Barry Zverluga (4:24)

That's correct.

Tony Kornheiser (4:25)

He was swept in on the anti Nixon feeling in 1976. And Gerald Ford could really not combat that, although it was close, was a close election. And Gerald Ford was essentially a caretaker president and was good. Most people liked Gerald Ford. Likability is an important thing. And at that period of time, people liked Jimmy Carter as well. When Ronald Reagan debated Jimmy Carter, there's that one famous line where he goes, there you go again. And it was it just appeared to make Jimmy Carter sort of childlike and appeared to put him in the pocket of Ronald Reagan. And Ronald Reagan won. Jimmy Carter was a one term president, but he had an extraordinary second act that nobody ever talks, nobody ever feels is going to happen with a former president. Just feel, okay, there's a former president, they're going to sit around for a while, they're going to write a book or two and that's going to be it. And see him on a talk show.

Barry Zverluga (5:24)

Here or there, go on the speech circuit, that sort of thing.

Tony Kornheiser (5:26)

But Jimmy Carter and I read obituaries in the New York Times, in the Washington Post. Jimmy Carter apparently never felt like getting rich. He never beat the bushes for money. He was happy to live in Plains where he'd grown up. He was happy to live with his wife Rosalynn, childhood sweethearts. That was fine for him. And he devoted his life in this second act to just being a good and noble person. And, you know, everybody knows the stories of him taking a hammer and building houses and, and just sort of devoting himself. He was sort of on call, a good person on call, not just in the United States, but in other countries as well, to certify elections or things like that, to try to work for peace and democracy, it seemed to me. And he won the Nobel Prize. He won the Nobel Peace Prize. Look, this is, this is not the Cy Young, okay? This is not. Roger Clemens has six Nobel Peace. It doesn't work that way. You get one, that's enough. You're not eligible again. It's a one time deal, I think. I think it's a one time deal. And it's the highest honor, the highest sort of civilian honor that you can have. And so, you know, he had a long, distinguished, eventful and worthy life. And if that can be said about all of us, that would be a great way to go out. Would be. I got to watch something sort of intriguing last night. I'm staying away from the. We're going to do the football. Don't, don't worry. We're going to do all the football. We have Wilbond, we have Sverluga. We're going to do all the football. I got a little word last night that there was a, there was a show on CBS during the football games. Cbs, I guess, didn't have a late game, or maybe they did locally, but they didn't have it nationally. And they gave out the Stan Musial Awards. Stan Musial was one of the greatest baseball players of all time from Donora, Pennsylvania, played his entire career with the St. Louis Cardinals. Had 1815 hits at home and 1815 hits on the road. Is that balance? Do we consider that balance? He's a lifetime 3, 331 hit.

Barry Zverluga (7:39)

There goes that man again.

Tony Kornheiser (7:40)

Yeah. 331 hitter. So for reasons unknown to me, the comparable player for Stan Musial is Ted Williams, of course, But Stan Musial seems to be forgotten and Ted Williams seems to be venerated, not out of proportion because Teddy Ballgame was a great, great hitter, but so was Stan Musial, like about 20 all star games, whatever it was. And Stan Musial was a. An outgoing guy. And he owned a restaurant in St. Louis. He owned a restaurant called Stan Musial and Biggies. And Biggie was a pal of his. They owned this restaurant forever. And Stan Mugel played the harmonica. He was a public person, Stan Musial, and was beloved. Totally beloved. Well, the lifetime achievement Stan Musial Award last night was given to Bob Costas. Oh, that's who was introduced by Billy Crystal. So it's two guys from Long island are sitting there and Bob gets the Stan Musial Award. And Billy talks to him for a little while afterwards. And I watch. Of course I watch. It's a small interview. It's very nice. And. And Costas tells a couple of stories that to me are completely memorable. He had already auditioned. He was like Costas, like 21 or 22 years old, right out of Syracuse. And he had already auditioned for the job at Ko KMOX, big radio station in St. Louis that broadcasts Cardinals games. And Bob has auditioned for the job. Doesn't know if he's going to get it. He's in St. Louis. Doesn't know if he's going to be back. Doesn't know. Goes to Stan Musials and Biggies, orders a hamburger. Hamburger and a Coke. Tessie tells the story. What is a hamburger and a Coke? And when he goes to leave a tip, he takes out three $1 bills, a quarter, a nickel and a penny. 331. 331. He wants everybody, you know to get it. Okay, I get it. I know Stan Musial's numbers. 331 lifetime hits. That's great. And then he gets the job. And he tells the story of an All Star Game, a particular All Star Game, I guess, in the early to mid-60s. And on this National League All Star team are Frank Robinson, Hank Aaron, Willie Mays. I'm leaving somebody out. A great black ball player. I Don't know who it was. I'm just leaving out Frank. Frank Robinson is on the team. Willie Mays, Hank Aaron. And there's a fourth, and I'm leaving out the fourth. And it's just, you know, I just don't know. I forgot from last night. And Costas tells the story of how they are in the clubhouse before the game, and they are isolated. They were just these four black players, and they are sitting at a card table playing cards. And scattered throughout the rest of the room are the white players. And there were no Latin players at that time. Maybe they were wanted. Maybe it's Clemente. Maybe there was one Latin player. Maybe Clemente is the fourth guy I'm thinking of, but I'm not certain of that. And Costas tells a story about how Stan Musial, revered Stan Musial, gets up, walks over to the table where they're playing card, says, deal me in. And he says, can you imagine the effect of that on all the other players in the room? Like, that is. That is an act of inclusivity that is comparable to Pee Wee Reese putting his arm around Jackie Robinson. Pee Wee Reese from Louisville, Kentucky, putting his arm around Jackie Robinson. These are things that, when you write the history of baseball, these are included in there. So that was a. That was just a lovely story. You know, it was maybe five, six minute interview. Crystal introduces them and says, we're both baseball fans. I mean, Billy played college baseball at Marshall. We're both baseball fans. We're both from Long island. We're both 6 to 200, which is funny because they're like 5. 5. You know, it was just. It was a lovely and warm moment, and I was. I was grateful that I was tipped to it and I could. I could watch it. And in the interim, you know, in between and all around on Saturday and Sunday and whenever. And all I did was watch football. A lot of football? No, I just watched a lot of football because I couldn't play golf because course was too wet yesterday for carts. And I didn't really feel like walking. I had walked on the treadmill and I just said, how much walking am I going to do? No point in that. So I watched all of these things. There's a couple of great moments concerning people who bet for us. So Chuck Todd appeared to be a dead man. Appeared to be a dead man.

