he Michael Vick on that play? Did he, you know, get up to 22 miles an hour running away from him? No, he didn't.

[Tony Kornheiser]

No.

[Michael Wilbon]

But I just think that way too much attention had been devoted to that anyway, and I was glad to see it out of the way. And now if he's chasing his own record next year, which he may, he's that great. He's defensive player of the year. It's not even close.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Would you vote for him? Is he your mvp? Because he couldn't be mine because they don't win.

[Michael Wilbon]

No, he's not my mvp, but I don't know who my MVP is. And I guess maybe, you know, it's Matthew Stafford. I think so I guess Stafford is, if you look at. It can't be somebody from San Francisco because they have too many games.

[Tony Kornheiser]

No, it could be Seattle, but, you know, one is going to give Darnold the mvp. This is not going to happen. No, no.

[Michael Wilbon]

And it's not. No, you're right. And Seattle's not going to be the recipient.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Would they give it to Drake May?

[Michael Wilbon]

They. Yeah, they would because there are people who want to. And there are enough expatriates on television talking it up. So, yeah, it could be Drake May and who do they get in the first game?

[Tony Kornheiser]

I don't know who New England is.

[Chuck Culpepper]

The charges.

[Tony Kornheiser]

The Chargers are not good. The charges aren't good. They're just not good.

[Michael Wilbon]

No, I think the Chargers are winless against the Patriots in the playoffs. I'm like, oh, and 3 or 04, you know, historically against the Patriots. I'm not going to say they can't do it. I'm just not prepared to say that Jim Harbaugh. That Jim Harbaugh can't when it would certainly be an upset.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Michael Wilbon]

I'll tell you what else matters, too. It seems like this week in the. In the. In the Midwest and the Northeast is going to be ridiculously mild warm with temperatures in the 60s. Yeah, that doesn't work. In favor of upsets, you know. You know, actually, maybe it does.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Michael Wilbon]

Visiting team, a team like San Diego, that's. It's the same temperature in California.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. It's not going to make no difference.

[Michael Wilbon]

So it'll be interesting to see. Yeah, it's been.

[Tony Kornheiser]

It's been a great season. It's just been a great season because of the uncertainty. The uncertainty has made it great. It's just been great.

[Michael Wilbon]

And so my point, Tony, is why wouldn't the postseason continue?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, I agree.

[Michael Wilbon]

In that tradition.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I agree.

[Michael Wilbon]

I think that would, you know, serve the public well when it comes to just sort of getting involved and paying attention. From the very first game, which is Saturday afternoon.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I'll just tell you this, and I'm sure that you thought the same thing last night. If Justin Tucker was on that team, Baltimore wins that game. If Justin Tucker hadn't done what he did.

[Michael Wilbon]

Well, no, but Justin Tucker's last two years have become nothing. And they Listen. Justin Tucker's off field, alleged behavior. It made it easy.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's right.

[Michael Wilbon]

Get rid of them. It made it easy, but it was. Tucker was done. Justin Tucker was done. Just look at. Look at the big games and the kicks he missed in the last at least two seasons. So they were going that way anyway. But wow, those two kickers. Oh, my God.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Michael Wilbon]

I mean, that was unbelievable kick.

[Tony Kornheiser]

You missed the pat. It's just like you shanked it. It was just ridiculous.

[Michael Wilbon]

Yeah, it was so. It was so wide.

[Tony Kornheiser]

All right, I'll talk to you later. I'll see you later.

[Michael Wilbon]

All right. Tom.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Michael Wilbon boys and girls. We will take a break. We will come back with Chuck Culpepper. We will talk about the college football playoffs. I'm Tony Kornheiser. This is the Tony Kornheiser Show. A lot of banjo music today. Happy with banjo music?

[Michael Wilbon]

Oh, sure.

[Chuck Culpepper]

Good way to start the year.

[Tony Kornheiser]

This is again Rock Creek Revival. It's a local band for us. It's called White Flowers. Very lovely, Michael. If bands like Rock Creek Revival want to send the original music in here to get it played on this show, how do they do it?

[Dave]

You send your music to [e-mail] and.

[Tony Kornheiser]

This one plays in Chuck Culpepper. And we're going to talk about the College Football playoff. And I'm probably going to be annoying about Notre Dame, but I'll try and keep it to a minimum. But let's. Let's just start with this. And this is something you addressed in a terrific article. The other day in the Washington Post that we've had this big playoff, 12 teams should probably go to 16. But we've had this big playoff, 12 teams for a couple of years and in the second round, when the four teams that get byes play for the first time, those teams, which we presume are the higher seeded teams, though they're not always. They're one in seven. They're one in seven. I mean, okay, it's not a huge sample size, but it's the only sample size we've got. What do you make of this? And what do you. Do you see a course correction coming up.

