← The Town with Matthew Belloni
The Town with Matthew Belloni
Bribe? Surrender? Both? Unpacking the Trump-Paramount Settlement.
00:28:36
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- [00:02]
Jordan Ritter Khan
When you hear the word Seattle supersonics, what comes to mind? Maybe it's Shawn Kemp the Rain man or Gary Payton the glove. Or maybe an image of a tall and skinny 19 year old rookie, Kevin Durant. For fans in Seattle, it's something else. It's tragedy. It's theft. An iconic team with an incredible fan base that packed its bags and shipped off for Oklahoma City. From Spotify and the Ringer, I'm Jordan Ritter Khan and in my podcast Sonic Boom, I talk to players, politicians, owners and fans about how Seattle lost the Sonics. You can listen to it on the Book of Basketball feed on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [00:45]
Matt Bellany
It is Wednesday, July 2nd. It finally happened at 9pm, LA time the press release arrived in my inbox. Paramount has reached an agreement in principle to resolve the lawsuit filed by President Trump concerning a 60 Minutes report. That very general language was followed by the details $16 million Paramount will be paying to Trump's presidential library to settle this $20 billion lawsuit over that Kamala Harris interview, a meritless lawsuit in the eyes of most legal experts. And CBS News agreed to release a transcript of future interviews with presidential candidates. Okay, but no apology or statement of regret from Paramount as Trump had wanted. That's a big deal, as we've discussed on the show. Still, this payment, I think we can safely call it a bribe or a ransom or whatever gross term you want to use. It is widely seen as greasing the wheels of Trump's FCC, which has held up the approval of Paramount's $8 billion sale to Skydance. As of this taping, that deal has not been approved. And Brendan Carr, the FCC chair, he said that the review is, quote, totally separate, end quote, from this litigation. Okay, but clearly Sherry Redstone and her Paramount board saw value in settling this matter. And the timing was curious right before today's annual shareholder meeting where some new board members were taking over. It's also before another deadline to consummate this transaction, but that will be extended as they figure this out. CBS News staffers are predictably pissed about this and the Writers Guild put out a statement attacking the capitulation of CBS News and the chilling effect it may have on future journalism there and elsewhere. But George Cheeks, the Paramount co CEO that oversees CBS News, he defended the deal to shareholders today, saying it, quote, allows the companies to focus on their core objectives rather than being mired in uncertainty and distraction. That $16 million number is also exactly what Disney paid to settle Trump's ABC News case. We'll discuss why that's important. And Trump's lawyers, for their part, they said the settlement was, quote, another win for the American people. They said they are holding the, quote, fake news media accountable, end quote. Top Democrats are also now calling for a bribery investigation. So there's lots of implications from this settlement. We've got Brian Stelter of CNN here today. He's covered the case pretty extensively as his Reliable Sources newsletter, and he's got some takes that are pretty different from mine. So today it's the paramount Trump settlement. And what's next in this big giant mess from the ringer and puck, I'm Matt Bellany and this is the town. All right, we are here with Brian Stelter, chief media analyst at cnn, returning champion to the show. Welcome back, Brian.
- [03:25]
Brian Stelter
An honor to be here as always.
- [03:28]
Matt Bellany
All right, so let's jump right into it. 20 billion was the amount demanded in the lawsuit. The settlement, we are told, is for 16 million. Is this a taco moment for Trump? Trump always chickens out. He got 0.08 of what he asked for.
- [03:46]
Brian Stelter
Yes. Shout out to my editor at cnn, Andrew Carell, for doing that math this morning. I said, I need you to figure out this percentage. Look, by the percentage basis, this is a loss for President Trump, but his team is declaring victory. And we all understand why he's now able to go out with that statement and say, I fought the fake news and I succeeded. I'm doing this on your behalf. And I do think that quote from the spokesman for his legal team is telling because for Trump, that's what this was. It was a publicity stunt. It was a mission to show that he is fighting the, quote, fake news. And every time he does this, every time he notches a win for his voters, even though it's not a win in the reality based world, it is something that matters.
- [04:31]
Matt Bellany
Well, It's a win. $16 million is better than zero. And I think most of us who work in media thought this case was worth exactly $0. Right.
