Why the Person You Love Feels Impossible To Reach Sometimes | Donna Eden & David Feinstein

Summary

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Podcast Summary:

The Tony Robbins Channel
Episode: Why the Person You Love Feels Impossible To Reach Sometimes | Donna Eden & David Feinstein
Date: April 21, 2026
Guests: Donna Eden, David Feinstein
Host: [Presumed] Tony Robbins or event host

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Main Theme / Purpose

This episode dives into why couples often feel on “different wavelengths,” especially during conflict, by exploring the role of individual sensory-processing types and energetic patterns. Donna Eden (energy medicine pioneer) and David Feinstein (clinical psychologist) share their personal journey and practical tools from their decades-long relationship, illustrating how understanding energetic differences—and shifting your state—creates true connection and deeper compassion in partnerships.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Initial Disconnect & Energetic Compatibility

• Donna and David’s rocky beginnings:
  • "David and I have been together for 48 years, and those first years were tough, you know, we were totally incompatible. You’ve got to get your energies balanced in order to be with another person." (Donna, 00:00)
• Energy operates at multiple levels: The couples’ struggles weren’t just intellectual or emotional but had an energetic—and instinctive—dimension.

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2. Biology of Stress & Relationship Conflict

• Fight, Flight, or Freeze explained:
  • Under stress, blood leaves the forebrain (the “thinking center”) and moves into the body—preparing for primal responses.
  • "When you are in stress...it actually triggers the fight or flight response...So that all happens in an instant. These are reflex points that bring the blood back up to the brain so that you can think again." (David, 05:22)
• Why you 'lose your partner' in conflict: Both partners become reactive and lose their capacity for empathy and complex thought.

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3. Techniques to Break Stress Patterns—Energy Balancing

• Demonstrated techniques:
  • Neurovascular hold:
    • Place fingers gently on forehead (the little lumps above the eyes) and think about a stressful problem.
    • "When you hold those points, the more you will get the blood back into your forebrain, so you really can deal with whatever’s going on." (Donna, 02:33)
  • ‘Four Thumps’ exercise:
    • Thump cheekbones (stomach meridian, grounding), under collarbone (kidney meridian, nerves), thymus gland (heart chakra, immune/vitality), and near bra line (energy circulation).
    • "It seems so simple and nonsensical, but it isn’t...you’ll keep your own energy, and one of you won’t start feeling like you’re losing energy." (Donna, 18:20)
  • Bellybutton/Third Eye Hook-up:
    • Middle finger in belly button, other at third eye; pull both up, creates "microcosmic orbit."
    • "This is one of the best things you can do...And your brain will work better. If you know anybody who goes into a seizure, immediately put one finger in their belly button, one here, and they’ll come out of the seizure." (Donna, 72:00)
  • "Heaven Rushing In":
    • Rub hands, shake, breathe, reach to the sky, scoop imagined energy to heart center.
    • "You’re just going to receive...whatever energies you are needing right now." (Donna, 77:27)
• All methods are simple, accessible, and focus on energy self-regulation in the heat of conflict.

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4. The Four Sensory/Energetic Types

(Foundational for understanding relationship misfires.)

a) Visual

• Focus: Sees/visualizes what needs to be fixed, future-oriented, guides/“leaders.”
• Motto: "You’re wrong."
• Challenge: Under stress, energy beams out through the eyes—can feel blaming.
• Quote: "They know your life will be much better if you just take their advice because they can see what needs to happen... But for the visual, they're just giving you their gift." (Donna, 45:19/47:02)

b) Kinesthetic

• Focus: Feels deeply, lives in the present; wants others to feel good, sometimes over-accommodates.
• Motto: "I don't want you to feel wrong."
• Challenge: Takes in others’ energy, can neglect self-boundaries.
• Revelation: Kinesthetics say yes instinctively but may regret later; past/present confusion common under stress.

c) Digital (Thinker)

• Focus: Rational, logical, head-oriented, can be emotionally unavailable under stress.
• Motto: "I’m right."
• Challenge: Arguments feel “won” by logic, but disconnection occurs; little access to emotions in conflict.

d) Tonal

• Focus: Deep listeners, sensitive to nuance, absorbed in past; need to feel heard.
• Motto: "I'm mad at you for making me feel wrong."
• Challenge: Picks up things unsaid, easily triggered, may withdraw and internalize hurts.

Typology big idea:

Each person has a dominant mode, especially when stressed. Under stress, three modes deactivate; partners default to their primary, making mutual understanding harder.

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5. Personal History & Storytelling

• Donna and David’s own 48-year dynamic includes intense early incompatibility, mutual heartbreak, even two breakups.
• Story of “Back to Eden”—their fated, energetically charged reunion at a gas station—beautifully illustrates soul-connection despite surface-level difference. (See 28:10–28:52)
• The telling highlights how real harmony was only possible when they learned to work with, not against, their energetic oppositeness:
  • "By choosing someone...so different, it allows you to expand yourself, to become more of who you could be. That seems to be nature’s plan." (David, 28:52)

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6. Practical Application: The STAR Pact

An agreement for couples:

• Stop (pause argument)
• Tap (do energy exercises together)
• Attune (reconnect energetically)
• Resolve (address conflict from this new state)

"That pact is that it is more important for you right now to stop the argument ... but they don’t give you a way to get out of your primary mode. Even relaxation techniques ... don’t work when you’re under stress." (David, 61:45)

Key Point:
Sessions with Donna & David focus not just on content (words, ideas) but on shifting states and energies so real connection is possible.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Donna on relationship disconnect:

  "Have you ever had that experience of feeling you were on completely different wavelengths than your partner?...You could not touch him or her or feel him or get him to cross over to understand what you’re saying." (06:04)

• David on the “emotional torture chamber”:

  "For some people, it’s a trap into an emotional torture chamber...triggering one another’s primal stress response again and again. But for whatever reason, they can’t leave." (20:01)

• On why differences are a gift:

  "By choosing someone...so different, it allows you to expand yourself, to become more of who you could be. That seems to be nature’s plan." (David, 28:52)

• Donna on kinesthetic reality:

  "Kinesthetics want to say yes. It feels really good to say yes. And you love what it does for other people, but...you don’t know that...you stupid girl, why did you say yes?" (51:51)

• On patterns and stress:

