“The Captain’s BLT”

Summary

The Tony Kornheiser Show: “The Captain’s BLT”

Episode Date: June 16, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode of The Tony Kornheiser Show features a special sit-down with legendary broadcaster Al Michaels, a segment with golf correspondent Doug Ferguson, and the usual in-studio banter with Michael Wilbon and other familiar voices. It’s a lively potpourri covering the NBA Finals, quirky baseball notes, tennis news, World Cup soccer, NFL outlooks, and a deep dive into the U.S. Open at Shinnecock. Woven throughout are personal anecdotes, memorable quotes, and plenty of classic Tony-style gripes and humor.

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Key Discussion Points

1. Why a Special Tuesday Episode (01:03)

• The podcast is out on an unusual Tuesday, justified by the rare availability of Al Michaels.
• Tony: “You get Al Michaels, you put him on. Now you can’t get him at 4:30 in the morning his time. That’s not reasonable.”

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2. The Captain’s Birthday and Family Traditions (02:17)

• Wilbon shares about his son Reed’s birthday and their homemade BLT tradition on focaccia, revealing family rituals as kids grow up.
  • Michael Wilbon: “There’s the birthday chair. Everyone gets their balloons. You get to choose the treat… Baby boy Reed has been asking for focaccia… he also wants a side of bacon.”

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3. Soccer Snubs: D.C. and the World Cup (03:33)

• Tony bemoans Washington, D.C. not being a World Cup host city, likening soccer fans to Subaru drivers and questioning decision-makers.
  • Tony: “It’s ridiculous that the capital of the United States of America is not hosting at least a group stage. This is ridiculous. How did that happen?”
  • Panel speculates it’s due to FedEx Field’s condition and Taylor Swift skipping D.C.

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4. Nationals Baseball Banter (04:44)

• Tony discusses the Nationals’ recent win, especially lauding pitcher Brad Lord for persistence after a rocky outing.
• Celebration of the team’s first time being three games over .500 since the 2019 World Series, with nostalgia for the team’s recent history.
  • Tony: “They are now three games above .500. Now, I have mixed emotions because Matt Catraro manages Kansas City and he listens to the show.”

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5. Breaking News: Serena & Venus at Wimbledon, Sorsby Scandal (07:32)

• Serena & Venus Williams: Planned doubles comeback at Wimbledon, but Tony predicts a short run due to age and recent form.
  • Tony: “Serena is 44, Venus is 46… I don’t think she can win. But maybe that would be one of the great comebacks of all time.”
• Brandon Sorsby (Texas Tech): Quarterback at the center of a gambling eligibility scandal, now declaring for the NFL supplemental draft.
  • Tony: “There’s no morality to it... This kid has admitted to betting something like $90,000 on football... but this kid has a right to have a career.”

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6. Baseball Rarities and Symmetry (12:50)

• Discussion of the rare PCA cycle achieved in reverse order: homer, triple, double, single.
  • Tony: “The odds against that are millions to one… The symmetry of that is wonderful.”

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Featured Guest Segment: Al Michaels (14:25–32:45)

A. Golf, Women’s Game, and Bel-Air (15:27–17:42)

• Al reflects on watching the Curtis Cup and being awed by young talent, plus feeling old when comparing swing distances.
  • Al Michaels: “Why are they using six irons when I’m using a three wood?”

B. Knicks Sweep Spurs: NBA Discussion (17:42–20:44)

• Tony and Al relive their New York sports childhoods, place Jalen Brunson in Knicks history, and warn against recency bias.
  • Al: “That performance in game five was one of the all-time classic performances by anybody in any sport, in any clinching scenario.”

C. Hockey Playoffs & Coaching Carousel (20:44–23:59)

• Detailed analysis of Carolina’s Cinderella run, the wildness of NHL coaching hires, and historic playoff streaks.
  • Al: “You get on a run like that. The only thing surprising was that they changed goalies midstream.”

D. World Cup Soccer: Outsider Perspectives (23:59–25:35)

• Jokes about Cape Verde tying Spain, the global nature of the tournament, and Tony’s self-admitted soccer ignorance.

E. Horse Racing Memories (25:35–29:03)

• Al details his long history covering the Kentucky Derby, Preakness, Belmont, and tells stories about legendary jockeys.
  • Al: “You couldn’t have gotten 18 to 1 on Bill Shoemaker if he was riding Mr. Ed.”

F. NFL Schedule & Rams Outlook (29:03–31:00)

• Previewing Al’s upcoming schedule, early thoughts on the Rams (favorites with acquisition of Garrett), and Sean McVay’s coaching tree.

G. PTI and Longevity (31:21–32:24)

• Al and Tony marvel at the 25th year of PTI and their viewership’s demographics.
  • Al: “No, it’s literate television. Literate.”

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Golf Deep Dive: Doug Ferguson Previews the U.S. Open (34:42–48:04)

A. Shinnecock as a Venue (35:25–36:55)

• Doug lauds Shinnecock’s uniqueness—“there’s none better in the country”—and warns about the wind being the course’s main defense.

B. Practice Rounds and Logistics (37:50–39:19)

• Ferguson reports players’ frustrations with crowded practice rounds and slow pace.
  • Doug: “It’s the only time in a practice round we ever try and get a foursome together just so that we know who we’re playing with… three and a half hours to get through nine holes. No fun.”

C. The Missing Titans: Tiger & Phil (40:06–42:47)

• Discusses the fading presence/influence of Tiger Woods and Phil Mickelson amid off-course scandals and personal tumult.
  • Doug: “They have just flat disappeared, these aging warriors… Phil’s just disappeared with that family health matter.”

D. Koepka’s Injury (43:27–44:43)

• Koepka arrives nursing a wrist/nerve issue; Doug is skeptical of his chances.

E. Bud Cauley’s Comeback Story (45:02–46:37)

• Heartwarming profile of Cauley, a once-wunderkind returning triumphantly from career- and life-threatening injury.

F. What It Takes to Win at Shinnecock (46:57–47:33)

• Doug’s formula: patience, short-game prowess, mental toughness—referencing former grit-laden champions.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Tony Kornheiser [on Serena/Venus at Wimbledon, 08:10]:
  “Venus is given exemptions to like the local tournament here and loses in the first round. Maybe she wins one. She beats a high school kid, and then she loses to somebody in the main draw because she can’t play to a Wimbledon standard anymore.”

• Al Michaels [on Bel-Air, 16:05]:
  “Why are they using six irons when I’m using a three wood?”

• Al Michaels [on Jalen Brunson, 19:24]:
  “That performance in Game 5 was one of the all-time classic performances by anybody in any sport in any clinching scenario.”

• Tony Kornheiser [on DC not being a World Cup City, 03:57]:
  “Every other country in the world has its final in the capital… I’m not saying FedEx Field isn’t a dump… but the World Cup, some portion of it, should be held there.”

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Important Timestamps

• 01:03 - Why a Tuesday show, Al Michaels taping logistics
• 02:17–03:30 - Birthday BLTs and family talk
• 03:33–04:31 - DC and the World Cup snub
• 04:44–07:04 - Nationals game, Brad Lord, and stats
• 07:32–12:15 - Serena/Venus at Wimbledon; Sorsby NCAA scandal
• 14:25–32:45 - Al Michaels long-form segment
• 34:42–48:04 - Doug Ferguson U.S. Open preview
• 49:55–56:39 - Listener mailbag with Father’s Day reflections and show anecdotes

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Listener Mailbag & Closing Segment Highlights

• Poignant letters around Father’s Day move Tony and Michael to reflect on family and gratitude. (52:23–53:40)
• Classic music trivia: Tony riffs on Bob Dylan’s legacy (49:55).
• Fun banter about “Bethesda Bagels” and the enduring community of loyal podcast “littles.”

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Tone and Style Summary

The episode blends Tony’s wry, self-deprecating humor and nostalgia with sharp, informed sports talk. The conversations are fluid, friendly, and full of both warmth and good-natured ribbing. Al Michaels and Doug Ferguson provide expert, conversationally rich insights, and the mailbag hammers home the show’s unique bond with listeners. The episode is, as usual, a quirky, heartfelt ride through the world of sports, culture, and friendship.

