“There and back again”

Summary

The Tony Kornheiser Show

Episode: "There and Back Again"
Date: February 2, 2026

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Episode Overview

In today’s episode, Tony returns from a week-long Florida golf trip, sharing humorous travel misadventures and reflections on escaping D.C.’s paralyzing winter weather. The hosts (Tony, Michael, Nigel, and Finn) banter about frigid conditions, clever weather terms (“snowcrete”), neighborly help, and the joys and perils of travel as a reluctant flier.
Interviews feature Michael Wilbon, who discusses the NFL Hall of Fame ballot (notably, Bill Belichick's snub), infamous kicker Cody Parkey, and the Winter Olympics. Sally Jenkins joins later to tackle rumors about the Washington Post sports section’s fate, the evolving world of sportswriting, and recent tennis developments.

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Key Discussion Points

1. Surviving the D.C. Winter & Tony’s Return from Florida

• Weather Talk & ‘Snowcrete’

  • The crew commiserate over D.C.’s recent snow and ice (“snowcrete”: snow topped with ice, making walking miserable), the difficulties shoveling, and how the city grinds to a halt.
  • Tony describes escaping to Florida during the storm, where even the tropics turned cold:
    • “It was a lot colder in Florida than people planned a vacation there for a year.” (Tony, 05:14)
    • “Iguanas falling out of trees and whatnot.” (Finn, 05:21)

• Neighborly Kindness

  • Finn is thanked for helping Tony create a backyard path during the snow so Tony’s dog could get outside:
    • “I want to thank Finn because pineapple came over late last night to clear out a path in the backyard… I’m grateful.” (Tony, 04:15)

• Travel & Tire Pressure Woes

  • Tony relates frustrations with cold-weather car warnings (“I have the thing on my car that says my tire pressure… does that have to do with the cold air?”), with Nigel offering advice (06:04).
  • Listeners share touching stories about neighbors helping each other shovel, underscoring the sense of community during storms (53:33).

2. Tony’s “There and Back Again” Travel Adventure

• Golf in Florida

  • Tony played multiple golf courses (Emerald Dunes, The Park, Seminole, Grove 23—the Michael Jordan-owned course), and teases future stories about encounters and course superintendents:
    • “We played Seminole with Chet Maxson, which I’m going to talk about later, a little bit with Wilbon, because of who I played with.” (Tony, 18:26)
    • “We played Grove 23, which is, of course, owned by Michael Jordan… He owns it.” (Tony, 18:46)
  • Hosts praise the course superintendent Greg Feniger, who wants to be the show’s “official retired golf course superintendent” (19:22).

• Reluctant Flyer Antics

  • Tony humorously details his anxiety flying, aided by pilot friends and strategic self-distraction.

  • Memorable Incident:

    • A flight attendant inadvertently spills water over Tony’s lap, making him preoccupied with drying his pants for the rest of the flight:
      • “As calm as I can be, and all of a sudden, I look down on my lap, and it’s filled with water.” (Tony, 15:30)
      • “Now the rest of the flight is fine. I’m not thinking about anything but drying my pants.” (Tony, 15:42)
      • “I say things like, these are $8,000 jeans. These are special. They’re one of a kind… they’re $40 Calvin Klein. Don’t worry about it.” (Tony, 16:09)
    • The team jokes about hiding embarrassing stains with jackets and Tony’s worry about being recognized with wet pants:
      • “The great fear is someone sees me. The front of my pants is soaking wet.” (Tony, 15:39)

  • Pilot Encounter

    • Tony meets his pilots in the security line, surprised by one’s youthful appearance (“he looks 15”). The pilot quips:
      • “‘Yeah, I borrowed this hat and shirt from my dad.’ Which is a great line.” (Tony, 12:36)
    • First officer Daniel (former Air Force football) writes to Tony post-flight, showing the show’s deep reach.

  • Takeaway:

    • The mishap ends up helping Tony cope with flight anxiety:
      • “Because the flight was early and this happened about 15, 20 minutes in—I was busy with it for 30 or 40 minutes—then… you’re in the glide pattern.” (Tony, 17:06)

3. Interview: Michael Wilbon (Starts ~23:53)

• Golf with Cody Parkey (the ‘Double Doink’ Kicker)

  • Tony played with Cody Parkey, prompting Wilbon to recall Parkey’s infamous missed kick for the Bears in 2018, a traumatic Chicago sports moment.

    • “There are two words associated for Chicago with Cody Parky. Double and doink.” (Wilbon, 24:34)

  • Reflections on sports scapegoats, compassion for athletes, and how fans often remember them primarily for a single moment:

    • “If you say double and doink, somebody may punch you in the face… But it’s not Bartman. It’s not close.” (Wilbon, 25:13; 27:19)

  • Wilbon describes texting former Bears kicker Robbie Gould after the game, only to find Gould was at Soldier Field, too:

    • “I get a text right back, and it says, ‘Yeah, I would believe you because I’m here. I’m walking out, too.’” (Wilbon, 29:18)

• NFL Hall of Fame Balloting Comedy/Tragedy

  • Both critique the NFL’s confusing, sometimes counterproductive Hall of Fame process (especially Belichick not being voted in):

    • “Isn’t part of that a function of the weirdness of the ballot?” (Tony, 31:37)
    • Wilbon explains voters sometimes pass up obvious names to save others from permanent elimination.

  • Tony’s stance:

    • “The only Hall of Fame that matters to me is the Baseball Hall of Fame.” (Tony, 33:47)

• Winter Olympics—Apathy and TV Spectacle

  • Wilbon expresses indifference (“Is there something you’re looking forward to in the Winter Olympics?”
    — “No, not a thing.” [Wilbon, 34:44])
  • Rants against judged sports and figure skating:
    • “If something can only be judged, I have a problem with it being in Olympic competition.” (Wilbon, 36:16)
  • Tony and Wilbon’s shared skepticism about the event’s TV-centric nature.

4. Interview: Sally Jenkins (~41:15)

• Washington Post Sports Section Turmoil

  • Sally reveals deep anxiety within the Washington Post sports staff, citing fears of layoffs and lack of communication:
    • “Most of my friends are bracing to be laid off in the middle of the Super Bowl and the Olympics.” (Sally, 41:15)
    • “They’re sitting around preparing to take it in the neck, even highly placed editors in the section.” (Sally, 41:43)
  • Speculates if management is “trotting out these rumors” to gauge backlash, but notes clear contraction under new publisher William Lewis.

• State of Modern Sportswriting

  • Sally and Tony mourn the loss of traditional career ladders and institutional gravitas:

    • “If you were 25 years old now, what would you aspire to? How does it work?” (Tony, 42:36)

  • Jenkins argues new outlets (The Athletic, Bleacher Report, Defector, The Atlantic) are thriving, but the craft now requires fluency in multimedia and digital platforms.

    • “You’re going to have to understand podcasting… social media platforms… make your own short video.” (Sally, 43:32)

  • Jenkins on credentialing and credibility in today’s landscape:

    • “It’s more democratic. Anybody can do it. But it’s hard sometimes…” (Tony, 44:28)
    • “They’re going to come from Vox, they’re going to come from Defector… the Free Press…” (Sally, 44:54)

  • The End of an Era Feel

    • Tony: “We get mentioned a lot, you and me and Wilbon and Boz and Kindred. It feels like we’re relics, you know.” (Tony, 46:55)
    • Sally: “Artifacts… Dust us off.” (Sally, 46:56)
    • Jenkins insists their audience is still huge, and that quality and story-telling have lasting value.

• Men’s Tennis: The New Hierarchy

  • Jenkins and Tony mourn the lack of depth at the top of the men’s game (Alcaraz, Sinner, Djokovic, “and one of them is 40”).

