“We have a Gnome for you”

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Tony Kornheiser Show – “We Have a Gnome for You” (April 28, 2025)

In the April 28, 2025 episode of "The Tony Kornheiser Show," host Tony Kornheiser engages in a multifaceted discussion covering significant sports events, personal anecdotes, and tributes. Joined by regular guests Michael Wilbon and Mark Feinsand, the trio navigates through topics ranging from the passing of NBA legend Dick Barnett to the intricacies of the NFL draft and the current struggles of the Washington Nationals' bullpen.

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1. Tribute to Dick Barnett

The episode opens with Tony Kornheiser expressing his sorrow over the recent passing of Dick Barnett, a revered figure in New York Knicks history.

Tony Kornheiser [12:44]: "Dick Barnett was everybody who grew up, who's around my age, who loved the Knicks, everybody loved Dick Barnett."

Tony reminisces about Barnett's impactful career, highlighting his role in the Knicks' first NBA championship and his legacy as a beloved player known for his smart gameplay and leadership both on and off the court.

Guest Speaker [21:16]: "Dick Barnett was such a learned and scholarly man... he was a great basketball player and a great person."

The conversation underscores Barnett's contributions beyond the game, noting his doctorate in education from Fordham University and his lasting influence on teammates and fans alike.

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2. NFL Draft and the Shador Sanders Controversy

Shifting focus to the NFL, Tony and his guests delve into the unexpected drafting of quarterback Shador Sanders in the fifth round, a move that has sparked widespread debate.

Tony Kornheiser [08:42]: "The story of the draft is one thing, it's Shador Sanders dropping like a stone."

They analyze the reasons behind Sanders' lower draft position despite his impressive college performance, attributing it to a mix of personal criticisms and potential biases within the drafting teams. The discussion touches on allegations of favoritism, referencing Sanders' father, Deion Sanders, and the complications that arise when a player's familial connections influence their draft prospects.

Michael Wilbon [25:24]: "It's a weird story. Culture is one of them. And the NFL and its need to be authoritarian is one of them."

The trio debates the broader implications of such decisions on team dynamics and the player’s career trajectory, with Tony expressing his support for Sanders despite the controversies.

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3. Washington Nationals' Bullpen Struggles

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to the Washington Nationals' recent performances, particularly focusing on the bullpen's inconsistencies that have led to unexpected losses.

Tony Kornheiser [11:07]: "The Nats bullpen rivals the Orioles bullpen. It stinks."

Tony recounts two crucial games where the Nationals squandered leads, emphasizing the bullpen's inability to secure victories despite strong starts. The conversation includes detailed breakdowns of specific pitchers' performances and the strategic decisions that may have contributed to the outcomes.

Mark Feinsand [12:50]: "Finnegan comes in and can never get the first out in an inning. He just cannot get the first out."

They critique the bullpen's statistics, labeling it as the worst in baseball, and discuss potential adjustments or trades that might be necessary to bolster the team's chances in the playoffs.

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4. Highlighting Jalen Brunson's Excellence

In contrast to the Nationals' bullpen woes, the discussion shifts to celebrating the remarkable performance of Jalen Brunson, lauding him as a standout player who could significantly impact the Knicks' success.

Tony Kornheiser [35:00]: "Jalen Brunson is a beast. ... He runs the game. He's great."

The guests agree on Brunson's pivotal role, comparing his influence to that of other star players and speculating on his future contributions to the team's dynamics and championship aspirations.

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5. Upcoming Segments and Personal Anecdotes

Towards the episode's conclusion, Tony teases future segments, including a recounting of his memorable dinner with Harvey Stenger, the retiring president of Binghamton University. Additionally, Michael Wilbon shares his enriching experience at the Augusta golf tournament, providing listeners with vivid descriptions of the event and personal highlights.

Michael Wilbon [50:44]: "It was three of the great days of my life... seeing Matt Fitzpatrick birdie out of the sand."

These anecdotes offer a personal touch, showcasing the hosts' diverse interests and experiences beyond the immediate scope of sports discussions.

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6. Mother’s Day Reflections

In a heartfelt moment, Tony dedicates a portion of the show to Mother's Day, reflecting on the vital role mothers play in providing support and love.

Tony Kornheiser [15:08]: "Mother's Day is almost here and it's the perfect time to reflect on everything moms do to make life better."

He encourages listeners to honor their mothers with gestures of appreciation, intertwining this message seamlessly into the broader conversation.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Tony Kornheiser [08:42]: "The story of the draft is one thing, it's Shador Sanders dropping like a stone."

• Mark Feinsand [12:50]: "Finnegan comes in and can never get the first out in an inning. He just cannot get the first out."

• Michael Wilbon [25:24]: "Culture is one of them. And the NFL and its need to be authoritarian is one of them."

• Tony Kornheiser [35:00]: "Jalen Brunson is a beast. He runs the game. He's great."

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Conclusion

The episode wraps up with expressions of gratitude towards listeners and sponsors, maintaining its characteristic blend of insightful analysis and personable banter. Tony Kornheiser successfully balances discussions on high-stakes sports topics with personal stories and tributes, ensuring the audience remains engaged and informed throughout.

For those who missed this episode, "We Have a Gnome for You" offers a comprehensive look into the current sports landscape, enriched by the hosts' unique perspectives and camaraderie.

Transcript

[Tony Kornheiser]

Hey, it's Tony. On today's show, we will chat with Michael Wilbon about Shador Sanders Dick Barnett in the NBA playoffs. We'll talk to Mark Feinsand about his trip to Augusta as well as what has stood out to him in the first month of the baseball season. But first, Commerce. Mom, I need to lay low for a few days. Lay low? What's going on? I only paid for this Hyundai Tucson Christopher Allen lynch deal.

[Commercial Voiceover]

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[Tony Kornheiser]

Previously on the Tony Kornheiser Show. By the way, the Orioles pitcher today is a guy named Cade Kovich. Yeah. Is that relation? Is it a relation?

[Michael Wilbon]

No, it's not.

[Tony Kornheiser]

And I want to meet the guy. I mean, he could be distant. Who knows? But no. First of all, do you really think anybody in my father's family would be named Cade? I don't know. Perhaps not. Perhaps not.

[Guest Speaker]

Cade.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, you never know. The Tony Kornheiser show is on now. Can't tell you how many people have told me how much they loved hearing Maury Ponies on the show. Like, just out of the blue people. I thought you listen. Really love Maury. Loved Mori.

[Mark Feinsand]

Got a Mori reference on the Nats broadcast, right? Yes, I was at the game, so I couldn't hear, but yes.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, the game was on and I wasn't in the room at the time. And Carol told me that Dan Coco referred to Maury and I owning a restaurant. So I texted him during the game, of course, and I said, well, you know, the socialite owned the restaurant, too, and Gary owned the restaurant as well. And he writes back, love Chatter. Love to go to Chatter. See you soon, buddy. In the middle of the game. That Was very exciting.

[Mark Feinsand]

He's working on a sign off.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Anyway, we get this relative to what Maury says about Cade Povich from Andy from Apopka, Florida. Does anybody feel like there was a missed opportunity when Maury was addressing whether he was related to Orioles pitcher Cade Povich? Somebody should have yelled, the results are in. Maury, you are not the father. That's funny. That's very funny.

[Mark Feinsand]

Put that on the wedges.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Let me say this, first of all, that we got lovely note from Faith Courville.

[Listener/Caller]

Yes.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Who was the one going to Baylor. Right.

[Listener/Caller]

I believe it's Baylor. Baylor.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yes. She's going to Baylor and marketing major. Just wonderful.

[Listener/Caller]

We're holding out hopes.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Maybe sending us the pictures from her high school graduation.

[Listener/Caller]

Yeah, it's a very lovely thing.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I wanted to thank you again for the show and for reading my email as well as my dad's. Truly is a highlight of my senior year. As such, I wanted to send the show a graduation card. Once again, thanks for the memories. It's really nice. It's, you know, it's really nice.

