Byron Katie: The Simple Practice That Ends Emotional Suffering

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Tony Robbins Channel

Episode Title: Byron Katie: The Simple Practice That Ends Emotional Suffering
Date: May 10, 2026
Host: Tony Robbins
Guests: Byron Katie, Sage Robbins

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Episode Overview

In this special episode, Tony Robbins introduces listeners to a deeply moving live session between his wife, Sage Robbins, and renowned author and spiritual teacher Byron Katie. Rather than a traditional interview, Sage publicly walks through "The Work," Byron Katie’s transformative process of self-inquiry, using a real and challenging situation involving her mother, who is living with dementia. The episode offers an intimate demonstration of how four simple questions can dissolve emotional suffering, especially concerning loved ones. The goal: to model how anyone can use inquiry to find freedom, presence, and compassion, even in difficult family situations.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Byron Katie’s Background and The Work

• Tony Robbins sets the context by recounting Katie's story of profound depression and subsequent awakening in 1986 (01:09–01:22).
• The Work is introduced: four questions plus a turnaround, offering a clear, repeatable path to end suffering by questioning stressful thoughts (01:24–05:05).
• Katie emphasizes:
  "All war belongs on paper. The war with the self, the way we see the world... it belongs on paper. War is war." – Byron Katie (05:13)

2. Applying The Work: Sage’s Experience with Her Mother

Situation: Sage describes her visit to her mother in a dementia care facility. Her mother becomes agitated upon recognizing her, and Sage feels she is the cause (07:00–09:08).

The Four Questions Applied (“Judge Your Neighbor” worksheet):

1. Is it true?

• "You terrified your mother. Is it true?" – Byron Katie (09:08)
  Sage responds yes, then explores her feelings of guilt, fear, and sadness.

2. Can you absolutely know it's true?

• Sage admits she cannot absolutely know she terrified her mother (12:42–13:48).

3. How do you react when you believe that thought?

• Sage describes physiological stress, withdrawal, and disconnect from her mom (10:03–10:58).
  • "I wasn't present with my mom... my face told that story." – Sage (10:27)

4. Who would you be without the thought?

• Byron Katie guides Sage to re-examine the moment, noticing her mother's smile and apparent well-being, which Sage missed in her anxiety (15:04–16:27).
  • "My mom is not terrified. She was smiling and I missed that." – Sage (16:01)

Turnarounds:

• Sage recognizes that it was she, not her mother, who was terrified and overwhelmed (16:31–17:06, 46:23–47:17).
• Lesson: The suffering came from Sage’s beliefs, not from her mother’s reality.
  • "It wasn't your mama... it was what you were thinking and believing about your mama." – Byron Katie (36:53)

3. Revisiting Core Beliefs About Caring

• Sage realizes her wish for her mother to "feel safe, loved, and secure" was more about her own need for reassurance than her mother's (19:49–20:22).
• Recognizes that her mother was already surrounded by love, community, and care (26:27–27:12).
• Katie affirms:
  "Some of us are taught to be... like being upset and concerned is love. But you are that presence when visiting your mom, not the mom you fear her to be." (27:19–27:55)

4. Insightful Moments and Quotes

• Compassion and Humanizing Care:

  • "Our mothers are no more or less than who we believe them to be when we're believing them to be that." – Byron Katie (52:13)

• Self-Reflection:

  • "I see so deeply how much I missed in that moment." – Sage (33:12)

• Letting Go of Control:

  • "To be happy, I need me to be okay with where my mom is and to feel the incredible love surrounding her." – Sage (42:09)

• Relief and Presence:

  • "It's freeing to sit with you and to really reflect and notice what I missed. I had so many stickies over my mama that day." – Sage (53:45)

5. Overarching Lessons

• Freedom from Suffering: The practice of self-inquiry can release loved ones (and ourselves) from the stories we project onto them.
• Staying Present: Much distress arises from being lost in past or future worries, instead of seeing what is real in the present (38:24–40:48).
• Universal Application: “The Work” is accessible to all via worksheets at thework.com, and regular free sessions (57:04).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "All fear belongs on paper, and it doesn't mean it's not valid." – Byron Katie (00:49)
• "I missed my mom's joy and her natural way of being." – Sage (19:00)
• "She's actually very clear and moving along... she was having ice cream when I walked up." – Sage (25:37)
• "Medicine can be this work. The shift in my physical [at age 83] is radical." – Byron Katie (35:50)
• "To give ourselves what we want to give to our mama, and to the people in your life." – Byron Katie (35:31)
• "Thank you, mama. Thank you, Katie." – Sage (53:06)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Topic/Section | |-----------|---------------| | 01:09–05:00 | Tony introduces Byron Katie and “The Work” process | | 07:00–09:08 | Sage presents her situation with her mom | | 09:08–19:00 | Byron Katie guides Sage through the four questions | | 19:49–27:12 | Exploring Sage’s beliefs about wanting her mother to feel safe/loved | | 33:12–42:24 | Seeing what Sage missed—turnarounds and relief | | 46:23–47:17 | Deep realization: suffering is self-created through belief | | 53:06–57:04 | Closing reflections, gratitude, and resources |

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Resources Mentioned

• The Work — Byron Katie’s foundational method, available for free at thework.com.
• Judge Your Neighbor Worksheet — Downloadable tool for inquiry.
• Recommended Books:
  • Loving What Is
  • A Thousand Names for Joy
  • I Need Your Love—Is That True?
  • A Mind at Home with Itself

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Tone & Atmosphere

The episode is gentle, intimate, vulnerable, and profoundly compassionate. Both Sage and Katie model self-inquiry with humor, openness, and care. Listeners are encouraged to witness their own stories and suffering with the same loving presence.