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Standout Moments

• Wilbon’s “birthday chair” and family focaccia traditions (03:00)
• Tony’s exasperation over DC’s World Cup snub (03:33, 04:13)
• Al Michaels’ horse racing stories: “You couldn’t have gotten 18 to 1 on Bill Shoemaker if he was riding Mr. Ed.” (25:48)
• Listener letter about the meaning of Father’s Day and family connection (53:39)
• Doug Ferguson’s Tiger Woods clock anecdote (39:28)

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If you missed this episode, you missed a masterclass in convivial, informed sports talk, full of wisdom, laughs, and the kind of life lessons that can only come from years of friendship and fandom.

Transcript

[Tony Kornheiser]

Hey, it's Tony. On today's show, we'll talk to Al Michaels about the Knicks, the World cup horse racing, the NFL. And we will preview the US Open in Shinnecock with Doug Ferguson. But first, commerce.

[Al Michaels]

Previously on the Tony Kornheiser Show. They've got me here for free, and I am willing to write, and I believe that I write well. And it's like, okay, you're paying some of these people, but you've got a hungry college kid in Spike Braun that's coming for those jobs soon enough. But, yeah, they've only got us doing the group stage.

[Tony Kornheiser]

This is the most important question. Do you have an expense account? Can you eat for free? This is General George Washington, and you're listening to the Tony Kornheiser Show. What a delight to have him on. What a delight to know.

[Michael Wilbon]

Should have spliced in a young Spike saying, choke Lahoma.

[Unidentified Short Interjection]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That he's making progress in a profession that is dying. Profession that I respect. Tremendous.

[Guest or Producer (possibly Nigel)]

Sure.

[Michael Wilbon]

How about that confidence?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, it's very confident.

[Guest or Producer (possibly Nigel)]

I spoke with the parents after that, and they were both just absolutely thrilled, Kim and Gary.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So, yes, that's great. Okay, so you're saying to yourself, wait, Tuesday, why is there a podcast on Tuesday? There's never a podcast on Tuesday. There are a lot of reasons to have a podcast on Tuesday, but the main reason, honestly, is that we have Al Michaels on the show today. We taped Al Michaels last night. Didn't want to hold it for an extra day. You know, I mean, you get Al Michaels, you put him on. Now you can't get him at 4:30 in the morning his time. That's not reasonable. But you can get him at, you know, 3:30 in the afternoon his time, which is what we did yesterday.

[Michael Wilbon]

Post golf, pre dinner. Post golf, pre dinner.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's right. He has not yet gone to Toscana to go to dinner. And he's out of Bel Air. He's played. He's played. You know. You know the Al Michaels thing with caddies and speed of the putt.

[Michael Wilbon]

No, but usually in L. A, they do it by percent. So, yes. You know, then once they just get it halfway, they'll go. This is 60%, you know. 60% of what?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yes. So he asks them. He asks caddies to. If, let's say it's 4%, 4%. Like, you just have to breathe on the ball.

[Michael Wilbon]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Caddy will say, Brett Favre. Cause Favre wore number four. If it's 60% or 61%, you know, if you need the 51%. Yeah. You got to have the right roster. 50 halfway putt. Dick Butkus, he wore 51. And that's how Al does it. All right, so there's a lot of small things I want to talk about here. And to begin with, it was the captain's birthday yesterday.

[Al Michaels]

Got a shout out.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Got a shout out on the air with his real name, the captain. No, it's Reed, baby.

[Michael Wilbon]

Reed's no longer a baby.

[Tony Kornheiser]

You made. He's still the baby to me. Don't put baby in the corner.

[Michael Wilbon]

Nobody puts baby in the corner.

[Tony Kornheiser]

You made BLTs last night on focaccia bread that you made yourself. That was the best sandwich ever.

[Michael Wilbon]

So what's amazing, it's no turkey club for you. What's amazing is as your kids get older, you start to have these just traditions that creep up. So there's the birthday chair. Everyone gets their balloons. You get to choose the treat. And we've started to do that. You choose your birthday dinner. So for the last couple weeks, baby boy Reid has been asking for focaccia, which, you know, I make from the sourdough starter that Liz gave me years ago. So it's great because it's a multi day process. I'm sending her pictures. And he also wants a side of bacon. So for the adults, we get a blt. For him, he gets bacon and focaccia.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Oh, it's great. It was absolutely great.

[Michael Wilbon]

We're getting some early season tomatoes. It was awesome. Little pesto.

[Tony Kornheiser]

The other thing, one of the other things I thought of, and this is sort of a random open and I'm not going to go into soccer. I'm not going to do it. I'm not going to just go on and on about how soccer fans are the subarus of sports. I'm not going to do it.

[Guest or Producer (possibly Nigel)]

Are you going to do your early power rankings?

[Tony Kornheiser]

No, I'm not going to do that. But I am going to say this. It's ridiculous that the capital of the United States of America is not hosting at least a group stage.

[Guest or Producer (possibly Nigel)]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

This is ridiculous. How did that happen? How did it happen that every other country in the world has its final in the Capitol? Okay, you don't want to have the final here. Where's the final in la? Or is it in Dallas or the Meadowlands? It's fine.

[Michael Wilbon]

Oh, no, it's in New York.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I don't care about that.

[Guest or Producer (possibly Nigel)]

There should be at least.

[Tony Kornheiser]

But there should be a group. The last time it was here, there was a group stage.

[Guest or Producer (possibly Nigel)]

Yeah. Yeah, there should be that.

[Tony Kornheiser]

At least that and whoever is responsible for that. I don't know why that happened.

[Michael Wilbon]

All this happened when Taylor Swift skipped D.C. for the eras tour.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Do you think that's it?

[Michael Wilbon]

No, I think people started to move past wanting to go to FedEx Field.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay. I'm not saying FedEx Field isn't a dump. I'm saying it's the capital of the United States of America and the World cup, some portion of it, some small portion, should be held there. I watched the Nats last night.

[Michael Wilbon]

Another big fifth inning.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. I had my problem with the Nats. The Nats were ahead one nothing or two nothing.

[Michael Wilbon]

They're two nothing.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Nats were ahead two nothing. Alvarez started the game and pitched four innings or something like that and had given up maybe one run. Nothing special. They bring in Brad Lord. Brad Lord's my favorite pitcher on the team because he works long relief. He goes out there, you give him the ball. He does the best he can, and he's got a pretty good earned run average. He had a very bad night early his first inning there. He gave up two runs, and he looked bad, and I thought, oh, this is it for him. But he stayed in there and did better after. Down three, two. Down three, two. And then the Nats get a thousand runs, as they tend to do. Part of it was.

[Guest or Producer (possibly Nigel)]

It's one of those.

[Michael Wilbon]

They seem to concede those runs in those middle innings, just assuming that they would take over with their offense.

[Tony Kornheiser]

They. You know, a few of those runs were a Dylan Cruz home run, a rope that.

[Doug Ferguson]

It.

[Tony Kornheiser]

It could not have been less of a flight. It was in the corner in the left field stands. Whatever the measurement is.

[Unidentified Short Interjection]

Yeah.

[Michael Wilbon]

It was like a high school physics experiment.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. Whatever the measurement is, it could. You maybe could have squeezed out 8 more inches. It could have been shorter by 8 inches, but it was a rope right to that side, left side. Why do the people in the. Is it the right field stands? Why do they take their shirts off?

[Michael Wilbon]

Oh, that's just become a thing.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Hundreds of people are up there without shirts. Hundreds. Right.

[Michael Wilbon]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

What are they doing?

[Michael Wilbon]

It's a beautiful night for it.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. What are they doing? That's craziness. Anyway, so he was part of that. And I need an answer on why they're taking their shirts off, and I need an answer on why there's no soccer here in capital, United States of America. I may have some answers on that. Well, not. I don't want it right now. The N. Nats, we need. We have to open Another show tomorrow. The Nats won.

[Michael Wilbon]

But what's your third?

[Tony Kornheiser]

The Nats are 3 over.500 for the first time since when?

[Michael Wilbon]

The World Series.

[Guest or Producer (possibly Nigel)]

No kidding.

