Apple’s ‘F1’ Win and Big Tech’s Streaming vs. Theaters Debate

Summary

Podcast Summary: Apple’s ‘F1’ Win and Big Tech’s Streaming vs. Theaters Debate

Podcast Information:

• Title: The Town with Matthew Belloni
• Host: Matthew Belloni (The Ringer)
• Episode: Apple’s ‘F1’ Win and Big Tech’s Streaming vs. Theaters Debate
• Release Date: June 30, 2025

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1. Introduction

In this episode of The Town with Matthew Belloni, host Matt Belloni delves into the recent box office performance of Apple's theatrical release, F1, and explores the broader debate between streaming giants and traditional theaters. Joined by Lucas Shaw from Bloomberg and Craig Horobeck, the discussion navigates through Apple's strategic positioning in the film industry, comparisons with other streaming services, and the implications for future movie releases.

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2. Apple’s F1 Box Office Performance

The episode opens with an analysis of Apple's F1, which surpassed expectations by grossing $55 million domestically and $144 million worldwide during its opening weekend. Despite being deemed an "original story" in a niche racing league, F1 managed to outperform sequels like Megan 2.0.

Key Points:

• Budget vs. Revenue: While F1 reportedly cost around $250 million (with Apple suggesting a lower figure), its box office returns indicate a solid performance relative to its high budget.

  Matt Belloni [04:48]: "Actually, it's not a hit. We have to judge all of these movies based on their performance in theaters and then they have the afterlife on the service."

• Perception as a Win: Lucas Shaw emphasizes that while F1 may not be a traditional "hit," its performance boosts Apple's reputation in the cinematic landscape.

  Lucas Shaw [05:37]: "I think the biggest reason that I sort of called it a win for them is it perception-wise. It has like good mojo in culture."

• Critical Reception: The film received favorable reviews and maintained strong international performance, contributing to its status as a success for Apple.

  Lucas Shaw [06:17]: "They wanted to get their money back on the theatrical release. You can get some benefit from it on streaming."

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3. Streaming Giants vs. Traditional Theaters

The discussion transitions into how major streaming services like Apple, Amazon, and Netflix are navigating their relationships with traditional theaters amidst evolving consumer habits.

Key Points:

• Apple’s Theater Strategy: Apple has recently scaled back its theatrical releases, holding off after F1 to evaluate future projects based on its performance.

  Matt Belloni [07:03]: "I think it was wait and see, I believe. And what they are going to do is they're going to evaluate every movie against this movie."

• Amazon’s Theatrical Push: Unlike Apple, Amazon remains committed to releasing films in theaters, with 14 movies scheduled for theatrical release the following year, signaling a robust investment in cinemas.

  Lucas Shaw [15:01]: "Amazon has 14 movies scheduled for release. I mean, it's a little unfair to judge the Amazon theatrical push because until now it really has been one-offs."

• Netflix’s Reluctance: Netflix continues to distance itself from theatrical commitments, focusing more on streaming-exclusive releases and experimental content that resembles social media formats.

  Lucas Shaw [14:35]: "Ted Sarando says that the audience has moved on from theaters."

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4. Future Plans for Apple in Theatrical Releases

Analyzing Apple's future in the film industry, the conversation highlights potential shifts based on the success of F1 and the company's cautious approach towards high-budget theatrical projects.

Key Points:

• Distribution Strategy: Apple currently relies on partnerships with established studios like Warner Brothers for distribution but is contemplating building its own distribution arm.

  Matt Belloni [16:01]: "If they start hiring in that area, then I think we'll know they're serious."

• Executive Leadership: Apple's lack of seasoned film executives may influence its strategic decisions regarding theatrical releases and overall film production.

  Matt Belloni [16:41]: "They don't have a veteran film executive running. Even in the press release touting their success this weekend, it was Zach and Jamie that were quoted, not the head of their film group, Matt Dentler."

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5. Blumhouse’s Megan 2.0 Underperformance

Shifting focus, the podcast addresses the disappointing performance of Blumhouse’s Megan 2.0, which opened to $10 million domestically—significantly lower than its predecessor’s $30 million.

Key Points:

• Box Office Decline: The sequel failed to replicate the first film’s success, grossing only $10 million compared to the original's robust performance.

  Matt Belloni [21:09]: "Megan 2.0, 10 million opening. First one open to 30 million and grossed 180 million worldwide."

• Possible Reasons: The underperformance is attributed to factors such as unfavorable release dates, market saturation of horror films, and diminished cultural buzz.

  Craig Horobeck [22:40]: "With Megan? I feel like the reason why it underperformed is it came out in June and there's a million other good movies out."

