“The Cherry Conundrum”

Summary

Podcast Summary: "The Cherry Conundrum" – The Tony Kornheiser Show Release Date: June 11, 2025

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Introduction

In the episode titled “The Cherry Conundrum,” Tony Kornheiser delves into a variety of topics ranging from a preview of the US Open Golf Tournament and the NBA Finals to a humorous yet insightful discussion about promotional tactics in retail. Featuring guests Doug Ferguson and Brian Windhorst, the show offers a blend of sports analysis, personal anecdotes, and engaging banter that caters to both avid listeners and newcomers alike.

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US Open Golf Preview with Doug Ferguson

The episode kicks off with Tony Kornheiser and Doug Ferguson discussing the upcoming US Open at the iconic Oakmont Country Club. The conversation centers on the challenging nature of the course and the players expected to shine.

Key Points:

• Tony’s Golfing Experience: Tony shares his own golfing experiences, highlighting his struggles and humorous interactions on the course.

  Notable Quote:

  Tony Kornheiser [01:14]: “When I play with three people that good, I'm Jankopotamus all over the place. I stink.”

• Oakmont’s Reputation: Doug and Tony dissect why Oakmont is revered by the USGA, emphasizing its history of testing even the most skilled golfers.

  Notable Quote:

  Doug Ferguson [21:43]: “They understand it. And so it's hard and it's suffering and there's very few complaints, usually.”

• Tournament Expectations: The duo speculates on potential scores and standout players, considering factors like course setup and player profiles.

  Notable Quote:

  Doug Ferguson [32:32]: “Scores have been coming down over decades because that's what sports does.”

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The Safeway Cherry Pricing Dilemma

Transitioning from golf, Tony shares a personal anecdote about attempting to purchase cherries at a discounted price from Safeway, which required the use of the store’s mobile app. This leads to a broader discussion on the implications of app-based promotions and their accessibility.

Key Points:

• Tony’s Experience: Tony recounts arriving at Safeway for cherries advertised at $2.99 per pound, only to discover that the deal was contingent upon using the Safeway app.

  Notable Quote:

  Tony Kornheiser [09:06]: “So I think they have two or three potatoes that Chris is going to plant now, Michael, do you. I don't remember how we're supposed to do this.”

• Discussion on Digital Discounts: The conversation explores whether requiring an app for discounts constitutes unfairness or exclusion, especially for those uncomfortable with technology.

  Notable Quote:

  Tony Kornheiser [14:25]: “I felt that because I shopped in the store and there was a sign that said Cherry's 299, that I should get that price. Yeah, that’s. I feel that's fair.”

• Broader Implications: Guests debate the move towards digital-exclusive deals and its impact on consumer behavior and store loyalty.

  Notable Quote:

  Doug Ferguson [12:23]: “It's open to all. If they can do. I can't do it. Right.”

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In-Depth Analysis with Brian Windhorst

Joining later in the episode, Brian Windhorst provides expert insights into both the US Open and the NBA Finals, offering listeners a nuanced perspective on these high-profile sporting events.

Key Points:

• US Open Strategies: Brian discusses the strategic elements of playing at Oakmont, including course layout, player strengths, and historical performances.

  Notable Quote:

  Brian Windhorst [37:31]: “I think Johnny Miller reaches the top of the mountain and he says, now what?”

• Basketball Insights: The conversation shifts to the NBA Finals, focusing on the dynamics between the Indiana Pacers and the Oklahoma City Thunder. Brian analyzes coaching strategies, player performances, and potential outcomes.

  Notable Quote:

  Brian Windhorst [42:24]: “It does happen. It is unusual. And so the, the process of formally requesting permission is a bit of a prickly one.”

• Coaching Movements: Brian elaborates on the complexities of coaching transitions in the NBA, citing historical examples to illustrate how "gray areas" can lead to unexpected changes.

  Notable Quote:

  Brian Windhorst [44:13]: “This also happened famously with Doc Rivers. He was the coach of the Celtics, won a championship there. They were about to launch a rebuild.”

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Fan Mail and Personal Anecdotes

Tony engages with listener emails, unveiling a tapestry of fan stories that range from nostalgic memories to humorous incidents, thereby fostering a sense of community and shared experiences.

Key Points:

• Personal Stories: Listeners share their own adventures and connections to Tony, including anecdotes from sports events and personal milestones.

  Notable Quote:

  Tony Kornheiser [55:18]: “I would imagine the people who go out in the morning to set up the course, they find about 300 balls every day, right?”

• Humorous Tales: Tony reminisces about past events, blending humor with heartfelt appreciation for his audience's support.

  Notable Quote:

  Tony Kornheiser [61:44]: “Having prompted his own progress, and the moment I powered up the pod, there it was, the great Richard Justice, saying very nice things about me.”

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Conclusion

“The Cherry Conundrum” is a testament to Tony Kornheiser’s ability to weave together diverse topics into a coherent and entertaining narrative. From the greens of Oakmont to the aisles of Safeway, and from the grandeur of the US Open to the intensity of the NBA Finals, the episode offers listeners a rich blend of sports analysis, personal stories, and thoughtful discussions on modern consumer practices. Notable quotes sprinkled throughout the conversation add depth and relatability, making the episode both informative and engaging for a broad audience.

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Notable Quotes Overview:

• Tony Kornheiser [01:14]: “When I play with three people that good, I'm Jankopotamus all over the place. I stink.”
• Doug Ferguson [21:43]: “They understand it. And so it's hard and it's suffering and there's very few complaints, usually.”
• Tony Kornheiser [09:06]: “So I think they have two or three potatoes that Chris is going to plant now, Michael, do you. I don't remember how we're supposed to do this.”
• Tony Kornheiser [14:25]: “I felt that because I shopped in the store and there was a sign that said Cherry's 299, that I should get that price. Yeah, that’s. I feel that's fair.”
• Doug Ferguson [12:23]: “It's open to all. If they can do. I can't do it. Right.”
• Brian Windhorst [37:31]: “I think Johnny Miller reaches the top of the mountain and he says, now what?”
• Brian Windhorst [42:24]: “It does happen. It is unusual. And so the, the process of formally requesting permission is a bit of a prickly one.”
• Brian Windhorst [44:13]: “This also happened famously with Doc Rivers. He was the coach of the Celtics, won a championship there. They were about to launch a rebuild.”
• Tony Kornheiser [55:18]: “I would imagine the people who go out in the morning to set up the course, they find about 300 balls every day, right?”
• Tony Kornheiser [61:44]: “Having prompted his own progress, and the moment I powered up the pod, there it was, the great Richard Justice, saying very nice things about me.”

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This comprehensive summary encapsulates the essence of “The Cherry Conundrum” episode, highlighting the key discussions, engaging stories, and memorable quotes that define the show’s dynamic and insightful nature.

Transcript

[Tony Kornheiser]

Hey, it's Tony. On today's show, we'll preview the US Open with Doug Ferguson. We'll talk about the NBA Finals with Brian Windhorst. But first, let's keep the wheels of commerce moving.

[Amazon Prime]

This episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime. From streaming to shopping, prime helps you get more out of your passions. So whether you're a fan of true crime or prefer a nail biting novel from time to time, with services like Prime Video, Amazon Music and fast free delivery, prime makes it easy to get more out of whatever you're into or getting into. Visit Amazon.comprime to learn more.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Now more than ever, Lowes knows you don't just want a low price, you want the lowest price. And with our lowest price guarantee, you can count on us for competitive prices on all your home improvement projects. If you find a qualifying lower price somewhere else on the same item, we'll match it.

[Chris Cullen]

Lowes we help you save price Match.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Applies the same item current price at qualifying retailers. Exclusions and terms apply. Learn how we'll match [e-mail] lowest price guarantee.

[Chris Cullen]

Previously on the Tony Kornheiser Show.

[Tony Kornheiser]

When I play with three people that good, I'm Jankopotamus all over the place. I stink.

[Doug Ferguson]

Do you get extra anxious because they are smooth club players?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yes, yes. And I like them too. And I don't want to hold them up. I don't want to make their experience bad because I'm a hack, or chop as I've been called by pros. A chop. Chop.

[Doug Ferguson]

He called you a chop.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Lee Jansen said there's this chop.

[Doug Ferguson]

Oh, he's at 18.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, chop next to me, he's like a 16. I went, whoa, that's good. I was an 18.

[Chris Cullen]

This is General George Washington and you're listening to the Tony Kornheiser Show.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's true story. He walked off the range. That was at Avenue, right at Aveno. He walked off the range.

[Doug Ferguson]

Reminds me of the scene from Tin Cup.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, I mean, I was bothering him. I was so bad. He was afraid I would hit him. He was somewhere to my right. I didn't know and I found out then the guy who ran the club told me the story afterwards. Now, I've never talked to Jansen about it because I don't know that I've ever met Jansen. Speaking of golf. And I played yesterday morning. I was in a group that went out first. There was Robin, Buffalo, Mike Monahan, Jim Griffin and myself. And we went out early and we played really fast. You know that we Are four of the faster, if not fastest players at Columbia.