[Chris Joseph]

Yes.

[Guest or Producer (possibly Nigel)]

Wow.

[Tony Kornheiser]

First time since 2019.

[Michael Wilbon]

I mean, they reliably haven't been winning since the summer around this time, late June, early July of 2021, before all the trades started to happen.

[Guest or Producer (possibly Nigel)]

But you would think at some point one of those years, April, they would have gotten up to like a five and two start or something.

[Michael Wilbon]

No, a fast start would be one or two games under.500.

[Tony Kornheiser]

A fast start for them is like the Knicks in the first quarter just down by dead.

[Guest or Producer (possibly Nigel)]

We got them right where we want.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So there they are now, three games above.500. Now, I have mixed emotions because Matt Catraro manages Kansas City and he listens to the show.

[Michael Wilbon]

We have an update.

[Tony Kornheiser]

He's our favorite. What is our update?

[Michael Wilbon]

The family. We might be going to the game tonight.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I thought.

[Michael Wilbon]

We are working on it.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Oh, okay.

[Michael Wilbon]

We expect.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Say hello to Matt.

[Michael Wilbon]

Yeah, we're trying to, you know, so

[Tony Kornheiser]

that would be nice. So we want him to win.

[Michael Wilbon]

They won that challenge in the eighth inning.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Beat the Nats.

[Guest or Producer (possibly Nigel)]

Yeah, win all the time. Just not right now.

[Tony Kornheiser]

All right, so let me get to the. There's two breaking news stories today that we will deal with just here because we're not bringing on a guest for this because we already have Al and we didn't ask him about it. And we have Doug Ferguson to talk about golf. One of the stories is that Serena Williams and Venus Williams will play doubles together at Wimbledon. That's going to be a short run. They're going to go out, I believe, in the first round. Wilblin is going to be very excited about this to see Serena. Serena is 44, Venus is 46. Venus is given exemptions to like the local tournament here and loses in the first round.

[Doug Ferguson]

Right.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Maybe she wins one.

[Guest or Producer (possibly Nigel)]

You want one or two? Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

She beats a high school kid and then she loses to somebody in the main draw because you can't play on. She can't play to a Wimbledon standard anymore. She can't. Serena Wilbon somehow has deluded himself into thinking she's going to be a champion again if she plays singles. Now she may very well play singles at Wimbledon. I don't know. I mean, what I wonder about, why is she coming back? This is going to sound very cynical, but I wonder if it has something to do with the weight loss drugs that she's endorsing and if she wants to see if she can Play and that would help the business. And you know what? That's okay. Yeah, I'm okay with that. But you got to go out there and play.

[Al Michaels]

She's.

[Tony Kornheiser]

This is Serena Williams. Now. This is not Venus Williams, who hasn't played really to any high standard in quite a number of years. Yeah, Serena Williams, I think could just on muscle memory, if she's speedy around the court, I don't know what her power is without. You know, I don't know if weight loss diminished her power. It may not have at all. Yeah, if she's Serena Williams, she can get to the quarters, she can get the semis. I don't think she can win. I don't. But maybe that would be one of the great comebacks of all time. Of all time.

[Guest or Producer (possibly Nigel)]

I mean, she's given like 20 years on the top seeds in the women's field, so, yeah, it would be.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Although the women's field, it's not like Sinner and Alcaraz.

[Guest or Producer (possibly Nigel)]

No, it's.

[Tony Kornheiser]

It's not.

[Guest or Producer (possibly Nigel)]

They lose. They could lose. I mean, we just saw it like all the top seeds just lose.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, they lose.

[Guest or Producer (possibly Nigel)]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

But that's. That is a much more wide open tournament than the men's tournament. Yeah, so we'll see. And the other thing is, which is, I think a bigger story actually, is that the quarterback, Brandon Sorsby, the cause of all this sturm and drong, as people say, in the Big 12 and in college football in general, the kid at Texas Tech who went to court to get an injunction which would allow him to play this year after the NCAA had denied his ability to play, he got an injunction at a Texas court. And everybody's mad at Texas Tech for doing this. And Texas Tech is saying, oh, we didn't do it. He did it. Oh, stop, stop. You're paying him $5 million. You did it. You did it. And just so you understand the hypocrisy here, if this kid was playing for Baylor in the same conference, Texas Tech would be leading the charge to get him declared ineligible. Just so we understand, this is just about winning football games and making money. There's no morality to it, but this kid has admitted to betting something like $90,000 on football, his sport, and bet on games when he was at Indiana that his team played. He didn't play in the games, but still it seems unseemly. So he is declared for the NFL supplemental draft last week. One of the things that Texas Tech said in its defense of having Sorsby on the squad this year, beyond character Development, which I found ludicrously funny. One of the things they talked about was he has a right to have a career, and he does. And I said, let him have a career in the NFL. Yeah, well, now he's applying. He's out. He's apparently out of Texas tax.

[Michael Wilbon]

They're saying he's betting on himself.

[Tony Kornheiser]

He's betting on himself. I saw what you did there. But then, look, I. The. The NFL. The NFL has less of a morality problem than college sports. Okay. And the NFL is a partner with gambling concerns. We understand this. But it is possible the NFL could say, hold on a second. You're going to have to prove to us that you're not going to gamble anymore. You're going to have to go through a certain amount of hoops here so that we know you're not going to gamble anymore. And they might say you can draft them to any team in the league. That doesn't mean we're going to let them play. Right off the bat, they could say that. This is, to me, the best possible ending for everyone but Sourceby.

[Guest or Producer (possibly Nigel)]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

You know, Sorsby's had a better deal yesterday. Sworesby was getting $5 million from Texas Tech yesterday. He's not getting anything today. And you don't know what the future is now. He's a good quarterback. Is he an NFL? I don't know. Well, I don't. I don't know if he's an NFL quarterback. He could be an NFL quarterback, but. So. So those are the two news stories that I assume we're going to talk about on the PTI show. Yeah, I assume. I don't know. I mean, Mike want to. Might want to still talk about the Knicks and the draft and the Chicago Bulls signing Tiago Splitter as well.

[Michael Wilbon]

You have a PCA cycle.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Petro Armstrong backwards.

[Guest or Producer (possibly Nigel)]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

When Homer, triple, double, single.

[Guest or Producer (possibly Nigel)]

That's difficult.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Fantastic.

[Guest or Producer (possibly Nigel)]

Oh, it's so great.

[Tony Kornheiser]

One of the odds against that is millions to one.

[Sponsor Voice]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

It's got to be that you're going to, A, get the cycle, and B, you're going reverse, you know, not that everybody goes single, double. They don't. Yeah, but that's. The symmetry of that is wonderful. Anything else? Can we stop the open?

[Guest or Producer (possibly Nigel)]

I think we stop the open and.

[Tony Kornheiser]

And Al is next. And Al is next. Al is next.

[Doug Ferguson]

Yes.

[Tony Kornheiser]

And then after Al is Doug.

[Guest or Producer (possibly Nigel)]

That's correct.

[Doug Ferguson]

Tony.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I'm Tony Kornheiser.

[Sponsor Voice or Announcer]

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[Sponsor Voice or Announcer]

This is the Tony Kornheiser Show Tony

[Al Michaels]

Kornheiser show

[Tony Kornheiser]

this is called Life Can Be. This is sent in to us by Mark Hughes who says My friend Chris Joseph was diagnosed with third stage pancreatic cancer 10 years ago. Decided to put his perspective on life into music. Chris teamed up with an accomplished New Orleans based musician, Paul Sanchez and Alex McMurray in 2017. Result was a beautiful song, Life is a Ride. Recently the cancer returned. Once again, he partnered with Paul and Alex and his new look on life. A decade after his first diagnosis, his life can be. We are happy to be able to play this song and we wish him all the success in his medical fight. At this point, obviously it plays in my friend Al Michaels, Uncle Big Al. We arrange this so that he doesn't have to get up at three in the morning to be on. We're taping it obviously on Monday evening. Did you go to the Curtis Cup? Was at your place? Was at Bel Air and was on TV and I watched a couple of hours of it. I sort of liked it. Did you go to it?

[Al Michaels]

I watched it completely in Repose.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay.