• Impact on Franchise: Despite positive reviews and higher cinema scores compared to the first movie, Megan 2.0's failure raises concerns about the longevity of the franchise.

  Lucas Shaw [22:04]: "It's very unusual to see three or four Blumhouse movies in a row underperform, don't you think?"

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6. Additional Insights

Beyond the main topics, the episode touches on other noteworthy events in Hollywood:

• Jeff Bezos and Lauren Sánchez’s Wedding: Attended by celebrities like Tom Brady and Oprah, the wedding in Venice was described as "magical" yet discreet.

  Craig Horobeck [26:36]: "I think Oprah was. You could see the disappointment on her own face."

• James Bond Director Announcement: Denis Villeneuve was named as the new James Bond director, a surprising yet welcomed choice given his visionary approach.

  Matt Belloni [27:00]: "Denis has a very specific style to him and it'll be fascinating to see how that translates to Bond."

• Netflix’s Poop Cruise Documentary: Highlighting Netflix’s trend towards sensational, low-budget documentaries that dominate streaming charts despite lacking traditional prestige.

  Matt Belloni [29:12]: "These are a reality show version of a documentary and that is what people like to watch on Netflix."

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7. Conclusion

The episode concludes by summarizing the critical points discussed, emphasizing the precarious balance Apple maintains between theatrical success and streaming expansion. With F1 setting a benchmark, Apple's future endeavors in cinema remain cautiously optimistic. Meanwhile, the struggles of Blumhouse and the strategic maneuvers of other streaming giants like Amazon and Netflix paint a complex picture of the evolving entertainment landscape.

Closing Remarks:

Matt Belloni [31:37]: "Another episode you missed is we talked about whether Netflix is going to start do more, doing more YouTube style content and in some ways they already are."

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This comprehensive analysis provides listeners with an in-depth understanding of Apple's position in the film industry, the dynamics between streaming services and traditional theaters, and the broader implications for Hollywood’s future.

Transcript

[Matt Bellany]

If you care about Hollywood, and I assume you do, if you're listening to the Town, you should really be getting the whole story about Hollywood. That's what you get with Puck. I'm a founding partner Puck and I write a newsletter called what I'm Hearing. It's got exclusive news for insiders and analysis of the biggest stories. Puck has a bunch of great journalists. We just hired Kim Masters who also covers Hollywood from the inside, plus media, sports, fashion, politics and finance. It's a must have for plugged in people. Fans of the Town get a discount on the description page of this episode or at Puck News thetown. Go further into Hollywood by becoming a Puck member Today. This episode of the Town is presented by Max. For your consideration, Max presents the HBO original Mountainhead from the creator of Succession. Mountainhead stars Steve Carell, Jason Schwartzman, Cory Michael Smith and Ramy Youssef as four rival tech billionaires gather for their annual mountain retreat. But when one of their AI platforms sparks a global crisis, their boys weekend spirals into chaos. The future of humanity may be a game to them, but billions of lives are on the table. Emmy eligible for Outstanding Television Movie and all other categories now streaming on Max the Town is supported by FX's say Nothing, now nominated for four BAFTA TV awards. Based on the book by Patrick Radden Keefe, the Peabody Award nominee is a story of murder and memory in Northern Ireland during the Troubles. Following Dolores and Marion Price, it explores the extremes some people will go to in the name of their beliefs and how a deeply divided society can suddenly tip over into armed conflict. Time calls say Nothing exceptional an urgently timely work of political art. All episodes streaming on Hulu. It is Monday, June 30. On paper, this past weekend would have been an easy one to call in advance. Big budget star driven car racing movie that's an original story and not a sequel or prequel or based on anything other than a racing league that isn't very popular in this country versus a sequel to one of the biggest and most well received horror hits of a couple years ago. Yet the box office for F1 exceeded its low expectations with 55 million domestic and 144 million worldwide. We'll get into whether that's good or just so so for Apple, which produced the film and paid Warner Brothers to release it. But the number for Megan 2.0 was pretty clear. 10 million domestic, way down from the 30 million opening weekend for the first Megan. A disaster for Universal and Blumhouse, which thought they had a long running franchise here. So how did this happen and more importantly, what does it mean going forward? Apple, obviously the most interesting narrative here. The company has now released five movies theatrically and F1 is by far its biggest. And if it continues to overperform, it'll be the only real hit the company has released in theaters. But it also cost a ton. 250 million by most credible estimates. Apple says it's lower. But starting with Wolf's last year, Apple has pulled back from theaters. It has exactly zero movies committed to wide release right now. So what's the plan going forward? That's what we're going to talk about today with Lucas Shaw, our Monday guy. Do a little on the Megan 2.0 debacle and what happened there. But mostly it's F1 Apple and the next steps for its movies. After a promising start from the ringer and Puck. I'm Matt Bellany and this is the town. We are here with Lucas Shaw from Bloomberg. Welcome back, Lucas.

