“Rory’s Glory”

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Rory’s Glory" - The Tony Kornheiser Show

Introduction In the April 14, 2025 episode of "The Tony Kornheiser Show," hosted by This Show Stinks Productions, LLC, Tony Kornheiser delves deep into Rory McIlroy's stunning performance at the Masters. Joined by regular guests Michael Wilbon and Steve Sands, the trio dissects every pivotal moment of the tournament, offering insightful analysis and engaging commentary. This episode serves as both a celebration of Rory's achievement and a comprehensive breakdown of his journey to becoming a Masters champion.

Rory McIlroy's Journey to the Masters Victory

Early Struggles and Doubles The episode opens with Tony highlighting Rory McIlroy's initial struggles during the tournament. After a promising start, Rory faced setbacks with double bogeys that seemed to jeopardize his chances of winning. Tony remarks, “If you just dropped in on Sunday, Rory was the star of The Masters, from beginning to end” (05:00), emphasizing Rory's prominence despite the challenges.

Michael Wilbon adds perspective, noting the rarity of multiple doubles in a tournament winner, stating, “He shoots himself out of it. Wilbon and I are sure he's done” (06:23). Steve Sands concurs, pointing out the statistical improbability of winning after such setbacks: “He has four doubles in the tournament. It's never happened. So he shoots himself out of it” (05:56).

Resilience and Comeback Despite the early disappointments, Rory's resilience shines through. Tony describes how Rory rebounded by shooting consecutive 66s on Friday and Saturday, shifting the momentum. “The winner averages one double per tournament. And some of these happen where Scotty Scheffler four putts to get to that double” (06:23). However, Rory defied these odds by maintaining composure and pushing forward.

Steve Sands highlights Rory's strategic play, especially on critical holes: “He hits a driver that's about 350 some odd yards off the tee, sets up a pretty straightforward birdie on a tough opening hole” (09:25). This strategic approach was pivotal in Rory regaining his footing in the tournament.

Key Moments and Turning Points The conversation delves into specific moments that defined Rory's path to victory. Notably, his performance on the back nine bolstered his lead, culminating in a dramatic finish. Tony vividly recounts Rory's critical mises on holes 13 and 18: “At 18, he puts it in the sand” (12:43) and later, “He didn’t do it. He misses it” (31:15), highlighting the pressure and the narrow margins of success in golf.

Despite these setbacks, Rory's determination never wavered. Steve elaborates on Rory's mental fortitude: “His resilience, Tony, his perseverance is something underrated” (52:06). Tony echoes this sentiment, praising Rory's emotional response upon securing the win: “When he won it, he went down on the ground and started weeping” (17:14).

Analysis of Rory's Grand Slam Potential A significant portion of the discussion centers around Rory McIlroy's potential to achieve the Grand Slam, a feat accomplished by only a select few in golf history. Tony muses, “If he wins again, he would join Jack Nicklaus, Tiger Woods, Ben Hogan, Gary Player, Gene Sarazen” (04:38). This places Rory among the golfing immortals, underscoring the magnitude of his achievement.

Michael Wilbon adds context by comparing the Grand Slam in golf to other sports: “Any list of golf has Arnold Palmer on the big wall. Sure. So don’t you know” (04:11). The guests agree that Rory's victory not only cements his legacy but also sets the stage for future successes.

Comparisons with Other Golf Legends Throughout the episode, Tony and his guests draw parallels between Rory and other legendary golfers, particularly Bryson DeChambeau. They explore the dynamics of their rivalry and mutual respect, noting how past encounters have influenced their current performances. Tony reflects, “Bryson DeChambeau, who does not choke, although what he did Sunday, middle and late, wasn't great” (07:48), emphasizing Bryson's steadiness contrasted with Rory's dramatic fluctuations.

Steve Sands provides deeper analysis on Bryson's gameplay, highlighting key moments where Bryson's precision complemented Rory's strategy: “Bryson plays a smart low iron to the front portion” (10:18). This tactical interplay added layers of excitement to the tournament, making it a must-watch event.

Emotional and Psychological Aspects The emotional weight of the tournament is a recurring theme. Tony notes Rory's emotional journey, from initial despair to triumphant relief: “He has everything now and, and you now believe he will win three or four more majors” (16:33). The guests discuss the psychological pressures of maintaining a lead in high-stakes environments, particularly in golf where single shots can alter the course of the game.

Gary Braun shares personal anecdotes, emphasizing the emotional investment fans have in Rory's performance: “I give him full credit for just laying out of the sofa and bearing his soul” (27:42). This humanizes Rory, portraying him not just as an athlete but as a person navigating intense pressure.

Memorable Quotes

• Tony Kornheiser: “He was the star of this from beginning to end. And when he won it, he went down on the ground and started weeping, which is the absolute correct response.” (17:14)

• Steve Sands: “Rory and DeChambeau have separated themselves from everybody else. At the end of Thursday, he makes a great putt on 18. And some of us in texts wrote to people who that's a momentum builder.” (05:56)

• Michael Wilbon: “His resilience, Tony, his perseverance is something underrated. He has come back, you know, a lot of times from some seriously, seriously tough situations.” (52:06)

Concluding Insights The episode wraps up by lauding Rory McIlroy's historic Masters win, framing it as one of the most dramatic and memorable golf tournaments ever witnessed. Tony reflects on the potential ramifications of this victory for Rory's career and the sport itself: “It might be from beginning to end, because Rory was the lead actor in all of it” (18:00). The guests concur, suggesting that Rory's triumph may inspire future generations and elevate the standards of competitive golf.

Michael Wilbon underscores the uniqueness of Rory's achievement compared to past legends, positioning his victory as a landmark moment in sports history: “Winning the career Grand Slam in men's golf is the single most difficult achievement in all of sports. That's what happened yesterday.” (56:05).

Conclusion "Rory’s Glory" offers an in-depth exploration of Rory McIlroy's extraordinary performance at the Masters, blending expert analysis with passionate fan perspectives. Through detailed discussions, memorable quotes, and emotional narratives, Tony Kornheiser and his guests celebrate a defining moment in golf, highlighting both the triumphs and tribulations that led Rory to secure his place among the sport's all-time greats.

Transcript

[Tony Kornheiser]

Hey, it's Tony. On today's show, we're going to talk a lot about Rory winning his first Masters. We'll talk about it first amongst ourselves and then with Michael Wilbon and Steve Sands. But first, let's do a little commerce. Today's episode is presented by bank of America who supports everyone determined to find out what's possible in golf and in life. Find out [e-mail] MastersGolf bank of America NA Member FDIC Copyright 2025 bank of America Corporation. All rights reserved. Let's shift to another topic that's always on my mind. The future of golf. Today's most impactful players aren't just on the pro circuit. They're everywhere. For starters, there's one, a 14 year old, one armed golfing prodigy Tommy Morrissey since the age of three. Yes, three. This kid could drive it down the fairway like a legend. Then there's pro golfer Gabby Barker, who's inspiring more girls to get in the game. And Renee Fluker is giving kids in our community life lessons through golf lessons. Her midnight golf program has helped thousands of kids build brighter futures. Right now we're seeing the game grow in ways some never thought possible. I, on the other hand, always knew that golf had limitless potential to bring people together. Bank of America supports everyone determined to find out what's possible in golf and in life. Meet more game changing [e-mail] MastersGolf what would you like the power to do? Bank of America NA Member FDIC Copyright 2025 bank of America Corporation all rights reserved.

[Michael Wilbon]

Previously on the Tony Korniser show and the Practice Round.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I mean, you know, if you win the lottery and for people who might.

[Steve Sands]

Want to do such a thing, I mean, they go to enter it every year. Did you say you do, Mike? No, I have in the past and I would just say everyone enter it. Just enter any day you have the.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Same chance as anyone else.

