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- [00:00]
Tony Kornheiser
Hey, it's Tony. On today's show, we'll talk about the stunning news of Nico Harrison getting fired. I mean, who could have seen that coming? We'll also get football picks from Chuck Todd and Reginald the monkey. And we will chat with Jeff Passon about the latest gambling scandal to hit baseball. But first, commerce. Avoiding your unfinished home projects because you're not sure where to start. Thumbtack knows Holmes. So you don't have to. Don't know the difference between matte paint finish and satin or what that clunking sound from your dryer is. With thumbtack, you don't have to be a home pro. You just have to hire one. You can hire top rated pros, see price estimates and read reviews all on the app download today.
- [00:37]
Michael Wilbon
Mint is still $15 a month for premium wireless.
- [00:40]
Jeff Passon
And if you haven't made the switch.
- [00:41]
Tony Kornheiser
Yet, here are 15 reasons why you should. One, it's $15 a month. Two, seriously, it's $15 a month. Three, no big contracts. Four, I use it. Five, my mom uses it.
- [00:53]
Michael Wilbon
Are you playing me off? That's what's happening, right?
- [00:56]
Chuck Todd
Okay, give it a try. @mintmobile.com, slash switch.
- [00:59]
Tony Kornheiser
Upfront payment of 45 for 3 month plan. 15 per month equivalent required. New customer offer first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. C mint mobile.com previously on the Tony Kornheiser show.
- [01:14]
Michael Wilbon
Was the career round from making a couple of birdies or just double avoidance?
- [01:18]
Tony Kornheiser
No, he birdied seven and he birdied 16.
- [01:21]
Chuck Todd
Nice.
- [01:22]
Tony Kornheiser
And he'd never done that before. And he's a wonderful guy and so was very good.
- [01:26]
Michael Wilbon
And it didn't rain on you.
- [01:27]
Tony Kornheiser
No, it did not. And it was very good to do that. And then I went inside and I did that thing I like best at Columbia Turkey club, I had a turkey bacon club sandwich. That's a win. And they're just so happy. This is general George Washington and you're listening to the Tony Kornheiser. Alrighty. If there is a headline in sports today, it was actually yesterday. It's not today. There's the follow ups today. It said Nico Harrison got fired. The terrible general manager of the Dallas Mavericks who made the worst trade, the most insane trade I think ever in the NBA where he traded away Luka Doncic, a great player and a fan favorite coming out of an appearance in the finals. In the NBA finals. Traded him for Anthony Davis, a fine player who's always hurt. Who's always hurt. Anthony Davis, Derisive nickname is street clothes because he's always hurt Anthony Davis. It's the worst trade ever and he should have been fired on the spot. It's a letter from Larry Shoemaker in Kansas City, Missouri. I just saw this headline on espn, Mavericks fire general manager Nico Harrison. And I immediately thought, Yeah, I believe Mr. Toney had that. Legendary sportswriter, television star, podcaster, urban dictionary influencer and fortune teller. Is there anything you can't do? I can't swim. I'm not a good swimmer.
- [02:49]
Michael Wilbon
Stander.
- [02:50]
Tony Kornheiser
I stand in the pool. So let me just get to Nico Harrison. Wilbourne attempted tepidly to defend Nico. He likes Nico Harrison. He knew Nico Harrison when he worked at Nike, and he likes him. And so he didn't want him to get fired. And he tried to blame the owner and he called the owner a billionaire bully. I don't even know who the owner is. Right. I don't know if it's a family ownership, if it's single person out there. And. And did they have to approve the trade? Of course they did. Of course they had to approve the trade. Do they get blame? Yes, they get blame, but they're not going to fire themselves. More blame. Unless you can tell me that the ownership initiated this trade and said to the general manager, here's what we want to do. And there's no evidence of that. None. Zero. And if that didn't happen, Nico Harrison made an insane, terrible trade. Should have been fired last year. Why was he fired this year? Well, a few reasons. One, Luka Doncic with the Lakers without LeBron playing a single minute so far this year. Not. Not a minute hasn't played. Luka Doncic has the Lakers at 8 and 3. Lakers aren't a very good team. They're actually not as good a team as Dallas, all things considered. That's all Luca. That 8 and 3 is all Luca. Dallas is 3 and 8. Two of Dallas's losses are to the abysmal New Orleans Pelicans and the even worse Washington Wizards, whose combined record, not counting those two wins, is 1 and 18. Dallas lost to these teams. Dallas is 3 and 8 there. They stink. And every night in the arena, there are chance to go fire Nico. Everybody wants him fired. And then attendance began to go down. And the answer to all your questions is money. When people don't show up and you lose money, you can count the money you've lost. You have to make a change. So the owner issued a statement, fired Nico Harrison and issued a statement, which to me is cowardly. Get out there and you know and take the questions.
- [05:04]
Michael Wilbon
Well, he sat courtside next to a fan.
- [05:05]
Tony Kornheiser
He did. Who was wearing, apparently wearing, a Luca jersey. Luke, you cannot make this trade. This is the Knicks trading Willis Reed. You can't make this trade. This is the Bullets trading West on. So I can't do it be like.
- [05:20]
Nigel
Trading Mookie Betts for Alex Verdugo.
- [05:23]
Tony Kornheiser
Well, yeah, if Mookie Bets is beloved as he was. Yeah. So this is an awful, awful trade. And Nico Harrison should have been fired the day he made the trade, and the. And Dallas should have run to try to negate the trade, you know, and to. To blame the owner. No, no. Unless, again, the owner initiated this, which I don't believe to be the case. You know, the. The specter of this trade hangs over the Dallas franchise like the sword of Damocles. You know, it's just. It's just awful, and they cannot escape it. And that's why I believe. And Wilburn believes as well, we believe the NBA fixed the lottery so that Dallas would get Cooper Flag in an attempt to make up for this terrible trade by Nico Harrison. No. And Cooper Flagg, is he good? He's fine. Is he great? Not yet. He's 18 years old. Not yet. Great. Is he going to be great? Maybe. Maybe. But Luka Doncic was great there and is great now and terrible trade and should have been fired. So, I mean, that's my position, which I've also stated a hundred times on the PTI show. You know, as Wilburn blames ownership, I mean, you know, Wilm even thought that it was a good trade at one point, that Dallas was ready to win, and maybe they would have been if Kyrie Irving wasn't hurt and Anthony Davis wasn't hurt. But they're hurt, and they're always hurt and they're getting older and there's, you know, there's nothing on that team at the moment. So that's my speech about that. And now I have something that will surprise the people I am with, because neither Michael nor Nigel has heard about.
- [07:00]
Michael Wilbon
I'm surprised you gave the NBA those seven minutes just now.
- [07:02]
Tony Kornheiser
I gave Nico Harrison's firing the deserved firing of Nico Harrison. And other people, you know, they chanted, fire Nico. Most people, by the way, don't even know the name of the general manager in the team that. Whose seats they're sitting. They don't even know who the guy is. All right, so I got a house in Delaware, had it for a long time. And it is a house. That is the energy in the house. Is supplied by propane, not by electricity, but by propane. And I buy the propane. The propane is supplied to me by a company in Milford, Delaware, called Sherman Heating oils. Very nice company. Had no problem with them at all. In fact, when you call them, a live human being answers the phone.
- [07:45]
Michael Wilbon
Sounds like Hank Hill.
- [07:46]
Tony Kornheiser
You know, you're not in.
- [07:47]
Michael Wilbon
You don't pay into propane accessories.
- [07:49]
Tony Kornheiser
You don't get offshore. You're not offshore. Somebody answers the phone in Milford, Delaware. The last five, six, eight, ten years, in my recollection, Sherman oil has offered, sometime around Labor Day, offered people the chance to buy the propane that they're going to need to approximate the propane they're going to need over the winter to buy it and to lock in a price per gallon. Now, I don't know what the price is, and I'm sure it fluctuates. I'm sure it. I'm sure it does. But let's just say for argument's sake, it's $2 a gallon.
- [08:23]
Michael Wilbon
Let's never trust market price on the menu.
- [08:26]
Tony Kornheiser
Okay? So, okay, right. Because it's going to be higher than you think. So let's say it's $2 a gallon. They say you can lock it in. And I've done this six, eight, ten years in a row. You check the records, I've done this. I get these letters, I write them back, I tell them, give me X amount of gallons at this price, and I send them a check. I prepay. That's what you're supposed to do, to prepay. It's not something that is, you know, in the forefront of my consciousness, But I am aware that this happens, and I'm aware that I have done this. Well, this year. I didn't do it. I didn't do it because I didn't get the letter. But I didn't even know that I didn't get the letter or the offer because it's not right. Top of mind.
- [09:08]
Nigel
Yeah.