[Lucas Shaw]

Neither one of us is in Los Angeles, but we're still allowed to talk about Hollywood, right?

[Matt Bellany]

Is that acceptable? Exactly. We're not doing our meetings. We're not doing our events yet. We still have opinions and still have reporting. I saw your take on the performance of F1, and you are the quintessential but actually guy, you love to say, but actually this was not a hit or let's do a little chat.

[Lucas Shaw]

That's not what I said. I said it's a win.

[Matt Bellany]

I know. That's why I was surprised you called F1A a win. Let's discuss why you called F1 a win.

[Lucas Shaw]

It's a win for perception. Oh, so you think I'm a butt? Actually, Guy, because I'm glass half, sort of glass half full. I'm like, I see. I thought you were going to go the way. No, no, no.

[Matt Bellany]

You're a glass half empty guy, typically. And you like to call out the over enthusiasm that people have. I remember like when. When Killers of the Flower Moon came out and I think a couple of the trades called it a hit even though it opened wasn't $23 million. And everyone's like, well, this is a hit for Apple. It's like, well, wait a second. Actually, it's not a hit. We have to judge all of these movies based on their performance in theaters and then they have the afterlife on the service. But you can't just single out Apple as being the only one where it only matters what they do on the service.

[Lucas Shaw]

I wrestled a lot with how to characterize the performance of this movie because I think if this movie were released by by most other studios, it would not be considered a hit.

[Matt Bellany]

I'm going to give you a comp here. There's a movie that was released recently year or two ago by Warner Brothers and it grossed $55 million in its opening weekend and it cost about 250 by most estimates. Guess what movie that was.

[Lucas Shaw]

This is one of the DC movies. It's either going to be Joker 2 or Aquaman.

[Matt Bellany]

It was the Flash.

[Lucas Shaw]

The Flash. Okay. New.

[Matt Bellany]

A movie that was pretty instantly decried as a bomb and you and I both pounced on it. Others did as well. Yet you call the Apple F1 movie with a similar budget and exact opening a hit.

[Lucas Shaw]

So important to note. I think I called it a win, not a hit.

[Matt Bellany]

You did call it a win, not a hit.

[Lucas Shaw]

The other thing is this one has good reviews. It's going to have legs. It's doing very well internationally. The Flash I just looked up netted out at about 270 globally. That's a disaster. Right? This movie is probably going to end up between 5 and 600 million. Feels like is probably where it may be a little shy of that, but that feels like where it lands.

[Matt Bellany]

Yeah, that is, I think optimistic. But sure, let's go with it.

[Lucas Shaw]

Okay. Between four and six.

[Matt Bellany]

Sure.

[Lucas Shaw]

I have a bet with my colleague. I'm on the under on the 500. He's on the oversight.

[Matt Bellany]

Oh, I would take the over on 500 at this point. Maybe not pre release, but yeah, that's.

[Lucas Shaw]

Why I think it's gonna get north of 500, which is solid, not spectacular. But if you're Apple, you're gonna get your money back on the theatrical release. You can get some benefit from it on streaming. But I think the biggest reason that I sort of called it a win for them is it perception wise. It has like good mojo in culture. And it is being covered not just by the trades that are more likely to be generous, but even by mainstream media outlets as a good result.

[Matt Bellany]

Yeah, Apple movie and hit are all in the same headline around the world. And that's what they want. Yes.

[Lucas Shaw]

In the New York Times or the wherever it is. And that's what they want. Because for Apple, as much as they don't like dealing with the press is incredibly sensitive to how they are covered in the press.

[Matt Bellany]

Well, that's why they've abandoned theaters. We know that. I mean they, they had five. This is now their fifth movie in theaters after the first four. They're like, you know what? We may have all the money in the world. But we don't like being associated with bombs. We don't want these movies to come out in theaters if they're not gonna do well. And they looked at Wolves, they said this is not a good movie. Let's just pull it.

[Lucas Shaw]

Yeah.

[Matt Bellany]

And they haven't been back until now.

[Lucas Shaw]

They have not had a major theatrical release in more than a year. And that's why going into this movie, both you and I have talked to a lot of people about the concern that this would essentially be the last movie that Apple released like this. Now I think they have some provisions in other movies that they've agreed to make. So it probably was never going to be the last one. But there was a lot of concern and confusion as to whether Apple would continue to spend 200 plus million dollars and put movies in theaters. And the budget for this one, I think is north of what has been publicly reported for the most part.