[Al Michaels]

Not in Rod. Not in Roger Repose. Who you remember for the Yankees three years ago? No, I decided to stay at home and just enjoy the visual treat of watching my golf course on the Golf Channel. And I thought that the play was, was great. The girls are tremendous. Yes, I call them girls, young ladies, you know. So at Bel Air we are also the home course for the UCLA women's golf team. Women and men's both. And I'm on the range once in a while with them and I'm going, why can't I swing like that? And you know, I was watching so much of the, of the tournament and it was inspiring in one way to watch the way they play. But, Tony, very depressing in the sense that since I know every shot on that course from every possible angle, why are they using six irons when I'm using a three wood?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Al Michaels]

Why?

[Tony Kornheiser]

This is what life is. Life, as you get older, is I need another three wood. I need more three woods. We had at Columbia, we had the boys junior 20 years ago and the girls junior two or three years ago. And it's wonderful to see your course on the Golf Channel. It's wonderful, right?

[Al Michaels]

I loved it. I loved it. And, you know, it's so funny, too, because you see so many of the shots are taken from the green going backwards. So, I mean, I know the course obviously inside out from the T to the green. That's the way you play it. I very rarely, you know, turn around. So I'm watching with, with Linda the other day, my wife, and I'm. I'm trying to figure out what hold they're on, because when you see it from that angle, you don't really recognize it. But the course was in fantastic shape. I heard from a lot of people who really enjoyed it, and it went very well. And we had the U.S. women's Amateur, I think, three years ago. And then the U.S. women's Open with Nellie Corda was played at Riviera down the block a couple of weeks ago. So it's been great to watch these kids in action. They've been tremendous.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I think it's an honor when you get on the road to some degree, even with something relatively minor. I think it's really good. Let me. Let me shift gears here. Your thoughts on the Knicks beating the spurs, sweeping them in San Antonio, Sweeping them.

[Al Michaels]

I wish I was on couch. What can I tell you early on? Yeah, you look, you and I both grew up in New York, in the New York area, and I was a Knicks fan until I was in a 14, and then I moved to LA and then the Lakers moved out here and I became a Lakers fan. But I could definitely feel what that felt like for somebody who spotted the next all of those years. And, you know, it's not quite to the degree it was with the Rangers, but people forget. And I was there in 1994 when the Rangers had not won a Stanley cup since 1940 and how excited that town was. And I went to the fifth game when they had a chance to clinch and lost to Vancouver, went back to Vancouver and lost a game 6 and came back and won it with, you know, Mark Messier, guaranteeing a victory at some point during the playoffs. But that town was crazy about the Rangers and I guess even crazier about the Knicks. I mean, that was, that, that was a series to behold. It was just tremendous. And you know, you talk about the old cliche about no lead is safe. That proved it in spades.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Oh, absolutely. I mean, the Knicks, the Knicks were great. And they also got lucky that they. That the spurs let him off the hook every single game. Put Jalen Brunson. Where do you put him on the Knicks hierarchy? I have him third now, but I don't. But he'd have to win two more to get ahead of Reed and Frazier for me.

[Al Michaels]

Yeah, I mean, look, there's recency bias. So a lot of people want to put him on top, right?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Oh, no, no, no.

[Al Michaels]

Well, a lot of people. But, Tony, if, you know, if you're 30 years old, you want to put. You don't remember Reed and Frazier. You don't remember the guys that we remember. You don't remember Richie Garon or Carl Braun or Ron Sobey, whose real name was.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, right.

[Al Michaels]

Remember that.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So, BS Check Holtzman.

[Al Michaels]

Yeah. This is when we get into, we get into our alpacaca mode here.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, yeah, sure.

[Al Michaels]

Yeah, we, we knew how great those guys were, but, you know, today it's like, what have you done for me in the last 15 minutes? But that performance, that performance in game five was one of the all time classic performances by anybody in any, in any sport in any clinching scenario. He was off the charts, magnificent. So, you know, he's right there. He's right there in that whole pantheon right now.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I agree with that.

[Al Michaels]

You and I, it's hard to say who is, you know, better from different generations was showing Ohtani better than Babe Ruth. I mean, you can argue this until you're, you know, until you're red in the face. So I prefer to think of guys in terms of what era are we in? And for right now, I mean, I'm telling you, that performance the other night was just.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Al Michaels]

Fabulous.

[Tony Kornheiser]

45 in a, in a clinching game. 15 in the fourth quarter. Oh, no, it's. It's great, right? I don't know that that many people know how well you know hockey. So tell me what your thoughts are on Carolina beating Vegas and going 8 and 1 on the road in the playoffs and 16 and 3 overall, the second best ever in the NHL.

[Al Michaels]

Well, I think the best was the. Well, the. One of the best was the Los Angeles Kings. My Kings now used to be my Rangers now it's my Kings.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Al Michaels]

In 2012, when the Kings barely got in and the kings were 16 and 4 and at one point they were 50, they were 15 and 2. Had a chance to clinch the Stanley cup at home against New Jersey in game four, only to lose. Go back to Jersey and lose the next game and come back and win in Game 6 at Staples. So the Kings that year were 16 and you get on a run like that and what. The only thing that really was surprising about the. The. The Carolina run was the fact that they changed goalies in midstream.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yes.

[Al Michaels]

Now, normally, I mean, it's always about the hot goalie in the playoffs. And the Kings won. To Stanley Cupsby is Jonathan Quick was over the moon, off the charts. Fantastic. Without him, they don't win either. They don't come close. So you need a hot goalie, which Anderson was until he wasn't. And then they bring the other kid in and they win it. And also, you know, it's funny to. I mean, it's a marvelous sport. They're playing it at a level right now that's just off the charts. I mean, it's like it's racehorse hockey. It's wonderful. It's fantastic. Back and forth they go. That's what the National Hockey League has become. You know, another interesting thing, Tony, is they think about Vegas and they were struggling, but they were still, you know, on top of a weak division. And then they fire Cassidy.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yep.

[Al Michaels]

Who had gotten them, had won a couple to get to the.

[Tony Kornheiser]

He'd want to.

[Al Michaels]

You know what? It's not that unusual. And I'll tell you why. When you think about Larry Robinson took over the Devils back in like 2000, 2001 a cup. Want to cut and want a cup. And don't forget, when my kings in 12 won a cup, they fired the coach and brought in Darryl Sutter, and he won. He. He won two cups. 12 and 14. So it's not. It's not that unusual. And hockey is. Is weird in the sense that you keep bringing back. I don't want to call them retreads, but they're coaches who get fired multiple times. The Kings just did it again. They brought Peter Lavio. Less going to come.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yes.

[Al Michaels]

And I'm happy about that. I think he's a great coach.

[Tony Kornheiser]

The Olymp.

[Doug Ferguson]

The chick.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Al Michaels]

It's the sixth team he's coached.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Al Michaels]

So these guys are in there, in and out. Like they're very disposable in the minds of the front office. Very oftentimes and so again, they pulled it again with Tortorella coming in and. And getting him as close as you can get to winning the Stanley cup, but has to offer to Carolina. That was just a truly magnificent performance and a wonderful Stanley cup final. Wonderful.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Are you paying attention to the World Cup? I'm sitting with Wilbourn, who claims to single game and know something about every single country. And I sit there and I go, not me. Not yet. Are you paying attention?

[Al Michaels]

Now, wait a minute. Does Wilmot know anything about Cape Verde? Come on.

[Tony Kornheiser]

He knows enough to know that he was stunned that they tied Spain.

[Al Michaels]

We. Well, yeah. Tony, you have to look this up. I mean, Spain is a country of what, 60, 70, 80 million? I haven't looked it up.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I looked up Cape Verde in the hundreds of thousands. Nothing.

[Al Michaels]

And not only that, there are like a whole bunch of islands in the archipelago. It's not even like one country that's condensed. It's like they get all these kids from all of these islands and they bring them together and they're good enough to wind up tying draw, I guess, if you use the right vernacular these days. So, no, I am not a big. I'm not a big soccer fan by any stretch of the imagination, but I am excited about this, and I have now watched about four games already, and I'll probably watch the Iran game tonight, at least. They're playing at Staples, otherwise known as. As Los Angeles Stadium. It's. You're not allowed. God forbid you should mention the name of the stadium. Right. The FIFA control everything.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I think they do. I think they do. Wilbourne. Will one actually said this to me today off air. You know, most of the Cape Verdeans. I know they've settled in the Boston area. I just looked at him. I said, what?

