Part 3: Do This to Forgive What You Can't Forget with Sage Robbins & Mary B

Summary

The Tony Robbins Podcast

Episode Summary: Part 3 – "Do This to Forgive What You Can't Forget" with Sage Robbins & Mary B (September 16, 2024)

Overview

In this heartfelt episode, Sage Robbins and Mary B dive deep into the power and practice of forgiveness. Drawing from personal stories, audience questions, and renowned teachings, they explore why forgiveness is vital for emotional freedom and lasting growth. The conversation is practical, spiritual, and emotionally resonant, providing tools and reflections for anyone struggling to forgive themselves or others—especially those lingering hurts that feel unforgettable.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Why Forgive?

• Universality of Forgiveness: Sage lists various reasons people forgive, emphasizing personal freedom, interconnectedness, and release from suffering ([00:25]):
  • "We forgive because you are me. We forgive because it sets us free... We forgive when we recognize we are all human and we all miss."
• Forgiveness as Self-Compassion:
  • "I forgive because it hurts when I don’t. I suffer when I don’t." ([01:48])
• Energetic Cost of Resentment:
  • Holding onto a grudge consumes "units of energy" that could otherwise fuel creativity and joy ([03:10]):
    • "You’re holding this up, this identity... and I’m using energy to keep this posture of righteousness..."
  • Releasing resentment frees up mental and emotional bandwidth for more productive, fulfilling pursuits ([04:14]).

The Architecture of Unforgiveness

• Mental Habits and Righteousness:
  • Sage describes how the mind "builds architecture" around initial hurts, creating stories that reinforce suffering ([07:59]):
    • "Mind builds what I call a support around it and that creates even more clouded vision, confusion."
• Recognizing Patterns:
  • They encourage listeners to recognize self-righteous patterns and reflect on shared human fallibility ([04:45]).

Breaking the Chains: The Role of Forgiveness in Personal Freedom

• Notable Quote from Desmond Tutu ("The Book of Forgiving"):
  • "Without forgiveness, we remain tethered to the person who harmed us... until we can forgive... that person holds the keys to our happiness." ([06:26])
• Returning the Keys to Yourself:
  • By forgiving, you reclaim your internal peace and autonomy ([06:26]-[07:24]).

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Memorable Moments & Quotes

The Practice of Forgiveness

• Forgiving in Your Heart vs. Face to Face ([09:15]):

  • Audience Q&A: Lauren asks if forgiveness "counts" if it’s only internal.
  • Sage responds:
    • "Absolutely ... We all have people that have passed. Or maybe you have somebody that 20 years ago you had a circumstance that was hurtful or painful...I'll pray this simple prayer: Spirit in me connects to the spirit in you. I release you now. I forgive you. I bless you. Thank you." ([09:28])

• Ancestral Clearing:

  • Forgiveness and healing can extend not just to people in our lives, but to ancestors and the generational patterns they’ve passed down. Mary B touches on the power of ho’oponopono for ancestral healing ([11:05]).

Heartfelt Forgiveness vs. “Lip Service”

• How do I move forgiveness from my head to my heart? (Neeraj’s question, [12:07]):
  • "If I just have discord and I’m like, ‘Hey, sorry about that,’ and I walk out... That’s lip service. It’s insincere... But when forgiveness comes from compassion, because we recognize—‘I’ve been blind too, me too’... that’s different." ([12:19])
  • Mary B adds: “Every situation is just a house of mirrors.” ([14:48])

Forgiving Parents, Healing Childhood

• Do we have to forgive our parents for the way they treated us? (Demetra’s question, [15:24]):
  • "We don’t have to do anything... I’d check in and ask, what does that feel like to not forgive your parents? ... You can just continue to do your self reflection ... It doesn’t have to be that dramatic... It’s kinder and saner when I do." ([15:39])

Forgiveness and Boundaries: Can you forgive and still leave?