[Listener/Caller]

She's a good kid.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Well, you know, just think about it. We don't know her, but we, we suspect.

[Listener/Caller]

Yes, we do.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Like. Yes. All right, so there's a lot of things to talk about at the beginning of the show. One or two, actually, entirely unexpected. I was going to talk about my dinner with Harvey Stenger on Saturday night. Harvey is the outgoing retiring president of Binghamton University. And we had dinner and I wanted to talk all about that. And I don't have enough time today to do everything else, so I'll do that. I just won't do that today. I'll do that Wednesday. Now tease that and I'll explain all of it.

[Mark Feinsand]

But that's, you know, burdened me all weekend. Why Cooking times.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Mark Feinsand]

The back and forth between you and Bob.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. To find out how to cook the potatoes in the air fryer. And Michael send us video. And of all the. Anyway, you know, and it involves Hickman's out there at the beach and the great meats that Hickman sells. So I want to talk about the draft. Only because we haven't talked about the draft. And we're not going to talk about the draft if not today. We're really not going to talk about the draft. We're not going back into that. Right. It's an unknowable thing. You're not going to know for years who did well and who didn't do well. But the story. And we'll get to this in a second. The story of the draft is one thing, it's Shador Sanders. Everything else is hinky dinky compared to Shador Sanders dropping into the fifth round. And talk about that. Dick Barnett died the lead guard on the first NBA championship for the New York Knickerbockers. And I need to talk about that. D.C. is going ahead with plans to build a new football stadium on the RFK site, which is only what everybody wants. Everybody except potentially the communists in the city council who are going to try and derail it and put something else there that nobody wants. Nobody. So we'll just see if the communists and the city council are able to do that.

[Mark Feinsand]

But that Final Four or if the.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Will of the people survives. Yes. You know, and we get, we get a stadium and. Because that would be lovely and you wouldn't have to go out to where you have to go out.

[Listener/Caller]

It's such a lovely game day experience. So is it still called FedEx? I'm not even sure.

[Mark Feinsand]

Northwest.

[Listener/Caller]

Northwest, that's right.

[Tony Kornheiser]

It's gotta go away.

[Mark Feinsand]

The best is the evening games, is you do the flyovers around the city and you go. It's nowhere near the field.

[Tony Kornheiser]

No, no, no. All right, let me talk about Dick Barnett first. Dick Barnett was a left handed shooting guard, two guard to Walt Frazier's one guard, six, one, six two. Dick Barnett, older than most of the guy, died yesterday at 88 years old, older than most of the Knicks on that particular team. And whenever Dick Barnett, he came over, he didn't start in the NBA, if I'm not mistaken. He started in another professional league, came over to the NBA, got to the Knicks eventually and when he released the shot, he said, fall back baby. Which meant this shot's going in so all your teammates fall back, baby. And that was Dick Barnett, later got a doctorate in education from Fordham University. It's great player. Just a great player in the second Knicks championship team. He was not the Adirondack Monroe by then. So Dick Barnett by that point in his career was not a fringe player, was a great player, but was not a starting guard, giving you 32 to 35 minutes a game. But Dick Barnett, everybody who grew up, who's around my age, who loved the Knicks, everybody loved Dick Barnett. So I wanted to mention that I'm not going to be on the PTI show today. I'm taking the day off so that Michael and I can play golf. Very happy to do so, but normally I would have written, you know, a melancholy trails to Dick Barnett. So I'm just telling it to you now.

[Listener/Caller]

Did I. Did I see that he scored like 21 points in that the. The Frazier game? Don't know, but it seemed like he had great player. Yeah, it seemed like he was.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay. The starting lineup is Willis Reed, the captain in the middle, David Buscher, power forward, Bill Bradley, small forward, Walt Frazier, lead guard, point guard, Dick Barnett, two guard. That's the lineup. Like everybody knows that. Everybody knows that. It was the greatest shooting team of all time in the NBA. Every single person on the team could shoot. They passed, they shot. They were not large. They were not large even for standards then. They were certainly tiny for standards now. But people get bigger and faster. Look, basketball players now are better than they've ever been. They're unbelievably good. They're so good that they need to change the game because they're that good. They make shot after shot after shot. In those days, there were frailties to people's games. You know, not everybody was perfect. So a great team meant something. The Knicks were a great team. Two championships. Haven't gotten one since. So I don't know, 50, 60 years, whatever it is, not getting one this year either, kids. Although Jalen Brunson's a great player. Yeah, he's a great player, all right. The. The draft. The whole story of the draft is Shador Sanders dropping like a stone. This was not predicted. Some people may have predicted he would go late in the first round or fall through the first round. Nobody predicted he would go. Would they go the fifth?

[Listener/Caller]

Yeah, I believe so.

[Tony Kornheiser]

What quarterback was he picked? Seven, eight, something like that? He was picked by Cleveland behind another quarterback, Dylan somebody or other from Oregon. I mean, he was. He fell down. I don't know why he fell down. I've read a lot of stuff about it. I think it's a combination of a bunch of things. There is talk now, and you need to understand how this works. There is talk now to justify the positions of people not taking him in the way that there was talk by Nico Harrison, sub rosa to justify getting rid of Luka Doncic and that so they spread these things. Bad stuff about Shador Sanders. He backpedals too much. 6, QB picked, 6th pick. Supposed to be no worse than the second. He backpedals too much. He's arrogant. He doesn't have a great arm. Is all of this stuff you're going to hear now. Although that didn't stop the Cleveland Browns from taking him when they took him. Right. And the other part about it is Deion. And you say, well, what does Deion have to do with it? Well, it's pretty simple. You draft Shador Sanders. He doesn't perform the way you want him to perform. Somebody stands up and says, well, he played great for his father, which he did. His numbers are great. I watched him. He was really good. He performed great for his father. Why don't you fire this guy and bring in his father? No coach wants that. No GM wants that. Do you avoid that by just not having this kid? It's pretty simple. That's how it works. You get around it. Now, look, a lot of teams that needed quarterbacks. The Pittsburgh Steelers need a quarterback. They don't know if Aaron Rodgers is going to play. They need a quarterback. They didn't take this kid for five rounds. Somebody else finally took him in the division. By the way, Cleveland. The New York Giants signed a bunch of quarterbacks. Did they take a quarterback at some point? They took a quarterback. Jackson, Darts and dart in the second round? Yeah. They didn't take this kid. First round. First round, yeah. New Orleans needs a quarterback. They didn't take this kid. Now they're. Seattle needs a quarterback. Really? They didn't take this kid. There are other teams need quarterbacks. Didn't take him. You know who the jets have? They have a quarterback.

[Listener/Caller]

The jets have Justin Fields, I believe.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay, okay. You know, but teams that needed a quarterback didn't take this kid. There's a variety of reasons why.

[Mark Feinsand]

And there's a flurry of kids taken directly after in that sixth round when it felt sort of okay to go back to the board.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, yeah. And then somebody hacked his phone and made fun of him. The son of.

[Listener/Caller]

Of defensive coordinator for the Falcons.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I think that's bad.

[Listener/Caller]

Oh, it's terrible.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's bad. You know, you can't apologize enough for that. Yeah. You know, the defensive coordinator, he's in some trouble because his kid did this.

[Listener/Caller]

I would think so.

[Tony Kornheiser]

He's in some trouble even though his kid is not 12 years old or something like that. Anyway, so that's. That's the entire story of the draft as far as I'm concerned. And now I have to get to the Nats. The Nats. The Nats won two games on Friday and Sunday that were impossible to win. First to home, the Nats bullpen on Friday, they have a three nothing lead. Who was the pitcher?

[Mark Feinsand]

I don't remember at that point.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Was it Irvin? Jake Irvin. Oh, yeah. Jake Irvin. Another great starting performance. Like no runs through seven and a third Something like that. They bring in Jose A. Ferrer, the worst. He's the worst and he can't do anything about it. And they bring in Finnegan, who immediately, of course, gives up a hit. They give up in the bottom. In the top of the eighth inning. They give up four runs. They're down four three. Can't win the game, right? Is it the top of the eighth or top of the ninth when they do this? Top of the eighth, right?