[Chuck Culpepper (continued or another sports analyst)]

So the sample size is getting bigger. Yes. And it's getting considerable, I think.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Chuck Culpepper (continued or another sports analyst)]

And it means, I think it, you know, as in as we've seen maybe with buys in other sports from time to time you start figuring in that it's a disadvantage to wait, you know, 25 days.

[Tony Kornheiser]

25 days, yeah.

[Chuck Culpepper (continued or another sports analyst)]

While the other side's waiting only, you know, half that.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So.

[Chuck Culpepper (continued or another sports analyst)]

Or less.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. So to make this clear to people, one team is waiting 25 to 30 days and then being asked to play a top 10 team, you're not being asked to play the Citadel, you're being asked to play a top 10 team that just played. In the old days. I'm just going to go off here. In the old days when you had bowl games and only bowl games, Everybody sat for 25 to 30 days. So there was no advantage. This is an elimination tournament. There's an advantage. It seems to me there's only two ways to fix this. Go to 16 and. Or start playing these things earlier, which I don't think college football is going to want to do for money reasons.

[Michael Wilbon]

Right.

[Chuck Culpepper (continued or another sports analyst)]

I think go to 16 is the solution to this. And it's the, the outcome, it's what's going to happen. I don't think anyone doubts that. And you know, you take a case like last season, Oregon 13, 0 ranked number one. They had played on that first weekend in December and then they have to. They play the Rose bowl against Ohio State, you know, which had just played Tennessee on the 20th of December and it was what, 34 to nothing midway through the second quarter. And the same, same with Ohio State year. You could just see it in just whatever it is, whatever kind of sharpness is lost with the weight. You could spot it there.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Pretty much the only team in two years that has not suffered is the juggernaut known as Indiana, a team that was the worst. They were the worst college football team of all time. And it leads to this question because there's a lot of sideline shots of Kirk Signetti. Why is he so angry? He's so angry, Chuck. Why is he so angry?

[Chuck Culpepper (continued or another sports analyst)]

I think. I think it's the perfectionism, probably. And that's, you know, the way they practice and the way they teach whatever is based on these very, very minute details of hand placement, you know, helmet placement and just small things. So I always look at that and assume that he must be thinking about, you know, whatever tiny detail was just done a fraction of an inch, you know, improperly. So I think that must be it. And he's, he's quite a character. And I love when he, you know, he'll get a long question and answer with about five or six words, you know, and then let it go with that. And the whole thing is, you know, and we were just talking about the disadvantage of having to wait. This is another accomplishment that they made. They're now the only ones to overcome this disadvantage. And they did it 38 to 3 against Alabama.

[Tony Kornheiser]

He's always scowling. His eyebrows should be put in a wax museum because of the way that they look. And it's like he waits for the end of the question. And what he wants to say is, are you kidding me with this question?

[Michael Wilbon]

Right.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Don't you feel. Are you kidding me with this? Did you just see us? What do you talk. Right. I mean.

[Chuck Culpepper (continued or another sports analyst)]

Right.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Wow.

[Chuck Culpepper (continued or another sports analyst)]

He came to the media day at the. Before the Rose bowl, two days before the Rose bowl, and he's sitting there on a, you know, on a podium dais, whatever you'd say. People bunched around and there was a delay in the questions. About 12 minutes, 15 minutes in. Yeah. To a 40 minute session, he said, we good? And nobody had any more questions. He left.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. He's just. His arrogance is palpable, which makes me love him, I have to say. I don't want to ever talk to him. I don't want to be around him, but I love him from a distance. How did he accomplish that's. I don't think people really understand what a hellhole for football Indiana was. How did he do this?

[Chuck Culpepper (continued or another sports analyst)]

I think that's still one of the mysteries of this that makes it so compelling is this is. Has to be the best coaching job we've ever seen. At least over a two year period. Just remarkable in so many ways, but still defying description in some way. You know, they've beaten, you know, as we know, they used to lose to Michigan and Ohio State, you know, as a matter of routine Year after year after year. They've beaten both of those in the last two years, plus Oregon on the road, plus now Alabama, plus Iowa on the road, which is hard to do. Illinois came into their place with a number nine, 63 to 10, got killed.

[Tony Kornheiser]

And he ran it up. He runs it up. That's another thing I like. He runs it up. He doesn't care.