• If I forgive, do I have to stay in the relationship? (Paola’s question, [17:08]):
  • "I think you can. Why not forgive? Because it frees you ... and then from that place ... you can decide whether staying is true for you or not. But then you’re not leaving because you’re pissed ... you’re leaving because it’s true in your heart that it’s just time. That’s so kind. That’s so beautiful." ([17:30])
  • Sage shares a personal story from her first marriage, highlighting the distinction between leaving from “emotionality and drama” versus clarity and peace ([18:52]).

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Audience Q&A Highlights with Timestamps

1. Forgiveness in the Heart vs. Face to Face ([09:15 - 11:05])

• Lauren asks if forgiving internally is enough. Sage emphasizes the power of internal forgiveness and shares simple prayers and practices for emotional release.

2. How to Feel Real Forgiveness, Not Just Talk About It ([12:07 - 15:05])

• Neeraj’s question leads to a discussion of sincere versus superficial forgiveness, the role of self-reflection, and the importance of going first in difficult moments.

3. Do We Have to Forgive Our Parents? ([15:24 - 17:05])

• Demetra’s query sparks reflection on autonomy in forgiveness and the healing that comes from gentle self-inquiry rather than obligation.

4. Does Forgiving Mean I Have to Stay? ([17:08 - 20:54])

• Paola’s question addresses forgiveness, boundaries, and the wisdom of acting from clear-hearted alignment rather than reactivity. Sage’s personal story illuminates the journey to grace and understanding in closing chapters.

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Practical Tools & Practices

• Unit-of-Energy Framework: Recognize how holding onto grudges drains your energy and intentionally redirect those units.
• Simple Prayers & Blessings: Use statements like: “Spirit in me connects to the spirit in you. I release you now. I forgive you. I bless you. Thank you.” ([09:28])
• Ancestral Forgiveness: Apply ho’oponopono or blessing rituals across generations ([11:05]).
• Self-Inquiry & Reflection: Frequently ask, “How do I feel when I hold onto this offence? How does it affect my energy, my mood, my relationships?”
• Practicing Compassionate Communication: When apologizing or forgiving, be specific, vulnerable, and open to reset, rather than going through the motions.

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Notable Quotes

• Sage Robbins:
  • “We forgive because it sets us free. We forgive because we are forgiven. We forgive because we choose to wake up from the nightmare.” ([00:25])
  • “As I let you off the hook, I let me off the hook. As I let myself off the hook, I let you off the hook.” ([10:24])
  • "It's kinder and saner when I do [forgive].” ([15:39])
  • “Why not forgive? Because it frees you ... and then you can decide whether staying is true for you or not. But then you’re not leaving because you’re pissed...” ([17:30])
• Mary B:
  • “One thing that I’ve learned from you and Tony: you’ll say like, the units of energy that that person is... you’re giving to that person or you’re giving away.... you’re holding this up, this identity...” ([03:10])
  • “Every situation is just a house of mirrors.” ([14:48])

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Closing Thoughts

Sage and Mary invite listeners to gently examine the places in their life where forgiveness is needed, for their own hearts if nothing else. They stress that forgiveness is ultimately a personal freedom, not an obligation, and that letting go can be done silently, internally, or as a generous offering in relationship.

"Create some space, free up some units of energy. So if there’s someone you need to reach out to, make a call, write a letter… know that it doesn’t have to be a phone call. This can be in the silence, in the interior of your own mind and heart. This can be in your meditation. This can be through prayer." ([21:07])

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This episode is rich with insight, compassionate self-reflection, and actionable wisdom for anyone struggling to let go of past wounds.

Transcript

[A]

Hi, thanks for listening to the Tony Robbins podcast. This is just a quick note about this episode in case you'd rather watch and see the video of this conversation. And that's [e-mail] tonyrobbinslive if you'd like to listen, you're in the right place.