[Guest Speaker]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

They can't win the game. They win the game. They win the game. Cruz and Wood and Abrams. They win the game. It's a walk. Off you go. Wow. Didn't expect that yesterday. Much more impossible for the Nats to win. Nats down 71 after the second inning.

[Mark Feinsand]

They're down 6, 6 1.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's down.

[Mark Feinsand]

I just love how you gloss over a very strong performance by the bullpen in between in a loss.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Very good.

[Guest Speaker]

What?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Was Ferrer in the game?

[Mark Feinsand]

I'll go back.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Was Finnegan in the game? Sims was in the game. Was Pooch in the game? I don't know.

[Listener/Caller]

By the way, we. We have a musical ode to Pooch later on.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's good. So then yesterday, 7:1, and the Mets go to their bullpen. The Mets bullpen rivals the Nats bullpen. It stinks.

[Mark Feinsand]

Riley Adams had one hit on the ear for a three run. Home run.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Home run. So they get to seven, six. At the end of seven or the end of eight.

[Mark Feinsand]

That is at the end of seven. At the end of seven to. That gets them to six. Yeah. Seven six.

[Tony Kornheiser]

And then bottom nine. They win the game. They win the game on a bizarre play. Pete Alonzo trying to field.

[Mark Feinsand]

Alex Call once again comes through.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Alex Call should play every single day. Any batting over.300?

[Mark Feinsand]

I'll pull it up.

[Tony Kornheiser]

What more do you want from Alex Call? So Pete Alonso makes terrible throw to a pitcher. Covering. Yeah.

[Listener/Caller]

Like way over his head.

[Tony Kornheiser]

C.J. abrams, I think scores all the way from the dugout. I'm not sure he was on bench.

[Listener/Caller]

I don't think C.J.

[Mark Feinsand]

Abrams has stopped running this weekend.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I think he's just running. He's just running.

[Mark Feinsand]

And Alex Call will run through a wall if you let him.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yes, yes. What's he batting?

[Mark Feinsand]

I'll pull it up for you.

[Tony Kornheiser]

You said that about a minute ago.

[Mark Feinsand]

You're going. You're scattered. Okay.

[Listener/Caller]

And I just want to address it. Jose Ferra, is that.

[Tony Kornheiser]

He pronounced Jose A. Ferrero. Right.

[Listener/Caller]

So he might not be a good pitcher, but he's.

[Tony Kornheiser]

No, he's not.

[Listener/Caller]

He's a terrific actor.

[Tony Kornheiser]

He's been a good actor. Great nican Music forever.

[Mark Feinsand]

Yeah.327.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Alex Cole's batting.327. Why is he not in the lineup?

[Listener/Caller]

Put him into play.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. Come on.

[Guest Speaker]

So.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So they win that cruise with the.

[Mark Feinsand]

Ryan Zimmerman special hitting the home run in flowers.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Home run. They have reached the point where, you know, my friend, lol, they are fun.

[Mark Feinsand]

And chaotic to watch.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yes. That's. Those are absolutely the right words. Fun and chaotic. My friend LOL Singer. You know, you'll look back on this game if the Nats go on a run. I wrote them back. The Nats aren't going on a run. They're not going on a run. But it was wonderful.

[Mark Feinsand]

The best is we're at a. We're at a preschool get together and there's just a group of dads who are standing there and we keep looking at phones, watches to get these scoring updates and everyone's just looking around in disbelief because it's a game. You sort of felt, all right, I watched the start of it, but I know how this is going to end. And we haven't gotten to the bullpen yet.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Right.

[Mark Feinsand]

And then there's a chance.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Right. So just so crazy. Two games have no right to win. This has to kill. They play another game today?

[Listener/Caller]

Yes.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Why is there a Monday game?

[Listener/Caller]

Bizarre.

[Tony Kornheiser]

You know. Yeah, the Mets probably will win this one. Or is it Gore? I'll put it.

[Listener/Caller]

But if. I mean to take three out of four from the Mets who are playing.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So well, I don't expect three out of four. Yeah, the Mets are playing well. We'll talk to Fine sand about. Yeah. About how well they're playing.

[Mark Feinsand]

They have Williams today.

[Tony Kornheiser]

This is. Okay. Trevor Williams, that's his name. It's just very. And they didn't yesterday, they finally got a bad performance out of a starter. They hadn't. They'd gone weeks with good performances. They won that game. Yeah, they were out of that game. Completely out of the game.

[Listener/Caller]

Bulpen did its job.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, well, it's easier at 7:1, isn't it? You know, it's easier when there's nothing on the line. There was nothing on the line for the bullpen. Right. Nothing. You know, and it's not even. It's not even a save situation because they win. It's a walk off situation. So whoever. Who was in the game in the ninth, who got the win? Lopez. Right. Lopez got the win. But if Lopez had to go out there again, they'd have lost. All right, so that's the beginning of the show. At some point we will have Wilbourne. At some point we'll have fine sand. Wilbourne will probably be next. Yes, I'm Tony Kornheiser. This is the Tony Kornheiser Show. Mother's Day is almost here and it's the perfect time to reflect on everything moms do to make life better. Whether it's the home cooked meals, the endless support, or those little moments of wisdom, moms always find a way to show up. Maybe it's bringing over your favorite food without being asked. Maybe it's how just being in her house makes everything feel right. Or how she still believes you can do absolutely anything. And yes, some moms even treat the family dog like their grandchildren. So this year, send her happy flowers for Happy Mother's Day from the Bouc's company that's short for bouquets. And I've got 25% off for you too, so you can spread that happy around. Boucs aren't your typical flowers. They're cut fresh from top quality farms, which means they're bigger, more vibrant and last way longer. Some are even grown on the side of a volcano. No kidding. Pick a cheerful bouquet or send a flower subscription so mom gets fresh blooms again and again. It's easy. Just choose your flowers, select a delivery date and you're done. And why stop with mom? Share the love with aunts, grandmas, wives, anyone who deserves it. Mother's Day is May 11th, so don't wait. Go to boox.com, use the promo code Tony for 25% off. That's B O U Q S.com promo code Tony. Use the code people.

[Michael Wilbon]

Ryan Reynolds here from IT Mobile.

[Mark Feinsand]

I don't know if you knew this but anyone can get the same Premium.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Wireless for $15 a month plan that I've been enjoying.

[Mark Feinsand]

It's not just for celebrities. So do like I and have one.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Of your assistant's assistants switch you to Mint Mobile today.

[Michael Wilbon]

I'm told it's super easy to [e-mail].

[Tony Kornheiser]

Switch upfront payment of $45 for 3 month plan equivalent to $15 per month required intro rate first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See full [e-mail] this is the Tony Kornheiser show. We played songs last week by Egono. Yes, and we have one more by Igono. This is called down for imperfect. Something like that. Yes, and they will be. He will be playing. It's his name is Brandon but he goes by Egono. He'll be playing May 18 at 1 to 3 at the Riverfront Park Amphitheater in Miamisburg, Ohio. Lovely, lovely songs.

[Listener/Caller]

Yes.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Michael, if people like Igono want to send in their original music, how do they do it?

[Mark Feinsand]

Send us your music by emailing it to jinglesonycornizershow.com do you want to do a Johnny Owen?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Oh, yes.

[Mark Feinsand]

It's patio season.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Mark Feinsand]

Bring out the cushions. TK Cushions. They're celebrating their 20th year. I think they have some. They have some fun items that are back in the. In the shop. The original polo.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. Michael Wilbon joins us, and we'll talk about the NBA playoffs a little bit. But there are two things for me, the passing of Dick Barnett. For me, Dick Barnett was sort of like maybe Norm Van Leer was for you. Do you know what I mean? Like, yeah, from the. You from your youth. Somebody who was not necessarily the best player on the team, certainly not the best player in the Knicks, but somebody who you. If you were a real fan, you really liked this guy. Dick Barnett was that guy for me. Was Van Leer that guy for you, Tony?