[Al Michaels]

They what? What?

[Tony Kornheiser]

They settled in the Boss.

[Al Michaels]

Really?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Oh, okay.

[Al Michaels]

Great.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Did you ever. I'm. I'm wondering about this. I don't know the answer. Did you ever call a Triple Crown race a horse race? Did you ever.

[Al Michaels]

I call Tony. I did 43.

[Tony Kornheiser]

What?

[Al Michaels]

I did what every.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I did for ABC.

[Al Michaels]

I didn't call the race.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, but you know what I mean.

[Al Michaels]

Jim. Jim McKay and I co hosted every Kentucky Derby from 1986 through 2000. Oh, my God. I did every Preakness, every Belmont from 1987 to 2000. So my first Derby was in 86, and that was the day that Ferdinand, at 18 to 1, trained by Charlie Whittingham, great West coast trainer who rarely brought a horse to Kentucky, and ridden by Bill shoemaker and paid 30, $38 in change and won the race. And one of the things I said after that race, having, you know, followed west coast horse racing very, very closely for the years is, is you couldn't have gotten. A few years ago, you could not have gotten. You couldn't have gotten 18 to 1 on Bill Shoemaker if he was riding Mr. Red. Right.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Well, because he's one of the greats of all time. Yeah.

[Al Michaels]

No. Oh, my God. Growing up out here and going in. My mother, you know, I think I told you the story. My mother used to take me out of school. Alan has a dentist appointment. She took me down to Hollywood park with Santa Anita. We bet the daily double. That was. That was my. That was. That was my mom. The greatest mom of all time. So in those years, Shoemaker was always 4 to 5.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yes.

[Al Michaels]

18 to 1.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yes.

[Al Michaels]

So I did that. I did the Sunday Silence Easy Goer series.

[Tony Kornheiser]

How do you remember these names of these horses and the trainers and the jockeys? What would you do now? So you love horse racing. What would you do now when these trainers bag the Preakness and obviate the Triple Crown? You can't win it. What would you do?

[Al Michaels]

Well, it happened a couple of years ago. I mean, there have been some Triple Crown winners in the, you know, in the. In the 21st century.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Al Michaels]

But now I can understand that. And I thought, you know, what they should have done or maybe will do at some point is you got to get an extra week between the Derby and the Preak.

[Tony Kornheiser]

At least one.

[Al Michaels]

It's at least one. You got to go three weeks. You know, you got the two weeks between the Derby and the Preakness. You got three weeks until the Belmont. It's a mile and a half race, so. But you know what? In 97, 98 and 99 horses won't the Derby and the Preakness and not

[Tony Kornheiser]

when the Belmont failed in the Belmont.

[Al Michaels]

Yeah, there was a horse named Real Quiet who came to the. Into the Derby and won as a relative long shot wins the Preakness. Now he goes to the Belmont. He had the lead at the 16th pole, only to get overtaken by Victory Gallup. And that he. Real Quiet, this horse would have been a Triple Crown winner back in 1999. And it's so funny because, you know, and I think it was Kent Destromo wrote him, and he took a lot of grief afterwards. But you know what? If you're a mile and a half race, you got the jockey, man, you're at the 16th pole, you got a three or four length lead. You can't wait. You just can't wait to get there. And it cost him.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. So did you get your schedule already for football?

[Al Michaels]

Of course. Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

You got anything that you're. You got anything. That's great. You got anything where you say, wow, I'm excited by this.

[Al Michaels]

Yeah. We got a few games. In fact, the first one that comes to mind, we have Seattle going to Denver.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Oh, okay. That's good, right?

[Al Michaels]

If Nick's. If Nick Said played, you know, against the Patriots, maybe they win that game, they go that. That would have been your super bowl matchup. Then we have New England at Chicago the following week.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's very good.

[Al Michaels]

Very good.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Crazy about that. Yeah.

[Al Michaels]

Well, you know, we know our boy will be. And then later on in the season. How about Chiefs at Rams?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Oh, oh. So, yeah, I mean, the Seahawks won the super bowl last year from that. The toughest division in football. The Rams have obviously gotten better. In your mind, are. Are the Rams the team to beat this year?

[Al Michaels]

Yes, as of right now. Once they got Garrett, no question.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Al Michaels]

You know, again, you never know who gets hurt. You know, Matthew Stafford had an unbelievable year. You know, can he come back to that. That level again next year? I mean, you think he can be, but you just don't know what. It's so amazing because, you know, living out here, I follow the Rams extremely closely. You know, I'm thinking about the fact Sean McVay is 40 years old. He's going into his 10th season.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. He's.

[Al Michaels]

He's been to two Super Bowls. One. One.

[Unidentified Short Interjection]

Yeah.

[Al Michaels]

I mean, you look at the. Look at the people, look at the guys he has turned into head coaches.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Al Michaels]

His tree is like. Like no other tree that I can think of right now. I mean, you think about. With all due respect to a guy like Belichick, Belichick's tree is fairly barren when it comes to guys who've gone on to become head coaches and had success. Sean McVay, it's crazy.

[Tony Kornheiser]

No, he's got five or six. Belichick's got one successful guy, Vrabel, who, you know, was. Was fired at Tennessee and was not that successful, but certainly went to New England and knocked it out. Come on. First year. It's lovely to talk to you. You don't have to ever worry that this is video. We're never video. I'm never video. Never.

[Al Michaels]

I got a big stain on my shirt anyway from lunch, so it's a good thing that, you know, I'm just sitting here in my easy chair. So what is going on, Santa? Tell me. I'm. You know, I miss you.

[Doug Ferguson]

Don't throw.

[Al Michaels]

Don't blow me off. Here it is. There's no. There's no time limit on this thing, right? Unless you're going to bed.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Well, it's almost bedtime for me. It's, you know, a little bit after seven in the East. I'm not staying up, you know, I don't know. I mean, you know, what can I tell you? We're. This is our 25th year in this thing in the PTI show. I mean, you know, that's beyond comprehension, right?

[Sponsor Voice or Announcer]

Who knew?

[Al Michaels]

It's amazing. It's a third of your life. It's a third of your life.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, almost.

[Al Michaels]

Think about that.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. And you watch, which pleases me. And Marv watches, which pleases me. That's our demo. That's our demo. People my age.

[Al Michaels]

It is. I know. No, it's literate television. Literate.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I like the way that sounds.

[Al Michaels]

That's an even smaller demo than our age group.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yes. Literate.

[Al Michaels]

Literate tv.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yes. Literally is smaller. It's smaller.

[Al Michaels]

All right.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So will you be on again every once in a while? If we arrange it to do it in the evening.

[Al Michaels]

How about tomorrow?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Goodbye.

[Al Michaels]

Goodbye. It's good.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I need the.

[Al Michaels]

I need these conduits. I need these outlets, you know, I got things I want to talk about. All right.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay. All right. We're going to have you on again. Thank you, Al.

[Al Michaels]

Thank you, Tony.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Al Michaels, boys and girls, of whom it can be fairly said, he's the best. We will take a break. Doug Ferguson will join us when we return with a preview of the U.S. open at Shinnecock. I'm Tony Kornheiser. You're listening to the Tony Kornheiser Show. Every single day, your business is late to AI, you fall two days behind. Look, the competition is moving insanely fast. And it keeps you wondering how to actually keep up without losing your mind. And that's where NetSuite Next comes in. You probably already know NetSuite as the AI powered business management suite trusted by over 43,000 customers. It unifies your financials, inventory, CRM, and HR into one single source of truth. But NetSuite Next is a massive leap forward because AI is built into everything. It automatically surfaces custom insights throughout your day. And it has AI agents working alongside you to handle routine tasks. Plus, whenever you have a question, you just ask it like a colleague. It's customized for a wide range of industries. So whether your company earns millions or hundreds of millions. NetSuite Next is exactly what you want to use to scale for the first time ever. You can try netsuite Next for free. If your revenues are at least in the seven figures, go to NetSuite AI Tony. Built for every industry, ready for every boardroom. Netsuite AI Tony. You're listening to the Tony Kornheiser show.