    • “Do you see Taylor Fritz or Alexander Zverev winning fourth and fifth sets? ... They’re just a click behind.” (Sally, 48:31)
    • “Alcaraz… is about 5% better than everybody else right now.” (Sally, 49:55)

  • In comparison, the women’s side is wide open—“There’s a new winner every week.” (Tony, 50:13)

• Belichick Snubbed by the Hall of Fame

  • Jenkins: “Oh, my God, what a travesty. You know, what a bunch of Percy mouthed, mean spirited… It’s the mean girls table at lunch.” (Sally, 50:55)
  • Reassurance that it’s “not the greatest tragedy in the world… it’s Madame Tussauds,” but the voters “embarrass themselves.” (Sally, 51:33)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Tony’s flight mishap:

  • “What is the great fear? The great fear is someone sees me. The front of my pants is soaking wet.” — Tony (15:39)

• On seeing young pilots:

  • “‘Yeah, I borrowed this hat and shirt from my dad,’ which is a great line.” — Tony (12:36)

• On office anxiety at the Washington Post:

  • “Most of my friends are bracing to be laid off in the middle of the Super Bowl and the Olympics.” — Sally Jenkins (41:15)

• On Hall of Fame contrivances:

  • “The only Hall of Fame that matters to me is the Baseball Hall of Fame.” — Tony (33:47)

• On the dwindling career ladder:

  • “There doesn’t seem to be a hierarchy set out there… It’s more democratic. Anybody can do it.” — Tony (44:28)

• On men’s tennis parity:

  • “Alcaraz… is about 5% better than everybody else right now.” — Sally (49:55)

• On judged Olympic sports:

  • “If something can only be judged, I have a problem with it being in Olympic competition.” — Michael Wilbon (36:16)

• On their own nostalgia:

  • “We get mentioned a lot, you and me and Wilbon and Boz and Kindred. It feels like we’re relics.” — Tony (46:55)
  • “Artifacts… Dust us off.” — Sally (46:56)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Tony returns from Florida & snow discussion: 01:15 – 08:05
• Travel anxieties, golf, and flight mishaps: 09:45 – 18:05
• Praise for golf course superintendents: 19:05 – 20:09
• Interview with Michael Wilbon: 23:53 – 37:38
• Interview with Sally Jenkins: 41:15 – 51:47
• Reflections on The Washington Post, sportswriting, tennis, and Hall of Fame: 42:36 – 51:42
• Show mailbag and close: 52:10 – show end

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Tone & Style

The episode is classic Kornheiser—warm, personal, irreverent, and filled with nostalgia and quick wit. The ongoing banter between Tony, Michael, Finn, and Nigel keeps things energetic, with guests providing insights tethered to long-running themes of sports, media, and change. The conversations range from deeply personal (flight fears, media layoffs) to playful (Publix sandwiches, pants mishaps), always returning to affection for storytelling and community.

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For listeners and non-listeners alike, this episode is a textbook example of TK Show camaraderie, storytelling, and the intersection of sports, memory, and media change.

Transcript

[Tony Kornheiser]

Hey, it's Tony. On today's show, I'll tell some stories from my trip to Florida. Plus we'll chat with Michael Wilbon about football hall of Fame and the Olympics. And Sally Jenkins calls in to talk about what's going on with the Washington Post sports section. But first, commerce. Avoiding your unfinished home projects because you're not sure where to start.

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[Tony Kornheiser]

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[Tony Kornheiser]

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[Sally Jenkins]

Previously on the Tony Kornheiser Show.

[Michael Wilbon]

I mean, you know, maybe early next week, to be honest. Like, you know, February, Groundhog Day, you know, I mean, I don't see anything this week.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I mean, you know, maybe we get close to 30, 32 later in the.

[Michael Wilbon]

Week, but there's no pronounced warmup that I can see in the long range at this point. Again, I've been so focused on this storm, I haven't looked much past, you know, 10 days.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So, you know, maybe it'll be a.

[Michael Wilbon]

Warm up after that.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I mean, it'd be unusual for it.

[Michael Wilbon]

Not to eventually thaw.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Well, eventually, that's, that's called may eventually.

[Sally Jenkins]

The Tony Korneiser show is on now.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That was Jason Salmonell for from over a week ago. That's right over a week ago. We're back, by the way. I'm back. I'm back in Washington. Back for more cash. Always back for more cash. Michael is here. Nigel is here. So the storm happened. I went to Florida. I went to Florida to play golf. And I played golf and I was staying at the house of the socialite Alan Bubis. My dear friend who could not have been a better host, a better friend, I mean, fabulous. Picked us up at the airport. This is a story we're not getting to today. But we didn't get in last week until 12:30 in the morning. That's another. That's not today's. We have a lot of travel stories, a lot of travel stories. But, but to concentrate on this, you heard the clip from Jason Samna that would warm up eventually. I was in the car yesterday and I called Kip Sheman and he said, I don't know, I don't know all month. I don't know all month. And he said, I know I like weather. I like big weather. I like big storms. But I don't like this. No. Who does? Nobody can move. Nobody can move. I was away from it. I will tell you.

[Nigel]

One way traffic on our streets.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. Everything that shrunk by one lane.

[Nigel]

Playing a game of chicken.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. It really is. It's really a weird thing. I don't have the dog. The dog is with her trainer. Because I can't walk the dog safely without falling down in this. I'm not telling anybody in Washington or other places of the northeast something that they don't already know. But there is a word to describe this. It's obviously a brand new word. Snow. Crete. Oh, I've never heard that. It's been invented in the last week or so.

[Finn]

Very appropriate.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Right. It's snow topped with ice.

[Finn]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

It's. You can't walk through it. Can't stand on it. It's just awful.

[Nigel]

Chip away at it.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. It's just really.

[Nigel]

I broke a sandwich trying to crack through.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Is that right now?

[Nigel]

Bent it. I don't think I could play in it.

[Finn]

But at one point I was using a saw to saw of pieces of ice to break.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So I. I don't look.

[Nigel]

So the snow totals were down versus what we feared.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yes.

[Nigel]

But the actual like the volume of how much moisture was on the ground compared to what it would be like if it was a really big snow. That's like why it's not going anywhere.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. And I believe it can't go anywhere if it stays in the 20s.

[Nigel]

We've got a powerful all the time early February sun.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Now, you know, I don't. I'm angle. Right. What if it doesn't look the piled up snow. Everybody's got pile ups. That's not getting out of here until April. Yeah. You know, April at the earliest. There's no chance.

[Nigel]

The north bethesda drifts. I saw those this weekend. You know, took the boys to the books.

[Tony Kornheiser]

April or May, it's like a matterhorn.

[Nigel]

Yes.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. And you can't walk on it. No, we got it bad. Didn't get it any worse than other places in the northeast or the Carolinas yesterday, Myrtle beach, they get 12 inches of snow.

[Finn]

Yeah, something like that.

[Tony Kornheiser]

And I read a story that. That every single county in north Carolina had snowfall.

[Nigel]

Low country dusting.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. It's just. It's just a lot of snow and it's everywhere. So I want to thank Finn because pineapple came over late last night to clear out a path in the backyard for me to clear something out. So that When I get Chessy home.

[Finn]

She'S got an area.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I can take Chessy into the backyard and see if she'll do the things that she has to do rather than do them in the house. And. But it's. So I'm grateful to the people at Pineapple. I'm grateful to Finn for coming over. I mean, those guys work constantly.

[Finn]

Oh, yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

You know, Finn is at the point. He hates snow, and Kevin now hates snow and ice.

[Finn]

If Kevin is against it, if we've lost Kevin, then the war is over.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That was really something.

[Finn]

Can I just say that Jason Samanow pretty much nailed it with what he told us.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Finn]

And the way it all played out, the way when the snow ended, when it turned out of the sleet and rain, when that eventually ended, I mean, it was still a bear to deal with, but he gave you the exact.

[Nigel]

Blueprint, the difference between a pro and a fearcaster.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So I will also tell you it was. Nobody cares about this. It was a lot colder in Florida than people.

[Nigel]

You brought the cold.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Who had planned a vacation there for a year.

[Finn]

Iguanas falling out of trees and whatnot.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yesterday it was under freezing in South Florida with a 30 mile.

[Nigel]

We were promised iguanas at the park. It was too cold for them.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I'm gonna. So I'm gonna talk about the golf trip. Not today. I'm gonna talk about. We played. I played golf for seven straight. I'm golfed out. I'm done. I'm glad I can't play here, you know, because I just can't play. I'm just tired of it. But it was. It was wonderful. By the way. This is just a general question for people and specifically for Michael and Nigel. I have the thing on my car that says my tire pressure. I have to check my tire pressure. I'm sort of assuming that has something to do with the cold air. And that will. That will right itself if I drive for a while. But it comes on every time.