[Guest Speaker]

You know what? I knew I can remember Dick Barnett. I'm gonna get this wrong. I'm gonna ask you anyway. Did he wear number six?

[Tony Kornheiser]

I don't think so. I don't think he did not.

[Guest Speaker]

Okay. You know, he did.

[Michael Wilbon]

Okay.

[Guest Speaker]

But Dick Barnett was such a. A learned.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I thought he wore 20 guy. Dick Barnett wore a 12 or 12.

[Guest Speaker]

Okay.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Guest Speaker]

Scholarly man. Yes. I met him, you know, relatively early in his retirement, like, so. Like. Like 35, 40 years ago. Anyway, I was just, like, impressed that that person was Dick Barnack. You know what I mean? That. That. And obviously you know this because you do that. You knew those five guys well, all seven or eight of them. Such a smart team, such bright people, such accomplished men, separately from having played, you know, great basketball for great championship Knicks teams. Dick Barnett. So I did not realize that really.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Smart guy Phil Jackson was on those teams. Really smart guy Bill Bradley. Really smart guy Willis Reed. Dave DeBusscher. Great athletes and really smart. Really smart. And Dave DeBusscher became the commissioner of the ABA.

[Guest Speaker]

I mean, that's right.

[Tony Kornheiser]

It was just. It's. It's an. It's a team. You know, I would say the IQ of that team was pretty high basketball IQ and regular IQ.

[Guest Speaker]

In real life.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. Yeah, real life. So. Yeah, real life.

[Guest Speaker]

Thank you. Sorry to hear that, Tony.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. All right.

[Guest Speaker]

We'll get you how many. How many of the members of that team are still with us.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Dylan and Frazier is all I know Bradley and Frazier. I don't know that anyone else is still around. Well, Phil. We know Phil.

[Guest Speaker]

We know Phil and Phil.

[Michael Wilbon]

Yes.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, Phil is still around. And also I said this at the beginning of the show. We're not. I'm not going back into the NFL draft. Nobody understands the NFL draft until three years down the road. Not going back into it. I don't know anything about it. But I will say that the biggest story, and it was Shador Sanders, you and I have talked about this. That's the biggest story. What, what are your, what are your thoughts on that? I find myself now rooting for this kid. I do. I want to see him be great.

[Guest Speaker]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Although not for Cleveland, because I hate Cleveland.

[Guest Speaker]

You know, he may not even get to be great there. We don't know how that's going to play out.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Guest Speaker]

Speaking of waiting two, three years, Tony, it's so complex. It's. It's rich with complexity. And yes, I found Mel Kuipers. Mel was angry about it. He just thought it was. That there was like fraud involved.

[Michael Wilbon]

This.

[Guest Speaker]

Mel was belligerent about it and his anger. And I was like, wow. And I wasn't angry. I have a lot of thoughts and some of them aren't even like, you have to talk through them and you have to go through them and you have to talk and listen to really smart people, not just opinionated people. Because the place where Mel was right, to me, Mel said, this is not a football story. This is not about whether or not he can play football. We just watched him. We just watched him play much better than the people that were taken ahead of him.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yes.

[Guest Speaker]

By rounds.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yes.

[Guest Speaker]

So I don't want to hear that. And I just thought that Mel expressed. Everybody has. It is complex, you know, you know it. I always say, and I say on your show often, because we discuss things often that people are afraid to discuss, that everything's about race. It can be two, but it's about. It will be more about culture. And by the way, just because something may include something about race doesn't mean it's racism. It could be one of the dynamics, but then it has dynamics that aren't involving race, but it could be one of the dynamics that was at work here. One of them, maybe. And so culture is one of them. The NFL and its need to be authoritarian is one of them. And so there's so many things at play, man. I just, you know, Tony, I didn't even want to go There, I didn't even allow myself to indulge much of it. And I don't know how much we're going to get into it today on pti, but I guess you have to get a recap.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I guess you do. I mean, yes, I guess you probably do, because it was the biggest story in the draft. But, I mean, we all saw this kid. We saw him for two years at Colorado. He's a good player. He's a worthy quarterback. Come on, now. He's a worthy quarterback.

[Guest Speaker]

That's a great phrase.

[Tony Kornheiser]

He's a worthy quarterback. But he's. And I shouldn't say. But I'll say. And. And he's also got a dad that if you are a coach or a general manager, you may want to stay clear of. You may want to. Because if this kid fails and you're a sports writer in that city, you say, well, he was great for his dad. Why don't you bring his dad in?

[Guest Speaker]

You know. Yeah, it was only. It was. It was interesting trying to explain it to us, you know, a teenage boy. Boy who, you know, consumes his life in a different way than I did. And he knows that I know. And love Deion Sanders. He knows that.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Guest Speaker]

And so, like, every few pics, I was in Arizona and Matthew, I get a text or a call, dad, why is he being drafted yet? And so, you know, you're going through all of the things, just the litany of things that it probably touches on, but maybe not. It's just such a weird story.

[Tony Kornheiser]

It really is such a bizarre, weird. Yeah. And I find myself. I am going to root for him. I always liked him.

[Guest Speaker]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. You know, and. And, yeah, it's impossible. I'll just close by saying this. It's impossible to omit the Dion factor because.

[Guest Speaker]

No, no.

[Tony Kornheiser]

It's one of the second pick in the draft factor. Yeah, it may be it.

[Michael Wilbon]

Huge.

[Guest Speaker]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

The second pick in the draft is a Dion player, the second pick in the draft, but it's not his son. It's. If you. If you walk into this and say that has nothing to do with it, you're an idiot. You're an idiot. We don't know what it has to do with it, but we know it.

[Guest Speaker]

Has something that's each. Each team, in each case, each round, it was a different thing at play or different combinations then.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's right. That's right. You know, let me go to yesterday. Let me. Let me go to basketball for a second. Two games were decided by calls. Two games were decided by last Second calls, in essence, in one, the Knicks game, the kid got fouled. The kid got fouled. I thought the reason they didn't call it was because time had run out, but no, there was still a second on the clock. Later, the referees admit that the Detroit kid gets fouled. That's going to win the game for Detroit. They in the Lakers game, they go to review. What do you mean you're going to review? You're going to review LeBron in this one foul situation.

[Guest Speaker]

Instantly what they knew instantly they were going to review it. I didn't know that that could be reviewed.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I didn't even know that cost the Lakers.

[Guest Speaker]

I was watching. And you know what? It was interesting because one of those times, either yesterday or Saturday, Stan Van Gundy said that Stan goes, wait a minute, I'm not even sure you can review this. And I thought he was expressing. Here's a guy who's coached for 40 years, Sam bank knows everything. And he was. It was great for him to admit and say, hey, I didn't think you could do that because that's the way people at home are sitting thinking, and what do you do? You can't make Detroit whole. The series is 2:2. No, it's 2:2 if they get the call. If Tim Hardway Jr. Is making two out of three free throws, boys and girls, he is. I bet you career he's probably right around 80% foul shooter. So, wow, he's.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Detroit's going to win. And the Lakers are going to win. They're going to win.

[Guest Speaker]

The Lakers are going to win and be 22 in that series as opposed to down 3 1. But you know, I will say this, Tony, you have to say about the league that has more talk from its own fans and supporters and everybody about conspiracies, you have to say it worked. You can't say they favored the big market guy. Can't say they favored the star. You can't say, oh, LeBron gets everything his way, because he didn't. And they got the call. Right. Even though you and I probably like 90% of people in real life time said either to ourselves, whoever was at our home on a text group, what they're doing. What?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, I was. I was opposed to it. I was obviously, I was completely opposed to that was just me prior to that. The day before, Denver comes back to 2:2 on a fabulous, literal last second play. But they took the ball away from Denver earlier. They took the ball away from Jokic, saying he stepped on a line. He wasn't near the Line.