[Doug Ferguson]

No restrictions.

[Tony Kornheiser]

No restrictions.

[Doug Ferguson]

It's the best email you get every day.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. And. And I was in my own cart because I didn't know that I could finish. And sometimes I leave after 15 because I don't think I can finish.

[Doug Ferguson]

Trust me. I remember Memorial Day.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. We played in under three hours.

[Doug Ferguson]

It's the dream.

[Tony Kornheiser]

It was just fantastic. Under three hours and I played fine. I mean, I played. There are four par threes at Columbia and two par fives. I was, I pard one of the par threes, number 13, but I was, I had fives on the other three, so I was six over on the par threes. I was four over on the par fives. And other than that, because I shot 90 or so. Other than that, I played very well. I was having like comfortable bogeys on par fives, which made me happy.

[Doug Ferguson]

It's a good round for you.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, no, it is.

[Doug Ferguson]

You're 21.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. I was really happy. I mean, and we were done early. I took a shower. I could get on the call at 11 o' clock. It was a good day. Made me very happy. But that's, that's not the big news here. Although I could make it into the big news.

[Doug Ferguson]

You didn't have to say to anyone in front of you, do you mind playing a little faster?

[Tony Kornheiser]

No, I didn't. So like I did with, with Neville at Falls Road and the guy says, well, you know, you were mean about it. I said, I just wanted to be emphatic about it. What I really want to do is hit him in the head with a six or something like that. Anyway. Anyway.

[Doug Ferguson]

Try the same.

[Tony Kornheiser]

This is a very big day for our intern, Chris Cullen.

[Michael]

Yes.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Because he gets to plant potatoes today. And I will say that. Well, let's ask. Are you excited? I'm so excited.

[Chris Cullen]

I didn't think I could ever be this excited about potatoes.

[Doug Ferguson]

You've dressed for the occasion.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Oh, yeah. Yeah. You're not, you're not wearing anything particularly nice. And are you, are you doing a stand up tonight somewhere? Saturday night? Saturday. Where, where are you gonna perform? It's at Solly's in downtown D.C. starts.

[Chris Cullen]

At 8, I think.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Have you ever done that before at Solly's? I've done it once before at Solly's. Okay, so you're excited about that. Do you, do you think you would talk about the potatoes? Can you work that into a routine? I can definitely think of something. Yeah. I mean, I will, I will say that the potatoes we have already planted. We have planted them in a very specific area of the front yard.

[Michael]

Do we have evidence of growth?

[Tony Kornheiser]

We have things coming up out of the ground, leafy things coming up out of the ground, which I assume. Weeds.

[Doug Ferguson]

You're talking about weeds.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Oh, you don't think it's the potatoes?

[Doug Ferguson]

It's got to be the potatoes.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's what I think. I think it's leafy things that are the potatoes that indicate that underneath the ground something is active. If not a volcano, maybe a potato. So we have two or three potatoes that Chris is going to plant now, Michael, do you. I don't remember how we're supposed to do this. We. We cut out some part of the potato with the eye. Right. And plant.

[Doug Ferguson]

And the eye has started to sprout.

[Tony Kornheiser]

We have that. We have two or three eyes that have started to sprout.

[Doug Ferguson]

Yeah. I think the big thing is you have to plant it so that the eye is facing up.

[Tony Kornheiser]

The eye is north. Yes, It's. Yeah. I missed the moon last night. Oh, the strawberry moon. Did you see it?

[Michael]

I did it.

[Tony Kornheiser]

It was hazy here.

[Michael]

Yeah. I did not see it.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I didn't see it. Did you see it?

[Doug Ferguson]

No. Again, this is the time of year where we have to trick the kids into getting into bed while the sun is still out.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Right, Right. Did you see it?

[Chris Cullen]

I did not.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I didn't know there was a strawberry moon. And a strawberry moon apparently is the lowest rising full moon in terms of its relationship with the horizon. It is the lowest rising full moon of the. All of these full moons.

[Doug Ferguson]

Normally, you're on top of this. I'm a little disappointed.

[Michael]

What happened?

[Doug Ferguson]

You'd be on top of the moon. You know, the cycles.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I know. So I missed it. But, you know, there are wolf moons and there are harvest moons. There's all of these sorts of moons. All of these sorts of moons. Whereas other things don't get names. Moons. The full moons seem to. They seem to all get names.

[Michael]

They have a great marketing department. The moon.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Let's know what they're doing.

[Michael]

By the way, you mentioned volcano just as a reference here. Did you happen to see the eruption at Aetna last week?

[Tony Kornheiser]

No. I mean, I saw some. Yeah. I saw something with. It appeared to me that the sky was totally blue and then there were these smoky things coming up out of a mountain.

[Michael]

Well, apparently it's something that tourists go to hike. And as it was erupting, all you see is tourists just scrambling.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Should.

[Michael]

Yes. It's like Vesuvius all It's like, no, get away from the volcano. But apparently everyone was okay. But, yeah, it was a very.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's not. So.

[Doug Ferguson]

I'm sure some people try and chase us to hike it, right?

[Michael]

Oh, yeah. Oh, I'm sure there are.

[Tony Kornheiser]

When the volcano erupts. Yeah. And you're there, you. You don't really have a chance. I mean, you're going to be showered with. This is different than. And this was a story I heard when Neville and I were playing last week at Falls Road and we were playing with Scott and Alexis. Yeah.

[Doug Ferguson]

You apparently had a lot of time to talk.

[Tony Kornheiser]

We did have a lot of time to talk. And they were telling the story. They got married in South Africa and went to a. What do they call those things? Safari.

[Michael]

Oh, sure.

[Tony Kornheiser]

They went on a safari. They were out there one day, not on the real safari with a guide who was a little bit nervous because they were not under the full protection of the way tourists are in safaris. And the guide said, look, just stick with me. If I give you this sign, just stay still. Just stay still, because we could be in some trouble. They were out alone.

[Chris Cullen]

Right.

[Tony Kornheiser]

And at one point, as the story was conveyed to us, this particular guide started. His knees started knocking, and he made this. This gesture to stay still because there was a lioness with cubs within visual proximity. Now the lioness is going to kill you.

[Michael]

Oh, yes.

[Tony Kornheiser]

She's going to protect her offspring at that point. Yeah. And Scott said to Alexis, you only have to beat that woman. Just be faster than that woman. You'll be okay. That's it. You'll be.

[Doug Ferguson]

Tighten the laces.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. I just thought that was a great little story that I heard. I don't know that. You know that. They know that. That I do this talking about. I don't know that. So I had one. One story that I wanted to talk about. And this has happened in safe way to me. And I don't. I don't know that I told this fully to Michael, but I did at one point say to Michael, can you help me get an app on the phone? I went to Safeway last. Today is Wednesday.

[Michael]

That's right.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Sunday. I went to Safeway, and as I walked in, I wanted to buy cherries. I buy cherries in June, July and August when cherry season is on. I like cherries. I like to stand over the garbage can and eat them and spit the pits into the garden.

[Doug Ferguson]

Start of summer.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's what I like to do. So cherries were advertised as $2.99 a pound.

[Doug Ferguson]

That's a great price.

[Michael]

Is that a good deal?

[Tony Kornheiser]

It's great. It's. It's great. They're usually 4.99 to 5.99.

[Doug Ferguson]

More than that.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Usually, you know, $2.99 a pound. So I got. I didn't load up. I got one of the bags of cherries that they put in the clear plastic. And I don't know how much they weigh, but I'm sure it's more than a pound. And I go to the one checkout lane because everything else is self checkout, which I hate. Yeah. And it did say. It said 299 with a digital coupon, but it said 299. They're advertised 299. So I figure I have two pounds of cherries, two and a half pounds, three pounds. I don't know. I don't weigh them. I want the bag of cherries.

[Doug Ferguson]

Yeah, but you're expecting under $10.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I'm expecting seven, eight dollars. Yeah, something like that. Seven, eight dollars. Because I don't think I have three full pounds of cherries. But I don't know. And it's like 1399. I go, Whoa, whoa, whoa, hold on a second. Wait. These are 299 a pound. I mean, if I'm at 1399, I've got five. I don't have five pounds of cherries here. And they said, well, you'll have to talk to customer service. So I go to customer service, or where they say customer service. It's. I'm in for the long haul. Oh, yes, sure.