  "When you are in this stress mode, the first thing that you can do is that one of you invokes the pact. That is an affirmation of your relationship, that is saying, our connection is more important to me right now than me being right." (David, 69:53)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | Content / Exercise | |-----------|----------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:00 | Episode Opening | Why energetic mismatch occurs in couples | | 02:20 | Neurovascular Stress Release | Forehead hold, stress demonstration | | 05:22 | Fight, Flight, Freeze in Relationships | Biology of conflict and importance of energy regulation | | 13:00 | Donna & David’s Early Arguments | Personal story of mismatched types and their resolution | | 17:18 | Four Thumps Exercise | Stepwise energy tapping for self-grounding | | 20:00 | Levels of Relationship Satisfaction | The spectrum from “torture chamber” to “extraordinary connection” | | 28:10 | “Back to Eden” Reunion Story | Fateful reconnection after their breakup | | 45:08 | Four Energetic Types Explained | Visual, Kinesthetic, Digital, Tonal—attributes, patterns, challenges | | 61:45 | STAR Pact Introduction | Stop–Tap–Attune–Resolve as a relational reset | | 72:00 | Hook-up Exercise | Microcosmic orbit, centering tool for stress and reconnection | | 77:27 | Heaven Rushing In | Powerful group energy reset, guided exercise |

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Speaker Tone & Style

• Donna Eden: Upbeat, demonstrative, warmly anecdotal, intuitive, nurturing, a blend of earthy and magical.
• David Feinstein: Gentle, analytical, calm, self-deprecating, insightful, often humorous about his own “digital” limitations.

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Practical Takeaways

1. Identify your (and your partner’s) sensory/energetic type.

   • Do you default to vision, feeling, logic, or sound when under pressure? Recognizing these patterns is the first step to compassion.

2. Create preventative agreements (STAR Pact)

   • Agree to interrupt conflict and reset energetically rather than let instincts hijack the relationship.

3. Use physical energy techniques in the moment

   • Forehead holds, thumping, the bellybutton/third-eye hook-up, "Heaven Rushing In"—these simple tools can shift out of automatic stress and back into connected, collaborative interaction.

4. Your differences are not a curse, but a curriculum.

   • As David said, "Nature’s plan" for soul growth is selecting partners who activate our dormant capacities.

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End of Summary

Transcript

[A]

Have you ever had that experience of feeling you were on completely different wavelengths than your partner? David and I have been together for 48 years, and those first years were tough, you know, we were totally incompatible. You've got to get your energies balanced in order to be with another person.

[B]

What Donna works with is a different level of energy.

[A]

I'm just going to show you how everybody in here can shift somebody else's energies and you can shift your own. Our sensory system is what. Our sensory systems govern your instincts. They govern your instincts. And when your instincts take over, your brain is not there. Maybe I'll show one more thing about that. Somebody else pop up. Okay. Okay. Now I'm going to show you what happens to every one of you when you get in one of those awful experiences with your partner where it just feels so dreadful. Okay, you hold your arm real strong. She's really strong to begin with. Now think of something. I'm going to do it like this so that nobody has to. Okay, now hold your arm up. Yeah. Now think of something that bothers you. Don't tell us what it is. Just bring it to mind. You got it. It. That's how quick stress hits the body. I mean, it's instant, it's automatic. And. And you. And we think that, well, we can think our way out of. Out of something, and you really can't, because the blood leaves your forebrain to go into your body as it did for your ancestors to beat somebody up or run away, save your life. Okay? So I'm going to show you, you know, you can't go yet. Let's see. She could sit right here. Sit right there. Now, have you ever thrown your hand up to your forehead and said, oh, my God, or something like that? I think that's an instinct that comes from your ancient past because if you hold these points right above your eyes, most of us have a little lump there. And you hold it softly and think about your problem. That's what I want you to do. I want you to think about your.

[B]

That's right. Go ahead and hold them gently.

[A]

And what I'm going to do is I'm going to hold these and start feeling things. I will feel something, and when I do, I will start telling you what it is. But her blood left a while ago, tell you that. Okay, Now I'm feeling. She's got a bit of sludge here. So that means that her blood is trying to come back up into her forebrain a bit. This is an excellent thing to do when you've Got a major stress going on to just think about it and hold these points. These are called neurovascular points, and they work with your blood system and your nervous system. Okay, I'm going to just see. Let me have your arm again. I want you to continue to think of your problem. I could get her stronger, but she's strong now. But the longer you hold those points, the more you will get the blood back into your forebrain. So you really can deal with whatever's going on. Can you teach me how to do that? Yes. Yes. I mean, you can put. Here's what I would do. This is a little bit different. Put your fingers right here and your thumbs right in your temples. And you don't hold it hard, but the thumbs in the temples are. Because there's an energy there. Neurovascular is for something called triple warmer meridian. And triple warmer governs the fight, flight, or freeze response. So if you hold what? All my energy just went. Oh, all right. Yeah, yeah, That's good. Now think of your problem. No, I'm gonna take your arm. You think of your. Think of your problem. Okay, see, you bring the blood back up, and you teach your body not to freak out so much. Your body, you keep your blood up there, and then, you know you're not going to have your instincts take over. Just remember, your instincts are from your back brain, and you know you want your front brain working. Okay, soldier fingers, hold your temples. Yes. You also can do it like this. Put one hand in front and one hand in back. The points in the back govern. They govern fear points and also the primal hypothalamus that deals with stress also. Okay. All right, thank you.

[B]

So very simply, what happens is that when you are in stress with your partner, when you're in stress, it actually triggers the fight or flight response. We all know that the fight or flight response sends blood to your arms to fight or your legs to run away. So that all happens in an instant. It happens really fast. These are reflex points that bring the blood back up to the brain so that you can think again. And that interrupts the fight or flight response, which is a good thing when you're in an argument.