[Matt Bellany]

Yeah. We don't have to get into the specifics. Apple is insisting 200 million. Most reporting has it about 250 from credible sources. I've heard as much as 300. Depends what they put into it. Do they put in the fact that they created a trailer that buzzes when, when you watch it on your phone? Do they put in the global press that some studios include in the budget, others do not? There's a whole science of this stuff. And I think that they were so, so concerned about the perception around this movie that they lowballed at 200 million, but it's much higher.

[Lucas Shaw]

Well, and they've gone through this with all of these big theatrical movies. Right. Killers of the Flower Moon everyone was saying was 250 million, 300 million. Apple again, I think, insisted it was two. Like they, they've had a lot of these movies, Napoleon that, that where people have said that they've spent well, more than 200 million and they've managed it down at least in the reporting to 2. Because they don't want, they don't want to be seen as though they're spending more than everyone else. They were sensitive on the TV side to that too.

[Matt Bellany]

Right.

[Lucas Shaw]

That Apple comes in and spends too much money and that's how they get these projects and that's why people love them. But given the much greater scrutiny on cost at that company, they don't need a bunch of stories out there saying that they've spent a billion dollars across like three or four movies.

[Matt Bellany]

Exactly. And now they have something that they can hang their hat on and feel good about. I saw it. It's good. It like very professionally done. The critics tend to like this movie.

[Lucas Shaw]

Well, it's a movie for adults. It's the first real adult movie of the summer.

[Matt Bellany]

No, but. But more importantly for Apple, it is a global movie and it is not offensive. It is exactly down the middle, inspirational sports movie, feels modern. F1 is a good brand for Apple to be associated with. It checks stock so many different boxes, Right.

[Lucas Shaw]

They've got stories with Lewis Hamilton, who's the greatest Formula one driver, at least of his generation, if not ever. He's a producer on the movie. He's doing press with Eddie Q. He's doing press with Tim Cook.

[Matt Bellany]

Yeah, if you can call a softball trade interview press. I mean, they put him there because they knew that it would not be a tough interview. And amazingly, Tim Cook and the leadership at Apple said almost nothing about their actual plans for theaters because I don't.

[Lucas Shaw]

Think they know their plans.

[Matt Bellany]

Well, do they? Or do they know that's what, that's the next part of this discussion. What does this mean for their plans? Do they know what they're doing and have just been coy or have they really been waiting to see how this movie does to determine whether other movies are going to get the full theatrical wide release or whether they're even going to make these kinds of movies?

[Lucas Shaw]

Well, I'm curious because I know my answer, but what is your answer to that question?

[Matt Bellany]

My answer to this question is it was wait and see, I believe. And what they are going to do is they're going to evaluate every movie against this movie and they're going to now say, is this the kind of movie that we can do F1 numbers, get F1 buzz and have F1 brand halo effect for Apple? If not, it's going to the service.

[Lucas Shaw]

Yeah, I think that's right. You got some mixed messaging. You know, Apple definitely had meetings and conversations with theater owners around Cinemacon and they are trying to communicate their interest in theaters. But if this one had been the reason I'm confident, or at least I believe it was wait and see is if this one had been a mess, I do think that they would have reassessed their strategy. And as we discussed, they already retreated a little bit over the last year. And now they, they have a measuring stick.

[Matt Bellany]

And I, I had Joe Kaczynski on my panel at Cinemacon and he said, you know, that he just sold or not just. But they have an a UFO movie at Apple with Jerry Bruckheimer.

[Lucas Shaw]

That one's got a theatrical Commitment, Right.

[Matt Bellany]

Yeah. That's the thing is, like, we took it to them because of the theatrical commitment. And that is an advantage that Apple has had over Netflix. Amazon is really dining out right now on the fact that they will give filmmakers both theaters and a global streaming service getting a lot of packages. And Apple had that as well. And if they aren't willing to do that, I think they do suffer. So they want at least the perception that you can get theaters at Apple.

[Lucas Shaw]

True. Do you know what the highest grossing Amazon movie is in theaters to date?

[Matt Bellany]

I think it was Red One. Right.

[Lucas Shaw]

You are correct. Still no Amazon movie has topped $200 million at the global box office.

[Matt Bellany]

Yeah. And that red one movie cost a fortune, so. But they also put it in on prime video like a month after it was released to get it in front of its audience before the holidays. So there was a. Your point is Amazon is not exactly lighting up the box office.

