“Wilbon’s clean car”

Summary

The Tony Kornheiser Show – “Wilbon’s Clean Car”

Episode Date: February 9, 2026
Host: Tony Kornheiser
Guests and Regulars: Michael Wilbon, Jason La Canfora (aka Jason Lock), and "Fora"
Show Theme: A mix of sports (heavily Super Bowl analysis), cultural commentary, and reflections on sports media and notable sports figures.

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Episode Overview

This episode of “The Tony Kornheiser Show” is anchored by reaction to the Seahawks’ dominant Super Bowl win over the New England Patriots. Tony and guests Michael Wilbon and Jason La Canfora dissect the game from all angles—the on-field action, coaching strategy, the state of the NFL, and even the cultural resonance of Super Bowl commercials. There are poignant tributes to the late Sonny Jurgensen, discussions about the decline of traditional sports media, and plenty of the show’s trademark razor-sharp banter.

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Key Segments & Discussion Points

1. Super Bowl Recap and Analysis

[07:03]–[15:41], [16:25]–[32:17], [32:57]–[44:55]

Main Points:

• “Not Much of a Game” – The Seahawks' stifling defense rendered the Super Bowl one-sided, smothering the Patriots and making rookie QB Drake May look inexperienced.

  • Tony: “The Seattle defense was throttling New England. Drake May looked out of his league.” [07:03]
  • Wilbon: “Seattle just putting the beat down on the New England Patriots. A smackdown. They’re just a better team.” [17:06]

• Sam Darnold’s Performance – The panel agreed Darnold was unspectacular but sufficient.

  • Tony: “Sam Darnold was okay, wasn’t very good. He was okay. Didn’t lose the game, didn’t win the game.” [17:57]

• Drake May Shut Down – Credit given to Seattle for overwhelming the rookie QB.

  • Wilbon: “Drake May was no good because he had a defense kicking his ass.” [18:08]
  • Jason: “This was men vs boys…he looks like a 22-year-old who’s over his skis and hasn’t faced anybody.” [33:25]

• Coaching and Defensive Brilliance – Praise for Seattle’s coach Mike Macdonald, who previously elevated the Ravens' defense.

  • Jason: “He is most certainly in Baltimore right now the one that got away…McDonald’s got a lot of unicorn in him.” [35:33]

• Why Seattle Was Favored – Stronger schedule, harder conference, stiffer in-conference rivals.

  • Tony: “They went through the tougher conference…beat San Francisco and the Rams twice…these were the better teams.” [08:10]

• Patriots’ Overachievement – Recognition that New England’s run was impressive given recent losing seasons.

  • Tony: “I’m not taking anything away from New England. New England was 4 and 13 last year…They bring in this guy…he changes everything.” [09:48]

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2. Super Bowl Commercials Breakdown

[10:50]–[15:41], [20:22]–[21:32]

Highlights:

• Generational Divide Over Commercials:

  • Tony delights in several, Wilbon is famously dismissive.
  • Wilbon: “Commercials are just overstated, overrated. They all try five times to be cute. No.” [20:35]
  • Tony: “Hates all the commercials. Hates them all…unless there’s a famous basketball player in them.” [10:57]

• Notable Favorites:

  • Tony: “The Budweiser ad with the pony and the bird that turned into a Clydesdale and an eagle was tremendous. It was just beautiful.” [12:17][20:56]
  • Tony: “The T Mobile ad with the boy band. That was tremendous. Tell me why that was really good.” [12:47]
  • Lays’ farmer ad, Mike Tyson’s food ad, and the nostalgia-driven Backstreet Boys spot all mentioned as standouts.

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3. Olympics, Golf, and Non-Football Sports

[04:25]–[05:49], [26:18]–[28:14]

• Olympics: Lindsey Vonn’s crash dominated headlines even though American Breezy Johnson took gold.
  • Tony: “The headline is, Vonn crashes. Breezy Johnson wins gold. Vonn is the headline, and Breezy Johnson is the second line.” [04:52], [28:14]
• Golf: Dissection of Hideki Matsuyama’s struggles on 18 and praise for the dramatic finish.
  • Michael Wilbon: “It just shows you that the great players can have moments that aren’t so great.” [26:18]
• Figure Skating: “Quad God” Ilia Malinin was referenced as a must-watch for his athletic feats.
  • Tony: “You love Usain Bolt. This is Usain Bolt [of skating].” [30:19]
  • Wilbon’s reply: “Skating...is a spectacle like few other things. But is it a sport?” [30:58]–[31:17]

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4. Remembering Sonny Jurgensen

[21:32]–[25:54]

• Wilbon’s Tribute: Warm stories about working with Sonny on Washington media shows, Sonny’s love of basketball, and unique perspective.
  • Wilbon: “Sonny Jurgensen lived 91 years, and he spent a chunk of that, like 15, getting smashed around by people like Deacon Jones.” [24:35]
• Legacy: Emphasis placed on Jurgensen’s storytelling, generosity with younger journalists, and ability to avoid CTE despite a long NFL career.
  • Tony: “He was friendly and open and very nice. Did you watch the golf?” [25:54]

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5. The Decline of Sports Coverage

[02:45], [45:00]–[47:35]

• Washington Post Sports Section: The hosts mourn the gutting of a beloved institution.
  • Tony (reading listener note): “Thank you to Jeannie for her role in both [the Post and the podcast], and to you all for continuing to put a thoughtful, entertaining, and comforting product that I can count on in a world that seems hellbent on stripping away valuable institutions I’ve taken for granted.” [03:44]
• Media Industry Shift: Loss of coverage for teams like Maryland and Georgetown; coverage is now ‘AP-style’ bare-bones.
  • Jason: “There’s nobody traveling with the Maryland basketball [team]…there is no professional media organization that is staffing University of Maryland basketball games on the road.” [45:15]
  • Tony: “Sports coverage as you and I grew up knowing, it is done. It’s done.” [46:44]

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Super Bowl’s Boring Nature:
  Tony: “We get to the Super Bowl now…because it wasn’t much of a game. I mean, the Seattle defense was throttling New England.” [07:03]

• On Commercials Generational Divide:
  Jason: “They are now preying on nostalgia for me. I’m now that old.” [10:52]

• On Sonny Jurgensen:
  Wilbon: “He was just…a great storyteller. And to sit around with him and John Riggins…I am grateful I got to do it.” [23:03]

• On Judged Sports:
  Wilbon: “It’s a spectacle like few other things. But is it a sport?” [30:58]

• On Coaches and Diversity in Hiring (re: McDonald):
  Jason: “I think McDonald is brilliant…he might be—the McVay of defense…the guy who sprouts the family tree…on the defensive side.” [38:21] Jason: “If Brian Flores was white, Brian Flores probably had three jobs by now.” [38:21]

• On the Demise of Print Sports Journalism: Tony: “Sports coverage as you and I grew up knowing, it is done. It’s done.” [46:44]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Time | Segment/Topic | |-----------|-------------------------------------------------| | 00:34–07:03 | Earlier Episode Recap, Sports Betting Wrap-up | | 07:03–15:41 | Super Bowl Game Analysis, Commercials | | 16:25–32:17 | Wilbon’s Clean Car, Football Analysis, Sonny Jurgensen Tribute | | 32:57–44:55 | Jason La Canfora: Deeper Super Bowl and Coaching Analysis | | 45:00–47:35 | Washington Post/Maryland Sports Media Discussion | | 47:41–49:27 | Jason’s “Want to Bet” Segment | | 21:32–25:54 | Sonny Jurgensen: Personal Recollections | | 27:20–32:17 | Golf, Olympics, Figure Skating Debate |

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Tone & Style

The show retains Tony’s signature blend of playful curmudgeonliness, nostalgia, skepticism about the direction of media and sports, and warm, often self-deprecating camaraderie with his longtime friends. The banter ranges from sharp critiques (“He was no good. He was no good yesterday. Right.” – Tony on Drake May, [17:57]) to elegiac (“Sports coverage as you and I grew up knowing, it is done. It's done.” [46:44]) to the irreverently comedic (“Skating…is a spectacle like few other things. But is it a sport?” [30:58]).

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Episode Highlights

• The Seahawks defense was universally praised as the story of the Super Bowl.
• Tony and Michael provided layered insight on how conference strength and schedule shaped the NFL season.
• There’s a recurring theme of nostalgia—for football, for media institutions, for bygone sports coverage, and for the era of Sonny Jurgensen.
• The show strikes a balance between moment-to-moment analysis and reflection on larger issues facing sports and media in 2026.