[A]

Is that why we. When we're thinking of something, we do this to bring our. Absolutely. That's so fascinating. Instinctually, you know, or you see somebody go, yes, right on that. Just get that energy back there. I'm going to walk around like this. All right, now. So thanks. Now, here's the thing to know that when you get really. I don't know, stuck in that. In an argument with your partner, the reason why it feels like you can, he cannot. Let's see. I'm going to say it started all over. Have you ever had that experience of feeling you were on completely different wavelengths than your partner? You could not touch him or her or feel him or get him to cross over to understand what you're saying. It just feels. Feels bonkers. Do you know what I mean? Well, that is because opposites usually attract. And so you've attracted somebody to you who has a primal primary sensory system that is different from yours. And so when you get into that place where you have no blood in your forebrain anymore and you're going by your instincts, I mean, you just. It feels like your partner is just a dreadful human being suddenly. And you are right. But the truth is neither one of you have all your capacities because in ancient times, that's streamlining. That's streamlining where you just had to go. One sensory system, one instinct takes over. And for some people it's to run away. And some people it is to beat somebody up. And some people it is to freeze. And there's reason for even freeze from our ancestry, because freezing, everything turns down. You don't need to. Well, if you're in a jungle and you're frozen, you just can't move. You can do neither. Well, an animal can't even smell you as well. So it's like, yes. And your oxygen levels go down. So it really is about. It's a way to protect yourself. So anyway, because we tend to choose somebody who is different than us now, you wouldn't believe it, but David and I are different than each other. It was really in the beginning because. Okay, I'm going to talk about us. All right. David. David tend to. Tended to win all the arguments, but never because he was right. He. He won them because he is of the type. He is called a digital. And digitals tend to go up in their head. And he got very, very clear and very, very rational and smart and he talking. And so that's what he could do. So it looked like he was winning. And I'm the type called a kinesthetic who loses her words when she gets overwhelmed by something like that. So I would just start crying. And he thought he won. But here's what began the change for us. It was one of those dreadful days where there he was waxing eloquent, yapping on. I was sobbing and I said. And I was thinking to myself, I'm going to leave Now I'm going to leave this man. He said, I can't live this way. And I was really going to do that, but I couldn't even tell him my words were gone. So I said, so I just got up and I was going to leave the room. And there was a door right at the room, at the front of the room. And I went down and I sat down at the. At the door. And this is a sort of a go to for me when I. Because everything's scrambled in my brain. And I just did this exercise. If anybody wants to do it with me, do it now. I'll just explain as we go. You put your right foot over your left knee, right hand around the bottom of your feet, left hand around your ankle, and breathe in through your nose and kind of lift your body and breathe out and let your body just drop. Okay, one more time. Now put your leg down. I notice a few of you yawning. I just want to say that. Why do you need it if you're yawning with this one? You really need this particular exercise. I tend to pull my leg towards me also. You know, I grew up very dyslexic, and so words were always confused. And this is the exercise that helped me move out of dyslexia. So it's just. And then you put your fingers together like this. Put your thumb to your third eye in between the eyebrows, and do the same breathing. One more time. Now, as you let your breath out, bend your fingers into your forehead, push in hard, and pull all the way to your temples and let it go. Now, see, I feel much better because I needed that in the beginning. I also. I don't know if you remember, but is this stuck on my. Honey, is this stuck on the. Oh, there. Thank you. You know, here I often think, thank God I didn't leave him when I should have, because it just got so good when we. When we figured it out. And it's like, we don't get thrown like we used to. And in the beginning, it was pretty bad, right?

[B]

We had our moments.

[A]

So. Okay, I did start talking. I'll start talking about visuals. I'm going to start talking.

[B]

You're going to get a couple up and. Okay.

[A]

Okay, here's what I want. All right, come up. Yeah. Okay, here's what I'm gonna do. Okay. I'm gonna have you come over here and face her, and I'm gonna just energy test you. It's the floor. Okay, you can put one arm down. I'm just. Take one arm okay, I'll take this arm. All right. You're very strong. Do you agree? Yeah. Yeah, you're very strong. Let's see what you are. Oh, you're both. That's all right. I'm going to do the other one first. David, here's what I want you to do. That's all right. You're strong. Here's. I want you. I want you to do a little pretending, okay? I want you to. You have something to share with him and tell him, and. And you're going to pretend that you're listening, but you're going to think of something else. Think of a game or something, okay? That's all I want you to do. And you're just gonna start talking to him. I'm so excited, because I want. I want you to go get us food, and then we could come back, we could eat together and be beautiful. And tonight I want to do amazing things together. Okay? Now hold your arm real strong. And you see, she lost energy because she picks it up on her energy field that you weren't really listening, okay? And now this time, really listen as she's. Okay. Okay, now watch what you did to her. You gave her so much energy. And that's very simple. I'm going to keep them up here so you can see something else. All right? Okay, Let me see how this arm is. Let's see. You're nice and strong to begin with. I might have to choose another couple because your two might be too strong now. Yeah, you're strong. You'll have to go, baby, if tonight is the only time that you can hold me.

[B]

When.

[A]

Let me. All right. Mozzie and Freddy. Okay. Mozzy and Freddy. Yeah. I'm gonna just see if you're nice and strong to begin with. Okay? Hold your arm real strong. Hold it real strong. Okay. She's nice and weak. I'll just do one thing. Okay, and you. Let's see you. I'll do it. This arm. Hold up. Push up. All right, you're strong.

[B]

Hold.

[A]

You're strong and she's weak. Okay, let's try it again. To make sure, I'm using one finger. That's weak. Now you're going to hold hands. No, only one. I need to test the other one. Okay, now turn this way. Okay, you face that. Okay, hold on. Hold hands. Hold your arms strong. Push up. He's getting stronger, and he's getting weaker. That's really important to see that we trade energies back and forth, you know, in a couple. So one starts feeling stronger, and one starts Feeling weaker, you know?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. All right, we're going to fix you. All right, here's what you guys gotta stand up here. Okay, here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna do four thumps. Okay? First you're gonna. And anybody want to out there, it'll. It's good for your energy. Thump your cheekbones. What this is, is this is the beginning of stomach meridian. And it makes the energy just go straight down your body and hook you to the ground so you're more grounded. Okay, now you're going to drop down to here, right underneath your collarbone. Right there. Yeah. It hurts when you need it.

[B]

So find your collarbone and move towards the center. And there's a lump for most people right before they would meet and go under the lump. And that slightly softer place is where you want to tap right there.