[Steve Sands]

I mean, Gary, I'm member and you didn't ask me.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Oh, you're a member all right.

[Michael Wilbon]

The Tony Kornheiser show is on now.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So Gary Braun talking about Augusta gets us in the mood to talk about Augusta, which we're going to do all day long. That's today's show. We're going to have Wilbon on who watch? We're going to have Sands on who watched because he was there. And then we're going to talk because we all watched. I had planned to go out and play golf in the morning and I went to Columbia. And it was really cold and really windy, and there were no carts until 11. And I knew I could get out between 11 and 12. But if it's close, if I tried to play, I wasn't gonna see all of it. And I wanted to see all of it. Yeah. So I just said, okay, I'll just go home.

[Steve Sands]

Not gonna go old school and only watch the second nine.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I watched all of it. I was there before it started, before the network coverage started to drop on my phone, watching it on my phone as Michael taught me how to do. By the way, it is Michael's birthday. April is a big birthday month. Nigel had a birthday in April. Garcia had a birthday in April. Michael's is today. Gary. Yeah, was recently. Liz is in nine days. Yeah. So big April only. Thank you.

[Steve Sands]

I'll make sure to call you tonight.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, thank you. I appreciate that. So I sat in front of the tv and I did nothing else. I did not look at the gnats. I know. I got notes from Cillizza and Chuck Todd about the Nats. I didn't look at the gnats yet. I don't care. Yeah, I didn't care. I wanted to watch every shot that was available to me at the US Open. Because what was at stake was Rory McIlroy joining a very, very small list of golfing immortals. They are not golf's only immortals. They are now six, but five previous people who had won every single major. That is Jack Nicklaus, the greatest player of all time. Tiger woods, the second greatest player of all time. Ben Hogan, Gary Player, Gene Saracen. And that is an elite group of people that Rory would join if he were to win again. Look, any list of golf has Arnold Palmer on the big wall. Sure. So don't you know.

[Steve Sands]

And the Grand Slam is a more modern understanding of the majors and what the majors are, because he's include the USA and something like that.

[Tony Kornheiser]

And I would tell you that, for example, in tennis, Andre Agassi has the Grand Slam, has all the majors. Nobody would say that Andre Agassi is a better player than Jimmy Connors or John McNamara. Nobody would say that. Or Pete Sampras. Nobody would say it. Yeah. But it is an honor that puts you in a special category. You said Gene Sarazin, not Gene Cornish. Not Gene Cornish of the Rascals, though he. Had he taken up golf, I think he'd have won them all. So Rory's out there and Rory. Now, you need. You need to understand this. If you just dropped in on Sunday, Rory was the star of The Masters, from beginning to end. There were other actors who came into play. Justin Rose shot 65 the first day.

[Steve Sands]

66.

[Tony Kornheiser]

66 the first day. Justin Rose, he had the lead. He came back at the end. He was a major player in this. Bryson Dechambeau and you know, in round three and the beginning of round four was a major player in this. Ludwig Oberg could have been, had he not blown up at the end. He could have won this thing. There was a period of time where I thought, Ludwig Oberg is going to win this thing. A minor player in the larger drama of Rory, because they were not head to head, but a player in this thing. Scottie Scheffler never had the round you thought he was going to have. Never had the 65, 66, but was. But was someone on the board all week and you had to pay attention. But from beginning to end, from beginning to end, it was Rory McIlroy. And the torture began. McElroy was four under on Thursday, then doubled the second par five.

[Steve Sands]

15.

[Tony Kornheiser]

15. Hit it in the water.

[Steve Sands]

Chipped it over the green.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, yeah. Into the water. And then. Then goes down to minus 2. Still on the board. And double. 17. A straight ahead hole. 17. A narrow fairway, but a straight ahead hole.

[Gary Braun]

Yeah.

[Steve Sands]

Bad chip in the three putt.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. So now he's at even. And I have said, Wilbon and I are going back and forth and I'm not the only one. I said, he's out of it. It's over. It's over.

[Steve Sands]

On Thursday, the math would support that because the winner averages one double per tournament. And some of these happen where Scotty Scheffler four putts to get to that double. And he had two on day one and four overall.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Nobody. So you see, when people use numbers to be predictive, often that works. But something never happens until it happens. Yes. And now the winner of the Masters has had four doubles in the tournament. It's never happened. It's never happened. So he shoots himself out of it. Wilbot and I are sure he's done. Other people that I'm on chats with are sure he's done. Then the next day comes back and he shoots 66. So he's minus six. He's behind Justin Rose. Is he behind somebody else or is he second at that point? After Friday? Yeah. Then on Saturday, he shoots 66 again. And he opens with a birdie and an eagle.

[Steve Sands]

He opens five straight threes.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Three. Three. Gets the Masters record of all time opening. Was it five or six?

[Steve Sands]

Five straight. Oh, six straight.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Threes, maybe six straight threes. It's amazing. And he's all alone. He's all alone. Now at the end, he has a couple of bogeys, maybe at 10 and 12 or whatever.

[Steve Sands]

He had eight and 10.

[Tony Kornheiser]

He had a couple of bogeys. Then he had a birdie.

[Steve Sands]

He was 15.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yes, he was in the lead. He was in the lead at the end of Saturday. Not quite comfortable because Bryson Dechambeau, who does not choke, although what he did Sunday, middle and late, wasn't great, but he. You don't think of him as a gagger because he didn't play well.

[Steve Sands]

If you watched his second shots even into day three, he was not sharp. He made up for with spectacular chipping and pitching and very clutch putting. Going back to what he did on 18, which is rolling about a 50 footer to get a little bit closer for that.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Get within two. To get within two. Rory and DeChambeau have separated themselves from everybody else. At the end of Thursday, he makes a great putt on 18. And some of us in texts wrote to people who that's a momentum builder. He's closer than Rory wants him to be. And they're head to head. And the last time they. They were not head to head, but the last time they were involved in an important thing in a major was last year at Pinehurst. Rory was ahead of him. Rory missed a couple of putts late and DeChambeau won the US Open. That scar tissue for Rory. Okay, then day four begins. And by the way, 18 is important because Justin Rose, just like Bryson DeChambeau, throws in a bomb on 18 to get him itself in a position to go to a playoff. Or win. Or win if Rory gags. Okay, Rory begins Sunday. Remember on Saturday, he begins three. Three begins Sunday. Six, five. Six, five. He used driver on one, he used driver on two. He went in the sand both times. Talk.

[Steve Sands]

No, just say this is it shows you how close to perfection you can be on number one. On day three, he hits a driver that's about 350 some odd yards off the tee, sets up a pretty straightforward birdie on a tough opening hole. Hits pretty close to the same drive, pushes it a hair more. It's one yard from being perfect. Goes into a bunker, he has to pitch out and he makes a bad first putt leading to the double. And at that point, he is the best driver of the modern game. And his driving really left him until you get to that last final stretch and getting to the playoff where he absolutely piped one. But off the Gate three wood worked.

[Tony Kornheiser]

For him a lot better than driver yesterday. He had three drives into sand yesterday.

[Steve Sands]

Those were early. He still missed the three wood a little bit. But immediately out of the gate you see Bryson play a smart low iron to the front portion.

[Tony Kornheiser]

It's a great chip.

[Steve Sands]

Makes a five footer for par and boom, it's a two shot swing.

[Tony Kornheiser]

And then he gets.

[Steve Sands]

The day is marked by two shot swings. Normally I like to, for these rounds, I break it down into thirds and you can try and see how can you maintain a lead. And I think Rory is helped by having Bryson directly in front of him. And Bryson, who's known as a very long player, often was forced to hit before Rory. So Rory, with the lead throughout the day, could react to what Bryson was doing and keep him right in front of him. I really think three was an important hole where this point, Rory birdies it. He is at that point down by one. It's another two shot swing, but that gets him back into this middle. Getting into the middle round. He makes a great birdie putt on four. And you think he's really going to.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Settle down, he's going to win. Everybody who writes me, texts everybody, says at that point it's over.