[Lucas Shaw]

My point is F1 is going to be the highest grossing movie released by a streaming service ever.

[Matt Bellany]

Oh, is that true? None of the Netflix ones. I guess you're right.

[Lucas Shaw]

Netflix doesn't commit to theaters enough for that to be true.

[Matt Bellany]

No, but I'm saying back when they at least did the cursory stuff like Knives out. Knives Out 2 only got a week. And yeah, you're right, because Killers, I.

[Lucas Shaw]

Believe, is the highest grossing Apple movie. And then Red One, both of them are like in the 200 million range. Yeah.

[Matt Bellany]

Red One is 185. And Killers of Flower Moon got to like 160. So that for a movie that costs like 250.

[Lucas Shaw]

So F1 is going to top Killers by this week.

[Matt Bellany]

Okay, so what's your point?

[Lucas Shaw]

You were talking about how these companies, Apple and Amazon, have dangled theatrical as a reason to work with them over Netflix, which I understand. Right. Because they do actually put their movies in theaters. But until F1, neither one of them had had a movie that one could consider like a bona fide theatrical hit. A moment. Which is part of what?

[Matt Bellany]

Part?

[Lucas Shaw]

Part of the reason that the filmmakers want it. Right. Because they feel like releasing a movie in theaters makes their projects more culturally relevant.

[Matt Bellany]

Right.

[Craig Horobeck]

Do you guys think this is now going to beget more tech companies to release movies in theaters? I mean, you had Netflix doing the Narnia thing with Greta Gerwig. You have a James Bondfield coming with Amazon.

[Lucas Shaw]

Netflix has been very consistent on where it stands on this issue.

[Matt Bellany]

They were over a barrel and had to do the Narnia deal. But.

[Craig Horobeck]

But what if that movie is A massive hit.

[Matt Bellany]

So what? Ted Sarando says that the audience has moved on from theaters.

[Lucas Shaw]

Look, if it's a massive hit next year, Netflix might have to think about what it wants to do with a couple projects. But there's not some big strategic shift happening there.

[Matt Bellany]

And Amazon has 14 movies scheduled for release. I mean, it's a little unfair to judge the Amazon theatrical push because until now it really has been one offs and the new regime there, Courtney Valenti, the whole team that she has, her.

[Lucas Shaw]

Slate is not out yet.

[Matt Bellany]

Right. And their big theatrical push is going to start next year and they have 14 movies scheduled for theaters, which is pretty significant commitment.

[Lucas Shaw]

That's more than a lot of the traditional studios.

[Matt Bellany]

Yeah, it is. And we'll see what the windows they get are. Because, you know, like with Red One, the theater owners were pissed when it went to the the service after a month in theaters. And if they do that consistently, I think the theater owners will push back on them. But there's a very clear hierarchy or strategic plan in motion now from the streamers. Netflix hates theaters. Amazon likes theaters. Amazon is gonna give you theatrical if you have that kind of movie. Apple, we don't know. I think one of the key points with Apple, which will be if they move forward with establishing their own distribution arm because they have been toying with doing their own distribution. They use studios for theatrical. They use Warner Brothers on F1.

[Lucas Shaw]

Amazon has built their own or is building their own. Yeah, it requires hiring a lot of people who have that expertise around the world.

[Matt Bellany]

And as we know, Apple has resisted hiring seasoned executives in all capabilities. On the film side, they don't have a veteran film executive running. Even in the press release touting their success this weekend, it was Zach and Jamie that were quoted, not the head of their film group, Matt Dentler. So it shows you that they want to be the perceived film executives at Apple and they don't really have the executive firepower to do theatrical in a significant way. And if they start hiring in that area, then I think we'll know they're serious.

[Lucas Shaw]

Distribution to me would be as big, if not a bigger sign than bringing in what you're talking about the more seasoned executive that some agents and lawyers and reps have pushed them to do.

[Matt Bellany]

Yeah, creative. Creative executives. But right now they have no commitments. I mean, it is telling. Interesting that they have movies that are slated for 26.

[Lucas Shaw]

Aren't they putting the Spike Lee movie out in theaters?

[Matt Bellany]

Barely. They're giving it like a week. And that is an A24 movie. A24 produced that in association with Apple. And that's like getting the late summer Labor Day, like, barely in theaters thing. But then next year, they have a Skydance movie. They have a bunch. They have a couple other movies that have not been given the releases that I think at this point, most studios would have already announced or decided because, as you know, with theatrical movies, you got to plan the campaigns in advance.

[Craig Horobeck]

The Spike Lee movie has two weeks of theatrical before moving to Apple tv.

[Matt Bellany]

But how many theaters?