- [09:08]
Tony Kornheiser
It's on your radar. I don't know this. So how did I find out? Well, I got a bill from Sherman gas the other day, Sherman heating oils, for like, let's say it's $350. It doesn't matter what it is. The point is, that was the trigger mechanism for me. And I went, whoa. I. I never. This never happens to me because I prepay. So that comes rushing back in a flood of memories. So I call Sherman and I say, well, I'd like to take advantage of the thing that I have done for six eight, 10 years. And I am told by the manager there, after being told by someone under the manager there, no, no, you didn't take advantage of it when it happened. I said, I didn't get the letter. I didn't get it. I said, I do it every year. I would have done it again. Check the records. And they say, well, we mailed the letter. And I said, okay, this is a standoff. I understand this mail delivery isn't the best in the world. You know, most of the things you get, you get, but sometimes you don't. And so I said, well, you didn't send me a follow up letter and we don't do that. Okay, well, can I get this now? No. We have pre sold all of our propane at that price and now you're going to have to do what the rest of the people do. So my question to Michael and to Nigel is this. I believe that good customer service includes the recognition of good customers.
- [10:42]
Nigel
Yes.
- [10:42]
Tony Kornheiser
And if you have been a good customer and you have without fail done this thing for X amount of years in a row, I believe a follow up letter or a phone call, they have my phone number, they have my address. I believe they should have reached out to me and said, is there any reason you're not doing this? At which point I would have said, I didn't get the letter. I'm happy to do it. I've done it before. And they said, you've frozen out. Now. What do you think? What's the right ending to this?
- [11:11]
Michael Wilbon
Well, you are frozen out. So what I would ask first is over these last six to eight years, have you checked your actual usage and see have I actually made out on this? This was a good purchase at the.
- [11:20]
Tony Kornheiser
Beginning of the year, almost every year.
- [11:23]
Nigel
Okay.
- [11:23]
Tony Kornheiser
I have underestimated what I'm going to use, but not by a lot. Not by a lot. And I've had to pay additional fees, let's say in April and May for some final propane deliveries. It has been. I don't know how to answer your question. Has it been good for me? I assume it has, but I don't know because I don't. I don't sit there and check the price of propane on a daily basis.
- [11:45]
Michael Wilbon
Yeah. Based on where you live. I would try and do some research to see if they actually sent the letter because I'm getting the sense that they've been losing money on this just based on how much growth there has been in that pocket of Delaware. And I'm suspicious that they ever even gave you or your zip code or your neighborhood that offer just because they might be looking at, say, the average home price sold and valuation. Just say, you know what, we can actually squeeze these guys for a little extra because we can see how much this area has grown over the last 20 years.
- [12:13]
Tony Kornheiser
I will say that I've had, you know, not only no problems with them, I have enjoyed my relationship with Sherman Oil, but I'm, you know, I don't know. What do you think? I don't know what to do. I think I'm gonna. What to do. I'm gonna pay.
- [12:25]
Nigel
Of course you're gonna pay. Good customer service. If it got went up the chain of command, I feel like the, the manager ultimately responsible should have looked at your record and said, you know, he's a long standing customer. Yeah. Don't know how this happened. Sorry about it. But you know what?
- [12:41]
Tony Kornheiser
But we'll give him a, we'll give him a fixed price now.
- [12:43]
Nigel
Yeah.
- [12:44]
Tony Kornheiser
And we'll let him pay it now.
- [12:45]
Nigel
Maybe you pay one month, you know, at the, at the rate.
- [12:49]
Tony Kornheiser
Yeah.
- [12:49]
Nigel
But then say, okay, but we'll lock you in for the other thing because you're a customer of long time standing and we appreciate that.
- [12:54]
Tony Kornheiser
This is what I think companies should do. I think that there should be.
- [12:57]
Chuck Todd
Sure.
- [12:57]
Michael Wilbon
But you're thinking about something that's a static price or there's a static supply of it. I mean, this is like when you think about going in that family road trip and the price of gas changes throughout the season based on the actual formula of it. But also how many people are getting out on the road and driving. They were sitting there going, we actually don't have this anymore.
- [13:12]
Nigel
There is a solution. You could buy the company and have everyone fired.
- [13:19]
Tony Kornheiser
I don't know. I mean, I just, I would have felt, I didn't feel there was any warmth.
- [13:24]
Jeff Passon
That's the thing.
- [13:24]
Nigel
It's like you're five seconds late. Nope, nope. The door's locked. You can't get in.
- [13:28]
Tony Kornheiser
You know, I'm a long standing customer who they've never had to go after, you know, because he didn't pay. It's not been that. It's not been that. So anyway, that's. I mean, I guess I don't know if it happens to everybody, but this seems common. This seems like a common right.
- [13:49]
Michael Wilbon
And to your, to your argument, this is still early enough in the season where it's not like the heat's been running.
- [13:54]
Tony Kornheiser
This would be.
- [13:54]
Michael Wilbon
Hey, he went on the first time last week. I just noticed this. Normally I have this system in place.
- [13:59]
Tony Kornheiser
Yeah.
- [13:59]
Michael Wilbon
Can we come up with a solution? And maybe it's a few cents more per gallon or whatever it is, but there. There should be a way to. To walk it back versus, hey, it's already the zero. February. Can we go back and reset this from the start?
- [14:11]
Tony Kornheiser
Yeah. So, yeah, I'm. Because I saw it right away. So with the first bill. And I just think if there is a Mr. Sherman that Mr. Sherman should call, it's a. And say, let's make this right.
- [14:20]
Nigel
It's a lot.
- [14:21]
Tony Kornheiser
You give a little and we'll give a little.
- [14:22]
Nigel
It's a larger issue with customer service in general.
- [14:25]
Tony Kornheiser
Yes. It just doesn't. When you call customer service and again, you end up in. In India.
- [14:30]
Nigel
Yeah.
- [14:31]
Tony Kornheiser
You know, and you go, well, how's this going to work? Are you familiar with where I live? You're not?
- [14:36]
Nigel
No.
- [14:36]
Tony Kornheiser
You know, so, I mean, I believe in small businesses. I believe in local businesses. I do all of that stuff. But in this case, yeah, I would have liked something a little warmer.
- [14:46]
Michael Wilbon
Yeah. It's this tough situation because they would sit there by having no response by you. That is your turning down.
- [14:51]
Tony Kornheiser
And I, you know, I understand that. So that's why I'm looking for that middle ground, you know, which we don't have in politics anymore. I'm looking for that middle ground where we can both. You give a little. Both give a little.
- [15:02]
Michael Wilbon
Well, and to that point, maybe there is this, you know, this pre holiday reminder saying, we see that you're part of this group that did not. There's a new price because we are later in the season, but we want to make sure that you have not totally missed out.
- [15:14]
Tony Kornheiser
That's exactly, exactly what I think customer service should be. Yeah. You know, maybe they'll hire. We have looked at our records. You're not with us this year. Is something wrong? That's all you got to do. And I would say, well, I didn't. I didn't get it.
- [15:27]
Michael Wilbon
Looks like the boys can't light that gas fireplace.
- [15:30]
Tony Kornheiser
No, we have it.
- [15:31]
Nigel
Put another sweater kit.
- [15:32]
Tony Kornheiser
It's just more expensive. It's just more expensive than I wanted it to be. We'll take a break. Chuck Todd, when we return, will pick some games for us. I'm Tony Kornheiser. This is the Tony Kornheiser Show. Have you ever awakened in the middle of the night wondering how vulnerable my home could be? If you have Simplisafe, you wouldn't have to wonder anymore. Just ask Nigel. He's trusted. SimpliSafe for six years now. Old school security systems only react after someone breaks in. But SimpliSafe can stop a break in before it happens. Its Active Guard Outdoor Protection uses AI powered cameras to detect threats outside and alert trained security agents immediately. Those agents can confront intruders, trigger sirens, spotlights, notify police even if you're not home. With no long term contracts, no hidden fees and a 60 day money back guarantee, it's no wonder U.S. news and World Report has named SimpliSafe the best home security system five years running. Don't miss out on SimpliSafe's biggest sale of the year, 60% off. Right now, our listeners can save 60% on a SimpliSafe home security system@simplisafe.com Tony that's simplisafe.com Tony there's no safe like SimpliSafe. This episode is brought to you by Netflix from the creator of Homeland. Claire Danes and Matthew Rhys star in the new Net Netflix series the Beast in Me as ruthless rivals whose shared darkness will set them on a collision course with fatal consequences. The Beast in Me is a riveting psychological cat and mouse story about guilt, justice and doubt. You will not want to miss this. The Beast in Me launches November 13, only on Netflix. You're listening to the Tony Kornheiser Show. The Tony Kornheiser Show. This is Gus Gustofferson, who writes. My name is Gus Kostofferson. I'm an indie folk musician currently making noise, mostly the good kind, out here in St. John's Newfoundland, Canada. I've been a little since the 90s. I was just a teenager in rural Alberta watching you on tsn, which used to carry us.
- [17:33]
Nigel
Oh, that's right, the sports network.
- [17:35]
Tony Kornheiser
And the moment you waved a Canadian flag at the end of the show, that was it. You instantly won me over. Nearly 30 years later, I'm still listening, still laughing, still living in Canada. Part of what gave me the nudge to rekindle my musical life, recording and releasing my songs, was your jingle segment. The fact that you give space to independent artists and celebrate creativity so joyfully. It really meant something to me. So here I am sending over some of my first releases. Isn't this nice? It's lovely. And this is. What is the name of this song again? This.
- [18:01]
Nigel
Rock and roll.
