“Seven in the Shade”

Summary

The Tony Kornheiser Show — "Seven in the Shade" (May 4, 2026)

Podcast Summary

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Episode Overview

In this episode of The Tony Kornheiser Show, Tony is joined by regular sit-in guests Michael Wilbon, Josh Maurer, Philip Martin, and Pat 40 for a lively, wide-ranging conversation. Topics shift from the Nationals-Brewers series and the adventure of getting “seven in the shade” seats at a ball game, to a memorable Kentucky Derby, the latest NBA playoff drama, a touching Washington Post feature, and some classic rants and personal reflections. The episode is rich in banter, nostalgia, and Tony’s quintessential blend of wit, complaint, and warmth.

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Key Segments & Discussion Highlights

1. Nationals Game Recap and “Seven in the Shade” Ticket Saga

[00:58–15:12]

• Tony recounts his family's outing to see the Nationals play the Milwaukee Brewers. Josh Maurer details the complicated quest to procure "seven in the shade" tickets—wanting specific seats, using third-party sites and finally buying eight to get the right spot for everyone, including Grandpop Chan.
• Ticket logistics woes: The group couldn’t buy an odd number of tickets in their desired section, so they bought an extra to ensure all were comfortable and in the shade. The need for "seven in the shade" becomes a running joke.
• Memorable moment: Tony is spotted on the Nats broadcast eating peanuts in the stands, while Josh is caught on his phone—explaining, “It’s actually one of the best uses for the phone. ...Booster, a nine, almost ten-year-old, is at that age where he has a question and wants you to look up everything.” (Josh Maurer, 06:25)
• Tony humorously laments being left out of the chicken tender sharing, jesting: “Michael doesn’t turn to his left and say, hey, dad, do you want... when you have pretenders, feels like payback.” (Tony, 07:22)
• Reflections on the joy of ballparks, family, and brief fame on the stadium big screen.

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2. Baseball Nostalgia & The Value of Community

[09:03–10:14]

• The group reminisces about the unique experience of attending ball games with family. Tony calls it “just lovely,” highlighting simple pleasures: "That's probably my game this year. I don't know how many more games I'm going to go to, but it was good."
• Discussion drifts to the difficulty of seeing from the radio booth, named after Shirley Povich, “way high up...you’re above the clouds.” (Tony, 09:16)

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3. Shoutouts & Rants — Smith Island and AT&T

[10:14–13:07]

• Tony recommends a Washington Post feature on the Smith Island ferry operator: “Somebody who does that for a living is a heroic figure. ...People are going to read that and say they'd want to do that, because it's a public service to begin with and there's a certain idyllic quality.”
• A classic Tony rant on the frustration of dealing with AT&T—“They’re just charging you more money and make it impossible for you to find them and talk to them about anything.” (Tony, 12:17)
• Thanks given to listeners for recent book gifts—though Tony warns humorously, “Stop sending. Don’t send the rest of the library.”

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4. NBA Playoffs Deep Dive (with Michael Wilbon)

[17:22–28:05]

• Tony and Michael Wilbon dig into the NBA playoffs, focusing on Boston’s repeated playoff stumbles:
  • “Of the weekend basketball games, to me, the stunner is Boston going down at home...just flailing away from 28ft and not making any shots." (Tony, 17:23)
  • Wilbon’s take: “One of the reasons I was tired of the Celtics is that I’m tired of their arrogance. ...Their stubbornness, again, it’s a defiance. We’re going to play this way. ...So, you know what? The hell with the Celtics. I’m glad they lost.” (Wilbon, 19:35)
  • Barkley called them out years ago; failure to adjust dooms them.
  • On Oklahoma City: Wilbon praises their "ruthlessness": “There’s a ruthlessness to them...and I think they want to take the Lakers apart limb from limb.” (Wilbon, 27:13)
  • LeBron’s longevity noted: “But he’s the greatest 41-year-old who ever played.” (Tony, 25:28)
  • Tony and Michael agree coaching makes a difference, as seen in Philly’s approach with Nick Nurse.
  • Injury impact: Detailed look at how missing players (Wagner, J Dub) sway playoff series.

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5. Kentucky Derby Reaction (with Wilbon)

[28:08–33:42]

• Wilbon, previously indifferent to horse racing, found the Kentucky Derby “exhilarating.” He’s captivated by the NBC broadcast’s storytelling, the international diversity of jockeys, and drone camera angles: “Drone shots that we’ve never had before...so now, it was like watching a movie, but in real time.” (Wilbon, 31:14)
• The drama of a horse being scratched pre-race, and the astounding last-to-first run by Golden Tempo described as “unbelievable”—“It was like a movie...like that movie with the horse...” (Wilbon, 30:20)
• Wilbon’s verdict: “If that horse runs in the Preakness, I’m watching. If not, I’m not watching.” (Wilbon, 30:37)

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6. Kentucky Derby Analysis with Pat 40

[37:04–47:25]

• Pat 40, reporting live from Louisville, unpacks the wild Derby finish:
  • “To me it was like looking at a high speed kaleidoscope...I thought four different horses were winning the race in a matter of seconds.” (Pat 40, 37:04)
  • On Golden Tempo’s background: “For Golden Tempo to even be 23 to 1, I thought he was slightly over-bet. ...You don’t usually come to the Derby off of consecutive thirds and win.” (Pat 40, 38:23)
  • The horse overcame “cracked heels” earlier Derby week—a day when it “looked like this is a really bad vibe here at this barn.” (Pat 40, 38:56)
  • On the winning ride: “As wide as I’ve ever seen a Derby winner. ...It was a brilliant ride by Jose Ortiz.” (Pat 40, 40:48)
  • Female trainer Cherie DeVoe’s story: A Saratoga native who worked her way up, finally breaking through as the Derby’s first winning female trainer.
  • Will the winner run the Preakness? “No guarantees...right now, looks like if Golden Tempo doesn’t run, nobody from the Derby is going.” (Pat 40, 44:03)
  • Technical note: Despite the drama, it was the slowest Derby ever by Andy Beyer’s speed figures. “It’s just a horse that won an exciting race in exciting fashion and good for him.”
  • Insights into the pre-race chaos with Great White, a horse scratched after dumping its rider.

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7. Listener Mailbag and Closing Reflections

[47:40-end]

• The show’s signature whimsical mailbag features:
  • Stories about Chuck Berry at a St. Louis club (“In this town there’s only one Chuck that matters, and that is Chuck Berry. Now move it along.”)
  • A New Yorker’s brush with JFK Jr. joining a Central Park touch football game: “I just threw a touchdown pass to John F. Kennedy Jr.”
  • Tony on the “Lillehammer jacket” — poetic tributes by Philip Martin
  • Horticulture advice and potato grow bags, friendly water bill competition, and more homey topics.
• Notable quote from the mailbag: “Is the Lillehammer jacket all a lie? ...Perhaps you also don’t think Brian Billick is a preening schmo?” (Don Ames, 56:30)

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Notable Quotes

On the joy of baseball with family:

• "But just to look around me, I got my three boys who are into baseball, I got my wife, my sister-in-law I care about deeply, and I got you and Shan. I was a happy, happy dad." (Josh Maurer, 08:57)

On the NBA Celtics:

• “I’m tired of their arrogance...their defiance. We’re going to play this way...So, you know what? The hell with the Celtics.” (Michael Wilbon, 19:35)

On the Derby’s TV production:

• "It was like watching a movie, but in real time." (Michael Wilbon, 31:26)

On the Derby finish:

• "It was like looking at a high speed kaleidoscope where the picture twisted...I thought four different horses were winning the race in a matter of seconds." (Pat 40, 37:04)

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Memorable Moments

• Tony being broadcast on the big screen mid-peanut; the running “seven in the shade” gag about perfect ballpark seats.
• Michael Wilbon's unexpected enthusiasm for “horsies” and the Derby, swayed by TV storytelling and camera work.
• Pat 40’s picturesque scene of a Derby-winning barn under tension.
• Philip Martin’s poetry on the “Lillehammer jacket,” leaving Tony and the crew in admiration.