- [04:40]
Brian Stelter
Because CBS did nothing wrong. And my frustration, and I think the challenge that I've felt, and I know that other media writers have felt in covering this case, is that it's absurd. The lawsuit was absurd. The lawsuit was frivolous. And as many times as we say that, as much as we tried to convey that through the news stories, it still gets flattened into something that sounds serious. Right. Trump's settlement with cbs, it sounds like something legitimate when this was absurd on its face.
- [05:08]
Matt Bellany
Yeah, but you know what? Like I, I hear you and I know the implications for CBS News are not good here. And that's why we hear so much discontent there. And the CBS 60 Minutes correspondents are writing letters and people are speaking out at meetings. And we had Bill Owens quit and we had, you know, other exits. I understand all of that. But I think it's easy or easier for people like you and me to jump up and down and wave our hands and say, this is not right. This is not right. The fact of the matter is Trump had leverage over cbs. He knew it. And anytime Trump has some leverage, he will go for it. And this was him going for it. And there were two choices. He here for the Paramount board and for Sherry Redstone, it was do the best possible version of a settlement that you can or drag this out and possibly lose the $8 billion sale. And when you're in that chair and you're deciding between two pretty bad choices, I understand why you go for the bad but not catastrophic choice.
- [06:24]
Brian Stelter
And there is a strong argument that this was the least terrible version of a settlement. Am I getting that right? The least bad outcome from a settlement point of view?
- [06:35]
Matt Bellany
Yeah. But from what I've read and what you've done, there's going to be long term damage to the brand here.
- [06:43]
Brian Stelter
I believe there is. And CBS News journalists believe that there will be. And I think there are some outside press freedom groups that want to make sure there is. They want to track this out. Right. Look at the statements from Democratic senators today.
- [06:54]
Matt Bellany
Yeah, we'll get into that. We'll get into that.
- [06:55]
Brian Stelter
Yeah. There are a lot of people who are gonna try to have long memories when it comes to this case. But insofar as $16 million is the same amount that Disney's ABC paid Trump last December, again going to that future presidential library, insofar as Paramount did not.
- [07:10]
Matt Bellany
Apologize, there should be one freaking nice presidential library. It's gonna be gold plated.
- [07:14]
Brian Stelter
And you know that wing is gonna be called the fake news wing. I mean, he's going to literally take their money and use it to trash.
- [07:20]
Matt Bellany
Them with gold toilets everywhere.
- [07:22]
Brian Stelter
100%. But I think that there is an argument here. I think there's a strong argument that Paramount came out of this not paying as much as some people feared, not apologizing to Trump for no reason, as many 60 Minutes reporters and producers feared, some of the worst case outcomes here did not come true so far as we know.
- [07:41]
Matt Bellany
Yeah, they basically get to say we're just as bad as Disney and they did the same thing. And in exchange, we potentially get this FCC to approve our deal. And when David Ellison comes in, he could do the right thing with CBS News. He could say, that was then, this is now. I will never settle again. We have no idea what David Ellison plans for CBS News. There's been some reports that he wants to bring in Barry Weiss. I don't know what that indicates, but the general feeling, and I said this from the beginning, is that if you're David Ellison and you're watching this happen, you just want to get this deal done. You want them to pay off Trump in the least bad way possible so that you can get in there and try to fix it.
- [08:27]
Brian Stelter
Let me just acknowledge, though, and without trying to get up on my high and mighty journalism horse here, let's just pay off Trump and get it over with. Even that is just shocking. This is just shocking. Of course, the rest of us are trying to catch up to the reality of Trump's transactional nature. You know, maybe if you covered real estate in New York in the 1980s, you were already up to speed on this.
- [08:49]
Matt Bellany
But for everybody else, or Third World despots and demagogues.
- [08:54]
Brian Stelter
Yeah, for everybody else, we're catching up and understanding that Trump 2.0 is very different from Trump 1.0, that this is the price of doing business now, if you're a company like Paramount. And this is just how it's going to be for a while. And I think the statements from these advocacy groups and the denunciations from liberals, social media commentators, all of it just reflects people catching up and coming to terms with what this is now.