[A]

And now you want to tap those points. Tap them. This is for kidney meridian. So this is great for your nervous system. It's great for your kidneys. It's great when you're feeling afraid. Okay, now you're going to come right to there. This is your thymus gland. It's also on your heart chakra. Your thymus gland is really important for your immune system so you stay well and healthy. And when you think about it, think about like Tarzan before he swung on the vines or any gorillas. They all thump you because it gives you vitality and keeps you more alive and in. Okay, and the last one is right here, right at the bottom of your bra line. Fellas, stop right there. Now, that seems so simple and nonsensical, but it isn't. Now you can stop. Now you're going to hold hands, and now you're going to hold your arm. Push up and push up. So they keep their own energy. And this is just a great, simple thing to do every day. I mean, stand in front of each other and do it. You know, you'll keep your own energy, and one of you won't start feeling like you're losing energy. You're welcome. You're so welcome.

[B]

Okay, I'm going to talk for a little while, so I'd like to come down, be a little bit closer to you. So, as you have seen, relationship difficulties often trace back to conflict within the partners. More than conflict between the partners. I'll tell you about one of the very common kinds of conflict, and that is that you are fundamentally seeing this person in as your partner. And what you see is beneath. It's deeper than their physical appearance. It's deeper than even Their personality. So why would nature complicate that arrangement by making it so often so damn hard? Okay. Has anyone had that experience in your lifetime where you knew what you wanted with this person and it just was very difficult? Anybody ever? Okay. The reason that it's so hard is because after the honeymoon period, you're differences become more pronounced. Differences in how you construct reality, differences in how you communicate, differences in what you want, differences in what you value. And the way that you navigate those differences shapes the relationship. And there are several possible outcomes. For some people, they go their separate ways. For some people, it's a trap into an emotional torture chamber where they are triggering one another's primal stress response again and again. But for whatever reason, they can't leave the relationship. Much more common is that there will be comfortable compromises. Comfortable compromises. And those comfortable compromises mean that you're able to move along. But it's kind of, maybe, if you're lucky, a B minus in relationship satisfaction, which means you're still above most couples, or maybe it's a C or a C minus. So that compromise is making it easier, making it more comfortable, but it's not really dealing with the differences. And sometimes you learn how to deal with the differences. So those differences themselves become sources of growth, become sources of passion. And I know that that sounds like the good place to go. It's exciting, but it's also dangerous. Because when you are working at that level, when you are no longer wallpapering over the cockroaches, does that make sense? When you're no longer compromising in that way, then your wild spirit has room to come out. But that can be very uncomfortable. That can be very uncomfortable. One of the things we love about watching Tony and Sage teach this class is how transparent they are. So we all know quite a bit about that moment of shut the fuck up, right? But that was Sage in her wild spirit coming out. And what triggered that? Those words. Tony did everything right. He listened actively. He restated. He reached out for physical contact, and he got that response. Well, what's beautiful is that there was room for that response. There was room for Sage's wild spirit to come out in the most inconvenient way, in the most inconvenient way for that moment. And Toni embraced it. Toni was able to meet her, which is what she wanted. If she needed space, that was what she got. Now, Donna and I have been through the whole spectrum in our 48 years. We broke up twice. Really? Seriously. And our friends, Donna's friends, my friends, were Relieved because they had seen us torture one another in so many ways. And we were not able to do this. But one of the things that really was interesting was after our most decisive breakup, the universe stepped in with a sense of humor to trick us to get back together. We had truly ended it. Donna had moved to a different state, and I don't mean that metaphorically. She had actually moved from San Diego to Oregon, partially to get away from me. Shortly after she moved, she got some incredible invitations in San Diego to teach that next summer. So she called me. We weren't even really on speaking terms, but she called me and said, I know you're going to find out that I'm back in San Diego for this summer from our mutual friends. So I wanted to tell you directly. So I go. And she said, but I want you to know I'm not coming back because you're there. I said, okay. I was afraid I was okay with that. I had bounced back into another relationship where we were less different. So it was easier to make the compromises now. At that time, my parents happened to live in Los Angeles. And I visited them one weekend during that summer. And as I was leaving, my dad gave me a book. My dad didn't usually give me books, but he said, this book has really meant a lot to me. And he said, I have an extra copy of it, and I'd like you to have it. So I took it, and I look at the title, Back to Eden. It didn't occur to me that that had any special meaning, but I figured, okay, I'll just put this book. It'll go in the pile of books I want to read but never get around to. You probably have that pile. And I drive back to San Diego. And when I get there, I stop off for gas, and I look up and who's pumping gas into her car but Donna? And our eyes meet, and there is this energy.

[A]

David, I have to interrupt you. David, I say I have to interrupt you, and then I'll shut up. I just want to say that what you said.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Were you going to say the same thing?

[B]