[Lucas Shaw]

Yeah, that's not a huge movie.

[Matt Bellany]

It does have Denzel.

[Lucas Shaw]

It does. But it is a remake of a Kurosawa movie. It's. Yeah. I mean, look, it makes sense for Apple actually to pick and choose which movies belong in theaters if they're going to, because there are certain types of movies that they're making that probably wouldn't do very well in theaters. But yeah, it is strange that they have essentially nothing on the calendar going forward.

[Matt Bellany]

And we'll see. Maybe that announcement is coming. So Apple put out this annoying alert to all Apple pay users, including myself, giving everyone a $10 coupon via Fandango to see F1. I didn't see in a lot of the coverage whether people think that impacted the box office, but a lot of people use Apple Wallet $10 coupon. Meaningful for a lot of people. How much do you think the Apple push on this impacted the overall box office?

[Lucas Shaw]

Not that much.

[Matt Bellany]

No.

[Lucas Shaw]

I'm sure it helped, but it's like part of the marketing campaign.

[Matt Bellany]

Yeah, but other studios do not have the ability to spam a billion people in their pockets with a $10 coupon.

[Lucas Shaw]

I hear you. I think it's savvy on their part. It's the type of integration that people have been wondering when Apple would do. Right?

[Matt Bellany]

Yeah, I think it's a good idea. Trust me, I'm not criticizing.

[Lucas Shaw]

Why were there not F1 trailers playing in Apple stores all over the world, that sort of thing.

[Matt Bellany]

There probably were, and they led their developer conference with an F1 plug.

[Lucas Shaw]

But I just don't know that there are that many people who are gonna, on a whim, go, ooh, I got this $10. I'm gonna go see it right now.

[Matt Bellany]

I don't know. People like coupons.

[Lucas Shaw]

I think it helped. But making a movie is a considered decision. I don't think it might have been something that just added a little bit, you know, as the cherry on top of the sundae, as they say. But it wasn't the reason why they ordered the ice cream, the fruit first place.

[Matt Bellany]

Yeah. Maybe not, but when a movie over performs by about 10 million bucks like this one did, unfortunately for my under pick last week.

[Lucas Shaw]

But good for the box office draft for you.

[Matt Bellany]

Good for the box office draft. I should. I do have F1 in the box office draft, but yeah, I, I think it mattered. But not a huge amount, but it did matter. Fourth of July savings are here at the Home Depot.

[Lucas Shaw]

So it's time to get your grilling on. Pick up The Traeger Pro Series 22 Pellet Grill and Smoker now on special buy for $389 was $5.49. Smoke a rack of ribs or bacon apple pie.

[Matt Bellany]

This grill is versatile enough to do.

[Lucas Shaw]

It all this summer.

[Matt Bellany]

No matter how you like your steaks, your barbecues are guaranteed to be well done. Celebrate 4th of July with fast free.

[Lucas Shaw]

Delivery on select grills right now at the Home Depot.

[Matt Bellany]

It's up to.

[Lucas Shaw]

You know that one friend who somehow knows everything about money. Yeah. Now imagine they live in your phone. Say hey to Experian, your big financial friend. It's the app that helps you check your FICO score, find ways to save, and basically feel like a financial genius. And guess what? It's totally free. So go on, download the Experian app. Trust me, having a BFF like this is a total, total game changer. What's going on with your boy Blum?

[Matt Bellany]

My boy Blum, Jason Blum, friend of the town, has been on the show. Not great weekend for Blumhouse. Megan 2.0, 10 million opening. First one open to 30 million and grossed 180 million worldwide. The interesting thing on that, because listen, horror movies flop. You know, the. It happens. This one not only did well in theaters, but was pretty well reviewed. And the cinema score on Megan 2.0 is actually higher than the cinema score for the first one. The opening weekend audience survey. It's a B plus, which is pretty high for horror. And the first one got a B. So what was the problem on Megan 2.0? Was it the release date? Was it the marketing? Was it the movie itself? Was it that the first movie was a fluke of social media? What was what's going on here?

[Lucas Shaw]

The reason I asked what's going on with your. With your boy Blum is I would broaden it. He's had a couple of these already this year. The drop, that movie with Megan Fahey from April didn't do super well. His Wolfman movie didn't do that well.

[Matt Bellany]

And there was another one called the Woman in the Yard did not do well.

[Lucas Shaw]

Yeah, the one movie this year for the company that's worked was the one made by Atomic Monster, the James Wan label that they sort of merged with. And look, I would be shocked if Black Phone 2 and 5 Night at Freddy's 2 both also didn't do well. But it is very unusual to see three or four Blumhouse movies in a row. Underperform, don't you think?