[Guest Speaker]

Yeah, yeah, it was, it's, it's. Listen, it's a. Now, the first weekend, the last weekend, the first weekend of the playoffs with the highest rating.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, they had good ratings five years. Not just.

[Guest Speaker]

No, no, no. Not good ratings. Ratings that are so good they don't make sense. Well, nothing is up from. Nothing is higher than 25 years ago. Nothing. It was. When I heard it, I thought, this is a mistake, it can't be. And then if it is true, it was. Why, what would make it up 25% again? A combination of things. And so I got to think when we find out later today that this weekend's gains are going to be up again.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I think so.

[Guest Speaker]

They don't. They can't be up that much again. But maybe I'm wrong. These gains have been great.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I think there's, there's other factors. I mean, like, what else?

[Guest Speaker]

What do you think?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay, so there's, there's no competition. There's this UFL that nobody watches.

[Guest Speaker]

That's every year.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Well, yeah, but nobody watches it.

[Guest Speaker]

Football every year.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay, but watches it. If you were head to head with the first night of the NFL draft, the ratings would be way down because the NFL draft is dominant. You are. You had a golf tournament that was not the Masters. You had a golf tour, a gimmicky golf tournament with partners that I didn't even watch. And then you had. You have attractive matchups. You have New York and you have Los Angeles. These are attractive matchups.

[Guest Speaker]

Well, but that's the whole. That doesn't explain the whole week. Last weekend again, the whole first round weekend. Some of those don't involve New York and the Lakers.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Well, I think over the, I think over the air TV helps. I think when it's on abc. I do think that helps.

[Guest Speaker]

Over the air, Always over there. No, it's, it's, it's so.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Used to be on espn, now it's on ESPN and abc.

[Guest Speaker]

Always on. It's always on abc. Tom.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Really?

[Guest Speaker]

Do the games on abc? Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay, well, then I can't explain it, but we'll see if it sustains.

[Guest Speaker]

It's always. Part of it is the same menu of partners televised the games every year. Turner, abc, espn, the same menu. And so it's like, okay, and not everybody's in New York and L. A. Memphis is on and Oklahoma City is on.

[Tony Kornheiser]

How are they. How would. I would bet you this is sight unseen? I would bet you that the Oklahoma City ratings weren't even close to the New York and the LA ratings.

[Guest Speaker]

Well, they're not. But if they're up 25 years worth.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Guest Speaker]

All that matters is why are people watching Oklahoma City more now than seven years ago?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Because. Oh, because they have Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook. Okay, okay. That's fair. What about Damian Lillard being injured? What does that do to Milwaukee? That kills them, right? They're done.

[Guest Speaker]

Yes. And they felt it yesterday. Yeah, they have blown out. They have. Yeah. Kills him. It's the third straight year since winning a championship. So, no, fourth straight year. 22, 23, 24 and now 25, that they have a Hall of Fame player. Usually it's Giannis. Giannis twice, and now Dame Lillard. They've been hurt every year since in the playoffs, suffered injuries during the playoffs that really don't allow for Middleton a starter. So this is the fourth year since winning a championship that there's somebody. Their second best, their best or second best player on that team went out. And so. Yeah, you're. You're right. They're done.

[Tony Kornheiser]

They're done.

[Guest Speaker]

Achilles at this age. Look, Tony, do you have a. Damon Lillard makes his last year. And if you're Milwaukee, how do you get out on out from under, paying a guy who is going to be 36, 37 years old in his last year, $60 million. How do you get out from under that?

[Tony Kornheiser]

I don't know.

[Guest Speaker]

You're missing a guy who, while not a championship player, in terms of. He does not wear a ring, but he's put hall of Famers multiple times out of the playoffs. This shooting put him out maybe the third best shooter of his generation after Stephen Clay. To me, he's going to be that high on this. And I, you know, I know him. I'm a Dame Lillard guy. I know him. I've socialized with him. I just really enjoy him. And to see that yesterday was just for me, was a downer.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. They're going to lose. They're going to lose. I will say that you were right about a guy. Totally right. Jalen Brunson is a beast. Jalen Brunson is a beast. And you know when you used to talk to me about Devin Booker and Jamal Murray and I was skeptical and then, because they're not this guy, he runs the game. He's great. He's great.

[Guest Speaker]

Devin Booker was on the best player on a team that was up 2 oh in the NBA Finals. So Devin Booker's had. Devin Booker's been further in this thing.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Than Jalen Brunson and probably Jalen Brunson's not going to get there this year either, but, you know, he'll get to the second round, but it's really good.

[Guest Speaker]

I know that you will. That you will. I want you to like this more. I want you to like this Knicks team more. I've been pushing you in this direction.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Guest Speaker]

I think you may kind of sorta in a series against the Celtics. Didn't you hate the Celtics growing up?

[Tony Kornheiser]

I did, but I, I had. I just admire the way they play. I think they.

[Guest Speaker]

We all did. We all did.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I think they play well. I just think the Celtics are classy and, you know.

[Guest Speaker]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So don't.

[Guest Speaker]

But the Celtics and the Knicks, if the Knicks could. Now they have this advantage. They should be two. Two. They should be.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's right.

[Guest Speaker]

Doing a scuffle.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's right. That's right.

[Guest Speaker]

And, you know, you know, it's. It's weird. So I root. I want that series. I want to go to games in that series. I understand.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Boston, New York. Yeah, no, I get it.

[Guest Speaker]

So much time and, you know, I can talk trash about i95 all I want. If you say to me, you can be at any series that's not LeBron. Steph coming up right now, early on, what do you want to be at? Watch. Watch and see how fast I get to the Two Gardens, New York and Boston.

[Tony Kornheiser]

No, I understand that. I understand that. And I don't think LeBron and Steph's taking place. I think the Lakers are done.

[Guest Speaker]

You don't think. I know you said, I think they're done. I think they can come back. You. You said this before yesterday's game was over. You didn't think they could come back.

[Tony Kornheiser]

No, I don't. I don't. I mean, it's too bad because I, I want that to work. I want that to work, but it's. I'm not sure it is. All right. All right. I will not talk to you later, but I'll talk to you tomorrow.

[Guest Speaker]

Tony, enjoy your Monday. It's gonna be a great day for you and Michael. Enjoy it.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Have a great day. Good, good, good. All right. Thank you. Michael Wilbon, boys and girls. We'll take a break. Mark Feinsand will join us. I'm Tony Kornheiser.

[Commercial Voiceover]

There are people out there all across the country pushing boundaries to grow the game of golf. Like champion speed golfer Lauren Kupp, who plays faster than anyone else. And Will Lowry, whose work in the golf community inspires more kids to get into the game as a champion partner of the Masters bank of America supports everyone. Determined to find out what's possible in golf and in life. What would you like the power to do? Bank of America. Bank of America. NA member FDIC. Copyright 2025 bank of America Corporation. All rights reserved.

[Tony Kornheiser]

24 chefs, 24 culinary showdowns for 24 hours straight. Which chef will out cook, outpace, outlast the competition?

[Michael Wilbon]

No chef escapes the clock.

[Tony Kornheiser]

All new 24 and 24 last chef standing. Sunday night at eight. See it first on Food Network stream. Next day on Max.

[Commercial Voiceover]

This is the Tony Kornheiser show.

[Dan Byrne]

I really had a wonderful life. A job, good friends, children and a wife. Then suddenly the dog started to bark. I looked at the ball game it all went dark they put in pooch Pooch to the mound Here comes Pooch that dreaded sound Drown your sorrows Open up that hooch all was well till they put in pooch Everything was going amazingly. The gnats were ahead seven to three People were smiling Burgers on the grill Sisyphus made it up that hill but they couldn't Pooch that dreaded sound Here comes Pooch Pooch to the mound Drown your sorrows Open up that hooch all was well till they put in Pooch all was well till they put in.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Pooch the brilliant Dan Byrne writing about and singing about my not favorite reliever at the moment, Pooch. But they won two amazing games. Amazing games. Mark Feinstein joins us. Those are amazing games, the ones they won, right? The two.