[Michael]

Now.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Because there are people here now. Yeah. I'm going to stay two hours. If I'm not going to. I'm going to stay. And then some guy eventually comes over who's a store manager. He looks like the store manager. And I say, attention must be paid. Yeah. I say, hey, you know, you advertise this to 99. He says, well, no, that's only if you have the Safeway app. I go, what do you. What do you mean? It's 299 only with the Safeway app. Now I'm going to give it to you this time. And he literally gave me back $5. Literally gave me back $5. Wait it out and all of that. But he said, you have to get the Safeway app. And I said, well, I don't know how to do that. And they said, well, you just, you know, go in and you put your passcode. I don't know my passcode. I don't know my Password? Yeah, I don't know any of that junk. I mean, I didn't say junk. I just said, I don't. I'm incapable. Look at me, I'm incapable of doing what you're asking for. I can't do it. Can you do it? And he said, well, I don't know your passcode. And I said, well, neither do I, you know, And I said, well, I could get my son to do it. I thought, get my son to do it. But. But I'm. I'm now dealing with the fairness issue here. What do you mean that only certain types of people qualify for this discount? I don't, I don't know that that's fair. Well, I mean, if you advertise cherries for 299 and say, oh, but not you, because you, for whatever reason, you're too tall and you're too fat, you don't have the app.

[Doug Ferguson]

Why is the app free?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Doug Ferguson]

Okay, then I think, then it is open to all. This is in the same category.

[Tony Kornheiser]

It's open to all. If they can do. I can't do it. Right.

[Doug Ferguson]

This is in the same category as cash or credit. When you're paying gas like you can, you can pay with your card because there's a convenience for it, but you will go out of your way to, to pay the cash because it's going to be a cheaper offer.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Right. So you don't think this is discriminatory?

[Doug Ferguson]

What I struggle with is this is different from the member price. So Safeway, I believe, is part of the Albertsons family member.

[Tony Kornheiser]

There's always the member in for that. And I got a slight discount, but I didn't get the 299. Yeah, I mean, I typed my phone number in. Like what you saw this additional thing?

[Doug Ferguson]

An additional one.

[Tony Kornheiser]

It's a fabulous price.299 for a pound of cherries is fabulous. Try getting that in, you know, November, because you can't. So no cherries.

[Chris Cullen]

Right?

[Michael]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Michael]

I should think that just the basic membership should take care of that.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I guess they're just trying to get me the app.

[Doug Ferguson]

I can get to the app. The question is, when you get the app and you start getting all the promotions and emails, is that going to be worth it for you to save the extra dollar off of the member price?

[Tony Kornheiser]

I'm only going to get those things if I go to the app.

[Doug Ferguson]

Oh, this. I'm sure there's going to be someone that gets sent to your emails.

[Michael]

You get Safeway emails. Oh, check out this great deal.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I Don't want that.

[Michael]

And I guarantee what this is all about is upper management was like, look, we're lagging on membership for this app, so we've got to compel people to do it. So this is.

[Doug Ferguson]

Now, if you shop, you know, if you plan out your shopping, you can get great deals on wine from the Safeway. If you go to a Safeway.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Doug Ferguson]

This Safeway in Virginia that sells beer and wine.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Beer and wine.

[Doug Ferguson]

My favorite part of this is I have. I have friends who have, out in the wild, seen you operating in this way at this exact Safeway, and they've been afraid to approach because you were in heated conversation.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I was fine. I didn't. I didn't say anything bad. I just said, look. He said, 299. And then you're charging me like, 15 bucks. What. What went on here? And he said again, he said, I'll give it to you this one time. Yeah.

[Doug Ferguson]

My bigger issue is that they make it seem like that's the normal member price because anyone can. You can add your phone number and immediately get the discount. And if you're not getting that, you know, it's probably.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I didn't get the full discount with my phone number.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

The way that I had shopped at Safeway for 50 years failed me. And I was upset. I was upset at this, and I felt it was discriminatory.

[Doug Ferguson]

I'm upset for you.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. I mean, because I don't have this app. And they said, well, anybody can get the app. Well, I. I don't know my codes. I have some too many codes. I don't want any codes. Like, I've reached that point where I don't want.

[Chris Cullen]

Right.

[Doug Ferguson]

So 20 years ago, this would be like you're checking out to buy a pair of pants. And do you want to open up a store credit card? It'll get you 15% off. Right now, I don't want to deal with that because the. The off chance that I forget about this card. And what does that do for opening up or closing another card for your, you know, your credit line?

[Tony Kornheiser]

So I tried to put in my own app, but I don't know if I succeeded. I don't know.

[Michael]

Now I'm just envisioning you and the store manager, this sort of confrontation, like Gary talking to a rep about a questionable.

[Doug Ferguson]

Weigh them again.

[Tony Kornheiser]

No, it wasn't. No, it wasn't. It wasn't that at all.

[Doug Ferguson]

Hit that tear button.

[Tony Kornheiser]

It wasn't that at all. But I, you know, but I felt that. I felt that because I shopped in the store and there was a sign that said Cherry's 299, that I should get that price. Yeah, that's. I feel that's fair.

[Michael]

And ultimately you did get that deal.

[Tony Kornheiser]

It's just. I might have.

[Doug Ferguson]

You got the deal.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I got $5 back in my hand. So that was.

[Michael]

He gave you a five spot. So here you go, kid.

[Doug Ferguson]

So you made money on this?

[Tony Kornheiser]

I don't think so. I don't know. I think it was reduced. I think I had two and a half pounds of cherries. And. And that's what happened. That would be three, six, seven and a half dollars, something like that.

[Michael]

Perhaps we should have the intern plant. A cherry tree would remove this completely.

[Tony Kornheiser]

No, perhaps we should have the intern get me the app.

[Doug Ferguson]

I was about to say, I'm very good at it.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I need the app. He's a child. He knows how to do it.

[Doug Ferguson]

If you get the app, I look forward to the phone call I get, which is I can't find the app. And it's somehow you press and hold the button and there's a secret. There's honestly a secret homepage that's like four or five to the right on yours that are all the forgotten apps. And you've left the weather app running for years now, which is why your phone always dies.

[Tony Kornheiser]

All right, that's it for me, Doug Ferguson, when we return to talk about the U.S. open at Oakmont. I'm Tony Kornheiser. This is the Tony Kornheiser show. Tony Korniser show. This is the Liquid IV read. It's peak hydration season and Liquid IV is the perfect companion for your hottest summer plants. They've just launched an exhilarating new flavor. Arctic Raspberry. Have you had that?

[Doug Ferguson]

No.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Have you had that?

[Michael]

I have not tried that yet.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Arctic Raspberry.

[Doug Ferguson]

I'm stuck with strawberry lemonade. I could have Arctic Raspberry Plus.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Liquid IV has sugar free solutions powered by Liv Hydra Science for smart hydration. Just visit LiquidIV.com and use the code Tony K at checkout for 20% off your first order.

[Doug Ferguson]

Like how the kids make my Liquid IV drink vanish.

[Tony Kornheiser]

They just drink it themselves. Oh.

[Doug Ferguson]

I go to the playground to pick them up and I just slowly see each of the three boys circle over to my, you know, my station and just take furtive sips.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay. Did you know that just one stick of liquid IV along with 16 ounces of water hydrates better than water alone? Now, Michael would have used that and then the kids would go and sip that. It's powered by LIV Hydroscience, an optimized ratio of electrolytes, essential vitamins and clinically tested nutrients that turn ordinary water into extraordinary hydration, no matter what your summer brings. Tear. Pour. Live. More. Go to liquidiv.com get 20% off your first order with the code Tony K at checkout. That's 20% off your first order with code Tony [e-mail] use the code, people. You're listening to the Tony Kornheiser Show. You've heard me talk about collars and company, makers of the amazing dress collar polo. Well, now they've taken things to the next level with their brand new maverick performance blazer. And you have to check this out. These blazers are sharp, perfect for travel. Why? Because they're wrinkle resistant. Just throw it in your bag. When you get to your destination, slip it back on. No wrinkles, no stress. Finally, no more figuring out how to travel with a blazer. And it's not just about convenience. The Mavic performance blazer is made with stretch fabric so you can move comfortably all day long. Plus, it's packed with smart features, inside security zip pockets, a built in optional pocket square, and even a sunglasses loop. While you're at it, pair the blazer with The Collars & Co. Famous Dress Collar polos. They've already sold over a million of these comfortable polos with the signature dress collar on top. So Visit Collars and co.com use the promo code Tony for 20% off today. Use the code people. That should send me one of these. Yeah, I'd like to see this. A non wrinkle blazer. Yeah, because then I don't have to carry a steamer around with me all the time.

[Brian Windhorst]

This is the Tony Kornheiser Show. Tony Kornheiser Show.

[Katie DeMartini]

Didn't want to talk again?