- [18:02]
Tony Kornheiser
Yeah. And he said it would be pretty wild to think that a kid who discovered you on TSN is now sending songs your way from the edge of North America. But that's the magic of music. And the TK Show Isn't it connecting surprising places far and wide? Isn't that nice?
- [18:16]
Nigel
He wrote me and Bobby McGee, didn't he?
- [18:18]
Tony Kornheiser
That was Chris Christopher.
- [18:19]
Chuck Todd
Okay.
- [18:20]
Tony Kornheiser
Yes, but Gus Gustofferson is ours. We're very happy. And he plays in Chuck Todd. Chuck had a four and three week. But there are two games that I want to talk about. Chuck is now 34 and 36. Mount 500 is within sight, but has been for quite some time. First of all, you lost the last game. You lost Green Bay. And I just wonder, did you bet that as a fan or did you.
- [18:46]
Chuck Todd
Yeah, no, I did. I did. It was, it was what should happen. I have to tell you, if the packers had an owner, LaFleur would be in the hot seat.
- [18:56]
Tony Kornheiser
Yeah.
- [18:57]
Jeff Passon
And he was. He's.
- [18:58]
Chuck Todd
He is. The offense is regressed and he. It's his offense, you know, and, and I'm a. When it comes to Jordan Love, look, I don't know if Jordan Love is. I don't think he's Farver Rogers.
- [19:12]
Tony Kornheiser
No, he's. He's at best above average. He's not correct.
- [19:15]
Chuck Todd
He's Philip Rivers and I say that that's no disrespect.
- [19:18]
Tony Kornheiser
Philip Rivers, who's going to get hall of Fame votes?
- [19:21]
Chuck Todd
Philip Rivers, you know, and, and who, you know, probably, you know, multiple times was two games away from a Super Bowl.
- [19:27]
Tony Kornheiser
Right.
- [19:27]
Chuck Todd
Would get his team in the playoffs.
- [19:29]
Tony Kornheiser
Right.
- [19:29]
Chuck Todd
And.
- [19:30]
Jeff Passon
But you sort of need, you know.
- [19:32]
Chuck Todd
About, you know it. But I know who the play caller is and a Jordan Love.
- [19:36]
Tony Kornheiser
That's right.
- [19:37]
Chuck Todd
And it is, it, it is, it's. It's atrocious. You have a defense as good as the packers have been.
- [19:45]
Tony Kornheiser
39 points allowed in their three losses. They should have won all three.
- [19:51]
Chuck Todd
All three. The three losses in the tie are all by a field goal or less.
- [19:55]
Tony Kornheiser
Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, you know, let me get to the other game you lost because I have the other game.
- [20:02]
Chuck Todd
The overtime. The Berlin game.
- [20:03]
Tony Kornheiser
Yes. So this is what I want to get to. Atlanta is getting six and a half against.
- [20:10]
Chuck Todd
Are you aware that that line changed? I have. Nigel sent me. This is one of those. Were like three minutes before you guys call. Hey, by the way, a line change. That game went from five and a half to six of that.
- [20:21]
Tony Kornheiser
Okay, so it's six and a half. Who do they play? Who? Indianapolis. Indianapolis scores very late to send it into overtime. Apparently on the first possession was Atlanta and they did not score. And then Indianapolis scores. They scored touchdown. So they have a six point lead. They are not allowed to try an Extra point, the game is over at the score. So if you, if you have given six and a half, you lose, which is what happened to you. You lost that game. Is that fair? Every other time when there's a touchdown, you were entitled to a conversion attempt.
- [21:00]
Chuck Todd
That's the rule. It's always been the rule. It's not the first time I've lost games that way.
- [21:05]
Tony Kornheiser
So you're not bitter about that as I would be?
- [21:08]
Chuck Todd
No, it's, it's, it, it is the rule. It is fun now in overtime to think about how you can now have as many as 15 points scored in an overtime.
- [21:20]
Tony Kornheiser
Right.
- [21:20]
Chuck Todd
Because you will. You know, when we almost had that, we had 13 points in an overtime earlier this year where both teams traded touchdowns and then the team that scored the second touchdown decided to go for two to win the game rather than.
- [21:33]
Tony Kornheiser
Tie the game so that it could be, I would say 17.
- [21:38]
Jeff Passon
It used to be, it used to.
- [21:39]
Chuck Todd
Be that you never had a shot in overtime when you had a, when you needed seven.
- [21:45]
Tony Kornheiser
Right.
- [21:45]
Chuck Todd
At least now you, at least there's a, there's at least a remote chance if you've got a, if you've got a cover of six and a half, you can get seven points in an overtime.
- [21:55]
Tony Kornheiser
So, so you lose that game too. That was.
- [21:58]
Chuck Todd
I did, I did. It was a, that one, that one was a tough one. The Packer game. I'm not going to get caught picking against the packers when my son is listening, especially the game against the Eagles. He would just harass me so badly.
- [22:11]
Tony Kornheiser
All right.
- [22:11]
Chuck Todd
So bad.
- [22:12]
Tony Kornheiser
I understand that. By the way, the easiest game on the board last week, and I mentioned it at the time, was Detroit giving whatever they gave playing Washington. You knew that was a lock.
- [22:24]
Nigel
That was a close game, wasn't it?
- [22:25]
Tony Kornheiser
No, that was a clock. So let's go to Washington this week. First game, Washington.
- [22:30]
Chuck Todd
Did you catch the new play by play guy on that Washington game?
- [22:33]
Tony Kornheiser
Who was it?
- [22:36]
Chuck Todd
The 47th President, United States.
- [22:38]
Tony Kornheiser
Oh, well, I saw him in the booth with Kenny Albert and I didn't know who Kenny.
- [22:43]
Chuck Todd
He called the touchdown.
- [22:44]
Tony Kornheiser
Did he?
- [22:46]
Jeff Passon
Yes.
- [22:47]
Tony Kornheiser
He seemed to be enjoying himself, especially since he can say, why don't you name this after me and we'll get it built in an hour. In an hour.
- [22:54]
Chuck Todd
I always say, you never know. You know, I feel like, you know, when he's telling the truth and as he left the booth he says, you know, I really would, I really want your job. To Kenny Albert, you're like, you know what, I believe him. Yeah, I believe Him, I believe he'd love to have that job.
- [23:08]
Tony Kornheiser
That sounds like fun. Well, again, who's having the most fun every day in America? Donald Trump and Jerry Jones. They're having the most fun.
- [23:14]
Chuck Todd
You. That's a. You are. Donald Trump's bad days are still good days to him.
- [23:20]
Jeff Passon
You're right.
- [23:21]
Tony Kornheiser
Yeah. All right. Washington now is out of the country. They have been expelled from the country. They have to play in Madrid.
- [23:29]
Chuck Todd
They're playing much better European game.
- [23:31]
Jeff Passon
Right.
- [23:32]
Chuck Todd
We didn't send our best this time.
- [23:35]
Tony Kornheiser
So they're playing Miami and I, I understand Jaden Daniels is not going to play, but the notion that Washington is getting two and a half stunned me a little bit because Miami stinks. They're a bad team. Yes, they won last week, but they are a bad team. And I was surprised at this. Will you take Washington with the two and a half and a second string quarterback?
- [23:59]
Jeff Passon
Why do you think.
- [23:59]
Chuck Todd
I mean, you say Miami's a bad team.
- [24:02]
Tony Kornheiser
Yeah.
- [24:03]
Chuck Todd
Every other game they seem to score 30, they lose. That's every other day.
- [24:08]
Tony Kornheiser
Yeah, they, I just, I have no, there is no consistency to them in my mind except badness and to throws. I think he's leading the league in interceptions, I think.
- [24:19]
Jeff Passon
Yeah.
- [24:20]
Chuck Todd
So no, their offense was competent for about 2/4 last week.
- [24:25]
Tony Kornheiser
Yeah.
- [24:25]
Chuck Todd
By the way, imagine you're the Central New York or Western New York Syracuse alum who said, this is great. I'm going to fly down to Miami, I'm going to catch Miami Syracuse on Saturday and I'm going to catch Miami Buffalo on Sunday.
- [24:37]
Tony Kornheiser
Yeah.
- [24:38]
Chuck Todd
You didn't have a good day?
- [24:39]
Tony Kornheiser
No.
- [24:40]
Chuck Todd
Good weekend? No, both games.
- [24:43]
Tony Kornheiser
But you saw, but you saw Rob Stronick who tried to do both those things, which was nice.
- [24:47]
Jeff Passon
He did.
- [24:48]
Chuck Todd
It was. He was, he is living the good life.
- [24:50]
Tony Kornheiser
Yeah.
- [24:51]
Chuck Todd
That is a good. And it's, and it's nice to.
- [24:53]
Nigel
It does lead the league in interception 13. Geno Smith with 12 just behind him.
- [24:59]
Tony Kornheiser
Okay. Yeah, go ahead.
- [25:01]
Chuck Todd
I'm going to take, I'm going to take the commanders because I, it's more about. The Dolphins seem to lay an egg every other game.
- [25:09]
Tony Kornheiser
Okay.
- [25:10]
Chuck Todd
And they, there's, you know, they won their big game against Buffalo. I say they lay the egg here.