[Michael Wilbon]

I don't know how, I don't know how you crush the Nationals and Pooch when they have this huge comeback win and he had a scoreless inning in that game. I mean, they were down 71 of the time. But without that, without that scoreless inning, 8, 7, might not happen. So, you know, I think, I think you're vastly underrating Pooch.

[Tony Kornheiser]

He's terrible. Jose Ferrer is terrible. They're all terrible. Finnegan comes in and can never get the first out in an inning. He just cannot get the first out. Something always happens. Their bullpen is the worst in all of baseball statistically. But the Mets bullpen was terrible. Yeah.

[Michael Wilbon]

And that's one of those things, and we've talked about this before, that, you know, bullpens are so fluid, just who's in them, how they're performing. And that's why come July, when we're going to be talking about the trade deadline as we do every year, every team is going to. Every contender is going to try to get a relief pitcher or 2 or 3 or 4. No matter how good or not good your bullpen's been because you need relief pitching, and the teams that. That are out of it and are going to be selling will have some to sell, because as bad as any bullpen is, there's one or two guys in that bullpen, even the Nationals bullpen, that can help another team. So, you know, right now, there are a lot of teams that would say, Kyle Finnegan, I could use him in my bullpen. And so come July, somebody will come calling and make them an offer and. And maybe that'll happen.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Let me ask the larger question here. There are so many people in the major leagues now that can throw the ball 100 miles an hour. Why are relieving. Why is relieving in this state that it's in where it's not nearly as good relative to its position as other players are relative to theirs?

[Michael Wilbon]

Well, I think every hitter in the major leagues can also probably hit 100 miles an hour. So you not only need to be able to throw it hard, you need to be throwing it accurately. And I think, as we've seen from too many relievers over the years, what's the biggest sin a reliever can commit? It's the first batter. Walk, walk. And so, you know, you can throw it as hard as you want. I mean, I covered Kyle Farnsworth when he was with the Yankees. That guy threw the ball harder than almost everybody at the time that he was pitching. There weren't, you know, teams didn't have five or six guys in their bullpen who threw 100. You know, he threw 98, 99, almost every pitch. The problem was he never had any idea where it was going. And so, you know, you look at it and say, that arm is tantalizing. And it really. Every GM thinks, oh, I. You know, every pitching coach thinks I can, you know, I can use that guy, and I can make him a consistent reliever. But the problem is, if you can't throw strikes consistently, I don't care. You could throw 110, it's not going to matter. So I really think that's. That's the biggest reason most relievers are relievers, because they couldn't cut it as a starter. And a lot of times, command is the reason for that.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, Wilbourne hated Farnsworth when he was with the Cubs. God, he hated Farnsworth. All right, let me. Let me ask you some of the questions we had. We had Tim on the other day, and I asked him what was the most surprising team so far, and Tim said it was The Mets. He said the Mets are really good. I'm not saying the Mets aren't really good, but losing two out of three so far sets him back a little bit. Do you agree with Kirkjin that they are the most surprising team in baseball, in your mind?

[Michael Wilbon]

No, I didn't pick them to make the playoffs, but I thought they were going to be really good. I just thought the National League east was going to be really good on being the Braves. The Braves are surprising to me on the reverse side, although they've been a.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Little bit better later lately.

[Michael Wilbon]

Yeah. And they're going to get Acuna back, and that'll help. I think the most surprising team to me is probably the Giants. You know, they're leading the NL west and, you know, they made some moves this offseason, but I. I didn't have them in the same class as the Dodgers, the Diamondbacks or the Padres. And the Giants have been really good. And when you look at it, it's, you know, I don't know. I don't want to say it's smoke and mirrors, but, you know, Wilmer Flores leads the league with 28 RBIs, and, you know, Jung Huli, who was a rookie last year, got hurt. You know, he's at a.930 OPS. Are these things going to be able to carry on? I don't know. The one thing I do know, Logan Webb is really, really good. And I don't think people appreciate sort of how good this guy is. You know, he's. He's got an era, too. He makes every start, he pitches deep into games. The Giants are going to go as far as their pitching can take them. You know, Justin Verlander has made all six starts. He's been okay, hasn't won a game. He's got a five era. But he's probably helping some of these younger guys. And the fact that they've used the same five starting pitchers all year is really important because you look at that team that's chasing them right now, and the Dodgers, they've used nine starting pitchers already, and they may have lost another one in Tyler Glass. Now.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, Kirkjun did say that he. If he named a Manager of the year already, it would be Melvin. I'm sure you would concur with that because you're saying how good the Giants are. Yeah. So what about the most disappointing team so far?

[Michael Wilbon]

Well, it's got to be the one that I pick to be in the World series. It's 10 and 17 at the moment, which is the Baltimore Orioles Yeah, I don't, you know, look, we knew their pitching wasn't going to be great. They let Corbin Burns go. They didn't replace him with an arm of a similar caliber. I love Charlie Morton. He's one of my favorite guys in the league to watch. But he's 06 with a 10 ERA. Not exactly doing a great Corbin Burns impression. But I think the bigger thing is that the offense has just been bad, and that's where I really thought they were going to be able to make up for their lack of top starting pitching. And it just hasn't. It just hasn't been there. So, you know, I think there's still a lot of time left. The team you're very familiar with, the 2019 Nationals, are the one that I always point to and say I do not over a month or even two, because they were 19 and 31 and they won the World Series. So. But right now, through, you know, through one month, I would say the Orioles are probably the most surprisingly disappointing team for me.

[Tony Kornheiser]

You mentioned that Acuna would be back with the Braves. It is clear from Acuna's actions the other day when Snitker did not punish somebody for not running out a ball and he had punished Acuna for it six years before. Mark, it seems clear to me Acuna holds a grudge and he doesn't like Snitker. What's going to happen there?

[Michael Wilbon]

Well, ultimately, if there is a decision to be made, I like Acuna's chances to still be on the Braves longer than Snicker. You know, Snickers is, I believe he's won the Manager of the Year award twice. He's considered, you know, a very player friendly manager, but it's not really good when your best player is not friendly. And I, you know, the fact that the Braves are off to a bad start, I don't think that he's in danger of getting fired right now. But, you know, he's also 69 years old and at some point you probably look to start thinking about retirement and, you know, maybe there's a, you know, maybe he decides it's going to be his last year or, you know, I don't know. But it was, it was very surprising, the play you were referring to. Jared Kelnick hit a ball that he thought was out, kind of loafed and sort of, you know, didn't, didn't run hard on it.

[Guest Speaker]

And it cost, cost the team some.

[Michael Wilbon]

Bases there when it didn't go out. And somebody asked Snicker, did you say anything to Kelnick about that. And he said, was I supposed to. And Acuna responded to the tweet laying that and said, you know, I would have been bench or I was benched or whatever. It was the exact wording. But it was very clear he was.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Not pleased with six years ago.

[Michael Wilbon]

Yeah. This is not last week. This is something. I wonder how much of it is. You know, Acuna signed that long term deal with Atlanta that was the most player friendly deal in the history of baseball. I wonder if there's any regrets there from him on, on signing that deal. He's cost himself at least $100 million based on the career that he's had, even with two ACL injuries. You know, he's. I don't know. It's interesting, it's interesting that a guy who's still not even playing yet, who is their best, unquestionably their best player.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yes.

[Michael Wilbon]

Would, would have that kind of reaction six years later.

[Tony Kornheiser]

It's, it is just a direct punch in the face of Brian Snicker. There's no other way to read that. Your defense of Randy Johnson. Well noted. You liked Randy Johnson. You're the one. Right.

