Podcast Summary: The Town with Matthew Belloni

Episode: "Are Movies Actually Getting Longer? We Found Out."

Date: April 3, 2026
Host: Matthew Belloni (A)
Guests: Producer Todd Garner (B), Producer Greg Horbeck (C)

Overview

This episode tackles the widespread belief that movies—especially those in theaters—are getting noticeably longer. Matthew Belloni and Todd Garner break down runtime data, discuss the creative and business forces shaping movie lengths, and consider the consequences for audiences, studios, and theaters. The conversation is informed, candid, and seasoned with real industry anecdotes and a touch of wry humor.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Perception vs. Reality: Are Movies Actually Getting Longer?

• Data Deep-Dive: Film researcher Stephen Follows analyzed 36,000 films (1980–2025). Contrary to popular belief, the average movie runtime has remained stable at ~102 minutes for decades.
• Theatrical Releases Are Getting Longer: Movies grossing over $10M (i.e., wide releases) have increased by 15 minutes in the past 20 years—now averaging 120+ minutes ([03:00–05:15]).
• Genre Breakdown:
  • Action films have grown from 102 min (1980s) to 116 min today.
  • Comedies and horrors remain unchanged.
  • Dramas actually got shorter in theaters.

Quote [05:33, Belloni]:
"The average movie has not gotten longer... But the movies that gross more than $10 million in theaters—they have gotten 15 minutes longer over the past 20 years."

2. Why Are Theatrical Blockbusters So Long?

• Big IP & Filmmaker Power: Studios now focus on blockbuster IP (e.g., Marvel, DC), often made by "auteurs" with significant control.
  • Producer-driven vs. Director-driven:
    The 80s/90s action movies ("producer-driven") were shorter and ruthlessly edited after test screenings. Now, directors like Christopher Nolan, James Cameron, or Quentin Tarantino can dictate longer runtimes.
  • Fan Service & the Streaming Wars: Studios see "added value" in longer films, aiming to deliver an ‘event’ experience that can't be replicated at home ([10:21]).

Quote [06:51, Todd Garner]:
"Now these really talented, really good filmmakers are working in those genres... back in the day they would preview the movies, nine times out of ten the audience would say it's too long and they would go to town on it and make it shorter."

3. The 'Fan Culture' Effect

• Deep Engagement: Hardcore fans crave longer runtimes filled with Easter eggs, lore, and extended narratives.
• Director Leverage: Passionate fanbases embolden directors to resist cuts, arguing that the length is justified.

Quote [09:16, Garner]:
"...the fans love it. They want to get into it. They're seeing Easter eggs that no one sees... they're enjoying it in a different way. And it's sort of luscious to them in a different way than a casual fan is."

4. Challenges for General Audiences & Theaters

• Inconvenience Factor: For non-fans or families, long runtimes (plus lengthy previews) make a night out daunting.
• Theater Economics: Longer movies mean fewer showings per day—multiplexes can juggle around, but theater owners privately complain about the loss of lucrative screenings ([17:35–18:24]).
• Quote [13:06, Garner]:

"I have never in my 30 plus years of making movies... ever at a preview, audience heard them say make it longer. And I've never heard a marketing guy ever come out of a preview and go, you know what? That movie was 20 minutes too short."

5. The Auteur Club: Longest Films Come from the Elite

• The 150-Minute Club ([16:05–17:04]): Oppenheimer, Avatar: Way of Water, The Irishman, Avengers: Endgame, Justice League, The Batman, Dune, Once Upon a Time in Hollywood.
• Studios Reluctant to Challenge Top Filmmakers: These are "geniuses, auteurs" who get their way.
• Performance: These movies tend to do well, suggesting runtime isn't a barrier for quality content.

Quote [17:18, Belloni]:
"...with exceptions, those movies all did well... if the movie is long and it's good and the filmmaker has a fan base, it doesn't seem to matter."