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• 00:58–15:12: Nationals game, ticket antics, family-outing stories
• 17:22–28:05: NBA Playoffs deep dive with Michael Wilbon
• 28:08–33:42: Kentucky Derby reactions with Wilbon
• 37:04–47:25: Kentucky Derby analysis with Pat 40
• 47:40-end: Listener mailbag, Lillehammer jacket poetry, closing notes

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The episode is a classic demonstration of Tony’s show at its best: warm, wandering, and wise, with the comfort of a conversation between old friends—whether chatting NBA tactics, griping about call centers, or marveling at a horse race that “looked like a high speed kaleidoscope.” Both sports junkies and casual fans will find something to savor.

Transcript

[Tony Kornheiser]

Hey, it's Tony. On today's show, we're going to talk to Michael Wilbon about the NBA playoffs and also about the Kentucky Derby, which he actually enjoyed. We're going to talk more about the Derby with Pat40, who knows what he's talking about and was there. But first, commerce. Previously on the Tony Kornheiser Show.

[Pat 40]

I remember the first day that I met you was probably three or four weeks before the show hit air. And I was sitting in the newsroom with the very small group that we

[Michael Wilbon]

had that had been working.

[Pat 40]

And you walked into the newsroom and

[Michael Wilbon]

I think truly it was the first

[Pat 40]

time that I had heard you speak. And you looked at the group and you said, I hope you all are renting and not buying.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, there's no chance this show's gonna make it. The Tony Korneiser show is on now. That is the voice of Josh Maurer, who is one of the radio gu

[Josh Maurer]

revealed he wasn't listening to the national radio show.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Right, right. But he's one of the radio guys in Milwaukee. Yes. And Milwaukee, the Milwaukee brewers and they came to play the Nats this weekend. Won the first two games Friday, Saturday, lost yesterday. Sunday. The Nats pitching was fine in all the games.

[Josh Maurer]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Even pitchers that I hate like little. He was fine.

[Josh Maurer]

Tell got the win.

[Tony Kornheiser]

You know. Is it Littell Lattel? Yeah, yeah, he was fine. Did Meatball Nicholas get into any of the games?

[Josh Maurer]

No, I don't think so.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I don't think so. But the pitching was fine.

[Josh Maurer]

But they start. They're using the opener for him.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. To. I don't know what that mean. I guess nerves or something.

[Josh Maurer]

Who knows where you want. Where you want to get into the order.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. So. But whatever. So they won yesterday. They didn't hit in the first two games. It got a total of two runs. The pitching was fine. The pitching was again fine yesterday. And they got three runs. So they won. So they went one and two at home against the Brewers. I saw this morning on a crawl that it was their first home win since April 21. I had no idea. I had no idea that that could possibly be true. Is that true?

[Josh Maurer]

I mean, if it's on the crawl, it's true.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Who knows?

[Josh Maurer]

Well, they just had a big. They were away when they played the Mets. Yeah, yeah, that four game stand against the Braves and the Braves put up a million runs.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So I went to the game Saturday because my son and daughter in law and the whole family and Chan and Kate went to the game. Can you explain how many we had

[Josh Maurer]

to do a reset, so we had tried earlier in the week. This is before. I know that Josh, you know, Alan

[Tony Kornheiser]

is mad at you because he says, I'll get you tickets.

[Josh Maurer]

Okay. Alan has access to four tickets in the sun. We needed seven tickets in the shade.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay.

[Josh Maurer]

So we go through various sites to try and get tickets.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Very specific. Seven in the shade.

[Josh Maurer]

Seven in the shade. And through third party sellers and through the Nationals website, we could not buy an odd number of tickets in our selected section.

[Tony Kornheiser]

We were nice. Section 213.

[Josh Maurer]

Yeah. So we were right above the action behind home.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Home plate. Very good seats.

[Josh Maurer]

Yes, always. You start by searching for aisle access. We wanted the aisle. And we ended up having to get eight tickets, which we were prepared to burn because it was going to be our best option to protect where we wanted to sit. And part of that's, you know, we had Grandpop, so we had Chan with us, and we want to make sure he's able to get in and out of the aisle. So we were fine with that. We then we then realized Josh is going to be on the show and he invites you, gives you the soft invite to come up and say hi in the booth.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So I go, this is said he would have gotten me a ticket. And parking.

[Josh Maurer]

Parking. Well, Alan got the parking.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Allen had the park.

[Josh Maurer]

We're halfway to the game. Antonio was looking to see if I could get player lot. I'm like, player lot. Player lot is a week ahead of time. Ask. It's not a 30 minutes before first pitch, so even better. We are in a section that is very close to the elevator bank that takes you up to the various press boxes.

[Philip Martin]

Can I ask a question? Did Alan really have parking or did you just park?

[Josh Maurer]

Yeah, no, Alan, I'll park you right here. It's fine. Trust me, it's fine.

[Tony Kornheiser]

No, he gave us parking. Okay.

[Josh Maurer]

So we sit down, we watched the first couple innings, and I know that you are invited where you can go up for the fifth inning. So we get up. Liz is going to take the little guys downstairs to the play area. I take you to the elevator and I get to say hi to Josh, drop you off.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Josh Maurer]

And you're gone for a longer than expected amount of time, an inning and a half. So at this point, I'm like, are you doing. Are you doing a bid on local radio in Milwaukee? So I'm texting Saliza to see if he has any. Yeah, he's just going through.

[Tony Kornheiser]

No, I went up to the radio booth. I met his colleague Lane. We chatted for A while. And then I said, where are the Gnats? And the Nats are in the next booth. I said let's go see Charlie and Jags.

[Josh Maurer]

Sure, let's see.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So I did and I started to talk to Charlie and Jags and that was, you know, made me very, it made me very happy. At no point did anyone say do you want to go on? And that's correct.

[Josh Maurer]

I think baseball radio is correct. Tightly controlled environment.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So, so I, I wasn't going to go to the game. I had played golf in the morning and Michael said, we have this extra ticket.

[Pat 40]

We.

[Tony Kornheiser]

And you know, when I decided, okay, I'll go and I went with them. And it was, the drive was much easier than I thought. I thought it would be more congested.

[Josh Maurer]

But no, this is the first time in years where it actually made sense through the GPS to get off at Main Ave and, and take in the main sort of small roads. Yeah. And there's usually people double parked and it's a Saturday so you have people all along the waterfront. But it actually was easier to get in through Main Ave. And then on the way out we got home so fast we were able to get you in front of the TV for the derby.

[Tony Kornheiser]

This is important. I watched the derby live. Now we had 20 people were going to tape it but I watched.

[Josh Maurer]

Oh yeah, we had taped it. We had it on the radio for you. But it kept pushing and pushing and pushing.

[Tony Kornheiser]

It didn't start at 6:56, it started at 7:05. And I was in house watching the derby which I'll get to with Wilbon and with Pat 40 later in the show. So I'm really, I'm really glad that I went. And then I find out now during the game I do text with Coco. I say I went to the game. Michael and Liz and the boys are at the game where this is a section we're in. And then what happened?

[Josh Maurer]

So I get a text from my friend that just goes, michael, get off your phone. So apparently the Nats broadcast had found you in the stands munching on peanuts.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I was eating, I was only eating

[Josh Maurer]

the bootstrate and I are in the side shot of that and I look horrendous. Sometimes you see yourself in a photo. This cannot be what I actually look like. I've been feeling pretty good about myself. Turned 40 last month. I've been on sort of a, on a, on a wellness journey and I could not have looked worse. And of course I'm that dad who is on his phone. But it's Because I was texting with Liz about the little guys. Apparently it's a hard club to get into. The Nats play pen. It's like one in, one out, and they time you at eight minutes. And of course, Booster, a nine, almost nine year old, is at that age where he has a question and wants you to look up everything. So it's actually one of the best uses for the phone. He's like, where exactly is this player from? And like, what did he do last year? What were his stats last week? So I'm oblivious to all of these. Yes. I see this photo. I'm dissecting it. And you're just.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I got my Binghamton baseball hat on.