[Craig Horobeck]

With Megan? I feel like the reason why it underperformed is it came out in June and there's a million other good movies out. I mean, the first one came out in January, which is a much sleepier time, a better time for horror.

[Lucas Shaw]

I also just think there's too. There's so much horror now. Right. It came out right after the 28 years later, which has done pretty well.

[Matt Bellany]

I do think the date was a problem. I mean they, they were bullish on it. They believed their own hype and they saw the numbers and said, we can compete in the summer. It's between two other Universal movies, between how to Train youn Dragon and Jurassic World, both of which are high priority big budget Universal movies. Maybe that was a factor. And I also think like you live and die by the algorithm these days. Megan caught the algorithm became a thing, those TikTok videos of her dancing and all of the buzz.

[Lucas Shaw]

And they tried to do it again this year and it just didn't seem like it. It hit culture in the same way.

[Matt Bellany]

Yeah. And listen, you can blame the movie. They tried to do a Terminator 2 thing and kind of flipped. Flipped the script a little. I haven't seen it. I did see the first one, but the CinemaScore kind of says a story there. People liked it, but they didn't see it. So not great if you've got a spin off coming next year called Soulmate. So yeah, that's a bummer. They thought this was going to be a franchise. These misses for Blumhouse. Yes, they're misses.

[Lucas Shaw]

But the movies cost very little. I get it. We're not talking about the. The Flash as we talked better.

[Matt Bellany]

Which is why those flops don't get covered as much, I think. Also Jason's very savvy about his relationships, but I think that because they don't cost so much, they don't get covered in the same way that some of these other movies do.

[Lucas Shaw]

Well, but if you remember the first half of last year. Right. It wasn't specific to him. We were having that conversation about what's going on with horror. There were a bunch of horror movies that even if they didn't cost that much. Didn't seem to be doing that well. And I think part of it is we've also now just because. And part of his success, every company, every studio other than like Disney has a horror strategy. And so there's just. They can't all be hits anymore. Right. The Final Destination sequel did great business. Right. You have some of these that are huge, but you have a bunch of them that don't work because there's just too many.

[Matt Bellany]

I don't think this is going to mean Universal is pulling back from the Blumhouse business. I just, there's the.

[Lucas Shaw]

Yeah, if you have, if you, if you release eight of them and two and two of them hit big, then that pays for the rest of it. Right? That's like, that's a reason you'd argue for studios to make more lower budget, mid budget movies. Because if one really hits, it pays for the rest of it. And the downside on them is pretty limited.

[Matt Bellany]

If the Five Nights at Freddy's and Black Phone sequels also miss, then maybe you got a problem. Yeah. You assess what's going on and should we be trying harder or doing something different with the sequels to these hits or maybe not make them? We'll see. All right, Lucas, thanks very much.

[Lucas Shaw]

Thanks, man.

[Matt Bellany]

We are back with the call sheet. Craig, welcome back. How was Italy?

[Craig Horobeck]

Italy was wonderful.

[Matt Bellany]

How was the wedding?

[Craig Horobeck]

The wedding was magical.

[Matt Bellany]

Jeff Bezos and Lauren Sanchez got married. I don't know if you listeners are aware of that. Craig was in Venice.

[Craig Horobeck]

They respectfully and tastefully kind of came into Italy and left without a trace. Didn't make a huge splash. The people were okay with it and they honored the city.

[Matt Bellany]

Well, really just the classiest people. I mean, the two of them, amazing. We're living in a glorious time.

[Craig Horobeck]

You know, I probably could have realistically gotten an invite because it really seemed like they were desperate for people to come to their wedding. There was only 200 people at that wedding and like a hundred of them were like random celebrities. He's like Tom Brady.

[Matt Bellany]

Oh, the whole thing. I mean, the people who were there, I mean, that's the question. Who are you most disappointed in for attending the Bezos Sanchez wedding?

[Craig Horobeck]

I think Oprah was. You could see the disappointment on her own face.

[Matt Bellany]

But you know what? Oprah has a long history of sort of being involved in the spectacle. Like she, it's sort of part of her brand. I was disappointed that she was there. But Oprah, at least, like, she's, she knows that what people are talking about and she was there. And also Gale went to space with.

[Craig Horobeck]

Lauren Sanchez with Blue Origin.

[Lucas Shaw]

Right.

[Matt Bellany]

So that was not the only story you missed while you were gone. We got a Bond director. Denis Villeneuve is the Bond director. Unfortunately not my prediction, but Alfonso Cuaron removed himself from the process. And then, you know, Denis was by far the biggest name of the people that they interviewed at the end. Not surprising that he got it. Were you surprised?