6. Streaming's Influence on Movie Length

• Assumption vs. Reality: While it's often assumed streamers want longer films for more "engagement minutes," they're actually data-driven—it's all about keeping viewers watching, not just total runtime.
• Immediate Feedback Loop: Streaming platforms track viewership to the second; if a segment drags, they see viewers drop off in real-time.
• No Arbitrary Runtime Mandate: Streamers focus on pacing and "grab moments", not just making it longer.

Quote [22:33, Garner]:
"...they can tell you the moment people checked out. So if you're not keeping people interested the whole time, you're going to lose them. Much different than in a theater."

7. Franchise Myth-Busting

• Not Just Franchises: Both standalone and franchise films have gotten longer—gap is just three minutes. The trend ties more to genre (action/superhero) than to franchise status ([25:52–26:33]).

8. Pacing Over Runtime

• Consensus: Good pacing trumps runtime. If a film is compelling, few complain about length.
• Test Screening Wisdom: Average audiences never ask for movies to be longer.

Quote [28:33, Belloni]:
"I don't think this is a problem. This is a pacing problem rather than a length problem."

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• The Wham O Chart ([07:35])
  • Todd Garner: "Joel Silver used to have a thing called the Wham O chart where every 15 minutes he had a giant explosion or some sort of action beat happen."
• On VHS-imposed Length Limits ([12:38–12:48])
  • Belloni: "It used to be in the contracts... because of VHS... Titanic on VHS, you're like God damn, it's two tapes."
• On Test Screenings ([13:06])
  • Garner: "I've never in my 30 plus years... ever at a preview, audience heard them say make it longer."
• On the Auteur's Deal ([14:43])
  • Belloni: "The bigger the budget, the longer the film. $100 million plus movies now average 129 minutes..."
• On Streaming Pacing ([23:01])
  • Garner: "If you have a shitty movie, if it's eight minutes long, it's not going to work... it's a much different metric..."
• On Awards-Bait and 'Artsy' Movies ([17:36])
  • Belloni: "We don't have to talk about the artsy movies because there’s always going to be those."
• On Middle-of-the-Road Films Feeling Overlong ([29:13])
  • Garner: "Especially in those mid level kind of sequels... they're not aware, they're not looking for [runtime bloat]. And just a casual fan like you is like, oh my God, this is brutal."

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 03:00–05:15: Discussion of Stephen Follows' runtime data; confirming only big-grossing theatrical films have gotten longer.
• 06:51–10:39: Industry shift: producer-driven films to director-driven, impact of IP and fan expectations.
• 13:06–14:19: The myth of audiences or marketers requesting longer movies.
• 16:05–17:04: The “150 Club”—list of the longest prestige films and their auteur directors.
• 18:24–19:51: How multiplexes mitigate the economic loss of longer runtimes.
• 22:06–24:26: Do streamers care about runtime? Discussion of data, pacing, and retention.
• 25:52–26:33: Data busts the myth that only franchise films are getting longer.

Conclusion

The conversation ultimately lands on a nuanced insight: For the general public, the "epidemic" of long movies is mostly a blockbuster/action movie phenomenon, not a universal trend.

• Audiences tolerate—even embrace—length if the film earns it via quality, directorial style, or devoted fan service.
• Studios grant creative freedom to their biggest talents, but this risks overindulgence and runs up against practical limitations for theaters and casual moviegoers.
• The core issue is pacing, not absolute length.

Further Listening

• For anyone interested in the inside baseball of film production and distribution, Todd Garner’s anecdotes about "the Wham O chart," test screenings, and producing for both studios and streamers are essential.
• Listeners can hear the group’s lively debate on genre marketing and box office tracking for the new Zendaya/Robert Pattinson movie from [30:06 onward].

TL;DR Takeaways

• Movies, on average, aren't longer; action blockbusters are.
• Fan culture and auteur power drive longer runtimes.
• Studios and streamers prioritize engagement and pacing over arbitrary runtime.
• Theatrical economics and casual audiences are affected, but not enough to reverse the trend—yet.
• “Make the movie as short as it is good.” – (Alexander Payne, as cited by Todd Garner [09:15])