- [09:16]
Matt Bellany
Well, that stuff, in my opinion, is noise. But what is not noise is Elizabeth Warren, Ron Wyden, all of these senators who are outright saying, I mean, Ron Wyden said, I'll be the first in line calling for federal charges against Paramount. He also encouraged state prosecutors to go after the Paramount board. And. And this is what they have been afraid of during these negotiations. They brought in Gibson Dunn to advise them on potential criminal repercussions from approving this payout. And I think the 16 million number is deliberate because they can now say, this is what Disney paid. It's not bribery. If you are going to charge us with bribery, I want you to charge Bob Iger with bribery as well. I don't know whether that will be effective because obviously Bob Iger did not have a pending sale of the company that needed to be reviewed here. How serious do you think these Democrats are? Or is that just noise?
- [10:14]
Brian Stelter
I don't think it's noise. I think for all of the liberals who keep Saying, where are the Democrats? Why aren't they fighting? Why aren't they standing up in this Trump 2.0 era? Actually, this is an example of the Democrats standing up. Right. The statements from senators, the calls for investigations. This is actually what people on the left have been asking Democrats to do. So Warren, for example, saying this could be bribery in plain sight. I'm calling for a full investigation. The reality is she doesn't have the power to do that when the Democrats are in the minority. But Wyden at least says he's going to have a long memory. And I think some of these other Democrats will as well, because this is a really clean, clear, vivid example of what has changed again in Trump 2.0. To the extent that it's noise, though, the Paramount deal will be done.
- [10:55]
Matt Bellany
Well, we don't know. That's my next question.
- [10:57]
Brian Stelter
Well, I was. I was about to add an asterisk. Yeah, yeah.
- [11:00]
Matt Bellany
How long do you think the FCC waits to approve this deal? One source of mine said that to avoid the appearance of a quid pro quo here, they will wait 30 days, which would put it at the end of July. And is that enough time? I mean, we all know what's going on. If they approve it today or tomorrow, it's even more obvious. But Brendan Carr says there's no connection here.
- [11:24]
Brian Stelter
What do the kids say when you don't reply to a text? They leave you on read. They leave you on read. What's that expression?
- [11:30]
Matt Bellany
I don't know. You're younger than me. You're right.
- [11:33]
Jordan Ritter Khan
Leaving somebody on red.
- [11:34]
Brian Stelter
Yes, that's the phrase. That's what Brennan Carr is doing to me. I texted him first thing this morning. I asked him, any new comment, any new update? Nada. Nothing. He hasn't said a word to anybody about this so far as I can tell. I do think what you said makes sense about some sort of waiting period. At the same time, what are we coming up against? The July 7th informal merger deadline between Paramount and Skydance. They're gonna have to extend it once again.
- [11:59]
Matt Bellany
Yeah, they get. They get one more automatic extension there. So it'll really. The deadline is October, and obviously, every day that this drags on is another day that Paramount is just languishing. They have this south park situation that they have to deal with where they can't greenlight another season of the show or they're in a fight over that. They have deals that they're losing, shows they're not making, movies they're not bidding on. All of this stuff is hanging in the balance until the Skydance people can come in here and try to make sense of it.
- [12:33]
Brian Stelter
I sure would love to hear Jon Stewart's monologue about this settlement, by the way. I don't know if we will or.
- [12:37]
Matt Bellany
Not, you know, Is he on vacation this week? He probably is.
- [12:39]
Brian Stelter
There are people I wish I could hear from, by the way, including the 60 Minutes correspondents who are also mostly on vacation because the news magazine is on a summer break. And all of this is coming. Just to make it even more personal, Matt, what is Sherry Redstone dealing with right now? Right. A thyroid cancer diagnosis. She's had it for months, so I hope she hasn't searched her mentions on X today or on Blue Sky. I guess Blue sky would be the problem. You know, there's so much vitriol directed toward her. There are some understandable reasons why, but there's a very human element here. There are many people that want to get this deal done for many different reasons.
- [13:10]
Matt Bellany
Well, that's the other thing that I have always found a little hypocritical here. You see the Writers Guild putting out a statement, you know, abhorring this deal capitulation, all the big words. And yes, I agree with them, it is bad. But the Writers Guild is not looking at the alternative here and the possible bankruptcy of this major media company and studio that could fall into, I mean, the Ellison people at least have the money to continue CBS News if they choose to do so with the kind of investment that the Writers Guild would love to see. And they're at least talking about a path to saving this company as a standalone going concern. And some of the alternatives for Paramount were 100%, not that it would have been merged out of existence or wound down or stripped for parts. And that's where I think a little bit of the grandstanding on these journalism issues doesn't address the financial reality of this company and, and what this deal could mean for that company.