[Michael Wilbon]

I didn't, I didn't love covering him because he was grumpy when he pitched and if he pitched poorly, those post game interviews were not enjoyable. But I think I try to separate the post game competitor personality from a person's overall personality. And Randy was a lovely man to talk to when you weren't talking to him about the home run he had just given up to David Ortiz. Yeah. And you know, certainly having seen him a couple times in his post playing career. Yeah. I just, you know, it just sort of struck me the wrong way when you say he's a terrible person. And I decided, you know what? Randy's, Randy's a nice guy and I, and I decided to come to his defense there.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Well noted. You're probably far more right than I am because you've been around him far more than I have. This is nice to talk about baseball. Let's talk about Augusta. You went to Augusta. What was it like? Describe it. What, what happened? How much, how much fun was it?

[Michael Wilbon]

I can't talk about Augusta enough. My wife is ready to make me move to Augusta because she doesn't want to hear about it anymore. It was three of the great days of my life, my friend. And I walked in and anybody who's ever been there will understand what I'm talking about. The front gate, when you're just walking in has that same vibe as the front gate of Disney World. And as we walked towards it, my friend looked at me, he said, I have chills right now. And I looked at him, I said, I feel like a five year old walking into Disney World for the first time. And you do. You just walk in and all of a sudden you're seeing these things that you've watched on TV all these years, but it's so much more beautiful than you ever could have imagined. And it's also the single most civilized place on earth where everybody's nice and happy and friendly and you can leave your chair somewhere and nobody touches it. And you come back three hours later and it's still sitting in the same spot on the 12th green, which is a pretty in demand spot. But if you got there first, hey, that's your seat for the day, whether you're sitting there or not. Just being able to go there. The hills were. I knew it was a hilly course. My legs killed at the end of every day because we walked probably 10 miles a day, but I was floating. It was just. It was just the most enjoyable experience I've ever had, watching any sporting event or really going to anything, you know, like that.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Were you able to connect with Jolene? Did you. Did you find Jolene?

[Michael Wilbon]

I did not find Jolene, but I did find Sansi, which I was very happy about. You know, trying to connect with somebody there without cell phones is really difficult. Though I will say, three days of not having your cell phone only added to the experience. Yeah, it was. It was wonderful, everybody. It's the one thing you notice when you watch, you know, I watch not as much golf as you on tv a lot. The one thing you notice when you watch on TV at any other tournament is that when a guy's lining up a big putt, when a guy's teeing off, every spectator in the crowd is just holding up their phones to take a picture or a video or nobody's actually watching at the Masters. Everybody is locked in to everything that's going on because there's no device in their hand to keep their attention elsewhere. So it was great. We set up on Amen Corner on Thursday. We set up by the seventh green on Wednesday. On a Friday, rather, where you can see the guys teeing off on three and you can watch the seventh green, the approaches and the putts. We saw a couple eagle putts. We saw. We saw Matt Fitzpatrick birdie out of the sand. I saw the last hole I watched in. The whole tournament was on. We were on 14 on Friday. And we watched Scheffler and JT both birdie. We decided that was probably a good finale. And it was just. It was wonderful. The only regret I have is I didn't get there early enough any day to get a gnome. But that's. That's about the only regret. And honestly, I don't even have a real garden, so I'm fine with that.

[Tony Kornheiser]

We have a gnome for you. We will send you a gnome. Jolene has sent us gnomes. We will send you a gnome. Was there any particular food purchase that you made where you said this was fabulous?

[Michael Wilbon]

The peach ice cream sandwich was probably one of the great things I've ever tasted in my life. I enjoyed the chicken salad sandwich and the barbecue sandwich. I learned that I'm not a pimento cheese guy, but we bought one. But just, you know, you can't go to the masters and not say you tried the pimento cheese sandwich. And, you know, the great thing is every time that we went into the concession stand, you know, we'd get food item and a beer or drink or whatever it was, and it cost less than $20 because they make so much money in the merch shop that they can give you the food for almost free. So it was great. Yeah, I enjoyed. The ice cream sandwich was definitely like the late afternoon highlight of each day in terms of the food.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Wonderful, wonderful. Glad you could share that with all of us. Thank you. We'll talk soon. Thank you, Mark. Mark Feinstein, boys and girls. Wonderful. Just wonderful. We'll come back with email and jingle. I'm Tony Kornheiser.

[Commercial Voiceover]

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[Tony Kornheiser]

You'Re listening to the Tony Cornheiser show. And that would be enough if he was a musician. Ian Warrington, he's also an emergency room doctor. He's a medical degree. He's a doctor. You want to do the Bethesda bagel ad for us, please? Yes.

[Listener/Caller]

Got the bagel sandwiches today. Very excited about that. Bethesda Bagels, we love them. You'll as well just go to Bethesda Bagels.com for. For the location in the DC area nearest you. Then pop on in and you'll be thrilled.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's gonna do it for us today. Before we get to the mailbag, let me just say, put the coffee down. Coffee is for closers only. I'm here from downtown, I'm here from Mitch and Murray, and I'm here on a mission of mercy. Is this Mamet? Yes. This is Gary Glen Ross. Right? This is Mamet. That's Alec Baldwin.

[Listener/Caller]

That's Alec Baldwin. Yes. And there's a lot of rapper bombs. Yeah, Gene. Whatever. Gene the Machine. Jack Lemmon's character gets yelled at. Everyone getting yelled at.

[Michael Wilbon]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. But yeah. Thanks to our guests today, Michael Wilbon and Mark Feinsand. Thanks as well to the sponsors. If you can, you can listen to us on Apple podcasts Spotify and Odyssey. If you get the show through Apple, please leave us a review. So from Tim. Tim Collins in Overland Park, Kansas, says. Dear Dr. TK, really? This is for Michael. Glad to hear of your interest in adding some native plants to your yard. To help you out, here's a link to a couple of local native plant groups who can put a design together at minimal cost. Not quite a free wall mural, but I think you learned your lesson there. Remote Design services. These are D.C. organizations that will help me plant flowers that will attract pollinating bees. This is something we all should do. This is not hard to do.

[Mark Feinsand]

And it's good because they'll know the native ones versus the invasive ones.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. And then you want to. When you have a service come in, you want to make sure that. That they don't use things that kill bees. Yeah. Like mine, obviously do. So we're not going to have that anymore. No.

[Listener/Caller]

Save the bees.

[Tony Kornheiser]

This is not costly, and this is something you can do, you know, to improve your environment. You're not standing up on a wall holding up a sign, don't drill oil. We're not doing that. This is not political. We're not doing that. We're just planting flowers. That's all. That's all from Neil Ayrves. The discussion and promotion of the importance of bees by you and the Littles reminded me of a time when we became accidental beekeepers and produced the most expensive free honey in history. A few years ago, I noticed bees swarming under the eaves in the front of our house. A closer look discovered a hole that the bees were entering and exiting. We consulted a local apiarist. Apiarist. Apias.

[Listener/Caller]

Apiist, I think, really.

[Tony Kornheiser]

And asked if we could just spray insecticide into the hole. He educated us about the importance of preserving bees and informed us that a bee exposed to insecticide could travel to another colony and cause cause damage there. At that point we hired a contractor who cut a 25 square foot section out of the roof for the beekeeper to have access. He reported that the beehive under the roof filled the entire space and was probably four or five years in the making. He preserved all of the active honeycomb for us and when the bees exited the roof to a nearby bush, they formed a swarm the size of a large medicine ball around the queen that could actually be approached within a foot before the beekeeper simply cut off the branch with the swarm and took it to his beehives. After paying $1,200 to the beekeeper and the contractor, the woman told I'm related by marriage rendered the honeycomb into around 20 small jars of honey that we distributed at Christmas. We labeled the honey at which point which cost $60 a jar to produce Littleton's most expensive free honey. I'm sure you would have enjoyed a box of that. I would have. That's very nice and you did the right thing. Robert Bean Transplant from way upstate New York Happy Friday, loyal listener here. Thank you for keeping my earbuds well fed. Your show is a perfect blend of brainy and banter. I'm a self proclaimed master gardener living in Martin's Editions. I know where that is where I've been hosting a bee buffet for about 15 years now. I have an excess of native pollinators. I can spare a few clumps of aster, a smidge of bee balm B A L M and we can sprinkle in some Mini Joy Joe Pye Weed. Transplanting season will be over in a few weeks so we need to move on this. If you're interested, hit me up. We can talk about logistics. My garden and I are driving iron away from Brookville Pharmacy though for you, a forgiving seven wood and a confident wedge will get you there. Nothing would make me happier than to share my pollinators with you. Swing by after round at Columbia, you know. So I'm going to hold. Let's hold on to that.

