“Reluctant Chili Eater”

Summary

The Tony Kornheiser Show — “Reluctant Chili Eater”

Date: February 27, 2026
Podcast: The Tony Kornheiser Show
Host: Tony Kornheiser
Guests: Brian Windhorst, Ryan McGee
Producer/Assistants: Nigel, Gina (likely)

---

Episode Overview

This episode features Tony Kornheiser’s signature blend of sports commentary and personal storytelling, with highlights from the NBA’s latest drama (especially regarding tanking and the Lakers) with ESPN’s Brian Windhorst, a deep dive into Michael Jordan’s foray into NASCAR with ESPN’s Ryan McGee, and Tony’s comic misadventures as a “reluctant chili eater.” As always, the episode is laced with wry banter among the familiar sit-in guests and producers, peppered with light-hearted complaints, sports nostalgia, and slice-of-life vignettes.

---

Key Discussion Points and Segments

1. Opening: “Show About the Club” & Chili Cook-Off Recap

(01:44–08:18)

• “Club” Mentality: Tony recounts a recent “risky” show where he booked guests unfamiliar to the regulars, reflecting on his preference for the show to be a “club” of friends and familiar voices.
• Chili Cook-Off at Columbia: Tony relives his experience attending a local chili cook-off with his wife Carol and friend Alison.
  • Tony dishes on the logistics (tiny serving cups, voting, confusion over chili options).
  • Humorous observations about the crowd (“Old people looking for free food go to these things.” [06:03])
  • Tony’s food preferences:
    • Pulled pork was his favorite ("The one I thought was best was not even chili. So I couldn’t vote." [07:17])
    • Prefers chili over rice: “I am sort of a reluctant chili eater in that I would like it to be over rice. I think that rice calms down the taste of most foods, and certainly it would calm down the taste of chili.” [07:21]
  • Gentle ribbing about the crowd’s demographics (“Everybody there was old... I wanted to go over and ask [the young people] for their passports, find out, what are you doing here?” [08:04])

---

2. Chatter & Mailbag Oddities

(10:42–12:08)

• Wine Gift from Listener: Tony thanks a listener for Colorado wines (“Peachfork is a small family owned and operated winery… The best peaches you’ll ever taste… Now, I’m not a peach person. I don’t eat things that are fuzzy. That’s where I draw the line.” [09:24])
• Comedic Riff on AI Spam: Tony reads a bizarre email about retail shoe financing, prompting jokes about how random podcast spam has become, and insists he is not “in the shoe business.” [11:23]

---

3. Listener Connection & Remembrances

(12:12–14:09)

• Community Bonds: Tony reads a touching email from Tom Kakart about a loyal listener who recently passed away, emphasizing how the show connects listeners and forges unexpected friendships. (“We understand… this is a connection between people and it enables a friendship to grow up rather spontaneously and rather easily.” [13:32])

---

4. NBA Deep Dive with Brian Windhorst

(15:10–30:02)

Lakers, Luka, and Coaching Critiques

• Lakers Discussion: Tony probes the Lakers’ struggles, raising whether J.J. Redick's inexperience as coach is part of the problem.
  • Windhorst’s response: "The roster is flawed. It’s not set up to maximize Luka… In some ways the Lakers job had been kind of done for them. They were given, like, you got Luka, okay? Now you need to have… guys who can shoot threes and defend, and you need to have a big man who can defend the basket because Luka is going to get beat on the outside." [16:40]
  • Notes that a team built solely for offense is faltering, and next year is when “they will sort of build their roster around him.”
  • Tone: measured, critical, and practical.

Debating Tanking and League Ethics

• Tanking vs. Load Management:
  • Tony’s take: “To me, tanking attacks the reason you’re out there… I think this is terrible.” [19:40]
  • Windhorst details how modern tanking is more pervasive than before, impacting entire seasons and multiple years.
  • Cites Mavericks, Spurs, Thunder as recent tanking-beneficiaries: "They tanked. The championship team tanked." [22:38]
  • On the Bucks not tanking, Windhorst says: “Strategically… it’s the wrong play. And that’s where the problem that the league has to address is. Where the answer is, strategically, you should be losing. You don’t want to do that as a league.” [24:11]

NBA Marketing Oddities

• Atlanta Hawks’ Strip Club Night:
  • Tony questions the appropriateness of this event.
  • Windhorst notes it as “an iconic institution,” but admits, “I’m sure Adam [Silver] knows about it now...” [25:01]
  • “The marketing is working. They’ve reached, you know… there’s men of a certain age with disposable income who may now pay more attention to it.” [26:18]

Injuries and Playoff Implications

• Jayson Tatum’s Achilles Injury: Tony asks whether Tatum might return for the playoffs.
  • Windhorst: “I don’t know… The reason why this is so fascinating is the Eastern Conference is an absolute wide open, no idea race.” [27:02]
  • He notes that if Tatum comes back healthy, the Celtics are favorites; the pressure will be “self-imposed” more than anything else. [29:45]

---

5. NASCAR and College Football with Ryan McGee

(30:26–44:18)

Michael Jordan’s NASCAR Triumphs and Lawsuit Drama

• Jordan’s Genuine NASCAR Passion:
  • Tony and McGee discuss MJ’s authenticity as a NASCAR team owner—contrasting him to other celebrity owners (“Michael’s there all the time… he’s really, really, really involved.” [33:31])
• Jordan’s Recent Lawsuit & Daytona 500 Win:
  • Despite a just-settled lawsuit with NASCAR that “got really personal” [34:53], Jordan’s win and Victory Lane presence signals a fresh start.
  • McGee: “He grew up a real race fan… Once that [Confederate flag] went away, all of a sudden, Michael’s all in.” [36:38]

Daytona 500 Finish and NASCAR Rules

• Flag Controversy on Final Lap:
  • Tony questions why no caution was thrown after two last-lap crashes (“Obviously, that’s a conscious decision to let the race go on? Is this new?” [37:27])
  • McGee explains it’s about crash positioning and safety, and there’s latitude for officials at the finish—making for a more exciting, albeit debated, conclusion.

Joe Gibbs Racing Lawsuit

• Team Secrets Dispute:
  • Lawsuit surrounds a top executive allegedly taking proprietary information to a rival team. McGee draws a parallel to football coaches bringing “the playbook” to new employers. [40:55]

College Athletics, NIL, and “Never Leaving”

• Eternal College Athletes:
  • Tony vents about athletes exploiting extra eligibility and NIL deals to linger in college sports. McGee’s take: “Once you’ve left college, you’ve left college… That drives me bonkers.” [44:16]

---

6. Classic Mailbag & Listener Stories

(44:32–56:30)

• Listener Emails: Tony and crew read a mix of comic, nostalgic, and heartfelt letters from “Littles” (fans) across the US and abroad, touching on:
  • Navigating snowstorms, family names, classic rock references.
  • Observations from Egypt to Pittsburgh’s “parking chair” traditions.
  • Remembering friends and sharing sports trivia.
• Tony’s Reluctance for Tech: A running theme returns as Tony resists setting up online bill payments, preferring “the old way.” [55:31]

---

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On booking unfamiliar guests:
  "It’s a show about being in a club and you let the people into the club who you like." — Tony [01:51]
• On the chili cook-off crowd:
  "Old people for free food go to these things. So what you should do, if you’re Columbia, you send out messages to everybody over 70: 'You want free food tomorrow night? It’s chili cook-off.'” — Tony [06:03]
• On food texture:
  "I’m not a peach person. I don’t like the taste of them, and I don’t eat things that are fuzzy. That’s where I draw my fuzzy." — Tony [09:24]
• On NBA’s tanking conundrum:
  “Where the answer is, strategically, you should be losing. You don’t want to do that as a league.” — Brian Windhorst [24:11]
• On Jayson Tatum’s possible return:
  "If he comes back, it could be the difference between the Celtics making the finals or not. That’s why it’s complicated." — Brian Windhorst [29:45]
• On Michael Jordan’s authentic NASCAR engagement:
  “Michael’s there all the time, and he’s really, really, really involved. Goes to the team meetings on Mondays, and he’s there.” — Ryan McGee [33:31]
• On lingering college athletes:
  "That drives me bonkers… Like, just leaving college and then coming back and acting like you never left." — Ryan McGee [44:16]

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Opening & Chili Talk: 01:44–08:18
• Wine & Spam Emails: 09:52–12:08
• Listener Connections: 12:12–14:09
• NBA & Brian Windhorst: 15:10–30:02
• NASCAR & Ryan McGee: 30:26–44:18
• Listener Mailbag: 44:32–56:30

---

Tone & Language

Kornheiser’s curmudgeonly warmth threads through the episode—he balances wry irritation (with technology, youth, NBA tanking) with self-deprecation and genuine gratitude for the “club” of listeners. Windhorst and McGee are analytical but conversational, mixing deep sports knowledge with inside jokes and engaging banter.