[Nigel]

You'll get a little bit of pressure back. If it's really low, you'll have to put air in. But if you were to drive for 30, 45 minutes, you'd probably get some air back.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay. So that's. That's sort of what I figured. Got a nice note from Sam Ginsberg, who used to email us and write us all the time from Pittsburgh, a note about his. His recent life. He, you know, he sends one of those things about what happened over the year. I got one from Tamara. They're always lovely. Yeah, they're Very. My friend Marcus Roddy does one that literally makes me laugh out loud. It's a great skill when you talk about your year, when the tragedies in your year and the triumphs in your. Your year come out. And. And he said his son Sam's son Daniel is an enthusiastic listener. So we want to shout out to him his birthday was, you know, about a week and a half ago or something like that. Oh, happy birthday. A week ago. So, yeah. So that's very, very nice to Daniel. He also has a quote. He talked about the thing that we're doing. I hope we've stopped with astronauts. This is a John Glenn quote. It's a great quote. As I hurtled through space, one thought kept crossing my mind. Every part of this rocket was supplied by the lowest bidder. That's funny. That's a funny. So I had to do some things yesterday to.

[Michael Wilbon]

I had.

[Tony Kornheiser]

You know what happens when you go to CVS and you get, like, extra bucks, like, in the receipt?

[Finn]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

The receipts at cvs.

[Nigel]

You have to commit to the CVS ecosystem. And once you're in, you'll get a lot of coupons.

[Tony Kornheiser]

The receipt is, I don't know, three feet long.

[Finn]

You build a tent out of it.

[Tony Kornheiser]

It's unbelievable how long it is. But I found one that had $10. That's the big one. $10.

[Finn]

Well done.

[Tony Kornheiser]

But it expired today. So yesterday I went out, I went to a cvs, and Carol said, why don't you buy Valentine's Day candy? Now, Valentine's Day candy is the most overpriced stuff in the world. Yeah, I did. I bought Russell Stover Valentine's day candy, like 10 pieces for $21.

[Nigel]

Trinkflation.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Ridiculous. Ridiculous. But I got 10 bucks off, so I felt that. I felt it was okay.

[Nigel]

No, you. I thought you'd go for the good crest.

[Tony Kornheiser]

What? No, I didn't do that. I have enough crest at the moment. I thought Carol wanted the candy, so I got the candy. So I got it. That was good. So let me tell you. I'll tell you. I'll tell you a story. As I said, I was down in Florida for a week, and I played golf, and I did not drive. I did not rent a car. Alan offered me the use of his car, but I didn't. You know, I never drove it before. Michael drove it a few times, which was good. Drove me in it and was good. Michael was there for four or five days. And we will get to all of these things, although maybe not today. So I didn't see, I didn't see my cousin Marilyn. I didn't see my friend Jody. You know, I didn't see anybody. I didn't leave the little compound area where I was. And when Alan went home for a day, back to D.C. for a day, I was lost. I was completely alone. Completely lost. And you know what I did for dinner? What? I went to the Publix and bought a sandwich and a bowl of pub sub.

[Finn]

Yes, there you go.

[Nigel]

Do you open chicken tendies?

[Tony Kornheiser]

I thought it was. I didn't get the chicken, but I got a ham, turkey, roast beef, cheese, lettuce, tomato.

[Nigel]

Talk about a cold cut sandwich.

[Finn]

That is a big sandwich.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I was happy. I walked home.

[Nigel]

Did you go for the sun chips?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Four blocks. I didn't get any chips.

[Finn]

What kind of soup?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Chicken noodle soup. Stayed hot till I got home because I don't know how to use Alan's stove. No. You know what I mean? Refrigerator. Besides water, nothing is the correct answer. There's no food, you know, so I. I had that. I went to Publix, which is for people who don't know the. A big supermarket, go to self checkout. Did not go to self checkout. No. I paid cash. So, happy.

[Nigel]

Did you use my phone number?

[Finn]

Get a deal?

[Tony Kornheiser]

No.

[Finn]

What?

[Nigel]

Put my phone number in.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I had no idea.

[Nigel]

Yeah, get some public savings. Come on.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Oh, I didn't know. So the sandwich was about, I don't know, 12, $13 or something like that. Soup's about five bucks. It's fine. Yeah, it was fine. I was happy. So I'll tell one story. Tell one story here. People know I'm not a good. Good at flying. I'm really good at flying. Yeah, I'm. I'm.

[Nigel]

Must be a recent development.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, I'm terrified. But I did it. I did it twice. The first time was.

[Nigel]

Oh, there and back.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yes, there and back. I didn't. I actually thought of taking the train back, but I didn't. I got on the plane. I have so many people to thank. So many people that work for the airline. So many pilots. Steve Ganyard, a pilot. I text him so often. I know it drives him crazy, but he always is in good spirits and says, this is the right day to go. This will be better than that. Here's what this is going to feel like. Here's when the bumps are going to tell you everything. He's a pilot. He understands it. So I get to Palm beach, by the way, by the way, every restaurant in Palm beach, you're paying a service tax because you're in Palm Beach. They're jacking up what everything costs because you're in Palm beach. Just so people know. Because if you're in Fort Lauderdale, it's not. Not as much anyway. Go to the airport and there's. I'm going through the lines, doing what I'm supposed to do, you know, showing them what's in the bag or this, that and the other thing. And I'm in the line and a couple of guys who are dressed like pilots are right behind me and they're picking up carry bags, you know, their own suitcases, and they're going through the line. They don't really have to go through the line. They're pilots. They just put stuff out and everybody sort of lets them through. There's two guys. One of them has sent me a note, by the way, but I'll get to that in a second. And one of them is blonde. He's got blonde hair. He looks 15 years old, I think.

[Finn]

I don't pilot training program.

[Tony Kornheiser]

What I thought was.

[Thumbtack Advertiser]

Got the permit.

[Tony Kornheiser]

What I. What I thought is that he was like in the junior aviation club at his high school and was going to be on the plane. And I looked at him and in that moment of recognition, where you go, oh, maybe he's flying my plane. I said, I'm going to Dulles. Are you flying? He says, yeah, I'm flying the plane. Now I'm looking at him now. He's had this look. People have looked at him this way for a long time. He knows, yeah. And the look from me is, gosh, you look really young. And he says to me, yeah, I borrowed this hat and shirt from my dad, which is a great line.

[Nigel]

I'm just imagining Leonardo DiCaprio from catching.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's exactly who he looks like. Leonardo DiCaprio. So young Leonardo DiCaprio. So it's a great line. He's got a great line. He introduces himself, he recognizes me, and his name is Brady and his co pilot's name is Daniel. And Daniel has written me, I flew you from PBI to IAD today as the first officer. Met you at security at pbi. You were awesome. Came into the flight deck to say hi again before takeoff and after landing. And he said, I played football at the Air force Academy from 2008, 2012, before coming to the airlines. Maybe a long shot, but would love it if you gave the Air Force Academy football team a shout out on PTI. So here's what's interesting about that. So it's 2026, so that's 14 years ago. So he's in his mid-30s. Yeah. And he's probably a young pilot. And he's not. He's the first officer. He's not the pilot. The pilot is the guy I'm talking about who's. Great pilot. He's great. I walked in after we landed. I said I would go anywhere with you guys. Anywhere. It was just wonderful, you know, because he. He knew when it was going to be bumpy.

[Nigel]

Pr it. Did he PR it? What is that back to Dulles?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Oh, I don't. It was. We were 20 minutes early because the wind was coming south, and it was really good. That's really. So I was really. I was really thrilled about it. And, you know, and. And he's been flying for 10 to 15 years. There's no question about that. Because I asked a couple of my friends who were pilots, I say, look, these guys. These guys are really good. Yeah. He's flying a Boeing 737. It's not. It's not any plane. It's a good. No, he's really good. And he was really good. So this is what happened. This is the one story I'll tell. I am on the plane, and I'm, you know, I'm not good. I'm not good on the plane. I'm actually a little bit better on the plane sometimes than I am prior to the plane. A little. Because I've committed now. Yeah, I'm gonna go.

[Finn]

That's the anticipation.

[Tony Kornheiser]

And I, you know, I think it's gonna be okay. But I'm. I. You cannot control your phobias. You cannot control your fears. The best you can do is mask them in some way, you know, with Xanax, as a matter of fact. So we're on the plane, and it's bumping as they climb up to altitude. That happens all the time. And that's not anything. Cause as long as you feel the thrust of the plane, you know, okay, we're going forward. We're doing good. No problem. And I'm in my seat, and I close my eyes. Cause I'm, you know, I'm trying to sort of get out of where I am in my head, close my eyes, get as calm as I can be. As calm as I can be. And all of a sudden, I look down on my lap, and it's filled with water. One of the flight attendants has stumbled, and water lands all over my pants. All over me. All over me. So now the rest of the flight is fine. I'm not thinking about anything. But drying my pants, and they're giving me towels.