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Final Reflection

This episode offers a living demonstration of “The Work,” showing not just how suffering can end, but how love and connection can deepen through self-inquiry. Listeners are invited to apply these questions in their own lives—especially in complex or painful relationships—to discover freedom and presence beyond habitual beliefs.

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For more information and free resources, visit thework.com.

Transcript

[Sage Robbins]

She had red lipstick. She was wearing a beautiful necklace. And that girl, she's beautiful.

[Byron Katie]

Bring it.

[Sage Robbins]

I want my mama to feel safe, to feel loved, secure, and to simply know she's taken care of.

[Byron Katie]

Is that true?

[Sage Robbins]

No.

[Byron Katie]

Oh. What did you see?

[Sage Robbins]

What I was wanting. She already is.

[Byron Katie]

Yeah. So live the advice you want your mother to live, to be happy in

[Sage Robbins]

that situation, I need me to be okay, to be okay with where my mom is and to feel the incredible love surrounding her.

[Byron Katie]

It wasn't your mama. We learned that. It was what you were thinking and believing about your mama.

[Sage Robbins]

I am terrified. I'm sad, and I'm confused. And I'm the one overwhelmed. I see that so deeply right now.

[Byron Katie]

All fear belongs on paper, and it doesn't mean it's not valid.

[Sage Robbins]

What I was believing and thinking upon my mama, it was all me.

[Byron Katie]

Our mothers are no more or less than who we believe them to be when we're believing them to be that. She's like all of us. We're doing the best that we can, and we get by with a little help from our friends and family.

[Tony Robbins]

Hey, everybody, it's Tony Robbins. Welcome to the podcast. Listen, I'm really excited about today because we're joined by one of our dearest friends, a woman who is probably one of the more extraordinary human beings that we know. Byron.

[Byron Katie]

Katie.

[Tony Robbins]

If you don't know Katie as she's known, then today is going to be a very special treat. Now, I don't usually do this, but I want to give you a little context, because Katie's story is unlike most stories you've ever heard. This is a woman who went through a complete breakdown that turned into the most extraordinary breakthrough you can imagine. She spent close to a decade in depression that was so heavy she could barely leave her own bedroom. And then One morning in 1986, she woke up on the floor of an attic, and she just felt like every belief she'd ever known just simply fell away. That was her description. She said she didn't find a new belief. She just discovered that none of her old beliefs had any truth in them. And from that single moment, she went on to help millions of people in every corner of the world. Now, Sage and I have been friends with Katie and her husband, Stephen for more than 20 years now. And like us, Katie believes in the power of questions, the power of inquiry. I know you've heard me talk about so many times that questions are the answer. You want better answers, Ask better questions, and the only way you can hold on to a limiting Belief is if you don't question it, you just accept it. And she's developed a four question format that she calls the work. And it's powerful and it's incredibly effective. She's truly a force for good. She's a force for God. She's one of the most enlightened human beings walking the earth. And Sage has studied her work extensively for years, as have I. So for today, we're going to do something really special. Sage is going to do a session with Katie. We're not just going to interview, but she's actually going to do a process with Katie. It's a process that I think is going to really touch your heart because it's dealing with an issue that so many families are navigating today and one that I think you'll be moved by. And as Katie works with Sage and takes her through this process, you might find yourself going through the process as well and that'd be very powerful. So we're going to do a little different format today. And so without further ado, I'm going to step aside and I want you to meet two of the most brilliant, loving, two of my favorite people on earth. Of course, my wife, Sage Robbins, and the one and only Byron. Katie.

[Byron Katie]

There she is, my beautiful friend.

[Sage Robbins]

Hello. Hello. What a treat.

[Byron Katie]

Yeah, yeah. It just always been that way, hasn't

[Sage Robbins]

it Always been that way, Katie?

[Byron Katie]

Oh, our time together, I cherish it.

[Sage Robbins]

Likewise, beyond. Well, Katie, I, you know, reflecting on preparing for today, I was remembering when Tony and I first met you and we had invited you to Prague, Katie. And I remember witnessing you demonstrate the work like you'll do with us today. You know what's so extraordinary, Katie, is after that worksheet I became obsessed and I did worksheet after worksheet after worksheet. Tony has teased me often that we could literally wallpaper our home with, with all the worksheets that I've done. And it has been freedom for me. And it continues to free, it continues to awaken, it continues to release this simple, profound practice of these four questions and a turnaround. And I have just been so humbled by this practice, Katie. And it has literally changed and not changed. It doesn't even do it justice. Freed me, I mean, I would say liberation, inner liberation and freedom from such a level of density and those constant loops of stress. And by the way, it's not that I can't feel stressed, it's not that I don't feel overwhelmed, it's not that I don't feel sad. And if I, when I do, and as life turns up the volume, I simply put it back on paper. Yes.

[Byron Katie]

Yeah. I'd like to say all war belongs on paper. The war with the self, the war with the way we see the world, the war with anyone or anything. Yeah, it belongs on paper. War is war.

[Sage Robbins]

Yes.

[Byron Katie]

Or in the world.