[Steve Sands]

I text you all day long, over, it's over.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Boom. And market. And I say, it's over, it's over. Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? The Germans. And he's on a roll. Let him go.

[Steve Sands]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Animal House reference both of them.

[Steve Sands]

Both of them make great saves on a hole that has become harder on the front nine on seven. And Rory gives you this for the first time, a break in the armor. And he smiles. He has this sort of, aw, shucks, I can't believe I got away with that one. And then you get these birdies on 9 and 10. You go, there's no way he cannot win this tournament.

[Tony Kornheiser]

He is up four going into the back nine. I don't call it the second nine. Going into the back nine At Augusta, he's up four.

[Steve Sands]

Guess he don't play from the pine straw either.

[Tony Kornheiser]

No, wheels have come off. Wheels have come off there with Rory, with Jordan Spieth with a lot of people.

[Steve Sands]

Water on 12 is the only undoing that can happen. And he safely. He safely avoids. Oh, that's right.

[Tony Kornheiser]

What was the hole that parson. What's the hole that he. Well, well, 13. Yes, is 13 is just terrible. Now while this is happening, DeChambeau is receding a little bit, but Rose is coming up the board a little bit. Nobody's paying attention to Rose. People like Justin Rose, but nobody's paying attention because it's Rory's tournament. Yeah. Rory hits a second shot on 13, a third shot. Rory all Rory, like Phil Mickelson, always goes for it. He did not go for it. He was protecting a lead. So he has a 60 yard wedge shot in 60 yards. Bread and butter hits it terribly and it goes in the water.

[Steve Sands]

He misses his line by 25 yards.

[Tony Kornheiser]

It's unbelievable. Bad shot. Yes. There's no other word than choke. No, it's not a mistake. No, it's a choke. And he doubles that well.

[Steve Sands]

He has a six footer to save the bogey, which you start to see the putts that fell on 9 and 10 don't find the. Don't find the center of the cup.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So now they're tied. He's tied with Justin Rose. And the stuff goes up on the board. And you hear people, you hear this. Okay, so Rory now is tied. And Rory hits a Great Shot on 15 on into Eagle territory.

[Steve Sands]

So much of Rory's play, you can see immediately with his body language. He starts walking after walking after a good shot. And you know, you talk about his playing conservatively, it reminds you of the Open at St. Andrews where he played too conservatively, didn't give himself birdie looks. Here he talked all week about how he sat down with Nicholas to go hole by hole, how he would play if he's in this situation, go. Do you think he sat down with Jack talking about how you're gonna chunk it into the water. And the harder the shot, it frees him up. So on 15, he is forced to sling it around the trees. A shot that is a natural feel for him. All season he worked on trying to avoid the hook with the second shot. Here's where you can lean into that. He has a slightly downhill eye. He can go down one club play to the front third of the green, let it release to the hole and sets up the eagle putt.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Eagle putt. Misses it. Bertie's misses it. Yeah, it's a great shot on 16. Birdie putt, five feet.

[Steve Sands]

Great storyline, by the way, going Back to the 50th anniversary of Nicholas making that birdie for the charge.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's where they put the pin. Misses it. 17. Unbelievably great shot. And he makes it. So now he's one up. Rose has posted nobody else's. Jason Day is not going to catch him, Greg. Patrick Reed's not going to catch Patrick.

[Steve Sands]

Great finish, though.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Out of nowhere, Dice One dunks one.

[Steve Sands]

By the way, the video that they have for the. When they're opening up on nerves with the John Legend song, no sighting of Patrick Reed anywhere. It's like they're trying to erase him from the history.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That song was great. So, yeah, they don't want him to win, but. But Rose has posted now. So now Rory's go goes into 18 with a one shot lead. It's a very tough, narrow driving hole, but if he makes a good drive, he's going to win the tournament.

[Steve Sands]

It's got the funnel pin, which I was good.

[Tony Kornheiser]

He makes a good drive. He pulls out a gap wedge. Yes, a gap wedge. This is again bread and butter. Puts it in the sand, gets out of the sand to five feet. Yeah. Mrs. It. He's. Look, he misses it. So now there's a playoff. He has choked. He's. This is going to be ultimately the greatest day of his life. And he's choked throughout the day again, starting out 6, 5, then missing putt after putt after putt. That. Making two unbelievably terrible shots on that level. Not, not even championship level, pro level. You don't miss those shots. You don't miss them on 13. You don't miss them on at Stone. He does. He gets in the playoff. He hits a good drive. Rose hits a good drive. Rose hits a very fine second shot.

[Steve Sands]

To 12ft and it pitches about three feet below the hole.

[Tony Kornheiser]

12Ft. Yeah, it's a straight putt. Rory hits a shot to two feet. Yeah, he hits the greatest shot of all time. Rose misses the punt to the right a little bit and you worry, you worry that McElroy's not going to make.

[Steve Sands]

This, what, a downhill left to righter? Haven't seen a pit one of those.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Before, you know, that's what he missed it at.

[Steve Sands]

Yeah, this doesn't have the grain into such a degree.

[Tony Kornheiser]

He wins. He wins. And it's wonderful.

[Steve Sands]

McElroy has his masterpiece.

[Tony Kornheiser]

He's. Yes, he's got everything now and, and you now believe he will win three or four more majors?

[Steve Sands]

Oh, I think he'll win at least two more Masters. And I think this opens up the floodgates for a lot of majors. The Masters in particular has a lot of winners who are over 35. He's entering that. There's a burden that he was talking about carrying for these last 11 years, since the most recent major, but really we're going back to when he lost the lead on the second nine at Augusta.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Shot 80, shot, finished with 80. Rory McIlroy doesn't shoot 80.

[Steve Sands]

I mean CBS always does such a great production. But the close up shops shots to see his body language and to see the slumped shoulders as he's finishing that last six. Stretch the face after 13 where he just looks like he can't even believe what's happening. And then just the utter relief.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, this is, but this is the thing he did, you know, the two days before where you say put it, putt it, putt it. It's uphill, punt it, he chips it, he goes in the water, he. Four doubles. That's three more than anybody ever had who won this tournament. Not one more. Three more than anybody ever had. He was the star of this from beginning to end. And when he won it, he went down on the ground and started weeping, which is the absolute correct response. Weeping. Oh, it just the burden of it is off his shoulders. Not everybody gets that chance. He's had that chance a lot and he's choked. But he choked now and still won.

[Steve Sands]

So what, what is so amazing? And I was thinking about this.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Justin Rose shot 66 on the final day.

[Steve Sands]

I just needed, he just needed Chris DiMarco to bang one past it so he could see the line coming down the hill on 18.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's what Phil did.

[Steve Sands]

Yeah. And, and speaking of that, we had friends who were at the Masters and one of the great traditions is the pin or the hat. You choose. Am I getting just the, the Masters hat or am I going to get one that has the year and you never know what the winner is going to be. But you walk around the grounds and you see the 01 hat, you see the 04 hat, you see the 86 hat or pin, you see the 19 even going back to the Spieth in 15. This is one of those in 10, 20, 30 years times there's going to be an adult walking around that Rory McElroy Grand Slam hat.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yes.

[Steve Sands]

And no one will ever remember the doubles. Nobody will ever remember those missed putts for, you know, for.

[Tony Kornheiser]

It might be the greatest golf tournament I've ever seen. Might be.

[Steve Sands]

I certainly most dramatic.