Barry Zverluga (12:18)

Well, that Vikings game, there's no way he was going to win that.

Tony Kornheiser (12:20)

It's. No, it's. It's the. It's the Denver Cincinnati game. Oh, when burrow scores with 129 to go. And he's got Cincinnati and they're up six and he's got Cincinnati minus three and a half. So he's going to win the game. Except that Bo Nix goes down the field and on the last play of the game on like 4th and 3 throws one into the end zone. Now it goes to overtime. Todd's dead. It's going to be a three point game. Yeah, it doesn't matter. He's dead, right? He's dead. Except, except Burrow goes down the field and has a touchdown. Yeah, Chuck Todd wins that. Carville had been dead to that point. Carville took the over on 49 and a half. If Bo Nicks doesn't get them into overtime, he loses that. But once you go to overtime, you figure there's going to be a score. Yeah. And so. Yeah, so at 49 and a half, it's 24, 24. At regulation it's 48. And then Carver wins as well, you know, so I, you know, I, I wrote notes on that. Joe Burrow, 412 yards and three touchdown passes. Again, eight straight weeks. You know how many people have done that in the history of the NFL? Zero would be the correct answer. Now there's one. Now there's Joe Burrow. He has done that. And I took a couple of notes yesterday. I don't know if we'll get to this, but at one point yesterday in the early games, the jets were down 40 to nothing. Early in the fourth quarter to Buffalo, 40 to nothing, they benched Aaron Rodgers. The Eagles with a third string quarterback. Nobody had ever heard of this guy outside of the Philadelphia locker room. But Hertz got, you know, Hertz was still in concussion protocol. Pickett got hurt, got banged around, and they have some guy from Stanford who I've never heard of. And they're up 417 early in the fourth quarter against Dallas. Awful. And Tampa Bay beats Carolina. They're up 4814 in the middle of the fourth. These are Division games. This is not supposed to happen. Not supposed to happen. And I think, I think it's fair to say at this point Aaron Rodgers has to be thinking it's over.

Barry Zverluga (14:35)

Well, apparently he went to the coach just before the score went to 40 and said, maybe you want to take me out of this one? Like basically benched himself.

Tony Kornheiser (14:44)

I don't think he's got it. I don't, I don't think he'll be, maybe he'll be back. I think the, you know, the, the odds are running against it right now.

Barry Zverluga (14:52)

It hasn't. Hasn't looked good.

Tony Kornheiser (14:54)

Has not. It'll be a sequel to the next documentary. Has not. Joe Flacco bought a Netflix. Joe Flacco had over 300 yards yesterday. But they couldn't for Indianapolis.

Barry Zverluga (15:04)

But in the one game the Giants.

Tony Kornheiser (15:06)

Scored a million points.

Barry Zverluga (15:07)

The New York football Giants have to lose. Like you want to lose out, guys.

Tony Kornheiser (15:11)

Yeah, you do.

Barry Zverluga (15:12)

And they scored like a ton of points and now they had more points.

Tony Kornheiser (15:15)

Than they've had in 10 years, apparently.

Barry Zverluga (15:16)

Amazing.

Tony Kornheiser (15:17)

Just really. So those are the highlights, but we will get to all of those things in the course of the day.

Barry Zverluga (15:22)

I do have some information on Nobel prizes. Apparently you can win it.

Tony Kornheiser (15:25)

You can win more than once.

Barry Zverluga (15:27)

There have been 1, 2, 3, 4.

Tony Kornheiser (15:29)

Oh, I take it all back.

Barry Zverluga (15:30)

Five people have won it twice.

Tony Kornheiser (15:32)

This is correction time on the PTI show.

Barry Zverluga (15:34)

And then a couple of. Yes, yes, this is.

Tony Kornheiser (15:36)

We'll go to reality and reality will tell us what we got wrong.

Barry Zverluga (15:39)

But my favorite is Marie Curie. Yes. She won for physics and, and chemistry. I think the only person ever do it in two different.

Tony Kornheiser (15:47)

Okay. But that's not the peace prize.

Barry Zverluga (15:48)

Oh, the peace prize. No, no, she didn't win the, the.

Tony Kornheiser (15:51)

Nobel Peace prize is what I'm talking about. Maybe I'm wrong. Well, I could be wrong.

Barry Zverluga (15:54)

So this is an institution, the international community. The Red Cross won it three times. Won the Nobel Peace Prize three times. But that's an institution or a person.

Tony Kornheiser (16:01)

That's not it. Yeah, it's not. So you can't put it up on your mantelpiece. Yeah.

Barry Zverluga (16:06)

The United nations has also won it twice. So.

Tony Kornheiser (16:08)

Okay.

Chuck Todd (16:09)

Yes.

Tony Kornheiser (16:09)

It's not, you know, I'm talking about.

Barry Zverluga (16:12)

And Barry Bonds apparently won it four times as well.

Tony Kornheiser (16:14)

Yeah. I will take a break. Michael Wilbon when we return. I'm Tony Kornheiser.

Unknown (16:20)

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Tony Kornheiser (18:36)

You'Re listening to the Tony Kornheiser Show. This is a band called Adamson Avenue. Jason, who's one of the members, sends it in, says longtime PTI fan, short time podcast listener, but I've listened long enough to know you and your team have great taste in music. Thought you might like to sample a couple of songs from my band Adamson Avenue out of Carrollton, Georgia. One instrumental, one nothing but acapella, so they're safe for Salizza as well. Thanks for listening. This is Blackbeard's broadcast, which is the musical one, yes, I assume, because I haven't heard any voices yet and it plays in Michael Wilbon and there's just over the last X amount of days. 5, 6, 7 days, however many days we haven't done PTI and Christmas is in between and New Year's is coming up. But in the past six, seven days there've been a ton of sports on television that I found myself drawn to. I mean, I also watched a couple of series which I hadn't done in a long time, but that's for another day. But you've watched the same amount of stuff, just a ton of stuff. Did any one or two things truly stand out to you?