[Chuck Culpepper (continued or another sports analyst)]

You know, that's part of that precision thing, too. We're going to, you know, you could see on the sideline in the last three minutes that I think it was the defensive backs coach still drilling them on what to do with a 38.3lead.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So with all this and, you know, and I'm not going to take that position. Oh, they got to prove it again and again because they prove it all the time. But with all this, I don't like the fact that they have to play Oregon for a second time. I don't. I've watched what happened in this tournament. Playing a team for a second time is not good. What are your thoughts on that?

[Chuck Culpepper (continued or another sports analyst)]

If they overcome that, then they're even more astounding than we thought, which was already very astounding. And you're right. And I. The rematches, you know, the Georgia Ole Miss rematch turned out to be a terrific game, but in the run up, it was so dreary to think about it. You know, these rematches are just Ole Miss, Tulane was a rematch, you know, just. I don't know, there's something about them that just. It seems unfair, as you're saying, and it also seems just a little less interesting than it could be.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Thank you for mentioning Ole Miss. Which leads us into the existential question. How do you think Lane Kiffin feels right now?

[Chuck Culpepper (continued or another sports analyst)]

I think he has such confidence in himself that he believes that it's going to happen for him across the next few years time and again. I think that's probably the way he's thinking about it. I think that's, you know, that's kind of a perilous way to think if that's true, because these things are actually hard to come by. And what Ole Miss is doing is rare and certainly rare in their history and rare for anybody. I think of Dan Campbell when the Lions almost got to the super bowl and he said, you know, the sad part about this is it was really hard to get here. And. And it's, you know, it's going to be hard to do it again. And I think, you know, I don't know if it enters his mind that he's missing out on this, you know, really precious opportunity, I'm going to guess. No, I would think. No, I would think he's where he wants to be. With all the, you know, the perks of LSU that Ole Miss didn't quite have and that he's thinking, well, this is going to happen for me across the next few years.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I bet he's thinking that. But if I was a booster at LSU and I saw Ole Miss win the national championship with Pete Golding sitting at the. At the rudder here, I might. I might have some doubts about what I bought with Lane Kiffin. I might.

[Chuck Culpepper (continued or another sports analyst)]

True. And Pete Golding, whose record, if he does win the national championship, will be 4 and O lifetime head coach record. So that'll tell us something about maybe how it all works and how the head coach is. We all know the head coach is crucial, but maybe not as crucial with experience as. As we think.

[Tony Kornheiser]

All right, I'm gonna. I'm gonna go back into one of my standard wines here. Miami has totally justified being in this tournament. They're totally justified. And I could justify them being in before, but what do you know? What are you thinking if you're Notre Dame? What are you thinking if you're Notre Dame and you were ranked ahead of this team five straight weeks and now they're in the semifinals?

[Chuck Culpepper (continued or another sports analyst)]

What do you think you're thinking? I think what a lot of us were thinking, which. Which is that even before it got started, Notre Dame looked like it had this caliber good enough to win the whole thing.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Chuck Culpepper (continued or another sports analyst)]

And now that the whole thing is open as it is, to a large degree, I mean, we thought we were going to the. Everybody thought, oh, the Fiesta Bowl, Ohio State and Georgia. That's going to be a real, you know, that's a real heavyweight bout right there. And now if you're Notre Dame, the way it has unfolded, you're. You're probably even sadder.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's what I think. Sad and angry. Sad and angry about what happened. So I think the best possible final, because in terms. I always think in terms of writing, the best possible final is Indiana, Ole Miss. I mean, because they're great stories. They're great stories both ways. Who do you. Who do you like? Who do you like to win it? You watch them all. Who do you like to win it?

[Chuck Culpepper (continued or another sports analyst)]

Indiana's playing with this sort of rarefied precision you almost never see. So I've. I've decided to stop worrying about them so much. Right. You know, obviously, we root for the story. That's truly we. People always think that you Know, sports writers. Oh, who's your favorite team? And whatever favorite team I had as a child fades over time, you know, and you get used to being objective and being sort of fallen in love with the story. So, you know, Indiana is really is. And it keeps marching on and, and, but I also think it's the best team and it just, it'll be hard to beat Oregon again, but they did it in Eugene, so I think they can do it in Atlanta. And I would like them to beat either Miami or Ole Miss.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So I noticed this the other day. There was a graphic on some show somewhere. The sec, which doesn't just pride themselves on being the best conference, arrogantly tells you they're the best conference all the time and doesn't really want anybody else to play college football. Okay. Their bowl record this year is all awful. Have you seen it? It's something like 4 and 8 or 4 and 9, right?

[Chuck Culpepper (continued or another sports analyst)]

Yes, yes. What do you make of that? Well, I think the sort of, the popular, you know, thing that people are wondering at the moment is has the NIL era maybe softened or negated some of the advantages that they had before.

[Tony Kornheiser]

When they did, when they cheated just under the table?