That's what I was going to say. Thank you. And what I said that she's remembering so fondly was Donna. I'm practically married.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But we decided to get together to just go and have a cup of tea. And within an hour, we had just rebonded. Because it was so strong, the soul connection was so strong that it really was Back to Eden. But that doesn't mean it was easy, because it wasn't we started to figure out how to make compromises to make it work. So they were often hard to get to, but we managed to get to them. So for years, we were living in a relationship that had a lot of compromises where we would tiptoe around our fundamental differences. But finally, we started to realize that by choosing someone or being chosen by someone who is so different that it allows you to expand yourself, to become more of who you could be. Because someone that is so fundamentally different has a very different way of living on the planet than you do. And what we came to realize is that this seems to be nature's plan. Nature's plan, where nature has decided that for people to be attracted to partners who are energetically, very different from them, that is an extraordinary tutorial in becoming more fully human. Now, very early in our relationship. Winding the clock back, we're down. Donna came as my guest to a class I was teaching. It was a hypnosis class. And that evening I was teaching about how people code their experiences. A good hypnotist. It was a hypnosis class with clinicians there as the audience. A good hypnotist will work very differently with someone who organizes their inner world according to the way they see. They will work differently with a person who organizes their inner world according to the way they feel. There are four basic types. Seeing, feeling, hearing, and thinking. Now, at the break, I stole a little moment with my sweetie because I wanted her to tell me that she saw how I had really engaged the fascination of this group of therapists who were generally older and more experience than I was. But she missed that cue, which often happened back then. Instead, she said, you know, it's very interesting to see how you interviewed people and could figure out their primary way of making sense of the world. But I can do. I'm thinking of a physical test to be able to do that, to determine what type they are. And besides the little ego twins, that she hadn't commented on my teaching prowess, I thought, well, this is incredible. This is so wrong, because these are psychological differences. They are not physical differences. They are psychological. And I started to enlighten her about this, but she said, no, let me show you. And so she grabs somebody that's at the water cooler and does this physical test. And the physical test showed that he was the same type as what I had determined during the class. Then the class starts again, and that's all that people want to talk about and want her to show them. And she shows these energy tests, kind of a variation of what you saw here. And so the entire rest of the evening, I had to put aside my agenda while everybody was focused on her. And if I could have heard my guardian angels back then, I would have heard them say, get used to it, David. Well, over the years, which he discovered, that evening was really the first time that our disciplines came together. And so we have found that it's been very useful to help people understand how it is that they construct reality. And particularly for couples to understand that their partner probably constructs reality in a way that's very different from the way that they construct reality. And the kind of kicker is that even though we all use all four types, we all use sight, which is the visual. We all use the principles of sight, which is visual. The principles of hearing, which is tonal. The principle principles of feeling, which is kinesthetic, and the principles of thinking, which we call digital. So everybody uses all four. But under stress, under stress that feels like survival stress. Three of those become inactive. They become inactive. And only the one that is your primary type is how you are seeing the world at that time. It's how you're making sense of things. And it doesn't have to be a matter of life or death. It can be relationship, because our ancestors depended on our closest people. And that was a life and death relationship. If that didn't work out, you were in a lot of trouble. So whenever relationship goes into a little bit of disharmony, that deprogramming comes up so that you go into that fight or flight mode, and you go into your primary sensory mode. So this was something that we began to work with over the years. And it got a real interesting affirmation. Now, I know these are not new terms. Carl Jung talked about them many, many years ago, the kinesthetic and all that. Tony talked about them yesterday. So they're not new. But what is interesting is that unlike a personality system like the Enneagram or the Five Elements, this focuses in on exactly where couples get in trouble. This focuses in on how they deal with their differences. And one of the ways that it got affirmed was that when Donna had her practice, she would often work with a newborn baby and the mother right after the trials of childbirth. And to give them a balancing, basically. But she could also see Dharma from childhood, has been able to see energy, which has been a tremendous advantage in her field. But she can see the aura. She can see the meridians. She can see the chakra. She sees it just like you see me. And she would be able to look at this infant and Tell the parents whether they we're going to have a kinesthetic or a tonal or digital or visual. And the way she could see it is each of these ways of understanding the world has its own energetic. It has its own energetic. So it's like there are four columns in the aura. The aura is now that we have the scientific instruments to measure it, it's called the biofield. But that biofield has these four columns. And whichever one is closest to your body, the one that's closest to your body is the one that you will trust the most. And it's for different people. They're in different places. So if the visual is the closest to your body, that's where you go under strength stress. That's what you trust when you're in that situation, the second one is your secondary. And usually if it's just normal problem solving, you're not particularly under a lot of stress. You'll relate. You'll use both of them. And if the situation calls for it, you plug into one of the other Forbes. So we have all four, but under stress, that's where we go. So we realized that, gee, if Donna can see that at birth, and then we've been doing it long enough that by the time the baby is a teenager, we can find out if Donna's prediction was correct. And it always was. We realize, okay, so this is either genetic or it's learned in the womb. And you can see how that could happen because in the first trimester, it's all kinesthetic, it's all feeling. That's the only way that the embryo knows about the world. There is no past or future. There's only the now. There is no in and out. There's no nothing except for the present moment. And so if mom is feeling happy and the nutrients are in good supply, the universe is a good place. But if mom is sad or scared or the nutrients aren't there, the universe is a bad place. But then mom smiles, and the universe is a good place again. It's always in the now. That's all there is. There is no other kind of. Thank you. There is no other kind of information coming in. But at 16 weeks, the auditory system has developed enough that the embryo will respond to different kinds of sounds in the environment by 24 weeks. The embryo is now starting to scan for sounds. There's what's called the sound carpet. The sound carpet is the sounds of the mother's heartbeat, of the breathing, of the digestion. That's kind of a constant. And the Baby is scanning for the mother's voice. The mother's voice is the first form of communication. It's the first form of bonding. The mother's voice. Now. So now you have not just one way of knowing the world, but you have a second way of knowing the world. You have sound and feeling. So now if the mother has indigestion, the world is a bad place. But the mother is singing a lullaby. Which do you trust? How do you negotiate and navigate these two opposite kinds of information? So welcome to the world of interpersonal relationships, little one. After birth, the other two modes get developed. After birth, in the last trimester, the embryo will respond to light coming in from the outside. But at birth, it can see. Maybe the infant can see 8 to 16 inches, but it's fuzzy, but it quickly becomes clearer. And that becomes a third way of really understanding the world. So now there's. There's feeling, there's sound, and there's vision. Eventually, symbols begin to be the way that the baby understands the world. So there's a symbol for food, there's a symbol for warmth, There's a symbol for cold. And then those symbols grow into words, and those words then become a way to understand how to do things, how to make changes, how to plan for the future, how to understand the past. And for some people, that becomes their primary way of knowing. So you have these four modes. But it's interesting to note that when Donna was checking these infants, these newborns, the. The visual and the digital had not developed yet. Yet she was able to see it. So that's why we believe that this is actually coded in before birth. Okay, so what's challenging for us, for all of us in relationship, is that when we're in our primary mode and the other three go out, we lose perspective, we lose the context. And so it's like the parable of the blind man and the elephant. You know that parable where they bring a blind man to an elephant to his side, and ask him what it is, and he says, it's a wall. And they bring another one to the trunk, and he says, it's a hose. They bring another one to the leg, and he says, it's a tree. They bring another one to the tail, he says, it's a snake. Now, no one has explained in the parable why these gentlemen had such poor olfactory senses, but you get the point. So when the other modes go out, you really lose that. So Donna's going to talk to us about each of the four modes now. So you get a Little bit better sense. And you probably won't be able to identify your own, but your partner will be able to identify it.