[Michael Wilbon]

Represent. Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Now, I haven't seen it. I have not even seen it yet, but I'm apparently eating.

[Josh Maurer]

Yeah. The peanuts.

[Philip Martin]

It's not like a George Costanza situation where we had the ice cream at the US Open and it was all over his face.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Think so? I don't know. I don't know. But it was. It was all. All in, all out. Was it just. It was just lovely. And the boys and you have to the baseball game. Oh, yeah. I will say this.

[Philip Martin]

Peanuts and crackers.

[Josh Maurer]

I think the Hammer was very happy because he was wearing his blue hat.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, I think. I think. Michael, I'm just talking to you now. I'm not talking to Michael.

[Josh Maurer]

Should I turn away?

[Tony Kornheiser]

I think Michael got a little revenge on me during that, you know. You know how he always talks about all he got from the press box was a half of an orange soda. So Michael and Liz go out and they buy a bunch of food, including chicken tenders, and nobody offers me one. And they're making the rounds with the kids and nobody turns. Michael doesn't turn to his left and say, hey, dad, do you want. When you have pretended feels like payback.

[Pat 40]

This is after.

[Josh Maurer]

After the Hammer has offered you popcorn and I've been handing you shelled peanuts like you are a bird.

[Philip Martin]

Did you have anything in your pockets? You know, pasta, bread?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Nothing. You know, when you were leaving the

[Josh Maurer]

press box, were you tempted to just go down the buffet line?

[Tony Kornheiser]

I was. I. I did say to Josh, your food around here.

[Pat 40]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

And Josh said that you had to go to. There's a room for food. It's $15 a person. But it's not like. It's not like it used to be

[Josh Maurer]

where you could charge it back to

[Tony Kornheiser]

the Milwaukee brewers catered, you know? Yeah. It was just walking, ate what you want whenever you wanted.

[Philip Martin]

Who was it that brought beer Into. Was it Randy Galloway?

[Tony Kornheiser]

That doesn't. It wouldn't surprise me if it was said.

[Philip Martin]

I'm just going to bring beer for the entire press room.

[Tony Kornheiser]

You know, I mean that Randy would do something like that. So that was. It was wonderful. It was lovely. It was my.

[Josh Maurer]

It's.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's probably my game this year. I don't know how many more games I'm going to go to, but it was good. So sit.

[Josh Maurer]

A baseball game, even a game that was over in the first inning after

[Tony Kornheiser]

all the runs, three, nothing.

[Philip Martin]

Was that a bad.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Brady House made a bad error at third with the bases loaded. And that was one run came in and then a guy hit a single. These are all under runs.

[Michael Wilbon]

You know.

[Tony Kornheiser]

It was three. That's it. That's all they needed was three.

[Josh Maurer]

But just to look around me, I got my three boys who are into baseball.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Josh Maurer]

I got my wife. I got my sister in law I care about deeply. And I got you and Shan. I was a happy, happy dad.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. It was, it was. It was lovely. Lovely to be there. And Coco said, oh, you went to see the radio people and you can come to see. I don't know where they are.

[Philip Martin]

It's all in the same.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I don't know where any.

[Josh Maurer]

Got to keep going up.

[Philip Martin]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Let me tell you, that's way high up.

[Philip Martin]

Oh yes, it is.

[Tony Kornheiser]

The radio booth at the Nats game is way high up. It is tough to see stuff.

[Michael Wilbon]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I mean you're above the clouds.

[Philip Martin]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

You know. So that was. It was a lovely time.

[Philip Martin]

Is it the media? Isn't that whole level called the Shirley Povich?

[Tony Kornheiser]

It's named after Shirley.

[Philip Martin]

Yeah. Which as it should be.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yes, absolutely, 100%. And Train said.

[Pat 40]

What?

[Michael Wilbon]

What?

[Tony Kornheiser]

So, yeah. So it's really good and interesting to

[Josh Maurer]

track from walking into the stadium to our seats. Not one second. Glancy. Which I found interesting was probably because you're wearing your Binghamton baseball hat.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I guess maybe. I mean, I don't know that I'm. You know, somebody might say do you think that was. But I didn't get any of that. I wanted to recommend a story. I don't usually do this. There's a story in the Washington Post online. It's probably in the paper yesterday in the Sunday section. It's a really good story about the guy who operates the ferry on Smith Island. And Smith island is. Smith island is in Maryland. Right. Huh.

[Josh Maurer]

With the piece of.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's where the cake is. Yes. The seven layer cakes. Fabulous cake. There are apparently three small islands. They're actually islands. They are in the Chesapeake Bay. They belong to the state of Maryland. And this fellow operates the ferry that takes people from the mainland of Maryland, from Crisfeld, I guess it is Maryland, into these three islands where there is a population of hundreds of people. And I thought it was a. I don't know who wrote the story. I thought it was a great story. I enjoyed every bit of it. The crisis is he's the third generation and he has no children, and he doesn't know who's gonna operate the ferry after him. And he's in his 60s, you know, and that's tough work. It's not calm all the time on the ferry. And you gotta go back and forth. It's not just once a day. You gotta do a lot of stuff. And people, their lives literally depend on you because they gotta go see doctors and stuff like that. And he's. To me, somebody who does that for a living is a heroic figure. But I also thought that if you read that, you would say to yourself, you know what? I'll do that. I'll live on one of these. I'll try that. If someone teaches me how to operate a ferry boat, well, you're already a ship from the. I will do that. I'm saying people are going to read that and say that they would want to do that. They would want to do that because it's a public service to begin with. And there's a certain idyllic quality about living in that area. You are unbothered.

[Philip Martin]

Yes.

[Tony Kornheiser]

They describe a lot of the people who live there. And these are people who want to live there.

[Michael Wilbon]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Want to live separate from the rest of the people. Doesn't mean they're nuts or anything like that.

[Philip Martin]

Just need some space.

[Tony Kornheiser]

They have a community that works for them. And it just. It's a really, really good story.

[Josh Maurer]

Stories by Dana Monroe, who, I don't know.

[Tony Kornheiser]

It's really good. I want to also thank Joel Dahlinger, who's little, and he gave me some numbers of people to call it AT&T. I hate AT&T, by the way. I got nothing but praise for that rant about at&t.

[Tom Masser]

Sure.

[Tony Kornheiser]

You know that they're just charging you more money and make it impossible for you to find them and talk to them about anything. My attorney said I had problems, too.

[Josh Maurer]

So that was on the phone for hours.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That was really good. Yeah. Hours and hours. And you can't build them. Can't build them. They're not billable hours.

[Philip Martin]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Also to a little Tomas Hackett who sent me now two rock and roll books. A book about the Beatles and Dylan and a biography of sorts of the Rolling Stones and thank you, but stop sending. Don't. Don't send the rest of the library. I put them up. Everybody knows I put books up. Yes, when we do the show from home, I put books up. But, you know, don't send the rest of the library because that was really nice. Is there anything else? I didn't want to get into the derby because I'm going to talk to the. And talk about the derby all day, but I was so. I was just so happy.

[Philip Martin]

What a great day.

[Tony Kornheiser]

No, I did. I had a great day. I played golf in the morning. I played with Jimmy Crilly and his son Edward and with Steve Rose. And I thought that was it for the day. And. No, no, I got to go to this game and I don't go. You didn't think I'd been to any games last year?

[Josh Maurer]

No, I think last year was a year off for you.

[Tony Kornheiser]

A lay year, as they say in boat racing. So maybe I'll go to another one. I mean, if they have an afternoon game.

[Josh Maurer]

Let's get the parking.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, I got to get the player lot.