[Chuck Culpepper (continued or another sports analyst)]

Like everybody tend to go on probation more than other people did. So. Yeah, yeah. So that to me is fascinating. Is it true that they no longer sort of have that kind of advantage? And you know, some of these bowl losses, Iowa beat Vanderbilt, you know, Vanderbilt's terrific team. We all, everybody with a heart loved that season that they had and, and thought they were better than Iowa. Clearly they're in the sec. Iowa's middle of the, or upper middle of the Big Ten and Iowa pretty much controlled that game in a lot of ways. So I think it's, it's, it's going to be really interesting to watch going forward. You know, when they're, as you say, if there's another 12 team playoff, of course they'll campaign to have seven or eight of them again next year.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Sure, that's, that's their DNA. But like Oklahoma, maybe you don't consider Oklahoma and SEC team, but they lost after winning one. Mississippi State lost, Vanderbilt lost. Georgia lost. Alabama lost. You know, they won one and then lost one. I don't know about lsu. Tennessee lost. I mean, these are big name schools. They all went down the drain in these bowls, right?

[Chuck Culpepper (continued or another sports analyst)]

Yes. Tennessee lost the Music City bowl, which.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Not supposed to lose. That's in your home state.

[Chuck Culpepper (continued or another sports analyst)]

Yeah. Probably violates like zoning ordinances or something like that, you know, laws and things. But yeah, some of These losses are kind of jaw dropping.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. William loves the Virginia Wilburn. Just loves it because, you know, he hates the sec. Because a big ten guy. He hates the SEC anyway.

[Chuck Culpepper (continued or another sports analyst)]

Right, Right.

[Tony Kornheiser]

All right. Enjoy the whole thing. Thanks for being on. We'll talk to you after all of it. Thanks, Chuck.

[Chuck Culpepper (continued or another sports analyst)]

Thank you so much, Tony. Thank you.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Chuck Culpepper, fabulous writer. Just fabulous. We will come back with email and jingle. I'm Tony Kornheiser. You're listening to the Tony Kornheiser.

[Sean Gallagher]

Here comes Tony's mailbag. Got your email faxes and your notes. Here comes Mr. Tony's mailbag. He's gonna read some for all of you folks. He's gonna read some for all you.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Boo.

[Chuck Culpepper (continued or another sports analyst)]

Folks.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's Sean Gallagher. That's new. That is new. That's new. That's a banjo and great country vocal.

[Chuck Culpepper]

Yeah, it's well done.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's really good.

[Chuck Culpepper]

Start the year off with the new.

[Dave]

Scotty McCreary modulated up or something.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, that's really very, very good. Great job. You want to do the Bethesda bagel that?

[Chuck Culpepper]

Oh, yes. Bethesda Bagels, we love. Today was bagel sandwich day. Always excited about that. Just go to Bethesda Bagels.com for the location in the DC area near Stew. Then pop on in and you'll be thrilled. And I would like to give a shout out to our very good friend Greg Garcia.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yes. What's he got coming up?

[Chuck Culpepper]

He's featuring. So he's not just the opener now. He's a feature comedy. Comedy act for Julian McCullough at the Mohegan Sun Casino in Connecticut. In Connecticut. Yeah. He's going to be doing 20 minutes.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Going all around the country now, doing.

[Chuck Culpepper]

This this Friday and Saturday.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Fantastic.

[Dave]

I know.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So fantastic.

[Chuck Culpepper]

So littles. If you're in the area, you'll want to stop on by Mohegan Sun Friday and Saturday. The Julian McCullough is the headliner and the feature act is one Greg Garcia.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Oh, that's great.

[Chuck Culpepper]

So great.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Hope that works out well. All right. Before we get to the mailbag, let me just say there ain't no good in our goodbye and true love Takes a lot of trying oh, I'm crying Let's hang on to what we've got don't let go, girl we got a lot Got a lot of love between us Hang on, hang on hang on to what we got That's a very early Four Seasons tune.