Unknown (19:42)

Wow, that's a good question, Tony. You know, it's such a glut. It's supposed to be, by the way, a football.

Tony Kornheiser (19:49)

Yeah.

Unknown (19:50)

Both in the NFL and college, obviously. And I don't see. Well, you know, I do see some college basketball because I watch my alma mater play and I watch some early Big ten stuff, but I don't know that. You know what's interesting? I travel during this time of year and usually it's for work purposes.

Tony Kornheiser (20:11)

Right.

Unknown (20:12)

I have worked the Christmas week at some point. I've worked in Christmas week every year for 44 years.

Tony Kornheiser (20:22)

Yeah. People have to understand that if you're in the sports business, you don't get Christmas off you work.

Unknown (20:27)

No, and I worked a great majority of the Christmas days because of my NBA due, but this is the first time again in 44 years I have not worked. It's strange. I don't exactly know what to do. I'm grateful to have the time with my family. All of a sudden, as you know, a 9 year old is 16, is 24 out of the house and you've missed it. And that's what I was in the process of doing. So I didn't do that this year. Matthew and I have watched a fair amount of things, but also with travel, I'm out in Arizona now. I went to Chicago for a couple of days somewhere in there. I just, you know, I like to do that at this time of year before, you know, we're sort of on lockdown coming up. So I don't know that I have watched Tony in person or on television as much as I absolutely always do from December 10th to January 10th. I think my viewing is off yesterday. I flew out here yesterday morning in time to get in front of the television set. So I did watch NFL yesterday, but not like I normally do where it's, you know, it's on lockdown. And so I haven't, I haven't seen as much as I usually do. Like I haven't seen a second of golf, not one second. I've seen like not more than one second of NBA. And for me, this time of year I'm usually, it's like a. You know, I'm obsessed because I have to be because we're on the air with it, but I'm not. So it's, it's a. It's almost been a little time off, which is strange.

Tony Kornheiser (22:07)

I felt the same way and I felt that way because like you, we are we are conditioned to being on a show. And that show's gonna be off until Thursday and it has been off for a week. So I don't have to watch in the same way that I normally watch. It's on and I'm looking at it. And I said this at the open of the show and I don't have much more than what I'm going to say now, but I watched, I don't know, 20 games total, maybe more than that, in a variety of sports. There was a point yesterday when the New York jets were down 40 to nothing to Buffalo early in the fourth quarter. And I thought to myself, just close the doors. Just get out, just get out. 40 to nothing, a division game. You got Aaron Rodgers, you got nothing. And you know, and that stood out to me in some perverse way because I used to root for the jets when I was a kid. But that was, you know, that was such a stunner to me for in that 10 seconds I paid attention, you.

Unknown (23:17)

Know, so it was. I shouldn't root against anybody, you know, and my team stinks. But I root against the jets this year particularly. I don't, normally, I don't have an anti jets thing. I'm not, you know, I don't have any, any, any skin in that. Except the amount of preposterous overstatement of the Jets. And from the day they talked about signing Aaron Rodgers was so offensive to me, and I mean offensive, that I began to hate the Jets. I mean, and part of it is the Aaron Rodgers thing. I'm so sick of it. But it was so overstated just from day one. And like, you know, the network was held hostage by it, that we work for that. I am so glad to see them get trashed.

Tony Kornheiser (24:11)

They are just terrible.

Unknown (24:13)

It was 40 to nothing. It made me so happy. The barges to have to stand there and answer questions afterwards.

Tony Kornheiser (24:20)

So, yeah, I'm watching Red Zone and every once in a while they go to that game. And then I looked at it and I went, It's 40 to nothing. Great. It's 40 to nothing. You've got to leave. You need to leave the NFL. So I thought about that. So I want the Bengals in the playoffs because I love Joe Burrow. I just think he's a great quarterback. I think that Higgins and Chase are great receivers. I love to watch them. They dug their own grave by losing early. But I'd love to see him in the playoffs. But Mike, if I'm Kansas City, I let Denver beat me. I let Denver be. I don't want to face Joe Burrow ever. So I'd rather face Denver. And they play this week and they've already announced they're not going to play their starters. That's the correct thing, right? Let Denver in.

Unknown (25:08)

Well, I think it's the correct thing to worry about yourself and not play your starters.

Tony Kornheiser (25:12)

Yes.

Unknown (25:12)

Kansas City. I don't think you do it because you're trying to avoid anybody. So would they? Absolutely. I mean, the Bengals would have to win their opening game to face Kansas City.

Tony Kornheiser (25:23)

Sure. But. But they have a chance.

Unknown (25:26)

They've also lost, like, nine games.

Tony Kornheiser (25:28)

Yeah.

Unknown (25:29)

Why do you think that they already. I mean, you know, I hear what you're saying about Burrow and Chase, and it's true. What you're saying is fact. But they lost the games. They lose games.

Tony Kornheiser (25:41)

They do. They lost early. They lost a lot. They lost a lot. Let me go to your division. Let me go to your division. Green Bay at Minnesota yesterday.

Unknown (25:50)

Yeah. Yeah.

Tony Kornheiser (25:52)

Minnesota was very impressive. Green Bay to win that game. Jordan Love was terrible for three quarters and then was great. And then was great and was terrible for 3/4. Minnesota. I keep. I keep thinking, okay, they're going to fail now, but they don't fail. What do you think?

Unknown (26:12)

I mean, they can be the number one seed.

Tony Kornheiser (26:14)

Yeah.

Unknown (26:15)

How about that? You lose your quarterback that you. I don't know that he was going to be any good anyway as a rookie. You lose him and you put in.

Tony Kornheiser (26:26)

A guy who failed twice.