[Sage Robbins]

And Katie, when you say war is war. So if people are saying, gosh, but there's war in the world, and you know, I, we want world peace, what would you say to that?

[Byron Katie]

I would say no two people live in the same world. To take care of our world the way you described. When you are heartbroken or angry, upset, confused, we can just move what we're thinking and believing onto that worksheet. And the, the worksheet, there's six questions on it and it guides, it guides what you're thinking and believing. It puts it in a place where it's separate unto itself. But we can't shift the way we see the world as long as we're believing the way we see the world. And self inquiry with these four questions and turnarounds. They, they, oh my goodness. I've gone from a, an agoraphobic just, just terrified human being to moving these four questions throughout the world. And what a privilege. What a privilege. It's, it's something I give because I, I received it and a lot of words now that who could understand it when the experience speaks for itself.

[Sage Robbins]

I, I agree. Katie. Well, shall we? I did a judge, your neighbor worksheet and I believe that they shared it with you.

[Byron Katie]

Uh huh. I have it here in front of me. They've.

[Sage Robbins]

Okay, beautiful. So number one is, so number one in this situation. Who saddened you and why? I'm saddened because my mom is terrified and I tend to trigger her.

[Byron Katie]

Okay. And the situation, describe it, the time and place so you can anchor there in that time and place with your mom.

[Sage Robbins]

Yes.

[Byron Katie]

That she's terrified and that you tend to trigger her.

[Sage Robbins]

Yes. My mama currently right now is living as a resident in a memory care facility. She has dementia. And on this particular day, I walked in and she didn't recognize me right away and she was sitting, having such a lovely time and chatting with other people in community and, and when my mama recognized me, it just. My mom got really extremely agitated and she got overwhelmed and all of a sudden just felt scared. But beyond scared. My presence felt terrifying to her.

[Byron Katie]

Yeah. Okay, so the two of you, are you standing?

[Sage Robbins]

When I was standing, yes. My mama was sitting at the table and were Other people still at the table. Other people were still at the table. And when my mom recognized it was me, she just really started to get agitated and started to have more like paranoid kind of behavior. And. And I was. Hence my feeling that I was triggering my mom. Yeah, I was triggering my mom.

[Byron Katie]

So you terrified your mother in that situation. Sage, anchor there just as you described it to all of us. And I invite everyone to. Now, you terrified your mother. Is it true? Now everyone sitting in this. Stay anchored the way. The way we're witnessing now in that situation, open your mind, look at your mother. You terrified your mother. Is it true?

[Sage Robbins]

Yes.

[Byron Katie]

Now notice, Sage, how you react when you think the thought in that situation.

[Sage Robbins]

Yes.

[Byron Katie]

You react when you think the thought. What happens?

[Sage Robbins]

My heart started to pound. I felt internal constriction. I was feeling. I was feeling terrified. If I think about it now,

[Byron Katie]

I.

[Sage Robbins]

I wasn't present with my mom. I was in my head, in my thoughts racing, seeing my mama and not being awake and aware to my own constriction or my own tension, which. This story, my face told that story.

[Byron Katie]

Yeah. And in that reaction, what images. And all of you. This takes real stillness to anchor there. And where Sage was describing.

[Sage Robbins]

Yes.

[Byron Katie]

What images appeared in that situation of the past and of the future that were running in your head?

[Sage Robbins]

I. I went future paced of, you know, them needing to possibly give my mama a shot to calm her down. And I referenced those moments from the past as well. I also recognized moments in time before my mom went into memory care where my mama was in a similar acute state and all of us or myself trying to navigate that with grace and seeing all those images of my mom crying so hysterically and being. Or being agitated and upset.

[Byron Katie]

Yeah. So those images of the past and the images of the future.

[Sage Robbins]

Yes.

[Byron Katie]

Even that nanosecond future that was going on in you. It has to be, you know, the words with the images when you. When you're thinking, when you're experiencing that and believing your mother is terrified.

[Sage Robbins]

Yes. I recognize that deeply now. And I see so obviously that I was terrified. It was me and I was feeling overwhelmed. And rather than naturally being present with my mom, I was in reaction in my own mind and not present with her.

[Byron Katie]

The images of that nanosecond future running in your head, there's your mother, and then there's the ego offering up what she's going to do in the next moment. And the next moment. The next moment.

[Sage Robbins]

Yes.

[Byron Katie]

You know, and so what is the cause of your. What is the cause of your Fear your mother. Look at her. They're not holding her down. They're not trying to. Just look at her. Look at you. Look at her. Just the way she is acting out whatever it is in reality without the thought. She's terrified.

[Sage Robbins]

Yeah. My mama is just being my beautiful mama and being her passionate, dynamic self.

[Byron Katie]

And what does that remind you of? Your dynamic, passionate self. We've heard. Like. Like mother, like. Like mother, like daughter. This is just in the fire here. Yeah. How beautiful. So my mom is terrified. Turned around. My mom is. How would you replace terrified? When you find an opposite. When you look and all of you, you have to, in this situation, look into your mother's face. No matter how she's reacting, just keep it real. And she's terrified. Turn around. She is.

[Sage Robbins]

My mom was expressing. My mom was.

[Byron Katie]

Drop the was and go to. My mom is. Stay present. Stay present.

[Sage Robbins]

My mom is expressing. My mom is dynamic and beautiful and she's. My mom is a force of nature. My mom is such love.