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For listeners who missed the episode, this recap covers all the pressing football talk, the generational debate over commercials, the state of the media, and a heartfelt segment on Sonny Jurgensen—always filtered through Tony’s unique, engaging perspective.

Transcript

[Tony Kornheiser]

Hey, it's Tony. On today's show, we'll talk about the Seahawks dominant win over New England in the super bowl. First with Michael Wilbon, then with Jason Lock and Fora. But first, Commerce.

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[Tony Kornheiser]

Previously on the Tony Kornheiser Show. The only way Jeff can screw this up is to do 23 prop bets and lose them all. He's too smart to do that. He went to MIT before we get to the game, the waste management happens this week. You were out there? Yes.

[Michael Wilbon]

Yeah, I was just out there. I just walked around. Yeah, I was at 16.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Michael Wilbon]

For some hospitality there and some, you know.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Did you throw any beer at anybody?

[Jason Lock]

Did you take off your shirt?

[Tony Kornheiser]

The Tony Korneiser show is on. Now, obviously we're gonna talk about the super bowl on all levels with Michael Wilbon and Jason Lock and Fora. We're gonna skip a lot of stuff, but we'll do a little bit of Olympics too. I just want to get the bets right for everybody. Chuck Todd was 2 0. He had Seattle minus 4 and a half and he had the under. So he is now 75 and 72 on the season. That is plus three. The monkey had another bad day. The monkey was one and two. The monkey had red Gatorade. It was the orange Gatorade. So the monkey finishes.

[Fora]

What was there a shot of Pope Leo in the crowd?

[Tony Kornheiser]

I didn't.

[Fora]

I didn't see. Maybe in the fourth quarter that you and I didn't see.

[Tony Kornheiser]

No. Okay, so he showed it. The monkey finishes 28 and 40, which is not bad for a monkey. But not competitive with the humans.

[Fora]

No, no.

[Tony Kornheiser]

James Carville with a series of double plays and single plays, finishes five and three. He had the Seahawks. He had the under and missed almost everything else except Drake. May will throw an interception. He had that. Yes. So he finishes 5 and 3, 62, 58 and 2. That's plus 4. Jeff Ma 1 and 2. He had new England. He had Kenneth Walker as the James on the under on 73 and a half, which you thought was a good bet, except he got about 125 right and how many players will attempt to pass is the only thing Jeff Ma got right. There were no trick plays.

[Fora]

Less than two and a half.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Less than two and a half dot. So he's one and two. He finishes 55, 47 and one. So he's plus eight. He wins. He's plus eight. Carville is plus four. Chuck Todd is plus four as well.

[Jason Lock]

Back to the Gatorade. Are you colorblind? What color did you see?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Orange. Orange, yellow, lemon, lime, whatever it is. But it wasn't red. It wasn't red.

[Jason Lock]

Yes, I'm just.

[Tony Kornheiser]

It wasn't red.

[Jason Lock]

Orange is a distinct color from lemon lime.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay, well, I. Okay, then I can't hear and I can't see. Let's just talk about what we did the other day when we had Jeannie on and we talked about the end of the Washington Post sports section, which you have not felt yet because they have people in Milan, Cortina, and they had somebody at the Super Bowl. You haven't felt it yet. You're going to feel it. Yeah, you're going to feel it, but you haven't felt it yet. Anyway, this is from Mike and only. It was great to hear Jeannie's voice on the podcast today. It was like hearing the voice of an old friend or a favorite aunt that you've missed. I could hear the emotion in her voice talking about the fate of the Post Sports section and her former colleagues. And that hit me hard. Like many Littles out there, I'm sure the Post is meaningful to me, just like this podcast has special meaning. Thank you to Jeannie for her role in both, and to you all for continuing to put a thoughtful, entertaining, and comforting product that I can count on in a world that seems hell bent on stripping away valuable institutions that I've taken for granted. That speaks for a lot of people. For Mike in only. That speaks for a lot of.

[Jason Lock]

So I sent Jean a picture of our boys just because she hadn't seen them in a while. And as I'm writing to her, I realize in the picture, two of our three boys are older than I was when you guys took the Bandwagon tour.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay. Yeah. In 1992, you were not. You were five and a half years old. Yeah, yeah. Jeannie and I and Norman, Chad. Yeah, It's a long time ago. I still have pictures, of course. Let me just speak briefly to the Olympics. Lindsey Von, very early in the run, crashed, and she got her arm, her right arm caught up in a flag. Yeah.

[Fora]

It looked like a pole.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yes. You know, and she went down and she had to be airlifted off the mountain. I don't think it diminishes her attempt at all. No, but she didn't win. I mean, the greatest story would be win would get some sort of medal or get the gold medal. It was not to be. The interesting thing to me was an American won that race. Breezy Johnson won that race. Nobody knows who she is. Everybody knows Lindsey Von. So the headline is, Von crashes. Breezy Johnson wins gold. Von is the headline, and Breezy Johnson is the second line.

[Jason Lock]

It's a great name.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Breezy. Oh, sure. Yeah. So, you know, everybody tried to watch that. I know everybody watched that. I watched that. I tried to watch other things in the Olympics, but the skating. I didn't watch the skate, because sometimes it's on and sometimes it's not. And yet the quad. God did very well last night, and we got a team gold medal. I don't know if that hurts him for the individual gold medal. Eli Malin or something like.

[Fora]

Something like that.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. Ilia Malin, locally.

[Fora]

I think he's from Vienna or something.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I didn't know that.

[Fora]

Not Vienna, Austria. Like.

[Tony Kornheiser]

No, I didn't know that. Vienna, Virginia. So I'm going to watch more of that as time goes on. But you can't really compete with the Super Bowl. When NBC kicks the Olympics out and puts it on USA all day so that it can do six hours of super bowl preview, that tells you what the super bowl means to America as opposed to every other sporting event. Every other sporting event, which now we get to. Oh, can I get to one other thing?

[Jason Lock]

So you're saying if you're a PGA Tour, you would not want to see it go to a playoff that starts, I don't know, 10 minutes before the Super Bowl.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I watched it. I watched the playoffs, but I was going back and forth.

[Jason Lock]

Hideki helped you out.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Back and forth. We'll get to this with Wilbon. I'm sure he watched it, too. Hideki Matsuyama is a great player. He gagged on 18 twice in a row. Twice.

[Jason Lock]

Well, to be fair, he had been gagging off the tee all day.

[Tony Kornheiser]

He was spraying.

[Jason Lock]

The broadcast did an interesting analysis as to his setup. He was leaning into his left side a lot, which is why he saw a lot of those misses. But the. The miss in the playoff into the water was clearly an overcorrection.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, and got her up. Who, you know, has. Has come on like gangbusters in the last year.

[Jason Lock]

And his five birdies, five of the last six holes.

[Tony Kornheiser]

And then he. He gets in the playoffs and. And then he birdies the first hole and he wins. So that was what's interesting. DG hangs out with him. DG knows. Gorup.

[Fora]

Our dg.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Our DG knows. Got up.

[Jason Lock]

If you want to think that the game of golf has changed, just looked at the top 10 of that event and to see how far they hit the ball. And again, ball speed does not lie. These kid. These kids are hitting 185 plus. And this is usually a good event to see who's playing well because a lot of players carry this form into the Masters. You've seen this with Hidecki. You've seen this with Brooks Koepko.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Hidecki is a great player. Yeah, he just had a really great.

[Jason Lock]

Putter, great chipper the ball.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So anyway, so we get to the super bowl now, and we get to it after six or seven minutes on the air because it wasn't much of a game. I mean, the Seattle defense was throttling New England. Drake May looked out of his league.

[Fora]

Yeah, well, that left tackle couldn't handle.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay, but, you know, before the game, if anybody listened to me either here or on pti, you would have heard me say the following thoughts. One was that I thought the better story would be New England winning because of Mike Vrabel being in his first year and Drake May being so young. And that would give us reason to talk about Vrabel and May in the context of Belichick and Brady. I just thought it was a better story. I think Seattle is most. Mostly a faceless team. Wilbon said the better story would be Sam Darnold winning and exercising all of the ghosts in his life. Okay, that's not. I. I disagree with Wilbourne, but that's a legitimate point. Last night, Donald wasn't very good. He was okay. He didn't do anything wrong. Didn't do anything great at a couple.