- [25:16]
Tony Kornheiser
All right. Speaking of Buffalo, the next game is Tampa Bay at Buffalo. Buffalo had an inexplicably terrible loss. That was the loss to Miami. They were down 16 nothing at the half. It had been, I don't know, 20 years since they hadn't scored at all in the first half. They go back home I think needing to win.
- [25:35]
Chuck Todd
I think that was the first NFL. It was something like. I think. Didn't they say it was the first team? There was something. It was something. It was more than just Buffalo. It had been two years since they'd scored. And there was something else. I thought it was. I was shocked at how little. There was another stat in there that was just stunning, but I forgot it.
- [25:54]
Tony Kornheiser
Well, if it's about lack of scoring, it couldn't have been as bad as the Philadelphia game. You know, the other night with Green Bay.00 at the half, where you go, what's the game? Why am I watching this?
- [26:04]
Chuck Todd
First 00 in over a year.
- [26:07]
Tony Kornheiser
Why am I watching that? Yeah, it's garbage. Anyway. Tampa Bay has fallen down a little bit. Baker Mayfield has nobody to throw to. They are in close games. They lost, I think two in a row. They may be in a need position here. Buffalo is definitely in a need position here. Tampa Bay getting five and a half at Buffalo and.
- [26:29]
Chuck Todd
And the. The weather has turned. Yeah, this is not going to be an easy, easy game for. For Tampa, for the warm boys from Florida. Jimmy, Buffalo.
- [26:40]
Tony Kornheiser
Okay, Cincinnati. Cincinnati, who scoring a lot of points with Joe Flacco but not winning, actually scored 78 points in two games and went 02.78 points and went 02 last.
- [26:57]
Chuck Todd
Year with Burrow, didn't they?
- [26:59]
Tony Kornheiser
Yes, they did.
- [26:59]
Chuck Todd
They were losing games.
- [27:00]
Jeff Passon
41, 38.
- [27:02]
Tony Kornheiser
Yeah, it would get 30. His average points was 36. And they lost it.
- [27:07]
Chuck Todd
This is a former Miami head coach. Who's their defensive coordinator? Al Golden.
- [27:12]
Tony Kornheiser
I know that name.
- [27:13]
Chuck Todd
Defensive coordinate. Yeah. He was Notre Dame's defensive coordinator last year. He was Miami's head coach in the 15 to 18, something like that. Before Mark Richt. Yeah. Not the greatest debut for him.
- [27:29]
Tony Kornheiser
No. Cincinnati at Pittsburgh, division game. Pittsburgh. I think a need game for Pittsburgh. I really do. Because Baltimore, they can hear and smell Baltimore coming at this point at Pittsburgh giving five and a half. Will you take the five and a half?
- [27:46]
Chuck Todd
I am going to take the points.
- [27:48]
Tony Kornheiser
Okay.
- [27:48]
Chuck Todd
This is a field. This is a field goal game. This is a. You know, Rodgers will be happy to be facing that defense. It'll make him feel good. Yeah, but that's a field goal game. You can feel that.
- [28:00]
Tony Kornheiser
The Los Angeles Chargers, who won a game the other day, Los Angeles Chargers are at Jacksonville. If you look at as I do at Jordan, Love. And you say, you know what, he's not special. You got to say the same thing about Trevor Lawrence. Thought he would be special. He's not. This is Fourth or fifth year. He's not special. The Chargers are a road favorite giving two and a half at Jacksonville.
- [28:27]
Chuck Todd
I don't understand why the Chargers are favored here. Could you explain why they're favored?
- [28:34]
Tony Kornheiser
I assume that they've won something like two of their last three games and Jacksonville keeps finding ways to lose.
- [28:42]
Chuck Todd
I hear you, but this is cross country. Anyway, I, perhaps I'm missing something here, but give me the home.
- [28:48]
Tony Kornheiser
Doc, you're going to take Jacksonville.
- [28:50]
Jeff Passon
Yeah.
- [28:50]
Tony Kornheiser
Okay.
- [28:51]
Chuck Todd
Well, the Chargers are kind of like Jacksonville, right? Both teams. Just when you think you have you. You're like, oh, maybe they are.
- [28:59]
Tony Kornheiser
They're not. You know, they don't.
- [29:00]
Chuck Todd
They tell you. They tell you who they are.
- [29:02]
Tony Kornheiser
You know, they are the exact same team as Pittsburgh where they don't really pass the eye test. It doesn't matter how many games they win. They don't really pass the eye test. Okay, here's the first of three games that we're giving you. Three great games. Games that anybody would want to see. The first is Seattle.
- [29:19]
Chuck Todd
Of games. This is.
- [29:20]
Tony Kornheiser
Yeah.
- [29:20]
Chuck Todd
This is what makes the weekend, these games.
- [29:22]
Tony Kornheiser
Yeah. Seattle is at the Rams. They are the two best teams in the NFC West. They score a lot of points. They don't give up a lot of points. Seattle, Sam Darnold is making them a very, very good team. They crushed Arizona last week, but Arizona stinks. The Rams had a more impressive win because they beat San Francisco at San Francisco after losing to them at L. A. This is at L. A where you don't really have a great home field advantage. And Seattle, to my surprise, is getting three and a half. That's more than I thought they would give.
- [29:54]
Chuck Todd
Yeah.
- [29:55]
Tony Kornheiser
Who you got?
- [29:56]
Chuck Todd
Get right. Get.
- [29:57]
Tony Kornheiser
Yes. Seattle is getting three and a half. It's more than I thought.
- [30:01]
Chuck Todd
And they're begging you to take Seattle.
- [30:03]
Tony Kornheiser
Yeah.
- [30:04]
Chuck Todd
Which scares me a little bit. But when you look at the four, right, the two offenses and the two defenses, I think the best unit is Seattle's defense.
- [30:16]
Tony Kornheiser
It's very good.
- [30:17]
Chuck Todd
Yeah. So. And defense usually travel. So give me Seattle and Seattle plus.
- [30:23]
Tony Kornheiser
Three and a half. Here's another one. Kansas City is at Denver. Kansas City is two games behind Denver. This, this is the all in game for Kansas City in my mind. I mean, I'm not saying they said this, but this seems to me the all in game for them. It's at Denver. Kansas City is the. I, I find this hard to believe. Denver's 8 and 2. They find ways to win. And Kansas City is giving three and a half on the road. That's a hard one for me. Right.
- [30:53]
Jeff Passon
I don't think so.
- [30:54]
Chuck Todd
Isn't that like everybody knows that Denver's kind of a. Yeah. I don't want to say a fraud.
- [31:00]
Tony Kornheiser
So, you know, you have Denver sort of like New England. Right. Where it's good. Big record. But you're not sure.
- [31:05]
Jeff Passon
I don't.
- [31:06]
Chuck Todd
I actually feel like New England. I'm a little bit. Because, I mean, it wouldn't be a close call for me if you said Drake May or Bo Nicks.
- [31:14]
Tony Kornheiser
Right.
- [31:15]
Chuck Todd
I wouldn't even hesitate. It's Drake May. Right?
- [31:17]
Tony Kornheiser
Right at the moment. Yep.
- [31:19]
Chuck Todd
Yeah. But that Denver defense and home field advantage does mean a little something. But I'm with you. Kansas City has to have it. And. And they still seem like they're capable of saying, yeah, we got to have this game. So we're just going to have this game. Like they're not, you know, they're still good enough to flip a switch. Give me. This is one. If you told me it was a route, it wouldn't shock that, you know, Kansas City sort of showing who's boss. Oh, you think you're going to win this division? Let me. Let's show you what this is really like.
- [31:52]
Tony Kornheiser
Okay.
- [31:52]
Chuck Todd
There's like to me, a small chance that they win big.
- [31:55]
Tony Kornheiser
Okay. And the last game is a fabulous game. It's the Sunday night game, Detroit at Philadelphia. Detroit has. Whenever Detroit has lost, they have come back and won the next week. They did that last week against Washington. Philadelphia is not a great team, but they are a dependable team. Philadelphia, there's effort there all the time, defense and offense. Not flashy on offense. If Saquon Barkley is held down, they don't really have that much. Jalen Hurts is a fine, competent quarterback, but not a star quarterback. But if you look over the last X amount of years, then they win a lot of games and the only thing they have to combat is a loon for a head coach who in a three point game on fourth and sixth with 33 seconds to go goes for it. What? What? So in this game, Detroit is getting two and a half. Little surprising, but it's under three. It's under three. Who you got?
- [32:54]
Chuck Todd
Who would you have? Who would you take? Jalen Hurts or Jordan Love? You were starting a team.
- [33:02]
Tony Kornheiser
If their ages were the same and all of that. I think I.
- [33:06]
Chuck Todd
By the way, their ages are the same.
- [33:08]
Tony Kornheiser
Oh, is that right?
- [33:09]
Chuck Todd
Both were rookie. Both rookies in the same year. Jordan Love was drafted in 20. So was Hertz.
- [33:14]
Tony Kornheiser
I would take her End of the.
- [33:15]
Chuck Todd
First round, Hertz at the top of the second.