[Philip Martin]

Yeah. Play lots, everything.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I probably need somebody to drive me. I need the player lot. I stayed much longer. I mean, I stayed because they stayed. I would have left in the third. I mean, come on, people know me. I go to places. Michael and Liz had a. I can't stay long. Michael and Liz had a party for themselves on their both 40th birthdays within nine days of each other. Had a whole bunch of friends. I got on the phone to lit one the next morning, said, I have no friends. My children have friends.

[Josh Maurer]

The best part is you reached out to various people. I would describe them as your friends.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. But I see them. I'm like Litwin. I love Mike Litwin as my best friend, but I don't. Haven't seen. I see him once every five years. I mean, because we became friends through my. Through the job and Michael and Liz's friends are through their children at school.

[Josh Maurer]

That's where we are right now in our life.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Right. And it was lovely. And Chan made a toast. And it was. It was absolutely lovely.

[Josh Maurer]

Chan set off the fire alarm.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. And during the middle of the toast, the fire alarm went. And then I left early. Of course I left early. I was the first one to leave. I stayed long enough that no one would say, why is he leaving? Because I can't. That's not who I am. Yeah. I'm the first to arrive.

[Josh Maurer]

If we'll get you an opener, you can stay a little bit later. You know, if we get you the opener, you could stay later.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, that's right. The opener does a couple of toasts early and then I come in into the middle innings, do the big ones, and then I leave. But it was lovely. It was just beautiful. And Tracy Callahan did the flowers that I would describe as demure. They were lovely. Everything about it was great.

[Josh Maurer]

As the kids would say, that's our aesthetic.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. Oh, is that what the kids would say? It was lovely. All right, so we'll take a break. Is Wilbon's first.

[Philip Martin]

That's right.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Michael Wilbon, who, whether he denies this or not, I'm just saying horses before we get there. He. He said he loved the derby. He went into it angry, of course, at horsies, but he said his exact word was thrilling. So we will see if he owns up to that. I'm Tony Kornheiser. Some follow the noise. Bloomberg follows the money. Because behind every headline is a bottom line. Whether it's the funds fueling AI or crypto's trillion dollar swings. There's a money side to every story. And when you see the money side, you understand what others miss. Get the money side of the story. Subscribe [e-mail] this is the Tony Kornizer show. Let's be honest. Mother's Day gifts can get a little predictable. They're nice, but they aren't home runs. And the older you get, the more you realize how much moms actually do the stuff you didn't fully appreciate growing up. So it feels like they deserve something a little more lasting. And that's where aura frames comes in. Instead of something that fades after a few days, it's a gift that keeps evolving. You can keep adding photos and videos over time so it never feels static. It's also super easy to set up and it comes packaged beautifully so you don't have to overthink the presentation. It's just a more meaningful way to say thank you for everything past and present. Make Mother's Day special with Aura frames named number one by Wirecutter. You can save on the gift moms love by visiting auraframes.com for a limited time. Listeners can get $25 off their best selling Carver mat frame with code Tony K. That's A u r auraframes.com promo code Tony K. And when you check out, let them know you heard about our frames from us. Terms and conditions apply. This is the Tony Kornheiser Show. This is Philip Martin. This is a song. There are two songs today. This is called Biggie Minor. The next one is Nobody Wants to Hear your, which is the title song off his new album. That's a really good title.

[Philip Martin]

I just. Nobody wants to hear you sing.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Nobody wants to hear you sing. It's a really good title. Really good title. And. And we'll get to this later in the show. He gave me a couple of sonnets for the Lillehammer jacket. We'll get to this. Get this later in the show. Philip Martin, and he plays in Michael Wilbond. We're going to start with the basketball. We're going to get to the horses, but we're going to start with the basketball. And to me, I don't care when the game was played relative to the other games, but of the weekend basketball games, to me, the stunner is Boston going down at home for the like. Was that the second or third time in the series? Boston just flailing away from 28ft and not making any shots and losing to a team where there was obviously a real live head coach who said, let's take the ball inside to an unstoppable human being when he's healthy. When he's healthy. An unstoppable human being. And let's continue to score while the other team flails away. This is your sport. Honestly. What do you. What are they the last three games? What are they doing?

[Michael Wilbon]

Well, they're doing what they have done for the last four years. They lost in the championship round in 22 to Golden State, and they had, you know, a couple of these games. Then they had them earlier in the playoffs, too, where they just take three. Do they hit?

[Tony Kornheiser]

They always have one or two. But then they.

[Michael Wilbon]

Yeah, yeah. Well, listen, you said the victory. That was the most. They had two of those since you and I convened on pti. They had one Friday and they had one Sunday. Yeah, I guess it was Saturday. Thursday. I guess it was Thursday and Saturday. So, you know, one of the reasons I was tired of the Celtics is that I'm tired of their arrogance. I'm tired of their defiance. We're going to play this way. The first person to really call them out on this was Charles Barkley. Charles started calling on this years ago, and Charles did not think they would win doing this. And they did win. To be fair, they did want to chance.

[Tony Kornheiser]

They did. Yes.

[Michael Wilbon]

And so this year, you know, this playoff season, after they got Jason Tatum back and with 13 and three to close him back in the lineup. Yes, it looked like, okay, they look like the best team in the east.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yep, yep.

[Michael Wilbon]

And, but, but when you get in the playoffs and people who watch clips don't understand this defense ratchets up and people are in you and they're in you, particularly when they don't like you. And there's something as likable as I find these Celtics players, and I do know a few of these guys and I know Jaylen Brown better than Tatum. I know Tatum a little bit. I know Jaylen Brown. They're, they're likable guys. And, but people, you know, people respect their games, but they don't like the Celtics. And I think it has something to do in part with the way they play. But their stubbornness just, again, it's a defiance. We're going to play this way. And as Charles often says in real time. So you, you just basically refuse to go to a plan B no matter how good you are, no matter how talented you are. And you can do a lot of things because you got two all purp. Two way players who are not six foot two three point specialists. With Tatum at six nine and Brown at six seven. You can, they can do everything. No, we're going to play this way. So you know what? The hell with the Celtics. I'm glad they lost. I'm glad they're out.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Joe Missoula is likely to win coach of the year. He's one of three people on the ballot. Well, I'm just going to ask you this.

[Michael Wilbon]

Is he one of three?

[Tony Kornheiser]

He's one of three on the ballot.

[Michael Wilbon]

Okay.

[Tony Kornheiser]

How do you not call a timeout and say the following sentence? Hey guys, just for five minutes, why don't we try to make 50% of our twos instead of making 23% of our threes? Isn't, isn't that incumbent on the coach?

[Michael Wilbon]

No. And it's the whole system. And I don't, as much as we love Brad Stevens, I don't. Look, we know front offices have way too much to do with what happens on the floor more in baseball than in football or basketball. But, but way too much so. I don't know if this philosophy is mandated. I don't know. I'm not out there every day talking to, you know, GMs every day. And, but yes. What you're asking the question.

[Tony Kornheiser]

You're asking question.

[Michael Wilbon]

Why don't you people have a plan B? So they're either unwilling to have it or unwilling to employ it. Either way, I'm Tired of the Celtics.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Well, you don't have it anymore.

[Michael Wilbon]

Late in the game I'm watching with Matthew and he says that they still got a chance to say no because now Max is going to take over the game and he's not going to launch it. Maxi now understands he can go past any and everybody in a Boston uniform. And by the way, he'll do it. Anybody in the Knicks uniform too. But he did it three times in a row. Layup, layup. Free throws.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. This is what you do. Take the courtesy.

[Michael Wilbon]

It was great. Take the. Understood. Philly did understand. Tony.

[Tony Kornheiser]

They got a good coach. Okay. Nick Nurse has a ring.

[Michael Wilbon]

Yes.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So let's understand this. They got a good coach and when they got Embiid healthy, that coach is smart enough to throw the ball low to Embiid against a bunch of guys who can't guard him. Let me move off this to something. Let's look at Detroit. Detroit came back from 3:1. I know you love Orlando, but Detroit came back from 3:1 and, and this may be the critical take, which is what I'm going to say Today on the PTI program. Franz Wagner was out the last three games.

