Podcast Summary

The Town with Matthew Belloni

Episode: Ariana in Wicked and How to Cast a Billion-Dollar Movie
Date: December 11, 2025
Guests: Tiffany Little Canfield (Casting Director), Greg Horbeck (Producer)

Episode Overview

In this episode, host Matthew Belloni dives deep into the world of high-stakes Hollywood casting, focusing on the upcoming film adaptation of Wicked and the broader challenges of assembling billion-dollar movie casts. Special guest Tiffany Little Canfield, one of Hollywood’s top casting directors (and an Academy member), offers a behind-the-scenes look at how casting decisions are made for major studio franchises, the new Academy Award category for casting, and the complex factors influencing who gets the big roles—including talent, public expectation, and even social media.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Oscars’ New Casting Category (00:49)

• The Academy is set to add a new “Achievement in Casting” Oscar for the 98th Oscars in March.
• Belloni: “It’s a long time coming... casting directors play a crucial role in populating film and TV with the right actors, discovering new talent, et cetera.”
• Discussion on how voters will evaluate which movies are the “best cast”—considering both star power and fit for roles.

The Wicked Casting Process (03:03 – 10:16)

• Universal’s mandate for casting Wicked was unusually open: “find the two best actors for these witches.”
• Little Canfield reveals they even considered unknowns, seeing “hundreds” of actors and not limiting themselves to stars.
• Little Canfield (03:49): “We didn’t have a mandate like that on this one... it was find the two best actors for these witches.”
• Star power (Ariana Grande) balanced with Broadway prestige (Cynthia Erivo) but the focus was on talent, especially vocal ability.
• Other actors, like Amanda Seyfried, came very close (“She got very close. I love Amanda. She’s incredibly talented.” [05:52]).

Studio Control and Decision-making (06:02 – 07:20)

• Studio (Universal) ultimately approves choices, but director Jon Chu and producer Marc Platt had major influence.
• Belloni challenges the notion of true openness, referencing the business value of star power.
• Little Canfield: “There was a lot of questioning of Ari when she was announced... a double-edged sword when the audience has such an expectation.”

Dealing with Backlash and Online Discourse (07:48 – 10:16)

• Disney casting (e.g., Rachel Zegler in Snow White) often faces pre-release social media backlash.
• Little Canfield: “At the end of the day, we talk about them a lot... But we are making decisions that we think are fresh and important, regardless of some of the negative things.” [08:22]
• The focus remains on talent and essence of the character, not just online perception or box office guesses.

Wide Net Casting for Musicals & Inclusivity (10:19 – 12:58)

• For films like Moana, thousands of self-tapes are screened.
• The process relies on emotional instinct—“you feel it right away” during auditions.
• Casting platforms/databases help manage and classify submissions, but the human touch stays vital.

Creative Choices and Out-of-box Casting (12:58 – 15:14)

• Little Canfield explores “out-of-box” candidates and brings unique faces/skills into the mix—even within large ensemble scenes.
• The importance of casting for world-building and authenticity in fantasy and period pieces is underscored.

Agents, Managers, & the Flood of Submissions (15:14 – 17:32)

• The rise of “cut-and-paste” or AI-driven submissions from agents is overwhelming for casting directors.
• Personalized pitches with specific reasons (“that’s a pitch... I wanted to meet her immediately.” [16:33]) are far more effective.

Ryan Murphy, Creative Inspiration, and “Stunt” Casting (17:32 – 19:31)

• Casting for high-profile showrunners (e.g., Ryan Murphy) relies on inspiring the creator, not just filling celebrity quotas.
• Finding surprising, inspired choices can be thrilling (“what would get me excited if I saw a Deadline article about this announcement?” [18:39]).

Franchise Film Casting: The Thrill and The Frustration (21:02 – 24:37)

• The most exciting part is seeing lives change when someone gets a huge role. Example: Nicholas Galitzine (now cast as He-Man).
• Scheduling is the biggest logistical hurdle, particularly in today’s “peak TV” era.
• Ariana Grande’s journey to landing Wicked was a major highlight for Little Canfield:
  • Little Canfield (23:35): “Honestly, Ariana Grande for Wicked... was so incredible.”
  • Dropping pop-star persona, her preparation and willingness to audition multiple times impressed the casting team.