- [33:17]
Tony Kornheiser
I would take Hertz because I think he accomplishes more. I, you know, I don't. He can't throw a deep ball and all of that, but I look at what he's done, and I think his accomplishments are greater. I would take him. Who would you take?
- [33:30]
Jeff Passon
I.
- [33:31]
Chuck Todd
If I keep. I kept wishing Jordan Love would run like Hertz, and I'm convinced had they had more rush design, that they would have won runs would have won. That they would have won that game. Yeah. So I think right now, I mean, one's won a Super bowl, one hasn't. So I think the. The answer is pretty clear.
- [33:51]
Tony Kornheiser
And by the way, Jordan Love is big and strong, and it's not like Jaden Daniels. He can run. You know, he can run.
- [33:57]
Chuck Todd
No, they just choose. They choose not to do that. Yeah. It's just not part of the playbook. And I feel like Philly just finds ways to win here. But, you know, it may be that we're missing something here in Detroit and that the weirdest game of the year we're going might look back and say, when Green Bay beat Detroit, Detroit wasn't ready for game one.
- [34:24]
Tony Kornheiser
It's possible.
- [34:25]
Chuck Todd
Yeah. And they may have. So I've just confused you here. Give me. To. Give me Detroit in the points.
- [34:30]
Tony Kornheiser
You'll take Detroit in points. So I would say the Green Bay, Carolina game is just. You go, what. How did. How did that happen? I mean, and also Buffalo, obviously. Miami. Buffalo. But the Green Bay game was in Lambeau, right? That was in Lambo.
- [34:51]
Chuck Todd
Yeah.
- [34:51]
Tony Kornheiser
And they lost.
- [34:52]
Chuck Todd
Like I said, you know, there's this stat out there that. About that Packer fans quietly share with each other. LaFleur, I think, is in his seventh or eighth year. And if you look at most super bowl winning coaches, they win in their first six years.
- [35:08]
Tony Kornheiser
Is that right?
- [35:09]
Chuck Todd
Rarely.
- [35:09]
Jeff Passon
It.
- [35:10]
Chuck Todd
You never. You rarely see a coach.
- [35:12]
Tony Kornheiser
Well, Andy Reid didn't.
- [35:14]
Chuck Todd
Right. He's like the big exception.
- [35:16]
Tony Kornheiser
Okay. All right.
- [35:17]
Jeff Passon
It's.
- [35:17]
Chuck Todd
It's one of those. And at least he took a team.
- [35:20]
Tony Kornheiser
He did.
- [35:20]
Chuck Todd
You know, he did take one of those Eagles teams to super bowl, but it was an interesting set. And you look and it's sort of like if you can't do it after year seven, six or seven, are you going to do it now? A lot of times owners don't have patience. Right. It's not like you give coaches that long. Right. You won't give them six or seven years very often. But the packers, because they don't have an owner.
- [35:43]
Tony Kornheiser
That's right.
- [35:43]
Chuck Todd
Always give coaches that long. So, yeah, I'm starting to have my doubts about Mr. LaFleur.
- [35:49]
Tony Kornheiser
So. LaFleur, of course, and McVeigh and Shanahan all worked together in Washington. None of them were head coaches at the time. None of them. Because Jay Gruden was the head coach. Okay. All right. Thank you, Chuck.
- [36:06]
Chuck Todd
Bye, guys.
- [36:07]
Tony Kornheiser
Chuck Todd, boys and girls. And if we just gave you Chuck Todd, that would be enough. It'd be more than enough. It would be great. But we give you a monkey. See the monkey, he scritch, scritch scratching.
- [36:16]
Nigel
Watching his iPad Smoking and laughing Hanging.
- [36:19]
Tony Kornheiser
With Bud Grant Tap, tap, tapping on his purple attache Nigel's going to the zoo, zoo, zoo Reginald's got the fight Spy, too.
- [36:29]
Jeff Passon
Sometimes he throws boo, boo, boo Benny's.
- [36:32]
Chuck Todd
Had too much Johnny Walker Blue.
- [36:35]
Tony Kornheiser
Reginald had a good week. Reginald was 2:1. Reginald was 12 and 18 overall. It's the worst of our four people and non people who.
- [36:43]
Nigel
But he's the best monkey.
- [36:44]
Tony Kornheiser
He is the best monkey, but 2 and 1 is not bad. If a few more 2 and ones he can get up there.
- [36:49]
Nigel
Yeah, he needs to string some winks together, you know, get back to close to Mount 500.
- [36:54]
Tony Kornheiser
Excuse me.
- [36:54]
Nigel
So I went down to the National Zoo last night, and I was very lucky. I caught up with Reginald just as he was finishing up an interview with the Dallas Mavericks for the GM position.
- [37:04]
Tony Kornheiser
Is that right?
- [37:05]
Nigel
Yes.
- [37:05]
Tony Kornheiser
Now, to be better than Nico.
- [37:06]
Nigel
Apparently, they only asked him one question, and that question was, are there any circumstances under which you would have traded Luka Doncic for any reason whatsoever? He said no. He said, you just made the final list.
- [37:17]
Tony Kornheiser
Okay, there you go.
- [37:18]
Nigel
So, yeah, so he was very happy to go over these matches with me after that. The first one we gave him was the Washington football team getting 2½ in Madrid against the Miami Dolphins. Red pulled out of his wallet a very old photograph showing him eating paella with Don Shuler, Mercury Morris and Larry Zonka. That tells me Miami, he's got ties to Spain and Miami. So Miami love the Dolphins holiday in Spain. Yes, exactly. The next match we gave him was the Chargers on the road giving two and a half to the Jaguars. And Reginald showed me a little picture of him on one of those trips. You know, where you heard cattle, I think was the Billy Crystal movie City Slickers.
- [38:01]
Tony Kornheiser
Oh, yeah, yeah.
- [38:02]
Nigel
Well, he was doing this, and he was. His riding mates were Dan Fout, Charlie Joyner and Lance Allworth.
- [38:08]
Tony Kornheiser
So he's going charges he's going charges. Going San Diego charges, but he's going charges.
- [38:12]
Nigel
San Diego superchargers. Yeah. Minus two and a half. And the last match we gave him was the Seahawks getting three and a half on the road at the Rams. And this was just a lovely picture he showed me of Reginald rolling down the Imperial highway with the top down, the Beach Boys cranking and a big nasty redhead by his side.
- [38:29]
Tony Kornheiser
Yeah, it's that Randy Newman fixation. He's going to take the LA Rams.
- [38:32]
Nigel
Yes.
- [38:33]
Tony Kornheiser
All right, that's good. We're good. We will come back, Jeff Passon when we return. I'm Tony Kornheiser. You're listening to the Tony Kornheiser Show.
- [38:47]
Gus Gustofferson
We all got together to hang out by the lake Stayed up all night to help our friend bend his.
- [39:02]
Tony Kornheiser
This one more time is Gus Gustofferson. Not Kris Kristofferson, Gus Gustofferson. All the way from Newfoundland. St. John's Newfoundland, Canada. This is called La La La La.
- [39:13]
Michael Wilbon
Sounds like a little capo, too.
- [39:15]
Tony Kornheiser
I like this. I like this, Michael. If independent artists like Gus Gustofferson want to send in their music to be played on the show, how do they do?
- [39:23]
Michael Wilbon
Send us your music by emailing it to Jingles at Tony konizer show.com and.
- [39:28]
Tony Kornheiser
He plays in Jeff Passon. And we're going to talk about a story. The two pitchers who have been charged with cheating, with actually defrauding the public because they have allegedly agreed to throw pitchers wildly if they could in order for people to win prop bets. What? And Jeff's been on this story and it's, It's. I'm not going to say that it's a story that is not getting its due, but I don't think people truly understand it because I don't truly understand it. What are these two fellows charged with?
- [40:11]
Jeff Passon
They have four different charges and it's a variety of conspiracies. Conspiracy for bribery, conspiracy for fraud. The maximum sentence, if they are all added up and convicted, would be 65 years. And Tony, I think you're right. This is alarming. It's alarming because it gets to the integrity of the entire sports industry.
- [40:41]
Tony Kornheiser
Yes.
- [40:41]
Jeff Passon
Right.
- [40:42]
Tony Kornheiser
Yes.
- [40:43]
Jeff Passon
The reason we love sports is because when we watch the games, we believe they're competition. And if there's anything that chips away at that idea, it turns into professional wrestling, which I, you know, I love watching WWE with my child. I also know that everything is scripted and that as wonderful as the athleticism is, the outcome is predetermined. And the beauty of Sports is that regardless of who's playing, if everything's on the up and up, the outcome is not predetermined. The outcome is going to play out in front of our very eyes. That's why we love it, that's why we're obsessed with it. And integrity in sports is the most important thing. It's paramount to their existence. And in this case, what? Emmanuel Clase, who by the way is one of the best closers baseball and a guy who only the rest of.
- [41:38]
Tony Kornheiser
His career is going to make hundreds of millions of dollars.