---

Closing Thoughts

“Reluctant Chili Eater” delivers the quintessential Tony Kornheiser Show experience: idiosyncratic stories, sports insight tinged with skepticism, and a sense of community among both guests and listeners. Highlights include Tony’s deadpan food reviews, Windhorst’s candor about NBA strategy, and McGee’s window into NASCAR’s evolving culture—with a recurrent refrain: “this show is about the club,” both on the mic and in the real, multi-generational fanbase.

---

Transcript

[Tony Kornheiser]

Hey, it's Tony. On today's show, we're going to go around the NBA with Bryan Windhorst and we'll talk about Michael Jordan's winning streak in NASCAR. NASCAR, not the NBA with Ryan McGee. But first, let's do some commerce, boys

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

and girls, avoiding your unfinished home projects because you're not sure where to start. Thumbtack knows homes, so you don't have to. Don't know the difference between matte paint finish and satin or what that clunking sound from your dryer is. With thumbtack, you don't have to be a home pro, you just have to hire one. You can hire top rated pros, see price estimates and read reviews all on the app Download today.

Toogood and co Coffee creamers are made with farm fresh cream, real milk and contain 3 grams of sugar per serving. That's 40% less than the 5 grams per serving in leading traditional coffee creamers for a rich, delicious experience. Whether you enjoy your coffee hot, cold, bold or frothy, two good coffee creamers make every sip a good one.

[Jingle Singer]

Simple.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Two good coffee creamers, real goodness in every sip. Find them at your local Kroger in the creamer aisle. Previously on the Tony Kornheiser Show.

[Brian Windhorst]

One year they did Howard slapping with Logan Paul.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I was on that.

[Brian Windhorst]

So it's just kind of a amalgamation of tons of people that are getting

[Tony Kornheiser]

fit, strength, jacked, that whole thing.

[Ryan McGee]

And Arnold's there and he's such a

[Brian Windhorst]

nice man and so kind. I couldn't turn it down.

[Tony Kornheiser]

You know what comes from Columbus on this show? Jenny's ice cream.

[Producer/Assistant (possibly Gina or similar)]

Oh, yes.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Made in Columbus. So maybe you should find Jenny herself and sit down and do ice. That would be a better sport. You just say all you people want to be fit with Arnold. You go to the left, I'm going to the right. I'm going to Jenny's.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

The Tony Kornheiser show is on now.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So I should mention this. That show that we did on Wednesday, there was a risk involved in that show.

[Nigel]

All nervous.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. If you pay attention to this show all the time, you know, I only put my friends on. I put on people whose voices I know, whose thoughts I'm aware of, whose orientation I get. We all look at the world in the same way. It's a show about being in a club and you let the people into the club who you like. And I put on two people. I don't know. I don't know. Todd Harris. I'm thrilled by what he did on, you know, on the Olympics. Mentioning my name. I don't know Matt Barry. I know his work, but I don't know him. It's not familiar voices to me. It's not familiar voices to you. I'm not trying to say that we're not going to do expansionism here. We're not going to bring in a lot of people that we don't know. But it worked. It worked. I mean, they were wonderful. They were wonderful guests. I don't know, it was. It was a lovely show, but it was risky. I felt that was risky.

[Nigel]

I always look at this show with like a school calendar which you have these, you know, Thanksgiving have various breaks. You have to sort of build the culture. And. And with us, we are defined by the starts and the stops of different sports calendars. And right now we are in a period of time where we can have those types of shows. And it's fun.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, I thought it was fun. Sort of risky and fun. I liked it. I like them both.

[Producer/Assistant (possibly Gina or similar)]

Should I cancel Rita Moreno then? I know we've never talked to her.

[Tony Kornheiser]

No, we're not gonna have Freedom Moreno. Snow forecast. A little more snow coming Monday. A little more snow coming.

[Producer/Assistant (possibly Gina or similar)]

But it's gonna be 60 on Saturday, right?

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's good. Yeah. All right.

[Nigel]

The driving range is opening up.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yes. From one to four strict hours. From one to four only at Columbia there it hasn't been open in literally a month. You know why it's only open from 1 to 4? They have to hand pick the balls. They can't use the machine that goes out there and retrieves all the golf balls because they're hand picking them because there's still some snow out there.

[Nigel]

What are the kids aim at?

[Tony Kornheiser]

You know, I don't know. Yeah, because now you can't aim at

[Nigel]

the targets, not the cart.

[Tony Kornheiser]

You can't aim at the cart anymore. In news affecting this show and the friendship that we have with a variety of people. Barry Zverluga will work for the Athletic. Yes. Congrats. He will write a column in the Washington D.C. area. He will work for the Athletic. So other people, the Post, who I don't really know, have been hired, but Barry is somebody that, that we should

[Producer/Assistant (possibly Gina or similar)]

mention and particularly the editor whose brother writes into the show.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Jason is going to go work at the Athletic.

[Producer/Assistant (possibly Gina or similar)]

So congrats on that.

[Tony Kornheiser]

The Washington Post puts out a sports section every day. It's about four or six pages. It's all wire copy. It's big pictures or wire copy. And sometimes it's about European soccer and sometimes it's about European F1 races. And sometimes it's about World cup and what's coming up. And sometimes it's about something that someone who lives in Washington might be interested in, but it's written not by anyone, you know, and it's written in the. Stylistically it's, you know, get all. Get all the news front loaded and then move on. And it doesn't even have agate. It doesn't have standings, it doesn't have box scores. It's tremendously insulting. I mean, honestly, it's tremendously insulting because it's, it's. It's an excuse for a sports section. It's not a real sports section. You know how I feel about this. Everybody knows how I feel about this. I went to the chili cook off last night.

[Producer/Assistant (possibly Gina or similar)]

Oh, yeah?

[Tony Kornheiser]

At Columbia. Carol and I went. We sat with our friend Alison.

[Nigel]

Were you just tasting or were you also serving?

[Tony Kornheiser]

No, I was not serving. I was tasting. I was. There were six or seven different chilies. One of them wasn't even a chili. One of them was pulled pork. It was really good. Yeah. You know, you get very small little cups.

[Producer/Assistant (possibly Gina or similar)]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

You take any vote cups that you know that normally a doctor would give you for pills. Two or three pills.

[Nigel]

Like a bathroom cup.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, but small. Yeah, very small. Very small. And spoons all over the place. And you go from chili to chili. And Carol gave me bad information at the beginning. Carol said that all the chilies spice levels. Oh, no, no. All the chilies on each table are the same chil chili. They're not different chilies. But there are only two tables. And I didn't really understand that. And then I looked closely and indeed each different vat of chili was labeled with a different number because you vote now who goes to these things?

[Nigel]

Old people looking for that meal.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Old people for free food go to these things. So what you should do, if you're Colombia, you send out messages to everybody over 70, say you want free food tomorrow night. It's chili cook off. Now. Are all the.

[Nigel]

I'll do it three days later. You get a couple discounted drinks too.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, I bought. Certainly. I bought a beer to have with all this chili. You know, that's where they make the money. I know, it's fine. It's a lovely event. It really is. The second time and it's a lovely event. I don't know who won. I will find out today who won. I voted for number three. Al voted for number one. All of the chili's were pretty similar and all pretty good one. I Didn't like. It was just too sweet. You could taste the sugar in it. I don't.

[Producer/Assistant (possibly Gina or similar)]

They're exotic ones in there. Like, sometimes.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I don't know.

[Producer/Assistant (possibly Gina or similar)]

Yeah. I've been with a snake. They've had alligator.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I don't think so, but I don't know. And everybody was. Everybody who was.

[Nigel]

Anything that you would not recognize as a chili, Like a chili verde, like something that chicken.