[Tony Kornheiser]

It's unbelievably dramatic. Great theater. It's unbelievably riveting and, and it will be memorable. I hope the rating is great. I hope it dwarfs the NBA ratings. You know, I just, I think that, that it was tremendously exciting. I, I was not there, so it's not the same, but I had one text back and forth where someone says the most exciting thing you've ever seen. I Said, well, it's. There's Flutie. Yeah. And there's Laitner and there's Ali. I wasn't at it. But Ali, Foreman. You know, there's the magic baby hook that you can come up with some things. There are dramatic home runs. Oh, sure. Mazerosky home run. There's. There's stuff like that. But in terms of golf, yeah, I think it might be. I think it might be from beginning to end, because Rory was the lead actor in all of it. And everyone had an opinion as to whether, you know, they wanted him to win this Grand Slam or not. It's a made up thing, the Grand Slam. We're not kidding ourselves here. But it does carry an additional weight.

[Steve Sands]

And it took on for. For being something that is career defining for those who have the chance to enter that. That great category. But it also took on a different meaning when Tiger held all four at one time. Not the same year, but sort of in succession.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, well, Tigers. Tiger is Tiger.

[Steve Sands]

But now you have Rory going to the PGA Quail Hollow places where he.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Can win in a month, right? Yeah, he can win. He can win. All right. Can I bring up one. One other sports thing that made me smile when I saw it happen? What? The Wizards lost. No, they won. They won.

[Michael Wilbon]

They won.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So they're not last now. Utah's last. They won. I mean, they win the final game of the season. You've done brilliantly trying to lose, and you won this last. And they won it on a putback. Like they stole the ball and put it up with no time. You can't tell if you want to lose. You have to put bad players in the game. You can't tell players to play badly or not give effort. Cannot. No. You got to manipulate that. That's a loss on the coach. The coach ruined that. He kept Bub Carrington in the game. He ruined it. We'll take a break. Wilbon, Wilbon and Sands at some point. I'm Tony Kornheiser.

[Michael Wilbon]

This is the Tony Kornheiser Show.

[Tony Kornheiser]

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[Steve Sands]

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[Tony Kornheiser]

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[Steve Sands]

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[Tony Kornheiser]

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[Steve Sands]

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[Tony Kornheiser]

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[Gary Braun]

People.

[Michael Wilbon]

You're listening to the Tony Kornheiser Show.

[Tony Kornheiser]

This is our friend Don Stewart. This is a song called Lies in Poetry. Don writes. Here are two songs I wrote for my album titled Don Stewart, Volume 46, Lies in Poetry. It's about a high school guy who almost waited too long to ask a girl out for a date. If I could know, which you'll hear later in the show, is about a guy who tries to see the future and realizes it's not that smart. And Don writes, these songs are, of course not about me. I would never be that stupid. Thanks, as always, for playing my songs. I still can't believe you play them when you have so many talented people who send their songs in. It's because you're really good. Yes. And it plays in Michael Wilbon. And Wilbon and I were texting back and forth forth about the Masters for days. And to be honest, we both thought that Rory was done after two doubles on Thursday, did we not?

[Gary Braun]

Yeah. Yes. Definitely thought he was done Thursday. I was hoping he could recover. But knowing a little bit about how that works and how even the best players in the world can have a bad day, can rearrange everything, even a major championship tournament. So, yeah, you have to go in the water with a shot. I didn't understand on Thursday, I just thought, all right, all right, we're not going to have worry this time either.

[Tony Kornheiser]

How did you feel Friday and Saturday when he went 66? 66.

[Gary Braun]

It's still. I loved it. I loved. I was rooting for him. I was rooting for him. Not the usual cast of characters. Well, you can root for a lot of people in a golf tournament. Yeah, but the usual cast of characters for me are people that I've come across and, you know, become friendly with. Tony Fina Allen, Colin Morcawa and Max Homa. And, you know, I have a cast of characters. Maddie Fitzpatrick went to Northwestern, and I was focused on Rory because I'm well familiar with the story. We all are. People who. Especially who deal with sports for a living and with the intimacy, intimate details of it. So I was rooting for Rory, and when he shot 66 back to back, I'm like, okay, but, but, but, but, Tony, you know, I know enough about Sunday in Augusta to not get crazy. I mean, no, none of those texts. At no point did you ever hear me say, yeah, Rory's. I don't even go with Rory's dialed in. Because it doesn't matter how dialed in you are. We've seen people lose the tournament, hitting the tree limb on 13 or 15 and going to Raise Creek. We've seen it. So it doesn't matter. Calamity is always, like, around the corner for you there. So I wasn't counting anything. And I just thought, you know, I think I told you that he could just get in his own way because everyone can. Every. There's a reason only five people had done what he wound up doing. It's. It's almost impossible to do. So he could get in his own way, and he damn near did.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So. But at the very least, I know you will agree with me that going into Sunday, we both thought, well, it's his to win or lose.

[Gary Braun]

Yeah. Yeah, I thought, yes, it's. He's got that. He's got a. What do we get? Three, two stroke lead.

[Tony Kornheiser]

He had a two because DeChambeau made a great putt on 18 on Saturday. Saturday to put him. But also you put him close. So this is my feeling was this. He and Shambo were going to play together in the. In the final group, and they had that history. Joined history, though. Not they didn't play together at Pinehurst, but they had that history of Rory missing last year, a couple of putts, and DeChambeau winning that tournament. So if I'm Rory, I want DeChambeau with me. I want, I do. I want to see him next to me all the time. And that's why I thought it was his to win or lose. When he started 6, 5. I thought to myself, quit right now and open up a driving range. What are you doing?

[Gary Braun]

You know, I wasn't, Yeah, I was, I was having some despair at that moment, but it's a lot. There's a lot of golf to go. I didn't think necessarily that DeChambeau, who I root against for reasons we won't get into right now, I thought, you know, he's, he's, he's not going to blow up today. I was wrong because he did blow up.

[Tony Kornheiser]

He did blow up.

[Gary Braun]

Steady himself. It was too late. But yeah, I was not in total despair after one and two, but it didn't look great.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay, so then Rory rights himself and Rory, because DeChambeau recedes and because Oberg makes no charge and Scheffler makes no charge, and Justin Rose, who we like a lot, we don't really regard him because he had the lead and lost the lead. We thought he was done. Rory takes a four shot lead into the back nine. And we're thinking it's his right.

[Gary Braun]

Yeah, 13 at one point he had a six shot lead over DeChambeau. Yeah, six or seven.

[Tony Kornheiser]

DeChambo was out of it at that point. December was.

[Gary Braun]

Yeah, but you're, you know, again, calamity waits. I was not, I didn't have, I wasn't making any pronouncements. I was just ready to watch. I just wanted to watch it because I knew that. I thought there was drama. I didn't think there was John Van de Veldean drama.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Right.

[Gary Braun]

But I just thought there'd be drama.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So when he, first of all, when he doesn't go on 13, which Rory, like Phil Mickelson, always goes, when he lays up, he puts himself in position for a 60 yard shot. When he puts that in the water, what are you thinking?

[Gary Braun]

Well, that's when. That's what I would. That's my point. That's the calamity that's around the corner. Yes, it was great. It was great yesterday. I don't know that you, you probably didn't stay with this. I stayed with. I went back to Live from the Masters on the Golf Channel, and I stayed with it into the night until I couldn't take anymore. And at one point they called Jack Nicklaus and they have Jack live on, on the telephone. It was, it was almost as compelling as watching Rory. And they asked Jack, but You had to ask Jack. You don't have to ask Jack, because Jack is what I'm talking about. Anyway. What would you have done there? And. And. But Jack couldn't believe. Did he put in the water either? Jack. Nick was. Jack's going, what are you doing? It was so great to hear Jack Nicklaus sort of be like the rest of us and go through the round and talk about what he would and wouldn't do. Not only that, Jack revealed that the two of them, like, you know, talked or had lunch, maybe even like on Tuesday or something, and they went through hole by hole of what Rory would do, what shot he would make, what club he would use. And they went through it. And Jack said, Through 72 holes, they did this. And Jack said to him, okay, I agree with everything you said, but you gotta. You gotta plan some. Many disasters in there, some shots that you just don't think you're gonna have to hit because this is, you know, this is the nature of what you're trying to do. So, yeah, I mean, this is.