[Chris Joseph]

It starts with the first breath once

[Tony Kornheiser]

again, for the second time on the show. In today's show we have Chris Joseph, whose book is called Life is a Ride, and that's about his experience overcoming pancreatic cancer. The first time. This is a song called Life is a Ride and we appreciate having this music. Michael if independent artists like Chris want to get their music played on the show, how do they go about send

[Michael Wilbon]

us your music by emailing it to jingles at Tony Koenizer and it plays in Doug Ferguson.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I've got like a thousand things to talk about, and they include the fact that I read your story yesterday about practice rounds, which I found really interesting. The U.S. open starts in a couple of days. It starts at Shinnecock on Long island in the Hamptons of Long island, and it's been played there a few times. I covered it. I'm pretty sure when Raymond Floyd won it, Boswell and I were covering it for the Washington Post. So I assume if there is sort of a shadow rotation, that Shinnecock is in that shadow rotation.

[Doug Ferguson]

Shadow's a good word. I actually double checked on this, Tony. I thought it might have been one of the anchor sites. They did, but that's only Oakmont, pebble and Pinehurst. Shinnecock, to me is just so revered that you know it's going to be on a rotation, just maybe not the as frequently. Even though it did take when you were there in 86 with Boswell. That was its first open in 90 years. So we're past that part. We're not waiting 90 years anymore.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, good, because I don't have 90 in me. I don't have 90. It's a beautiful course. What do you think of it? You've been there so many times. What do you think of it?

[Doug Ferguson]

It's an A list. I'm not a big greatist, but there's none better in the country, in my opinion. And, and even though you could probably make arguments for places I haven't been, like Band and Dunes or what have you, this to me is the closest you'll see to the old country in terms of just the look of it, the quality of it like we're driving on the outskirts of Shinnecock the other day, trying to get back to a dreaded parking lot and Southampton Golf Club right next to it. My God, you felt like you were at one of those links courses there, Carnoustie. It was just gorgeous. It's the heart. I think it's as hard as anything. More so than Oakmont. But the scary thing if you're the usga is that this, to me, is one course where you have no control. It's always going to be windy because it's perched. It's more exposed than any other US Open course. I can. I can think of even. Even Pemmel.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Even Pebble. Yeah.

[Doug Ferguson]

Yeah. And it's. And it's scary. And when it gets windy and probably the greatest defense you can make the case, Tony, is the Scott. I mean, when the. When the sun beats down and the wind picks up, there's almost nothing you can do. And they're going to try this week to keep it playable because the last two have been. I wouldn't call it a disaster, but something close to it.

[Tony Kornheiser]

This is such a Jimmy Dunn special. I can imagine him walking around the course and everybody asking him about this, that, and the other thing.

[Al Michaels]

Right.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I mean, he's a member there. He's a member at, like, four or five places out on Long island. And he's a wonderful guy. I mean, he's sort of like, you know, the power behind the throne in golf. Is he not at this point.

[Al Michaels]

Yeah.

[Doug Ferguson]

Pro Ameritis, even though he's probably not. He's definitely not the pro here. But, I mean, yeah, this is kind of Jimmy's course.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yes, he's the great Jimmy Dunn.

[Doug Ferguson]

Players love Jimmy Dunn.

[Tony Kornheiser]

All right, so let me get to the practice round, because you wrote a really interesting story about this, that. That the players don't want to practice this week because they don't really have the course to themselves. They're. They're. They're apparently, from what I read, stuck with other players that they don't necessarily want to be stuck with. Right.

[Doug Ferguson]

Sometimes, yeah. Justin Thomas made a pretty interesting point. I was talking to him about a week ago, and he said it's the only time in a practice round we ever try and get a foursome together just so that we know who we're playing with. On the other hand, he said, look, when I was. When I was starting out in 2014 and 15, I would have wanted to play with. With Tiger, Ernie Ells or whatever. So he. So, so he gets it. But it's just the pace I mean, he was talking about. And I saw this more pronounced at the PGA last month and previous Opens where, where guys kind of treat the golf course like, like the tipping areas and the, in the putting green. I mean, they are there forever. Mickelson, when he came to Oakmont, this was back, I think, think in 07 he spent eight hours on the golf course. Not during the week, Tony, but you know, like two weeks leading into the Open. So that he could shift from every single quadrant and putt to every single whole location. Very painstaking. And that's, you know, that's the way to prepare. You can't do that during the week of an Open. It'll shut the course down and it's frankly gets, you know, shut down. Not too bad yesterday, but shut down now. Three and a half hours to get through nine holes.

[Al Michaels]

No fun.

[Doug Ferguson]

And it's draining.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Three and a half hours to do nine holes.

[Doug Ferguson]

Oh, yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Wow. Tell the Tiger story about the clock. Just tell everybody.

[Doug Ferguson]

Oh, that was the best.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, tell us.

[Doug Ferguson]

That was an O2 and it was OH2. Tigers, defending champion comes out of the clubhouse and Steve Williams is waiting for him on the tee box. They've got this old fashioned wooden clock and it says, course opens at 8 o'. Clock. Little hand on the 8th, big hand on the 12th, and Steve reaches over with his finger and he moves it down to 7:30. Tiger shows up about 7:28 and takes the big hand and moves it two more to the left, two more to the right to make it 28. Fires off and there he goes.

[Tony Kornheiser]

It's Tiger, Tiger time.

[Doug Ferguson]

Always Tiger time.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So I read a story, I think in Golf Digest three or four days ago about the sort of wistful story about the fact that neither Tiger nor Phil is going to be anywhere near this Open and that in fact, over the last few months they seem to have each, for different reasons, disappeared. Did you read that? And do you have a. Do you have thoughts on that?

[Doug Ferguson]

I have thoughts on it. I did not read that piece. But you say they're nowhere near the Open. They're nowhere near golf right now.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yes, yes.

[Doug Ferguson]

Not just the Open. I mean, they have just flat disappeared, these aging warriors who have done so many battles together over the last couple decades. And they should be the ones, even if they're not playing, sitting on the porch talking and reminiscing. And it's gone. And it's incredible. Tiger apparently back from Switzerland now or wherever he was getting treatment. And Phil, and you saw the report last week about Getting kicked out of his club in San Diego. It's unfathomable. And Phil's just disappeared with that. With that family health matter. I mean, he showed up in South Africa for a live event, and I'm surprised he went there. And that's been it. Now, he wasn't in the field this week anyway. And I don't think Phil would have asked for an exemption if things were normal. I don't think they would have given him an exemption just based on the. On the. On the annex he displayed last time when he hit the moving ball on the green. Yes, that's a pretty hard. That's a pretty hard ask and give. So he's done. I mean, his. His Open ended last year when his exemption ran out from winning the PGA in 21.

[Tony Kornheiser]

And famously, he's never won the Open. He's come close. He's shot himself in the foot a couple of times in the Open. He's never won that. Tigers wanted a bunch, but I mean, 15. Well, I don't know, 15, 20 years ago. They're not there because of scandalous behavior. Scandalous personal behavior. You, Doug, you never would have predicted that. Nobody would.

[Doug Ferguson]

No injury. You could have made the case for Tiger when he first started having some knee troubles, etc. But not, you know, two DUIs in the sport in the space of. I lose track of time, eight or nine years. And Mickelson, I mean, good heavens, you go back to the scary MFs with the Saudis and really being the chief recruiter of getting guys to join live and the stuff he said and now just completely, really off the rails.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Let me get.

[Doug Ferguson]

I ran into somebody.

[Al Michaels]

Tony.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I can't.

[Doug Ferguson]

I can't tell you who it was, but someone who knows Phil well and said, this guy is just incapable of making the right decision right now. It's like he's lost his mind. So I don't know where he is physically or mentally.

[Tony Kornheiser]

We could. I'm sure you would agree with this. Had everything gone well and normal, Phil Mickelson would be in a booth and be the greatest golf commentator of all time. Right? All time.