Unknown (26:29)

I mean, he's like the picture of failure.

Tony Kornheiser (26:32)

Yes.

Unknown (26:33)

Sam Donald.

Tony Kornheiser (26:34)

Yes.

Unknown (26:34)

And you. And you, you coach him up and you get him ready, and he's out there doing this for the whole season, week after week. Sam Darnold has not gotten anywhere near enough mention as mvp. And what I. If I had a vote, I know he'd be like, fourth. I'd have to have him behind, you know, Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson and Saquon Barkley. I would. But still, for him to be a top five player, Jared Goff might be fourth. For him to be a top five player in the league is unthinkable. And the Vikings are having a magical season.

Tony Kornheiser (27:11)

They are. They really are. They could be the number one seed. They could beat.

Unknown (27:15)

This is the greatest season they've had since Randall Cunningham to Chris Carter.

Tony Kornheiser (27:21)

Yeah, yeah.

Unknown (27:22)

We're talking. I mean, how many years ago is that? The 80s? It's the best season the Vikings have had since that.

Tony Kornheiser (27:29)

I think it's the 90s, but I don't know. Let me. Let me see.

Unknown (27:31)

Maybe. Maybe around 1990.

Tony Kornheiser (27:33)

Maybe someone tell people what we talked about, because I sent you a note and then we chatted and I said, the Chicago Bears are going to get Caleb Williams killed. They get him killed. He has. I. My great fear is that Caleb Williams ends up like David Carr, that the first two years in the NFL as the overall number one pick. He gets hit so many times that he's no good. And you, you, there's a, there's a guy you have in mind, right, that you think should coach that team.

Unknown (28:04)

Well, yeah, I mean, Ben Johnson is the guy that people, the offensive coordinator of the Detroit Lions is the guy that a great many of us want to coach.

Tony Kornheiser (28:13)

Yeah.

Unknown (28:14)

The Bears and Caleb Williams and I, I don't. Look, that could happen. We know that could happen. When you're, when you're the sac leader, when you've, you're leading the league in times. Sacked as a rookie. You said first and second season. We're not at the second season. He has to be coached differently and protected differently during the second season. So. And Caleb Williams has done some interesting things. He just had the longest streak in the NFL of not being intercepted and set the rookie record for that. And he threw an interception on the last play of the game. You know, desperation to sort of come back. They were down, whatever it was six, three or something like that. So he has done some, you know, he has done some interesting things, made some progress, thrown some. He's got way more touchdown passes and ratio. I'm not looking at it. I'm going to say it's 15 to 6 or 7 as a rookie with no team. No, no, no offensive line. He's got receivers.

Tony Kornheiser (29:14)

He's got receivers. Yeah.

Unknown (29:17)

He hasn't been coached. He's had like seven offensive coordinators this year, so I know, I'm not, I'm not, you know, it's not like he's out there being Archie Manning in which he's just throwing, you know, four picks a game and. No, that's not, that's not the story of their season.

Tony Kornheiser (29:34)

No. I'm just saying, physically, he gets sacked so much.

Unknown (29:37)

Okay. He. So did Troy Aikman, and he wound up wearing a gold jacket.

Tony Kornheiser (29:41)

Yeah.

Unknown (29:41)

So I, I, he looks, he has to be coached. They have to get the coach right. And so, you know, there are lots of people who want this. I mean, Pete Carroll.

Tony Kornheiser (29:52)

Yeah.

Unknown (29:53)

Just came out publicly and by the way, I don't know that I would object to that, depending on who Pete Carroll wanted to make his staff and bring in and do that, but If Ben Johnson is interested and there are indications that, you know, that the Bears know what they're doing in terms of being able to back channel contact him about that, then if we can get Ben Johnson, I think, look, it doesn't mean it'll work, but it means everybody will be happy going in. And I'm a person who, you know, when the job became open or before it became open, I started revisiting Cliff Kingsbury. I started revisiting that because Cliff Kingsbury was somebody the Bears could have hired to coach Caleb Williams as the offensive coordinator this season. And he's available and if he's offered a head coaching job.

Tony Kornheiser (30:46)

Yeah, he's not going to go to be a coordinator. He's going to go to be a head coach.

Unknown (30:49)

He's going to go right.

Tony Kornheiser (30:50)

That's right.

Unknown (30:51)

So there's some. There's going to be some options out there that look like they will work. Will they? Only time will tell. The Bears have hired four head coaches. Sis, Levy, Smith. And they've all been spectacular failures. Spectacular when they never should have let Lovey Smith go. Not back then. They fired Lovey smith off a 10 and six season.

Tony Kornheiser (31:13)

10 and six season.

Unknown (31:14)

You know how used to get on Nebraska?

Tony Kornheiser (31:17)

Yeah.

Unknown (31:17)

Firing that coach after a string of nine and threes.

Tony Kornheiser (31:20)

Yeah.

Unknown (31:21)

Because they thought it was their birthright to win the national championship. How's that worked out for Nebraska ever since?

Tony Kornheiser (31:26)

Terrible. Yeah, terrible. They're no good.

Unknown (31:28)

The Bears fired Lovey Smith at 10 and 6, like a year removed from an NFC championship game. And you know, they. They failed. So they got to get this right and everything that they've got riding will be on this selection as head coach.

Tony Kornheiser (31:50)

Okay. All right. Enjoy the weather. I'll talk to you. All right, so Michael Wilbon, boys and girls. We'll take a break. Barry Zvaluga will join us when we return. I'm Tony Kornheiser.

Michael Wilbon (31:59)

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Tony Kornheiser (33:36)

This is the Tony Kornheiser show. Once again, this is Adamson Avenue. This is their acapella song. This is called Wither without you. Wither as in not wither, wither. I'm gone Wither. Yeah, yeah, I'm withering. Yeah, Michael. If bands like Adamson Avenue want to send in their original music, how they.

Barry Zverluga (34:04)

Do it, send us some music by.