[Tony Kornheiser]

It's a. I just. It's a remarkable thing.

[Gary Braun]

To me, it was.

[Tony Kornheiser]

This is the greatest triumph of Rory McIlroy's life. We all like Rory McElroy. We all rooted for him. And in that time, he gagged like a dog. He gagged at 13, he gagged at 18.

[Gary Braun]

Angry, like, four times. He double bogeyed more than anybody who has ever won the tournament ever.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Four. He had four. Nobody else had ever had more than one. He had four.

[Gary Braun]

The pulled, missed putts, you know, and.

[Tony Kornheiser]

You know, what did you think at 18 when he put it in the sand?

[Gary Braun]

What. How did he put us? How did he put a gap wedge in the sand? How does he fire a gap, gap wedge 30ft right? You and I know that hole. Yeah, we've played that hole. I mean, you know, you can't hit the ball right from there on that approach. You've got. You could be left, you could be. You could be way left. The pin wasn't as far right as it often is.

[Tony Kornheiser]

You have to get on the green, two putt to win. And he didn't.

[Gary Braun]

He didn't do it. And he. And to a gap wedge, 125 yards, I think it was. And so we're standing with the shots, and he's standing over the shots, and I'm watching with Matthew, who's really watching his first real Masters. I mean, for the first time, because he. He plays a lot now. He's increasing his amount of play. You know, he's a kid who's an athlete. He can hit it a long way. And every shot I'm saying, what do you use here? What are you doing here? And, you know, on that shot, he just says, dad, this is automatic. This is. I'm Gonna hit this 125 yards with a 52 degree. I'm like, yeah, that's right. Splash.

[Tony Kornheiser]

What? Yeah, yeah.

[Michael Wilbon]

What?

[Gary Braun]

It just, it. But it was, it's the best of sports. It's the best of sports.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Fantastic.

[Gary Braun]

That's why we watch.

[Tony Kornheiser]

It was fantastic.

[Gary Braun]

That's why I could. Look, I had, I was so wound up after watching. And you didn't, you didn't. You don't do what I do with. We don't watch. We don't, we don't. You And I don't consume sports the same way because I am watching side by side. I'm watching the warriors and Clippers while I'm watching Rory and DeChambeau and then just Rory. And there's so much drama going on. And I don't, I both don't want to see the Lakers and Warriors have to play in the first round, play each other. I don't want to see that, But I don't want to see the warriors in the plan either. So I am, I am nuts. I'm screaming. My voice is hoarse now because I'm screaming at multiple screens. What are you doing?

[Tony Kornheiser]

You're a madman.

[Gary Braun]

Raymond Green tries to draw a foul and sticks his butt out while he's shooting a layup that is going to win the game for the Warriors. Except he misses the open YMCA layup. A guy with four championship rings, and I, I just go nuts. I, I. So I'm watching it all. But it's why you do it. It's why yesterday for me was just one of the great sports watching days ever.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So on 18 on now, he's in the playoff against a very worthy man, Justin Rose. We like Justin Rose.

[Michael Wilbon]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Against a guy who has won a major in his life and won an Olympic gold medal, and everyone sort of likes him. And they both hit good drives, and Justin Rose hits a very good second shot. And now Rory hits an unbelievably great shot. And so did you think he'd miss the putt? I did.

[Gary Braun]

No, I thought that's the ending that we had to have.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Really?

[Gary Braun]

That was two feet. I thought it was the ending we had to have, but I was holding my breath. I was holding my breath. I just didn't think, I didn't think he could miss the shot. I didn't.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I did.

[Gary Braun]

Maybe that's because I was just hoping, but I thought he could miss on 18. I thought he could miss it on 16 because 4ft is different than 2ft. And you know that well too.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yes, sure, sure. There's no question about it. He missed it last year at Pinehurst. He missed. He missed. Is that. That is. I believe that's as good a final day in a golf tournament as I have ever seen. As good.

[Gary Braun]

Well, I. There. I got other days. I'm going to rank above it. It's going to be up there. But I got all of my days involved. Tiger. All of them.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, but Tiger. Tiger never put himself in a gagging mode where he blew the tournament. Rory did it five times yesterday.

[Gary Braun]

Different drama, different reasons.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yes.

[Gary Braun]

Drama comes in all packages.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yes.

[Gary Braun]

You know, and so mine, the John Van Devel. Yeah. John Vanderbilt is because I just really started watching golf closely then. That was like 98 or something like that. Maybe 99 at the latest.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Took off his shoes and socks.

[Gary Braun]

I remembered what a great thing ever, ever going to top that.

[Tony Kornheiser]

But he's not, he's not as worthy as Rory Matter.

[Gary Braun]

That doesn't matter. The drama is the drama.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay?

[Gary Braun]

Drama's drama. I don't, I don't care, you know, who he, you know, in that moment. Come on. Calamity is. Can be nicknamed Vandeville.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yes, sure.

[Gary Braun]

He defines. It's like the fact that people say. What does the word upset come from? From a horse. Yes, it comes from an actual horse.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's right.

[Gary Braun]

That one. It shouldn't have won. That's so they're. Things take on a life of their own. And so, yes, yesterday is up there. I was, I, I, you know, I said to Matthew, because we. He's watching now. And I said, you know, it's too bad you're not. I'm watching the Masters with my son in the way that, you know, the only other person I watched it like that with to some degree for a lot of years was my father in law. And the emotions spent with Tiger for African American men. I'm going to speak for everybody, okay, Everybody, I'm going to speak for. The emotion of that was unlike anything I have ever done, including the emotion of watching Michael Jordan. For a Chicagoan, it was with maybe Ali, but I was younger, so the emotion of watching Tiger woods on these Sundays and at Augusta, it was the nerves, the energy expended. It's like nothing that I've ever experienced or now will ever experience, only my own Son playing to take me through a more range, a greater range and intensity of emotion than watching Tiger woods for those 25 years, the Masters. So. So Rory's not. He. Not close to that. But other once I wipe that away, then, yeah, then Rory. I don't know that I've rooted for anyone else as hard as I did yesterday.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, I think. I think it's time and place. I think if it was another major, it would not have been the. It's. It's because he needed this one, right? It's because he needed this one. Yeah.

[Gary Braun]

That's what I think he admitted when he. I watched everything. Every time he went to a microphone, I. I turned down whatever NBA aftermath I was watching just to listen to Rory. And I give him full credit for just laying out of the sofa and bearing his soul. And it was compelling.

[Tony Kornheiser]

It was great. It was great.

[Gary Braun]

It was.

[Tony Kornheiser]

All right, I'll see you later. All right, Tom, Michael Wilbon, boys and girls. We'll take a break. Steve Sands when we return. I told you we're doing to the Masters all day. I'm Tony Kornheiser.

[Michael Wilbon]

This is the Tony Kornheiser Show. The Tony Kornheiser Show.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Once again, this is. Our friend Don Stewart sends us music all the time, worthy music. Like the music Very much. This is a song called if I Could Know. Michael, if people like Don Stewart want to send in their original music, how do they do it?