[Nigel]

Walking through Dulles to baggage.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Well, this is. Okay. So what is the great fear? The great fear is someone sees me. The front of my pants is soaking wet.

[Finn]

He was so scared.

[Tony Kornheiser]

On the floor, he was so scared, he peed on himself. Yes.

[Nigel]

Peed your pants is cool.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yes, yes. That is all I am consumed with for the rest of the trip. Now I'm trying to be funny, and I, you know, she says she's mortified. She's so sorry, and I appreciate that very, very much, but I can't help myself. I say things like, these are $8,000 jeans. These are special. They're one of a kind. She looks at me, her eyes get wide. They're $40 Calvin Klein. Don't worry about it. And I try to say, don't worry about it.

[Nigel]

Don't mess with the flying suit.

[Tony Kornheiser]

But then I say, but it's a good story, isn't it? And she doesn't want the story, you know, but it was. So they had a fan, a small little fan, I don't know, out of somebody's purse. And I'm trying to dry this, and I just. It's just wet the whole time. By the time I got home, still.

[Nigel]

Just wrap a sweater.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, Well, I had a. Yeah.

[Finn]

Around front.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I had a jacket, obviously. And I. I don't know. I mean, to my knowledge, nobody took a picture.

[Finn]

Haven't seen it trending yet.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So. Yeah. So. But it was, you know, it was. It got me to the point. And. And because the flight was early and this happened about 15, 20 minutes in, and I was busy with it for 30 or 40 minutes, and then it was. Then you felt. Yeah, then you're in the glide pattern. Yes.

[Finn]

You know, and so now we know the trick. We're going to distract you. Maybe like stomp on your foot or something. You know, get you distracted with something for about 15 minutes.

[Tony Kornheiser]

You know, it. And that was that. That is my immediate fear. Oh, boy. I'm going to walk off this plane. Somebody's going to recognize me, look at my pants, and go. He did. Oh, so now that. Now it would have been a lot worse. That was coffee. Oh, yeah. It would have been a lot worse. But I didn't even. I didn't see it happen. I just felt it. It was, you know, so that's my story. I'm sticking to that story. That's a pretty good story. And the. And the. The plane was terrific. I mean, it. Michael believes I should just start getting on Planes.

[Nigel]

I think we just have to plan it, right.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Every couple of Boston, go for.

[Nigel]

Go for lunch.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. And then come back.

[Finn]

Go to Faneuil Hall.

[Tony Kornheiser]

It's something.

[Finn]

Say hi to Bob.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, Pat the statue of Red. Pat, the statue of Red. Then come on back. Yeah. So I don't know.

[Finn]

Well, yeah, you have to do it all the time or never again.

[Tony Kornheiser]

This is exactly how I feel. This is exactly how I feel. And I want to, you know, I would like to go to California. I would like to go to California and play golf in California, just briefly, because Michael was there. I'll just name the courses because we had a great time. We played Emerald Dunes. We played a public course called the Park.

[Nigel]

Great course. Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Really love hands. Wonderful. Really wonderful. We played Seminole with Chet Maxson, in which I'm going to talk about later, a little bit with Wilbond, because of who I played with.

[Nigel]

Impossibly hard.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, just.

[Nigel]

But really cool to see what the stewards of the club have done there to protect it for future generations.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Just great.

[Nigel]

The front nine has literally been lifted.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. Yeah. And then we played Grove 23, which is, of course owned by Michael Jordan.

[Michael Wilbon]

Yeah, that's the one.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Like, it's not. He didn't invest in it. He owns it. He owns the course. So, you know, I'll have stories about all of these things so that they were all lovely.

[Nigel]

I go to the range at Grove. May I just say this before the rest of our group is there? And I look to my left and I see, oh, Maury's here. Maury's playing with us. But I see him on the range and I'm so happy to see Maury, I that I don't even notice that to my right at the far end, it's only about, you know, 20 person stall there is Dustin Johnson.

[Finn]

Yeah, yeah, there you go.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I'll tell stories about that as we go on. But I do want to say, one of the people that we played with there was Greg Feniger, who is the outgoing superintendent of the course. And he says thank you to me and Michael for allowing me to join your foursome. At Grove 23. We couldn't finish round. We got rained out about 15 or 16, something like that. I thoroughly enjoyed palling with everyone. Morey can really play. Maury can really play. I was happy that despite my nerves, I managed not to whiff on the first tee. And then I made a good putt and he said that was a highlight. But also, may I be officially the retired golf course superintendent of the Tony Kornheiser show because he's a little. Cause he listens. I mean, you wonder how and why and where amazing. And yeah, and Greg listens.

[Nigel]

It was just cool to see the course through his eyes as to what he's paying attention as you go around.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, it's. So we'll do that as the week goes on. We will talk about all of these things. But we'll get out of here now and Wilbon. That's right, will join us when we return. I'm Tony Kornheiser. This is the Tony Kornheiser Show. It's the last call for football on FanDuel one final Sunday, one last kickoff, the final chance to place your bets before the NFL season closes its tab. This is Super Bowl 60, and FanDuel is making sure you're in on it. If you're a new customer, bet $5 and get $200 in bonus bets if you win. So whether you're backing the favorite, riding with the underdog or building one last same game parlay, make it count. Because after the super bowl, the season's over and football is officially done. Last call for football on FanDuel, an official sportsbook partner of Super Bowl 60. Visit FanDuel.com podcast to get started.

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[Sally Jenkins]

You're listening to the Tony Kornheiser show.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Guys, here's a quick PSA for you. Forgetting Valentine's Day flowers is not the move. Trust me. This is why you want to go with the Bouch's company every time Boox delivers modern bouquets fresh to her door. Plus, with my code Tony, you get 25% off. Bouc's flowers are cut fresh from the best farms in the world. So you get bigger, brighter blooms that last way longer. They've got incredible flowers, even roses grown on the side of a volcano. And the best part, boots makes it easy. Pick the bouquet, the delivery date, and you're done. No last minute panic. That's why boox has over 50,000 five star reviews. And listen, even if she says don't get me anything, that doesn't mean no flowers, flowers still score every time. Valentine's Day is February 14, right after the big game. So don't fumble this order now go to booqs.com use my promo code, Tony. For 25% off, that's b o u q s.com promo code Tony Bux. Promo code, Tony. Use the code, people. You're listening to the Tony Kornheiser Show.

[Ned Ryerson (voice actor or character)]

1, 2, 3, 4.

[Tony Kornheiser]

These are the mixed apes. We have played their music before.

[Finn]

Yes, we have.

[Tony Kornheiser]

This is a song that they entitled 2222.

[Finn]

But it could also be Groundhog Day.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Groundhog Day. Yeah. And if it's Groundhog Day, they should have sung I got you, babe. Because Groundhog Day is one of the great movies ever, one of the great comedies of all time. Yes, it's brilliantly constructed.

[Finn]

Yes.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Bill Murray. It's just so great. Yeah. Don't you think?

[Finn]

100%. Everything about it's brilliant.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's what I think. I mean, every morning and it weaves in in such an intelligent way, then sucks you into a Ned Ryerson. So Ned Ryerson. I got you, babe. Same thing. Okay, Michael Wilbon is with us. Let's just start with this. I had the great fortune to play last week to play Seminole. Me, my son, my friend, Dr. Chet Maxson. And a fourth person whose name I believe you know. His name is Cody Parky. Do you want to tell people who that is? You want to tell people who that is?

[Michael Wilbon]

There are two words associated For Chicago with Cody Parky. Double and doink.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's right.

[Michael Wilbon]

Double doink. That's it.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So that's it.

[Michael Wilbon]

2018, soldier field playoffs against the Eagles. Bears. Eagles. I was there and I'm sure he's a wonderful young man.

[Tony Kornheiser]

He is.

[Michael Wilbon]

Yeah. I don't doubt that. I'd heard that before for someone who hadn't necessarily played golf with him but who'd been around him. And I'd heard that sadly, in Chicago if you say double and doink, somebody may punch in the face.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So. So this is like Cody Parky. Is he there with Bartman? No, no, Bartman is in his own category. Right?

[Michael Wilbon]

Yeah. That was a special place.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay. Okay, so. But you hated Cody Parker. No, no, no, you did. I didn't say you hate him now. You hated him.

[Michael Wilbon]

No, I never hated him. I hated the result of the game. Hated the result of the game. What he did was like a million other sports things, especially at Chicago where we didn't win stuff. It was. No, no, I never met him.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Oh, he's nice. He's. I have pictures of me and him. I'm sure I would send them to you, but I don't know how to do that. Michael will know how to do that. I could send you pictures. He was so nice and a good player.