[Byron Katie]

What's the opposite of terrified? Let's just try. Not terrified.

[Sage Robbins]

Not terrified.

[Byron Katie]

Everything you. Everything you just. Yes, yes, but just. She's terrified. She is.

[Sage Robbins]

My mom is not terrified.

[Byron Katie]

So just try it on. It doesn't mean it's not. Just try it on. She's not terrified. Now look at her with that viewpoint without making nice or anything. Just. Maybe you see something else. She is not terrified.

[Sage Robbins]

Yeah. I see my mom accurately. I see my mama's face. She was just getting up and pushing her little rocker or her little walker and she. I'm even noticing that my mom was smiling. She was smiling and I missed that.

[Byron Katie]

There. There she is. There she is.

[Sage Robbins]

Yeah. She said, what are you doing, Bonnie Pearl?

[Byron Katie]

And. And what were you doing?

[Sage Robbins]

Being terrified. Busy being terrified

[Byron Katie]

and believing. She's terrified. You may have. Knowing you tried to do anything you could to support her and watch you. She is terrified. Turned around. She is.

[Sage Robbins]

My mom was present.

[Byron Katie]

Yeah, Present, present. She got up. She left her fellows.

[Sage Robbins]

She did.

[Byron Katie]

And. And you. As I recall, she was. She was involved there.

[Sage Robbins]

She was involved. And she said, what are you doing here?

[Byron Katie]

So now that you are more present than we're able to be when we're terrified that our mother is terrified. And what are you doing there now? Just silence. And silence. Answer her question honestly, which is where you're left when you're not believing. She's terrified.

[Sage Robbins]

I came to see you, Mom.

[Byron Katie]

Yeah.

[Sage Robbins]

And wanted to come and say hello and to hold your hand and to be with you.

[Byron Katie]

Yeah. That's the Answer. And maybe she'll hold your hand, maybe she won't. He's got a little, what, dementia running.

[Sage Robbins]

Yes.

[Byron Katie]

He recognized you.

[Sage Robbins]

She did. I see that.

[Byron Katie]

Yeah. So just. Let's just be with that. And it's good to know the people we love. But when we are. When we are frightened, terrified, or.

[Sage Robbins]

Yes.

[Byron Katie]

Oh, my. The ego takes us over and it's. It's. Not right, not wrong, just. Just how it is until we wake up to the reality of life. Just the way you're doing.

[Sage Robbins]

I see it completely differently. In this moment. I actually see, like I said, I see my mom's joy and her natural way of being. And I missed that. I missed that. I.

[Byron Katie]

And there she is.

[Sage Robbins]

Yeah.

[Byron Katie]

So she was actually joyful.

[Sage Robbins]

My mom had a smile, as you

[Byron Katie]

look at a smile.

[Sage Robbins]

Yes.

[Byron Katie]

Yeah. Real, real. There she is. So. You want your mama in that situation? Shall we move there to number two?

[Sage Robbins]

Yes, please.

[Byron Katie]

You want your mama to feel loved, safe and secure. Is it true? Stay anchored there. Look at the way you approached her when you were fearful.

[Sage Robbins]

Yes.

[Byron Katie]

In that situation, you wanted your mama to feel loved, safe and secure. Is it true?

[Sage Robbins]

No.

[Byron Katie]

My, my, no.

[Sage Robbins]

When I'm.

[Byron Katie]

So. How do you react when you believe the thought? You want your mama to feel loved, safe and secure, and you're terrified in your word, in her. The way you were seen then staying anchored there. How do you react when you think the thought. I want my mama to feel loved, safe and secure.

[Sage Robbins]

I was quick in my. I was reactive. I wasn't present with my mom. I was feeling constricted and feeling tight

[Byron Katie]

and feeling your mother when you were feeling that way, notice. Just witness. You want her to feel safe, loved and secure, and you're terrified.

[Sage Robbins]

I. I took a step back. I took a step back. Rather than joining my mom and connecting

[Byron Katie]

with my mom, were you thinking that that would. Would make her safer or. Or did you feel, like, threatened that she was threatened and it was your fault? I mean, I'm just. You know, just look around. I want her to feel safe, loved and secure, and you're seeing her as terrified. How do you react? How do you treat her? How do you treat yourself in that situation? Just witness it.

[Sage Robbins]

I. I recognize. I was. I. Like I said, I stepped back away from my mom. I started talking at my mom rather than with my mom. I was avoiding. I was avoiding. I was avoiding my mom. I. I didn't sit down to connect with her at the table. I was standing up and away from her. And I can see now how that would make her feel unsafe and not feel secure or my loved or that she's loved by me because I was more. I was more shifty. I was shifty in my not really knowing what to do, if I'm honest. Yes.

[Byron Katie]

Thank you. Now. Now be back on you. You and your mother are standing there and you want her to feel loved, safe and secure. Who would you be without the thought. I want my mama to feel loved, safe and secure. Who would you do without putting a want on her? You see your mother not to change your mother. And you know, we as loving caretakers.

[Sage Robbins]

Yes.

[Byron Katie]

There's so much we can be asleep to sometimes.

[Sage Robbins]

Yes.

[Byron Katie]

And in our reaction is. Is she's you. You're believing she's terrified and you want her to feel safe, secure and to simply know that she is taken care of.

[Sage Robbins]

Yes.