[Michael Wilbon]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay. Orlando lost all three. Cade Cunningham went 30 plus in each of those games and Wagner had held him down. Right?

[Michael Wilbon]

Yes, yes. And not only that, remember, Wagner is a 24 point scorer per game and Wagner's 6 9.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, he's a big kid.

[Michael Wilbon]

Wagner and Bancaro. The reason why some of us have so much in the way of expectation for that team coming into the season is because you have them both. Not one both. It's like a junior version of Tatum and Brown or growing version of that. At least it should be. And they don't. When they. I said too, when they. At 3:1, I thought they're going to win the series. But when they have Tatum and Brown, I mean they have Wagner and Bankero, they can do everything, Tony. But they didn't have, as you said, they didn't have Wagner and that was going to cost them.

[Tony Kornheiser]

It seems that it did. It seems, it seems to me that it did. If you want to, you know, go the analytical route, that Cade Cunningham, who was throwing the ball away in the first three, just throwing it away, had

[Michael Wilbon]

like 24 turnovers, a record number of playoff turnovers for three games. So you take that guy out of the lineup and there's no one to replace him. There isn't. And then. And that it's the same. Look, any team that loses a guy like that and that's that's the question about Oklahoma City going forward. Is J Dubs absence if he's still absent, how much if any will that cost? Even a team as deep as Oklahoma City? If anybody can replace a player, not sga, but anybody else. If anybody can do that, Oklahoma City can't. But I'm not, I'm not certain they can do it. It depends on it doesn't sound like Luke is going to make it back. So yeah, the Lakers are still missing more than Oklahoma City.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So this is your point, Tone, is

[Michael Wilbon]

the point about that series the Lakers won.

[Tony Kornheiser]

They won in Houston and you know when you got to give them a lot of credit, they win without Luka Doncic and they win with a 41 year old man who, and please understand me if you're out there, I'm not saying he's the greatest player ever played. I am absolute, I am absolutely not saying that and I'm never going to say that. But he's greatest 41 year old who ever played. I mean, come on, he's, he's a big time player now. They went 04 against Oklahoma City and they lost by an average of 29 points per game. They have no chance. Right? They have no chance.

[Michael Wilbon]

Well, the only chance again, as I said, is if a guy who is 69 himself about LeBron James size and speed and is, you know, 20, 25 years younger.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Michael Wilbon]

If they don't have that guy, maybe that opens up something. That's a, it's a maybe, Tone. They could get one game. I don't see. And you talk about a team that, that, that the opponent doesn't like when the lakers had won 10 straight and everybody was saying, oh, Luke is the MVP now. Luke is the MVP and Luca and Austin Reaves and LeBron is the latest big three and they're going to be, you know, Wilton Baylor and West and they went into Oklahoma City and Oklahoma City beat them by 32.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, this is what Oklahoma City is really better.

[Michael Wilbon]

Oklahoma City is really good and really talented and even though they don't woof, they don't do that. They have a meanness and a purpose to them. Let me not say meanness. That's the wrong word. There's a ruthlessness to them.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's fine, that's fine.

[Michael Wilbon]

And SGA is pleasant. There's a quiet charisma. It's more like a Bjorn Borg, Roger Federer, he, he's just, he's elegant in the way he goes about it. But that team is ruthless and I think they want to Take the two teams are ruthless, San Antonio and okc. And my belief is we'll wind up asking like Windhorse about this. And Perk. I think they want to take the Lakers apart limb from limb.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Well, they have a, they certainly have an opportunity. They certainly have an opportunity. So let me move on. I don't, I could talk about Cleveland, Toronto, but it's really, who cares? I mean, I, I think it's Harden's best chance to win, and Harden was not a significant factor in the series, so he's doing what he does in the playoffs.

[Michael Wilbon]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

But let me get to do you want to tell people what you thought about the horse race?

[Michael Wilbon]

One tell I, I, I, I, I use the word with you. I know I use this word once, at least. Exhilarating. I don't know any of the horses. I don't know any of the trainers. It was interesting to watch. The NBC did an unbelievable job just introducing the jockeys like the ball players.

[Tony Kornheiser]

It's a great show. I tell you, this year after year, it's the best sports show on television.

[Michael Wilbon]

I don't have any doubt about it. I just don't have any interest in it. And so I watched it warming up for. They did a great thing. They moved it an hour later a couple of years ago, which for those of us in a central time zone or the Pacific time zone, the two time zones I'm in every first week of May, I'm never in the east, and I wasn't on Saturday either. But it comes on at a better time. I sat down and watched it on an enormous screen where I could appreciate it. And they introduced the jockeys and I was fascinated that, like, four of them were from the United States and everybody else was. And there were 19 horses, I think. Yeah, 18 or 19 were from somewhere else, largely Puerto Rico, Mexico, France had three or four. It just, it was unbelievable. It looked, it looked like today's NBA is what it looked like. And so I watched it. And one horse goes down. You got to put him down right before he goes up.

[Tony Kornheiser]

They don't. Yeah, they don't put him down. Put him down means shoot him. They put him down.

[Michael Wilbon]

I don't even put him down to scratch them.

[Tony Kornheiser]

They scratched him.

[Pat 40]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

He scratch him because he threw his jockey before they got in the gate. What?

[Michael Wilbon]

Yes. That was crazy.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Michael Wilbon]

And it looked like we were watching, like I was watching, you know, a rehearsal for the Lone Ranger or something. Like, what the hell is this?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Michael Wilbon]

So I, I was, I was fascinated by the time and Then they. They're going through this. I'm like, you know what? This is going to be a waste of my time. I don't have anything else to watch right now. But I'm. The Cubs are over. I'm not going to be happy with wasting my time. I watched for an hour, and then the race comes, and Golden. Whatever.

[Tony Kornheiser]

It's Tornado Tempo Tornado.

[Michael Wilbon]

Is that. That he goes from last to first. It was unbelievable to me. It was. It was like a movie. It was like that movie with the horse that, you know. Was it Golden? What was it? Golden Tempo?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Golden Tempo. Not Golden Tornado.

[Michael Wilbon]

I wouldn't have known any of them.

[Tony Kornheiser]

But did you?

[Michael Wilbon]

I don't care about any of them. I only care, again, if that horse runs in the Preakness. If that horse doesn't run in the Preakness, I'm not watching.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So one of the things about the race, they understand. The people who produce and direct horse racing understand the value of camera angles. And in the last X amount of time, the last 8th, last 16th, whatever it was, they're showing you at times an angle from behind, and you see how far wide the winner is. It's unbelievable.

[Michael Wilbon]

Because the drones, Tone.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Because the drones.

[Michael Wilbon]

Drone shots that we've never had before. You couldn't see Secretariat like that. Right. It didn't exist.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Right, right.

[Michael Wilbon]

It's just so now.

[Pat 40]

Wonderful.

[Michael Wilbon]

Oh, my God. It was. It was fabulous. It was like watching a movie, but in real time.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. And it only takes two minutes.

[Michael Wilbon]

And the other people were doing it. Eddie. How about Eddie Olczyk To Rico and Eddie Olczyk.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Edzo's been doing this for years. He's been doing this for 15 years, Ed.

[Pat 40]

So he has.

[Michael Wilbon]

Eddie, old check. You know, a Southside Chicago boy like yours truly. Yeah, He. You know, we've. We've talked to him about this, and we've had him on for, of course, a week later for the NHL. But I saw Tirico. I saw Michael at the Garden Tuesday night, and I. I just said, dude, let me. Let me just say this. I've known you since your senior year at Syracuse. I don't know. And, you know, before Mike Tirico, there were. There were other people who did crazy. I mean, Al Michaels kept a crazy schedule. You know, not like Mike Green, not like Torico.

[Pat 40]

Oh, no, no, no, no.