- [41:41]
Jeff Passon
Yeah, he was. He was. That's exactly right, Tony. He going to make 100 million plus dollars in his career. Luis Ortiz, the other one, maybe not so much, you know, he was, he was a talented guy, but maybe more of an up and down type. Regardless, what they allegedly did was conspired with betters back in the Dominican Republic. Friends to place. Yeah, friends there to. To place bets on individual pitches. So let's say hypothetically Emmanuel Classic comes into a game and the first pitch that he throw a ball, you can bet on that. You can bet whether it's going to be a strike or a ball slash hit by pitch. And they would take that and parlay it at times with other prop bets like how fast is this pitch going to be? So what the government is alleging in the 23 page complaint is that Emmanuel Classe would discuss with these betters what he was going to throw beforehand. They would place the appropriate bets and they would win money. And on class A pitches that started back In May of 2023, all the way through this year, 400,000 plus dollars allegedly was made. And Luis Ortiz joined in the scheme in June. On June 15 and June 27, the two pitches that got flagged by betting integrity firms and really started this all and $60,000 was made on those.
- [43:09]
Tony Kornheiser
Okay, let me get to a series of questions that everybody would want answered. They are each represented by separate lawyers. What do their lawyers say in their defense?
- [43:21]
Jeff Passon
Both of their lawyers have said that their clients are innocent. Luis Ortiz is going to be arraigned Wednesday and Emmanuel Classe is expected to be arraigned on Thursday. Beyond that, there's not a whole lot at this point in their defense.
- [43:37]
Tony Kornheiser
So what I read a couple of days ago was never, ever, they would never do this. Class, they would never ever do this. It's completely ridiculous. Okay, what has baseball done so far?
- [43:50]
Jeff Passon
MLB back in early July when this betting integrity firm, iC360 reached out to a sportsbook and said, hey, there are some Irregularities in the betting patterns here. And the sportsbooks reached out to MLB and MLB immediately launched an investigation because I think MLB understands just how dangerous something like this is. If, if it does not go, if there is not punishment involved, if there is guilt and there is no punishment, then you're essentially saying that the integrity of your sport doesn't matter. And for a sport like Major League Baseball that already draws a significant amount of criticism for its handling of the Astros cheating scandal in 2017, you know, not taking away the championship, no players being disciplined, I think MLB understands that integrity is something that it does need to be hard on.
- [44:48]
Tony Kornheiser
So didn't, didn't they not suspend, but didn't they remove both these pitchers from the active roster?
- [44:54]
Jeff Passon
Yes, both of them were put on non disciplinary paid leave is what it was called. So they did not pitch for the remainder of the season. It started off with Ortiz and class A later was brought into that toward the end of July.
- [45:10]
Tony Kornheiser
Okay.
- [45:11]
Jeff Passon
And I asked Rob Manfred.
- [45:16]
Tony Kornheiser
Yeah, this is what I was going to ask you. Has Rob Manfred said anything publicly about this? Publicly?
- [45:21]
Jeff Passon
Yes. Yeah, he, you know, he put out a statement after the sportsbooks agreed in the wake of this to limit single pitch prop bets to $200 as opposed to the thousands and tens of thousands of times that were being wagered here. But at the World Series, I asked him just point blank, don't you think it's hypocritical to be in business which Major League Baseball and which all professional sports now, to be in business with gambling companies when gambling companies are. The proliferation of gambling is putting your sport at such risk. And I understand his answer, his answer was we didn't make these laws. We didn't make these laws that took gambling, something that had been regulated for the entirety of our lives outside of Las Vegas and made it legal in dozens of states and really opened up this Pandora's box. And it wasn't him skirting the question. That's a truth, that's a reality. And the reason he said that they are partners with these companies is because these gambling companies are the ones that are doing the kinds of investigations and flagging bets that don't make a whole lot of sense or are a little bit off or odd. And that might be ultimately, Tony, the best way beyond just getting rid of legalized sports gambling. And I don't know that the toothpaste can be put back in.
- [47:03]
Tony Kornheiser
No, you're not getting rid of legalized. You're not doing that. You know, nobody is thinking that that's going to Happen. It leads me to this comment to make, which is sort of kind of a question. And this is based on watching Bob Costas last night on television. Television. And Bob, who loves baseball and hates this, also said, now they're not throwing games like we like to use the word integrity. The integrity of the sport, the integrity of the game. It's a very minor. If it's a one pitch deal, it's a minor thing. It's not the integrity of the entire game, which is not to say that it won't get to that point down the road. But at the moment it's not. At the moment it's a pitch here or a pitch there. And the notion of 65 years in jail for somebody like me, I would say, well, I don't know that I want to put these people in jail at all. It is fraud. There is no question it's fraud. There's no question it's fixing a part of a game, but to me, it's not fixing the whole game. How do you feel about that?
- [48:05]
Jeff Passon
You know, I answered this question on ESPN.com yesterday and I hate to get super nerdy with you here, but we now know we have statistics that tell us what the difference is when hitters face a 01 count versus a 1o count. The numbers are significantly better for hitters after they are up one ball, no strikes, as opposed to down, no balls, one strike. So, yeah, I get exactly what you're saying because you're right, it's one pitch, it's one pitch, what's the big deal? But I think looking at those numbers just illustrates that even one pitch, there is a difference. And if there's any demonstrable difference to me between what our expectations are of fair sport and of, you know, again, the word integrity, we can parse that all kinds of ways. But if there is any difference between what we are expecting of athletes and what they're delivering, it's. It's just something that long term, if we don't address it now, don't address it harshly and don't make athletes understand that you're at the risk of losing everything for even something as silly as one pitch, then it just opens up a lane for them to walk into and say, well, if I get, you know, if it was, if I did one pitch, then why can't I do two?
- [49:37]
Tony Kornheiser
Yeah, no, I get all of that. What I wonder about, and this is the existential question, and we don't have an answer to this, it's one thing to throw a first pitch to begin an inning. It's another thing to throw a first pitch when you're called in from the bullpen to stop something going on in the middle of an inning. Is there any reason to believe or any of these charges about a first pitch in that kind of situation?
- [50:05]
Jeff Passon
You know, the complaint did not lay.
- [50:07]
Chuck Todd
Out the full scope, but you would.
- [50:09]
Jeff Passon
Agree that that class A, you know, was alleged to.
- [50:13]
Tony Kornheiser
And that's just. That's, you know, a frivolous question. But. What. What.
- [50:17]
Jeff Passon
It's not for. It's. It's not frivolous. Tony, I appreciate you wanting to talk about this because there are no frivolities in this situation. We need to be talking about this. We need to understand it better. We need sports fans to be pissed about this.
- [50:29]
Tony Kornheiser
I think they probably are. Other than Wilbon, who said it didn't matter, and I just looked at him and I said, what are you talking about? What do you think? It seems to me that the likely outcome here is that neither of these fellows will ever pitch another pitch in the major leagues.
- [50:46]
Jeff Passon
I. I think that is a. With, with all of the evidence that we've seen so far, I think that is a very reasonable thing to say. Now, Major League Baseball often will wait until the end of an investigation by authorities to render judgment, but in this case, certainly if MLB feels like it has enough evidence to essentially ban Emanuel Classe and Luis Ortiz in the same way that it did to Capita Marcano, the San Diego Padres infielder, last year, if it feels like it has enough evidence, enough evidence to hold up, if this were to be appealed, they will do that.
- [51:32]
Tony Kornheiser
That's, you know, that.
- [51:33]
Jeff Passon
I think that. I think it is. I think it is reasonable to say at this point that that looks like the likeliest outcome. But, you know, look, when. When Klasse and Ortiz's lawyers say they are innocent, you know, the. The American justice system until proven guilty, I'm.
- [51:51]
Tony Kornheiser
Yeah, I'm with that. But there's this. There's a. There is a corollary question here. There are two trains going down two separate tracks, but the tracks are the same size. And the corollary question is how does baseball and basketball. How do they rationalize the relationships that they have with betting after all these years of not having it? How do they rationalize this and how do they keep going with it? And they're not going to get rid of prop bets that they're not. They may modify them. They're not getting rid of. How do they. How does Manfred. How does Silver they. I'M not saying they're at fault here, but they're driving the same train just down a parallel track.
- [52:33]
Jeff Passon
I think even if you were not partners with sportsbooks, there could be some kind of monetary exchange where you say, you guys need to look out for us in this situation. But professionals, professional sports leagues do not need to partner with gambling companies.
- [52:49]
Tony Kornheiser
Well, they did.
- [52:51]
Jeff Passon
They do. They sure did. Yeah, they sure did. And I fear, Tony, that that is one of a number of exacerbating elements to this. And to me, the biggest issue of all goes beyond the games on the field and goes to a generation of kids. And I promised myself I would never turn into the what about the kids guy. But, you know, you have children yourself, you see things. Thankfully, my child knows that I am a terrible gambler and do not gamble accordingly. But there are a lot, Tony, I'm telling you, there are a lot of teenagers, a lot, who already, before their 18th birthday, have gambling problems because of the pervasiveness and how easily accessible gambling apps are now.
- [53:40]
Tony Kornheiser
Yeah, any dope can go out there and do this and then just hit their parents up for money and figure. So. So what I'm asking is, yes, you said before you can't put the toothpaste back into we can and legalize gambling. And by the way, I would support the notion of legalized gambling. I mean, I don't gamble myself, but I'm not sure that that should be restricted fully. Where do we go from here in sports? How do we, how do we proceed? Seed? Because if guys get. Are making $100 million are doing this to be, to help their friends, you know, and they don't even understand the risk involved. How are we going to stop this?