[Tony Kornheiser]

No. I don't know. I don't know. I would just scoop it up, and then I would eat it, and then I would go back and get more. I thought that was my job. I was going to vote. Yeah. I was going to fulfill my obligations. Yes. By voting for the one I thought was best. I didn't. The one I thought was best was not even chili. So I didn't. I couldn't vote.

[Nigel]

It's like the pulled pork.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. I didn't. I didn't truly.

[Nigel]

What are your thoughts on beans and chili?

[Tony Kornheiser]

I'm not a. It's okay. I'm not. Here's what I like. I am a. I am sort of a reluctant chili eater in that I would like it to be over rice. I think that rice calms down the taste of most foods, and certainly it would calm down the taste of chili.

[Nigel]

You want chili once or twice a winter, right?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. This was my. This was my show.

[Nigel]

So Nigel would always famously make one pot of chili, make it as hot as possible.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Producer/Assistant (possibly Gina or similar)]

It was like 40 gallons.

[Nigel]

Yeah. You freeze it?

[Producer/Assistant (possibly Gina or similar)]

No, I just give it out.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I enjoyed. I. Look, I enjoyed it. I enjoyed doing it. It was a way to spend a couple of hours and see some people that I knew, and I liked them. And everybody there was old. I mean, there was a couple of tables of young people I wanted to go over and ask for their passports, find out. What are you doing?

[Nigel]

What are you doing here?

[Tony Kornheiser]

What are you doing here?

[Nigel]

Free parking.

[Tony Kornheiser]

You can afford to go get a meal. You're not. Awful dinner. You're not living on a pension like the U.S. you know? Come on. Okay. Also, we got wine. Wine was. Oh, yes.

[Ryan McGee]

Let me.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I just lost an earpiece.

[Nigel]

Oh, it's still in the ear.

[Producer/Assistant (possibly Gina or similar)]

Still in the air.

[Brian Windhorst]

Hold on.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay, this is ridiculous.

[Nigel]

Well, this moment's happening.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I need to have a new earphones. I need to.

[Nigel]

Well, we've been trying to replace these earphones for years.

[Tony Kornheiser]

What I do is I yank on the cord, and then they fall out of my ear.

[Nigel]

So when you imagine someone doing a podcast, you normally are imagining someone with over the ear. Headphones.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. I don't know.

[Nigel]

Wear those.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I don't like those. They hurt my head. All right. This came to us from Dave Burns in Grand Junction, Colorado. And it is. They sent us two bottles of wine. Michael, can you describe the wine or even.

[Ryan McGee]

I can read one of them.

[Nigel]

It's a. It's a peachfork. It's a 2023 Cham Borson.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Cham Borson.

[Nigel]

Cham Borson, yeah. And the other tasting notes on the

[Tony Kornheiser]

other one is a Blau Frankinch. That's another one. Dave Burns sent these about Peachfork Wines, where the guy who makes the wines is Phil Patton. P, A, T, T O, N. And it's in Colorado. So who do we have in Colorado? We have Neil Ayervase. That's right, in Colorado.

[Nigel]

A lot of fruit notes to it.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay, so this is. Yeah, these are. Peachfork is a small family owned and operated winery. All the grapes are grown on the property in Palisade, Colorado, along with apples, pears, a few plums, and the best peaches you'll ever taste, which is very, very nice. Now, I'm not a peach person. I don't like peaches. I don't like the taste of them, and I don't eat things that are fuzzy. That's. I draw my fuzzy. Yeah, that's a reasonable position. I like plums. They're not fuzzy.

[Producer/Assistant (possibly Gina or similar)]

Nectarines.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, plums. Tart, small, hard plums. When they give you the ones that are squishy and soft. No, give them to someone else. I don't want them. I know what I want.

[Nigel]

You have some plum notes.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I'm not a pears guy. Apples are okay. I mean, there are certain kind. I like apple pie. I don't like to sit and eat apples. I like.

[Nigel]

Are you just thinking about apples from like 20, 30 years ago? Like a Red Delicious. Have you tried a Honeycrisp?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, they're. Apples are okay. I just don't. I don't favor apples. I like them in pies.

[Nigel]

How do you like these?

[Tony Kornheiser]

How do you like them apples? I got a number. Yeah. Can't help it. So this is Peachfork. This is Peachfork. And we will try these. Yes, maybe.

[Nigel]

Perry was roasted BlackBerry, boysenberry, and plum, offering a balanced and approachable tasting.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay, should we give it to the

[Producer/Assistant (possibly Gina or similar)]

kids first, see how they like it?

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's all I got. I don't really have any.

[Producer/Assistant (possibly Gina or similar)]

Oh, did you want to read the letter?

[Tony Kornheiser]

You won't let me talk about the email. I don't. What? Oh, which one? Oh, yeah, this one from Alexis King. Listen to this. I'm just saying this. Just. I'm reading this every word. I'm reading every word. I'm not leaving any words out. I'm not adding any words. Hi. Tony Kay has a retail shoes business. A line of credit and term funding could help cover inventory costs during seasonal spikes. We keep upfront costs simple so you don't slow down when shipments arrive or sales push up. Interested in a quick chat to see how it could fit your cadence? Thanks again, Alexis King.

[Nigel]

A lot of buzzwords.

[Tony Kornheiser]

What are you talking about? Are we in the shoe business? How did I get in the shoe business? Matt's in the shoe business.

[Nigel]

One shoe at a time.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Come on, Matt. And Evanston is in the shoe. How did I get in the shoe business?

[Producer/Assistant (possibly Gina or similar)]

We get an awful lot of solicitations in the mailbox.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Why?

[Producer/Assistant (possibly Gina or similar)]

Just, you know, you're on a mailing list or something. This is terrible. I mean, a lot of times it's like, hey, we can help you podcast trolling the mailbox. Your business and I don't have a business. Yeah, well, the. As the podcast, but I've never seen one completely unrelated to anything that we are involved in. The retail shoe game.

[Nigel]

You do talk about shoes a lot.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Well, I talk about a lot of things a lot.

[Producer/Assistant (possibly Gina or similar)]

I picked up on it, said, oh,

[Tony Kornheiser]

this is a sales opportunity that's probably AI generated. Right.

[Producer/Assistant (possibly Gina or similar)]

It has to be.

[Tony Kornheiser]

And it's.

[Producer/Assistant (possibly Gina or similar)]

Oh, it's always a tell when they send an email and it's like, dear Tony Kornheiser show.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, it's never like that. All of my emails that say Anthony, I just delete them. I didn't read them. No point. I mean, they don't know who I am. So what is. It's not coming to me. At that point. We should mention. From Tom Kakart in Bluegrass, Iowa, a melancholy happy trails to my good friend and loyal little Alan Arkin. Not that Alan Arkin. As he would share in his emails to you this past Friday, Al passed away at the age of 95. It's a long run. Robert Duvall. Yes, exactly. Yes. Until the very end of his life. One of the highlights of the day was when a new Tony Kornizer podcast would drop into his phone. He could listen to the show. So that's very, very nice. You always talk about the connective tissue of the show, and my friendship with Al is an example of it. We first met many years ago at the local ymca. We were talking about podcasts we listened to. I have a podcast for my job covering University of Iowa athletics. And Al is a longtime Iowa fan. He mentioned he loves listening to your show. So did I. Our friendship was born and from that point on, every time we saw each other, discussion always found its way to talking about the show and laughing about something that happened on it. A few years ago, Al move from Iowa to San Jose to be closer to his daughter. As his mobility began to decline, we'd stay in touch via text messages and phone calls. Always focused on Iowa athletics and your show, mainly your show. We would always laugh. One of his favorite stories to share was several years back when he met you down in Arizona at the Super Bowl. PTI was on site and he showed up and got a picture with you. It completely made his day. Isn't that nice? That's very lovely. So it's very, very nice. And we understand. And I'm not using the royal. We, all of us in this room understand that this is a connection between people and it enables a friendship to grow up rather spontaneously and rather easily. Always. Everybody's always grateful for that. You meet people who listen to the show and you go, really? You know, and that's why I love those emails, like from Sue Hydell the other day. I'm listening. Yeah, I'm listening. I have no idea who's listening. No idea whatsoever. All right, we will take a break. Who's first on the show? Brian. Brian Windhorse is first and Ryan McGee is second on the show. That's correct. I'm Tony Kornheiser.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

You're listening to the Tony Kornheiser Show.

[Tony Kornheiser]

This is T.R. kingston. Have we played T.R. kingston's music?