[Michael Wilbon]

Kept a schedule. Musburger kept his schedule. Much like this.

[Josh Maurer]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I don't know. Did. Tirico goes from New York to Louisville to Philadelphia. You know, I mean, he was doing

[Michael Wilbon]

the game last night I get all praise. And Tirico says, shut up. You're doing the same thing. Like, no, I'm not. No, no, no. No one's doing this. I have nothing but admiration and praise for Michael.

[Tony Kornheiser]

And he did the Winter Olympics. He did a game and then got on a plane and did the Winter Olympics the next morning. What?

[Michael Wilbon]

And was back. And was back, like, you know, at Madison Square Garden. You're like, seriously? I texted him and I said, you're crazy. And he, you know, he texted right back, and it was. We had a laugh. But he. He. And he said he loves it. He said, this is why you do it. This. You have a window to do it, and you do it. And I. It was great to watch Michael and that broadcast and Edzo and I don't know any of the other people. I don't know them. I've never seen them. I think, even though I probably have, it was unbelievable, the broadcast, but the race, really good. And it wasn't like Golden Chariot or whatever his name was, was the only horse that came up like that on the outside.

[Tony Kornheiser]

No, two of them were coming up on the outside. Unbelievable. It's really good. All right, I'll see you later. I'll see you later. All right, Tom, Michael, Wilbon, boys and girls. We'll take a break. We'll come back with Pat40 with a different kind of analysis of the race and me and Wilbon. I'm Tony Kornheiser. You're listening to the Tony Kornheiser Show.

[Michael Wilbon]

Tony Kornheiser Show.

[Tony Kornheiser]

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[Pat 40]

Unbelievable. I mean, just incredible. To me it was. It was like looking at a high speed kaleidoscope where the picture twisted. The picture changes and changes and Changes and changes where I honestly thought four different horses were winning the race in a matter of seconds. I thought Dannon Bourbon was going to win and we were going to have this huge Japanese story. I thought Ocelli was going to win at 70 to 1 and we were going to have another one of those bomb stories. I thought Renegade was going to win and we were going to have him coming out of the number one post and Mike Rapoli finally wins the Derby. And then none of those things happened and Golden Tempo won and we had another great story.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So I had Andy Beyer on, on Friday and he said, normally I can't do it in the Andy Beyer way. But he said, normally, you know, he is dismissive of the Derby field, but he said no. There were a lot of horses in this 5, 6, 7, 8 horses that he thought were very good horses. He did not name them all. I don't think he would have had Golden Tempo in them. But what is the background of the winner? Should the winner have been bet down more? Does the winner have, you know, a stakes record that is more impressive than. Than the betters thought?

[Pat 40]

No, it really didn't. I mean, for Golden Tempo to even be 23 to 1, I thought he was slightly over best. You know, he won his first two races. His first one, he did not race until December 20th. He won that race. He won a stakes race in the fairgrounds in New Orleans, not a big one, and then came in third in the next two stakes races down there, including the Louisiana Derby. And you know, you don't usually come to the Derby off of consecutive thirds and win.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Right, right.

[Pat 40]

Adding to that, the. There were problems with the horse during the week. And the old adage, I have heard time and time again, being around the Derby is everything has to go perfectly Derby week. And I was at Cherie Devos barn Monday morning and they had Golden Tempo out jogging him on the asphalt outside the barn, having him trot and looking at his legs and looking to make sure he was running okay. I've seen, I see horses do this every day, never Derby horses. It's like you're checking kind of for soundness and with the, with your Derby horse. And she's feeling the ankles, she's looking at it. She's got other people there looking at him. Everybody looks very concerned. She starts snapping at people in her barn. She's yelling at him. And we like, wow, this is a really bad vibe here at this barn.

[Tony Kornheiser]

The jockey called the horse lazy, right? Said the horse was lazy.

[Pat 40]

Oh, yeah. But the horse had what was called cracked heels. And fortunately, she's the rare trainer who will tell the truth and tell you that's the case. Most of them would just say, oh, he's fine. And she said, cracked heels are no big deal. It's basically. I don't know, like, you're literally. I guess if you get cracks in the skin and the heels of a human foot, it's kind of the same thing. And so it wasn't. It turned out, boy, oh, boy, was it not a big deal. But at the time, that Monday morning, I was just thinking, no way this horse even runs, much less wins.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So because of the overhead camera from behind, you were able to see the choreography of the stretch. How wide did this horse go? What was the strategy that the jockey was employing?

[Pat 40]

Way wide. I mean, as wide as I've ever seen a Derby winner. I would say, you know, the old strategy is, of course, get to the rail, stay on the rail. And that's what he did to begin with. It was a brilliant ride by Jose Ortiz. Brilliant. So, you know, he. He saved ground right out of the gate because he knew his horse was going to be in last. He's a slow starter. He is. He is the one who called him lazy.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Pat 40]

And stayed there for a long time. Made a nice move to split. Two tiring horses coming on the turn, start of the turn, and then just revved up and followed Renegade, who was ridden by his brother.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yes.

[Pat 40]

Irad.

[Tony Kornheiser]

How weird is that?

[Michael Wilbon]

How weird is that?

[Pat 40]

I mean, it's unbelievable. And then, yeah, they get to the stretch, and he has to wheel outside of Renegade because Renegade is locked in a battle with incredibolt. And so he ends up closer, perhaps to the grandstand than through the rail when he passes his big brother, who has been the more accomplished Ortiz jockey until Saturday, and wins the Derby over him by a neck.

[Tony Kornheiser]

They showed. At the end of the race, they showed these. A group of women, you know, hugging and cavorting, and I had no idea who they were. And then I found out that one of them was the trainer, which is, of course, an odd circumstance. A female trainer winning a Triple Crown race. I think it's happened once before. Never in the Derby. Sherry Devoe. What is her reputation? How hard was it for her to get her own stable of horses? Because I wouldn't. I wouldn't think that she'd be the first choice of a lot of people.

[Pat 40]

Yeah, well, she should have been by 20, 24. So she. She. You know, she grew up. She's a Very interesting story. And a big personality is, I think that kind of came through the TV.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yes, yes.

[Pat 40]

You know, a lot there. She's one of 10 kids, grew up in Saratoga with a harness racing family, was around horses all the time, was studying pre med, got to the point of having to take organic chemistry and was like, I think I'll go work at the racetrack. And so she went and started at the lowest levels walking horses and do being an exercise rider. Worked her way up for 14 years with two different trainers. Went out on her own in 2018, took her nearly 11 months to saddle a winner. And then, you know, just piece by piece started putting it together. And then 20, 24, she really kind of broke through. 23, she was good. 24, she really broke through and had like $10 million in purse money. So she established herself. And I think at that point, that's when people like the Phipps who owned, you know, the. The blue bloods of. The blue bloods of the breeding industry center, horses like Golden Tempo. And so she was. She was going to be the first female trainer to win the Derby if anybody was going to do it. And she got it done.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Please tell me she'll run that horse in the Preakness and not be un American like Bill Mott last year. Please tell me she will.

[Pat 40]

No guarantees. No guarantees that they haven't. They haven't committed one way or the other. And right now it looks like if Golden Tempo doesn't run in the Preakness, nobody from the Derby is going to the Preakness. That's. That's way right now.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Even though it's three weeks now, it's later. It's.

[Pat 40]

No, it's not three weeks. That's been discussed. It has not been.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Oh, I thought it was okay.

[Pat 40]

No, no, it's two weeks. So we'll see. I'm sure there will be, you know, considerable PR pressure to run in it, but I don't know. I will say, look, as exciting as that race was, as dramatic, as fun to watch, Andy Byers speed figures, say, was the slowest Kentucky Derby ever.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Really?