[Jason Lock]

Almost.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. Yes. You know, and was trying to fit it in, you know, pretty into, as they say, tight windows. And he was fine. He just wasn't very good. When it got to 16, nothing at the beginning of the fourth quarter, I wrote Wilbourne a text that said, game over. Good night. I was done with the game. Wilburn wrote me back. Oh, well, Sam Darnold could screw it up, don't you think? You know, I didn't. I didn't. And then what was. Was no game. It was just no game. Now, why does this happen? Why did someone like me say that even though the better story would be New England winning, that I thought Seattle would win. You heard me say I'd be very surprised if Seattle. If New England won by a lot. I would not be surprised if Seattle won by a lot. I wouldn't be surprised if Seattle won on the under or one on the over. You know, Seattle is better. I thought that they were going to win. Why did I think that? They went through the tougher conference and. And they went through the hardest division in the conference. And they beat San Francisco and the Rams twice. And they. These were the better. The better teams. New England faced an easier schedule. New England faced a less daunting position going into the final because Denver's quarterback, starting quarterback, was unable to play. I'm not taking anything away from New England. New England was 4 and 13 last year. 4 and 13 the year before with two different coaches. Okay. Belichick's last year, 4 and 13. Gerard Mayo, 4 and 13 and out. They bring in this guy, former Patriot player with three super bowl rings, I believe. From New England.

[Fora]

Yeah, two or three.

[Tony Kornheiser]

And he changes everything. Yeah. You know, they go from 4 and 13 to 17 and 4 or something like that, you know, so, you know, nothing to take away from them. But that game wasn't much of a game. And the Seattle defense and that guy. And we'll talk to Jason about this McDonald, who is a year younger than my son.

[Jason Lock]

Thank you.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. What have you done? Has just won. He's just won a Super Bowl. And he. He sustained the great defense of the Baltimore Ravens before leaving and created a logical heir to the legion of boom at Seattle on defense. And New England could do nothing with it.

[Fora]

Couldn't do.

[Tony Kornheiser]

New England went three and out like six times in the first half and.

[Jason Lock]

You had a couple of, you know, back to back drives at the end of the third where you had a chance and May had the openings. Just did not. Did not make their throw.

[Tony Kornheiser]

No, they didn't do it. No.

[Fora]

Was not good enough. And.

[Tony Kornheiser]

And it was a great season. And it ends on a man.

[Jason Lock]

And now you see what you do next year with the schedule.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, they get a much tougher schedule. I did pay attention.

[Jason Lock]

Any commercials for you?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yes, I paid attention.

[Jason Lock]

I'm now in the sweet spot where I. They are now preying on nostalgia for me. I'm now that old Will Bond.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Hates all the commercials. Hates them all. Unless there's a famous basketball player in them then.

[Jason Lock]

Can't hate the Backstreet Boys. Come on. That Howie D. Finally got his moments. Gave him some airtime.

[Tony Kornheiser]

This was Kevin. I wrote down the ones That I thought were good. Ones that I thought were good.

[Jason Lock]

There's one that clearly rises to the top.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Mike had one for eating real food that was tremendous. I said, what is he doing? Mike Tyson said, I used to get drunk, I used to eat junk and now I was fat and now I eat good food.

[Jason Lock]

Love to see the.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That was really good. The Goodwill Duncan one. That's. I don't know how they did it. How they re age. They went backwards on all the ages of these people. I don't know how they did it. I. I liked it. Yeah, I liked it. Who was.

[Jason Lock]

How do you like donuts?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, so. So Damon was in it and. And Matt. What's not Matt Damon? And who's the other guy?

[Jason Lock]

Ben Affleck.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Ben Affleck. They were in it and. And the guy from Cheers was in it. Ted Danson was in it. Like, I didn't really understand how they did this. Jason Alexander was in it. I really thought that was fun. I thought that was fun. The Budweiser ad with the pony and the bird that turned into a Clydesdale and an eagle was tremendous. Yeah, it's a beautiful ad.

[Jason Lock]

My almost 9 year old react when he sees the eagle. You're like, yep, this is how they, they. They know the emotions.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yep. Yeah. Pringles is always good. And the Pringles ad was pretty good.

[Fora]

Sabrina Carpenter.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Fora]

Yeah. Making the Pringles man.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. So I thought. Yeah, I thought that was Girl Meets World. Come on. What else did I like? Oh, there was a father and a daughter for Lays. They grow their potato farmers and he retires. And it was very moving. It was very lovely.

[Fora]

I felt like that should have featured Buster in that ad. Well, as a potato farmer, yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

But they missed on him. But it was really good. There was a T Mobile ad with the boy band. That was tremendous. Yes, that's the Backstreet Boys. That was tremendous. Tell me why that was really good. The polar bear ad for Pepsi was lovely. Quiet and lovely.

[Jason Lock]

What did you think of Guy Fieri?

[Tony Kornheiser]

I hated that ad.

[Michael Wilbon]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I'm a guy. I don't like Guy. I don't like him.

[Jason Lock]

Bosch.

[Tony Kornheiser]

There was a Redfin Realty in a new neighborhood that was pretty good. I hate. I don't hate. I'm not crazy about Matthew McConaughey, but was he with Bradley Cooper? Yes.

[Fora]

There's been a whole.

[Tony Kornheiser]

It was pretty good.

[Fora]

There's a whole Uber Eats thing that.

[Tony Kornheiser]

They'Re saying it wasn't the other thing. It wasn't that AI thing that he does. With.

[Fora]

With.

[Tony Kornheiser]

From Cheers. Yeah.

[Jason Lock]

No, there was a lot of AI last night.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That was like when they did years ago, people thinking critical of AI Which I like.

[Fora]

Yeah. But no, that's a. That's a. An ad campaign been doing a while with Bradley Cooper where they say the subliminal. Everything with the NFL is about food and it's.

[Tony Kornheiser]

It's. So there were two that I really, really liked with famous people. I don't understand the one with Ben Stiller at all for Bananas. I loved it. It was Instacart.

[Fora]

Yeah, I love.

[Tony Kornheiser]

It was. That was my bananas. Yeah. Well, I was. Yeah, they were rock stars. Who was the other guy?

[Fora]

I think it was Paul Pascal.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I don't know who that is.

[Fora]

Well, he's going to play one of the Beatles in the Sam Mendez movies coming up.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Fora]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

But I didn't understand it at all.

[Fora]

But it made me laugh the loudest out of it.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I really liked it. And I loved this. The Adrian Brody ads.

[Fora]

Oh.

[Tony Kornheiser]

When Adrian Brody at the end, when he says, this is from Tax. And he says, if there's no drama, there's no Adrian Brody. So I loved all of them. Wilburn wouldn't have liked any of them. I'm sure he would think they're all junk, but I like those. Were there any I left out that.

[Jason Lock]

You would not get? The Pokemon one, but my son loved it.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, I didn't get it.

[Fora]

There was the Kurt Russell. I think it was Ultralight Beer, where he coached the kid.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That was either Kurt Russell or Jeff Bridges. It was Kurt Russell.

[Fora]

Kurt Russell.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yes, it was. Okay.

[Fora]

And then there was some Brad Pitt movie that I didn't want to see it. Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I can't remember movies that they showed. I didn't want to see for you.

[Fora]

I felt like I kind of wanted to see the Brad Pitt one. Looked like it might be fun.

[Tony Kornheiser]

They re aged him the other way, too. He's 60 years old. Yeah.

[Fora]

You know, they do this weird stuff.

[Tony Kornheiser]

But the boy band one was fun. That was the group Backstreet.

[Jason Lock]

Backstreet Boys.

[Fora]

I immediately thought of you.

[Jason Lock]

It's a great documentary that you can go back and watch about the relationship of. Of Nick. Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

But the Brian. The Ben Stiller had where he falls off the stage.

[Fora]

He's just jealous that the other guy's stealing his head.

[Michael Wilbon]

I don't know what it is.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I thought it was for actually. For Bananas.

[Fora]

Well, they were singing about Bananas, but I think it was for somebody called Instacart, where you can shop. So that was for. I Loved it.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jason Lock]

Always got to split your bananas.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Wilbur's not gonna like any of them, right?

[Fora]

He doesn't know.

[Tony Kornheiser]

It's all.

[Fora]

It's all hocus pocus junk to him, isn't it?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, it's too bad. All right, Wilbaum. When we return, I'm Tony Kornheiser.

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You're listening to the Tony Kornheiser show.