[Steve Sands]

Send us your music by emailing it to jingles tonycornizershow.com youm can listen to.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Don Stewart's songs in their entirety after I'm done babbling again. This is if I could know. This segment is made possible by bank of America. Bank of America supports everyone determined to find out what's possible in golf and in life. Find out [e-mail] MastersGolf what would you like the power to do? Bank of America NA member FDIC. Copyright 2025 bank of America Corporation. All rights reserved. Steve Sands. I saw you yesterday morning on Live From. I guess you were wearing a suit and tie. I need to talk about the suit and tie. But first I need to ask because I just sort of wandered in and the Golf Channel and a lot of. A lot of television networks are guilty of this. They don't put people's names up, so you don't know. If you're not there at the beginning, you don't know who they are. Who were you chatting with yesterday morning?

[Michael Wilbon]

Well, it depends on what time of day you were watching.

[Tony Kornheiser]

11 maybe 11.

[Michael Wilbon]

The main analysts with us for the entire morning, all week are nota Begay, Paige McKenzie and Aaron Oberholzer. There was a time there where we bring in all kinds of guests, green jackets, you know, guys who have won the Masters. We have some reporters on the ground. Damon Hack, Kira K. Dixon, Rex Hoggard, Ryan Lavner. And it's a lot of people there over the course of the.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I don't think it was no. To be gay. I know what he looks like. I don't think it was no. Tom.

[Michael Wilbon]

It's probably Rex Hoggard and Ryan Lavner.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay. Okay.

[Michael Wilbon]

Two writers for Golf Channel.com. they do a little TV work for golf Channel, and they come in and do a segment with us every single day. And they do a fabulous job opening up their notebook, giving us inside the press building. What it's like being around the guys when they're speaking, that kind of thing.

[Tony Kornheiser]

All right. I think here's. Yeah, Michael is showing me them now. Yeah. Yeah. That's who they were. Michael's showing me that. How many great guys. Okay.

[Michael Wilbon]

Actually, Rex Hugger just became big honor for him. And you can appreciate this. The Golf Writers association of America, which is a very big thing in the golf world as far as the written word. He was named the president earlier this week for the next year. So it's a very big honor for Rex, which is well deserved. He's a great guy.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Good for him. How many suits did you bring? Did you. Because we always see you in a golf shirt. This was a suit and tie. How many suits did you bring?

[Michael Wilbon]

I bring. I don't know why. I'm on for seven days and I bring five suits, five different shirts, different ties. Obviously, I don't know why I don't bring seven.

[Tony Kornheiser]

You don't want to show off.

[Michael Wilbon]

I don't know about that. I don't know. Val Sands actually asked me that last night. How many suits? But I. I don't know why, but I brought five this time. I think I wore the one yesterday on Monday. Kind of separate them a little bit, but five for seven days. So I don't know why. It's a funny question. I don't know why I do that.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Well, we pay attention to you. Do you feel odd wearing a suit? Given what you normally. In the atmosphere of a golf tournament, what you normally wear? Do you feel odd wearing a suit?

[Michael Wilbon]

Not at Augusta. I think it's appropriate. Augusta, in fact. I'm old, Tony, and I'm old school. I can't stand watching a Grown man in a suit and tie with sneakers.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Looks terrible.

[Michael Wilbon]

It's just the worst.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Looks terrible.

[Michael Wilbon]

I think it's ridiculous and I think, I think it's just unacceptable on TV when people are shown head to toe. If you're behind the set and you want to get away with it, go ahead and try it. But if you're being shown in a suit and tie on national television, put on a nice pair of shoes and act like a grown up.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Bravo.

[Michael Wilbon]

I. I don't know. I think here at Augusta, the US Open, the Open Championship, the Ryder cup, the four biggest events we have in golf on NBC and Golf Channel, we wear suits and ties, but for the most part, we, you know, FootJoy pays a lot of money for us to wear those shirts.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Michael Wilbon]

For the company. So that's what we wear.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Understandable.

[Michael Wilbon]

At Augusta, I think a suit and tie is, is beyond appropriate. And I actually enjoy it. It's a fun, fun week. It's the only time all year I do a studio show. My job is McElroy for birdie at 12. Sitting at a booth all day.

[Gary Braun]

Right.

[Michael Wilbon]

To do a studio show. It's an honor to do it. They roll the old guy out every year. It's not my job anymore. It's been a long, long time since I hosted studio shows and they keep having me do it every year at Augusta. And I thoroughly enjoy it.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Good.

[Michael Wilbon]

Honored to be there. It's a heck of a team effort.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Makes us very happy to see you. Let's get to the tournament. It's all about Rory all the time. On Thursday, when he doubled 15 and then came back two holes later and doubled 17, he lost four shots in two holes. He went to even from minus four. You thought what?

[Michael Wilbon]

You know, I thought he was still in it.

[Tony Kornheiser]

You did? I thought he was done.

[Michael Wilbon]

No, I thought he was still in it because he played flawless golf for 14 and a half holes. He had two really good shots on 15 and then just hit a horrendous third shot to put it in the water. The double at 17 was just a weird double. He hit it long and then he just messed around and it was bad, you know. Did I have a thought? Of course I had a thought like everybody else. Here we go again with Rory. That's only natural. But because Justin Rose was at seven under, he had a three shot lead and the other guys, including Scotty Scheffler, Ludwig oberg, were at 4 under. You could make a strong case in golf that the lead was at 4 under, not at 7. No offense to Justin Rose, who was fabulous. I'm sure we'll get to him. He went all the way and got into the playoff. But when you have a separation like that, normally they're not going to just double down and go from seven under to 14 under the next day. So the lead was basically four, maybe five under, if you want to go that far. And Rory was only four back, you know, from Scotty and Ludwig. So, yeah, I thought he still had some time, but I thought Friday morning was going to be arguably one of the biggest days of his golfing life. And he came up huge on Friday to give himself a chance going into the weekend.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Let's go to the DeChambeau putt on Saturday on 18, which is a real pressure putt. And by at that point, DeChambeau had been chipping and putting very well. He got within 2 of Rory. Rory had gone 66, 66. Dechambeau got within 2. You thought what?

[Michael Wilbon]

I thought, game on. I think people look back at last year at Pinehurst when Bryson beat Rory McIlroy at the US Open. But I think people forgot that they didn't play in the same group.

[Tony Kornheiser]

No, Rory was ahead of him.

[Michael Wilbon]

Exactly. Rory was ahead of him. So it was a lot different dynamic. And you know, I thought that when Bryson made that putt, when Corey Connors did not get into the final group to play with McElroy again, he played with them on Saturday and Bryson got in after making that putt, I remember thinking, wow, this could be an epic Sunday at the Masters. Sunday at the Masters is the biggest day in golf, regardless of who's in the final group. But Rory McIlroy and Bryson DeChambeau are the two most popular players on the planet. They've got a little bit of history. There's a little bit of angst there. It's not like they dislike each other, but that's a healthy rivalry for sure. And coming off of what happened last year, Pinehurst, I was thinking this could be the most watched, the most paid attention to Masters or any golf tournament we've ever seen, including the 97 Masters with Tiger, which is still the highest rated golf tournament of all time. And I just remember thinking, wow, Bryson with his antics and his energy. McElroy with his steely eyed focus and kind of blinders on type of approach. Two rock stars in the sport with two opposite approaches. I thought it was going to be amazing. And it was a wild ride. Wasn't amazing golf all the time, but it was a wild ride yesterday.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay, McElroy opens 6, 5 after 3, 3, 6, 5, 5. And loses the lead by the second hole. Two drives in the sand. 6, 5. You thought what?

[Michael Wilbon]

I honestly thought there was a lot of golf left.

[Gary Braun]

Really? I did.

[Michael Wilbon]

I don't know why I was throwing.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Plates at the television set.