[Pat 40]

History of his figures. Yes. Golden temple got a 95 buyer figure to win, which is really uninspiring. So you're not sitting there saying, okay, that's a great horse. It's just a horse that won an exciting race in exciting fashion and good for him. But I don't think people are going to be running around scared of facing Golden Tempo wherever he runs next.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So let me, Let me talk about Andy, because Andy liked further Ado. A lot of people liked Further Ado. For all I know, Further Ado was the favorite at post time. What happened to Further Ado?

[Pat 40]

I think he's still running. He's almost to the finish line. Yeah. You know, I mean, so many of the favorites bombed. They really did. And Further Ado. Further Ado had no excuses. Emerging Market was nothing. People liked, had no excuse. Commandment had no real excuse. They were well positioned. They were not on the front end of the pace. They had a shot in the stretch and they just didn't fire. They made no move. And so, you know, the. The touted horses other than Renegade, who had the hardest post position and got massacred out of the break, then got

[Tony Kornheiser]

bumped and pinched and. Yeah, I mean, it's a terrible first hundred yards for Renegade. I watched that.

[Pat 40]

Yeah. Yeah, that was brutal. And then Chief Wallaby, who I like, and Pig, they. He had a brutal trip, too. He got sideswiped in the stretch and looked like he was almost sideways at one point.

[Tony Kornheiser]

What happened before they loaded? What happened with the horse?

[Pat 40]

Yeah, that was wild Great White, who is a gigantic horse to begin with.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Right.

[Pat 40]

I mean, like. But seemed, I guess you would say, unstable during the week. I was. I was back behind his barn at one point, and he was. He was very unsettled, just walking around this very quiet area out by Longfield Avenue. You know, he's supposed to just be out there grazing, and he's rearing up and trying to get away from the groom. So, you know, watching that thing. And good luck getting this horse to the post on Saturday. And lo and behold, he rears up and dumped himself. And his rider, fortunately, didn't hurt either of them, but looked really scary.

[Tony Kornheiser]

It was a tremendous race. I mean, it was all of it. And it's a great television show. God, it's such a great television show. Plug your podcast for us on a completely different subject.

[Michael Wilbon]

Yes.

[Pat 40]

Others receiving votes. Si.com, youTube channel, whole deal. Sports Illustrated with Brian Fisher and Kevin Sweeney will be recording later today.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Fabulous. Thank you, Pat. Thank you.

[Pat 40]

Thank you. You bet, Tony.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Pat 40. He was there. I mean, this is where he lives. This is what he does. We will take a break. We will come back with email and jingle. I am Tony Kornheiser. You're listening to the Tony Kornheiser Show.

[Tom Masser]

Here comes Tony. Tony's mail back Gonna read some faxes and your notes. Here comes Tony's mail back Gonna read some for all you folks. Gonna read some for all of your.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Tom Masser with The brilliant Dan Burns, just trying to bring him back to earth.

[Josh Maurer]

That's the harmony.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Just so great. You want to do the Bethesda bagel here?

[Philip Martin]

Yes, Bethesda bagels. Ooh, bagel sandwiches. Yes. Always happy about that. Just go to bethesdabeagels.com for the location in the DC area nearest you. Then pop on in and you'll be thrilled.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Before we get to the mailbag, let me just say, I may not always love you, but long as there are stars above you, you never need to doubt it. I'll make you so sure about it. God only knows what I'd be without you. That's written by Brian Wilson. And when Paul McCartney heard that, he said, we got to get back to the drawing board. That's the best thing I've ever heard.

[Philip Martin]

But if you're going to make a list of, like the top 30American songwriters, you wouldn't put Brian Wilson on that list, would you?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Of course I would put Brian Wilson on that list. Paul Simon, Bob Dylan, Brian Wilson and Billy Joel.

[Philip Martin]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

And they left some of them off. Yes, they did. Which is insane. Thanks to our guests today, Michael Wilbon and Pat40. Thanks as well to today's sponsors. Remember, you can listen to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and Odyssey. Get show through Apple Podcasts. Please leave us a review. I just wanted to go through Philip Martin. The sonnets that he wrote. I'm reading them. I'm now reading them for the first time.

[Josh Maurer]

This is about the jacket?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yes, about the jacket. But you need to know. He's a columnist at the Arkansas Democrat Gazette, so he can write.

[Josh Maurer]

Yes, the no longer named jacket.

[Tony Kornheiser]

This is called the Lillehammer jacket. He wore it years. The Lillehammer coat. A name we spoke as if it held a place. Some northern light stitched quietly in the throat. A hint of winter settled in its face. We let it stand for travel, for a life that moved beyond the borders we could name the fabric took on weather cold and knife and gathered in our telling depth and claim. Then came the small correction, almost kind. An outlet rack fluorescent West Virginia. A coat for Lilly Hammer not of it. We find the story loosening thread by thread within you and I who praised the cut, the foreign air, check my own sleeves. What country have I worn? Worn there. That's great. I just read that for the first time. That's great. Yeah, that's great.

[Philip Martin]

That's how you sun it, kids.

[Tony Kornheiser]

There's another one. This is called Imposter Syndrome. He wore it years. The Lilly Hammer coat. We set it like a place cut into air, a word with metal in it, clean and cold, Some weather we could borrow, wear and share. It fit him well. That helped. We did the rest. A trip, a story, something earned in some snow. We gave the cloth a past it could suggest and let it pass for something we could know. Then came the tag. No scandal, just the fact. An outlet rack, West Virginia light, a coat for Lilly Hammer, not the act of winter Lived just dressed to look the part. And I who heard the iron in that name, check my own sleeves. What country stakes my claim? This Philip Martin. You can write. You can write. That's great.

[Josh Maurer]

Going back to 9th grade English right here. We're going to Petrarch and Shakespeare.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Just wonderful. Oh, a note. Chris Ullman. There's a story in the Wall Street Journal about Chris Ullman who is the world's greatest.

[Philip Martin]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

World champion whistler and from Binghamton, of course. And it's a story. Seth Krieger sends us strict schedule to prepare a story. He wants to. What does he want to do?

[Philip Martin]

He wants to whistle the national anthem for football in the NFL game.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Right. And he says you rarely find someone without an opinion. Ollman said around 80% of pro and 20% are quite Conan isn't stopping. He's on a mission to check what he sees as the final box of an award winning career. Whistling the national anthem at an NFL game. It's just great. I mean we are, I think the

[Josh Maurer]

best quote in there is when he offers to sing with a middle school like band and they just turn him down.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Tries to whistle, you know.

[Philip Martin]

So Roger Goodell should get on this.

[Tony Kornheiser]