[Mark Feinsand]

That's getting sent to me.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yes. Nathan Ackerhelm Charlotte, North Carolina I was driving while listening to Thursday's POD when I suddenly exclaimed, are you kidding me? Evelyn from CVS has the same birthday as Liz. The woman in the Lexus next to me at the stop looked at me with grave concern. Andrew Stoler Appropriate response. Steamboat Springs, Colorado I also celebrated my birthday, April 23rd. I used to think it was cool that I shared that with Shakespeare, but now that I know I share it with both Liz and Evelyn, I am truly over the moon. Brent Norton is a long one. Brett Norton, well, I don't it doesn't say where he's from. I had a David Aldrich moment like I do every morning because. Because I hate sleep and enjoy suffering. I was at my 5:30am spin class. Now, this isn't your average put on some Lululemon and Coast kind of class. It's packed with triathletes. These people train daily. It's intense. The room smells like sweat and ambition. One day the instructor says, let's all welcome a new athlete to the class. Brooke 40.

[Listener/Caller]

Hello.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Wait a second. That Brooke 40? I know that name. Olympic swimmer. NCAA champ. Stanford. I'm pretty sure she was born in a pool and just recently adapted to land life. Anyway, it took her exactly one class to start obliterating everyone on the leaderboard. We're all gasping for air, praying for mercy, and she's just gliding through cool as a cucumber. The metrics don't lie. Brooke was blowing us away like it was our warm up, and she could not be nicer about it. She kept coming back week after week, still crushing. Even Mrs. 40 joined us for a class. Sadly, Mr. 40 never made an appearance, though I like to believe he was quietly supporting, perhaps from a nearby bakery. Fast forward to yesterday, the instructor said. Today's Brooks last class. She's moving to Boston for work in the research department at Harvard. Of course she is. That's right. Did you tell Pat?

[Listener/Caller]

I will pass that along to Pat. Yes.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's great.

[Listener/Caller]

Yeah, very happy to do that.

[Tony Kornheiser]

David Bradley Sterling, Virginia Sunday afternoon I sit down and watch the Nats game on Mass, and I note that Monumental Sports Network is showing Wizards Classics. Your guess is as good as mine. Classics Game 6 Art Irving Urbana, MD thank you for introducing us to Maury Povich's new podcast On Par With Par With Maury Povich, now part of my podcast, Power Rotation. You and Wilbaum were great. I imagine being guests on other people's podcasts would further cut into your nap time. But come on, man, suck it up and be a guest. And I don't want to. Your stories are great. You carried Red Smith and Shirley Povich's typewriters. That's a great story. Information for life. After a career spent covering sports for the Post, the Times, and Newsday, you could be a guest on a different podcast every day and still probably just scratch the surface of great stories you could tell. I don't have great stories. I'm unburdened by memory. I thought you people knew that sports and newspaper industry alone could keep you telling interesting stories for quite a while. Be a guest. You'd be good. Thanks. No, thank you again for introducing us to On Par and for the laughs and stories you bring us on your own show. Which if truth be told, doesn't actually stink. Steve Tabor Excuse me Fort Smith, Arkansas the most eerie thing that's ever happened to me occurred the other day. I was talking to a friend and fellow little about the show and I told him I could die a happy man if you did a show with Tim Kirchen and Greg Garcia as the guest with playing music from Dan Byrne with God as my witness, I swear the next day that was exactly the show. Since I assume I will be dead when you read this, I wanted to say thanks for all the laughs and as it turns out, I'm not all that happy about dying after all. Brian in D.C. are we still doing embarrassing tee shots? I think I have one. About 20 years ago I was in my 30s, not yet a man, and had only been playing golf for a few years. Took a trip to San Diego with a woman to whom I'm related by marriage, our two very young masculine children, and my parents, both of whom were and are avid golfers. As a gift, my folks, my wife brought my folks and me around La Costa and of course I had no business being being on with my skills or lack thereof. When we arrived, it was a gorgeous day, but the course was undergoing maintenance. At the first tee my parents both hit playable shots. When it was my turn, I approached tee, settled in, started my backswing, connected with the ball, followed through and watched it blast through the windshield of a construction truck parked nearby. Didn't shatter the windshield, it left a perfectly round golf ball sized hole. I felt bad, immediately found the pro. His response? He shouldn't have parked there. We proceeded. Lovely day though I still felt bad and probably played worse. Fast forward to 2025. My wife and I, our third and final masculine child, now 13, and I were staying at the Odessaga in Cooperstown. The boy and I played leather stocking one day and what did I see? Course Maintenance Vehicles I'm happy to report this time no trucks were damaged. We had a fun day on the course. Also happy to report the the ODA saga was wonderful and going to the hall of Fame on Jackie Robinson Day was a special experience.

[Listener/Caller]

Oh that's great.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Played that course a thousand times. So happy you played it from Josh Bartlett in Fulton, New York. I can see Tony's obituary now. Tony was predeceased by three beautiful green patio cushions. Yes. I wish I had them from Bill Stiffington. They were past the cushions in La Paz in Bolivia, La Paz means the peace or means the pause.

[Listener/Caller]

And means the pause, I believe. Yes.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I cannot sing. I cannot play instruments. I've never been particularly good at sports. I'm socially awkward. But my name is Biff. I guess I got that going for me. Yes.

[Listener/Caller]

Yes, you do.

[Tony Kornheiser]

And one more from Glenn and Allen. Norwegian soft kitten for a guitarist. Glenn. His last name, Bergoets means ghost of the mountain in German. When it comes to our drummer, Alan, his last name of green means green in Irish vernacular. You're out on your fight tonight. Everyone is always do wear white. They all get involved and they all.

[Michael Wilbon]

Got their gear already.

[Tony Kornheiser]

And so they're going to be all colored up in. In the maroon and black.

[Guest Speaker]

You know, you always say you don't.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Got to do this. You know, like, you know, I just.

[I]

Find it funny how o let me get this off my chest. We always do this. Let's not do the rest. Sty this back and forth mess this stuff we don't mean we're about to confess we don't need this maybe there's another time maybe I should listen to my own advice. I know we got issues that was more than tonight More than just tonight so I don't want to fight right now we don't got to do it if you walk right now I'll do it if you down for a pur baby love me, love me and if you try to get me down I don't want to do it if you like that now if we fight it best be something that'll turn it around It'd be lovely if we cry for a minute now oh, we need to take our space oh, we got a lie for a minute it be lovely if we just cry for a minute now oh, we need to fight for a minute away I don't want to fight right now we don't got to do it if you walk right now I'll do it if you're down for imperfect baby love me, love me and if you're trying to get me down I don't want to do it if you like that now if we fight it best be something that'll turn it around Baby so.

[Guest Speaker]

Sa.

[Dan Byrne]

I really had a wonderful life. A job, good friends, children and a wife. Then suddenly the dog started to bark. I looked at the ball game it all went dark they put in pooch, pooch to the mound Here comes pooch that dreaded sound Drown your sorrows, open up that hooch. All was well til they pull put in pooch. Everything was going amazingly the gnats were ahead seven to three People were smiling Burgers on the grill Sisyphus made it up that hill but they put in pooch that dreaded sound Here comes pooch, Pooch to the mound, Drown your sorrows, open up that hooch. All was well till they put in pooch all was well till they put in pooch.