[Craig Horobeck]

I was a little surprised. I thought it was going to be Cuaron. I just assumed that Denis was. Wasn't in the mix, to be honest. Doing Dune. This is another franchise. I'm pleasantly surprised and very excited for this.

[Matt Bellany]

Well, he's talked about it. He's talked about wanting to do it.

[Craig Horobeck]

And he loves Star wars too. When you interviewed him, he talked about his love for Star Wars. So I appreciate what a director.

[Matt Bellany]

Although then he shit on George Lucas. So I don't know that he's getting Star wars anytime soon.

[Craig Horobeck]

But it's cool that a director of his quality wants to do something like this. That's like the ideal pairing.

[Matt Bellany]

I am excited. And the other names, like, you know, Jonah Nolan has never directed a movie. Paul King, the Paddington guy, like, that's a little underwhelming. Edgar Wright was in the mix, a baby driver, and he's got the Running man. And Ed Berger, who has conclave. Like, those were all good. I actually thought it might have been Berger because he's sort of a. He doesn't have a visionary style to him. He's great director, but he does lots of different kinds of movies. Denis has a very specific style to him and it'll be fascinating to see how that translates to Bond. So they gotta have. They gotta find a writer now and then they'll do the Bond actor. There's some lists that are floating around out there that are bs. Do not believe that.

[Craig Horobeck]

And that's. So you're not here to predict who the next Bond will be today?

[Matt Bellany]

No, I'll tell you who it's not going to be. Tom Holland is on one of those lists. They're not going to pick Spider man to be Bond. I mean, I know they want to go young, but it's not going to be Tom Holland, silly. Elio flopped as predicted. We don't have to talk about that. The other one that you missed is the Poop Cruise documentary. How did you miss the premiere of Train Wreck Poop Cruise, which premiered last week on Netflix? My prediction actually today is that the Poop Cruise documentary is going to debut at number one. On the Netflix weekly ratings list, the top 10.

[Craig Horobeck]

Great. So we've, you brought up James Bond, we've talked about Elio, all this stuff and what you're landing on is that Poop Cruise is going to be the number one rated show on Netflix.

[Matt Bellany]

This is fascinating to me. I cannot get enough of this. I watched it because I wanted to see what the Netflix Poop Cruise documentary would be. It's part of this whole train wreck series that has done very well on Netflix. These are little mini movies they're doing about scandals from 10, 15 years ago that people like yourself who did not live through the CNN 24 hour a day coverage of the cruise ship that lost power and started having sewage spilling everywhere and things like the Rob Ford scandal and you know, all of these other things from 15 years ago that millennials and Gen Z don't know about. They're all watching it on Netflix. It's fascinating.

[Craig Horobeck]

And was it an hour well spent for you?

[Matt Bellany]

It was funny. Yeah. There are some funny characters. There's a guy who describes the sewage as being like a lasagna because there was like toilet paper mixed in with the sewage. And we don't have to get, we don't have to get into the details. So it's funny. But the interesting thing about it is that that is what is delivering for Netflix. I know they have all kinds of different content and different things, but the prestige stuff and the expensive movies, that's the stuff we talk about. But if you look at the top 10 lists, they every week now they are populated by these scandal documentaries that do not get much attention, do not cost very much and just are hitting it out of the park for Netflix.

[Craig Horobeck]

It's incredibly troubling.

[Matt Bellany]

It's troubling for documentary directors. I know they're pissed because Netflix used to be a big buyer of prestige documentaries and they just still do a little bit of that. But these things are not, I mean there's reenactments everywhere. They're playing, playing for laughs. They are a reality show version of a documentary and that is what people like to watch on Netflix.

[Craig Horobeck]

These are basically just long form versions of like Doom or you know, TikTok videos that you get stuck scrolling at one in the morning. I mean that's essentially what this stuff is.

[Matt Bellany]

Another episode you missed is we talked about whether Netflix is going to start do more, doing more YouTube style content and in some ways they already are. But with, with doing these kinds of documents, I know they're better done and Netflix puts effort behind them, but it is the style of content that one might be expected to see on a social media channel. So good for them. They're eating up hours. Engagement. Engagement. Engagement.

[Craig Horobeck]

Eating up hours. Turn your brain off.

[Matt Bellany]

Yes. Eating up. Engagement. And it will be number one this week. We'll see. All right. That's the show for today. I want to thank my guest, Lucas Shaw, producer Craig Horobeck, our editor Jesse Lopez. And I want to thank you. We'll see you one more time this week.