[Tony Kornheiser]

She sings better than you. Unless you're Barbara Streisand. She sings better than you. And I don't think Barbara listens anymore, if she ever did. This is Katie demartini. This is a song called Mean to Me. We have played her music before. This is a thrill for us and a delight to play her music again. Katie D. Martini, she plays in Doug Ferguson, who was at Oakmont covered in the Open. We return to Oakmont. It's one of those courses that it seems, Doug, that the USGA loves. Right. Because they always go back to Oakmont.

[Chris Cullen]

Always. Once every nine years, I think once every decade. Going back to maybe the 40s or something like that. They love coming here.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Chris Cullen]

Do anything here.

[Tony Kornheiser]

What. What does that. What do you mean?

[Chris Cullen]

They don't have to trick anything up. I mean, it's. There's been rumors, and I think it's exaggerated that they actually toned it down this week compared to what the members get every week. I mean, this is just a beast of a course and the members are sickos who love it.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's. I have heard that the members say, no, no, no, make it harder.

[Chris Cullen]

You know, I make the greens faster, all that stuff.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, yeah. So it is the scene of one of the most famous rounds in history. Right. Johnny Miller on a Sunday, shooting 63, which for years was the gold standard of. Of golf. I think that Dustin Johnson won there. I remember Angel Cabrera overpowered the place, it seemed to me. Yeah, it has. It has a great reputation for humbling golfers and setting a lovely stage for golf. What are your. Thought you've. You've seen them all. What are your thoughts on the course?

[Chris Cullen]

Well, first of all, it's funny when you said one of the most famous rounds ever, I thought you were talking about Friday in 94, when Arnold made his last appearance and, and everyone was fixated on OJ's Bronco change. I wasn't there for that, Tony. But first of all, I think it's the course that beats up players and they don't complain about it. You could get a place like Marion that gets tricked out or something like that. They will complain about how stupid the setup was. Everyone's just expecting what to get here, and they understand it. And so it's hard and it's suffering and there's very few complaints, usually. But for Johnny, you know, you mentioned used to be the gold standard. I still think it is. And Johnny will be the first to tell you over and over again that while there's been 60 threes and even 60 two years ago.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Chris Cullen]

No one has shot 63 in the last day to win. Tommy Fleetwood's done it, I think twice, by the way, and finished like fifth. But no one has actually shot 63 to win at a US Open except him.

[Tony Kornheiser]

He ought to feel good about that. Johnny Miller.

[Chris Cullen]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I mean, he ought to. Yeah. And he tells you and that's. That's okay. You know, he did it. It's okay. Is this, in your opinion, is this the most penal of the Open courses and deliberately so?

[Chris Cullen]

Well, yes, but not necessarily deliberately. I'm just thinking about, again, it's like this every day of the year. Probably so deliberately. Maybe it's completely, you know, shrinking fairways and Pouring concrete into greens, et cetera.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Right.

[Chris Cullen]

It's just naturally the toughest. I'd also put wing foot up there, Tony. I think wing foot is another one that would stand out as a, you know, a classic US Open. Beat you up with. With thick rough, with narrow fairways and, and greens that are pitched and, you know, can't be above the hole type thing. But. But I think Oakmont is just a notch ahead.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Golfers seem to be okay with U.S. open courses that treat them harshly, where they don't finish 22 under, where they finish maybe 2 under to win. I don't know that they want every course, every week to be like that, but they do seem okay when it's in the US Open, and they. It's sort of like they feel. They expect this is going to happen.

[Chris Cullen]

Yeah. And I thought one of the more interesting points this week came from, from Xander when they talked about, you know, do people enjoy watching you just have to hack back to the fairway, you know, if you're in the rough, or should you be able to go for the green? And Xander said, yeah, that's what they want to see. They want to see us suffer. And that's why, you know, that's why a lot of people tune into the US Open, frankly. And not just that, the hacking out, but just the idea that it ain't easy and you look like us.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I say this because I Live in Washington, D.C. but when Rory just destroyed congressional 10, 12 years ago, that hurt that course. Right. I mean, they didn't want to play the open air again.

[Chris Cullen]

Yeah. And they, you know, discount the fact that it rained all week. I mean, it was a. It was a soft, easy course, but. Yeah, you don't think of Congressional the way you did maybe coming out of, you know, what, what Ernie did back in. Help me out on the year here. 97 or Venturi, you know, struggling to get up the last Fairway back in 64. And that was Congressional, and that was tough. And that was US Open, and then that was 16 under or whatever. Rory Shotman, 16.

[Tony Kornheiser]

It was just. Yeah, he was destroying it. He would. But you're right about the rain. Let me go back to Oakmont. Do they have a 230 yard par three?

[Chris Cullen]

I think it's 242. That's number 16. But. But I think you're thinking of the one that's, that's on the card at 289. They will play it at 301. Scheffler had driver yesterday.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Wait, this is a par three yeah. Wow. That's number eight.

[Chris Cullen]

Number eight. It played one year in 07 when they were here one one round when they, you know, moved the pin all the way back and the tee all the way back and it tipped out at 300. And just because that's what the USGA did, just be able to say it like if it was 298 or 300, what's the difference? But you want to be able to say, yep, 300 yards.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I understand that, that, you know, great golfers now, pro golfers now drive the ball over 300 routinely. Rory goes much higher than that. But a par three, like there's no real room for error on a par 3. I would assume that. You would assume that thing is going to play well over par all week.

[Chris Cullen]

Moderately over, I think. You know, I don't have the thing in front of me right now, Tony, but I think the average score was about 3.4, which I've seen worse. You know, brutal par four is going to often play a half stroke over par for the field. Jeff Ogilvy made an interesting point. He said it might be one of the easier par threes on Oakland just because the green is not heavily contoured. So you clear a section of the, of the bunker called the Sahara, and you've got loads of room to run it onto the green. And you should be a highly skilled golfer who can hit a fairway medal or a driver if necessary, and hit a reasonably straight over and let it run up and measure your distance. And then you've got a, you know, you don't have a crazy punt you're facing. Whereas 16, for example, which is only 242, has got a wicked false front. It's got these, you know, sections of contour and that might even play harder. Plus, plus, think of it. I thought about this at Quail Hollow, excuse me, when they had a 250 yard par 3. When else are these guys going to hit a long iron? I mean, they hit it so far. Right now even the par fives are hitting four and five irons on some of them. So I think it's a good test. Let them, Let me, let me see how well and how straight you can hit a three wood, which is probably going to be the primary club selection, I think, on that hole.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Most people, when they join a golf club would prefer to have a golf course that they could play every day that it was not. I'm not saying it's easy, but it's comfortable. This thing is a monster, right? It's a monster.

[Chris Cullen]

Seth Wall, when he was at the PJ of America, he used to always describe courses as happy places and unhappy places. And this would, this would be miserably unhappy. But. But they love it. I mean, it's an interesting membership here. From the other day, if you lived in Pittsburgh, would you be a member? And. And he said yes, just to be able to say that he belonged at Oakmont. But he said, there's. I probably play it once a week. I'd go over to Fox Chapel, have a happy time. I don't know, you know, man, you lose, you know. And plus, the other thing about playing it as a member, there's no Marshalls out here. During member play. You'd spend all day looking for the ball.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, the rough is really thick. I thought. I read in Golf Digest yesterday that they surreptitiously mowed the rough within the last 24 hours. Is that true?

[Chris Cullen]

Trying to. Yeah, but it's not the hype. It's. It's. They had no trouble growing grass in the Ohio Valley this year. It's. It is so dense. And just getting a, you know, getting a club through molasses is what it feels like. I have to say, close the club and move it left and all sorts.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Of weird things I have to say, as somebody who's a terrible golfer myself, when I get in the rough and I can't get out, it drives me crazy. But it would thrill me to see pros not be able to get out. Just like when I watch that TGL and they miss all the putts. Makes me so happy. Makes me happy because they. They are. They're unbelievably good. And so what type of player. It's a long course, and it is, you know, if you don't hit the ball straight, it seems to me even if you do, it can be just wicked. What type of player does it favor?

[Chris Cullen]

I think a beast is the short answer. And if you go back and look through. Through history, you know, you had Dustin, who's an animal, and you had Angel Cabrera, who's a. Who's a. Who's a big man and a strong man.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Chris Cullen]

And you had Ernie Ells, and you have Jack Nicklaus, and that kind of seems to be the profile of the guy you're looking for. So maybe someone like a John Rom. Scotty's, you know, and Scotty, he's. He's the favorite everywhere he goes because he's. Doesn't make mistakes. He does everything well. Those are the ones, I think. Bryson I'm sorry, left him out. These just big strong physical specimens who when they do get it offline, can do better than the other guys.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Well, I mean, I'm just gonna take a guess here. You can tell me if I'm wrong. If they drive it really far and it's in terrible rough, they are closer to the hole than most and so they can use wedges to get out where most others would have to use different types of irons and be. And that would be more punitive.