[Michael Wilbon]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Nigel]

He had a 60 footer for birdie on the last.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yes, he did. He had a pretty good. Yeah, I mean a really nice guy. Played for, I think six different teams, you know.

[Michael Wilbon]

Right.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. And. And I didn't ask him. I couldn't bring myself to ask him about it.

[Michael Wilbon]

What?

[Tony Kornheiser]

You know, the double doink. I couldn't. I didn't mention it.

[Michael Wilbon]

There's nothing to ask. There's nothing to ask. It happened. It's a tough place to. If it's not the toughest place to kick a field goal in the NFL, it's one of the three to five toughest places, along with the Meadowlands and, you know, old candlestick even. That doesn't exist anymore. So there's nothing to ask. There would be no point to it. I wouldn't have wanted to ask. I wouldn't have wanted to discuss it at all.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Would you have been nice to him?

[Michael Wilbon]

Of course. Absolutely.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay. Because I'm sure he'd love to play with you.

[Michael Wilbon]

No, not necessarily. Because look, if you're Cody Parker, you have to be aware, even if you know it's the business you've chosen, you have to know that people have said things and people feel a certain way about that Day. Look, it's a pretty famous thing. It is in Chicago.

[Tony Kornheiser]

It is.

[Michael Wilbon]

Yeah. Yeah. So he might not have wanted to. Now, after a while, you get to know people and you know that that was. They. The whole metropolis felt that way. It doesn't even mean they wouldn't feel. Feel uncomfortable having a drink or having a dinner. They wouldn't. It's not Bart Mann. It's not. Trust me. It's not close.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Well, he was a nice guy. He was a good player. He hit it a long way, and we enjoyed it and.

[Michael Wilbon]

Good.

[Tony Kornheiser]

And he was happy to take pictures. And he knows I'm sending them to you.

[Michael Wilbon]

I'll tell you a quick story about that.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Michael Wilbon]

So I'm at Soldier field that day, and. Oh, goodness. Now I'm just blanking as I'm telling you the story. I'm blanking. Oh, yeah. So I'm walking. I just sit in my seat for 30 minutes. Double dwink. We're supposed to beat Philadelphia. We're going to go to the NFC title game. And I text. Part of the reason why people went crazy is because the Bears cut Robbie Gold.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. Who you loved.

[Michael Wilbon]

The most popular.

[Tony Kornheiser]

And he went. Then he went to San Francisco. Right? Yeah. Yeah.

[Michael Wilbon]

But the 49ers didn't make the playoffs that year. Whatever. So we're. I'm sitting there and I'm walking out. I'm just going to walk to my apartment, which is two miles. I'm so angry and despondent on a walk. So I decided to text Robbie Gold, who I know. Speaking of good golfers. I decided to text Robbie Gold just to say. Because every single person on the way out of Soldier Field just said, robbie Gold. He's making that.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Michael Wilbon]

We're still playing. Robbie Gold. Robbie Gold. And he's beloved. Robbie Gold. Robbie Gold. Robbie. I text Robbie Gold and I say, you won't believe what's going on here, where I'm walking out of Soldier field and there's 62,000 people all mentioning your name. And I get a text right back, and it says, yeah, I would believe you because I'm here. I'm walking out, too.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Oh, wow.

[Michael Wilbon]

And Robbie, who, you know, I don't know if he still considers himself a Chicagoan. He certainly did. Then he was just at the game with his kid. How about that?

[Tony Kornheiser]

I wonder if he would have. He would have something kind to say to Cody Parkey.

[Michael Wilbon]

I would assume, you know, he would. Robbie go's like the nicest guy in the history of the world.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. I mean, kickers stay together.

[Michael Wilbon]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I mean, I was asking. I was asking him, you know, I didn't ask him about that, but I asked him about what it's like, and I said, do you ever really feel a part of a team? And he said, there are moments where you feel part of the team. Yeah. When you're out there and you're helping or something like that. But most of the time, we're by ourselves.

[Michael Wilbon]

You do? Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

You know, we're just by ourselves. We practice by ourselves.

[Michael Wilbon]

Practicing by themselves. Absolutely.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. It's. It's an odd thing in a separate place.

[Michael Wilbon]

I learned later from other Bears guys that I know. Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. So it's. Anyway, it's weird. All right. We're on football. Is there any coaching move you're intrigued by or, you know, or you just go, how did this happen?

[Michael Wilbon]

Almost none of them. Yeah, Tony, that's a great question. No, not now. No, not really. They. You get a certain recycle situation. So there were 10 vacancies, right? 10 and eight have been hired. Or nine now. Eight or nine.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I think nine. And I think they're expecting Gary Kubiak's kid to be the Raider. To be the Raiders guy. Yeah.

[Michael Wilbon]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

And everybody's related to somebody but Matt LaFleur's younger brother. Just. I never heard of him. I didn't know who he was.

[Michael Wilbon]

Rams. Yeah. I just. No. No, I'm not.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay.

[Michael Wilbon]

And at some point I will, but at this point, I'm just like, can we get through this? Can we get through this? And the trade deadline, I just like to. To just fast forward right through both of them.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. So I missed last week, and I know that there was a lot to talk about, and I'm sure you talked about. You had to talk about Belichick not making the hall of Fame several days. Yeah. I mean. But isn't. Isn't part of that a function of the weirdness of the ballot?

[Michael Wilbon]

Yes.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Right.

[Michael Wilbon]

And people don't. People don't understand it. Including NFL players.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Michael Wilbon]

Former NFL players. You. So just. I'll just give it a short. So, first of all, you have a situation where you could have seven names advanced to you that you can vote on for the hall of Fame. You can put in as many as six. So you can't even vote for the people advanced to you in some cases. And making it worse, let's say that you want to vote for Elsie Greenwood or Roger Craig, both of whom.

[Tony Kornheiser]

How can Roger Craig not be in the hall of Fame?

[Michael Wilbon]

Exactly. So let's. Now, I'm not saying this is the case with them, but it could have been. You're sitting down there, you got three names. It would have been more, actually. Could have been three. You got Belichick, you got Roger Craig, you got LC Greenwood. The situation could be. Tony, I'm being serious now, that one of those guys, if you didn't pass that name along and vote for that person, they could be eliminated from consideration forever.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, yeah.

[Michael Wilbon]

And so what you say to yourself is. And I know because I sat in that room for 10 years, what you say to yourself is, okay, Belichick is going to get in because he's Belichick, but I don't want Roger Craig to never get in. So I'm going to vote for him now and I'll vote for Belichick next year. And then you're not a first ballot hall of Famer, just like that. So I don't know exactly how the ballot appears now, but I'm giving you a fundamental dilemma. And it's not really a dilemma because you know Belichick's name is gonna be there next year, but in the meantime, people go crazy.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. I mean, I read all the stuff about it. I read the guy from Kansas City explaining just that, saying, look, I don't want to be. I don't wanna be responsible for Roger Craig and Elsie Greenwood not getting in. And I know Belichick.

[Michael Wilbon]

Of course you don't.

[Tony Kornheiser]

And it reinforces to me, and this is my personal prejudice, not anybody else's, it's mine, that the only hall of Fame that matters to me is the Baseball hall of Fame. And the only first ballot that matters to me is baseball. I mean, because these other things don't make any sense to me. The Basketball hall of fame, there's like 80 people get in every single year.

[Michael Wilbon]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

And the Football hall of Fame, there's a million different positions. You know, it's just. It's hard.

[Michael Wilbon]

There was no kicker.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Michael Wilbon]

No punter. Look, I was in the room in the aughts when Ray Guy.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Ray Guy got in. Yeah.

[Michael Wilbon]

So, you know, it's one of the reasons I got out and was happy to get out of that is what.

[Tony Kornheiser]

We'Re talking about now, by the way. And I've just begun to look at the television. When did the Olympics start? Is that soon? Is that this week? Next week?

[Michael Wilbon]

Next week?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Is there something. I don't think. Yeah, I'm not certain.

[Michael Wilbon]

I'm not either.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Is there something you're looking forward to in the Winter Olympics?

[Michael Wilbon]

No, not a thing.

[Tony Kornheiser]

We gotta do a show. We gotta look forward to it.