[Tony Kornheiser]

This is Emmy Wildwood. This is a song called Falls on youn. The note says, long time, first time. I'm currently digging myself out of about 18 inches of snow in the Massachusetts area, but wanted to reach out. My brother and his wife are musicians in the Brooklyn area. I can't believe I didn't think of this beforehand as I've been listening to POD for many years, but just dawned on me to have them send me some of their songs. My brother Nick Williams was in a band called Twin Wave and has since gone solo as his alter ego, Nick Poole. You'll hear from him later. My sister in law is Emmy Williams, who performs as Emmy Wildwood. She's also in an all girl Guns N Roses cover band called Guns N Hoses that plays in the Brooklyn area frequently, including the famous Bowery Ballroom in Arlene's Grocery. Isn't that great?

[Fora]

That's great.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So this is Emmy, Emmy Wildwood. And this is Falls on you. And it plays in Michael Wilbot. And I told people in the open that at 16, nothing. I texted you and I said, game over, good night. And you texted me back, what about Sam Darnold? And my thoughts were. My thoughts were that game was over. And when I woke up this morning, I realized that game was over. It was a great, great NFL season and great, great NFL playoffs and this was not. It was not.

[Michael Wilbon]

Nope. It was a dud. But you know, one thing I appreciated, Tony, or the thing I appreciated was Seattle just putting the beat down on the New England Patriots.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yes. Yes.

[Michael Wilbon]

A smackdown.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yes.

[Michael Wilbon]

They're just a better team.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yes.

[Michael Wilbon]

Better in every. Better at every position.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Didn't we say that on Friday on the show we both talked about? I mean, I know we disagreed on what's better story would be, but we both said they're just better, better.

[Michael Wilbon]

Yeah. Yeah, they were. They are. You look at the mvp, you know, I mean, I know New England's got a nice rookie running back Trayvon Henderson that they like. He ain't Kenneth Walker.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Nope.

[Michael Wilbon]

You look at every. You look at the offensive line, offensive line play in New England is just not ready for prime time in that way.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Right.

[Michael Wilbon]

And you know, maybe runner up might have been a little bit too high in the MVP calculations for Drake May, who has a wonderful career ahead of him, no matter what.

[Tony Kornheiser]

He had no game yesterday. Like, the point I made was Sam Darnold was okay, Wasn't very good. He was okay. Didn't lose the game, didn't win the game. Drake May was no good. He was no good yesterday. Right.

[Michael Wilbon]

Well, Drake May was no good because he had a defense kicking his ass.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Oh, it's true, it's true. They were in on him all the time. You got to get, you know, everybody will tell you, you got to get rid of the ball quicker, son. You gotta.

[Michael Wilbon]

Well, I mean he couldn't get rid of the ball any quicker. I mean, he had this, this is all Seattle. This is to me, no failing of anything New England did or New England couldn't because they got overwhelmed. Maybe the performance is not exactly what New England, the same franchise faced in 1985, but it was close to that. They had nothing going on and Seattle wasn't going to let them.

[Tony Kornheiser]

They had.

[Michael Wilbon]

So to me, framing everything is necessary. The framing is that of a superior Seattle team.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So if you were writing a column last night, your column, even though you've said to me that Sam Darnold winning is a great story for Sam Darnold, your column would have been the Seattle defense, right?

[Michael Wilbon]

Probably. Yeah. Kenneth Walker. It would have been those two old fashioned sort of defense and running game. Yeah, you know, we, everybody likes to talk about the new age of football. There was nothing new age about that. And so that would. And you know what, Tony? This still would have been a touch of Sam Darnold. Sam Darnold did enough and he was also under some pressure. New England's defense did nothing to embarrass itself.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's right. You hold that team to the first half, it's nine nothing. You stop them from getting in the end zone. Three different. Yeah, yeah. The New England offense was non functional. You know, it happens. But again, to me this is a product and I know you will agree it's a product of being in the tougher conference and being in the toughest division of the tougher conference.

[Michael Wilbon]

Yeah, yeah. I mean we saw that Seattle had contend with that all year. I wonder what's going to change, if anything, next season. You know, they, they, they go back, they start playing with two other teams, the Rams and Niners, who are going to look to be formidable again.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's right. No, that's right.

[Michael Wilbon]

That's where Seattle starts. That's where the NFL starts the season next year.

[Tony Kornheiser]

No, you're right. So now I just. In the beginning of the show, I talked about the seven or eight commercials that I really like. You generally hate the commercials. Was there anything you liked?

[Michael Wilbon]

No. Even the commercials are just overstated, overrated. They're obnoxious. They all try by five times to be cute. And there's no. No.

[Tony Kornheiser]

You didn't like Mike Tyson for real food.

[Michael Wilbon]

Well, by then I had probably stopped. Stopped paying attention.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Oh, okay. There were a bunch I liked. There always are. There always are. I always like. For example, I am always moved by the Budweiser ad. The Budweiser ad. This time, the small Clydesdale pony has a bird on its back and it grows up to be a big Clydesdale with a bald eagle. It was just beautiful. It was just beautiful.

[Michael Wilbon]

I am philosophically troubled by every product that tries to attach itself and tell you how American they are. That, for me is a no, no.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Oh, okay. Well, we're not going to go down this road. I mean, because I. There are a bunch of them that I like. But let's go down another road that is meaningful to both of us. The passing of sonny Jurgensen at 91 years old. The other day on Friday, you worked with Sonny. You love Sonny? Love him.

[Michael Wilbon]

Yep. Tony, I was very lucky to be able to every Thursday night, you know, because you were involved on Thursday nights, sometimes Redskins reporting, you know, people, the show, Full Court Press, which is a basketball show.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yep.

[Michael Wilbon]

I'll just tell quickly how this show came to be. So Jordan Michaels ratings, as you know, were so ridiculously high on Thursday night at these weird times 7. And then at midnight, he would have, he would have a share that would be in the 60s and 70s, meaning the percentage of televisions turned to him and us on Channel 4 on Saturday nights. And so NBC said, george, you can't just do this for 20 weeks. Come up with another show for 20 more weeks, come up with a basketball show that's going to be on the same time in basketball season. And George was completely annoyed, didn't want to do it. And Sonny said, what are you talking about? This will be easy to do. It'll be great. And Sonny Jurgensen essentially executive produced the basketball show. And what you know that people and I know that people don't know is that Sonny Jurgensen grew up fancying himself and wanting to be an NBA player.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Michael Wilbon]

Sonny was a point guard. You see that great. That, that, that footage of him whipping like a 30 yard pass behind his back with a Football. Sonny. Sonny was that in basketball. And he went to Duke and he was supposed to play both sports. And he was so good as a football quarterback on the freshman team. Somebody, an athletic director, coach somebody said, you're done with basketball. We can't afford to have you get hurt. And therefore, hall of Fame football only career was born. And Sonny, you know, loved all sports. He had this huge satellite dish at his home in Virginia, and he'd stay up watching all these games long before it was Vogue, long before it was trendy. Sonny did that. And he was just, you know, he was a great storyteller. And to sit around with him and John Riggins for I got to do that for 13 years was irreplaceable. I am grateful I got to do it. I saw John recently at a dinner and of course, we talked about those days and about Sonny to some degree. And, yeah, for those people who got to enjoy Sonny Jurgensen in his 91 years, Tony, how about this? Sonny Jurgensen lived 91 years, and he spent a chunk of that, like 15 getting smashed around by people like Deacon Jones.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's right.

[Michael Wilbon]

And it's amazing that Sonny got to live that long, live that long and.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Kept it, kept his brains. Did not, to our knowledge, had cte. We didn't think he had CTE on any level. There was one Super Bowl, I remember this. You and I were sitting with Sonny and Sam Huff, and we had lunch, and when they left, I said, whoa. We just sat with Sam Huff and Sonny Jurgensen. Whoa.

[Michael Wilbon]

Yeah, it was.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Whoa.

[Michael Wilbon]

It was so great. And on Sundays, Sonny would sit in the locker room post game, he would just sort of sit in the middle with a notebook and he would share the observations. My God. All the times I wrote columns where Sonny would say, hey, did you know? Did you see this? Did you know this? Of course I didn't see it.

[Tony Kornheiser]

No. He. Jurgense. That's right. That's right. That's right.

[Michael Wilbon]

You know, and it was so cool to then have benefit of Sonny's eyes and wisdom and what he saw during a game. And. Yeah, you know, we're at that stage, Tony, where the people that you and I both grew up watching and then having some professional discourse with dialogue, sitting around at the Palms, sitting around a TV studio. Those. Those gentlemen are leaving us.

[Tony Kornheiser]

They are. Sonny was very. Sonny was great. Sonny was. Sonny was great. He really was. He was friendly and open and very nice. Did you watch the golf? Didn't you? You watched the golf yesterday? I watched. What did you make of what did you make of him on. On 18 twice having terrible drive. What? Come on. This is Matsuyama. He's a great player.