[Chris Cullen]

Right, right, that's. And you got your six iron and all sudden the grass is grabbing it and it's going to any which direction. Yeah, and that's kind of what Bryson did it Wingfoot, if you remember, he was blasting away and when he got in the rough he was having, he was having a, you know, wedge pitching wedge and was able to get it around the green and played those wedges well too, by the way. I can't imagine, you know, all this talk, Tony, and like speech's gonna win this week or something like that, but it's gonna be a big guy. It's gotta be.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, and that's, that's what I'm asking. I mean, let's just say you are the most accurate player in the world, but you don't have length like these other guys and you can get it in the short grass often still. It's a very, very long course and if you have to do 140 yard shot and somebody else is doing an 80 yard shot, you'd think that the 80 would be easier.

[Chris Cullen]

Exactly. And there is, you know, the rain isn't affecting. I mean the rough is thick whether it's wet or dry. But the run out on the fairway would be interesting too because there's, you do get some significant role. You can. This is a ground game. Not a single water hazard on the course. There's a lot of, and oftentimes there's a lot of run up areas in front of the green and if you're not the longest guy but you are straight, you do, you know, you do have some, some run up areas. I don't know if you saw yesterday, this happened again back at 16 Europe. You're 140 yards out on the first hole and Zach Blair used a putter yesterday, just whacked the putter and it ran forever. Guys were doing that last time. So you could stand from 150 yards away and just putt it. And it just doesn't stop rolling till it gets on the green downhill by the way, but you'll get some holes like that. I think some of the. What's interesting here is some of the shorter holes go uphill, Some of the longer holes are more, more downhill with run up areas. Very clever course.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. I mean, and everybody, everybody respects it. Everybody, you know, lists it as something they would like to play. The membership just sounds insane to me because just it's long and hard all the time. I was saying to my son, when he said there's no water on the course, I said, well, you never lose the ball, but you do lose the ball. I would imagine the people who go out in the morning to set up the course, they find about 300 balls every day, right?

[Chris Cullen]

Yeah, there's balls that have sunk to the. Just you can't see it. You know, when I came here in 16, I came out to the right behind the 16th green and McDowell was out there, pulled me over, handed me his wedge and there was his ball. Sitting in the rough and it was kind of embarrassing, but I, I moved it three feet, swung hard, moved it three feet. And I thought, holy cow, what are these guys into?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, I would have picked it up and moved it three feet anyway and fluffed it up and tried. You know, the craziest thing is when you're in thick rough and you know, your friends take out, you know, three woods and you go, you're not going to get it on the ball. What are you, you're nuts. You can't do it. I mean, so anyway, what is, what is the bet on the score? What are people anticipating the winner to be?

[Chris Cullen]

That's a great question. It's come up a couple times this week, didn't get very good answers. I personally think three under. And the only reason I say that when Cabrera won it was, it was five over. But Dustin, Dustin shot five under, four under with the penalty. These guys are good and we lose sight of that sometimes. Not really. But you know, scores have been coming down over, over, over decades because that's what sports does.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Chris Cullen]

And as hard as it is, they're still pretty capable of hitting it straight, of getting it on the green, of making a few putts and limiting mistakes, etc. And I think a three or four under range is probably decent. I don't think even par is going to hurt you either.

[Tony Kornheiser]

By the way, you mentioned rom, you mentioned Sh. Scheffler, you mentioned DeChambeau. Noticeable to me was. You did not mention Rory, who seems to be having some sort of nervous breakdown. I mean, is, is he okay? Is he okay?

[Chris Cullen]

It's been weird, Tony. It really. It really has. I mean, he talked at the PGA and you could see it at the Masters that he has fulfilled lifetime dreams. And I think of the pga, he said he will never have another moment as great as. As the Masters. And so the, the thought coming out of that was total freedom. This guy is set loose and he's going to go on a run.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Chris Cullen]

And Rory's having a hard time getting inspired, motivated. He actually said that in Canada last week and again this week, that finding the motivation to work on the range has become problematic. You know, what is, what, what are your goals? Don't really have any. I'm not, you know, I'm not chasing anything anymore is one of the phrases he's used. And it's been. It's been strange. He's having driver issues, trying to find the right driver for him. That failed driver test wasn't nearly as big a deal as I think people made it out to be at the PGA because it happens all the time. But the motivation and the next mountain, you know, Nicholas, that was the thing with Nicholas and I think Johnny Miller. Johnny reaches the top of the mountain and he says, now what? Jack reaches the top of the mountain and he says, where's the next one? And that's what Rory's lacking right now. Where's the next mountain?

[Tony Kornheiser]

It's really well said. Thank you so much, Doug, for being on. Thank you.

[Chris Cullen]

Thanks, Tony.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Doug Ferguson, boys and girls. We will take a break. Brian Windhorst will join us when we return. I'm Tony Kornheiser. You're listening to the Tony Kornheiser Show. Now let's talk about that car you own but don't use, the one you're paying to keep registered and insured that's taking up space out front and is just sitting there doing no one any good. Let me tell you what you should do about that car. You should give Cars for Kids a call and have them take care of it for you. That's right. Just give them the info. They will come to you as soon as the next day. Take that car off your hands at no cost to you. Even better, they will turn that car into funds to help kids. So visit cars4kids.org Tony, that's cars with a K and the number 4 to donate or call cars for kids directly at 1-877-cars-FOR KIDS.

[Michael]

You don't want to sing it?

[Tony Kornheiser]

I'm not singing it.

[Doug Ferguson]

Donate your car today.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Now. I will never get that out of my head for the rest of the day. And they will get that car picked up in a jiffy.

[Doug Ferguson]

Join the band.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Plus you can get a tax deduction, vacation voucher, and life will be just great. They've been around for 30 years and have done this over a million times. Call now or head over to carsforkids.org Tony right now and get this done. That's carsforkids.org Tony, remember, that's cars with a K. I think you're on mute.

[Chris Cullen]

Workday is starting to sound the same. I think you're on mute. Find something that sounds better for your career on LinkedIn. With LinkedIn job collections, you can browse curated collections by relevant industries and benefits like Flexpto or hybrid workplaces so you can find the right job for you. Get [e-mail] jobs finding where you fit. LinkedIn knows how.

[Tony Kornheiser]

You're listening to the Tony Kornheiser show once again. This is Katie demartini. This is called Poster Girl.

[Chris Cullen]

She's really good.

[Michael]

Yes, she is.

[Tony Kornheiser]

She's really good. Michael, if people like Katy demartini want to send in their original music and we'd play play it on the show. How do they do it?

[Doug Ferguson]

Send us your music by emailing it to jinglesonyquinizershow.com you won't get this reference. There's a lot of Gracie Abrams and Maggie Rogers to the Sound.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I don't know who they are. Yeah, I know Gracie Allen and Maggie Smith. They're 10,000 years older than the people you were talking about.

[Michael]

Say good night, Gracie.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. Brian Windhorst joins us now. We just had. We were talking to Doug Ferguson because he's covering Oakmont for the Apartment. Do you ever play Oakmont?

[Brian Windhorst]

No, but I went to two opens there. My father was from Pittsburgh and spent his life going to events there. So I know Oakmont among all the US Open venues. I know it very well.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Do you want to play it? It's really hard.

[Brian Windhorst]

I know. I was. I was looking at the interview that Rory McElroy gave this week about last week. He went and played a practice round there and he said the greens were running at 15 on the step meter, which I've never heard. Heard of that number. I guess it's rained a little bit since then, so they've slowed down. But my God, I do remember the 1994 Tony went there. The day of Arnold Palmer, that famous day where it was honored Palmer's last day at the US Open and the night of the finals. Knicks, rockets and the O.J. chase. I was at Oakmont that day, and I remember seeing guys hit 40 foot putts and they took it back like three inches. And so I, I do have fond memories of that, but I. I think I might struggle. I think I. I don't think I would be shooting 81 like Rory.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. So, Michael, what did you say what they do with the greens there?

[Doug Ferguson]

They slow it down for the US Open. But Rory, in that practice run, I think he birdied the last two for the 81.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. Also wouldn't be doing that.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Did your dad play golf?

[Brian Windhorst]

Yes, he taught me the game. Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Oh, did. So where did he. Did he belong to some place there?

[Brian Windhorst]

No.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay.