[Byron Katie]

Now just be with your mother. She doesn't even have to know that you care or don't care. Be with your mama.

[Sage Robbins]

I. I see that so deeply right now.

[Byron Katie]

Just the way she is.

[Sage Robbins]

Yeah.

[Byron Katie]

Thought I want her to feel loved. It implies that she's not already.

[Sage Robbins]

True.

[Byron Katie]

And she's saying that she is. But we. We don't know when we're terrified ourselves.

[Sage Robbins]

True. I. I see my mama pushing her stroller, saying to me, what are you doing? Are you going to come me? Are you going to come with me?

[Byron Katie]

Well, answer her question. Just. Just inside of you, just hear her questions. Are you gonna, you know, you want her to feel safe and secure? She's saying, are you coming?

[Sage Robbins]

Yes, mom.

[Byron Katie]

What a trip. Never too late. Just go where your mom.

[Sage Robbins]

Just go with my mama.

[Byron Katie]

You want her. Jeez, look how well she's doing. She can still.

[Sage Robbins]

She can still walk.

[Byron Katie]

And she knows to get her walker.

[Sage Robbins]

Yes, true.

[Byron Katie]

And she knows who you are. And she's obviously not opposed to that. She says, follow me. Come with me.

[Sage Robbins]

She's. She's actually very clear. She's actually very clear and moving along, you know, just moving along. She was.

[Byron Katie]

And she has friends.

[Sage Robbins]

Yes. Community.

[Byron Katie]

Community.

[Sage Robbins]

Community. And she was really enjoying. She was having ice cream when I walked up and was talking to the lady sitting next to her. Really enjoying her company.

[Byron Katie]

Now does she. Does she look safe to you? I mean, out of. Out of her. Just watching her, watching her experience does. I mean, she's moving right through, right through, right through life.

[Sage Robbins]

Very incredibly safe and loved.

[Byron Katie]

You're there. So she is.

[Sage Robbins]

Yes.

[Byron Katie]

And they didn't kick her out of the. Away from the table. She opted to leave to be with her daughter. And she is waiting for You. Are you coming?

[Sage Robbins]

True. True. And I. And I see Katie. How. You know, she's saying hello and to passerbys and she has a. Just beautiful. She has a beautiful caregiver that was with her at the time, that was rubbing her back and. Right.

[Byron Katie]

With Safe and secure.

[Sage Robbins]

Safe and secure. And loved

[Byron Katie]

by you for sure. You know, it's. It. It's. It's as though some. Some of us are taught to be. Like being upset and concerned is love.

[Sage Robbins]

Yes.

[Byron Katie]

But there's. But it's. I can't do love. It's like. Like you, Sage. Like what we're witnessing. It's like you are that. That presence and you're visiting your mom, not the mom of your. That you fear her to be.

[Sage Robbins]

Yes. I. I also recognize she was wearing. She had red lipstick and she was wearing a beautiful necklace. And that girl. She's beautiful.

[Byron Katie]

Bring it. Wow. Well,

[Sage Robbins]

it's beautiful.

[Byron Katie]

Well, you know, it's sitting in self inquiry with you. It's. It's as though we. We all get to meet your mother with you at the same time. And that's a privilege.

[Sage Robbins]

Thank you.

[Byron Katie]

Right. Number two in that situation, what do you want your mother to think, say, feel, or do.

[Sage Robbins]

I want? Yes. I want my mama to feel safe, to feel loved, secure, and to simply know she's taken care of.

[Byron Katie]

Okay. Is that true?

[Sage Robbins]

No.

[Byron Katie]

Oh. What did you see?

[Sage Robbins]

What I see is what I was wanting. She already is.

[Byron Katie]

Yeah. Yeah. No need. No need for you to.

[Sage Robbins]

No.

[Byron Katie]

Wow. So you got what you wanted. Just sitting in your chair now. That's very comforting.

[Sage Robbins]

Yes.

[Byron Katie]

You know, from here, as I sit in my chair with you,

[Sage Robbins]

just noticing. Noticing all that I missed. All that I missed when I believed she was terrified and believing that I wanted her to feel safe and secure and not connecting to the truth that my mama is safe and secure in that moment, in that situation.

[Byron Katie]

So now. Just. Just experiencing. Just experience yourself there now when she says, are you coming? And I'll read what you wrote for two.

[Sage Robbins]

Okay.

[Byron Katie]

And just live it. I want me to feel loved by my mama. With my mama. And secure. And to simply know that she is taken care of. And to simply know that I am taking care of. Taken care of. So you can have that in common.

[Sage Robbins]

Truth.

[Byron Katie]

So take. Take that trip, honey. Just. Are you coming? Just that. Yes. Of you. Your mother is not gonna fall apart. Look at her. Secure and capable.

[Sage Robbins]

Capable.

[Byron Katie]

And that comes from when you know you're being taken care of. She's. Yes,

[Sage Robbins]

I see that. I. I really. I see my beautiful Mama just walking down that hallway with her walker and saying hello to the people. And she's perfectly safe and loved and

[Byron Katie]

secure due to you and Tony and Mary, people that love her and have made that possible for her to live in a safe community. And, yes, the care that's. That's full on. Now all we need to do is catch up with your mama.

[Sage Robbins]

Hence why I'm here.

[Byron Katie]

You can. Yeah, me too. Okay, so to be happy, your mama needs to take her medication so she won't be frightened and agitated. Your mama needs to take her medication, and that's why it's important. It keeps it so she won't be frightened or agitated. Yes. Now look at your mama.