[Chuck Culpepper]

Yes.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's a great Frankie Valli vocal. Yes. Just great. Thanks to our guests today Michael Wilbon and Chuck Culpepper. Thanks as well to today's sponsors. Remember, you can listen to us on Apple podcasts Spotify and Odyssey. Get show through Apple. Please leave us a review from Charlie Burt's in Springfield, Virginia. May I please be the official first emailer read in 2026 of the Tony Kornheiser Show. It's been a dream of my mother since I was a small child. Yes, Happy New Year to all. Windchill and Palm Beach Gardens 35 going to 60. Regards, DG Good to know, Good to know. Aaron Halliday New Year's Greetings from Nashville. This is Aaron, the official motor coach operator for the Tony Kornheiser show and typically the lead driver for the Illinois State football team. As I email this to you, it's 8:00am Central on Sunday, January 4th, and I'm preparing for my day with the football team. We're on an incredible run to be playing in the FCS National Championship, which will be played on the 5th. The Redbirds, led by head coach Brock Spack, who are unranked, have traveled to Hammond, Louisiana to defeat number 16 southeastern Louisiana, to North Dakota to defeat number 1 North Dakota State, to California to defeat number 8 UC Davis, and finally to Pennsylvania to defeat number 12 Villanova. Illinois State will be playing number 2 Montana State on ESPN to top off this run. Sadly, I will not be the lead driver for the team because of the travel, distance and scheduling commitments of the weekend's events. Instead, I will be providing transportation for support staff, student trainers, equipment, crew and others. However, I will be there to see my team compete for the championship on the sideline. The support of the locals in Nashville will be apparent. It's shocking how many people acknowledge me in my Peoria Charter Motor Coach with a TK salute as I maneuver through tight turns and parallel parking across the United States. But we could use some well wishes while love as we take the field to finish this incredible season. We need support of the Littles. Now, this happened, right? It happened. Did it not?

[Chuck Culpepper]

Or does it say the fifth?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. Or is that today?

[Chuck Culpepper]

That's today.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay, good. In closing, thanks for decades of entertainment. I've been a listener since 1998 and he attaches some photos and says, go you Red Birds.

[Chuck Culpepper (continued or another sports analyst)]

Yeah.

[Chuck Culpepper]

Go Redbirds.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. So it's today. Unranked and they beat the number one team already. And now they have to beat the number two team. Good luck. Yes, definitely good luck from Shad Howling late last night. You better not let them in, Spiderwolf. Full moon. It's a beautiful moon when it's not occluded. We have had difficulty seeing it here. We saw it the day before. It was totally full.

[Chuck Culpepper]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

And then through the clouds on full night. Gorgeous. You know, it's a big moon. It's very nice. Jeff Barger Hillsborough, North Carolina Mark your calendar as there will be a lunar eclipse on March 3. It is a blood moon eclipse as the moon will turn red on March 3rd. The best part is that it will happen during the 6 o' clock morning hour which is right in your wheelhouse. Yeah, I got the dog out there. P.S. please tell fellow Hillsboro little Leslie Thomas to eat it but also to have a happy New Year. We'll connect in 2026 from Jordan Chance in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, formerly of Lindenhurst, New York on Long Island. Just want to send you a quick update on the Peter Goldstein situation. I called my mother after you read my email on Tuesday's show. She told me she never heard of him. Anyway, if you want any more details, I'd be happy to look into it further. Nigel knows my email address, so just get in touch with me there. Just what are we doing private ads here?

[Michael Wilbon]

So great.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Neil Ayervase for all my adult life I've had very little connection with family, principally as a result of having so few relatives and losing several too young. In fact, a Google search discloses Fewer than 10 Ayurveda air vases in the world.

[Michael Wilbon]

Wow.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Thanks to you and your community. However, I just experienced a marvelous, marvelous familial connection Just this week. Fellow Little Adam Schubert reached out to say that he heard you read my emails and that the woman to whom he is related by marriage is an air base. We followed that communication with a long phone call and a connection which I'm sure will flourish and help us all find out more about our family. Yes, the connective tissue is strong and so frequently meaningful. Isn't that nice?

[Chuck Culpepper]

That's amazing.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That nice. Okay, thank you in the gang for playing the music of Mari Campbell on New Year's Eve. I have so enjoyed the music of artists whose songs I love being Showcased on the pod since 2018 when I sent in Liz Longley's song Bad Habit as my introductory submission. In my case, it's been a very good habit and thank you for all the kind words you have spoken over the years about the artists and their songs. I've become such a big fan of the show, not only because of the music, but also because of such amazing guests as Jason Locanfora, who offers terrific insights about the NFL each time he's on Speaking of the NFL. Thank you Tony so much for offering a visual shout out for two days in a row on Pardon the Interruption to Hole in the Roof, the book I co authored with Burke Murchison, whose father founded the Dallas Cowboys in 1960. The last chapter in our book is called Franken Stadium for a reason. It underscores exactly what Jason said during his last appearance on the POD when he spoke of the billions of dollars in subsidies now being doled out to NFL owners hoping to cash in on new stadiums. Clinton Merkerson, Jr. The focus of our book, prided himself on never taking a penny of taxpayer money after opening Texas Stadium in 1971. During his tenure, the Cowboys also provided police and fire protection at the stadium and even paid rent to the city of Irving, Texas. In preparing for a recent speaking appearance involving Hole in the Roof, I was shocked to learn how much money billionaire owners of the NFL are now taking from taxpayers to build their Franklin stadiums. The list of the guilty is too long to mention, so let me commend the one ownership group that has vowed to use private funding and no new taxes in building a state of the art dome stadium. That would be the Denver Broncos, who provide quite a contrast to their division rival, the Kansas City Chiefs. As the Washington Post noted in a recent editorial, the tentative agreement of the State of Kansas has made with The Chiefs provides $2.775 billion billion in public funding. This is likely far below the final price tag, with one estimate putting the total public cost at $6.3 billion over 30 years. What else can one say? Mr. Cranberry writes, except Go Broncos.