[Brian Windhorst]

But, you know, he went to, I think, seven in his life. He went to seven US Opens at Oakmont. You know, it's been on there in the rotation. It's been the longest. Yeah, pretty much the longest running. And, you know, I was actually this week, I was watching footage from the 1973 US Open where Johnny Miller famously shot 63 in the final round. And I was sharing the footage and watching it with Mike Breen, and we were enjoying the. You know, that stuff still exists. And it's amazing to go back and watch what that round that Johnny Miller had in 73, especially, first off, I didn't know that he lipped out for birdie at 18. He had about a. Maybe a 20 foot putt at 18 that literally would have. Would have gone down for 62. And of course, you know, for decades and decades, nobody could, Nobody could beat, you know, the 63 of the majors. And just, you know, hearing Jim McKay call that round Breen. And I really enjoyed finding that footage this week.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Breen plays, right? Breen's pretty good, I think.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. Breen, as a teenager in his 20s, was a valet at Wingfoot and has some wonderful stories from those days. So I think he got. I think he got out on the course and, you know, Wingfoot is one of those places where the members aren't happy unless everybody walks off the course, you know, in tears. So that's where he was raised. So he is, of course, drawn to a place like Oakmont.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. That's good to hear. You sound good like this because it's not a get up day for you. It's not a first take day for you. You talk about stuff. I wanted to. I don't know that everybody knows this. Brian does a show called the Hoop Collective. It's. I guess it's a podcast. And I told him the other day because I watched Some of it I said you had a guest. I didn't know who it was. You got to put the people's names underneath, you know, during the podcast. And then I wanted to ask you, this is your podcast, unlike ours, Is yours visual as well, or is it just audio?

[Brian Windhorst]

Yes, it's. It's. For several years now. All of the. All of them are on YouTube. But during the NBA season, it. Three times a week, and during the NBA season, It runs on ESPN2 on Wednesdays, and in the playoffs, it runs on ESPN2 on Mondays and Wednesdays. So, you know, it's actually a little bit. It's definitely broadened the reach. But when you have to operate a podcast, like a television show, and have like five segments and hit breaks and stuff, I don't like it as much, but certainly it doesn't. What you were referring to as Iman Shumpert.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, I didn't know it was.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, he's a former NBA player. He won a championship with the Cavs in 2016, and he has been in the. In the finals. We do a podcast immediately after the game and sitting on the court. And, you know, it's actually really great to have a guy who's, you know, he played in four finals, and the way he sees the game and the way he reacts to the games are. It's a good change to those of us who we mostly just have reporters during the season.

[Tony Kornheiser]

All right, I'll ask a couple of questions about basketball now, because I think I probably should. It's your story that there is mutual interest between the Knicks and Jason Kidd. You know, there's a story today that the Knicks were turned down to try and talk to Ime Udoka and to try to talk to the guy in Minnesota. So how much interest is there in Jason Kidd? It doesn't feel like it's exclusive.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. Well, Shams Tranya, my colleague at espn, said last night that the Mavericks would. Would turn down it if it was formally asked for. This is one of these gray areas that exist in the NBA because it's not normal that you hire another head coach that's employed by another team. It does happen occasionally. In fact, Rick Carlisle, when, you know, he's now in his fourth year in Indianapolis here with the Pacers. When he left the Pacers, he already. Or when he left the Dallas Mavericks After 13 years, he already had the Pacers job. The Pacers pursued him and hired him essentially while he was the Mavericks head coach. At that particular point in time, the Mavericks and he were ready to end Their association, he resigned. His coach and the Mavericks sort of knew what was going on. So sometimes it happens like that. But there are times when you go and you pluck a coach away. And this happened with Jason Kidd once. Jason Kidd in 2014 was the head coach of the Brooklyn Nets and wanted to coach the Milwaukee Bucks and Giannis Tennokounmpo. And he negotiated a deal essentially while he was the coach of the Nets. And the. I don't think the Nets were thrilled about it, but they realized their head coach didn't want to be there anymore and so they traded him for two second round picks. This also happened famously with Doc Rivers. He was the coach of the Celtics, won a championship there. They were about to launch a rebuild. He wasn't down with it. He saw what was being built in Los Angeles, the Clippers. And he went to the Celtics and said, I want to be in the Clippers. And they arranged a trade and they were going to send Kevin Durant with him to la. But the. But the league blocked the trade. They said, you can have Doc Rivers, but you can't have Kevin Garnett. So this does happen. It is unusual.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Kevin Garnett. Kevin Durant. You mean Kevin Durant.

[Brian Windhorst]

Sorry, yeah, no, Kevin Garnett.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Oh, Kevin Garnett.

[Brian Windhorst]

Okay, Kevin Garnett. Yeah, he was gonna be a Clipper. And the leak said no, because however the dynamics of that went down, I'm sure there's some books that been written about that anyway, so it does happen. And so the, the process of formally requesting permission is a bit of a prickly one. Like, it's, it's, you know, it's not something that, you know, when you're doing a head coach, these are all back room negotiations. It's very rarely done straight up, at least if it's done well. And so I think the kid situation, there's definitely been some backroom discussing here and really what it's going to come down to. I think Jason Kidd, you know, the Knicks wouldn't be pursuing it unless there was some interest there. Now, whether it's what Jason Kidd's number one priority is, you know, because look, sometimes you want steak for dinner, sometimes you want seafood. Would you have seafood? Sure, I'll have seafood. You know, but the steak sounds good too. Like, you know, maybe Jason Kidd is indifferent, maybe he feels like he's somewhat interested in the next job, but, you know, he's still also happy to stay in Dallas. So the question is how Dallas plays it. Dallas can just flat out say no, which They've kind of sent the vibe out now. That's what they would do. And maybe that's where it ends. Or they can, you know, you say no, but what if you get a phone call and say, well, what if we. What if we gave you this? What if we changed. Yeah, could we change your opinion if we gave you this? And so that's kind of the stuff that might be going on now. And maybe it progresses and maybe it doesn't. I just want to point out that this literally happened a year ago. The Phoenix Suns wanted to hire Chauncey Billups. Matt Ishpia, their owner, is obsessed with. If you ever played in Michigan or went to Michigan State or drove through Michigan, he likes you. And Chauncey Billups obviously was a champion with the Detroit Pistons. He wanted to hire him as his coach. He was coaching with the. With the. Tim. With the Trailblazers, and where he had a lousy record.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Like, it's terrible. His record is terrible.

[Brian Windhorst]

And they thought for that reason maybe the Blazers would let him go. And the Blazers said, thank you for inquiring. We're not going to let him go. And Chauncey coach this year. And he has since had his contract extended and the Suns have since hired two coaches. So it does happen where there is a no and people move on. And that's maybe where the Knicks have to go, but maybe not. We'll see.

[Tony Kornheiser]

There is game three tonight. Yeah. Right. In Indiana. The first game in Indiana. I know the series is tied, 1:1. I also know that through 36 minutes of each game, it's been a route. It's been a route. There'll be no if. If Indiana did not come back in Game 1, there'd be no reason to ever watch Game 2 or Game 3 or Game 4. The NBA cannot be happy with the domination that Oklahoma City has had through three quarters of both of these games. Right?

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. I think they would like to have it a little bit more balanced, obviously, but it is 1:1. The Pacers haven't played well yet. And this is the one thing. While everybody counts the. The viewership numbers, and that's fine. Look at the two small markets. You're not going to break records.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Well, if it gets to six or seven, there'll be big numbers.

[Brian Windhorst]

I mean, this is the one thing that I say this, and people. I know you won't be surprised by this, Tony, but I've been saying this for years, and people don't seem to understand it or don't seem to get it. The NBA is A volume first business. They are interested in volume of games. You know, David Stern famously once said that the ideal matchup in the NBA Finals would be Lakers versus Lakers. But if you actually gave Adam Silver a choice, not that he would ever say this publicly, whether the Lakers would play the Celtics in the finals and end in a sweep or the Thunder play the Pacers in the finals and an end in six or seven, it's a no brainer.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, I know.

[Brian Windhorst]

I agree under Pacers because each finals game is worth, I don't know, maybe including revenue from tickets and global meteorites and everything. It's probably in the neighborhood of $100 million for each game once you include everything. So the NBA wants more. So the Pacers have not lost back to back games in three months and they've got a lot going for them. And while the Thunder are clearly the favorites and have clearly been the better team through two games, they have had some duds in this playoffs and they've lost a road game in each of the last two series. Yeah, and so like I, I'm not somebody who's ever going to try to pretend like I know what's going to happen. I've been around long enough to say that I cannot predict the future accurately. But it would not surprise me at all if this was two, two after four and it. And not necessarily because I think that it's that close. But the Thunder spiked game one and when you spike game one against a good team like the Pacers, it usually comes back to give you problems. And I suspect that could happen.