- [54:21]
Jeff Passon
I think it would take a very brave commissioner to say that we are full stop, not going to be involved with this. And we don't believe that it is right for our sport or for sports, period. But I think the likelier outcome is a BR politician who goes and tries to, whether it's at the state level or at the federal level, trying to, Trying to cascade down into states, somebody who points out all of the things that this is causing all of the ripple effects and says, enough's enough. We made a mistake. We thought it was a good idea. It turns out we can't control it, and let's undo this mistake before it gets even worse.
- [55:07]
Tony Kornheiser
Yeah, I don't see that. I mean, me, I don't, I don't see that happening, but I don't. I also don't see, I think If I think if commissioners are strong and owners are strong, I. I can see where we will have this less frequently than we fear, because we fear we're going to have it all the time. Right. We fear that.
- [55:29]
Jeff Passon
You know what, though, Tony? Let's put it this way. It wasn't until the bets that were placed on Luis Ortiz's pitches that anybody knew anything about. Oh, yeah, because they started doing this two years ago.
- [55:39]
Tony Kornheiser
Hundreds of years like here. All you have to do is instruct the people you're trying to help. Don't do this on your phone. Don't do it on your phone because it goes into a data bank and everybody can find out what's going on. Go back to a bookie. But who knows if you know, it's just a very interesting story. And it's not that I don't think it's getting its due. It's that I think we sort of wave our hands at it and say, well. Well, how do you say stop it? How do you stop it? So, because it's hard for me to believe they can just do away with all prop bets, maybe, as you're saying, lower the max amount of money that you can put on it. Maybe that's it.
- [56:18]
Nigel
Right.
- [56:19]
Jeff Passon
I don't know that that helps. But if, you know, you put together a good enough scheme and you get enough people involved.
- [56:26]
Tony Kornheiser
Yeah.
- [56:26]
Jeff Passon
A lot of. A lot of people doing 200 bets can turn into real money.
- [56:32]
Tony Kornheiser
Yeah. If people can take Jules out of the Louvre, they can certainly, certainly throw a breaking ball on strike one. If somebody's betting on it, it's just weird. Jeff, thank you as always. Thank you. I mean, it's a very good story. Thank you.
- [56:48]
Jeff Passon
I appreciate you, Tony. Thanks for having me.
- [56:50]
Tony Kornheiser
Jeff Passon, boys and girls. We will take a break. We will come back with email and jingle. I'm Tony Kornheiser. You're listening to the Tony Kornheiser show.
- [57:02]
Nigel
1, 2, 3, 4.
- [57:03]
Tony Kornheiser
Here comes Tony's mailbag.
- [57:06]
Gus Gustofferson
Got your email, faxes and your notes.
- [57:10]
Tony Kornheiser
Here comes Mr. Tony's mailbag. Gonna read some for all of you folks. It's very lovely. Greg Rosendahl and Lindsey Merrill. It's very lovely. You want to do the Bethesda bagel ad, please?
- [57:20]
Nigel
Yes. Bethesda Bagels. We love them. You will as well. Just go to BethesdaBaggles.com for the location in the DC area nearest you. Then pop on in and you'll be thrilled.
- [57:27]
Tony Kornheiser
And before we get to the mailbag, let me just say everybody's talking at me I don't hear a word they're saying Only the echoes of my mind People stop and stare and I can't see their faces Only the shadows of their eyes that is Everybody's Talking. It's by Nielsen. He did not write that song. But he sang that song.
- [57:43]
Nigel
Oh, I didn't know he didn't.
- [57:43]
Tony Kornheiser
And everybody knows it from the Dustin Hoffman movie.
- [57:45]
Nigel
Yeah. Midnight Cowboy.
- [57:46]
Tony Kornheiser
Midnight Cowboy. Everybody knows that. Thanks to our guest today, Chuck Todd. You have passing thanks as well to today's sponsors. Remember, you can listen to us on Apple podcasts, Spotify and ought to see if you get show through Apple. Please leave us a review.
- [57:58]
Michael Wilbon
Big news tonight.
- [57:59]
Tony Kornheiser
Oh, the Binghamton game.
- [58:00]
Michael Wilbon
Binghamton Bearcats visiting the undefeated.
- [58:03]
Tony Kornheiser
Yeah.
- [58:03]
Nigel
How many points are you giving?
- [58:05]
Tony Kornheiser
We're not giving. I think we should be getting 28 and a half. I do. 28 and a half to 30.
- [58:09]
Nigel
We check that.
- [58:11]
Tony Kornheiser
You know, we got to get a lot of points. We can't really beat Georgetown.
- [58:16]
Michael Wilbon
It's just they're in the same gym.
- [58:17]
Nigel
Georgetown just beat Maryland. It was a nice win.
- [58:19]
Tony Kornheiser
And beat him badly. Yeah, beat him badly. All right. From Austin Blake in South Scottsdale, Arizona. Long time, no email, but I'm back, and this time with a request that doesn't include telling my family to eat it for enduring Maine winters while Wilbon and I soak up the Arizona sun. Although maybe his is different in North Scottsdale than mine is in South Scottsdale. I'm graduating, graduating with my PhD in accounting from Arizona State University this spring. I'm currently applying for tenure track faculty positions at universities across the country. I just received a letter, a request for a letter of reference from Binghamton University. Please, Mr. Toney, if you could write or at least mention on the air how writing semi witty emails every few years qualifies me to be an assistant professor of accounting, I would greatly appreciate it does. Yeah. It's the only qualification that person needs. Yes. But I have the line for you, Austin, we're for you. I'm gonna say 24 and a half.
- [59:11]
Nigel
Very close. 25 and a half.
- [59:13]
Tony Kornheiser
Okay. That's, you know, you're right on that. You have your bookie. Yeah. Oh, no, I don't want to do that. Kyle. In Colorado, I was naturally delighted to hear another podcast make a passing reference to flushing the mouse. Naturally, it reminded me of my own recent bathroom debacle. Or we'll call flush the toothpaste. I was rushing to get ready, gave the toilet bowl a quick flush, and in my haste managed to to knock the toothpaste tube right into the bowl. I watched in slow motion as it spiraled down the drain, much like the Washington commander season after that improbable Week 6 loss to the Bears, a plumber and his apprentice came by later and went fishing with a long metal pole tipped with a sharp spring. After a few heroic jabs, the plumber pulled it out, the toothpaste perfectly speared through the middle like a toothpick through a blue cheese olive. The two of them celebrated like they had just won game seven. The energy was palpable. So if you or any luck littles ever find yourselves accidentally flushing another mouse, I know a guy who can help. By the way, I got a letter from George Melay who found a mouse and flushed it. Yes, a tiny little mouse. Found it in the toilet. Yeah, and flushed it.
- [60:11]
Nigel
Well, what are you going to do?
- [60:12]
Chuck Todd
You know?
- [60:14]
Tony Kornheiser
From Buck Beltzer in Denver, Colorado Captain Grandpa, A lot of listeners write about how they bond with their fathers by listening to and discussing your show. Well, my father has never listened to your show, but he is from Grand Island, Nebraska, which as you know, is also the hometown of Jolene Wojic. I usually let my father know about Jolene's latest Masters trips, but last Friday he turned the tables. He texts me that he's watching a Nebraska women's volleyball game on TV and Jolene is sitting in the front row behind the end line. After many texts back and forth and short glimpses of that part of the crowd, we align on which one is Jolene? Even though Jolene is officially a little as a Masters ticket holder, she's a big in my book, which makes this a David Aldridge moment. Let's read to Jolene and please tell my fraternity brother Justin Kazana to eat it. Isn't that great? That's if that was Jolene.
- [60:57]
Nigel
Yeah.
- [60:57]
Michael Wilbon
That's fantastic.