[B]

So if we look at why we're not forgiving, it's just important why we look at how or why we do forgive. So once again, just connect yourself because you know, we all have our own path, our own inner wisdom. I think there's some universality, so I'm offering up some and you can see which ones land for you. We forgive because you are me. We forgive because it sets us free. I didn't mean for that to rhyme. We forgive when we recognize we are all human and we all miss. We forgive when we accept each other just as we are. But just to be. To accept in that state place, it's like, okay, do you know what? Hey, you give grace. It's compassionate. We forgive because we are forgiven. We forgive because we choose to wake up from the nightmare. We forgive by recognizing we're all doing the best we can. We forgive because it's a way of coming home. We forgive because, well, I forgive because it feels, it's completely selfish. It feels like an internal release, you know, that constriction, it's like, oh, you know, it's a carrying of energy. We forgive because it hurts. I forgive because it hurts when I don't. And the same one, it's I forgive because I suffer when I don't. And you know, we were mentioning about innocence earlier, but it's, it's really a return and a recognition of our own and others innocence and the goodness that's underneath all the conditioned layers. Yes, we forgive when there's willingness to self reflect and see ourselves and to recognize that we're all connected in this human experience. And we've all, if you're alive, we've had grace extended to us. And sometimes in the grit of life or the pain of life, we forget that. That's a beautiful notion.

[A]

Those are all. That's a really gorgeous list that you put together.

[B]

And so you can ask yourself, you know, when do you not forgive or when do you forgive? Because there's, we all have unconscious competence of why we do what we do and what I really recognize when I look back on my lifetimes, when I haven't forgave, it's usually in the righteousness or the, you know, so and so wronged me and then I'm usually, you know, I was trouble talking or talking to somebody or spreading to justify your.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Justification of righteousness. You know, it feels yuck. It feels yuck inside to hold that energy. It's exhausting.

[A]

One thing that I've learned from you and Tony is I had never heard this before explained this way, but you guys say it. You say it from the front of the room in a seminar setting. But you also. We use it around the house. And you'll say things like the units of energy that are being used. So I guess this would connect to why forgive? It's like, why, why forgive someone? Why can't I just carry this around? And you guys will often. I don't know why. For some reason this just hit me different that you'll say like, well, like the units of energy that that person is that you're giving to that person or you're giving away or, you know, some. Some people might language it like take your power back or, you know, you're giving your power away when you do that. And you guys often put the words to it that it's units of energy. So if I'm going to choose to hold this resentment and, you know, not forgive or whatever, some people might be like, no, no skin off my back. And it's like, you have to be willing to understand and admit, like, that takes units of energy to your. You often call it uphold.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You're holding this up, this identity of like, I'm mad at you, I don't forgive you, you did something wrong, you're wrong, however that comes out. And then I'm using energy to keep this posture of righteousness I don't forgive you of, you don't deserve to be forgiven. And how that affects so the why. So why is forgiveness a gift to yourself? Because you're freeing up those units of energy that you can use to do something productive, creative, artistic, whatever it is that you want to be doing.

[B]

Yes. And if I'm not forgiving, if I'm holding on to something or a grudge or, you know, living in resentment, that's depression for me. I'm just speaking for myself. It's exhausting. It's energy and life is so precious. And it's hard enough navigating, you know, life at times. You know, we're either adding to the schism or adding to the harmony or adding to harmony. And that's we're. Or we're opening or we're closing. There's. There's themes to this, to this human Experience and it's recognizing. And so for those of you who are listening, we've been sharing our own experiences and some practices. Tune in and ask yourself, you know, I don't think of maybe an individual in your life that you're feeling that stuck energy or you're having a difficult time forgiving. Maybe it's a sister or a brother or co worker. And you know, a lot of times innocently, ego has such conviction about things that we get so righteous that we miss. Okay, hey, I've done that. Do you know what I mean? If you really look inside yourself, it's like, holy smokes. Yeah. And so we're so angry at this individual for what they've said or the tone of voice of what they said it or. I mean, I'm just using different examples of day to day. I'm using just day to day pieces. And so, you know, I'm not here to tell you how to live your life or what to let go of or not, because it's. What I do recognize is forgiveness is. It's a natural state when we are in, you know, in our, I call it right mind or in alignment with our heart.