Self-Tapes: Democratization or Loss? (24:37 – 25:20)

• Self-tapes and remote auditions have made casting more inclusive, letting casting directors expand searches far beyond the traditional 10-person shortlist.

Hollywood’s “Young Star Problem” (25:20 – 26:57)

• Fame is now diffuse across platforms, making true star-making harder and increasing pressure to rely on the “same 10 people” for big projects.

Social Media and Marketing: Are They Decisive? (26:57 – 27:59)

• Studios may cite social media as a casting factor, but Little Canfield remains skeptical:
  • Little Canfield (27:13): “I'm kind of jaded about that...I think there’s whole groups of people who run someone's social media.”
  • Points to Emma Stone and Jennifer Lawrence succeeding without social profiles.

The New Casting Oscar: Industry Impact (28:13 – 29:05)

• The Oscar for casting has already raised the field’s profile, helping demystify the process and opportunities for both actors and the public.

Great Casting in Movie History (29:05 – 29:47)

• Little Canfield’s pick: Jaws—even small, one-line characters were memorable (“if you say the line, I still see those people.” [29:18]).

Challenges of Period Casting and “Face Work” (29:47 – 30:36)

• The modern “facelift” and cosmetic procedures create obstacles for period-accurate casting.
• Producers sometimes specifically ask for “natural faces.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On auditions for Wicked:
  “It was…an embarrassment of riches…because people really engaged in this.”
  — Tiffany Little Canfield (05:52)
• On Star Power vs. Talent:
  “There was a lot of questioning of Ari[ana] when she was announced. And so I think there’s a double edged sword when the audience has such an expectation and a point of view about the performer already.”
  — Tiffany Little Canfield (07:48)
• On Representation Emails:
  “The biggest problem is what’s starting to happen is a cut and paste… It's almost like we just have to delete it because we can’t even find our real emails.”
  — Tiffany Little Canfield (15:51)
• On Ariana Grande’s Wicked Audition:
  “She came in very much in… the ponytail and the makeup… we really kind of asked her, can you come back and drop all that?... her commitment to the audition, her preparation… It’s a real creative process…”
  — Tiffany Little Canfield (23:50)
• On Social Media as a Casting Factor:
  “I think fame should be a slightly embarrassing byproduct of good work. So why don’t we focus there?”
  — Tiffany Little Canfield (27:59)
• On Casting Jaws:
  “Even characters with one line, if you say the line, I still see those people.”
  — Tiffany Little Canfield (29:18)
• On Plastic Surgery & Period Pieces:
  “That’s a big conversation. That’s a really, really big conversation.”
  — Tiffany Little Canfield (30:17)

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Timestamp | |------------------------------------------------------|--------------| | Oscars’ Achievement in Casting discussion | 00:49–02:54 | | Wicked: Casting process, mandate, star power | 03:03–07:48 | | Social media backlash in casting | 07:48–10:16 | | Wide net casting for musicals like Moana | 10:19–12:58 | | Out-of-box creative casting, ensemble building | 12:58–15:14 | | Agents & submissions: what works, what doesn’t | 15:14–17:32 | | Ryan Murphy and creative casting strategies | 17:32–19:31 | | Franchise casting excitement, Nicholas Galitzine | 21:02–22:30 | | Ariana Grande’s audition journey | 23:35–24:37 | | Self-tapes—democratization of auditioning | 24:37–25:20 | | The “Young Star Problem” in Hollywood | 25:20–26:57 | | Social media and star selection | 26:57–27:59 | | The new Casting Oscar’s industry ripple effect | 28:13–29:05 | | Greatest casting in movie history: Jaws | 29:05–29:47 | | Challenges of cosmetic procedures & period casting | 29:47–30:36 |

Takeaways for Listeners

• Casting directors are finally getting overdue recognition for their role in shaping iconic films.
• The process is more open than most realize—talent, instinct, and fit often trump pure celebrity, even in tentpole productions.
• Online fandom and backlash are considered but rarely decisive. Studios want both box office and lasting resonance.
• Self-tapes have made casting more democratic, but relationships, creative inspiration, and industry knowledge still matter deeply.
• The modern “star system” is fractured; finding real star power is as challenging—and as important—as ever.