[Michael Wilbon]

Well, it just shows you that the great players can have moments that aren't so great.

[Jason Lock (continued, possibly a second analyst)]

Wow.

[Michael Wilbon]

And, you know, it was interesting because there was, you know, discourse with him and his caddy and of course, on television with. With Nance about whether he was going to pull out driver or not, or whether he was just going to hit three wood to just get it in the fairway. Stay away from the, from the church pew bunkers.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Michael Wilbon]

And he decided to go with driver both times. And you're like, oh, my God. Just this is. But, you know, look, great player.

[Jason Lock]

Three fairways all day.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Three fairways all day is all he hit. That's all he hit. And he was still in the lead at the end.

[Jason Lock]

He was making birdies from the desert.

[Jason Lock (continued, possibly a second analyst)]

Yes.

[Michael Wilbon]

I was going to say it's not like having a flat shot 122 yards out of a bunker is scaring Hideki Matsuyama. It's not. But he just, you know, when he, when, when you heard that sound of him hitting the back of that ball and that low trajectory, it was like, my God, I do this. Not Hideki Matsuyama.

[Tony Kornheiser]

All right, we'll move on. Did you watch Lindsey Vonn? I waited for it. I scheduled my day on the replay to watch it. Okay. You didn't. But last week, we led a show with Lindsey Vonn, and you were the most enthusiastic person. You said how courageous she was, how great this was, and how you would absolutely watch it.

[Michael Wilbon]

Well, no, I said how courageous she was.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Right.

[Michael Wilbon]

I, I, you know, you know, I wish somebody had told you this last night via text. I wish somebody close to her had gotten in her ear and said, don't do this.

[Tony Kornheiser]

But no, not what you said on tv.

[Michael Wilbon]

It's still courageous.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Michael Wilbon]

It doesn't negate her courage. Yeah, but it doesn't mean I have to watch it. I watched it and I. It doesn't mean I want to. Joe Zeisman's courageous. I don't want to watch it.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So it is interesting, though, I mentioned this at the top of the show. The American Breezy Johnson won the gold medal there. And yet the headline has to be, Vaughn crashes second line. Breezy Johnson wins gold. Vaughn gets the headline. Right. Has to.

[Michael Wilbon]

Yeah, it has to. There's no question, Tony.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Michael Wilbon]

About that. And I sort of. I was, I don't know, I was going to get a car wash, which right now takes about six hours. Six hours. Anywhere east of Denver. Takes about six hours to get a car wash. So I was doing that. I'm sitting in my car and I'm looking at my text messages and they're like three of them that come up that refer to Lindsey Vaughn's fall.

[Tony Kornheiser]

And I'm not.

[Michael Wilbon]

I'm not watching.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So you didn't watch it. Did you watch the quad? God. Did you watch him at all?

[Michael Wilbon]

I watched Zero Olympics yesterday. I watched Go Really?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay. I went back and forth till they shut it off and stuck it on USA network so that they could do a six hour pregame show. Six hours?

[Michael Wilbon]

Yeah, yeah. I just. And you know what? I admire a little bit further down on the admire meters, down the same level as Lindsey Vaughn. I mean, the NBC folks, including my friends, our friends who are Maria Taylor, Mike Tirico, they left by the time you and I were. Well, you weren't. I was looking at Kenneth Walker receive an mvp.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, I didn't, I didn't stay up for that.

[Michael Wilbon]

Everybody else was on a.

[Tony Kornheiser]

On a plane to Italy aircraft. Yeah, they're going Italy to Italy. Yeah, yeah, I get it. I mean, that's, you know, that's what you're supposed to. Supposed to do. What else did I have? I'm glad. So you didn't watch any of the quad? God, you have to watch him at some point. He's David Thompson. It's different. He goes up in the air and does something that nobody does and he does it six times. So you need to just see it. It's like Usain Bolt. You love Usain Bolt. This is Usain Bolt. It is. It's different.

[Michael Wilbon]

Anybody else ever. Usain Bolt?

[Tony Kornheiser]

It's different.

[Michael Wilbon]

This, this quad guy is. He is saying skater or skier?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Skater. Skater.

[Michael Wilbon]

I won't see it.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Oh, you have to. Just being ridiculous.

[Michael Wilbon]

I mean, skating was on a TV in my home and I. I just avoided it. I just said, if you're gonna watch that, then I'm gonna go to a bigger TV somewhere else. I can stream something.

[Tony Kornheiser]

This will make for a wonderful show today. A wonderful show, you know. So, Tony, what do you think of this? Well, Mike didn't to want watch it.

[Michael Wilbon]

Not gonna watch skating?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Michael Wilbon]

No skating ever.

[Tony Kornheiser]

All right.

[Michael Wilbon]

Never.

[Tony Kornheiser]

All right. That's it.

[Michael Wilbon]

I don't believe in it. It's. You know what, Tony? I will say this. It is spectacular. You know, I've watched in my life because I've been there. But. But is it sports? It's a spectacle like few other things. But is it a sport?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Is diving Is diving a sport?

[Michael Wilbon]

Maybe not.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's. Yeah. I mean, because we're talking about things that are judged and how it works. I understand. But is diving a sport? Is gymnastics a sport? I see what they do.

[Michael Wilbon]

I have a problem. I have a problem with that. And I watch it. I am amazed by it. The people who do it are among the greatest athletes on the planet.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yep.

[Michael Wilbon]

But if there's no clock or person involved in the judgment.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, I understand that. I mean, that's like. We can argue that golf is not a sport on some level in the way that we understand sports. But when the ball goes in the cup and you win, there's no ambiguity. You win.

[Michael Wilbon]

There's some objectivity. You win, you know, and so there's not the skating and then Tony part of it. So being there. You know this because you covered it.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yep.

[Michael Wilbon]

Like, the judges are there in their fur coats. I don't want to see.

[Tony Kornheiser]

All right. Get out of here. I'll see you later.

[Michael Wilbon]

All right, Tom.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Michael Wilbon in a freshly cleaned car. We will take a break. Jason Lock and for will join us when we return. I'm Tony Kornheiser.

[Commercial Announcer]

This is the Tony Kornheiser show.

[Michael Wilbon]

Tony Cornheiser show.

[Tony Kornheiser]

This is Nick Poole, whose real name is Nick Williams, but he goes as Nick Pool. His brother sent this in. This is called Punk Rock and Ice Cream. It's great. Great title for song. These are. These are lovely songs. Michael, if people like Nick Pool and Emmy Wildwood want to get their music played here, how do they do it?

[Jason Lock]

Send us your music by emailing it to jingles Tony Koniser Show.com plays in.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Jason Lock and Fora not much of a game. I was. I was eager to have you on on to talk about the game and the turning points in the game and this, that and the other thing. And there were no turning points because Seattle coached by someone I assume you know, from his days in Baltimore. The Seattle defense smothered New England and Drake May looked like a kid. He looked like a kid. What are your thoughts on all of it?

[Jason Lock (continued, possibly a second analyst)]

Yeah, I mean, look, sometimes you overthink things and you get yourself twisted up in a pretzel. And sometimes you've studied and watched and looked at data and looked at film and watched these games and talked to people you trust in the league. And sometimes it just is what it is. And this was the men versus the boys. And I thought that. I think we talked the Monday after the championship games. And I'm like, boy, Seattle's got the better Offense, the better defense, the better special teams, the better quarterback and the better coach. So that's going to take a real. And Drake may not look right to me. He looks like a 22 year old who's over his skis and hasn't faced anybody. And that's a knock on his MVP credentials. It's just a fact. And unfortunately for him, he's going against the NFL's arguably number one defensive master tactician at the height of his powers with two weeks to prepare for a 22 year old whose right shoulder doesn't seem right to me. So I think it's a bloodbath and I think you should be willing to lay 10 points with Seattle. I think you should look into alternate lines and I don't think Drake may is doing anything with his arm and he better do a lot with his legs. And the only New England player we were on and receiving props, at least I was, was Matt Collins. To have three or more, everybody in the world telling me Hunter Henry is a great matchup. I said, fade Hunter Henry and put your money on the other tight end on Seattle's tight end. And you can get 2 to 1 on Seattle's tight end to have more receiving yards than Hunter Henry. That. That was pretty much over at halftime. Correct. Score. What do you think the score is going to be, Jason? I think it's going to be 30 to 13 or 33 to 13. Shame on me, Tom.

[Tony Kornheiser]

No.