[Tony Kornheiser]

The Thunder, the one thing I look in the box, score every once in a while and I don't know how many teams can do this. I don't pay that close attention. They got a guy, Lou Dort, he doesn't score. They got four players out there trying to score. And Lou Dort, because he's a great defensive player and I mean I, I find that admirable, you know, because I think they, it shows me they game plan for the whole game. Even though this, they know this guy's not going to get him 20 points.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, he's. When he first came into the league, he literally couldn't hit a five footer. He has gotten to the point where if you leave him wide open, you know, one out of every two games or three games, he'll kill, burn you. But I would say that Lou Dort does something and leads something that the Thunder are change the way the whole league operates in today's game. Tony, as you know Most teams just when there's a pick and roll, of which there's about 80 a game for each team, most teams just switch the defenders. They just say, okay, if my man gets in the way, I'll just take the other man. The reason they do that is because now almost everybody on the court can shoot. And if you. If you try to navigate through a screen that way and you're not switching, a lot of times the guy will just get an open shot and he'll make a jump shot in your face. So teams play that way, and they look for guys who can switch on to any defender, even if it's a big man who can just hang with the guard for some six seconds while they. While they recover. That's really valuable. And that's how the league operates, because there's so much shooting. The Thunder say, you know what? We're not gonna do that. We're not just gonna let you have a switch. Because a lot of times there won't even be a screen set. People, just because they're so afraid of losing position, they'll just do the switch right away. They won't even have to work hard. The Thunder reject that premise. And so they have guys like Lou Dortmund and guys like Alex Caruso, especially those two guys especially. But also this guy, Cason Wallace, that they have been starting in this series who fight screens like it's for their dinner. They fight over the top of screens. They don't let themselves be moved. And it's just disorienting for teams, and it causes, you know, and they have. They play with so much energy, and they play with so much ferocity, and they care about it, and they fight every little tooth and nail. And so when you see the Thunder, you see a team play defense like almost nobody in the league does, and it really messes teams up and it. It rips away teams ability to, like, play their normal defense. And so one of the big things that happened in this series, and I didn't necessarily agree with it, but I'm not a head coach. Mark Dagenault, the head coach of the Thunder, he had the starting lineup that he used all the way through the play.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Switched it.

[Brian Windhorst]

Very successful.

[Tony Kornheiser]

He switched it.

[Brian Windhorst]

That's right. And the reason he did that, Tony, is because the Pacers, almost more than any other team, hunt mismatches. If you watched any of that series with the Knicks in the Eastern Conference finals, you know, wherever Jalen Brunson or Carl Towns were on the court, his player would come up and they would force the switch and then they would just eviscerate Brunson and Towns and Dagger thought if he played with his double big lineup, which was so successful, Chad Holmgren as the power forward and Isaiah Hartenstein as the center, that it would enable the Pacers to do their hunting more than anything. So he said, even though it might hurt us, especially in rebounding, I'm going to take try to take that weapon away from the Pacers. And it's worked. You know, early in this series, Tyrese Halliburton and Pascal Siakam are only averaging 13 shots each, and that's just not enough when you need to score a bunch of points to beat the Thunder because they can't get to the mismatches that they use to dominate the Knicks on that end. So that chess match, when you have a guy like Lou Dort who is relentless, it makes it easier and the Thunder used that weapon.

[Tony Kornheiser]

We will see if that happens again tonight. And if Halliburton doesn't score 20, they're not going to win because that's been the history so far. Thank you, Brian. Enjoy the game. Thank you.

[Brian Windhorst]

Thank you, Tony. Appreciate it.

[Chris Cullen]

See ya.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Brian Windhorse. Yeah, absolutely. Brian Winhorse, Boys and girls. We'll come back with email and jingle. I am Tony Kornheiser.

[Amazon Prime]

This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Knowing you could be saving money for the things you really want is a great feeling. Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can choose to bundle and save with the person price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state.

[Tony Kornheiser]

You're listening to the Tony Kornheiser Show.

[Chris Cullen]

Here comes Tony's mail back. Got your emails, faxes and your notes. Here comes Tony's mail back on. Read some for all of you folks.

[Tony Kornheiser]

But don't send him faxes. Thank you to Jason Fuse for that. Nigel, you want to do the Bethesda Bagel ad?

[Doug Ferguson]

Bethesda Bagels.

[Michael]

We love them. You would as well just go to BethesdaBaggles.com for the location in the DC area nearest you. Then pop on in and you'll be thrilled.

[Tony Kornheiser]

And before we get to the mail that let me just say into each heart some tears must fall. Though you love and lose, you must stand tall because we all got to cry sometimes. I said sigh sometimes Pull yourself together no use crying forever because there's too many fish in the sea Marvelettes Too many fish in the sea. Thanks to our guests today. Doug Ferguson, Brian Windhorst, thanks as well to today's sponsors. Remember you can listen to us on Apple Podcast, Spotify and Odyssey. Get the show through Apple. Please leave us a review.

[Doug Ferguson]

My great Greedy the Captain turns three this weekend.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I know.

[Doug Ferguson]

Celebrate with this with this Father's day Johnny O Captain 3, I think if you get expedited shipping, you can still get it in time for all the dads in your life for Father's Day.

[Tony Kornheiser]

And three, do send if you can do send a note to Christian Pulisic's father and to Tyrese Halliburton's father. Wish them a happy Father's Day. They're making me nuts. Okay. My great thanks to Scott Gronke for in York, Pennsylvania for a very sweet email. Thank you very, very much. Do you want me to read the thing from Norwegian Soft Kitchen? Yes, Tony, since you're unburdened by memory. You may not remember this, but we sure remember the incident at Cleveland State University that occurred during a 1991-92 winter tour of campuses across the U.S. when you played bass for us. Glenn had been pounding some small curd cottage cheese all day before the show, so by the time the curtain was raised, Glenn was so hopped up he was half out of his mind from the get go, Glenn played every song too fast on his guitar and you and our drummer Alan were left to try to keep up with Glenn's frenetic playing. This led to some less than stellar music from the band, and it was 100% Glenn's fall for this. We blasted our way through 30 minutes before the crowd began to turn on us. Your pleadings and remonstrations with Glen to mellow out and slow the pace fell on deaf ears, as when Glenn gets a belly full of cottage cheese, no one can reason with them. 50 minutes into the shows when everything fell apart, a small barrage of you suck. Get off the stage bellowings had begun to descend down upon us, and that's when Glenn screamed into the microphone, bugger off, you wonkers. Glenn normally is respectful and appreciative of our fans, but get three pounds of cottage cheese in him, all bets are off. At this point, the verbal assaults were joined by a storm of beer bottles being hurled at stage. Like a Secret Service agent protecting the president, you placed yourself in harm's way, planting yourself between the crowd and Glenn as you began to hustle the belligerent Glenn off the stage. It was just before Glenn reached safety that he Looked back over his shoulder to see Captain Tony taking the TK Salute on his maiden voyage. Your middle finger held high and glorious as you saluted the Cleveland state crowd. We may have lost the crowd that night, Tony, but we won a basis for the ages. Glenn and Allen, Norwegian salt. Kid, these things are brilliant. They're absolutely brilliant. Okay, this is a long one as well. Oh, it's from Chuck and Roxy. Yes. Okay, here we go. It's been about nine years since I've written in as the Broadway show softball league correspondent up here in New York City, so we thought we were due for an update. Chuck and Roxy play from Moulin Rouge this season. But probably more important, George Clooney has in fact been playing this summer for his show. Good night and good luck. And happy to report he's quite the gamer. In fact, he had a leadoff triple just a few short weeks ago. Takes the bump for most of their games. And it's just a real pleasure to be on the field with another fan favorite. Nick Jonas is also playing at a high level this season. In fact, he clobbered a home run off of loyal little Mike Ritz. Eat it, Ritz. Last week as he rounded the bases. I believe you could see him giving him the TK salute. Ritz, third wheel of the Loyal Littles podcast, did get the last laugh though, as his team pulled out a 72 victory and he received MVP game honors elsewhere in the league. Talk about a ratings killer. Yes, Hamilton still has a team, but got crushed by our Moulin Rouge squad. 13:3 and Aladdin, book of Mormon and Wicked all got victories as well. Glad you enjoyed the Tony Awards. Please come back up here. See a show soon. Chuck and Roxy would gladly meet you at the prom for some chicken parm hour treat leches, and always thanks for everything you do. P.S. rick Devins, who will be representing the loyal Littles and Survivor season 50 was episode 200 for anyone who wants to hear its story before the season starts. Michael, you were correct. They do two seasons every year, so it's been on the air for 25 years. I didn't know that.

[Doug Ferguson]

Nick Jonas still get jealous?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. David Epstein in New York. One of the reasons I never want to leave New York is Broadway. More than 30 years ago, three work colleagues and I wandered into Central park on a beautiful September Saturday to try and have a pickup football game. We recruited some strangers and had such a good time. We continued the game every week from September through January, keeping the game aligned for five years. One of the first recruits was was a guy named Greg who played for eight weeks and then had to leave town and head to Buffalo. But the next September he returned and he and I have remained close since then. So it was great surprise that my friend Greg Stewer ended up playing Phil from Legal in the recently concluded run of Good Night and Good Luck. I got to see Greg perform a week ago and then go backstage afterwards. A true treat. To answer Michael's question, no, the show was not aired in the way a person would see it in the theater. In fact, much to Greg's chagrin, a key scene between Phil from Legal and Joe, staged wonderfully during the play, was portrayed to the CNN viewer as a close up of Joe only. And to respond to Michael's comment about the Tonys, Brian Stokes Mitchell is indeed a singular talent. His masculine child and mine were classmates and Stokes performed a private concert for parents, family and friends. His impossible to dream, impossible dream is otherworldly and I'm happy to report that he is as charming and intelligent as he is talented.