[Michael Wilbon]

Yeah, right.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, sure, Bill Isaacson Assuming the topics of Larry Sanders, Larry Sanders and the history of Sports Illustrated are still on the table, I have this story. In 2013, Lee Jenkins of Sports Illustrated did a story on Larry Sanders of the Milwaukee Bucks before Sanders flamed out. The story describes Sanders difficult background with the opening line, the NBA's fiery angel has seen the darkest corners of crazy. For the piece, Jenkins reached out to Gary Shandling. Because of Sanders of the Bucks. Jenkins wrote, was living a life where the Larry Sanders show references never cease. All I can say says Garry Shandling. His name could have been Roseanne and then it would have been much worse. As Jenkins also wrote, Shanley is well aware of Sanders. Thanks to Bucs fans who mistakenly tweet him. Really enjoyed watching you tonight. Good luck the rest of the season. Shanley is flattered. Then I remember the show isn't on anymore, he says. Gary, as he would do, had long conversations with Sanders about his difficult childhood and abusive father, including finding out that as a young child, Sanders and his father would actually watch the Larry Sanders show together. A great, great show, but not Sesame Street. Anyway, prior to Jenkins coming on the scene, as a Bucks fan myself, I had given Gary a Larry Sanders jersey and taken a few photos of Gary wearing it with my iPhone. Oh, the innocent days for the iPhone, parenthetically added Si and Gary reached out to me for the photo. And that is how, while I may not be a Hoff or a waf, my photo was published in the sports magazine with the most iconic sports photography in history. I proudly keep a framed copy of the page, although in retrospect, the fact that SI published a phone photo may have signaled the beginning of the end. He shows it. It's great. That's what I think of with Larry Sanders. I think of Larry Sanders.

[Chuck Culpepper]

Oh, sure.

[Tony Kornheiser]

From David Epstein on the Wednesday pod, you mentioned having a matchbook from the famed Restaurant 21. The 21 Club was located not on 44th street, but rather at 21 West 52nd street, directly across from the CBS Blackrock Building. Since you asked, I regret to inform you that the restaurant is no longer in operation. Yet another victim of the pandemic. Non New Yorkers may possibly remember 21 as the place where Gordon Gekko orders the off the menu steak tartare for Bud fox in the 1987 classic Wall Street Street. For me, it's a place where five years after that movie, I bore witness to the hilarity of the head of CBS advertising stale sales, having to cut off the credit card of one of his salespeople. Said salesperson was apparently in the habit of heading to 21, expensing the steak tartare to go hopping on the train and bring it home to feed his dog.

[Sean Gallagher]

Ah, the good old days.

[Tony Kornheiser]