[Doug Ferguson]

I don't disagree at all. I mean, Johnny Miller has kind of been on a pedestal in golf broadcasting. I think Mickelson would have surpassed him. He had such a gift for honesty and bluntness and a smoother style than Johnny. And he's really good at it.

[Tony Kornheiser]

He is.

[Doug Ferguson]

And we'll never find out, frankly, if you look at whatever they pay broadcasters these days in the booth and throw in corporate and throw in outings, he might be making just as much, if not more, anyway.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yes. Yes. Yeah. All right, let me move to an injury. Brooks Koepka, a guy with five majors. Now, you got to know golf to know that he's got the most majors or tied for the most.

[Doug Ferguson]

Right.

[Tony Kornheiser]

For the. Of anybody currently active on the Tour by one.

[Doug Ferguson]

But he was there.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Oh, Rory's got six. Yeah, okay.

[Doug Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

All right. But. So I'll just make the case. United States citizen. He's got more than anybody else, but he's got five. And he's also got a bad wrist. What is going on there?

[Doug Ferguson]

Haven't seen him today. That was pretty alarming on Saturday, especially when he talked about not being able to fill the club with his ring and his pinky finger. That speaks of nerve to me, not being a doctor. I suspect it's somewhere in the forearm area. That's what they were tinkering with to pull out of Canada on Sunday, presumably to just get a control of this thing and be ready to play this week. But that can't be a good sign. I wouldn't say Brooks was trending necessarily. It had a couple decent finishes, but hadn't really sniffed it this year. But this was going to be a big week for him, and I think he'll tee off. We'll find out. But I think the next few days are big, but he can't be looked at as he would have been without this injury.

[Tony Kornheiser]

You were at the Canadian Open.

[Doug Ferguson]

Yes, I was not.

[Tony Kornheiser]

You were not. But, you know, everything that happened. Can you tell us a little bit about Bud Cawley, whose story seems to be. Charming is the wrong word because it is more eventful than that, but it is certainly a wonderful thing that he won. Right?

[Doug Ferguson]

It really is. And this guy, I don't know if you go way back. I mean, he was. He was turning pro out of high school. He was really small. I mean, he's kind of big for his size now in terms of his strength, but he was a little wimpy little kid in high school and got his tour card without having to go to Q school. So he was a prodigious talent. And then gets into that horrific accident in Ohio right in the car with a hockey player. Justin Thomas went to school with him in Alabama and was devastated. I mean, he was lucky to be alive and worked his way back together. Had a great year last year. And I say great because he didn't have a ton of status and he still made it to the BMW Championship and was one good round Away from getting to the Tour Championship, getting in all the majors and all that stuff. And so to carry forward, yeah, that was really impressive. First win gets to the Masters for the first time. All that stuff. It was nice to see. But go back to when he was 17, 18. This was like. There's a 17 year old in the field this week named Miles Russell, who everyone's raving about. That was Bud Cauley 10, 15, 20 years ago. I lose track of time.

[Tony Kornheiser]

He was better. Like he was the number one recruit at Alabama over Justin Thomas, right?

[Doug Ferguson]

Oh, yeah, yeah, he was. Bud was big time. He must have been there. I guess he was there for a year because they were teammates together. But I remember him going through it at Sea island, last tournament of the year, and he. He gets his card. Parents know nothing about golf. He was just a kid who was kind of shy and just picked up golf because a lot of shy kids do, because you can go out and do it on your own and got really good at it.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, I'm not going to project that he's going to win the US Open. But last year, JJ Spawn won the US Open and nobody saw that coming. And earlier this year, Aaron Rai won the pga and nobody saw that coming either. Do you have any thoughts as to what kind of. What kind of player will win this thing?

[Doug Ferguson]

Someone who's got a lot of patience and someone who's really good with his wedge around the green would be my guess. Someone who's tough. I mean, just tough enough to win here. Goosen is a tough player. He's a tough customer. Koepka is as tough as they come. Corey Paven, the little bulldog, the little gritty bulldog from ucla. Tough player. And Raymond Floyd is as tough as they get. I think if that's. I mean, we can talk about golf shots and abilities and things you got to do this week, but to me, that's what. That's what really, really stands out is just, you got to be tough. I don't, by the way, know nothing about James palace in 1896. Yeah, I'm sure he was tough, too.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Now, that would be my guess, but it's a boy, oh boy. It is such a. It's such a beautiful course. And if you get lost, there's one on the left side, one on the right side. There's courses all facing the ocean. There's a million of them. Thanks so much.

[Doug Ferguson]

Only people talked about. I always read Digest and things like that about all the US Opens got this New York bias. And when I start getting out here, I'm like, well, yeah, why wouldn't you be here as often as you can?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, it's the best. It's truly beautiful. Truly beautiful. Thank you, Doug. Enjoy yourself.

[Doug Ferguson]

Thanks, Tony.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Doug Ferguson of the Associated Press. Good to have him on. We will take a break. We will have email and jingle when we return. I'm Tony Kornheiser. You're listening to the Tony Kornheiser Show. This is sent to us by Mike Tam in Weaverville, California. And he said, as you said about baseball, it doesn't matter to me what the language is. The mailbox theme Is the mailbox theme. Yeah. I know how to listen to the theme. So here you go. My AI creation, since I have no musical ability, of the mailbox theme for you. Technology is scary. Mike Tam writes. It's coming for all of us. That's. How did he do that? How does mailbox.

[Doug Ferguson]

Brilliant.

[Tony Kornheiser]

How does that happen?

[Al Michaels]

Yeah.

[Guest or Producer (possibly Nigel)]

I don't know. I just should type in, sing a Spanish, you know, mariachi version of the Tony Cornhouse's mailbag theme.

[Sponsor Voice]

Wow.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Wow. You want to do the Bethesda bagel?

[Guest or Producer (possibly Nigel)]

Yes, Bethesda bagels. We love them. You will as well. Just go to bethesdabeagels.com for the location in the DC area nearest you. Then pop on in and you'll be thrilled.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Before we get to the mailbag, let me just say once upon a time you dressed so fine through the bums of dime in your prime. Didn't you? People call and say beware, doll, you're bound to fall. You thought they were all kidding you. You used to laugh about everybody that was hanging out now you don't talk so loud now you don't seem so proud about having to be scrounging your next meal. Well, how does it feel? How does it feel to be without a home? Like a complete unknown? Like a rolling stone? That was recorded on this date 61 years ago.

[Unidentified Short Interjection]

Wow.

[Tony Kornheiser]

By Robert Zimmerman of Hibbing, Minnesota, who's now 80.

[Guest or Producer (possibly Nigel)]

85, actually.

[Tony Kornheiser]

85 years old.

[Guest or Producer (possibly Nigel)]

Yeah. But wrote some words.

[Tony Kornheiser]

And still playing.

[Guest or Producer (possibly Nigel)]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

And singing.

[Guest or Producer (possibly Nigel)]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

And happy.

[Guest or Producer (possibly Nigel)]

Wrote some words about what it means to turn 80. Everyone should look that up because it's really Bob Dylan.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Kids.

[Guest or Producer (possibly Nigel)]

Yes.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Thanks to our guest today, Al Michaels. Doug Ferguson. Thanks as well to today's sponsors. Remember, you can listen to us on Apple podcasts, Spotify and Odyssey. Get show through Apple podcasts. Please leave us a review now. This is how stupid I am. Nigel handed me this to introduce Doug Ferguson with this email. This is an Email from Tim Rush. Okay. And it says, driving across the beautiful city. And this is from Nairobi in Kenya. Driving across the beautiful city of Nairobi tonight, I started getting excited to close my day with your podcast as well as PTIs. I know who won the Knicks spurs game four, and I know that South Africa received three red cards in the first match against the World cup, but I don't know how to feel about those things until I hear you and Will Bonds take on all the action of. I can't wait to smirk, laugh and. Or be otherwise indifferent. Thank you, Michael and Nigel, for providing moments of joy throughout our weeks. I'm sure you already have an official pastor on the show, but how about a quintessential pastor? Yes, he is equipping minister at the Church of Christ in Tulsa, Oklahoma.

[Guest or Producer (possibly Nigel)]

Yes.