[Producer/Assistant (possibly Gina or similar)]

I believe we have, yes.

[Tony Kornheiser]

This is called Blessing. Some of the lyrics in it, because he sent them to me are. It's a blessing that you took reason and you try. That's nice.

[Producer/Assistant (possibly Gina or similar)]

It is nice.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's very, very nice. T.R. kingston, again, we welcome. We'll get to this later in the show, but we welcome submissions of independent music. And the reason we welcome it is because we have to pay money for stuff you recognize. We don't have to pay money for this. And it's good. Yes, it's a win win, as the kids like to say. T.R. kingston playing in Brian Windhorst, who is in California. He's gonna do the get up show. It is right now 7:40 in the morning in the east, which makes it 4:40 in the morning in Los Angeles with Brian's. When do you get up to do the. To do this and to do the you're not up for this. You're up for the get up show when you do that.

[Brian Windhorst]

3:45.

[Tony Kornheiser]

3:45. It's great.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

When are you going to sleep? Are you watching the games like last night? Did you watch the games?

[Brian Windhorst]

I actually was at the Clipper game for a little while. They played the Timberwolves. Yeah, yeah. I prefer when I don't have to go to the Laker Clipper games because then I can more focus on watching. But you know, that's where the people who have all the information are.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So understandable.

[Brian Windhorst]

You kind of got to go to those games. But listen, this is not every day. I don't do this every day of the year, but you know, a handful of days a month, here we are.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So I'm going to just go off script. I have some questions I want to ask you, but mentioning the Lakers. I noticed on the Early Sports center that the Lakers lost last night. Doncic had 60,000 points, LeBron didn't have that many. But it's not, it doesn't seem to be working. And just an idle chit chat conversation like Wilbon hates Luka. Doncic goes out of his way to say he was fat. Goes because he's a friend of Nico Harrison who made the stupidest trade in the history of the NBA and should have been fired on the spot and the trade should have been rescinded. But Wilbon wants to defend his boy Nico, so he finds reasons to hate Luka Doncic. Having said that, doesn't seem to be working to any appreciable standard. And I'm wondering this, Brian, when does it get around that somebody says, well, maybe J.J. redick is part of the reason here, he's not an experienced coach. Maybe he doesn't know what he's doing.

[Brian Windhorst]

No, I mean, I'm sure that jj, even if he was on this call, would tell you that maybe he has better days than others. But yeah, the roster is flawed. It's not set up to maximize Luca. And you know, you could say, well, if you're a truly great player, shouldn't it not matter? And yeah, that's fairly true. Yeah, I think, you know, in the, in the, in the teens between 2010 and 20, you probably could have put almost any four players on the team. And LeBron was so great, he probably could have gotten his team if not to the finals, pretty close. Luka is not the type of player. He is a breathtaking offensive player, but he has warts. And so to maximize him, you have to have a certain roster around him. And this is not like some breaking assessment. This is what happened with the Mavericks. It took the Mavericks like five or six years to figure out what team they needed to have around him. And they did. They reached the finals. I mean, they reached the finals because Luke was playing great, but they had a roster around him. And so in some ways, the Lakers job had been kind of done for them. They were given, like, you got Luka, okay? Now you need to have, you know, guys who can shoot threes and defend, and you need to have a big man who can defend the basket because Luka is going to get beat on the outside. That's how they lost the game last night. I mean, they really lost the game because they gave up. You know, Phoenix has been a terror over the last 10 games. Phoenix was 30th in offense, dead last. And they scored 113 on the Lakers yesterday. That's why they lost the play, the game that they lost. They isolated Luka and they beat him off the dribble, and the whole Lakers defense collapsed. And then they swing, swung, swung the ball around, and they got a 3 and 1. But you got to have a basket defender to. To, you know, take care of Luka. And they don't have that. You know, they tried to trade for one and they didn't get it done. And so I think they've all along kind of set the expectation that next year is going to be the year where they sort of build their roster around him. And, you know, maybe next year they will. But, you know, basically the way this team is designed is to be so awesome on offense that they don't have to worry about their defense because they've got these awesome, awesome offensive players, Reaves, LeBron and Luka. And the truth is, even though we don't have 200 games to base it on, they haven't been very good together. And so, frankly, I'm sort of. I'm sort of indifferent. It's not a very good team. They win some clutch games, they lose some clutch games, but they're not going anywhere. And to be honest with you, like, this roster build, when they know what the formula around Luka is, it's kind of an unserious build, and it's kind of like, you know, we're going to. You know, we're going to. We're going to do better next year. And I think that was the way they looked at it, you know, months ago.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Wilbourne just says he wouldn't pay Luca any money. He wouldn't have him on his team.

[Brian Windhorst]

They already paid him.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Tony, he's just right. He's insane. Wilbourne's insane. Okay, let me get to another Wilbond point. Wilbon believes, as apparently does Jay Williams believe, that tanking is nothing. It's not a big deal. It only affects a small handful of teams and it's nothing. And it's nothing compared to load management. This strikes me again as insane. To me, tanking attacks. The reason you're out there, you allow the Washington Wizards to just trade for people who cannot play. You know, they're physically unable to play and lose game after game after game to get God knows what as a result of it. And they're not the only team. Utah, 10 teams doing this. It's a third of the league trying to tank. I think this is terrible. What do you think?

[Brian Windhorst]

Okay, so the difference between tanking to today, the modern tank, and the historic tank is that teams used to tank like in the back half of March and April. And you know, it was like, okay, we're not good enough. This last 10 or 15 games, like three, four years ago, the Mavericks actually tanked out of the play in. They didn't even want to make the play in. And it got them Derek Lively, a player who was a key, and getting into the finals. And they, they got, they got fined like $500,000. Do you know why they got that fine? No, no, they tanked for two games.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Oh, not for, not for three years. Not for three years. Like the Wizards, not three years.

[Brian Windhorst]

So. So what's happening now is you, you are seeing tanking happen. Yes, for multiple years, but also for the whole season or, you know, 2/3 of the year.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, that's where the Rubicon is.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So, I mean, are they gonna do anything about it? Is Adam Silva really care about it?

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, they're gonna do something about it. But I think I told you last time we talked. So the first anti tanking measure was the lottery. That was in 1983.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So you couldn't just finish last and automatically get the first pick if there was somebody you specifically wanted. That's right.

[Brian Windhorst]

And by the way, there's a reason why they're tanking. Like, you know, you look at the spurs right now, some women are. Yeah, that's a product of tanking. They tanked three years in a row. And the difference between the spurs and the Wizards in all honesty is that the spurs got super lucky and the Wizards have gotten super unlucky. I mean, I guess, you know, they got SAR number two, but that year that, you know, if, you know, like if you look at that draft, Zachary Richache was the number one pick in that draft. The year before him was when Banyama, the year after him was Cooper Flag.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, that was the year the Wizards

[Brian Windhorst]

got quote, unquote lucky. You know, like, yeah, like last year, the difference between the fourth pick was Cotton Knipple and the sixth pick is Con Knippel and Trey Johnson. Now, Trey Johnson may end up being a fine player, but Con Cannipal last night set the all time record for rookie three point shooting in his 59th game.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, he's pretty good.

[Brian Windhorst]

And so like they're doing the correct thing. The only difference between the Wizards and the spurs, like you would say, oh my God, the Spurs are brilliantly run. What an franchise. And by the way, the team that won the championship last year, the Thunder, they tanked. They tanked.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Brian Windhorst]

The thing that they got lucky with was that the Shade Gildas, Alexander trade led them to an mvp. They didn't know they had an mvp. They just got kind of lucky on that. And you know, but you know, they tanked. The championship team tanked. So like you look at the results and there's these teams are benefiting from tanking. So in fact, I would argue like you look at a team like Milwaukee, Milwaukee is not tanking. They elected to say we're not going to tank. They've won eight their last 10 games. Okay. They are in 11th place. They are going nowhere. They're going nowhere and maybe the karma gods will smile on them and when they, if they miss the playoffs, that they will get jump up in this lottery. But the Bucks, I'm afraid, are headed for getting the seventh or eighth seed because they tried to keep playing while the rest of the teams around them tanking. And by the way, the reason they wanted 8 out of 10 is because the teams that they're playing around them are tanking.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yes. Okay.