[A]

Here, you need some, some water.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

You're a wonderful audience. By the way. I like your energy. Okay, I'm going to talk about the four different types. And the visual, as David was saying, sees. So the visual sees exactly what you're doing wrong. They see very well. Now in their mind, they're not even blaming the partner may feel like they're being blamed, but for the visual is they get the picture and they know your life will be much better if you just take their advice because they can see what needs to happen here and what you could do better. And in life they are often leaders. They are leaders because they do have a vision of where to go and they. I think it actually could hurt if you don't, if you don't follow their lead here. Especially if they know the way. They know the way and you obviously don't. Now visuals keep eye contact. They like to look you straight in the eye. And other people who aren't looking back in your eyes may feel. What's the word? Evasive. Evasive to them because it's like you need to keep eye contact. But if you're not a visual, it will be hard to keep eye contact. What else? Hop in, David.

[B]

So what happens energetically with the visual is that under stress, the energy concentrates in the eyes, in the head and in the chest. And it goes outward. It goes outward. So that energy is hitting you. That energy is hitting you when they're under stress. And it has with it not just an energy, but it has an idea. And that idea is the way the visual, who is a visionary when balanced, that vision is of how you're supposed to be. And if you're not doing what the vision suggests you should be doing, as far as the visual is concerned, they are very kindly explaining to you what you're doing wrong. And that feels like blame. But to the visual, they're just giving you their gift because that's within that narrow perspective. So perspective is their strength and perspective is what they lose. And in terms the visuals motto is you're wrong.

[A]

Yes. So they're not really looking at themselves real well. They're looking at you and seeing what you're doing wrong. So the next one is a. David, I want to say before we go on, David is secondarily a visual. Okay. So we can get a picture of what I've gone through. The next one is a kinesthetic and that's me. And kinesthetics feel, you know, they feel. Sometimes they feel way too much. They are way too compassionate. So enable other people or the partner to do things. You know, they don't. They don't call them on their stuff. They just. It just. They're hurting for you. And they don't want anybody to be excluded. They want to include everybody here. I mean, gosh, when I was young, I said yes to two people who asked me to marry them, but I didn't want to marry them. But I couldn't bear for them to have their feelings hurt. So it's. So it's been tough. I think they're way over compassionate. And when I had my practice for 20 years and just working energetically on people's bodies, and, gosh, I lived in a small town, and if somebody saw me on the street and said, oh, Donna, I've been trying to get an appointment with you, could I have it this Friday? I said, oh, absolutely, yes. And then I'd go back to my office and see somebody was in that time. But I am so in the now. Kinesthetics are in the now. It's not about the past. It's not about the future. It's right now. And it felt really good to work with this person. So I've gotten into trouble. Gosh, I should say another thing. This is probably. I don't know if this is right to tell. I will.

[B]

So energetically, what happens with the kinesthetic is very different from the visual. The visual is sending the energy out. The kinesthetic is taking energy in. The kinesthetic will take energy in from the partner. And the instinct is to make the partner feel better. That's what they want to do. So they're taking in all this energy, and it's kind of overwhelming, but they're trying to make sense of things and what they know from their heart, because a lot of the energy concentrates in their heart is that they are very compassionate. They want to help the partner feel better. So their needs, their story goes out the window. So when Donna says yes to these men who wanted to marry her, it was just. It was not lying to them to say yes. It was just in the now. She didn't want to hurt their feelings. And that's a little disorienting in a relationship.

[A]

You know, the thing is, kinesthetics want to say yes. It feels really good to say yes. And you love what it does for other people, but it's not so that those people will like You. That isn't it. It just feels good to say yes. And it. And you don't know that well, you stupid girl. Why did you say yes? You don't think that way.

[B]

It's not just. It feels good. It's like you are driven to help them feel better. You just. I mean, it's amazing the lengths you will go if our organization makes somebody feel bad. You know, we didn't give them a refund when they canceled 18 times in a row. And Donna will call them and say, I'm so sorry we hurt you. And it's just, it's. Anyway,

[A]

I will tell you something. This is the part that I was going to say before, and I'm not. I don't think I've ever told this to an audience before. But when I had my. I finally hired somebody, by the way, to take care of my appointments because I couldn't do it right. But. But she started noticing that people really wanted me when I was premenstrual. Because at that time I was very psychic. I was beyond intuitive. That was a time where every. I got everything, you know, and so they wanted appointments then. And I. And it was the one time of the month that I probably should not have said yes. That's the time I really ought to be taking care of myself. But I never did.

[B]

And so, yeah, I finally built her a moon hut.

[A]

She did. He built me a moon hut. Now, is that a guy? Is that something?

[B]

It was self protection.

[A]

Okay, I'm gonna go on.

[B]

So for the kinesthetic, the motto is, I don't want you to feel wrong.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. I don't want. And I don't want you to hurt. And. Yeah. So. All right, the next type is a. I'm gonna talk about you, David. A digital. A digital is like. David, he is amazing. I mean, we've gotten where our energies. I mean, it's easy now. It's so easy. But he is somebody who goes up in his head when he gets stressed out. That's why he always won every argument, because he just got more rational, calm, cool, collected. And I think I really threw him off when I would start to cry, which I did. And say some more about yourself, David.

[B]

Well, the energy for the digital is all in the head. It's in the head. And so the heart, the gut, that information, when it's under stress, that information does not get registered. Whatever's going on there, you don't know about. All you know is that this amazing drama is going on in your head where the back brain is sending instincts to the front brain. The front brain is so good with language that it will translate those instincts into whatever you believe they should be. And you are. You know, it doesn't bother you like, the partner's feelings and please. And whatever just kind of bounce off like a rubber band against the wall? Because it's not that you're trying to dismiss them. That's not what it is. It's that you know that eventually they are going to come around and see the logic of your ways. So it doesn't matter what they think right now,

[A]

which is really nuts, because the last thing that I'm connected to is logic, you know, so it was amazing. It's amazing we survived, right?

[B]

As. As a kinesthetic, what happens energetically is the energy does leave the brain. It goes into the body, into the heart, so that thinking is not their strong suit when they're under stress.

[A]

Okay. Anything else? Okay. And so tonal. So the next is a tonal, huh? What? The motto is I don't want you.

[B]

Of the motto.

[A]

I don't want you.

[B]

The motto of the digital.

[A]

No, no. Oh, the digital. Yes.

[B]

Yeah. The motto of the digital is I'm right. So. So my. My. My first two are perfect. I'm right. You're wrong. Let's argue.