[A]

Something that you just said reminded me of one little quote, and this is the Book of Forgiving by Desmond Tutu. And he wrote it with his daughter. The fourfold path of healing ourselves and our world. And there was just one little again back to kind of the, the units of energy and who's holding the power of that? He writes, without forgiveness, we remain tethered to the person who harmed us. We are bound with chains of bitterness, tied up, trapped until we can forgive the person who harmed us. That person holds the keys to our happiness. Like they, they. I don't know why that for anyone who maybe needed to hear that. Yes, it's like, do you see that you're. You're pretty much saying, here's the keys to my, to my happiness. Yes, you take them. Because I'm choosing not to go there. So they're all yours.

[B]

And we, we've all done that.

[A]

We've all chosen to do that because that feels, that feels what we should. That feels true right now. Until it doesn't.

[B]

Until it doesn't. And we all have the capacity to free ourselves. And I think that's the power of. For giving. It's giving to ourselves, it's giving to life. It blesses our families and it allows us to be in right mind.

[A]

Beautifully said. We have covered a lot of ground here in the forgiveness, apologies, atonement, amends everything under that umbrella. One thing you mentioned as a tool and something that you connect to is mental architecture. What do you mean by that?

[B]

Yes, of course. Okay. If you think of the originating thought that's creating you stress. So. My sister was so harsh with me. She was cruel. And can you believe, like, she said what she said? Oh, my gosh. I know. Do you know what? She's done that before? Building, building. Oh, yeah. She always does that. Building, building. Like ego. Mind is building this architecture around it, the support system to prove itself. Right. Does that make sense?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so it's like she's. Oh, do you know what? You'll never believe it. Like, I totally forgot about this. But, you know, two years ago she did the exact same thing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, how dare she? So it's like we build all these structure. That's what it sounds like. That's what it looks like. That's what it feels like. So it's not, if you notice, like our stories are usually they begin with one single thought of suffering. And then mind builds what I call a yes. Like it builds like a support around it and that creates even more clouded vision, confusion.

[A]

Beautifully said. Well, I think at this moment maybe we could take some questions that have come in from inner circle.

[B]

Okay. Fantastic.

[A]

Okay, the first question was from Lauren, who wants to know? Sage, does forgiveness count if you forgive someone in your heart versus if you forgive someone face to face? Does it count?

[B]

That's a great question. Well, I can't say that what I'm saying is true, but it's my experience. Absolutely. We all have people that have passed. Or maybe you have somebody that 20 years ago you had a circumstance that was hurtful or painful. I think that's what's extraordinary. When transcend mind. And I'll go back to last night. I was just reflecting and looking at different practices that I do. And I'll pray this simple prayer. Sometimes spirit in me connects to the spirit in you. I release you now. I forgive you. I bless you. Thank you. I find that to be so incredibly healing. And. And another one that I wrote sometimes I'll say is, I invite once again, if you're a believer, if you're agnostic, it's really, you know, we're speaking to the source that breathes us life. So I invoke the light of God. I invoke the light of creation. Bless all whom I've ever wronged in any way and for who? All who have ever wronged me. Bless them. I release them now. I release me now. Because, you know, there's that dance, that dynamic that as we're releasing others, we're releasing ourselves. And as we release ourselves, we're releasing others. As I let you off the hook, I let me off the hook. As I let myself off the hook, I let you off the hook. And so I do believe my experience, it would be yes.

[A]

Yes. I also love the way you do ancestral. Ancestral, like, clearings and like, we'll do ho' oponopono on ancestors. And you can you do it on your parents, your grandparents, the parents. Because like we said, people's impressions and their references from life that are passed down, that make us make the choices and have the behaviors act out the behaviors that we are oftentimes are sources that could use some compassion and forgiveness. Clearing.