[Brian Windhorst]

And they're going to get to Giannis, like Giannis, our dream for the future is building around this 15th pick that we have. You're going to resign, right? When like the real pathway for them forward was once Giannis got hurt this last time was to probably take and try to get a top five or six pick and so that they could get a player that they could actually build around. So like, like you look at the Bucks, if you're a Bucks fan, you like, oh, man, you know, we haven't given up on the season. This is great. But it's strategically, I'm not saying Ethically, strategically, it's the wrong play. And that's where the problem that the league has to address is. Where. Where the answer is. Strategically, you should be losing. You don't want to do that as a league. That's a bad place to be.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, that. That's my feeling as well. By the way, did you. Did Atlanta have some sort of celebration last night of a strip club? Of a strip club?

[Brian Windhorst]

No, they announced the celebration. It's not for a couple weeks, so you can still get there.

[Tony Kornheiser]

But is this something that an NBA team and a league should say? This is a good idea, a strip club, really?

[Brian Windhorst]

It's an iconic institution. Actually, one of their. One of their owners, Jamie Gertz, who's an actor, she's gone on. I think she. Don't hold me to this exact sentence, but I think she founded Spanx and she's become a billionaire.

[Producer/Assistant (possibly Gina or similar)]

Yes, that's accurate.

[Brian Windhorst]

She funded a documentary on. On the Magic City strip club. I know how it's an institution. And so this is like an organizational support system. This is also the organization that brought you swipe right Night. I can't remember which. Which partnership was with which app, but a few years ago, they basically, they were like, come swipe right, you know, and come to a Hawks game. And by the way, what was the last time you talked about the Hawks game on your programming, on your platforms, Tony? Never kind of accomplishing what they're looking for there. I believe it's March 16th against the Magic. How about that?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Oh, it's a Magic. Yeah.

[Brian Windhorst]

And there's no reason why he could drive down there, right, Nigel?

[Tony Kornheiser]

I mean, just seems to me that the bus. You know, there are documentaries on a lot of things that you don't necessarily celebrate with the league saying, this is a good idea. Like, does Adam Silver even know about this? Does he know about this?

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, I'm sure Adam knows about it now. Did he know about it yesterday? No, no, but. But again, you're proving that the marketing is working. They've reached, you know. Yeah, there's. I'm sure. I'm sure there's certain. There's men of a certain age with disposable income who may now pay more attention to it, and I think that's what they're looking for.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay. All right. I know you have to go. I'll get you out of here. I'm just curious. Is it a serious. Do you find it something to take seriously that indeed, Jayson Tatum will come back this year, maybe for the playoffs, and be an A good player again.

[Brian Windhorst]

So here's the complicated. So the answer. My answer to that question is I don't know. And I. And I get asked about it every day. I'm gonna get asked about it all day long today.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Well, let me be the first.

[Ryan McGee]

Let me get you ready once again,

[Brian Windhorst]

you're on top of the game.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Ye.

[Brian Windhorst]

He obviously he's trying to do that. He's very, you know, he's got a multi part documentary out about his recovery.

[Tony Kornheiser]

His own strip club.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, maybe that's on the cutting room floor. He didn't have a documentary about. We'll see you in the fall.

[Ryan McGee]

Right.

[Brian Windhorst]

I think his intention to play two things. Earlier this week, Dejounte Murray came back to the New Orleans Pelicans and played after an Achilles tear. He was 13 months.

[Tony Kornheiser]

This is 10 off. Is 10.

[Brian Windhorst]

Is not even 10. He's not even a 10 yet. Okay. And by the way, the Pelicans are not tanking, you may think.

[Tony Kornheiser]

No, they just. They stink.

[Brian Windhorst]

That's right. And so, like, it wasn't like they told Dejante, we'll see it next year. No, he's trained, trying to get back.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Right.

[Brian Windhorst]

They're not giving up on the season. And so I'm saying is, by the way, you know, you can say, you know, like, like if a guy tears his achilles when he's 34, but, you know, Dejounte Murray's in his mid-20s. He's about the same age as Tatum.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Brian Windhorst]

So. And I'm not, I'm not trying to say like, that I'm an orthopedic surgeon and I can identify the difference. You know, not every Achilles tear, I'm sure, is created equal. But the point is, it took him 13 months. But the reason that this is the second part of the point here and the reason why this is so fascinating is that the Eastern Conference is an absolute wide open, no idea race.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Sure.

[Brian Windhorst]

And if Tatum comes back, the Celtics are basically, in my view, the favorites.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Agreed. Agreed.

[Brian Windhorst]

And people are like, do they. Is there pressure for him to come back? Is there pressure, Brian? Is there pressure? And I'm like, well, he's a champion. He's got a $300 million contract. He's, you know, he's made first team all NBA. Like, he doesn't know. There's not pressure. Like, it's like, it's not like the. The Celtics are coming in every day and staring him in the eye and going, is today the day, Jason? Is today the day? You know, but of course, there's not pressure. You know, it's fine. But Jason can see the east like everybody else. The Celtics can see the east. If the Celtics were in 12th place, we wouldn't be talking about this. The Celtics are in second.

[Jingle Singer]

Yeah.

[Brian Windhorst]

And that's why it's complicated in a lot of ways for Jason. I kind of wish they were in 12th because then this wouldn't be something he'd have to worry about. Now he, you know, whether they say it or not, he's got two eyes. He understands that if he comes back, it could be the difference between the Celtics making the finals or not. So that's why it's complicated. And they're. And they're not. They're going to try not to put pressure on him, but, you know, it is what it is.

[Tony Kornheiser]

It'll be self imposed more than anything else. He'll want to get back. He's got a championship ring. He'll want to get back. I'd enjoy the get up show. It's two hours long. Don't fall asleep. How great would that be if you

[Brian Windhorst]

fell worry about me in the NBA today for that. I'm fine right now.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay. All right. Thank you, Brian.

[Ryan McGee]

All right.

[Brian Windhorst]

Take care, Tony.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Brian Windhorst. We love Brian Windhorst. We will take a break. Ryan McGee will join us when we return. I have. I still have that lingering question about the end of the Daytona 500. Right. It's only been six months, but I have that lingering question. I'm Tony Kornhouse.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

You're listening to the Tony Kornheiser Show. The Tony Kornheiser show.

[Bombo Genesis (musical interlude)]

My name is BOMBO GENESIS I'm 7ft 2, I threw my 8th no hitter wearing Dodger Blue I scored 116 points against the New York Knicks and every time I touch the pick my team's good for six I won 13, Wimbledon's 11, Masters two I broke all Gretzky's records and the Vetzkins too I've never bowled the load of 300 no, not once Next to me Isaac Newton stupid Einstein is a nut against the horses I'm a menaces Bill Shoemaker my nemesis Genesis not really Bombo Genesis is a demon on the track I'll outrun Secretariat I'm better than the Beatles can't beat me at any game I'm 72 nothing I can't do Bombo Genesis is my

[Tony Kornheiser]

name Dan Byrne Bombo Genesis is my name I was so happy yesterday that I got Bombo Genesis into the lead of the college basketball St. John's thing. That a Bombo Genesis dropped on Rick pitino and number 15, St. John's well done. Anyway, Dan Byrne plays in Ryan McGee. That made me so happy to do that. To say Bombo Genesis on television. Do you ever have something like that where you're doing some larger piece or whatever and it pleases you tremendously to get in some phrase that you think is yours and nobody else's?

[Ryan McGee]

Oh, yeah. And first of all, I will have that song in my head for the rest of my life.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Ryan McGee]

What in the hell was that? That was amazing.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, it's Dan Burn. Dan Burns. Brilliant. He writes songs for us all the time. He's brilliant. He's brilliant.

[Ryan McGee]

Well, I tell this too. So if you, if, if you ever listening to NASCAR on the radio, like on a Sunday. The Motor Racing Network, MRN have been around forever. Founded by Ken Squire.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Ryan McGee]

And. But they have a game they play, and just prior to the race, someone will throw out some random word they found from some 7,000 page thesaurus. And the goal is everyone has to work that word into the broadcast.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's great.

[Ryan McGee]

And so you're like, why are they all talking about an amalgamum or whatever in the middle, you know, of a pit stop? I learned a lot of my fancy words was from MRN radio.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I really like that. I like that. I just was so thrilled to get Bombo Genesis into the PTI show. Just made me so happy. All right, look, we don't do a lot of nascar, but some stuff has popped up on my radar because of people that I know. I know Joe Gibbs. I covered Joe Gibbs in the other life when he won three Super Bowls as coach in Washington. I know Michael Jordan. I know these people. Michael Jordan was in a lawsuit, if I'm not mistaken, against nascar. How is that. And now he just won the Daytona and I think he may have won another race as well.