[A]

It was. Yeah, it was really tough in those days, but okay, the next one. And I think many of you may recognize this in yourself or your partner. Tonals. Tonals in some ways have the best and worst of the whole world, but they do have the best. But they have the worst, too, because. And of each other. Tonals. Tonals need to be heard. They have to be heard because. And if they're not. And they might not be hearing you at all because they're gone inside. Are you walking away? Okay.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Tonals, not only they're phenomenal hearers, they can hear. I always think as a kinesthetic, they. If I need a therapist, I'm probably going to go to a tonal because they'll hear what I can't say any longer because I lose my words. And so if I'm very stressed out. Yeah, there are no words to say, but the tonal still can hear it. The tonal is picking up what I mean to say or try to say. The tonal will get it. And so they are amazing therapists. They're all so often artists because they're really into the. What is it? What is it?

[B]

Aesthetics.

[A]

Aesthetics and music and things like that. What is hard is that a tonal, like they so need you to hear them. But if they don't think you are, they'll be inside themselves not hearing you. So there. It's really. Yeah. And they. They hear what you've never said, they hear what you never meant to say. They're picking everything up wrong. Now, if they're really stressed out and

[B]

so energetically, what happens with the tonal is unique from the other three. The tonal is getting. The energy is building between their ears and also in the areas involved with emotion. And what's happening between their ears is they do have this incredibly refined ability to hear nuance. They hear nuance, and it's a great strength in their aesthetic sensibilities. They are the best artists, the best therapists. For some people at least, they're really, really good at those kinds of activities, Some of the highest forms of human expression. But when they are under relationship stress, what happens is that they are getting the nuances, but the nuances are distorted because remember the elephant, and you lose the context. So it's distorted and it actually gets to the point where they can't distinguish between what their partner is saying and what their partner's words are triggering in them. So it all becomes one cacophony in their minds. And they hate these arguments. We all hate these arguments. But tonals really hate them. So tonals will withdraw. They will withdraw and they will be sure that you rejected them when that

[A]

wasn't always going on. Actually, the ones who might withdraw, even though what they feel is that you've rejected them, you know, when it's not true.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And tonals live more in the past, so they are triggered by stuff that comes up from their past while in the present moment. And.

[B]

Yeah, so the motto for the tonal is, I'm mad at you for making me feel wrong. I'm mad at you for making me feel wrong. Now, each of now, you said that they live in the past. Each of the types has a kind of a time that they are more oriented towards. So the visual is more oriented towards the future. The tonal is more oriented towards the past. The kinesthetic is oriented towards the now. That's all that exists. And the digital can go to the past, the present or the future without experiencing any of them. Because we're in our head.

[A]

So should we get a couple more?

[B]

Yeah. So what we want to do is we want to show you the critical piece that we have to teach is that when you or your partner is in that zone, when you're in that zone where, you know, this argument is not going to go well. That you invoke a pact. That you invoke a pact. And that pact is that it is more important for you right now to stop the argument. And I know that lots of different therapists and couple therapists talk about this that you have to stop. But what they do is they don't give you a way to get out of your primary mode. So you separate and you're just rehearsing what you're going to say next. You don't, you know, even relaxation techniques, all the techniques that are used don't work when you're under stress right when you need them. Have you had that experience that you, you know these great techniques? It makes sense to say your do you means. But when you're under this kind of stress, it's not going to work unless you can energetically shift. And so the pact is that you have agreed in advance when you're in a good place like here, that you've agreed that. And those of you that are single, this is really handy tools for when you are in a relationship and understanding your style and the style of potential partners. But when you are in this stress space that you agree that you will do something different. And the something different is what we call the star pack. And star stands for stop, tap, attune and resolve. And you'll see that you in your cell phones get. We have a 24 page handout that we have given you and it's more than we, we knew. It was more than we could teach tonight, but it will lay out that star pack. So what we're going to focus on is the first two parts, the stop and then the tap, which is not just tapping, it's. Remember the four, four thumps that Donna taught you? That's what you do first. But then you use some of the other energy exercises that we're going to teach you. Because what they do is they take you out of that stress mode. They get all four senses back into motion so that you see the whole elephant of reality rather than just the wall or the tail or whatever. So, so that's what we want you to do. We're going to start by bringing up a couple and we'll sort of show you. We'll demonstrate the energy test. We'll demonstrate the energy test.

[A]

Okay, you want to come up? You too. Okay, let me just see where you start. Okay. I'm gonna just energy test you. Oh. Gotta get you a little bit stronger. Okay. And let me check you out. You're very strong. Okay. So yeah, well, let's see. Let me just see what this does. Tapping on your K27s. The 27th point on kidney meridian. Yeah, yeah, that was what you needed. So what we're going to do is. You want to talk about what they're going to do or shall I talk it?

[B]

You do.

[A]

Okay, what we're going to have them do is you're going to face each other. Oh, let's see. David, we're not going to actually have them argue, are we?

[B]

No, no, no. What you're going to do is you're going to test each individually.

[A]

This is what we're going to do. I'm going to test each of you on which. Which one of those four types you are, and then we'll tell you how you argue. Okay. So I would do you first. Okay. You just hold your arm real strong. First thing I want you to do is just look me straight in the eyes. Okay. Not a visual. Look straight down the body, not a kinesthetic. Look that way, tonal. Look up that way to be sure. Yeah. So, I mean, you look in the direction, you actually find yourself looking the direction when you're arguing to get yourself back. Does that make sense? Yes. Okay, now let's. How about you?

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Hold your arm real strong like me. Straight in the eye. Oh, my God, he gets stronger. Much stronger. Are you a visual? Oh, okay. Okay, we'll go through all four of them. Okay, look that way. Tonal kinesthetic. Oh, he's strong on digital, too. Let's see which way? Look straight in the eye. No, that way.

[B]

Have him think about us.

[A]

Okay. Think of a stress with her, a time, an argument.

[B]

Like being on stage. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

You don't have to tell about it. Just think about it. Okay. Something really stressful and let me straighten the eyes. Actually, I knew by the way his eyeballs went. His eyeballs looked over. Well, look. Look that way as digital. A thousand percent. Yeah. 1,000%. Yes. Yes. Okay, David.

[B]

Yeah. So we'll just make some predictions about how you do argue. Okay. So when it gets tough, you want to be heard. You want to be heard, and that's kind of what you don't feel is quite happening in this. Okay. Now you are certain that you didn't say what you heard, And the more that you explain, the worse it gets. Yeah, yeah. It's hard too. I know it. Because we digitals are really. I mean, deep down we're very kind, but it doesn't feel that way. It feels like we are just pushing you away.