[Jason Lock (continued, possibly a second analyst)]

Yeah, I was way off on that one.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. Off by a full point. Yeah. I felt the same way that Seattle was better, that Seattle was going to have to lose the game because I didn't think New England was going to be able to win the game at that point. You are familiar with McDonald. McDonald was a defensive coordinator with the Baltimore Ravens and he sustained the Ravens defense. He didn't create it, he sustained it. Then he goes to Seattle and he does this. What are your, you know, what are your thoughts on him?

[Jason Lock (continued, possibly a second analyst)]

I would say he did more than sustain it. Did he say he re elevated it?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay.

[Jason Lock (continued, possibly a second analyst)]

Had fallen under Wink Martindale and Look, the first eight games under Mike McDonald. I know we live in a world where everything's mythologized. He was getting his butt chewed out by Marcus Peters. He was having people in that building, you know, asking some questions and they went out and they made a trade for Roquan Smith and in hindsight, they overpaid financially. But the draft picks in real time, once he got Roquan Smith in the central nervous system of his defense and the guy who could impart all that wisdom quickly. Then things took off and his second year was absolutely master class all the way through. Historically significant defense. And he is most certainly in Baltimore right now the one that got away. There's also, you know, a real time mythologizing that because they hired another, a 40 year old who was in their building a long time ago, who also did a good job running a defense for two years as a coordinator, in this case Jesse Minter with the Chargers, that this is McDonald 2.0. I think McDonald's got a lot of unicorn in him. I don't think you can extrapolate that. I also think McDonald was smart enough to go and find Leslie Frazier immediately as successful. Not just a guy who coached as a head coach a little bit. A successful head coach and a master defensive coordinator himself who has a skill set like Mike McDonald's actually on the same side of the ball and rather be threatened by that. He leaned into all that. And they go 10 and seven year one and they win a Super bowl in year two. Jesse mentioned at this point has been hiring people who are younger than Jesse mentor. So I think these immediate parallels that we draw in this day and age are really dangerous. I think. You know, I remember people telling me Brandon staley was Mike McDonald before Mike McDonald. Brandon staley put a, put a staff of wankers together and a bunch of dudes who were less experienced than him. And it failed so bad in the Chargers that that's where Mr. Came in and immediately, you know, restored it and becomes a head coach in two years. So I think McDonald is brilliant and I think he might be like, we've been waiting for the McVeigh of defense, right? Again, it was supposed to be Staley. It's been supposed to be a few other guys. Look, I think it could be Brian Flores, if anybody would hire him to be a head coach. But, you know, he's. He's not the right color. Like that's just a fact. The way these billionaires operate. If Brian Flores was white, Brian Flores probably had three jobs by now. I think this could be the McVeigh of defense, that McDonald's the guy who sprouts the family tree and takes that hardball coaching tree that he's a part of to another level and does it on the defensive side of the ball. Where to this point, one Harbaugh was a special teams guy and the other one was obviously a quarterback.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Let me, let me ask you about this because it does seem, and I could be wrong, I'm going off the top of my head here, it does seem that on a two to one basis, maybe even a three to one basis, people hire young offensive guys over young defensive guys. Or am I making that up?

[Jason Lock (continued, possibly a second analyst)]

No, no, that's, that's part of the excuse they use to whitewash their systematic racism. But yes, and then they don't want to hire black guys, even black former quarterbacks to rise up the ranks and become offensive coordinators. So that, I mean, it really is a self fulfilling prophecy when some of the best quarterback coaches and best wide receivers and tight end coaches who happen to be African American and happen to have played the game at a high level, they get kind of, they hit their ceiling at top position coach and you know, it's a certain type of guy who keeps becoming the rising hot offensive coordinator. And then they all lean into that, chasing the next McVeigh now that eventually it started. I mean, look, this should have been a year where more defensive guys got, got jobs and several did, which was already a step. But then you look at who did and who didn't and it's like, well, wait a minute, so Lance Joseph doesn't and you know, Brian Flores doesn't, but these other guys do. Okay, halfway does.

[Tony Kornheiser]

But even, even if you eliminate that, even if you eliminate that, right. I'm saying that it does appear always that offense seems to be what people want to hire ahead of defense. That's all I'm saying.

[Jason Lock (continued, possibly a second analyst)]

No, like they, they want to have someone who can help them figure out the quarterback position and then for a while, ideally win while the quarterback can't make any money because he's on a rookie.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Right.

[Jason Lock (continued, possibly a second analyst)]

And so if you're a defensive guy, you've got to really try to be aligned with one of those up and coming offensive guys. The problem for the good defensive guys is those up and coming offensive guys in many cases skip a level and they don't have to prove they can call plays before somebody gives them a chance to call plays.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Right?

[Jason Lock (continued, possibly a second analyst)]

And they don't have to prove they're even an offensive coordinator before some people are willing to make them a head coach.

[Tony Kornheiser]

So this was, this was an oddity. You have two defensive guys here, Vrabel and McDonald are defensive guys.

[Jason Lock (continued, possibly a second analyst)]

That's, it's an oddity, but I think it's also emblematic of where the like the pendulum swung too far to the offense. And so at some point some smart teams would push back on that. The idea of retreads being a dirty word. Well, I think you really need to dig down on what happened in Tennessee. And like even I think Stefanski's got a chance to injure what was really like, like what was really going on in the Cleveland Browns organization while he was there. So not being afraid to hire somebody with some warts from the past regime if you do the right homework. And this was a defensive lead this year. I mean we're talking about Drake May as to MVP candidate and this is his first season ever starting. Yeah, like injuries played a role and you know the Chiefs tumbling and this and that.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I think that's the biggest thing in.

[Michael Wilbon]

The entire defensive league.

[Tony Kornheiser]

The entire, the entire league. The biggest thing was the Chiefs of league.

[Jason Lock (continued, possibly a second analyst)]

It was a mediocre offensive league.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay.

[Jason Lock (continued, possibly a second analyst)]

And Seattle and the Rams were two of the teams that had the best mix. Now the Rams defense fell off late in the year a little bit, but was still good enough that I think they would have beat anybody other than Seattle for the, for the title. And Seattle had the combination of explosives in the pass game more than anybody in the league, which they didn't even need. Didn't even have a Pass play over 27 yards in that game. And it was still a blowout. But you knew they had. And Smith and Jigba missed half the game.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, he got hurt.

[Jason Lock (continued, possibly a second analyst)]

But that element combined with the truly elite defense was probably going to carry the day. It's why New England got as far as they did. Yeah, the offense did some interesting things in a regular season against terrible defenses. But it was that defense that held it down for them during a playoff run where the 22 year old looked like a 22 year old and they still got to the super bowl because of the.

[Tony Kornheiser]

No, that's true. Well, they also had. They had the great fortune of playing their last game against a team whose quarterback was out.

[Jason Lock (continued, possibly a second analyst)]

I mean, in a blizzard.

[Michael Wilbon]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. So I mean that helps. Is there anything about the game that was interesting to you that we haven't touched on? Any particular thing that would surprised you or impressed you?

[Jason Lock (continued, possibly a second analyst)]

Well, I think the fact that Seattle didn't, I mean didn't get anything deep downfield and Smith and Jigba misses part of the game. So they can then go put Gonzalez on Shahid, which did hurt me in my prop bets and keep him from going.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Gonzalez had at least two, maybe three deflected passes that were really good.

[Jason Lock (continued, possibly a second analyst)]

I just needed one of those deep ones to fall. We would have really been in. We would be juggling. I'd be a lobster right now. Yeah, we still did fine. But that would have been over the Top. But yeah, I mean, the fact that they didn't get any explosives out of special teams, they didn't get any explosives out of their offense and they got a ton of sacks. But I mean, the defensive score came when, let's face it, the game was pretty much already over. And they still had a vice grip around New England's neck from really, you know, midway through the first quarter on that part. That part of the script surprised me. Like even that came.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Did we lose it? I thought we just lost you for a second.

[Jason Lock (continued, possibly a second analyst)]

Was six or 17 in the first half at one point. Like Sam Darnold was one of six coming to Jackson, Smith and Jigba the greatest.

[Tony Kornheiser]

He wasn't very good. Sam Darnold was okay. He wasn't very good.

[Michael Wilbon]

But passable.

[Jason Lock (continued, possibly a second analyst)]

Barely.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, it's not his. It's not his game. It's the defense's game. They held them. They six, three and out like six times in the first half and then, and then the first possession of the second half and then you said to yourself, okay, it's over, it's over right there. Right.