Tony Kornheiser (34:06)

Emailing it to jinglesonyquinizershow.com plays in Barry's Verluga, who's sitting on two pretty good stories right now. And I know they're local for me. I understand they're local. I live in Washington, dc. I understand that. But they also have national import. So I'm going to try and finesse these. One of them is Alexander Ovechkin, which was a complete non story when he was out. Complete non story because the story is I'm chasing Wayne Gretzky. When do I catch Wayne Gretzky? He's back now. We discussed this. He had a broken leg and he was out for an hour and a half. And I had my friends who were doctors, my, you know, Jody Forstadt in Florida calls me up and he goes, you got to understand the bone he broke in his leg. It's the easiest bone to heal in your whole body. Which Barry I never knew beforehand. But if he'd broken one of the other bones in his leg, he wouldn't be back at all. But that was a break that allowed him to get back he's been back for two games, he's got two goals. What, you know, what do you make of him right now, Tony?

Chuck Todd (35:07)

I don't get it. I mean, he is 39 years old. He has played 20 NHL games this year and he has 17 goals. Like, it's like, okay, so, oh, he'll casually throw in a 70 goal season or 70 goal pace at age 39. That's not, it's not only unprecedented, it's just like ridiculous. And so I've spent the better part of the last decade with him and he's now played, he's in his 20th NHL season. This is the biggest chunk of time he's ever missed because he just has a pretty unbreakable body. I've spent the better part of the last 10 seasons being like, well, the fall off is coming and it's going to be precipitous. It's going to be like an NFL running back who has had too, too many, you know, 300 carry season and he's just going to fall off a cliff. And he, instead of falling off a cliff, he just climbs the mountain. I mean, it's just unbelievable with him. So he is now. Wayne Gretzky's record is 894 goals. He long ago blew past Gordie Howe at 801 and Ovechkin is second. He needs only 25 goals to break the new break Gretzky's mark and what seemed like a very, very unlikely scenario. Even if he had played 80 or 82 games, I think he needed 41 goals coming into the season to pass Gretzky, which in his prime was not that big of a deal to score 40 goals at 39. That's an enormous deal. Now he's not only on pace to do it, but he's on pace to do it, having missed 16 games with an injury. So, I mean, you go out to Caps practice and you talk to the people who are out there all the time and you talk to the players. But, but you talk about whether this is a national or a local story. Like they're preparing for the entire sports media of Canada to descend upon this place in March and do what baseball writers did when Barry Bonds was taking on Hank Aaron. Like they're gonna follow him game to game and it's going to be a giant, giant thing.

Tony Kornheiser (37:26)

Do you think he'll break it this year?

Chuck Todd (37:29)

I mean, I said at the beginning of the year that not only was it unlikely, but what it meant was if he was going to score 41 goals this year, that that meant that there's no way the team had a bad year because that would indicate so many other good things were going around that he can't just do it by himself. What's happened is not only is the team good, and I'm not going to get into the minutiae of that, but this is a very good team that is at the top of the league, not only in the standings, but in a bunch of meaningful categories. But so he, he doesn't have to drag them to, you know, wins or goals or whatever, but also he's not being dragged by them. So it's a long winded way of saying that what I thought was 90, 95% unlikely, even if he had played 82 games now seems more probable by the night because he just keeps scoring. Before he got injured, the night he got injured, he SC scored two goals. The game before, he had had a hat trick. So that was five goals in two games. And then he got hurt. He comes back the first night, he gets another empty netter. Last on. Yeah, I guess it was yesterday. He scored in the first period. I'm kind of a classic. I'm Alex Ovechkin, the greatest goal scorer in history, kind of kind of goal. I am done betting against this guy. I, I can't guarantee he's. He's going to do it because the pace seems, on the face of it, unsustainable. But he's ahead. He has to score fewer goals per game for the rest of the season than he has over the course of his career, which is like more than 0.6 goals per game. I think he. I did the math the other day. It's. It's 0.5 goals and change that he has to score over the rest of the season. So all he has to be is who he's always been and he has the record. This is an astonishing set of circumstances to say that about.

Tony Kornheiser (39:30)

I am reminded of Hank Aaron that when he went to break Babe Ruth's record, he didn't get it in the September of one year and then had to get it at the beginning of next year, which I don't think would surprise anyone, but I wonder about the sort of romance here that is Alex Ovechkin, the kind of guy who would say, you know, I don't need this. I got as close as I want to get, and Wayne Gretzky is the greatest player of all time and I'm done. I'm not going to do it. Do you have any thought that that might happen? Total romance, obviously.

Chuck Todd (40:01)

I mean, think, like, is there. Is there less than zero?

Tony Kornheiser (40:05)

Okay.

Chuck Todd (40:06)

The romance for him is breaking it. And I think the fact that it's happening in a season when the team is absolutely excelling is like the chase is no longer has just a life of its own. And it was going to be kind of, you know, last year, it almost felt like a bit of a burden because the team struggled to score goals. They were on the fringes of the playoff race. They had to keep running. This guy out there, he started off over the first half of the season on his slowest pace.

Tony Kornheiser (40:37)

Yes, he did.

Chuck Todd (40:38)

It looked like he was done. Can. Can this happen? Like, and what sort of obligation does the team have to allowing him to try while also trying to put itself in position to actually be successful and make another run at a. At a Cup? Now they've. They've kind of rejiggered on the fly. And these two pursuits, a deep playoff run and. And the record can happen side by side, which is exactly how you would want it. Every goal that Alex Ovechkin scores now moves him closer to Gretzky, obviously. But every goal that Alex Ovechkin scores is enormously helpful to the Washington Capitals as they pursue one of the top seeds in the East. And I would just say this, Tony, like, in a way that is not selfish. He cares about this record and his. His legacy. He's got the one Stanley Cup. It would be huge if he could get another run to a final, because that matters in evaluating hockey players. But if you run the numbers, and I'm not saying Gretzky wasn't the best goal scorer, and he obviously has a million more assists and more points and. And all of that, and was just a totally different player. But it also was at a different time. It is, over the course of Vechkin's career, fundamentally harder to score goals in the NHL than it was when Gretzky played in the. Mostly in the wide open 80s, when it was not atypical for games to be 6 to 5 and 5 to 4. Obviously, there are games like that in the modern NHL. It is much more typical to be 3 to 2 and 4 to 3. And that in some ways makes what. What Ovechkin has done again over two decades just amazingly unique and impressive.