[Doug Ferguson]

So good to hear.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Doesn't that make you happy?

[Doug Ferguson]

I still go back deepod YouTube videos to see his early performance.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Doesn't that make you happy? Marcus in Phoenix, Arizona you mentioned the George Clooney performance of Good Night. Isn't it good that we do this and not just sports? Good Night and Good Luck Took me back to a story my dad told me just a week ago. My parents flew from their home in Dallas to New York City specifically to see this play as a way to celebrate his 73rd birthday on May 27. Never minding the hit my inheritance took thanks to this extravagance trip. I called him when he got back to Dallas, asked him how it was, he said like nothing I'll ever experience. They got to their seats just about 10 minutes prior to the start time. They spent a ridiculous amount of money to sit about 15 rows from the stage, so they had tremendous seats. He tells me. It's like now two minutes before the start and suddenly a giant round of applause starts from the front of the room and he spies the final couple of attendees get into their seats. Barack and Michelle Obama. Everyone is clapping, so we start clapping, but we have no idea why. And all of a sudden a guy next to me says, that's Barack Obama. The show ends and the cast is taking their bows and Clooney steps forward so he can introduce special guests in attendance. I asked my old man if he started to stand. One of the special guests was his own mother and the other was the wonderful Michelle Obama and some guy who follows her around. Needless to say, it brought the house down and gave my parents a memory they will never forget. That's a great story. It really is. Mark lynch in Camby, Indiana, why didn't you call to tell me good night and good luck was being broadcast? Okay, Charlie Bird Springfield, VA this Wednesday I will complete my 32nd and final year of teaching. Though the thought of retirement is very exciting, I know the transition into becoming director emeritus of the official middle school band of the Tony Kornizer show will be challenging. People ask me what I'll miss most and the answer is easy. Nigel's daily drop off of the morning's emails. Anyway, I'm off to spend more time with the family, not necessarily mine, and to spend time in the Garden. Okay, Olive Garden. I'll send you weekly road updates from my journal, capturing 82 games, witnessing a sixth pick wizard. Oh, from Michael Granberry. I'm writing the mail. Did you read this?

[Michael]

I did.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I'm writing the mailbag to offer a big Texas thank you to Richard Justice. I was so surprised, pleasantly so and so complimented by his very kind words about me during the show on Wednesday, June 4. Had Richard known what I was doing, however, moments before I heard them, he might have thought differently. I had spent a lovely day at a Red Sox game in Fenway park where the Sox beat the Angels in the bottom of the ninth with a walk off homer. In addition to that, I made friends with a couple next to me who were great. But alas, the day turned the moment I left the Green Monster. I got in my rental car only to discover that my iPhone was deader than Texas roadkill, leaving me with no hope at all of using the Maps app to work my way back to Natick, where my wife, a children's book author, had been flown in to speak to more than 1,000 school kids. Would I have to go all 1950s and ask for directions at a gas station? I was so crazy lost. I thought for sure, given the nomenclature of the TK show, that I would soon end up in Rivera. Finally, I wandered into a Mom and Pop drugstore on a gorgeous street in Newton, Mass. Where the pharmacist sold me for $10.61 a cord guaranteed to pump power from an outlet in the rental car back into my overrated iPhone. And the moment I powered up the pod, there it was, the great Richard justice, saying very nice things about me. Amazing. Had one of America's greatest baseball writers known the story of how silly stuck I was moment before the compliment he might well have encouraged me to send in the Bob Dylan song Idiot Wind, as in you're an idiot babe like any Texan would be leaving Fenway park with an iPhone that's as dead as the Cowboys Playoff chances maybe the 1950s way of getting directions wasn't so bad after all. George Millay There may have been no chance for a Triple Crown this year, but this year's Derby, Preakness and Belmont were the best in recent memory. You guys did a great job throughout the spring. The combination of Ryan Flatter and Andy Beyer handicapping the races made me the product of a bygone era. Happy Buyer advised us just to watch and enjoy the Belmont. I bet it anyway. I did a 10 cent superfacto keeping sovereignty keying sovereignty over five other horses. Box was a six dollar bet. I hit it, it paid 405. There you go. That's the price of entertainment.

[Michael]

Well done.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Wow, that's really nice. From Randy hi Tony, Longtime fan of pti. On your podcast I heard you rave about the summer skewers. The mint in my garden has come in beautifully and made a batch this weekend. I would love to share a batch if you're ever in St. Louis. We may not have invented them, but we love them just the same. Big fan of your work from Ross Modjeska in Chicago, Tony. Not only is the Costco hot dog $1.50 but it comes with a fountain, soda and free refills. The hot dogs were introduced at Costco in the 1980s and originally produced by Hebrew national until Costco started producing their own. It is reported that Costco sells over 250200 million $1.50 hot dogs and soda combos per year and was the inspiration for IKEA to start selling their $1 hot dog. The story goes that Costco co founder Jim Sinegal, I hope I pronounce that right, once told the Costco CEO who was complaining about the money they were losing on the combo that if he ever raised the price of the and I quote effing hot dog, I will kill you. Figure it out on a quote. While the deal is unbeatable, I still prefer and miss George's hot dogs from the shack at Columbia. I consume close to 200 million Columbia hot dogs during my nine years as a caddy, during grade school and throughout college, even being lucky enough to caddy in your foursome on numerous occasions. Do me a small favor and tell fellow Little's Michael, Matt and my brother Tyler to eat it and to never eat their hot dogs with ketchup from Joe Pearson.

[Doug Ferguson]

Split lengthwise and griddled.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Hmm.

[Doug Ferguson]

The hot dog Split lengthwise. Griddled.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay. Joe Pearson in Indianapolis. The potatoes have eyes. Sounds like a long lost Wes Craven horror movie about the vegetable revolution. They don't want to kill you. They just have to. Josh Cromwell, Moselle, Mississippi. I can't wait for you to introduce your next intern, who I'm sure will be responsible for washing your car, churning your butter. They may not learn much about broadcasting, but they're definitely getting information from life. David Epstein, one more time in New York. I know this will sound apocryphal, but it's absolutely true. In my high school English class, we were assigned Moby Dick. I read Call Me Ishmael and closed the book. My friend Matt Fox read even less than that. Then came the pop quiz. Matt got the highest score in the class. I was second. I guess I was starbucked. Who was Ahab? But I'm not sure because, you know, I never read the book. Just heard Aaron Rodgers got married. Do they make bark? Wedding cake. Regards, dg. If you're out on your bike Tank, everyone is always to wear white.

[Brian Windhorst]

How much weight do you think I could bench press? Just make a guess.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Ballpark figure.

[Katie DeMartini]

Didn't want to talk again he didn't want to talk I feel so familiar when he's blowing me off to lie say we'll never talk again and end up caught in the m. Middle of nothing I just said we never talk again Cuz I don't want to be the only one that's holding on to something to me tonight Wonder what he thought of me if he saw something and somebody nothing like me and I know that she yeah, I know that she doesn't even mean to be the reason that I mean to to that I mean to me Even if she didn't mean it I mean to yeah, I mean to me I don't want to talk again and I don't want to eat I don't want to see myself the way to see something set me off again it cuts right down the middle of me and I know that she yeah, I know that she doesn't even mean to be the reason that I mean to that I mean to Even if she didn't mean it I mean to yeah, I mean to mean does he know that she's the reason that I I mean to that I mean to me Even if she didn't mean it I mean to you I mean to me I mean to I mean to don't mean to be But I so mean to leave you I don't so mean to be the so mean to me she doesn't even mean to be the reason.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I mean.

[Katie DeMartini]

To me if she didn't mean it I mean to yeah I mean to mean Cause we know that she's the reason that I mean to that I mean to me Even if she didn't mean it.

[Amazon Prime]

I don't want to quit.

[Katie DeMartini]

F nothing really matters when the fell slips I don't want to feel like paint a face on just to fake it I don't want to waste this 17 is nothing like this it is it's so downhill from here I want something real in me time I compare it what it seems like Blame it all the time with the wild flying lift Our silver linings I want something genuine it feels mine I'll never fit into the posterior tight simple in the sidelines headlines Blinded love can never feel When I try to find it Candy moments never make it past the closing Hard to know their motives Every time I open they be broken broken so downhill from here I want something real in the meantime I compare it but it seems what it is like Blame it all the time Find it.