P.S. one of my favorite stories I was ever told had to do with 21 and was told to me by the actor Jared Harris of Mad Men fame. As I'm sure Nigel knows, Jared Harris is both the son of of the famed actor Richard Harris and the stepson of the equally famous actor Rex Harrison. As Jared relayed to me, Richard Harris was a noted drinker and in the 1960s frequented 21, then a new York hotspot. During one trip stateside in 1969, Harris stopped in at 21, looking to relax and imbibe his favorite table. He was instead told that the restaurant was closed due to a private party. Harris protested and was eventually allowed to sit in a remote part of the restaurant while revelers dominated the establishment. Annoyed, Harris inquired what the fuss was about. He was told that the group was celebrating an honoree who had just returned home to the United States. Harris, annoyed that no fuss was made over his many arrivals in New York, called over a teenager, a manager rather, to find out why he, a loyal patron, was being put out for a celebration of someone who had merely landed in the United States, as he had done many times. It was then that Harris was informed of the identity of the honoree and weary traveler, Neil Armstrong. How fabulous is that? Email Ben Sandler Columbia, Maryland we had a wonderful New Year's week at Bethany beach with four of our 14 grandchildren. Watched the sunrise on New Year's morning with the kids. Great experience that was enjoyed by all despite the cold and biting winds. As I was driving home catching up to the week shows filled with joy from the week you open the mailbag with lyrics to my In My Life, which definitely is one of my favorites, I had to pause the part to listen to the song immediately. Needless to say, I was wiped out my tears as I finish listening to the mailbag. Wishing you and the crew a happy New year filled with straight hits, very few sand traps. From Bob lane in Midland, Michigan longtime little occasional emailer Mr. Tony your reference of in my life made me smile as I recalled an incident from a few years ago. My college roommate was getting married and I offered to pay for the acoustic duo providing the music for his wedding when it came time to write out a check. Thankfully they didn't accept online payments. I offered to double their fee if they would play you Don't Send Me Flowers instead of Lennon's masterpiece. They declined the offer. Oh well, for my friend's second wedding. And trust me, there will be a second wedding in homage of your Long Island High school friend Jimmy Steinman. I'll triple the going rate if they play 2 out of 3 anything Brett Hobbs Linton, Indiana I visited your area a few years ago. Wanted to take the family to Harpers Ferry to hike around. I come from a small Indiana town where we only need a few quarters to pay a parking meter when we want to park in town. When I arrived with the family in the parking lot at Harpers Ferry, I was greeted with the new technology of the pay by phone parking. After my son helped me download install the park mobile app, which I don't have, which Michael has offered to do, I paid for parking. We were able to explore the area. I never used that app again. But a strange thing happened. I received an email telling me that Park Mobile had a data breach and that I was included in the class action lawsuit against the company. I filled out the required online forms and after several months I received a payment of $13.75.

[Dave]

I miss out on that as my.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Portion of the settlement. I can see why you are against phone apps and the way technology is changing. Park Mobile should understand that a few quarters in a meter are a lot better than lawyers at your doorstep when you don't protect the data you require from a person just to park. From Bill Garner I always love hearing Bob Ryan because I always learn something during the conversation. You mentioned influencers Influencer you're not I have a Revolution toaster. Love it. Fleece lined pants the best solo stove. Only get the hand warmer thing 4 time in 3 years. Stupid toothbrush I tossed long ago because you wouldn't tell how the battery operated. And if I ever go to Norway I'm buying a Lillehammer jacket. Thanks. You guys are the best. Darren in South Bend, Indiana I hate to pile on, but I feel a civic duty here. Between your iPhone updating itself without consent and the federal government gently insisting that checks are now an embarrassing relic of the past, there's one more quiet change that may affect your remaining analog joys. The United States Postal Service has now changed how mail gets postmarked. Your check is no longer dated when you put it in the mailbox or hand it to a human, it stated. When it finally gets processed by a sorting machine, which may be a day or two later, possibly more, the mailbox is now just a suggestion box. So the check you mailed on time, responsibly signed with a Bic, may now appear late. Not because you were late, but because the machine woke up when it felt like it. This matters for anyone who mails payments to the Internal Revenue Service Utilities that blasted iPhone. Really? Anyone who believed that a forever stamp meant forever? You can wait in line and still request a hand stamp postmarked at the counter, which feels like asking a librarian to bless your book. Otherwise the robots decide That's a brilliant email from Darren. Brilliant. Chris Tuohy, Rock City Falls, New York A small hamlet near Ballston Spa, New York, which is also a small hamlet with a mention of Hensley Bam Bam Mulens the other day it brought back memories of seeing him at Heritage park with the Albany Colony Yankees. When I was a kid, we saw a lot of great players go through, including Bernie Williams, Jim Laritz, Deion Sanders who signed his autograph with a dollar for the S in his last name. Back then, Bam Bam always stuck out because of his nickname. I guess dad gave him the nickname because his home run power was reminiscent of the club wielding character Bam Bam Rubble from the Flintstones. I gave my son the nickname Meatloaf because it meets both of the dad son nickname criteria. One, he hates Meatloaf. Two, he hates the nickname. I can only hope when he's in the big league someday that is known as Miles Meatlove. Two Fantastic From Todd Derry in Orange Village, Ohio. You mentioned your experience at Framebridge, which is a wonderful product and company. You also mentioned it's owned by Don Graham and his company. Framebridge was actually started by Susan Tynan who graduated high school with me in 1994. Everyone loved Susan. Knew she was going to be something big. She was voted most likely to succeed and our senior class went to Virginia Undergrad and Harvard Business School. She started Framebridge because she loves the art. I knew there had to be a better and less expensive way to frame pictures and artifacts. It was not the least bit surprising to me that Framebridge is so successful. Susan is a wonderful human being. I'm so happy for our success. Happy New Year to all of you. Tell Eric Marks either this is. These are the ones that are unbelievable to me.