Tony Kornheiser (42:31)

I assume that Wayne Gretzky will be there for the last week of the pursuit, unless he's the Prime Minister of Canada at that point, which seems to be being floated in the United States of America, but I assume that he will be there Let me, let me shift to the Washington football team. 4 and 13 last year, 11 and 5 at the moment, makes the playoffs. They make the playoffs. There's a lot of people you can give credit to. General manager, of course, coach who could be coach of the year. I mean, him or Harbaugh could certainly be coach of the year. Dan Quinn, Cliff Kingsbury working with Jaden Daniels. But the most credit has to go to Jaden Daniels, right? I mean, he's great at the moment, right?

Chuck Todd (43:15)

Transcendent. And, and with him, they're never out of it. Anything is possible. There's just a swagger. And not because he is one of these in your face, swaggery kind of. Of players, but just, you know, we've all seen it with players, particularly quarterbacks, obviously, through the years, that when they get the ball with X amount of time left, you just say, whoa, the other team left him too much time. He didn't close it out last night in regulation. But when they won that coin toss and took the ball, you just kind of thought, well, there's every chance that the Falcons are never going to see it again. And that's. That's what happened. He's got that ability to slow it down when it should be speeding up. And then last night, I think if you're an opposing. The defensive coordinator who flips on the film of last night, it wasn't the prettiest thing. He didn't have the flashiest passing numbers. But you're also like, how in the world do I account for him as a runner? Because these plays are breaking down and we've done our job. And he just gained 16 yards. I mean, he, he ran 16 times for 127 yards last night. As a quarterback, some of that was designed. Most of it was improvised. When that's a potential. On any play that he can turn a loss into a huge gain, it just feels like he's, as Dan Quinn said, he is a dangerous, dangerous player. And it just makes Washington. I am not saying they're going to go on the road and win a playoff game, you know, particularly if it's in Philadelphia or Detroit. But they're not going to be an easy out. And this feels like the transformation of a franchise is not just about this year, but it's a sustainable transformation into the future because they have the right guy.

Tony Kornheiser (45:21)

As long as he's healthy. As long as he's healthy and people are going to want to play with him, it's going to be easier to attract free agents because they're going to want to play with this guy. And all you have to do is try to not get him hurt. And it, you know, the runs that you look at, he's not, he's not putting himself in tremendous jeopardy. He doesn't seem to be, you know, he seems to know what he's doing and he seems to get to the sideline a lot.

Chuck Todd (45:48)

He got, he, he got folded up near the goal. I saw that late last night, that he took a pretty good shot to the ribs and, and seemed like, you know, there. I think everybody kind of holds their collective breath because I think we've talked about this before. There is the pall of Robert Griffin, third, who in 2012 had a similar, similarly meteoric rookie season. But I would say I think they're, they're different players because of what you pointed out. Like, he does protect himself better. He is shiftier. He makes people miss in a way. And he, he's shown a smartness about getting down and getting out of bounds. Does that mean he's going to go through his whole career healthy? It certainly doesn't, but he's, he's got a savvy and he prepares so hard that I think he's going to do the best he can and not put himself in peril.

Tony Kornheiser (46:42)

It's a remarkable turnaround. It's remarkable. Snyder's name is not even mentioned anymore. I mean, it's not the first year. People have to remember this. Last year was the new ownership, but it's the, it appears to be the dawn of a new era on all levels. And now, and if you'd have to care about what I'm going to say now, and I don't think people outside of Washington will. There's a remarkable story in the Washington Post about how this came out three or four days ago, about how in the middle of the night, basically, they got the opportunity to build a stadium at the RFK site again. That's a great piece of reporting. You read that, right? It's great.

Chuck Todd (47:21)

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Totally fascinating combination of local and national politics that shows other people how we in the District of Columbia are subjected to the whims of senators and lawmakers from across the country to determine what happens on land within our boundaries. But I digress, I would say, about the transformation. Yes, last year was Josh Harris's first year as owner, but they took over in July and they just kept everything. They kept it, let him, let it play out. So in some senses, from a football operations standpoint, this is the first year of the new regime. It's the first off season that they got to go do what they wanted to do and they hired the people that they, they wanted to hire. And just in terms of how transformative this is or how different it is, I mean, I love making references to the bandwagon season on your show because it's such a seminal thing about the Washington Post sports department and the football team in this town. The 1991 Super bowl season when they went 14 2, that's their last 11 win season. 1991. Every other NFL franchise since that season, and I'm talking about Jacksonville and Houston and Las Vegas, slash Oakland. Every other franchise has had at least two since.

Tony Kornheiser (48:51)

Wow.

Chuck Todd (48:52)

So they have wandered in the wilderness for 30 something years. Their last playoff win came in 2005 when Joe Gibbs was here for, for round two under Daniel Snyder. I would say that this Monday morning before New Year's, 2025. I can't imagine there has been a big picture, more optimistic time since those days when Gibbs was taking him on deep playoff runs all the time because of the combination of new owner, grown up general manager, coach who seems to have dialed in the right vibe in the locker room, and more than that, the quarterback who could be here for a long time.

Tony Kornheiser (49:39)

Yeah, it really, I didn't realize that that was the last time they had 11. That's, that's really a long time because I don't think of them as losers the way I think of other teams as losers, but they were losers. They were, they were losers.

Chuck Todd (49:52)

They were right there at the bottom with the worst of them all.

Tony Kornheiser (49:54)

They were losers. So now it looks very good. Looks good. Thank you, Barry. Thank you. Thank you.

Chuck Todd (49:59)

Appreciate it, Tony.

Tony Kornheiser (50:00)

Barry's verluga, boys and girls. Wonderful columnist in the Washington Post. We'll take a break. We'll come back with email and jingle. I'm Tony Kornheiser. This episode is brought to you by Google Gemini. With the Gemini app, you can talk live and have a real time conversation.