[Jason Lock (continued, possibly a second analyst)]

Bull to Rabel. Peed down his leg a little bit. Rainbow. They needed to activate the kids legs more. He needed to go to Josh McDaniels like in the second quarter and say, you know, this is the last game one way or the other.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Right.

[Jason Lock (continued, possibly a second analyst)]

Like, where are the RPOs? Like, we need to establish this kid's legs because it's the only thing we're going to do to start danger ice. I thought the play calling was uber conservative. I thought there were chances earlier in that game where maybe you try a fake punt, you do something to shock the system. You go for a fourth down to try to sustain a drive. And then some of his decisions, not going for two. He seemed a little punch drunk and asleep at the wheel to me. I don't think it was Rabel's finest hour. Now, he dealt a tough hand, I get that.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah.

[Jason Lock (continued, possibly a second analyst)]

But it didn't really look to me like he was strapping and clawing and fighting as much as he probably should have been. And I bet in hindsight he'd recognize that.

[Tony Kornheiser]

All right, we can go to. Want to bet? Do you want to say anything about the Washington Post?

[Jason Lock (continued, possibly a second analyst)]

I did. I mean, I. I know you've done.

[Tony Kornheiser]

It, but you know, I mean, if you want to do it again because.

[Jason Lock (continued, possibly a second analyst)]

The broken and pissed off.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Right. The publisher quit or was fired. I don't know which one, but he's out and I'm sure he got a Pile of dough to do it.

[Jason Lock (continued, possibly a second analyst)]

Yeah, he'll be fine. Yeah, he'll be fine. I mean, look, I don't know where that's. That's going. There's obviously a massive void in the minute. Not just in Washington, D.C. in the mid Atlantic region. I mean, I don't know if any of this was on your guys radar. Like I was struck by this because it became a little bit of a tempest on my Twitter. Do you know there's zero and I know the team is bad right now, but they also were flirting with Alpha a year ago. There's nobody traveling with the Maryland basketball. I know there's not a single independent. I mean, maybe the Diamondback, I hope the Diamondback, maybe. But there is no professional media organization that is staffing University of Maryland basketball games on the road.

[Tony Kornheiser]

But they don't staff. They stopped staffing Wizards games on the road. Stopped. And at home as well. They just reduced them to a type of AP kind of writing. Here's what happened. Here's what it means. There was no attempt to do anything more than that. Maryland is a big deal. Georgetown has fallen off. But they don't do any Georgetown on the road. They sometimes don't do Georgetown at home. At home.

[Jason Lock (continued, possibly a second analyst)]

So like, I guess the Big Ten network was pissed off that Buzz Williams didn't do a formal sit down. But it's like Maryland's like, well, he was on a zoom with our reporters because none of our reporters were in Minnesota. So what's the point of him sitting at a dais when there's. When everyone he's talking to is back in D.C. or Baltimore or College Park?

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's it. We are in the midst of something. I do not know. It is shaking out right now. I do not know what the end will be. I will not understand it. I'm too old. But sports coverage as you and I grew up knowing, it is done. It's done.

[Jason Lock (continued, possibly a second analyst)]

You know, I wish I went to the Washington Post sports page the other day just because I was talking to actually an agent, Don Yee, who represents. Yeah, yeah, I know Tom Brady. Donny was, you know, knew Emilio really well done. Ye wrote five or six op EDS for us about the state of football at various times at the Post. And he's like, do you think my articles are still there? I'm like, dude, Sonny Jurgensen died. And I. There's not a. There's not a story on it. Like, I'm like, it's like they're literally like I'm looking at the front of The Washington Post sports page and I want to throw up.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. All right. Plug one a bet for us. Plug it. How'd you do yesterday overall? How'd you do?

[Jason Lock (continued, possibly a second analyst)]

I did okay.

[Michael Wilbon]

I did, I did, I did.

[Jason Lock (continued, possibly a second analyst)]

I look on the teams on the sides, I did great. On props, there weren't a lot. Like if you were over on anything in that game, you weren't great. But my three favorite plays of yesterday on yesterday's show all hit Seattle minus nine and a half. New England to have more turnovers minus 130. The Seattle was two to one and Barner to have more receiving yards than Henry, than Hunter Henry. Yeah, like 176. Yeah. Want to betwithus.com me and but way Ben, you get all of our plays seven days a week, usually 11am every day. If you want it on the audio form, you can find it there. For Spotify, Apple, podcast, we're on my Twitter, we're on YouTube, any markets that exist. We were on a Bundesliga game last night that we crushed Hoffenheim, the Hoff as we like to call them. And Bayern Munich, obviously. College basketball, we're all over that. The NBA, I am doing a little bit of Olympic hockey. We give you all our picks and we keep score ton. We tell you how we did last night, how we've done since we launched the show May 21st and we self scout. So before you back, check with us about 30 minutes a day.

[Michael Wilbon]

Want to betwithus.com we're going to, you.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Know, now that football's over, we forget about you. But we're not going to forget about you because if you're actually, if you can actually pronounce Bundesliga, then when the world cup comes, when the world cup comes, you're going to have to pick everything for us.

[Michael Wilbon]

Oh, yeah, we're all over.

[Jason Lock (continued, possibly a second analyst)]

We're all over that Champions League.

[Tony Kornheiser]

You and Taylor, 12, you know, 12 men. You got to pick everything for us.

[Jason Lock (continued, possibly a second analyst)]

All right, I'll talk sports. Boom. You can check out my original NFL reporting at sportsboom us.

[Tony Kornheiser]

It does everything. Jason does everything. Thank you, Jason.

[Jason Lock (continued, possibly a second analyst)]

Thank you guys.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Jason Lock. And fora boys and girls, we will come back with email and jingle. I'm Tony Kornheiser.

[Commercial Announcer]

You're listening to the Tony Kornheiser show.

[Michael Wilbon]

The Tony Kornheiser show.

[Tony Kornheiser]

It's world champion Chris Ullman, world champion From Binghamton, New York, Chris Ullman, World Champion Whistler World Champion 1 Do the Bethesda Bagel ad.

[Fora]

Bagel sandwiches.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yes.

[Fora]

Always excited about that. Just go to Bethesda Bagels.com for the location in the DC area nearest you. Then pop on in and you'll be thrilled.

[Tony Kornheiser]

And before we get to the mailbag let me just say Close your eyes and I'll kiss you Tomorrow I'll miss you Remember I'll always be true and then while I'm away I'll write home every day and I'll send all my love into you Those are the Beatles and this is in the show because.

[Fora]

Today, in 1964, they made their debut on the Ed Sullivan show and that.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Was the open with that.

[Fora]

They open with that.

[Tony Kornheiser]

They opened with With All My Love.

[Fora]

I want to believe a young Anthony Kornheiser was watching. Yeah, everybody.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, everybody in the world was watching. Everybody. You think Super Bowl Drew thanks to our guests today, Michael Wilbon and Jason Lock. And for thanks as well to today's sponsors. Remember, you can listen to us on Apple podcasts, Spotify Odyssey. Get the show through Apple. Please leave us a review from my friend Michael Norwood, professional development and career coach honors Carolina, who I met. You remember when we met him, Michael we met him in North Carolina driving range. Yeah. And he had he had been on.

[Jason Lock]