[B]

Absolutely. And, you know, if you think of life, we're iterating, we're evolving, and so. Whoa, I better get this, you know, tidied up internally, tidied up or freed up, Cleared up, opened up so that we can be in the world and not be affected by those great waves of confusion.

[A]

Perfect. Could we go to the next one?

[B]

Of course.

[A]

The next question is from Neeraj.

[B]

Neeraj. Hi.

[A]

Niraj writes, how does one get the real feeling of forgiveness in the heart rather than the mental talk of forgiveness?

[B]

That's a great question. Well, if I say, say if we just have discord and I'm like, hey, Mary, yeah, sorry about that, and I walk out. So maybe I said lip service. I said, it could be a little bit placating. It's insincere. You're saying it because possibly you think you should say it. And by the way, I've done that, so I know what it feels like, I know what it looks like. Or you're saying it because you're going to be seeing them later for dinner and you want the drama to stop. That's one path. So that's when any time that I've done that in my life, it's lacking the openness, the inner freedom, you know? But when forgiveness comes from compassion, because we recognize. Holy frick. I've been blind, too, you know. Me too. I've been so unconscious and I've been harsh and I've probably came across mean or crazy or. And sometimes even in a moment, if I'm apologizing, sometimes I won't even be specific. Sometimes I'll say, like, you know, honey, I'm so sorry I'm not my best self right now. And how I just came across. I'm sorry. That wasn't cool. Please forgive me. And it's, you know, I'm sorry. I was sometimes and it's, it's, it's. I'll give context to things. It's like, honey, do you know what? I was just, I was coming down and I was quick and I didn't feel like I fully connected to you and. Can we begin again? Can we reset? That's another thing that I. We do a lot is just the we. Just the other day I came in and I was like, mayor, can we reset? I'm sorry if in that moment I wasn't my best self. And you were so kind. You were like, of course. But it wasn't just of course. It was like, of course. And from that place, when one person goes first and I don't know if we wait for the other person to do it once again, it gets weird expectation. And we think, why aren't they saying sorry? Well, when is he or she going to come and be like, hello? And they don't come. And so we can sit there and be mad about it, resent that they're not coming or they're not calling, or we can just simply go first. I find that path much easier. Did that answer the question?

[A]

I think it did. I think it did. How does one get the real feeling of forgiveness? Like, for me too, I see how it's affecting.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Us. If it's us.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Or you.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Or like, to me, to get the real feeling is just either walk in someone else's shoes or flip it around and look in the mirror. Every situation is just a house of mirrors.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So I think getting in touch with where do we do that is a good place to get the feeling in our heart.

[B]

Yeah. Our self awareness and self reflection. That's really. That's responsibility and that's. That's a life of freedom. Because we're all sovereign beings. We're all autonomous. We all have the capacity and the gift to use our thoughts constructively or destructively.

[A]

Beautiful. Okay, the fourth question we have here is from Demetra.

[B]

Hi, Demetra.

[A]

Who writes, as children, do we have to forgive our parents for the way they treated us, or do we have to accept them as they are?

[B]

Well, if you were sitting in front of me, I might ask, what does your heart say? You know, we don't have to do anything. I think that's a gift of life as autonomous humans. We don't have to do anything. So I'd say that the answer is no, you don't have to. If it was me, I'd check in and ask, how does that. What does that feel like to not forgive your parents? What does that feel like when you look at them? What does that feel like when you think about them? What does that feel like when you hear their voice? And if you're like, not as connected intimately and closely as you would like, from my own experience to. You don't even have to say anything. You don't have to say, mom, I forgive you. It doesn't have to be that dramatic. You know, you can just continue to do your self reflection. You can use one of these practices, inquiry or Hohopo Ono, or none of them, or find something that's true for you, or hold them in prayer or do a process of release. And as you have your practices of whether it be meditation and prayerfulness that guides your self back to source or back to your nature back to alignment, it's from that place that this is possible. And so the answer is, you don't have to. But it's from my experience, kinder and saner when I do.