[Sage Robbins]

Look at.

[Byron Katie]

She needs to take her medication in that situation. Is it true?

[Sage Robbins]

No, she doesn't. No. She's perfectly okay. And my mama is living her life and is actually very, Very natural and very secure and everything you wanted. Everything I wanted in that moment.

[Byron Katie]

Yeah.

[Sage Robbins]

Yes, everything I wanted. And I see how much I missed in that situation.

[Byron Katie]

Mm. So my mama needs to take her medication. My mama turned around. My mama doesn't need to take her medication in that situation. They have it all timed. Yes, they're prescribed. She's in that environment. They. That's. That's it. That's it.

[Sage Robbins]

My mama.

[Byron Katie]

Does it need to take. Whether they do it on time or not, you're there to check it all out.

[Sage Robbins]

Yes. Yes, I see that. I really see that.

[Byron Katie]

Good on you, honey. Do you see another turnaround to be happy? I need.

[Sage Robbins]

I need. I need me to take. I need me to take my medication.

[Byron Katie]

Yeah. So I. I need me to take my medication as prescribed by a. By a doctor that you checked out.

[Sage Robbins]

Well, I need me to take my medication so I won't be so frightened and agitated.

[Byron Katie]

Now, you can go to places where maybe Tony or Mary or something, say, you know, your cough is getting worse. Hey, you know, here's the cough drop. Or take your medication and you go. That's really funny. I'm okay. So live the advice you want your mother to live. At least be open to it. Yes. And. And, Sage, you need more rest. You know, just. If someone should, then, I mean, look how you run. They could be right if they ever suggest that.

[Sage Robbins]

Yes.

[Byron Katie]

To give ourselves what we want to give to our mom, to your mama, and to the people in your life.

[Sage Robbins]

And I also see, Katie, another turnaround is the medication

[Byron Katie]

can be this work the shift in. I'll just speak for myself because I hear it so often anyway from others, but the Shift in my physical at 83. The shift in my physical is. It's radical and there's no promise there. But when the mind is free, the body is. The mind becomes less, becomes wiser.

[Sage Robbins]

Yeah, I see that.

[Byron Katie]

Medicine. And the other way is. Is, you know, what you wrote, and it's stressful.

[Sage Robbins]

Yes.

[Byron Katie]

And sometimes we see that as love. I'm just worried about my mama, you know, And. And like. Like, that's love. And we can worry about them, but knowing you as I do, you take care of it really well. You know your mama.

[Sage Robbins]

Yes.

[Byron Katie]

And her needs, that's. That's maximum.

[Sage Robbins]

Yes.

[Byron Katie]

Professional educated, professional advice to. To. To ponder again and make the wisest decisions that you can to be happy. You need your mother to feel the incredible love surrounding her. Is it true?

[Sage Robbins]

I know it sounds absurd now. No, it's not true. No. They.

[Byron Katie]

They want her back at the table, and there. Her daughter's there to visit her and. And how do you react? What happens to you when you think the thought you want her to feel the incredible love surrounding her and you're there to surround her with love even though you're. What was the word? Terrified.

[Sage Robbins]

Yes.

[Byron Katie]

Yeah.

[Sage Robbins]

Well, what I recognize is I'm not. I'm not loving in that moment. I'm. I'm busy being terrified. I'm busy having my shoulds and shouldn't for my mama rather than being intimately connected to my mom, rather than surrounding her so, you know, with love and that natural way of being.

[Byron Katie]

Yeah, the natural way because you surround her with the way in those situations, like all of us, the way we think it's supposed to look and what we. What the words are. But here you are, present. Present every. I haven't heard one thing as far as your action that was not just loving and incredible love and.

[Sage Robbins]

And I see so deeply, Katie, how she is utterly okay with. When I walked in, my mama was 100% utterly okay with where she is.

[Byron Katie]

And you know, honey, just to interrupt for a moment.

[Sage Robbins]

Yes.

[Byron Katie]

It's. You might just go visit her and just sit in a. In a place there where you can just see your mom's life. Just check in with her life with that beautiful, open mind of yours.

[Sage Robbins]

Yes.

[Byron Katie]

And watch how she deals with everything and watch to. To witness that. That amazing mother of yours. You know, like all of us, she's. Like all of us, we're doing the best that we can, and we get by with a little help from our friends and family and caretakers. So let's see if you live this Turner I want me to feel the incredible love surrounding my mother in that situation. So just.

[Sage Robbins]

That's true.

[Byron Katie]

Look at her. She's got French and Get up. She recognizes you. She knows her walker. She wants to know if you're coming. They're. They're assisting her.

[Sage Robbins]

Beautiful.

[Byron Katie]

Everything you wanted for her under those circumstances.

[Sage Robbins]

My mama's. I see how perfectly okay she is.

[Byron Katie]

When you consider what she's going through, which we have no idea.

[Sage Robbins]

Yes.

[Byron Katie]

She's. She's making the. She's. She's got this. In that situation.

[Sage Robbins]

She truly does.

[Byron Katie]

You can know with your own eyes.