[Tony Kornheiser]

He's in Nairobi right now for this letter.

[Guest or Producer (possibly Nigel)]

Yes.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Every time you introduce Bob Ryan, I think that has to be the best introduction anyone could ask for. P.S. this is the important. Please tell Doug Ferguson to eat it. Yes, that Doug Ferguson. Nigel, bring everybody up to date on what happened. And I forgot to say this when we were talking to Doug.

[Guest or Producer (possibly Nigel)]

So I texted Doug, I said, do you know this bloke, Tim Rush, minister in Oklahoma? He said yes. His dad was the pulpit minister at a church they attended in Tulsa for six years. Tim was probably in high school back then, and it would scare Doug to wonder how old he is now. Small world.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's great. Yes. Okay. From Patrick McDermott in Mount Vernon, New York. I hope this message finds you and the gang well. With Father's Day approaching, I'm writing to ask if you could please give my father and loyal little Matthew a shout out on the show. Sure.

[Guest or Producer (possibly Nigel)]

There you go.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Sure. We're not, you know, we're not doing this for everybody, but he's a loyal little, you know, and that's fine. He's from Wilmington, Delaware, you know, and this is fine. It's fine. Happy to do it. Happy to do it. From Josh Katenbrink in Nokesville, Virginia. Dear Tony and Michael, I lost my father on the day after Father's Day, 24 years ago at much too young an age for both he and I. I'm now older than my father ever lived to be. And at some point in the next year, I have no desire to discover the actual date. I will cross the barrier where I will have spent more of my life without my father than I did with him. Listening to you and Michael speak about your relationship always stirs both happiness and sadness in me. I'm jealous of the time you get to spend together, but I also enjoy hearing a genuinely positive father son relationship relationship. Your wonderful heartfelt telling of the Father son tournament this past weekend, so close to the holiday I dread each year, really touched my heart and spurred me to write. My father barely met my children, never got to enjoy his great grandchildren. I know each and every time I missed him so much it brought me to tears, including as I write this email. Whether this is read on the air is irrelevant. I just hope you are able to read this and appreciate what you Michael, Bootsy, the Captain and the Hammer share each and every time you were able to see, hug and say I love you to each other. You're very fortunate to say the least. That is lovely, beautiful and I believe it speaks for thousands of people who are listening to this show and we

[Michael Wilbon]

don't forget how lucky we are.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, me too. Me too. Howard Turoff in New Orleans Kristen Winfield, NBA Reporter for the New York Daily News today expressed what many Knicks fans feel right now that this Knicks team is the best team in Knicks history and the Jalen Brunson is perhaps the greatest player ever to wear orange and blue. I sincerely hope you and Wilbon will call this exactly what it is. Hocus pocus junk. Youngsters who weren't born 53 years ago and would think the world didn't exist before they were born need to read a book or watch a film and learn about Clyde and Earl of Pearl and the Captain. That was a collection of the greatest players ever to wear orange and blue. That's it. That's the list. Couldn't agree more from Chuck Spataro, who's a Villanova alumni, who says he was cut by Coach Raleigh three straight years, tried to walk on, got cut by Massimina, says Dear Mr. Tony, yes, nice New York Knick win, but in terms of this crazy NCAA college hoop world, sadly the Knicks roster is more Villanovan than the new college over roster is. Yeah, so there you go. A haiku from Shad for the soccer poets. So damn beautiful. Leonardo, Raphael, Titian and Jesus Webb. Yeah, I mean, please stop Steve the Sycophant Dr. Grandpa Satchmo, goat Captain Potato, my legion idol. It was great to hear you talk with Spike Braun, but somewhat unnerving for old timers like me who remember Spike making NCAA basketball tournament picks before his voice changed. Time doesn't just fly, it's supersonic. From Andrew Bracewell in Vancouver, British Columbia in Canada. Please tell Spike if he's coming back to Vancouver and wants to Play golf. I'll have him out as a guest at my club. I'll be at the Canada versus Qatar game Thursday. He probably doesn't want to hang with a couple of 40 year olds, but I can let him know the best spots for cheap eats and good beers. There you go. Yeah. Mark Hughes, who was our. You know, turned us on to the music today. Yes. From Ashton, Maryland. Dear farmer Ron, on my way back from the beach on Sunday, I stopped at the McDonald's in Denton and ordered some French fries. Just curious, were these spuds sourced from your potato farm? They were delicious.

[Guest or Producer (possibly Nigel)]

Not yet.

[Tony Kornheiser]

From Mike Corey in Rochester Hills, who's giving me the TK salute in a picture. What a great time Sunday night in Ann Arbor at the Dan Byrne Show. I embarrassed my wife by hollering out lecheeserie early in the show. I then explained that it was actually a good thing when Dan gave me the TK salute. Dan is even more talented than I had expected. On the way to the show, I tried to explain to my wife, definitely not a little about Dan. I used the Shohei Ohtani ballad as an example of his talent. So I was thrilled that he closed his encore with that song. I had a chance to speak with him briefly after the show. He's incredibly gracious with his time. They sent a picture of it.

[Guest or Producer (possibly Nigel)]

He's wonderful.

[Tony Kornheiser]

The love of Dan Byrne is, is wonderful. Yes, it really is. From Adam Haynes. What do you mean Bootsy is nine? Well, he's going to be gonna be nine, you know. Yeah. There's a travesty. He was only born like the other day. God, I feel so old. Michael, you've been a wonderful father. Tony, you're getting to be good as a grandfather. No, I'm not.

[Doug Ferguson]

I'm not.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I just go over there, I pat them on the heads and then I just eat, I leave. That's all I do. I mean, it's like, no, I'm not good at it. From Mark lynch in Camby, Indiana. Wilbon is right. One third of Midwesterners from Toronto, Ontario to Tucumcari, New Mexico are left handed.

[Al Michaels]

It just.

[Tony Kornheiser]

If you're out on your bike, Wilbond, if you're out on your bike tonight, as always, do wear white. You wanna talk real customers?

[Doug Ferguson]

Kid, that's me. I'm like the mayor of Duncan.

[Al Michaels]

I go from.

[Chris Joseph]

We carry old wounds Scars that still last. Pain never leaves so how do we move fast? Raise your glass to the lows and highs Sometimes all you can do is laugh or cry Sometimes all you can do is laugh and cry. Cause life can be such a pain in the ass. Ooh life can be such a pain in the ass. Even so you wanna make it last. Life, life can be such a pain in the ass. Dealing with stuff you dealt with before. Ten years ago Though it seems like more. It's not fun but what you gonna do? One foot in front the other and you know it's true. One foot in front the other and you know it's true that life can be such a pain in the ass. Life can be such a pain in the ass. Even so you want to make it last. Life can be such a beautiful pain in the ass. Trying to untangle what's happening in my heart, in my head because all of a sudden life's uncertain again. And the people will walking alongside of me deserve my honesty. So I have to say honestly

[Doug Ferguson]

I

[Chris Joseph]

have to say honestly that life can be such a pain in the ass. Oh life can be such a pain in the ass. Even so you wanna make it last. Oh life can be such a pain in the ass. Life can be such a pain in the ass. Oh life can be such a pain in the ass. Still it seems to go by how far fast. Oh life can be such a pain in the ass. It starts with the first breath, then with a cry. It ends with a last breath on the day you die.

[Unidentified Short Interjection]

And in between Life is a ride. Life is alright. Life is alright. Life is alright. Life is alright. Life is right. It's confusing, mysterious, sometimes not fair. Most of the time we're not in charge of what's here and what's there. And in between Life is arrive. Life is arrive. Life is arrive. Life is arrive. Life is arrive. Life is arrive. Sometimes it goes too high and sometimes way too fast. You hold on with all your might and wonder how long it might last. Cuz after all life is a ride. Life is alright. Life is alright. Life is alright. Life is alive. Life is harassed. No idea what the next turn will bring. They're all strapped in but it don't change a thing. Cuz after all Life is a ride. Life is a ride. Life is a ride. Life is a ride. With its reeling feel mixed up inside. And after time you're just terrified. Door is open just so wide. And if you don't slip through. You will be denied all the things that were on your side.