[Michael Wilbon]

I was. I was throwing plates at the television mentally as well. I wasn't doing it physically, but I, I got a lot of texts from a lot of people as it was going on. Here we go. Oh my gosh, he's melting down. And I remember thinking, there's a lot of golf left. You know, this golf course. His father Jerry, who I was texting with late last night, his father Jerry, back home in Northern Ireland watching with Rose. They gave up everything as parents to ensure that their son had the best opportunity to do this. And I remember when I met Jerry and Rose 16 years ago at Doral and he told me, we were laughing about this together. He told me, Augusta is perfect for my son and his game. And now all of a sudden, fast forward 16 years and he's a Masters champion. So as he bogey the first. Excuse me, double bogey the first made a five, you know, at the second, the golf course was just starting to get into his groove and I just thought, there's a lot of golf left. Bryson wasn't playing well. He didn't play well the first three days?

[Tony Kornheiser]

No, he did not.

[Michael Wilbon]

He's hitting irons all over the place. He's chipping.

[Tony Kornheiser]

He was chipping and putting. Saving things. Yes.

[Michael Wilbon]

And when that happens, normally that doesn't sustain itself over four days. It was smoke and mirror. Bryson's a fabulous player. He's a all time player, there's no question about that. But this particular week he didn't have his A game. He wasn't razor sharp. He was doing it with smoke and mirrors. And McElroy was not doing it with smoke and mirrors. So after the double bogey at the first, I thought, oh, geez, you got to be kidding me. But I did text a bunch of people saying, relax, there's a lot of golf left. I'm not being a savant, I'm just saying that's exactly what happened.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Well, there is a lot of golf left, including two of the worst shots that a great player has ever hit.

[Michael Wilbon]

Yes.

[Tony Kornheiser]

The third shot on 13, right?

[Michael Wilbon]

Yep.

[Tony Kornheiser]

And the second shot on 18. Two of the worst shots you've ever seen. What did you think then?

[Michael Wilbon]

Well, the first thing I thought of was Jack Nicklaus on Thursday at 11am comes in and sits with us on the set. Every single year at the Masters, which is one of the great thrills you could ever have as a broadcaster, as a sport sports fan. It's just amazing to sit there with him. And he told us last week, the week prior to the Masters, he sat down and had lunch at the Bears Club in Jupiter with McElroy and his swing coach, Michael Bannon. And they went through every shot, every shot that you would go through at the Masters. And Jack said, he listened the entire time, and when it was over, he said, that's exactly what I would do on every shot. Jack told us it was the first time that Rory had the correct game plan at Augusta National. It's a lot different than the other major championships, and Jack agreed with everything Rory was doing. So when he laid up on 13.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I remember thinking, which he doesn't do. He's a go for it guy.

[Michael Wilbon]

Exactly. This is his 17th Masters appearance. All right. Only Sergio Garcia, with 19 appearances, has gone longer without win.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Michael Wilbon]

And Rory laying up on 13, I remember thinking, oh, my gosh, he's laying up on 13. You've got to be kidding me. He's the most aggressive player out there. He's a fabulous player. He's an all time great player. And he's laying up on 13 after a good drive. And then it dawned on me. Jack said every shot he went through.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So must be that day prior was.

[Michael Wilbon]

The exact correct thing to do. Jack spoke last night on Live from the Masters after Rory won. He was asked about 13, and he said, I 100% agreed with him laying up now. He hit the worst wedge he'll ever have life in. You know, just a horrendous shot, but the game plan was correct, which means to me, he was staying within himself. He was staying patient, which is so hard to do any sport but let alone golf. And he just made a horrible, horrible swing. His resilience, Tony, his perseverance is something underrated. He has come back, you know, a lot of times from some seriously, seriously tough situations, and that was one of them. That was a horrendous shot, even though it was the correct decision.

[Tony Kornheiser]

How about 18? Gap wedge, easy get on the green.

[Michael Wilbon]

Brutal, brutal wedge. Sometimes, you know, Michael knows this and Tony, you know this as well. Even at our level, when we, when we just hack it around, sometimes you have it and sometimes you don't. And yesterday, for whatever reason, he was not dialed in with his wedges. He had been dialed in with his wedges. He had been playing great in that regard. But guess what? In the playoff, after Resetting. There's that perseverance, Fantastic. Second, resilience. He had a same yardage, had a gap wedge after a money drive. By the way, Justin Rose had the honor he had first in that playoff, which means he dictated the action, hit a nice drive, McElroy had to step up, hit a great drive, and then he had the same yardage, same club, and he hit a brilliant wedge when he had to have it.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So were you afraid he'd miss the putt like I was?

[Michael Wilbon]

Yes, I was. I was. He was above the hole.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yes.

[Michael Wilbon]

And by the way, it went in on the left side of the hole. It didn't go into the center of the hole, but it was, it was just a magnificent moment for him. It was a long time coming.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Michael Wilbon]

And again, he's a lot tougher than people realize. You know, you've got to be so mentally tough to come back from the disappointment of that 72nd hole when he basically had the Masters and the Grand Slam in his hands, and then come back right away in the playoffs and hit a money drive, a money wedge and a money putt. That was a big time moment.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, it was really great. It was a fabulous event. I don't know how ratings work. I hope, I hope it attracted the largest audience ever, at least second to Tiger, because it was just great. It was great. Didn't you feel it was great to watch? It was, it was theatrical.

[Michael Wilbon]

It was incredible to watch. I mean, like the ups and downs. I think that people watching just could not believe what they were seeing from the good and the bad. And by the way, the ratings thing, I mean, you and I have done this for a living for a long time. I'm not into ratings. I don't really care about ratings. I'm fascinated by them sometimes because I don't know how they work. In other words, every clubhouse in America had that on. Every sports bar in America had that on. But those don't get counted. People are watching, multiple people watching inside, in groups, wherever they are in groups, that kind of thing. But I will say with social media, I'm not a social media guys, you know, but with social media and the gathering of people, being able to do it instantly say, oh my gosh, are you watching this? If just one person who has a big following is like, oh my gosh, are you watching this? People will turn it on. I would think that yesterday, with the help of social media and the. And the instant gratification, people get on their cell phones and however they get their information, I would think a Lot of people were watching the last 90 or 90 minutes or two hours of that and could not turn it off because that was. We joke all the time about I love sports, I hate sports, that kind of thing. There is nothing like sports. Nothing. The drama is just incredible. It's a. It's a storyline you can follow all throughout the day. And if you weren't watching that the last couple of hours, I don't know what to tell you. What else do you want in life than to have competition at the highest level with the stakes being as high as they possibly can be and someone choking and then coming up money all in the same frame? It's just remarkable. I'm happy for him, happy for his family. That was an amazing feat. By the way, there are more people in tennis who have the career Grand Slam. All right, Men's and women's. More people than six. You can make a strong case that winning the career Grand Slam in men's golf is the single most difficult achievement in all of sports. That's what happened yesterday. That was a historic day in sports and McElroy came up big.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Thank you, Steve.

[Michael Wilbon]

You got it, Tony. Anytime. Hope you enjoyed your Sunday at the Masters.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Loved it. Steve Sands, Boys and girls, this segment was made possible by bank of America, which wants to give a nod to golfers changing the game in 2025. For starters, there's 14 year old one armed golf prodigy Tommy Morrissey, whose expert drive is the stuff of legends. Then there's pro golfer Gabby Barker, who's inspiring more girls to get into the game. And Renee Fluker, whose midnight golf program teaches kids life lessons through golf lessons. Bank of America supports everyone determined to find out what's possible in golf and in life. Find out [e-mail] MastersGolf what would you like the power to do? Bank of America NA member FDIC. Copyright 2025 bank of America Corporation. All rights reserved. We will have email and jingle when we return. I'm Tony Kornheiser.

[Michael Wilbon]

You're listening to the Tony Kornheiser.

[Gary Braun]

Here comes Tony's mail back.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Get your emails, faxes and your notes. Here comes Mr. Tony's mail back on.

[Steve Sands]

A rezone for all of your folks.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Appropriately, that's Darius Rucker, who's pretty much rock and roll's gift of golf. He plays, I don't know, every day.