[Sage Robbins]

She's incredibly loved

[Byron Katie]

and cared for. It's back there on your. Your wants. You want her to. To feel loved, safe and secure. She's Even in. You know, this keeps coming to me. It's. But it's so sweet. She recognizes you and she says, are you coming? Extraordinary. That laughter of yours, you know, I see that happening easily. You go, yeah, Mom. Yes, Mom, I'm right behind you. I love you. Marvel at you. You've got great digs here.

[Sage Robbins]

True.

[Byron Katie]

Oh, my. Okay, sweetie, let's look at. Let's look at. To be happy in that situation, I need me to be. And read for.

[Sage Robbins]

To be happy in that situation, I need me.

[Byron Katie]

Okay.

[Sage Robbins]

To be okay with where my mom is. And to feel the incredible love surrounding her.

[Byron Katie]

It's never too late. And here you are.

[Sage Robbins]

That's much more true. That's much more true. It's beautiful.

[Byron Katie]

Oh, honey, you are beautiful.

[Sage Robbins]

Thank you.

[Byron Katie]

My. I love. I love taking this trip with you, experiencing it with you. I know that I am. I'm right in there with your mother. I can see the images. I think we all can see the images of you with her. And I can see her so clearly. I've never met her. See. On a walk, I can see she's just doing well.

[Sage Robbins]

Yes.

[Byron Katie]

I haven't heard one thing from you. Legitimate. A legitimate reason to believe she's not doing well, other than she has dementia. And she's doing well in that situation.

[Sage Robbins]

True.

[Byron Katie]

I want your. Your mama to do well, too. She sets a great example for love. Her.

[Sage Robbins]

True. She really has.

[Byron Katie]

Honey, let's look at five, okay. And we did terrified. Your mother is sad, so look closely. Be there now. Your mother is sad. Is it true?

[Sage Robbins]

No. In that situation, my mama was not sad.

[Byron Katie]

She's in pain. In that situation. Is it true? Can you really know that? It's true. She's in pain. Look closely.

[Sage Robbins]

In that situation, in that moment, I can't really know that it's true that my mom is in pain. I'm future pacing or past tense or future pacing images. But in that moment, Katie.

[Byron Katie]

No, no, really, we have the. The mother of the past and future. But it's just fascinating to meet her mother in any time and place when we are present with them by some grace. She's still alive. You still have her. But those of you that have lost your parents, it's never too late. They live in you just the way we. That in this situation, mother lived in you, the mother as you believed her to be. So she is overwhelmed. Is it true in that situation?

[Sage Robbins]

No, my mom is not overwhelmed in that situation.

[Byron Katie]

She's in a state of misunderstanding. She's in a. She's in this state. She is in a state that doesn't understand how loved she truly is.

[Sage Robbins]

It sounds absurd right now as you read. Really? Sounds absurd as I'm hearing it back?

[Byron Katie]

Yeah.

[Sage Robbins]

Yeah.

[Byron Katie]

In that situation, I am terrified, sad. And read number five, where you have my mama put you on it in that. And. And then just track it to see what is valid and what is kind of valid and what is not valid, as you notice and as you. As you read it. And that's it.

[Sage Robbins]

In that situation, I'm terrified.

[Byron Katie]

And what was the cause of your. Your terror? It wasn't your mama. We learned that it was what you were thinking and believing about your mama.

[Sage Robbins]

It's what I was believing. That my mom was terrified. I am terrified. And I'm sad and I'm confused,

[Byron Katie]

And

[Sage Robbins]

I'm the one overwhelmed. And in pain. And in this state, I don't. I don't understand how loved I am

[Byron Katie]

by her.

[Sage Robbins]

By her. What on earth?

[Byron Katie]

She saw you. She got up, she said, are you coming? And yeah. How loved I truly am.

[Sage Robbins]

I loved. I truly am.

[Byron Katie]

She had options there. She could. She could pretend dementia. Yes. In that situation, she alerted True. He really didn't want to see you. She could pretend True. She. She. She saw you. She got up. She invited you. Are you coming?

[Sage Robbins]

She did.

[Byron Katie]

Okay, sweetie, let's look at six and number six. What is it you don't ever want to experience in that situation again?

[Sage Robbins]

I don't ever want my mama to feel terrified, sad, confused, overwhelmed, in pain and in this state, not understanding how truly loved she is.

[Byron Katie]

So she has dementia. She doesn't understand how truly loved she is. Look at her. You know, when we really love some, we. We most of the time maybe take them for granted. Yes. And she recognized you?

[Sage Robbins]

She did. Very much so.

[Byron Katie]

And she got up from the table she invited you to.

[Sage Robbins]

She did. Are you coming?

[Byron Katie]

Are you coming?

[Sage Robbins]

What are you doing? Are you coming?

[Byron Katie]

Oh, honey. She wants to know how you're doing. Did you say, I'm terrified, Mom. Terrifying Mama?

[Sage Robbins]

I didn't, but I'm sure my face was. This was probably telling the story. Yeah.

[Byron Katie]

Oh, honey. So I'm willing to. On number six, we turn it around. Number six is different. I'm willing to. In that situation, when I think about it again, or my next trip there, anytime I'm worried about her. Yeah, willing to.

[Sage Robbins]

I'm willing to feel like. Feel like my presence is hurting her.

[Byron Katie]

And I look forward to.

[Sage Robbins]

And I look forward to feeling like my presence is hurting her, terrifying her.

[Byron Katie]

Did she look terrified at seeing you? It's important. Look back. When she looked at you, did she look terrified?

[Sage Robbins]

No, Katie, No. Surprised. But in that situation, no, My mama was not terrified.