[A]

Disconnected and disconnected from you. And I mean, it just doesn't even feel like they're there. You were talking earlier. It was like. It was like your head is disconnected from your. Yes, yes. We were talking earlier. And I said when you get in that state, it's like your head is completely detached from your entire body, your whole body from here. Feel nothing. Yeah, yeah, I know.

[B]

And to make it worse, I. I would imagine that things from your past come up and kind of come intrude into the present.

[A]

It doesn't necessarily have to be something that you remember. It's just that that if you've been traumatized or hurt in the past, it does feed into. You don't even have to have a memory of it. It's just part of what is there,

[B]

which for you is confusing because what did this have to do with this argument? Okay. Okay. So thank you very much for having the courage to come up here. Okay, so when. When you are in this stress mode, the first thing that you can do is that one of you invokes the pact. One of you says, let's do the pact. And that is an affirmation of your relationship that is saying, our connection is more important to me right now than me being right. Our connection is what matters. And so an easy way to do that is once you say, let's do the pact. You take a breath, you face one another, and I go ahead and do this with us.

[A]

You know, I know people who will do this without saying anything like that. We're not saying we're going to do this.

[B]

You're not saying.

[A]

They just start tapping with each other.

[B]

You're not saying anything. Yeah. So now that starts to get your energy into alignment. And there are literally dozens of energy medicine exercises that you could do at this point. And we're going to teach you just a few of our favorites, a few of the most powerful ones. So you stop, you do the tapping. And then.

[A]

Okay, this is really valuable. I want to show it on somebody. Can I just pick somebody who I think needs it right now? You want to come up? You smell so good. Okay, now I'm going to show you something. I'll stand back behind you. You hold your arm real strong. Don't let me push down. Now I'm going to do something very simple. I'm just going to smash your nose a little bit. And you see one finger. Now, what that means is there's a meridian that runs up the back of her body called governing. It goes over the top of her head and then over the nose and connects at the back of the throat with another one that goes up the front. Now, she's not connected up, and we're going to fix her. But if you just put your middle finger in your belly button and your other one at the third eye, push them in and pull them both up. This is one of the best things you can do. I can tell you so many things that this will do for you, because it hooks up central and governing the two most important meridians that affect all meridians. And it creates something called a microcosmic orbit that goes around your body and makes your aura strong. You're more protected and. And your brain will work better. And if you ever. If you know anybody who goes into a seizure, immediately put one finger in their belly button, one here, and they'll come out of the seizure. I mean, it's. It connects up everything that's so important. Okay, now watch you. Let's see. You can take it away, but when

[B]

you're in relationships distress, you need this one.

[A]

I'm going to smash your nose really hard this time. And you. All right, King, you can do it a little bit longer because I want you stronger than that.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

Yeah. It's so important. It's so important. I think you got it. Let's see. Boing. Yeah. That is so good. It's so good and so easy. If I'm ever in a crowd of people and I'm picking up too much information, too much energy, I will do this just to come back to myself. And it creates a field around me that is just. I don't know, it's just really good. Or if I lose my words, I'll do this, and I get my words back. And I also will just bring my hands to my heart chakra and hold it. Okay. All right, you may go. Sometimes these things are really valuable to do. If you're feeling the onslaught from the other person, you know, of a different sensory system, like, okay, I'm going to tell you something that's good for a kinesthetic right now. Then you tell me something that's good for a digital. For a kinesthetic. If you want a yes from them, if you want something from them, give them time, because they will instantly say yes. They often. I'm not instantly, but they usually try to give you a yes, but it might not be true, and it might really inconvenient you. If she finds out later that, oh, my God, I can't say yes to that. So just take away all the pressure. I'll tell you something. And this is a little bit different, but I remember when I was a little child and the teacher had stepped out of the room. I think I must have been in the second grade. And the teacher stepped out of the room and the whole room went wild. And somebody swung on something and it broke. And when the teacher stepped back in, the teacher wanted me to say, what happened? What happened? Well, I couldn't. I mean, I was just. I couldn't talk. I couldn't even remember, did I do it? I couldn't remember. And a few times growing up, I couldn't remember if I was the one who did it. Because as a kinesthetic, you're just feeling it all. You're feeling it all. Does that make any. Is there any other kinesthetics out there? Yeah. You know. Yeah. Yes, yes. And is it digital, David?

[B]

So what? Repeat the exercise?

[A]

What exercise did I give.

[B]

What do you do as a kinesthetic?

[A]

I do. I hook myself up. I hook myself up and come home to myself. There's another one. If I've got too much energy in me, I might do Connect heaven and Earth.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Let me just say you asked what I can do as a digital, very simple meditation. And do this with me. Notice breath, soften belly, open heart.

[A]

Do you understand that helps him get out of his head and go just into his body.

[B]

Yeah, and it's good. A lot more exercises are in the handout that is. That you'd be able to download. But in closing, we're just going to do one of our favorite, which is called Heaven Rushing In.

[A]

Okay? I want everybody on your feet. And this is an exercise that I love to do. I love to do it outside, but you're gonna pretend that this ceiling is gonna evaporate. Okay? And when you're lost and you don't know what to do, maybe you've taken that time away from your partner and you just. Okay, you just gotta rub your hands together and shake them off. And put your hands on your thighs and take a deep breath in through your nose and out through your mouth. Now bring your hands together in a kind of prayerful position. Now you're open up all the way to the heavens and you're just going to look up and bask in heaven's glow. You're just going to receive, you know, whatever energies you are needing right now. You know, whether it's healing or love or forgiveness or whatever you need, you're just going to take it in and you're going to hang out here as long as you want, but you might start feeling energy on your hands. And when you do, you're going to scoop it up and put it in the middle of your heart chakra. There's a vortex there called heaven rushing in. And heaven rushes in with healing and answers and love and forgiveness and everything that you need. And if you feel like you didn't get enough, you go back and get more. You just get all that you need, and then one more time, into your heart chakra. Amen. Thank you, everybody. The Tony Robbins Podcast is inspired and directed by Tony Robbins and his teachings. It's produced by US Team Tony, copyright Robbins Research International.