[Steve Sands]

Monday after the Masters, Monday after the.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Masters, he's got the tournament. You guys played with that, right?

[Steve Sands]

I've never been invited.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I played, you know, somebody I worked with walked off on the eighth hole. I remember that you wanted to do.

[Steve Sands]

It out of balls or something. Walked off after 8.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, it was tired. He didn't like the way he played and he just left. It was childish. Get out of here. Bethesda bagels, we love them. Got the bagel sandwiches today. Very excited about that with the foil wrapping. Just go to bethesdabeagels.com for the location in the DC area nearest you. Then pop on in and you'll be thrilled. Before we get to the mailbag, let me just say, well, I'll be dog if I wouldn't work all day, baby and I'd be doggone if I wouldn't bring you my pay, baby but if I ever caught you running around Blowing my money all over this town Then I wouldn't be doggone hey, hey I'd be long gone that is my favorite Marvin Gaye song. Everybody's got a favorite Marvin Gaye song and that's mine. Thanks to our guest today, Michael Wilbon and Steve Sands. Thanks to today's sponsors. Remember, you can listen to us on Apple podcasts Spotify and Odyssey if you get the show through Apple. Please leave us a review from Justin Figging. Not a name that necessarily you would know, but he's in London, England and he writes. First of all, I'd like to say thank you. When you had Greg Garcia on a few weeks ago, he mentioned his tour with Nate Bargazzi, who my wife and I really love living in London. We never thought Nate would be touring Europe, but thanks to Greg's announcement on your show, I was able to secure tickets for my wife and me this past weekend. It was at the Hammersmith Apollo when we went on Saturday and Greg was great as the emcee, as expected. When he walked out, he said a few words and there was silence. I of course yelled out, leches a ree. He paused, smiled, and said, leches a reef. At this time, my wife sitting next to me was a bit horrified. She's like, what's the cheeserie? I explained the connective tissue of the show. Needless to say, Greg was great, Nate was great and it was a nice afternoon out. Amazing how the connective tissue of the show is global. I've lived in London for 25 years, never missed the podcast or PTI. You're my main sports connection back to the United States. Isn't that nice? Lovely. Okay, Mark from Los Angeles. I recently needed to close two AT&T accounts. One was a no longer used landline and the other was my late father in law's account. In both cases we would do a credit and in both cases they return the funds by issuing a debit card where you had to log in and set up an account with an email and password and then you could use the car to request a check. What a bunch of horse manure. Why couldn't they issue the refunds in the same manner they charged you? Oh no, that's too easy. I'm sure some lackey was trying to increase the number of accounts they opened so they could sell that info again. What a bunch of crap. AT&T stands for Always Tricking and Taking Mark from Los Angeles. I love that email. Thank you from Stephen Brock. I completely understand your indignation with the phone bill frustration. I worked with the post office during the holidays and every day we received mail and packages that were for offices hundreds and even thousands of miles away. It's definitely not as reliable as it was in the past. The next time you get a bill with a due date that does not have a comfortable cushion of time for you, consider calling customer service to let them know and ask for the date to be moved back a week. If that doesn't work, the only solution is Nigel driving it to Illinois and hand delivering a check. Yeah, we can do that. Carol Springs, Illinois is where at&t is. Yeah, Matt Fleming in Simi Valley, California if you do not indeed receive your full refund of $8 for your AT&T late charge, let me know. I am neither rich nor wealthy, but if you give me your banking information routing an account number along with your Social Security number, I will reimburse myself to just to help a brother out. Reimburse you myself? Terry Tahara Bremen, Indiana in response to your AT&T story parentheses rant, I have one you may relate to regarding Sports Illustrated. I've been a continuous SI subscriber for 49 years. I truly enjoy the writing of this fine magazine. I recently got my renewal notice for a year subscription to the tune of $94.40. It struck a nerve after I checked the SI website and saw a new subscription could get a year for $20. Yes, $70 and $74.40 less than that of a loyal subscriber. I emailed customer service explaining my dismay at them not treating loyal subscribers better than newbies. Thankfully, they allowed me to renew at the $20 cost. I counted that as a big win. Yeah, they should do that.

[Steve Sands]

And Nigel still gets SI for kids, you know.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Patrick Sitter look at the bright side. At least the AT&T rep didn't say you were useless. From Matt, who's no longer in Jerusalem, I heard your AT&T diatribe on Thursday's episode. Wanted to share my own confounding payment story. I'm a renter in the greater D.C. area. My landlord uses one of the more popular property management companies to handle rent collection, maintenance issues and the like. When we were setting up our account on the requisite online portal, they asked if we wanted to pay by credit card or bank account electronically. As with a lot of places these days, the management company charges a fee in addition to the rent if you pay by credit card to offset the fee the credit card company charges them. But this management company also charged a fee to pay electronically via my checking account. It would cost me an extra $5 or so a month for the privilege of paying my rent. When I asked if I could just mail them a check every month to avoid the fee, my question was met with silence on the phone, followed by a we'll have to get back to you. I eventually got a green light from my anti diluvian methods. I might be a millennial of the Michael Kornheiser vintage, but boy, did I revel in this small victory for check writers everywhere. From Suhydell in Cincinnati, Ohio, I was fortunate enough to go to the practice rounds at Augusta many years ago. While standing at the ropes waiting to cross a fairway, we chatted up a member of the grounds crew who was waiting there with us. It was late in the day, but he said his day was just getting started. He told us that every night the grounds crew cover the azalea with a tarp and pump in hot air on cold nights and cool air on hot nights, all with the goal of having those famous azaleas in peak bloom for Sunday afternoon TV coverage. I think about that every year as I watch the Masters final round on tv. Yeah, sure, that's what they do.

[Steve Sands]

The old story of the ice.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's what they do. Roland Burnett, longtime listener from the radio days through now, and in the dinosaur days of a regular reader, the columns of the Washington Post. Just thought Tony would like to know that his college has won their second national debate championship this past week. There you go. Yes, while NCAA basketball March Madness went on, so was the national debate tournament the March Madness of the debate world. Binghamton won this year's tournament by beating Kansas in the final. Wow. See the article below when he encloses an article. We won. That's how you debate. That's great. Yeah, well done. That's Great. That's just fabulous. I'll do one more. What do we got at the end? Oh, yeah, go to the bottom. Go to the end. From Andrew Reese in Naples, Florida. I'm coming to Washington next weekend to visit my son who lives in the district. On Sunday, there's a new episode of the Last of Us that I'd like to watch. Is the television room available at your place? And do you have hbo? I got a new bike tonight. Everyone, as always, do wear white.

[Gary Braun]

This crowd has gone deadly silent.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Cinderella story.

[Gary Braun]

Out of nowhere, a former greenskeeper now about to become the Masters champion. It looks like a wreck it's in.

[E]

The holy Trying to sail around the night if I fail my rider storm Trying to tell lies for a dream what a tale it's based upon.

[Michael Wilbon]

From.

[E]

The grave where I hide myself and found the place where I long found they should be hiding from you forever all the mom's buried out I'm God, the highest mountain if I fall, nobody cares that's what I tell myself Late night All this lion won't get me anywhere Found a way jumping off place found where I won't be found it shall be connected to you forever Then I'll be buried below I got the Too long you waited too long that's why I'm with you Sing in this song if I could know what's gonna happen to me When I get old and fall apart Would I do things a little bit different Then maybe give me a brand new start you.

[Tony Kornheiser]

A.

[E]

Million trillion people try every day to get a hand of where they are the grass is never greener When I project that I will someday be a star that I am luckier than a lot Some of my wishes have come true the most important thing that I ever did Is when I got a deep with you who you if I could know what's gonna happen to me When I get old and fall apart I don't think that I change anything at all Because I don't think I'm that SM It.