[Byron Katie]

Yeah.

[Sage Robbins]

It's crazy how much we can miss

[Byron Katie]

and it's crazy all of the, you know, the toll it takes on us. Physically, yes. Emotionally, mentally, you know, fear. All fear belongs on paper. Yes. So we can move it from our head and it doesn't mean it's not valid to authentically move it from our head to that judge your neighbor worksheet.

[Sage Robbins]

Yes.

[Byron Katie]

And then to remember you when we're sitting in that worksheet, what patience and authenticity and integrity look like. And stillness, your ability to get still and imagine yourself there now and look at the cause of your fear or discontent, whatever it was, in this case. Terrified. Yeah.

[Sage Robbins]

It's what I was believing and thinking upon my mama in that situation. Believing. My mama was terrified. And I really see going through this with you right now. It was all me.

[Byron Katie]

Yeah. Yeah. Your mother. Our mothers are no more or less than who we believe them to be when we're believing them to be that. Honey, I love our time together.

[Sage Robbins]

Me too.

[Byron Katie]

Forthcomingness, your courage to just. It's like taking off all your clothes in front of the world. And just the thing we hide is, you know, what we're thinking and believing, and here it is. And it creates the opposite. It invites intimacy kind of in some intimacy that so many of us long for. Self love. Self love. Thank you, mama.

[Sage Robbins]

Thank you, mama. Thank you, katie.

[Byron Katie]

Yeah. It's just so sweet to sit with you, Sage. You know, the. The work takes a very open mind. The work, meaning self inquiry, takes a very open mind. And you don't just model that. You show real deal how. It's just, again, like taking off all your clothes and just burying your soul.

[Sage Robbins]

It's freeing. It's freeing to sit with you and to really reflect and to notice what I missed. And I missed so much believing that thought and putting all of my, as you call them, stickies. I had so many stickies over my mama that day, in that moment, in that situation.

[Byron Katie]

And those stickies are the images of past, future, past, future. They're. They're about anything other than now. And that's asleepness and waking up to reality as simple as you to be. You know, it's. It's a. It's a lot of worksheets. It's a. It's a practice and stillness until we have it in our walking, present, living life. We're just awake as. As you like. You were like, waking up in these questions and turnarounds. It's. It's a way of life. It's a way of living with our mothers and the people we love in the world.

[Sage Robbins]

My mama has so beautifully brought me back to the active practice, Katie, of. Well, the privilege of sitting with you right now. If it wasn't for my mama, we wouldn't be sharing this moment and.

[Byron Katie]

Oh, thank you, mama.

[Sage Robbins]

Thanks, mama. I really am. I'm so grateful.

[Byron Katie]

She's amazing.

[Sage Robbins]

Truly, truly, Katie. And I'm so grateful to be able to not only have this conversation, but to sit in the work with you, Katie. And because it's a continual unraveling, I, I really, as I sit with my mama in this moment, I. I'm excited for the next time that I get to be with my mom.

[Byron Katie]

Isn't it exciting? I've had that thought several times. I'd love to see you with your mom following

[Sage Robbins]

me too.

[Byron Katie]

Yeah. These worksheets wake us up. Life repeats itself and we see it differently every time. And it becomes just like an extraordinary. Just in awe of just looking at the soap bubbles on a dish or coffee cup as you're washing it. It's just. It's just like this world just becomes just bright and it's. It's in clear. Yeah. Thank you, sweetie.

[Sage Robbins]

And thank you, Katie. Thank you, Katie.

[Byron Katie]

And thank. Thanks to both you and Tony and Mary all the years for inviting me in. And that's. That's a privilege and love you guys.

[Sage Robbins]

I love you as well, Katie. And for those of you who feel spoken to and want to find Katie and the work, you can go to thework.com and you can download a simple judge your neighbor worksheet like what we walk through today. And Katie, you continue to do the work. I believe it's A couple times a week.

[Byron Katie]

Yes. Every Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday, 9 o' clock Pacific time. I just love that adventure so much. What a privilege we hold, honey.

[Sage Robbins]

It's been a gift, Katie, and you have, well, another out in the world who will continue to be an ambassador for the gift and the freedom that comes when we sit with a willingness with ourselves and to deeply inquire. And I am eternally grateful. Katie, your life, your presence, the work has blessed me beyond words that I have to convey. And I love you from the deepest part of my being. And thank you. Thank you.

[Byron Katie]

Thank you dears.

[Sage Robbins]

Thank you for your time. Thank you. Love to you, Katie.

[Tony Robbins]

Well, I hope you were as moved by that as we are. I want to thank my wife for her absolute vulnerability. I know that must have touched you as it touches all of us. And I think you can see the power of this work. And I hope that you'll realize that just with a simple four questions you can start to free yourself from any anything that in the past has made you suffer. And to remember that some of the principles that she's here, that suffering only exists in the past or the future, not in this moment. So those are just a few to remind you of. And I hope this is an experience that deeply touched your heart and soul. And I hope you'll check out some of Katie's work. She's written many books loving what is a thousand names for joy I need you'd love is that true And a mind at home with itself. You can also get more information by going to her website, thework.com thank you for joining us once again for the Tony Robbins podcast. Sending you love and blessings to you and all those you love.

[Byron Katie]

Whatever will be will be. Your future is not mine to see.

[Sage Robbins]

Case it all.