[Ryan McGee]

How.

[Tony Kornheiser]

What is, is there fallout? Is everything good? Do they love Michael Jordan?

[Ryan McGee]

You know, it's really interesting because they did not love him, you know, just a few months ago. And it was an interesting spot for NASCAR because so I've been doing. I've been covering NASCAR 31 years. Right. And so I. There have been so many times where I've attended press conferences where celebrities from Hollywood or recording artists or stick and ball athletes are going to. We're going to own a NASCAR team.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Ryan McGee]

I mean, I'm talking Brett Favre, you know, the Wayans brothers. I mean, it's a long list. I mean, Dr. J and Joe Washington had a team for a While. And even when they would make it work, Troy Aikman and Roger Staubach, it wouldn't make it work. It would only last a couple of years. And you never see them. They come to Daytona, and then you wouldn't see him at Martinsville or Pocono or Dover or whatever during the year. Michael's there all the time, and he's really, really, really involved. Goes to the team meetings on Mondays, and he's there. He's been to both races this year, and they won both of them. And NASCAR was in a weird spot because, of course, you want to promote that. Michael Jordan is not only an owner, but he's really involved, and he's got some really good race car drivers, but not while he's suing you for anti.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yes.

[Ryan McGee]

And so now it was weird because it was so NASCAR that the first race won after this super contentious. It got really personal, this lawsuit.

[Brian Windhorst]

And.

[Ryan McGee]

And. And it was settled out of court. It was. It was a win for. For Michael Jordan, but it was sold out of court. But the best thing that could have happened, as weird as it was, was that they win the Daytona 500. Because I was in victory lane and Michael Jordan was there, and he was hugging it out with the NASCAR executives, and so everybody's okay. I was with the president of NASCAR on Monday at the Sports Business journal convention in St. Louis, and he's like, we're good. You know, as awful as it was, you know, now we're all on the same page. And, you know, Michael's already a better NASCAR executive than he was an NBA executive.

[Tony Kornheiser]

This does not surprise me. He grew up in North Carolina like Brad Dougherty Ryan. His interest is genuine. Right. This is not because he's rich and famous and it's a toy. It's a genuine interest, and it comes from his dad.

[Ryan McGee]

You know, we all know the story about James and his father, but when he was a kid growing up in Wilmington, he and his dad and his uncle, they would go to races at Rockingham, my hometown. They go to Darlington. They go to Charlotte Motor Speedway, and they would just sit in the chicken bone section and, you know, root for Richard Patty or whatever. And so. So he. He grew up a real race fan. And so. Yeah, yeah. And he owned. He owned. He owned a superbike team, a motorcycle racing forever while he was playing. And. But he's. He's legit. And. And Brad Daugherty, I give Brad. Brad's a friend of mine. Brad was a co worker of ours at ESPN for years. Brad won the Daytona 500 as the team owner. And Brad forever was just begging Michael to come and be a part of it. But part of Michael's reservation was that confederate flag. You know, why would I go be

[Brian Windhorst]

a part of that?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Right, right.

[Ryan McGee]

And once that went away, all of a sudden, Michael's all in, and now he has a chance to win a championship.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I need to ask this. It's been bothering me for. Since the Daytona went off. I've told it, told this story before. This was in the middle of pebble beach, and we were waiting and waiting endlessly for Jacob Bridgman to get a ruling with his feet in the Pacific Ocean and the ball in the sand and the rocks. It, like, took an hour. So I flipped over to the Daytona. I got very lucky. There's three laps left. That's all I want to see. And then on the last lap, you're there. So you can vouch for this. There's two crashes right near the lead. Two crashes. They affect the order of the race, and they don't drop the yellow flag. Is that. Obviously, that's a conscious decision to let the race go on? Is this new. Is this the new world order in nascar?

[Ryan McGee]

Well, so at Daytona, the nature of the racing, which is, you know, if you've seen days of thunder rip Robert Duvall, there's a great explanation of how that racing works. They're all very. They're aerodynamically tied together. You can't make a move unless you have help, unless you have some car, a line of cars behind you to push you through the air. And so the nature of that, plus the cars that we have now, they are truly stock cars. Like, these cars are nearly identical. And then the talent level right now is. Is off the chart from the. From the top of the garage to the bottom. And so it's parity. And so the way the Daytona 500 has been for more than a decade now is you just hold your breath and you try to be in a position with the last couple laps to go. Now, about the caution, it's all about where the crash is. So what you saw was there was only one lap to go, and the crash happened behind where the leaders were. And so race control, which are the guys sitting in the room, and they're watching everything. What they determined was, was that there was no risk of them having to drive through that crash again at full speed. So it was. It was behind them. They would have taken the checker flag and they would have slowed down by the time they got back around to it. So it's all about, it's really all about the positioning of where the crash is. And then also, you know, my dad was a college football referee. There were certain penalties you called in the fourth quarter that you didn't call in the second quarter or vice versa. And so sometimes when two laps to go, you know, you're not going to create a dangerous situation, but you probably might, you probably might be a little slower to throw the caution than you are, you know, 10 laps into the race.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I have to tell you, it was thrilling. I thought it was closer to lead than you did. And there were people spinning around, you know, two cars back and, and they said keep going. I just thought that was great. Is maybe that's the de facto new rule in a race like that.

[Ryan McGee]

Yeah, and it's just how they're built, but. Yeah, but it is, but it's all about, and they used to do what we call racing back to the line. And so no matter where the crash was, if the caution came out, you raced until you got all the way back around to the start finish line. And then I was, I was at a race in New Hampshire Motor Speedway 20 years ago and I thought Bill Jarrett was going to die because Dale Jarrett was literally sitting in the middle of the front stretch and the field was racing back around to the, to the start finish line and they had to avoid him. And that's when we went, okay, that's that this is probably unsafe, but. Yeah, but it's, but it's, it's a ball and strike call. But you're right. Me, Bill Elliott, son, Chase, who's still not won the Daytona 500 and he's won a championship. He was going to win the race and he got wrecked with a lap to go and lo and behold, Michael Jordan was in victory lane.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yes. Yes. Okay. The Joe Gibbs lawsuit. What is that? What is that?

[Ryan McGee]

So it's interesting because these things have happened before, but now we're live. It's funny, I went to the media center Daytona and I saw all my friends from the Associated Press and from the Athletic and, and I'm like, man, great job covering that trial. And they're all like, we kind of miss it. Like it was, it was, it was something different for, for the NASCAR media to cover this big trial. Well now they got another one and I think they're really excited to cover the trial. But the deal is you have essentially the general manager of the race team like the man, Chris Gabard, the man who really was running the day to day operations at Joe Gibbs Racing left and went to another race team. And Joe Gibbs's group now arguing that he took all the secrets with him.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Ryan McGee]

That, you know, he took the playbook. You know, it's no different than a coach. It's no different than Link Kiffin, you know, leaving and going to another program and trying to get all his coaching staff and players and all that to go with it.

[Brian Windhorst]

So it's. It's.

[Ryan McGee]

But that's what the lawsuit is, is that. Is that he took secrets. And we see this a lot in Formula one. You know, you'll have a prince, a team principal who's been at a state, let's say a Ferrari for years and won a lot of races. And all of a sudden he announces he's going to McLaren or he's going to Mercedes or whatever, and then suddenly those cars start looking a lot like the cars where he was. But, you know, that's. That's why you hired him. So that's what's right, that you ask

[Tony Kornheiser]

him to bring intellectual property with him. Of course you do. You hire him.

[Ryan McGee]

But the question is, how long. How long in advance did you know you were going to take that job and were you siphoning off secrets? Because in years past, a lot of times we have silly season, and a driver will announce, okay, I'm going to leave Joe Gibbs Racing and I'm going to Hendrick Motorsports a year from now. And they used to just let him stick around. And eventually they're like, okay, you got to go.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Gotta go now.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah.

[Ryan McGee]

At least you can't sit in the meetings.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Brian Windhorst]

So that's.

[Ryan McGee]

That's where that's coming from. And, and, you know, and yeah, all my friends who suddenly think they're court reporters.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Good.