We are very proud. Oh, absolutely. Very proud of Chris Oman. Very proud. How about that writing from Philip Martin? It's astonishing. Chuck Murphy, Columbia, Missouri. On Friday's podcast you mentioned that Greg Garcia was performing in St. Louis and reference it was the hometown of Chuck Berry. In addition to sharing the same name as Chuck Berry, same first name, I was also born and raised in St. Louis. In his later years, Chuck Berry would perform once a month at a small club in St. Louis. I was once fortunate enough to attend one of these shows and when it was over, he pulled up a chair and it was announced he would sign autographs for a certain dollar amount. I had no interest in getting his autograph, but I was not going to pass up the opportunity to shake the hand of the father of rock and roll. Once I got face to face with Chuck Berry, I put out my hand and he shook it. I leaned In, I said, Mr. Berry from one chuck to another it is complete honor to meet you. Chuck Berry held a firm grip on my hand and said, son, in this town there's only one Chuck that matters, and that is Chuck Berry. Now move it along as Chuck Berry has people with money in their hand to see Chuck Berry. That happened to nearly 25 years ago. I remember it like it happened yesterday. Sure, no need to ask to be the Official Chuck from St. Louis on this podcast because that title will always belong. Oh yes, to the one and only Chuck Berry. Let's see any Tim, Jeff, or Mike top that. Chuck Murphy, Columbia, Missouri who says this is a long one? Michael Ritz Mike Ritz Mike Ritz Putting on the Ritz Sometimes the connective tissue of your community is incredible. David Epstein's recent letter to your show told of his missed encounter with a famous fellow New York City resident, John F. Kennedy, Jr. On the playing fields of Central Park. Well, I can top that. You see, my friends and I had a Sunday morning touch football pickup game, a carryover from a game we started during our college games. One warm Sunday morning in the middle of our game, a young man in sweat sauntered onto our field to ask if he could join our game. Well, I said, we got seven seven game going. Can't just add one player. But if get someone else you can join, we can keep the team square. The young man said, sure, I get it, and walked away. My friend literally started smacking me. Did you just tell JFK junior To go get another player? You're an idiot. They screamed at me moments later. Here comes New York's most famous bachelor with someone jogging behind him. Even better, it soon became clear that his friend was someone I went to high school with, who later became friends with JFK in college. An astounding small world coincidence. They joined our game with John. Playing on my team was a fantastic morning, truly one of those only in New York City moments. John actually started drawing plays in the dirt for us to try. When I got home that day, I excitedly called my parents. Mom, I just threw a touchdown pass to John F. Kennedy Jr. I gushed like a schoolgirl. Our new friend John came out a few more Sunday mornings to play in our little game, and a couple of times I rode my bicycle back downtown with him. Since we both lived in the Village. He was unpretentious, but at the same time he was so aware of everything around him. He laughed at how people would stop to watch his every move. He's a great guy, a great athlete. It was fun being in circle for those few months Isn't that. Isn't that lovely? Isn't that. And Michael Ritz says mildly popular third wheel of the Loyal Littles podcast slightly better than a monkey. So I guess he's on with Chuck and Ross. I guess he is, yeah. Okay. Jeff Barger, Hillsboro, North Carolina. When Josh Maurer went to buy Hershey Kisses for pti, did he talk to Evelyn's mom? That's funny. That's so insulting. Jeff Piggott in West Des Moines. My water bill this month was $94.25, minus double that. Double that.

[Josh Maurer]

And it's not even host season yet.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, Mark lynch can be Indiana. I wanted to write in and check the status of my summer internship application. That's funny. Still pending. Elliot Olshansky I'm surprised no one has commented on the show yet about the Royals partnering with Hallmark on a plan to build a new stadium in downtown Kansas City. I think I speak for many of my fellow Littles when I say that the news brought two questions to mind. The first, of course, is where our favorite MLB manager, Matt Cotora, will. Will he be still managing the Royals when they take the field in their new stadium? I certainly hope so. The second is this. Since the Royals are partnering with Hallmark on this plan, will the new stadium have a gazebo? That's funny. Best regards for Albany county, where my dog Rollo is taking Proviable. I guess that's a drug. I hope Jesse's digestive system is doing better. Oh, look it up. Yeah, yeah, I'm not sure what that is. Don Ames in Kingston? In Ontario? In Canada. So the Lillehammer jacket's all a lie? No, it's not a lie. I never does that mean you actually like driving on the Bay Bridge, where you're actually a championship swimmer and conquered the pickerel area at Cancun? Perhaps you also don't think Brian Billick is a preening schmo? It's a brilliant email. It's brilliant. Say it ain't so. Wasn't a lie. Paul in Upper Arlington I'm planning on visiting D.C. in about two weeks for the annual National Police Week. I've been on the Columbus, Ohio, Division of police for almost 32 years, and I'll be retiring soon. I figured I should make this trip once in my career. In addition to attending some of the planned ceremonies, I'll be looking forward to meeting officers from departments around the country. A hobby of us, a hobby a lot of us have is we exchange uniform patches. I've been doing this for years and recently got the patch on the right in the photo below. Thought I would share it with you as the reason I reached out to these two particular departments was from you playing the clip at the end of the show and one of them is from Marblehead and one of them is from Riviera.

[Tom Masser]

Nice.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Also looking forward to getting a bagel sandwich at Bethesda Bagels and riding around town on the Metro, hopefully without catching fire. I feel I should be able to get around town fairly easily after having listened to all the DC traffic reports on the show. Mobilehead Revere.

[Josh Maurer]

Yeah, don't forget the zoo.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Say hi to Reggie and Jeremiah from Cincinnati via Yonkers Graters has a new flavor of coffee ice cream that you have to try. Have your people reach out to to your plug before the bonus flavor of the month is out of stock. I would try it. Sincerely, Jeremiah look at the new coffee. But yeah, you know, to see what we want. I thought the original Graters coffee was tremendous. Steve Gilmore in San Angelo, Texas as one farmer agriculturist to another, I just wanted to let you know that I laid down half a pallet of sod for my masculine golden retrievers to destroy yet again and planted pumpkin seeds again last year. The pumpkins died after two weeks. So I defer to your years of experience in horticultural knowledge on how to keep them alive this year. I'll hang up. Listen, I'm going to go out this week. I'm going to get tomatoes and peppers this week.

[Philip Martin]

This the week.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I'm going to try to find out. Call Buster and find out exactly how you plant the potatoes because we have the grow bags. The grow bags came and we're going to put them in an area that gets more sun than where we planted them last year where we didn't have a bumper crop. I held them, I threw them out.

[Josh Maurer]

I think we had rods.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Nigel saw me throw them out.

[Philip Martin]

I was a little astonished you'd held onto them.

[Tony Kornheiser]

They're so tiny. They're like raisins. They're so tiny. And one more from Travis Hagen in Hawley, Minnesota. Can you let me know where the cheeser he ended up placing in the derby? Wait a couple of years, pal. Wait three years. I think. I think we got a shot if you're out on your bike tonight. As always, do wear white, but I still need a bit of milk.

[Tom Masser]

Full fat which I've warmed in the micro wave. Trees have got a little depressed by the election news. Chirus playing late capitalism blues crackle lonely bottle of Chablis Let there be light sodium street lights green in the suburban night encays the D18 give the strain wings will ring Listen to that biggie miner make the spruce top shake Listen to that biggie miner make the spruce top shake. They sold and a bottle of Sprite Red cup communion with a little vodka pie she's got a melody maker and a little PVN peanuts keep bumping rhythm on the threshold lane there's enough nothing in her head that she's afraid to speak no one in her bed nothing going on next week no one in her bed the rent is still due next week There's a neon cross that's buzzing over aisle 13 there's something in the air angry and mean Something yellow and poison rising in the firmament maybe some kind of toxic air born of it. Maybe what we're seeing is the end of the experiment. On case the D18 give the strings a rate Listen to that big E miner make the spruce top shake Listen to that big E miner make the spruce top shake. She gets a little hopeful when she's in her cubs maybe you got to break it down before you build it up. She rolls up a little tone strokes a power cord Trying to tone alone and offer it to the Lord on case the D18 give the strings a rake Listen to that biggie miner make the spruce to top shake Listen to that biggie mine and make the spruce top shake. Tom and told Mike to sit up and play his guitar. I know you're talented but that don't make you no star. Somebody's gotta stand in in the back and Bob is here. Somebody's got to leave a quiet part on set. We all know how deep you feeling. Feeling don't mean a goddamn thing. You look like an English teacher nobody wants to hear hear you sing. I got the pentatonic box I know all four chords It's a paradox. I got all these airline rewards but ain't going nowhere except from stage to hotel room A blind of her efficiency just an old costume

[Tony Kornheiser]

we all know

[Tom Masser]

how deep you feel it Feeling don't mean a godamn. You look like a copy editor nobody wants to hear you sing. I got a five white champ and a T from the custom shop

[Michael Wilbon]

I

[Tom Masser]

want to take my truth on the stage they let it reel and rock Red says my be strings out of tune I tell him to go call the cops behind this SM58 going bleed till the feedback stops. Tommy toe Mikey was made for keeping time Then there's a compliment but it weighed on Mikey's mind. Natural selection have done gone and made its choice. Voice left him with a slow right hand and a songwriter's voice. We all know how deep you feel it. Feeling don't mean a goddamn thing. You look like a sports rider and nobody wants to hear you say sa.