The Carolina right outside of Thistle do.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah, that's exactly right. Have played several times with golf with the true unc Michael first t me what are we playing for? Mike? Whatever makes you nervous. Yeah, that's what he says to everybody. He does. He does because he has all the money in the world. And you know why? Because Nike doesn't exist without him. Yes, it's that simple, kids. Justin Johnston Arlington, Virginia Every time you mention a small business, you appreciate it is such a kind gesture and the publicity helps so much. This is reflected in the nice note and gift you receive from the owners of Bin 66. I'm sure the owner of the Grove 23 will be following suit as the praise you gave surely will help his business as well. Steve the Sick of Fan Sonny Jurgensen's passing is another loss for Washington fans. I was here in 1969 in between tours of duty in Vietnam, and I remember the Lombardi led Redskins with Sonny chucking the ball to, among others, Charlie Taylor and Jerry Smith. Those were the days when it was not heard of for a player to have a few beers after practice or even right before the game. Sonny never was one to miss a good time, and I'm reasonably sure he never visited a weight room in his life. But he was a great quarterback. After football, he was a fixture on the local sports scene and the trio of Sonny, Sam and Frank was the best announcing team ever. I would always turn off the TV sound and listen to them on radio. Now only Frank Herzog is with us. Sonny was a joy to watch and maybe even more to hear. RIP Mr. Jurgensen, hope you have some good cigars with you. Yes, I neglected to mention how great that broadcast was. Sonny, Sam and Frank and how people brought transistor radios to the ballpark to listen to them. They were great. They were just absolutely great. From Dave Lundberg in Silver Spring I imagine there will be considerable discussion and many shared memories in the coming days related to the passing of Sonny Jurgensen on Friday. So I wanted to share my own brush with greatness. Story I'm 63. I've lived in a DMV since I was a baby. Through all of the victories and defeats, I fell head over heels for both Sonny and Billy. As a 10 year old kid when the George Allen Coach team launched my never ending love affair with Washington football during their trip to the super bowl against the undefeated Miami Dolphins, even though Sonny didn't play in the game, I was always partial to number nine. For me, no other team has ever stirred such passion, emotion and enthusiasm as my beloved team that fought for old D.C. sonny's winning ways created a deep connection to Washington sports that has stayed with me for a lifetime. One of my fondest memories of Sonny came off the field. My first real job, the first one where I earned a paycheck, was as a bar boy at Indian Springs Country Club when I was 15. One evening there was an event for for Vince Lombardi alumni and Sonny, along with many other Redskins, was in attendance. As the event ended and everyone began leaving the ballroom, they passed by the open door to the back of the bar. I was stocking bottles of beer in the cooler when Sonny spotted me and said something like how about one of those beers for the road? I looked over at my boss, Joe, the head bartender, and he nodded okay, and I handed Sonny a beer. Rest easy Sonny. Thanks for the memories, the Sundays and the stories both in and on and off the field. You'll always be number nine on the field, number one in our hearts. I we get a lot of these. And by the way, some people will be offended by me using the word Redskins, but that was the name of the team at the time. You don't do that anymore, but you cannot historically do that and pretend that wasn't true. From Brian Kearns Listening to your joy about a soup and sandwich from Publix, I thought, hey, I know that place it's my new grocery store. We recently moved from Reston to the Savannah Quarters neighborhood in Pooler, Georgia, a quick 15 minute drive from Michael's favorite airport. On the next trip down through the low country, I'd be happy to host you for a round. If you get hungry after playing and the turkey club isn't up to par, you can walk to that aforementioned Publix for a sub. They will gladly take your cash at any of the registers since there are no self checkouts at this location. God bless them. All open registers are staffed with friendly and helpful live human beings. Plus there is no store card or an app for discounts, just a phone number that they will gladly key in for you since again all open registers are manned by a live person. Sounds like you're kind of place. Hope the DMV Thor has started. You can get back to the course soon. No, no way. Till March? Yeah, no way. Maybe mid March. There's just no way. Gordon Cast in Bluffton Bluffton, South Carolina Next time you're in a Publix, try the fried chicken to die for you.

[Jason Lock]

I recommended you get the chicken dinner.

[Tony Kornheiser]

You've said that. You've said that Andrew in LA your golf report. You gushed about meeting lots of truly great players at Jordan's course LT Gretzky Smoltz. But in describing your pitching history you mentioned a lesser pitcher, Sal the Barbara Maglie. He was known mainly for two things, playing for both Dem Bums and the New York Gents at a time that was akin to being a spiritual advisor to both the Hatfield and the McCoys and being mean as a snake on the mound, reportedly saying he would brush back his own grandmother to get an edge. My experience with him was more benign. I was about 6 or 7 and went to have lunch with my dad. He skipped his usual chicken salad at the lunch counter at the drugstore in favor of a real restaurant, Monty's, I think, that had tablecloths and property glasses. We sat down and my dad asked me, do you know who's sitting over there? That's Sal Magley. I was a baseball fan, so I knew he was a really good starter who had a reputation for being nasty. Magley must have known we recognized him as one of the people at his table, came over and invited me to meet him. My dad, knowing that I was shy, urged me to go. Magley could not have been nicer. He invited my father and me to join his group and when I said no thank you, he shook my hand and told me to keep practicing and maybe I would be a pitcher one day. Years later, when my dad and I reminisced about that lunch, he reminded me that I did not wash the hand that Magaly shook for a week. It's a lovely story Andrew in LA It's a lovely story Dan in Hamburg, NY Just wanted to share with you and the crew that our office recently held what we deemed the Snack Olympics as a way to bond during our lunch break as we watched the opening ceremonies of the Winter Olympics. The rules were simple. Everyone had to pick a country and make some type of appetizer or small plate dish or dessert that represents that particular nation. We had a wonderful selection of food, including but not limited to fried plantains, Democratic Republic of the Congo, Baklava, Greece and a chocolate chip cookie cake, United States. My entry was potato varnicky, which is the Ukrainian version of a pierogi. I served them with diced onions that were pan fried and a side of sour cream that featured a mini Ukraine flag planted in the center of the dish. At the end of our feast, we voted as a group and awarded the following medals based on taste and plate presentation Gold boric cheese turnovers from Armenia, Silver Farmer's cheese pierogies, Poland and Bronze pork sausage rolls, Ireland. The point of all this is that it reminded me of the infamous Snackdown Call in segments that aired annually as part of the Tony Kornheiser show when you hosted your own wonderfully entertaining program on terrestrial radio that is classic content. Classic Tony Beeson I heard an amazing piece of Cincinnati trivia today. Don Gullett pitched at Crosley Field and Riverfront Stadium, was a pitching coach when the Reds moved to Great American Ballpark. Joe Knoxhall pitched at Crosley Field and also broadcast Red Games at Crosley Riverfront Stadium and Great American ballpark. However, Sir Paul McCartney outclasses all of them with the Beatles Wings and As a solo artist, Paul McCartney has performed in Cincinnati at the following sports Cincinnati Gardens in 1964, Crosley Field in 66, Riverfront in 76 and 90 Riverfront. That was Riverfront Coliseum, Riverfront Stadium, 93 and the Great American Ballpark in 2011. There's nobody like Paul McCarthy. No, there is not. Steven Benbrook Zions Gates Records in Seattle, Washington I am pleased to share that record stores are thriving both across the country and globally. This resurgence is largely driven by younger generation eagerly collecting music from all genres across various formats including vinyl, CD and even cassettes. Additionally, major labels have reissued a vast catalog of classic music and most popular Releases are now readily available in multiple formats. It's reached a point where it's harder not to find what you're looking for on vinyl. Since I am now 2 for 2 on emails read, I would like to propose that Zions Gate Record Records become the official record store of the show. Sure, it's fine.

[Jason Lock]

Sure.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Absolutely. Dan Pasicantilli, North End of Boston. I've been listening, watching to you for years and finally realized that the Connie in the background of your TV position is not Connie Francis. Keep hitting him long and straight. No, it's Connie Chong.

[Nick Poole (musician)]

Yes.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yes. And from Jim McManus, no relation to Gene McManus. Said, I can't believe you had Gene McManus on the show three days after Chuck Negron died and did not discuss her affection for Three Dog Night. So I will close in not the usual way. I'm going to tell you the most funny Sonny Jurgense story of all time. And it goes like this. Sonny and his wife Margot. This is 30 years ago, 35 years ago at least. Sonny and his wife Margo are in the palm and someone comes up to Sonny and Sonny recognizes him and they embrace and they chat for a while. And Margo says, who's that? And Sonny says, oh, I went to school with him. And Margo says, you went to school? He went to duke. He looks 30 years younger than you. And Sonny says, no. Drunk driver's school found a new bike tonight. Everyone is always to wear white.

[Jason Lock (continued, possibly a second analyst)]

The city never has witnessed the excitement stirred by these youngsters from Liverpool who call themselves the Beatles. Now tonight, you're going to twice be entertained by them right now and again in the second half of our show. Ladies and gentlemen, the Beatles.

[Nick Poole (musician)]

Nothing to give you but my arms, baby. I don't think we're fighting about the same things. I don't think you're gonna look at with anything. Love makes you lose yourself Or I just love can confuse. You. I see you getting closer, bab and anytime you're having me I see you getting closer, bab and anytime you having me Love makes you.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I.

[Nick Poole (musician)]

Flare out of town they enter I'm a jelly belly psycho Hershey Kisses infanty. Echo Parker Think she likes me but can it kill her now? Nicely Sugar Co with Fring Bikini Killer Nicely Sugar Co with FR With Bunk Ice cream Bunk ice cream Bump a little Pixie sticker Looks for dinner Grenadine at first and liquor Rebel girl on vinyls Quicker. Echo Park I think she likes me Bikini Killer Isolate she sugar coats right now can you kill a nice sleep, sugar coats. Oh.