[A]

Well said. Okay, we got one more.

[B]

Okay, this one's from Paula Paola.

[A]

Paola.

[B]

Hi, Paola.

[A]

Who writes, I would love to know how to accept that you decide to forgive and move on. At times I wonder if forgiving and staying is the right decision. I know forgiveness is necessary for my own peace, but at times I wonder if forgiving and staying is the right decision. How do you know if forgiving means stay or leave?

[B]

That's a beautiful question. Well, I don't know that they're mutually exclusive and I don't even know that that's the right way to say it. I think you can. Why not forgive? Okay, why not forgive? Because it frees you to do so and you feel that inner spaciousness. And then from that place of alignment, from that place of connectedness to life and to your partner, you can decide whether staying is true for you or not. But then you're not leaving because you're pissed, or you're not leaving because they wronged you, or you're not leaving because you know you've had an argument or something. You're leaving because it's true in your heart that it's just time. And that's so kind. That's so beautiful. And so I think you can forgive and stay, or you can forgive and kindly and consciously leave. But it doesn't have to be from a place of blame or judging another. It can actually be from a place of. You can leave and be connected from A place of understanding one another. That's beautiful. Right?

[A]

Different than like a flight response or something. If you can clear with that human and then consciously decide, okay, what's true for me now?

[B]

Yes. Yes. I look back at myself as a younger version of myself. And I remember in my first marriage didn't have the same wisdom that I have today. And a lot of emotionality and drama around that decision was really unnecessary. I had a love for him. I know he had a love for me. I chose. It was true for my own life's journey and I felt as well for him. But I can't decide that for him. And I made that decision. That decision was being true to my own heart. And I mean, I wish nothing but happiness for him and bless him, and yet didn't have the words or the understanding or the inner clarity to be able to articulate in that way like I do today. But what's beautiful is life gives us an opportunity after 20 some odd years. I had the opportunity maybe about a year ago to speak to him. And it was just kind. It's. It's, you know, we don't spend 10 years or seven years. Even if you think they're a total jerk, even if they, you know, hurt you, if you've shared a big chunk of life together, there's. There's those ties. Yep.

[A]

That version of yourself, that version of themselves.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Giving people time. You said evolve, evolution earlier and grow and like become.

[B]

Yes. And from that place, the grace for yourself and for them. So I don't know if there's a right way or a wrong way, but I can just share my own experience. I left from. I wasn't in a whole state of mind and heart when I left the first time in my first marriage. That's honest. But yet my heart is actually completely open and forgiving and in gratitude for the experience of that stage of my life. But I didn't have that understanding. But it feels freer and feels truer for myself and was kind to be able to at least somewhat articulate that.

[A]

Beautiful. Well, we've talked about tools and ways that you can reach folks that maybe are from the past, past relationships, parents alive or on the other side. We hope that you take some of these tools for yourself.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Create some space, free up some units of energy. So if there's someone that you need to reach out to, make a call, write a letter.

[B]

Yes. And know that it doesn't have to be a phone call. This can be in the silence, in the interior of your own mind. And heart. This can be in your meditation. This can be through prayer. It can be through a phone call and the remembrance that there's no ask in it. It's for giving. It's just an offering. It's an allowance. It's an acceptance of yourself, of the other. And it's I'm really sorry I missed. I love you. Thank you. Thank you to all of you for taking this path with us here today and for tuning in. Thank you for your generous hearts and thank you for staying with us so long. God bless and we look forward to coming again.

[A]

See you next time.

[B]

Thank you. Mary B.

[A]

Thank you, Sage.

[B]

Thank you for your vulnerability and for this conversation. Amen.

[A]

The Tony Robbins Podcast is inspired and directed by Tony Robbins and his teachings. It's produced by US Team Tony, Copyright Robbins Research.