- [61:00]
Tony Kornheiser
Okay. This is from Tony Beeson. It's long. It's from Tony Beeson. It's a two pager on Friday show. My friend and fellow Little Michael Ritz wrote in to share a story about John Pachoric, Tom's older brother who played in exactly one game, went 3 for 3 achieving a career a perfect thousand career batting average. I have another story. More local as Cincinnati Louis Red Lutz was a local kid who made good and became a third string backup catcher for the Cincinnati Reds in 1922. It's over 100 years ago. His job was to warm up pitchers in bullpen and act as an emergency backup in case one of the other two catchers were injured. The emergency never need I'm sorry, I'm reading badly. The emergency need never materialized, and thus Red's time with the Reds was limited to just two games, sort of, but from an online article posted by the Society of American Baseball Research During a game in the 1922 season, Cincinnati Reds second baseman Lou Fonseca raced back to catch a pop fly in short right field. The right fielder also raced in. The two collided, knocking each other dizzy. Seeing the ball lying on the field with the runners circling, the basis was too much for Red Lutz, the Reds bullpen catcher, to take. He raced in from the bullpen, picked up the ball and threw a perfect strike to nail the runner at third. There was just one problem. Red Lutz was not officially in the game at that time. After the dust settled, the base runner was awarded home by the umpire and the Red faced Lutz returned to the bullpen. In his only official 1922 game appearance, Red was inserted into the 9th inning of a blowout loss to the Pirates. Red had won at bat, but he took advantage of it, smacking a double to cement his place in baseball lore alongside John Pachoric and a few others who finished their careers with a.1000 career batting average. From Tony Beeson From Elaine Caffrey in Duluth, Georgia to quote Arch Campbell regarding Kornheiser's emails. Didn't read them. Don't want to read them. That's the ones at espn. Yes, millions. I may have millions. I don't know. Sammy Ray Henderson Waco, Texas I'm stepping out of my lane for a moment to address an important matter. It sounds like the new game is what oft used TK show phrase can we get in the Urban Dictionary? So I have an entry I'd like to submit. Hocus pocus junk Adjective or attributable Attributive noun origin Mikhail Will Bonya not from any one town, but generally the Midwest can travel at or around the speed of sound, but only to certain destinations. Pertains to analytics, especially sports and marketing departments. Example you think LeBron is a better basketball player than Michael Jordan because he's the all time leading scorer? That's a bunch of hocus pocus junk. Antonyms the 85 Bears text group chats with hall of Famers, women's stick sports at Northwestern and Tiger Woods Synonyms saying how you doing on a radio show? The golden at bat and the Chargers Seeing how long it took to get flush the mouse in. I'm not expecting this entry to get in anytime soon, but it not getting considered at all would be. Well, you know. Focus Junk junk. Oh this is so we have a note from George Mile. Oh, I got an email.
- [63:56]
Nigel
Okay.
- [63:56]
Tony Kornheiser
Oh yeah. So George Millay has written a note. I was surprised I to find a tiny mouse in the master bath toilet bowl. I suspect you know what happened next. And there's a drawing of the mouse going down the bowl. Mark Lynch, Camby, Indiana I'll be in Washington D.C. on Thursday. Wanted to let you know that I plan to arrive at your house about 8:45pm for the pacers. 9:00pm Tip off drink wise I prefer Dr. Pepper but I'll settle for vodka. From David Honstein well, it is that time of year again. The 122nd grade cup will be played on Sunday, November 16, 2025 in Winnipeg, Manitoba. The combatants this year will be the Montreal Alouettes versus the Saskatchewan Rough Riders. The Alouettes are four point dogs. I'm looking forward to Jason Locke and for his per game analysis. Thanks for all the good that you do. Isn't that nice? Love that from Bruce McNeil in Vienna, Virginia. The Wizards played a thrilling game versus the Pistons Friday night but lost in overtime. Now at 1:10 they need to go on a heater to get to 9 and 20. Not very good, but some are worse than us. Check that. Actually none are worse than us. You know, Loyal little forever since the days when you ranked the heads. Yeah, it's just so great. Clay Kennedy Louisville, Kentucky While in high school during the late 90s in Lexington, I heard a friend use the word cat in a new way while in conversation he replied responded to a particular sucky situation by saying that's cat. My mind was blown. I thought I was upon some cool new slang. Surely the entirety of youth culture was hip to this new year new use of the word cat. If something was extra lame, the seven of us in the know would call it cat. Behind. There's another word there but I'm not using right. Soon I found out that nobody outside the seven of us ever used cat. With the same extracurriculars learning this week, that flush the mouse has transcended the lexicon makes my 9th grade self smile. Maybe if we had a public access radio show back in the day from Rick Franzosa in Cincinnati. I've been a fan of Patty Larkin for more than 30 years. I saw her twice in Northern Kentucky, once in a concert tour called On a Winter's Night, which continues to this day. This year's featuring other artists on your show, Lucy Kaplanski and John Gorka Patty Larkin is also one of the amazing, most amazing guitarists I've ever seen. In the Attack song Banish Misfortune, she actually pushes on the back of the neck of the guitar to change notes at the end of a phrase. I've seen it live twice. She's also very funny. She has long curly red hair and in the meet and greet after our show, she was heard to say, buy my CD and I'll sign it for an extra five bucks. I'll sign it Bonnie Raitt. Doug from Clarksville, where they took the last train.
- [66:26]
Nigel
That's right, yes.
- [66:27]
Tony Kornheiser
I just had a dream that you and I decided to run a marathon. Let me know where and when you would like to start our training program. We can work around your podcast and PTI schedule. I'm not running a marathon. Not running.
- [66:37]
Michael Wilbon
You're not driving a marathon.
- [66:40]
Tony Kornheiser
From Barney Shapiro, retired king of DC Trash, the formerly actually paid trash man of the Tony Kornheiser Show. It's about Dominique Dawes and Caleb Williams. The diminutive Ms. Dawes was born in Silver Spring and raised in Tacoma. She attended Blair and Gaithersburg High School. So not a true Washingtonian. But of great note, her father was a trash man. Caleb Williams, born in Washington, D.C. went to Gonzaga, saw a true Washingtonian. James Wood, born in Rockville, raised in Rockville, initially went to St. John's but transferred to some Florida sports academy. So not a true Washingtonian. Emmanuel Burris, born and raised in Washington, went to Woodrow Wilson High School, which is now Jackson Reed High School. So a true Washingtonian, has multiple World Series rings and for a short while his father was a trash man. How about that? Remember the surfing bird by the Trash Man?
- [67:25]
Nigel
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [67:27]
Tony Kornheiser
From Robert Parsons in Charlotte, North Carolina, Enjoy every sandwich was a quote by Warren Zevon. Hope you enjoyed that turkey club and many more. Thanks for the laughs and hour of entertainment.
- [67:37]
Nigel
Do you know the, the significance of that quote? He was, I think it was on Letterman. He was dying and they did a whole show for him and Letterman's like, do you have any words of wisdom? And he said, enjoy every sandwich.
- [67:47]
Tony Kornheiser
So I do. I enjoy that sandwich every time I get it. And every time I'm in Colombia ordering a sandwich or ordering lunch, that's what I get.
- [67:57]
Michael Wilbon
You eat the fries on the way home.
- [67:58]
Tony Kornheiser
I ate the fries. No, I eat the fries first. I eat the fries first and then I eat the sandwich. Makes me very happy. Pat, Pat in Hedgeville, West Virginia on Wednesday night when you, Michael and Liz, take your three Masculine grandchildren to see. The Hoyas Battle of Bearcats. Does everyone get their own crust of bread or is it family style? That's funny. If you're out on your bike, Tyne, as always, do wear white. You want to talk real customers, kid, that's me.
- [68:21]
Chuck Todd
I'm like the mayor of Duncan.
- [68:22]
Tony Kornheiser
I go from bobblehead to revere.
- [69:05]
Gus Gustofferson
Well, I'm gonna let it out for you to see. Well I'm gonna scream and shout. That's the way it has to be. Because I got it figured out. And this can't be a secret between you and me. Oh, this rock and roll. This rock and roll. Oh, this rock and roll. It feels so good. Well we gonna let it out for you to say. And we're gonna scream and shout. That's the way it has to be. Cause we got it figured out. And this can't be a secret.
- [70:57]
Chuck Todd
Between.
- [70:57]
Gus Gustofferson
You, you and me. This rock and roll this rock and.
- [71:10]
Chuck Todd
Roll.
- [71:13]
Gus Gustofferson
This rock and roll and feel so good. For this rock, rock and roll it feels so good. This rock and roll it feels so good. Yeah, this rock and roll and feels so good. This rock it feels so good.
- [72:21]
Chuck Todd
Feel so good. Oh.
- [72:56]
Gus Gustofferson
It feels so good. This rock and roll it feels so cool. We all got together to hang out by the lake. Stayed up all night to help our friend mend his heartache. Sang some songs, kept the neighbors up all night and on the ride home he said he felt all right. The guys all came over.
- [73:48]
Chuck Todd
To watch.
- [73:49]
Gus Gustofferson
A football game that day the underdogs won we thought the game would end up the other way. We went to the bar.
- [74:01]
Chuck Todd
To keep.
- [74:02]
Gus Gustofferson
The party going on. Played pool and laughed until the night was gone. La la la. We sang all the time. La la la. Now what was our crime? La la la. This was our way. La la la. We sang every day. Flew out to the east coast we had a fire on the beach. Watched the sun go down and the stars come out and we had a shot of screech we drove around the bay the island has a lot of room to roam. The sign says no exit but assured you feel at home. Went over to Europe and had food in an old time pub. Met some fine folks and danced till dawn in a nightclub and walked on the cobblestones. I might have fell a time or two but people helped me up. Cause that's what fine folks do. La la la la. We sang every day. La la la la. This is our way. La la la la. Now what was our crime? La la la.
- [75:52]
Chuck Todd
Time.
- [75:54]
Gus Gustofferson
Looking back I just can't help but laugh at the good people in the great times came across my path now what's ahead I will never know but be damn sure the good times will grow. The front door is always open. Your friends are all here. The front door is always open. There's lots of nice be. The front door is always open. When you come in, we'll all cheer. The front door is always open. Your friends are all here.
- [77:09]
Chuck Todd
The front.
- [77:10]
Gus Gustofferson
Your door is always open. Your friends are all here.