[Ryan McGee]

They're really excited about this.

[Jingle Singer]

Good.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I appreciate that. I want to just lean on you. A couple of college football things. One is just sort of general. What are your thoughts on these college athletes attempting to continue in college till they're in their mid-40s? I mean, collecting nil money? Is there. What is this?

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, I just. I still.

[Ryan McGee]

My feeling is like. Like there's some guys still playing for sixth and seventh year, and they've had these devastating injuries or, you know, we still have a small handful of COVID players left.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Right.

[Ryan McGee]

Everybody got a free Pass for 2020. And. And I get that. But what I don't get, I mean, if you. If you're on campus and you're still on campus, I don't necessarily like it, but I kind of get it.

[Brian Windhorst]

There's a.

[Ryan McGee]

There's a direct line there. What I don't like is when you left and you've gone and done something else. And, you know, if. If Jim Thorpe got his Olympic medals taken away because he played a little bit of baseball, Eastern North Carolina, then, you know, we're gonna let these guys play professional sports and then come back. It's just, once you've left college, you've left college. And, you know, if I decide I want to go back to grad school, you know, I have no eligibility, right? That's just how that works. And so I. That part drives me crazy. The thing at Alabama was insanity. And what I don't like is, and this is why something like the ncaa, whether it's that title or not, has to exist. There has to be a bad guy. There has to be, you know, someone that. Roger Goodell knows what his job is. His job is to get booed, right? He can live with that. And so there needs to be some entity like that where you can. You can point to them and go, you know, you. You have to make these guys only stick around for so many years. There's got to be some sort of rules and there has to be a bad guy. But I just. I just. That drives me bonkers. Like, I just leaving college and then coming back and acting like you never left. It's like the guy at your high school who is the captain of the state championship team, and he still hangs out in the parking lot six years later. Get the hell out of here.

[Brian Windhorst]

We're trying to.

[Ryan McGee]

We're trying to be in college.

[Tony Kornheiser]

And on that note, thank you, Ryan. This is just. It's a great joy for me when you come on the show. Thank you very much.

[Ryan McGee]

Thank you. Tony Kornheiser.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Brian McKee. Really good. We'll take a break. We will come back with email and jingle. I'm Tony Kornheiser.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

You're listening to the Tony Kornheiser show.

[Producer/Assistant (possibly Gina or similar)]

1, 2, 3, 4.

[Jingle Singer]

Here comes Tony's mailbag. Got your email, faxes and your notes. Here comes Mr. Tony's mailbag. Gonna read some for all of you folks.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Greg Rosendahl, Lindsey Merrill. Very pleasant, very nice. You want to do the Bethesda Bagel ad for us?

[Producer/Assistant (possibly Gina or similar)]

Yes, Bethesda Bagels. We love them. You will as well just go to Bethesda Bagels.com for the location in the DC area nearest you. Then pop on in and you'll be thrilled.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Before we get to the mailbag, let me just say I'm gonna quote some lyrics here by one of the great geniuses ever of modern day music, Paul Simon. And these lyrics, all of his lyrics are fabulous. These are particularly fabulous from the Boxer I am just a poor boy Though my story is seldom told, I have squandered my resistance For a pocket full of mumbles. Such a promises all lies and jests. Still the man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest. Just totally brilliant. Thanks to our guest today, Brian Windhorst. Ryan McGee. Thanks as well to today's sponsors. Remember, you can listen to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and Audacy if you get the show through Apple. Please leave us a review from our friend Harry Hawkins Dear Dr. Tony, Love that Nigel closed Monday's show with the Herb Brooks speech. Took me right back to the night you and Wilbon convinced me to jeopardize my Columbia employment by delivering that same speech doing a full on impression of Bob Dolan hyping up the A Team at Dolan's own first tea charity event. A real career strategy masterclass. Nevertheless, it's still one of my core memories. And yes, Bob reminds me of it every single time I see him. If you or Michael want the video, I'm happy to send it. It'll absolutely Crush with the 15 people who get the joke. You should do it.

[Nigel]

I'll share it with Clint Sanchez.

[Brian Windhorst]

He'll get it.

[Tony Kornheiser]

John and Herndon the Capital Weather Gang was pulling your leg with Bombo Genesis. It's the new model from the Hyundai luxury line. I believe if you watched the golf tournament this past weekend, it was the car they were giving away for hole in one at the Genesis Invitational. I grew up in Rhode island and was there during the storm in 1978. It had the previous record for snowfall during a storm, which was probably about 30 inches with snow drifts up to the second floor of our house. Back in the old days we called it a blizzard. From Bombo. When you shouted Bombo on Wednesday's pod, you knocked me out of my chair. You see, that's my name. Well, not really. It's actually a nickname I received from my softball buddies from Northwestern. Back in the 70s. Bombo Rivera was playing in the MLB and his last name is similar to mine. So I became Bombo. Fast forward 40 years and my daughter was having our first grandchild. Would I be called Grandpa, Papa or Pops? Heck no. I am Bombo. This was emphasized by my four year old granddaughter Elsie. Recently we were at the playground and she said, watch this Bombo. The girl next to her said, why do you call him Bombo? Elsie replied simply, because that's his name. David Rivers. Bombo.

[Producer/Assistant (possibly Gina or similar)]

What's his name? Oh, yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Bombo.

[Nigel]

Bombo. Big hitter.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Mark Lynch, Camby, Indiana. Thank you for having Todd Harris on the show and making it crystal clear. What a bombo. Genesis 14:40 with a little twist actually is. Chris McKenzie. I listen. Is this the new game? That's funny. That's funny. Adam Lolly, Seattle, Washington. I don't have a gub, but I listen. In fact, I'm probably listening as you read this. P.S. i hate the Seahawks, even though he's from Seattle. George Millay. This is probably too late for Friday's show. No, it's not. But our boy Kenny McPeak has the prohibitive favorite entered in Sunday's Rebel Stakes at Oak Lawn in Arkansas. It's a Kentucky Derby prep race. Brian Hernandez, who wrote Road Mystic Dan to victory in the 24 Derby, will be in the irons aboard Blackout time. Blackout time is 8 to 5 on the morning line, so we aren't going to make much money. But I'm going to put together some exotics. There are other great horses in this grade two stake. I don't like any of them better than Kenny Steed. And then there's a picture, you know that George Kenny wins. Yes, from Chris Campbell. Mr. Tony, some very important news this weekend. It's not another snowstorm. 6pm Sunset. Friday sunset will be 559-59pm and on Saturday we will break 6pm Evening golf on the horizon.

[Producer/Assistant (possibly Gina or similar)]

We made it.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay, I got the grill cover from Chuck and Roxy. Chuck and Roxy here. And happy to update you on episode 200, Rick Davins. Or is it Devins or Davens? I think it's Devin's and his Survivor status. First off, it airs on Wednesday evenings, not Tuesday, so Nigel will have to reset the board to zero on that one. Rick's tribe didn't do so well as they were the losers of the first immunity challenge and had to go to tribal council where the first player from season 50 was voted off. Luckily, Rick was not even on a hot seat as they say, and he indeed did survive the first week. We go into much more detail than you would ever want to know on the llp which will drop this weekend. That's the podcast, right? I'm guessing no need for one of us to be deemed the official Rick Devins car Updale email correspondent of the TK show. But speaking of this, can Roxy be the official Radio City Rockette of the Tony Kornheiser show. And where does this leave poor Chuck? Any suggestions, Chuck? And Roxy, of course, she can be. Yes, of course. She's a rock.

[Producer/Assistant (possibly Gina or similar)]

She's a Rockette.

[Tony Kornheiser]

It's such an. It's such an accomplishment.

[Producer/Assistant (possibly Gina or similar)]

It really is very cool.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Really good. Tom Targonoski, Sioux City, Iowa I have an extra ticket to the Arnold Schwarzenegger Sports Festival. You hit. I've met Arnold.

[Producer/Assistant (possibly Gina or similar)]

You have?

[Tony Kornheiser]

I've met Arnold, Yes. Arnold. That is quite charming. Yeah. From Jeff Piggott in West Des Moines, Iowa, the official golf club fitter of the Tony Kornheiser Show. During early season PGA events, my eyes are focused on new gear played by the pros. Lots of good stuff for you in 2026, but that's for another email. What caught my eye during the west coast swing was not gear, but apparel. Witness Tommy Fleetwood. His Nike apparel contract expired. Now he appears to be shopping in the local pro shop each week sporting the pebble beach and Riviera logos. He did also branch out to the Sunday Red brand, likely homage to Genesis host Tiger Woods. If this pattern continues, would you refer to it as a booger McFarlane type situation? Also wishing success to all Des Moines area players in Monday's Seminole Pro. Member is that next this coming week?