[Michael Wilbon]

But you know what? I don't know how much of that we're gonna do because. Because so much of it during the day.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Michael Wilbon]

The hockey and the figure skating, which I don't care about. And so whatever I want to talk about will be at night in primetime. It's a television show for NBC.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Sure.

[Michael Wilbon]

That's what it is.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Well, it used to be for abc. That used to be.

[Michael Wilbon]

Yeah, exactly.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Michael Wilbon]

And so will I watch it? Yeah. Because every. I always start out by saying I'm not gonna watch the winter because I don't care about the skating. I loathe the skating.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. I love the skating.

[Michael Wilbon]

And I'm not going to watch it. And so I'm not going to be able to really chat about it because I'm not going to watch. You know, there are very few things in life, in sports, almost nothing that I say, no, I'm not going to watch that. I am not going to watch the skating. Not for one minute. I object to it. I object to the nature of it, not the people who do it.

[Tony Kornheiser]

No, you do it.

[Michael Wilbon]

It's the judging performers under stress ever in any walk of athleticism. But, you know, we don't have ballroom dancing in either. And people can say, you being preposterous. Okay, you can say that. But to me, if something can only be judged, I have a problem with it being in Olympic competition.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I feel the same way often about gymnastics.

[Michael Wilbon]

Same same way.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I feel the same way diving, my.

[Michael Wilbon]

Dear friends, with a United States Olympian and medal winner with Dominique Dawes, a dear friend. And, you know, I have this feeling which has nothing to do with any single competitor. And it's. It's a marvel. You know, I feel that way. It's a marvel. But I'm not. I'm not going to watch the skating.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I'm not. I'm handed a note that it starts Friday.

[Michael Wilbon]

There we have.

[Tony Kornheiser]

It starts Friday. I wouldn't.

[Michael Wilbon]

Before the Super Bowl, I would have known. So, I mean, there'll be things we talked about. Lindsey Vonn falling Friday. Will I watch the downhill? Probably. Will I watch some of the hockey? Probably. I thought. There are times I thought, it's the greatest hockey tournament in the world. I have been right there in attendance for the return of professional hockey players to the Olympics. And it was a marvel. Will I watch it? Maybe. Maybe. But I don't know, Tony. I don't know how much of it really conveys like Winter Olympics. You've done them. You gotta be there. You need to be front and center and we're not gonna be that. So I don't know.

[Tony Kornheiser]

All right, I will see you later. And the next time we talk, we're gonna have to talk about Michael Jordan and his comments about you when I saw him last week, which I will tell you later. All right. Yeah, Michael Wilbond, boys and girls. See you later.

[Michael Wilbon]

Thanks, Tom.

[Tony Kornheiser]

We'll take a break. Sally Jenkins will join us. I'm Tony Kornheiser. This is the Tony Kornheiser Show. This episode of the Tony Kornheiser show is brought to you by Wild Grain. Wild Grain is the first baked from frozen subscript subscription box for sourdough breads, artisanal pastries and fresh pastas. Unlike a lot of store bought options, Wild Grain uses simple ingredients you can actually pronounce and a slow fermentation process that can be easy on your belly and richer in nutrients and antioxidants. You can choose the variety box, gluten free, vegan, or even the new protein box. It's made weeknight meals simpler, weekend mornings cozier. And honestly, it will add just a little bit of calm to your routine during the winter months. There's nothing like having an artisan bakery in your freezer to chase away the winter chill. Now is the best time to stay in and enjoy comforting homemade meals with wild grain. Which is why you should give Wild Grain a try. And before I get to the money off that you can get right, I use this. You like this. I love this. I watch it and when it's ready, I let it sit like they tell you to and then I eat it and you've done the same.

[Nigel]

Makes it feel like you run a patisserie.

[Tony Kornheiser]

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[Sally Jenkins]

You're listening to the Tony Kornheiser Show.

[Tony Kornheiser]

This is a song called Someone to Hold. It's sung by Marianne Redmond. It's written by Doug Stanglin and Janet Devers. And Michael Granberry writes Doug Stanglin and I grew up in the same community of Dallas, a place known as Pleasant Grove. Doug's father owned the Twilight Time Skating Rink where as a child I once broke my arm. But I won't hold that against Doug, who in addition to being a consummate journalist who worked for years as a foreign correspondent in such places as Poland and Russia before finishing his career at USA Today, has quietly become a gifted songwriter, a passion he has pursued for years. And he talks about sending this song and Janet Devers is a singer songwriter with a music degree from George Mason University and background in musical theater and opera, which carried her to the stage of the Bolshoi Theater in Moscow in 1993, where she performed in the opera I Am the Way, written and produced by Jerome Hines. The singer on Someone to Hold is Marianne Redmond, a popular Washington area singer. The pianist is Pat Coyle. Doug, who lives in Arlington, Virginia, and who, as an avid golfer, plays on courses up and down. I95 gives us permission for this song. Michael Granberry never misses, never, never misses. And the song plays in Sally Jenkins, who I think we have awakened in California and we apologize for that. Can I just. I wanted to talk generally. I'm going to talk to you about the tennis a little bit, but that's down the road generally. You worked at the Washington Post. I worked at the Washington Post. There's all sorts of things on the Internet and I'm getting questions from people. There's some notion that the Washington Post sports section is going to go away. It's going to be folded up and sent away. What? You know, it's the landscape of sports media changes at a breakneck pace. I mean, we just don't really understand what's going on. But what do you hear about this? What do you know about this?

[Sally Jenkins]

What I know is most of my friends are bracing to be laid off in the middle of the super bowl and the Olympics.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Sally Jenkins]

They're getting no assurances from management. They're getting no information. They're operating in. They've been told heavy cuts are coming to sports and local and foreign, but they're mostly being told that by other media outlets.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Sally Jenkins]

They are sitting around preparing to take it in the neck, even highly placed editors in the section.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Do you think that's what's going to happen?

[Sally Jenkins]

I mean, you know, I have no idea. It's, it's possible that they could react to. There's a lot of backlash. You know, they're taking it pretty. They're getting a lot of criticism on social media and stuff. And it could be that they've trotted out these rumors to sort of feel them out I really don't know what they're. What's going through their heads, but I do know that the place hasn't grown under William Lewis. In fact, it's contracted under him for whatever reason in terms of revenue. And, you know, at a certain point, I guess he decided that this was. I mean, I can only presume that he's decided that since he can't grow, he needs to cut.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So you and I aspired to the same thing. I'm older than you are, of course, but we aspired to the same thing. We wanted to be sports writers, and we were, and we were for a long period of time, and very successfully. If you were 25 years old now, what would you aspire to? How does it work? If you're young and you think you're talented, and this feels like a calling, where do you work?

[Sally Jenkins]

Well, I mean, there's still plenty of great places to work. The New York Times has no problem making a profit off of sports coverage. They've actually grown by leaps and bounds. I think I saw something recently that they had very healthy revenues last week, quarter there. They became profitable in the space of a couple of years. The Atlantic is beefing up its sports coverage. Witness my presence.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Right.

[Sally Jenkins]

Right at the Atlantic magazine. You've got. You've got all kinds of. I mean, you've got everything from Bleacher Report to, you know, you've got what Ben Simmons, the projects Ben Simmons has been doing. You've got. I mean, there's all kinds of interesting places to look if you're interested in being a sports correspondent. I do think in new media, Tony, you're going to have to be able to do more than just write. You know, you're going to have to. You're going to have to understand podcasting. You're going to have to understand social media platforms and how to make your own short video that's going to engage and appeal to, you know, younger audiences who are getting most of their news from screens. I think that's. That's part of the new reality. But I think the interesting thing is that people are still reading more than ever. They're just not reading on the same sites, the conventional legacy media sites, necessarily, unless you're talking about the athletic. But there's still plenty of reading going on out there.

[Tony Kornheiser]

They're just. I guess one of the things that. That's difficult for me is there doesn't seem to be a format for credentialing anymore. There doesn't seem to be a hierarchy set out there saying this person came from A, B, C and D. And that's why this person has credibility. You know, now it's. It's more democratic. Anybody can do it. But it's hard sometimes I see people and I go, well, who's this guy? You know, this guy.