Unknown (50:14)

With an AI assistant.

Tony Kornheiser (50:15)

It's great for all kinds of things, like if you want to practice for an upcoming interview, ask for advice on things to do in a new city or brainstorm creative ideas. And by the way, this script was actually read by Gemini. Download the Gemini app for iOS and Android today. Must be 18 to use Gemini live. You're listening to the Tony Kornheiser show.

Unknown (50:36)

The Tony Kornheiser show.

Tony Kornheiser (50:46)

Here comes Tony's mail bag, email, faxes and notes. Here comes Tony Mayo Baz gonna read some for all of you folk.

Unknown (51:10)

He's gonna read some for all of you folk.

Tony Kornheiser (51:16)

That's Pat Bears. And we will get to Pat Bears and a second. But we want to go through the protocol of closing the show. You want to do the Bethesda Bagel, please?

Barry Zverluga (51:25)

Yes, Bethesda Bagel. We love them. You will as well. Got the bagel sandwiches today. Very excited about that.

Tony Kornheiser (51:30)

Exciting.

Barry Zverluga (51:30)

Just go to bethesdabagal.com for the location in the DC area nearest you. Then pop on and you'll be thrilled. And yes, they will be open on New Year's Day.

Tony Kornheiser (51:37)

So of course they're open.

Barry Zverluga (51:37)

Yeah. Open every day of the year.

Tony Kornheiser (51:39)

Of course they're open.

Barry Zverluga (51:39)

Head on it.

Tony Kornheiser (51:40)

It's going to do it for us today. Before we get to Mailbag, let me just say OC CC Rider, I said see what you have done. See Cece Ryder, See what you have done now you made me love you now, now, now your man is gone. That is in itself. CC Rider is a song. It's also the beginning of Jenny Take a Jenny Take a Ride. This is great. Jenny, Jenny, Jenny, Jenny Take a Ride with Me by Mitch Ryder and the.

Barry Zverluga (52:00)

Detroit who's 62200, right?

Tony Kornheiser (52:02)

Yeah. 62200. Our thanks to Michael Wilbon and Barry's Verluga. Thanks as well to today's sponsors. Remember, you can listen to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and order if you get show through Apple. Please leave us a review. Now back to Pat Loyal little here. Pat writes, I must admit that I listen to plenty of podcasts, always have since the beginning of podcasting. But now with over 3 million available, I always wonder if anyone else listens to the mix that I do. A few weeks ago a listener told you about a Flush the Mouse moment on the Never Not Funny podcast. The guitar player from the band Dawes was on and the host, Jimmy Pardo says, last time you were on the show I learned a new phrase. You really flushed the mouse on this. I heard that show as well. And then later that same day, I'm listening to Marc Maron's WTF podcast. Langston Kerman, a young stand up, was on and they were talking about how they got into the business. MARIN did you go to college? KERMAN University of Michigan. I was an English major. I really like poetry, but that pays less than stand up. MARIN Me too. There's no money in it. Who were your favorites? KERMAN I don't know, but to me the poetry of yesteryear felt cooler. Marin like who? KERMAN Sharon Olds is really big for me. Terrence Hayes is really big for me and Louise Gluck was one of my professors. My little mind snaps to attention. Marin oh really? Like he's really impressed. Kerman yeah, she passed away last year. That was crazy. I was listening with earbuds and started laughing out loud. My wife says, what's so funny? I said, me. I just heard something on Marc Maron show that connects with Tony Korniser show. And on Jimmy Pardo's show someone said wife. Oh, never mind. Stop me cold. But I was still smiling. God Bass this is for Michael from Kelly Hodges in Pocatello, Idaho. Team Summer or Team Marissa? What does that mean?

Chuck Todd (53:35)

I love this show.

Tony Kornheiser (53:37)

Sometimes he's a younger man. From Scott McClure in South Burlington, Vermont, a University of Vermont alum catamounts Marissa, we all know Michael is smart. You don't go to Penn if you're some rum dumb. But at no time has Michael demonstrated his wisdom more than on Friday's show when he deftly dodged a question threw at him. Who's a bigger star, Beyonce or Taylor Swift? I could almost see Michael's knuckles whiten as you toss that grenade of a question to him. But rather than panic, Michael calmly retorted with a massive superstar. What a massive superstar Beyonce has been. Without giving the nod to either Beyonce or Taylor as reigning supreme. That diplomatic answer avoided a potential catastrophe with the Beehive. Is that what it's called? Yes, with the Beehive and the Swifties, which would have buried the mailbox for the next two years with vitriol if he had taken a stand on either side of that unwanted winnable debate. Well done, Michael. I, of course, had no idea about that either. None whatsoever. From Abraham in Silver Spring, Maryland in case you were still curious, Riz is derived from charisma, and Urban Dictionary defines it as the ability to confidently approach people and talk to them in a more romantic or flirty way. While I can't speak on if you have Riz or not, I assume you have aura, a slang term that describes a person's overall vibe, energy, or personality. It can also refer to someone's IT factor and is similar to the concept of swagger. For example, if someone has aura, it means they are so cool you can feel their presence when they enter a room. A good litmus test of your aura would be going into a coffee shop, presumably with the intent to pay with nothing but loose change and be baffled when the cashier says they don't accept coins and see if people stop and stare when you walk in There isn't thinking to themselves the following three things. One, that guy must be somebody important because. Because he has aura. Two, isn't that guy Tony Kornheiser, PTI guy?

Unknown (55:19)

Okay.

Tony Kornheiser (55:20)

Three, who is the muppet that just walked in from Joe in Fredericksburg? Here's some advice from a local, but it may require you to consult a good atlas. The woman to whom I'm related by marriage and I have perfected this route while traveling from her hometown in Voorhees, New Jersey to our home in Fredericksburg, Virginia. The best way to avoid I95 traffic north of and through Fredericksburg is come down Route 301 through the Delmarva. You want to get off I95 onto Route 1 at the Christiana Mall in Delaware. I know that. And continue south until you cross the Chesapeake and Delaware Canal, at which point you will get onto 301 South. Take 301 south until you pick up Route 50 at Mr. Tony's favorite landmark, the Bay Bridge. Continue on Route 50 until you get to Bowie, Maryland, and then on to Route 301 south towards Waldorf, Maryland. At this point, you continue on 301, cross the mighty Potomac into Virginia. Once you get to Bowling Green, Virginia, you can pick up either I95 or you can alternatively stay on Route 301 south until you reach the Richmond Beltway near Mechanicstown.