[Nigel]

It's the Monday after the Palm beach tournament.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That is. That's one of the greatest collections of golfers in the world. It really is. Yeah, they're playing at PGA national this week. They call it. They say it's the Cognizant.

[Nigel]

A diluted field.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. And. Oh, absolutely, a diluted field. But what they say is it's been going on for 82 years. No, it hasn't. Not as the Cognizant tournament. Yeah, the Honda was there for a million years.

[Nigel]

It's the issue with signature events.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Stephen Good, Fayetteville, Arkansas what a pleasant surprise it was to listen to Wednesday's show and hear Rat Boys as the guests play in music. I was already excited to see him at George's Majestic lounge in Fayetteville, Arkansas on March 26th. And now I find the lead singer as A Little as well. In the spirit of Little's Helping Littles, I have some local recommendations for the band when they get to town. Avoid College Avenue on the way to town. Ongoing construction causes daily backups. Farrell's Taste of Thai, Yugos and Puritan are go to restaurants and cafes close to the venue. Fossil Cove and Crisis Brewing are great breweries in town. Recommended watering holes close to the venue include Kingfish, Brusque and Maxine's Block Street Records is the Go to record store in town is a 10 minute walk from the venue and if time allows, there are quick scenic hikes around Lake Fayetteville and at Devil's Den State Park. Anyway, I will have on my Chatter shirt for the show on the 26th that the band is looking for someone to whom they can give the TK salute. That's lovely. From Mike Limerick in Indianapolis I'm riding from a lengthy line at the Potbelly Sandwich Shop in downtown Indianapolis. As I walked in the store, two men in Raiders gear were in front of me. I presume to grab a quick lunch and head back to the combine. Just now two more have walked in and out and cut the line to join their colleagues. I'm pretty sure taking shortcuts is how you wind up with the number one pick.

[Ryan McGee]

What do I know?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Mark Hughes Ashton, MD Dear Skipper, While in Slovenia last year I visited the country's Olympic Ski jump center. The tallest jump they train on is the second highest jump in the world. To my delight. During the off season, you can take a zip line from the top of the highest jump and it simulates the path a ski jumper would take. Of course we did this. You are correct that the skiers are a little more than 15ft off the ground after jumping. However, when you stand at the top of the jump and you look down, it is terrifying even when locked into a zip line. I was thrilled to see Domin Previc of Slovenia win the gold in the individual men's jump and the Slovenian team win the mixed team competition. Maybe not a David Aldrich moment, but at least I can say I experienced a small bit of what these athletes experience in training from Rob Lowe. Not that Rob Lowe in North Royalton, Ohio. Oh, Captain, my Captain. There's something wonderful about the fact that you were discussing parking chairs in the opening segment of a sports podcast. Well, an alleged sports podcast. That being said, with all of your bigs that have connections to Pittsburgh, I am shocked, shocked that you did not know about the noble and glorious tradition of the parking chair. I did not. Throughout all of Pittsburgh, people will mark their personal concrete street territory with folding chairs. Those chairs are considered sacred and no one will move them or park in that space. Will people get angry? Absolutely not. We know the rule and if someone marks the territory before you, you tip your cap and you move on. Yes, you may have to walk to get from your car to home, but that is the way you accept the rule of the street. If this is now beginning to happen in the dmv. Your society has evolved. And frankly, for the better. Embrace it, good doctor. You'll see, the world will get better. I don't know. From Scotty Baker, the unofficial Egyptian archaeologist of the Tony Cornhezer show in Berrien Springs, Michigan. Every day I'm at the temple in Karnak, reading, it says, I'm listening. Every day I'm at the temple in Karnak reading and recording hieroglyphs. You are in my ear, bringing joy to my day. Of course, when I'm stateside, you are too. But the Egypt thing is so much cooler. Dimension. Yes.

[Producer/Assistant (possibly Gina or similar)]

In Karnak, listening to the show.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. That's nice. I went to high school and college with a person named Jimmy Romano, who is no longer with us. He was an Egyptologist. Oh, really? Yes. There was a very, very great teacher at Binghamton. Harper College. At Harper College, Gerald Kadish. And he was degreed in all sorts of archaeological and Egyptology things. And Jimmy became an Egyptologist because of that and ran the Egyptology department of the Brooklyn Museum of Art.

[Jingle Singer]

Oh, wow.

[Nigel]

For a while this is nickname Indy.

[Tony Kornheiser]

It was not. Not Indy Jones. Dr. Jones. It was not that. Okay. In the postal system. Law and Order post office unit. In the postal system, the people are represented by two separate yet equally important groups. The mail carriers who deliver the letters and the detectives who find out where the hell your mail actually went. These are their stories. Well, actually, it's only Tony. Stories about the decline of America due not to the economy of foreign policy, nor politics or immigration, but lost mail. Yes, yes. There's one on Law and Order season one, episode four Return to Sender. In one episode, Tony's bills are not getting to the collectors, only to find out it wasn't a thief but his son Michael trying to get him set up with online bill pay. He needed the checks to get his routing number and bank account. In another episode, a Littles, Robin Hood of sorts diverted the mail from Tony when he thought walking the mail into the post office was the way to go. A fake mail drop was set up to intercept the mail and stop the money from leaving Tony's account to help him pay for the breakfast value meal at McDonald's. Afrin for his grandkids. Well, at least now it's for them. And oil at his Rehoboth house. Little's helping pigs. So I had this talk with Al Serafino last night.

[Producer/Assistant (possibly Gina or similar)]

What did he say?

[Tony Kornheiser]

He said, I pay everything online. You've got to start paying online. He said, get Michael to Do this for you. I said I was going to go to the bank. He looked at me.

[Ryan McGee]

Or they could help you.

[Tony Kornheiser]

What do you do? Going to the bank? Yeah. Get Michael to help you. Yeah. Because I've got it. He said, you have to climb the steps into the new world.

[Producer/Assistant (possibly Gina or similar)]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I said, I don't like the new World.

[Nigel]

Pretty soon you'll have to make your own tea times.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I can't do that. Yeah, I have to call the pro shop. It's this Tony Korn high. So I can't do it. And they say, don't worry, we touch. Aaron in Milwaukee. Catching up on Monday's show. Does this sum up calls with Wilbond or does this sum up calls with Wilbon? Tony, were you surprised that the gold medal hockey game ended the way it did, with a meteor hitting the arena and causing a global mass extinction event? Wilbon. Not necessarily. Shouting you by tight. Everyone, as always do wear white. She may get woolly. Stop it. Not the song.

[Producer/Assistant (possibly Gina or similar)]

Because of all the stress.

[Tony Kornheiser]

No, stop.

[Ryan McGee]

Yeah.

[Jingle Singer]

Sam. Praying for time Digging up again who knows what you'll find? Middle ground is clay like red soil and I'm waiting for the water to

[Ryan McGee]

boil

[Jingle Singer]

and it's a blessing that you took reason and you try. Excuse me, monsieur. These things you say you said don't seem sure. Underneath the space of holy divine. Here's a river run into a rock made of land. And it's a blessing that you took reason and you took try. Build a home Strong wood, stone shelter from the stone.

[Ryan McGee]

Strong

[Brian Windhorst]

stone,

[Jingle Singer]

shelter from stone. Put the kids to bed save for next month's rest. What heaven says is why. And it's a blessing that you took reason. You tried. You try. It.

[Bombo Genesis (musical interlude)]

My name is BOMBO GENESIS I'm 7ft 2, I threw my 8th no hitter wearing Dodger Blue I scored 116 points against the New York Knicks and every time I touch the pigskin my team good for six I won 13 Wimbledons, 11 Masters, two I broke all Gretzky's records and Ovechens too I've never bowled the load of 300 no, not once Next to me, Isaac Newton Stupid Einstein Is a nut against the horses I'm a menaces Bill Shoemaker my nemesis not really. Bamboo Genesis is a demon on the track I'll outrun Secretariat I'm better than the Beatles can't beat me at any game I'm seven two nothing I can't do Bamboo Genesis is my name.