[Sally Jenkins]

So you mean, like, you're talking about. You know, there's no, like, oh, he came from the Toledo Blade. Oh, he came from the Portland Oregonian. Right, Yeah. I mean, they're going to come from different places. Sure. I mean, they're going to come from Vox, they're going to come from Vice, they're going to come from Defector. You know, defectors got terrific writers, always has. You know, look, that's a. That's a sports website Will Leach built from scratch in his basement. You know, look, the Free Press. Bari Weiss is demonized. But look, you know, here's someone who built a media organization, a digital media organization from the ground up in just the space of three or four years and just sold it for a billion dollars. So, you know, the idea. I mean, Kara Swisher talks about this all the time. The idea that there's no reading going on out there, that somehow the information world is evaporating is simply not true. You just have to figure out how people are consuming it. You know, you have to figure out, okay, if you've got all these people getting their daily news hit from Apple News summaries, and they're picking what they want to read, you know, so how do we engage with Apple News? Right. And so that's, I think, a lot of what's going on, not just at the Washington Post, but everywhere. The difference with the Washington Post is I don't think if they indeed annihilate and eliminate their sports section, they're trying to pitch that as. Or spin it as a strategy. I don't think you can look at that as anything other than an utter epic failure.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Well, I would certainly look at it that way because this is how I made my living and this is what I wanted to do. I wanted. I had a sense of. Of what the Washington Post was, where it was circulated, who read it, and that gave me a sense of what to write in it, you know, and I would be very happy to have been considered a local columnist in the Washington, D.C. area. We get. I see these stories. We get mentioned a lot, you and me and Wilbon and Boz and Kindred. It feels like we're relics, you know.

[Michael Wilbon]

Yeah.

[Sally Jenkins]

Artifacts.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Sally Jenkins]

Dust us off, you know, and. Yeah. Take a little brush and Dust us off.

[Tony Kornheiser]

It's a very odd thing. It's a very odd thing for me.

[Sally Jenkins]

All right. I don't think so, though, Tony. You guys, audience is bigger than ever, right? You just renewed your contracts, for God's sake.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Oh, yeah, but that's, I mean, but that's just fortune. I mean, that's good fortune.

[Sally Jenkins]

No, it's a function of quality. It's a function of taste and discernment in the audience and quality of your, your product. Tom Boswell's still one of the best read then when he chooses to write.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Sally Jenkins]

On a baseball subject, he's still the most authoritative, one of the best dread voices out there. You know, we have all kinds of stories generated out of sports and specifically at the Washington Post that have commanded seismic sized audiences on really fascinating subjects. One great example yesterday was Jesse Dougherty did a really good piece on the use of Excel sheets in college sports. Really fascinating, great graphics, innovative topic presented with novel graphics. And it should be everything that the Washington Post sports section can model and can do. And they buried it.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's. I don't have answers when people ask me about it. I don't, I don't know what to say. I just don't. All right, let me move on. But I appreciate you talking because you were closer to it. You were just there. Did you watch any of the tennis? Did you. What did you think of, of Alcaraz? What do we think of Alcaraz and Djokovic and Sinner? Is that it? Is that all there is in men's tennis now?

[Sally Jenkins]

Pretty much. I mean, do you see Taylor Fritz or Alex Alexander Zverev winning fourth and fifth sets? I mean, that's the problem. They can take a set or two often, but they can't seem to get that fourth set or that fifth set. They're just a click behind. And Taylor Fritz keeps working at it. It's interesting, but he's still got, you know, he's still got a little ways to go. He's a big kid. You know, there's a lot for Taylor Fritz to organize and, and maybe he'll get there. But you know, here's the thing. Even Djokovic now, like you see this in champions, where they can still make semifinals and finals, but they too are one click missing something, whether it's speed or a couple of shots here. And they just can't seem to get over the last margin of victory, which in tennis is really, really, really close. Right. A match can turn on one or two points, and with Djokovic, you Just feel that he's just the tiniest bit overmatched in terms of stamina and velocity by Alcaraz, who really is the best player on the planet today. I don't care if Sinner beats him here or there when he's tired. I think Alcaraz is. Is about 5% better than everybody else right now.

[Tony Kornheiser]

He's got all four. He's got a total of seven. And he's a baby. And he's a baby. And there's. And there's three guys out there, and one of them is 40 years old. So there's two guys, and he's got.

[Sally Jenkins]

Yeah, he's got four. He's got four championships, but more importantly, he's got every shot. Yeah, every shot. Where do you attack him?

[Tony Kornheiser]

He's really good. I'm sad that there's nobody else, you know, that there's just a couple or three. Like where the women. There's a new winner every week, you know? You know, if you. I would. I was going to ask Kelleher this today, if we talked about tennis in the last, say, 12 majors, how many different women have won them? I'll bet it's at least five. Right. And that's not true of the men. The men. It's two. It's just two. Yeah. So it's not.

[Sally Jenkins]

And the odd thing is that there's a player out there that you think should be winning all of them, and that's Swan Tech, but she's sort of a little fragile. You know, it's interesting. I don't know why she's not scooping up more of them on a consistent basis.

[Tony Kornheiser]

You got anything to say about Belichick not making the hall of Fame, or is that overblown at this point?

[Sally Jenkins]

Oh, my God, what a travesty. You know, What a bunch of Percy mouthed, mean spirited. You know, it's the mean girls table at lunch. Yeah, yeah, it really is. It really is. That's. That's nonsense. The fact that. The fact that, you know, 11 people thought that that was in any way a sensible thing to do, that it would do anything other than embarrass the hall and embarrass themselves.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I don't. I don't. I met him. I know him. I don't like them, but you kidding me? He's got. Stop.

[Sally Jenkins]

And by the way, let's put this in perspective, okay? The hall of Fame is a wax museum. You know, it's not the greatest tragedy in the world, you know, it's Madame Tussauds.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Well, he'll get in. Yeah, he will. I'm not going to worry about it. All right? Enjoy yourself. Thank you for coming on. I'm sorry for awakening you. I'm sorry. I didn't know you were there.

[Sally Jenkins]

Hey, you know what? Writers keep farmers hours, okay?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yes, they do.

[Sally Jenkins]

We go after work. Left sheep.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Thanks, Sal.

[Sally Jenkins]

Bye, guys.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Sally Jenkins. We will come back with email and jingle. I am Tony Kornheiser.

[Sally Jenkins]

This is the Tony Korniser show. Tony Kornizer show.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Here comes Tony Many may your bag email, faxes and notes. Here comes Tony mail back. Gonna read some for all of you folks. He's gonna read some for all of you. That's Pat Baz. We like that.

[Finn]

Oh, yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

You want to do the Bethesda bagel ad for us?

[Finn]

Bagel sandwiches. Very excited about that. Just go to Bethesda Bagels.com for the location in the DC area nearest you. Then pop on in and you'll be thrilled.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Before we get to the mailbag, let me just say she comes from Tallahassee. She's got a high five chassis maybe looks a little sassy, but to me she's real classy. Yeah. My Tallahassee lassie down in Fla. That's Freddy Boom Boom Town. And that's 70 years old. That song. 70 years old it is.

[Finn]

We did not go over this before the show.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Song 70 years old. You didn't think I would know that?

[Finn]

I had a feeling you would.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Freddie Boom Boom Tammy. Yeah. Down in fla. Yeah. Thanks to our guests today. Michael Wilbon, Sally Jenkins. Thanks as well to today's sponsors. Remember, you can listen to us on Apple podcast, Spotify and Odyssey. If you get show through Apple. Please leave us a review just before I get to the mailbag. You know, so we have Wilbon on and we have Sally on and we have me on. And that's the Washington Post. You know, that's. That's.

[Finn]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Who we were. Who we are. Who we were. Come on. Brett Hobbs, Lytton, Indiana. No Cornheiser. No football. Stuck inside for four days because of a massive snowpack. I refuse to pay attention to the NBA. It is a sports wasteland. At least we didn't succumb to cannibalism. So. And that the headline on that email is. So Tony heads to Florida and I'm left with what? From Steve the Sycophant. Welcome back. Here's a true good neighborhood story. As I marched out last Monday morning to start shoveling my long driveway, I had two shovels, one garden spade to break the icy crust and a regular snow shovel. At my advanced age, 83, I figured 20 minutes work, 10 minutes break for several hours, then finish up on Tuesday. As I was shoveling away, I heard a roar behind me and looked up to see my across the street neighbors starting at the top of my driveway with his snowblower. Now we know each other enough to say hi, but that's it. I walked up and told him he didn't need to do this, but he said he had nothing better to do and he was worked away. I happily went to work on my front stoop and walk and by the time I finished that, he'd taken care of my entire driveway. Nothing, nothing is better than a friendly neighbor with a snowblower. I did take over a good bottle of wine for him later that day. Hope you're all dug out and don't have a sunburn. I do have a sunburn from Florida and I admire Steve the sycophant because he's still shoveling and I'm not. Well, you've been told, cardiologist. Yeah, and I will say no.