Chuck Todd (56:15)

Yeah, I could have used this a.

Tony Kornheiser (56:15)

Couple years ago when 95 was shut down and I took that exit to try and get back home.

Barry Zverluga (56:20)

Total time yesterday.

Tony Kornheiser (56:21)

You want to take a guess? It's a long trip. Yeah. 8, 45. 8 for I've got kids.

Chuck Todd (56:26)

I can't make it at 8. 45.

Tony Kornheiser (56:28)

9, 25. Under nine hours. We got off in Spotsylvania to take.

Barry Zverluga (56:32)

One for about 10 minutes to avoid a slowdown that happens every time when.

Tony Kornheiser (56:36)

You'Re in that pocket of Virginia as you're entering Ashland.

Barry Zverluga (56:38)

And then we have the eternal debate, when do you get on the expressways.

Tony Kornheiser (56:41)

To get back to the city? What is the correct number?

Chuck Todd (56:43)

We.

Tony Kornheiser (56:43)

We waited two exits to get on. About 20 bucks, but worth it. Okay.

Barry Zverluga (56:47)

And don't you want to give some praise to your wife for being on top of the weather? Honestly, she's like a tornado watcher. We were an hour in front of the storms the entire day and she's.

Tony Kornheiser (56:55)

Just pulling up different 24 hour radar. Blue sky in the morning in Washington. I was stunned. I sent Liz a text about that. There's blue skies and that was done when you got back. But there was blue skies for a while. Don Ames Kingston in Ontario in Canada on Friday show an emailer noted that Saturn will be turning, causing its rings to disappear from view. While this is unfortunate, I can confirm we still see Uranus never Not funny From Neil Airvase in Littleton, Colorado Is is my duty as a loyal little to fact check Tony. I have to question his pronouncement that everyone has had a TV since 1940 has ABC. Are you sure that your neighbor who apparently does not have CBS somehow is abc? That's good point. Curious minds want to know. I'll hang up and listen for an update. Good. Fair point. Andy from Apopka, Florida Is it just me? Was anybody else expecting Nigel to say that he met Beyonce while getting Reginald's picks at the zoo with Betty White, Helen Mirren and Bud Grant in attendance playing game of Monopoly from Justin Winkleman in Titusville, Florida Just catching up to some podcasts around the holiday. What Tim Kirchen did in the opening segment talking about the greatness of Ricky Henderson was an extremely impressive conversation to listen to. Tim is rattling off numerous career stats for Ricky, Barry Bonds and other greats from rote memory, just as if he would if he was talking about his favorite color, food, multiplication table or anything else we have ready for immediate recall. I can't even tell you my own personal stats, like how many emails I've had read. It's more than five. It's less than 11 from Scott Organic, not that organic in Avon, Connecticut. Avon, Connecticut, home of Norby Williamson oh, that's right. I wrote to you a while back asking you to thank DG for allowing me to use your Fast Pass in 2022. Could you pass on another message thanking him for the Rehoboth beach parking pass this past summer? That saved me quite a bit of money and of course, eat at Dave Patton and Bob Walsh. Tony Lutz, Redmond, Oregon Caleb Williams before season told rookie punter Tori Taylor, hey, you're not going to punt too much here. Caleb Williams, Thursday vs. The Seahawks 122 yards Passing Punta Tory Taylor, 7 punts, 327 yards for the season, Williams has passed for 3,515 yards. Taylor is punted for 3,984 yards. What is the punter equivalent of a Tommy John injury? Season's greetings and Happy New Year to everyone. And we're hoping to get many more years of orange greatness. Bill Pitcher, Our Organist Coreyville, PA the folks running the red light cameras in Wilmington, DE must be the same people who run the Rehoboth Water Department. I got a ticket worth fighting back in June. I'd only entered the intersection to avoid being hit by another car. And it's all on camera, their camera. But you can't plead not guilty. You are guilty, says the city. You can appeal. And I tried, but it took six months to get a response, and that response was a court date. So either I can pay $130 plus late fees or take half a day off from work and drive to Delaware, right? Wrong. I went online to pay angrily and learned once an appeal has started, you have to to go to court. And if you don't, your car registration will be suspended. All I was trying to do was avoid getting hit by a car. There's got to be something if it's on the camera. If you can say, just look at the footage.

Barry Zverluga (59:57)

Yeah.

Tony Kornheiser (59:58)

Patrick Sitter S who falls, South Dakota as another year of the Tony Kornheiser show draws to a close, One question from 2024 remains unanswered. How much was the BLT?

Unknown (60:08)

35 bucks.

Tony Kornheiser (60:09)

It's really a lot of money. And from Jeff Barger in Hillsborough, North Carolina is the new game Clothing analytics Are we figuring out the war wears above replacements for garments? How long before Wilbon rails about fashion being ruined by analytics? I will hang up and listen if you're out on your bike tonight. Everyone, as always, do wear what today for the podcast we'll be recording about baseball.

Barry Zverluga (60:36)

It.

Tony Kornheiser (62:20)

SA.

Barry Zverluga (66:40)

I would.

Tony Kornheiser (66:44)

Without you. You are the sunshine, you are the.

Barry Zverluga (67:05)

Wind Shine.

Tony Kornheiser (67:12)

Season change in the passage of time.

Barry Zverluga (67:19)

How it moves I would wither without you. You are the rainfall.

Chuck Todd (67:43)

You are the garden.

Tony Kornheiser (67:46)

Whoa, flowers bloom and the weeds grow.

Barry Zverluga (67:55)

So tall.

Tony Kornheiser (67:59)

Just like they do without you Sa.

Unknown (68:57)

SA.