[Chuck Culpepper]

Yeah, I went to high school with her.

[Tony Kornheiser]

These are the ones. They really are from Sam Thompson in Georgetown, Texas. Take the raisins, leave the skulls. Godfather Brendan Borselli is the new game to bring our grievances to you once a year until they get resolved. It might be difficult for Michael to disguise his problems with you when he relays the same issues to you, but it's possible. Dad, I'm having this problem with a mutual friend. Keeps calling me to complain about losing his information when Apple takes over his phone with an unwanted upgrade. Also, can you get Barry Bonds into the hall of fame? And I'll keep writing him every year. Lee Gordon Episode 80 Boynton Beach, Florida Enjoy that new hand warmer. Just don't leave it behind on the golf cart like those insulated beverage tankards. I left it. I lost it for a little while there.

[Dave]

I had to get your name tag.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I was on six and I lived by the green habit. And I had. I drove back to five, drove back to four, and between four and five is where I fell out of the cart. From Tony t in Brooklyn, D.C. i was at a pretty contentious neighborhood meeting once. Folks were complaining that the time and date for the affair had not been sufficiently publicized, the moderator arrogantly replied. That had been announced all over social media and several emails had been sent out to remind people to attend. A vaguely elderly woman stood up in the back of the crowd and said very succinctly and formally told the city officials, I do not have a computer. She spun around and stormed out, leaving the panel silent for more than a moment, I'm going to try to find her and enlist her in your very battle, very just battle against the IRS. Unrelated, the 85 Villanova Georgetown final has been mentioned twice this week. I was not a talented sports journalist I of the game, but I wasn't a freshman dorm at Villanova for that huge upset. Being a D.C. pG native, it was a complex affair because I grew up supporting Georgetown. Pretty epic game. Pretty epic celebration afterwards.

[Chuck Culpepper]

Yeah, sure.

[Tony Kornheiser]

From Tim in the Midwest. Can you please tell Jeff Ma, you're welcome for me. I finally watched 21 and want him to know where that royalty check came from. Maybe Next I'll watch Mr. 3000. And from Brian in Farum in Denmark. Oh, in Denmark. At a New Year's party, we ended up talking about where we were born. A man I hadn't met before said he was born in Bethlehem. The rest of the night my only thought was he would crush the famous people from where I was Born segment. Thanks for a great show. Yeah, if you're out on your bike tonight, as always, do wear white. Look Mother, I want to go to.

[Chuck Culpepper (continued or another sports analyst)]

Work in one hour.

[Tony Kornheiser]

We are the pros from Dover and we figured I'd crack this kid's chest.

[Michael Wilbon]

And get out to the golf course before it gets dark.

[Sean Gallagher]

Halfway across the world my old Uncle Saint that's all through Harry if we last time seen my Sherry Dine I'm headed Homestead I'm going down here to Winchester, Virginia in the Shenandoah Valley that's where I long to be there's folks down there at the music till the sun rise There's a heaven here on earth boys waiting there for me. There's a girl down there how she loves me like no other she's like all upon the water of my restless soul I see I swear this time she won't have to watch me leave her counting down weeks and months till I come home again Now I'm going down here to Winchester, Virginia in the Shenandoah Valley that's where I long to be there's folks down there happy music feel the sunrise There's a heaven here on dirt balls waiting there for me. Want to see the lights come shining from the Valley On a cool September evening While the sun sets in the west this place is home. Mouth holds me like a lover Busy smiling with each sunrise. Yes, my spirit rest I'm going down head Winchester, Virginia in the Shenandoah Valley that's where I long to be. There's folks down there that the music till the sunrise. There's a heaven here on earth boys it's waiting there for me. There's a heaven here on earth boys it's waiting there for me. Finished school and moved away back in 98. Never thought I'd see this town again. But I took a job back here and the years disappeared.

[Chuck Culpepper]

Places changed.

[Sean Gallagher]

But the memories still remain. When the white flowers bloom on the hill sigh, Their perfume calls back through the years. Lying in your bed, music ringing in our ears? You were the girl of my dreams. Dog was wearing blue when I first met you and you stole my heart on those warm August nights. We spent that summer stone at festivals and shows and the sun rose and set in your eyes. When the white flowers bloom on the hillside Their perfume goes back through the years. Lying in your bed, music ringing in I? You were the girl of my dreams. Well, days they flew by like a speeding train. And we fell apart like lovers often do. Let's think about those times we were young and you and mine had spent a lifetime missing you. When the white flowers bloom on the hillside the perfume calls back through the years. Lying in your bed, music ringing in our ears? You were the girl of my dreams. Lying in your bed, music ringing in our ears? You were the girl of my dreams.