[Finn]

The kindness of strangers that one's one encounters during these types of storms always blows you away. And on that note, Walter, you are a great man. We wouldn't still be trapped if it was not for you.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So Walter helped in your.

[Finn]

Walter helped our entire neighborhood out.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yes. All right. I'm sure Tony was watching the weather closely on his vacation to Florida. It's Sunday morning February 1st, and the wind chill is 14. Last week it was 85. When you were here for the season, you see it all dg. So yeah, we played a couple of days. Played shorts and it was. Yeah, but then. But then I played the last two days I was there in Florida. I played in sweaters.

[Nigel]

I toughed it out with the shorts.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, not me. I bad sweaters.

[Nigel]

You were digging out winter caps.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. And line pants. No, I didn't bring the line pants. Who brings line pants to Florida? But it's cold there and people were complaining. I'm happy to play golf in a sweater and a pair of pants. Totally happy to do it. Doesn't bother me at all. It doesn't have to be 80, but it was under freezing there. Michael. Sweet. In Baltimore. Some good stories, huh? I don't want to hear. Tell him, Michael. I shot in 88 or the weather was beautiful. Good stories involve conflict. I want to hear about Tony versus Florida. I know that happened. Tell us and I will, I will.

[Nigel]

The three of us trying to figure out dinner every night.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, just. Yeah. A haiku from shed. Snow, sleet, frigid temps. Tony Kornheiser's timing is impeccable. Yeah, it was fine. I mean I. I had.

[Finn]

You got it. You guys got it right in time.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I had no idea when I made the plans. Yeah. Couldn't that. That it was going to be.

[Finn]

It really was.

[Tony Kornheiser]

We haven't had this in so many years. It's like record breaking extended cold.

[Finn]

I heard that we haven't had a cold spell this deep and this long since 1880. So it's been a minute.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So I would, you know, I just.

[Nigel]

Wait for your gas bill.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Oh, no, my gas bill was 750 last month. 750.

[Nigel]

But would you keep the temperature at.

[Tony Kornheiser]

The house when you're in Florida 71. Because I didn't have, you know, I didn't know.

[Nigel]

Worried about the pipes.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Well, the pipes were fine.

[Nigel]

Gotta open up the cabinets.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Greg Collins under the headline. Well, it doesn't matter. Unlike Humphrey Bogartan, Casablanca. Tony got on the plane. Evan Gulmund or Guimond. G U I maybe M O N D Gimond in Washington D.C. oh, where's. Whoa. I know all these people in this picture. I stumbled across this picture while scrolling on Instagram. It's an app on your phone. Ask Michael. The pictures of Ben Affleck, Matt Damon and Bill Simmons watching the last Patriots Seahawks Super bowl in 2015. I was about to scroll away from the post when I noticed a certain orange bald presence emanating from the left hand side of the frame. I've been a loyal little since 2020. I don't think I've ever heard you tell the story. Did you really watch a Super bowl with Ben Affleck and Matt Damon? Yeah, I told the story. Yeah, I told the story. Yeah. Was it. That was the Malcolm Butler's house.

[Finn]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. And they were ecstatic because. Of course, because you get an interception and you win the game. Yeah, I see Simmons's face and then, oh, look at this. I'm in this picture.

[Finn]

By the way, there's another picture going around with you in it on the. On Twitter. It stunned me.

[Tony Kornheiser]

You see that? Sports reporters. Yeah. Who's that? Me and Chap. And that's Lupico. Who's the. I don't know who. Leonard Coppet.

[Finn]

Yeah, that's right.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Leonard Coppet.

[Finn]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Why is it going around? Don't know.

[Finn]

People are just saying, remember the show? It was great.

[Tony Kornheiser]

It was a great show.

[Finn]

It was a brilliant show.

[Tony Kornheiser]

It's a great show. From Dave Marin, a Chatter veteran. I bet February is your favorite month because it contains four Mondays, four Tuesdays, four Wednesdays, four Thursdays, four Fridays, four Saturdays, four Sundays. Information for Life from Greg Packard. Josh Packard, rather, in Greeley, Colorado. Have I met an astronaut? I am an astronaut. Okay, not really. But I did stay at a Holiday Inn. Holiday Inn last night. And this is so great. Patrick Sitter and Sioux Falls. Did you ask the socialite if he knows Peter Goldstein? That's so funny. So funny. If you're out of your bike tonight, everyone, as always, do wear white and try to stay warm and avoid the ice. Now, don't you tell me you don't.

[Nigel]

Remember me because I sure as heck fire remember you.

[Ned Ryerson (voice actor or character)]

1, 2, 3, 4. Think fast. It's a blast from your past history Thick got glassed and wool blend Houndstooth cap. Now forecast how this typecast bowling mystery things he can hit your kidney Right hand jab. When it comes to friends, you can't be too choosy. Watch out for the first step. It's doozy. It's me, Ned Ryerson.

[Finn]

So, did you turn pro with that belly button thing? Ned or.

[Nigel]

No, Phil, I sell insurance.

[Tony Kornheiser]

What a shot.

[Nigel]

Do you have life insurance?

[Ned Ryerson (voice actor or character)]

I know guys that live. Live and die by tables.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Live and die by the actuarial table.

[Ned Ryerson (voice actor or character)]

It's all one big crapshoot. That's what I say.

[Tony Kornheiser]

It's all one big crapshoot.

[Ned Ryerson (voice actor or character)]

Anywho, but if you're hurt, can't work, become disabled.

[Michael Wilbon]

It's funny you should mention your help.

[Ned Ryerson (voice actor or character)]

I'll be glad we had some time to talk today.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Have you ever heard of single premium light?

[Ned Ryerson (voice actor or character)]

When it comes to fortune, don't live loosely and watch out for the first step. It's a doozy. It's me, Ned Ryerson.

[Nigel]

Bing.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I give you our sharpest attack today.

[Ned Ryerson (voice actor or character)]

You know, I always get who's Ned Ryerson. I never get who is Ned Ryerson. I'm gonna break it down. Now that you remember I'm that guy from that thing. Here's a little more about the punk Satonic king. I like jelly on my BB and J. I'm the only guy you know that eats a hot dog sideways. I always read the updated terms and conditions. I've never cussed, I always dust. I don't trust musicians. I almost didn't graduate cause I had the shingles. My life's too bland so I got banned from Christian man. No dates but I've got faith for all the fish in the sea. But there's no mania in Pennsylvania for efficiency. I swear one of these days I'm gonna find me your wife. But never mind all that and let's get back to ensuring your life. Hey, Phil. You never know what tomorrow will bring. Instead, in God I trust everybody else should go mad. About halfway through, I had the strangest deja vu. Have we had this talk before? Anyways, where were we? All right, think fast. It's a blast from your past. I know. God's a living die, my crapshoot, that's what I forecast out. If your hurricane work, the company can hit your kidney. Right hand doubly glad we had this talk today. I know guys that live and die by safe ass blast from your.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Take.

[Ned Ryerson (voice actor or character)]

Out glass and bubble. Had this time to talk today. He can hit you. Can you?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Right hand.

[Ned Ryerson (voice actor or character)]

When make homes and friends, you can't be too choosy.

[Nigel]

Watch out for that first step.

[Marianne Redmond (singer)]

It's enthusy.

[Ned Ryerson (voice actor or character)]

It's me, Ned Ryerson.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Oh, I got that.

[Marianne Redmond (singer)]

In times like these when the world's gone mad and I can't even count all the heartaches I've had When skies turn gray and day face to night.

[Thumbtack Advertiser]

Night.

[Marianne Redmond (singer)]

What would it take to bring back the light? Someone to hold Someone to touch Someone touch or care for Am I asking too much? A simple embrace Worn from the cold no strings or promises Just someone to.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Hold.

[Marianne Redmond (singer)]

In these crazy moments as life rushes past and I can't even tell one day from the last.

[Sally Jenkins]

When people.

[Marianne Redmond (singer)]

Pass by Like I don't exist My heart yearns to find the one thing I've missed Someone. Someone to touch Someone to care for Am I asking too much? A simple embrace Warmth from the cold no strings or promises Just someone to hold. Someone to say good morning to Someone to kiss good night I'll keep searching till I finally find Someone to hold Someone to touch Someone to care for Am I asking, asking too much? A simple embrace Warmth from the cold no strings of promises Just someone oh no strings or promises Just someone to hold.