- [14:14]
Brian Stelter
Right. And the emphasis is on the word could. What we don't know is what kind of owner Ellison would or will be. There are some really positive, rosy scenarios and there are some much more negative, worrisome scenarios. And from what I'm hearing from CBS News staffers is a lot of anxiety, a lot of worry about that, wondering what does the future hold? What will he be like? Does he have some sort of side deal with Trump? There's no evidence of that, but that's a question that's been raised today.
- [14:42]
Matt Bellany
Sure. There's a Charles Gasparino tweet. He is A New York Post writer covers business that is known to be favorable to the Trump administration and often breaks news in the conservative media world. He tweeted today that there is a side deal where the Ellisons have agreed to put PSAs on CBS that will bring the value up to $30 million for this deal. My sourcing on this has suggested that that is not the case. I assume that is the case with your sourcing as well.
- [15:12]
Brian Stelter
It is. But I wonder what's going to happen when the FCC review process ends? Meaning, will there be some language tucked into some part of the blessing of the deal that does include PSAs, for example? And for all we know, that's because the idea came out today in a Gasparino tweet, and as a result, it was put into writing. Who knows?
- [15:32]
Matt Bellany
Or it came out in the secret shaking of the hands backslapping between Trump and Ellison at a UFC fight. We know they were at two separate UFC fights chatting, and that could have been something they talked about. And we also know that, I mean, this could be explicit. I mean, the FCC has talked about CBS having bias issues, and Sherry Redstone herself has talked about CBS having an anti Israel take in some of these 60 Minutes stories that they've aired. So perhaps this would be anti Semitic messages. You know, anti anti Semitic messages that air on CBS as part of this deal that could bring the value up, and the FCC would require that, not necessarily the deal that was agreed to today.
- [16:17]
Brian Stelter
And just to take this one step further, again off a speculative cliff here, if it turns out that the settlement on paper was exactly the same as the Disney settlement, but actually, there were other provisions, other quiet agreements on the side that wouldn't be provable to anyone trying to investigate a bribery claim. Well, this all would make sense, wouldn't it?
- [16:38]
Matt Bellany
Yeah. But keep in mind that anything explicit here would be illegal. If Ellison at this point had some agreement to pay Trump extra to settle this, that is illegal. And I gotta think the lawyers advising Skydance and all of them would know that and would not overtly do that. I got to at least give them that amount of credit here.
- [17:01]
Brian Stelter
There are very smart lawyers working this case. Yes. And I would also take it a step further and say that the bigger concern, if you're working at 60 minutes, is not about any conversation that Ellison and Trump had months ago at a UFC match. It's about what the new parent company will do three or six or nine or 12 months from now with a tough story about the Trump administration. What decisions will be made about whether to air a piece, whether to hold a peace, whether to kill a peace. Because for all of Shari Redstone's flaws, for all the anger toward her inside CBS News, she did not kill any of those pieces this year. Those pieces that made her uncomfortable, that made the Trump administration angry, that caused another legal threat. Those pieces all still aired. And I think that's just one of the great unknowns going forward about again, what kind of owner he would be.
- [17:53]
Matt Bellany
Do you think we'll see any more resignations at CBS News?
- [17:57]
Brian Stelter
I have no reason to believe we will. Although it is possible at the end of every season, people might decide to move on and do new things.
- [18:04]
Matt Bellany
Well, a lot of them are very old anyways, so.
- [18:06]
Brian Stelter
Well, I didn't want to say it like that, but there you go, you can say it. You know, listening to Scott Pelley recently, talking with Anderson Cooper on cnn, you could hear Pelly's almost exhaustion with what's been going on at cbs, but also his desire to use what is still the highest rated news program in America to cover the Trump administration. When you are at 60 minutes, you are in that Capri seat. You have a lot of power still.
- [18:30]
Matt Bellany
And that's why Trump cares. Trump's not going after Jimmy Kimmel or the LA Times or any of these other outlets. He's going after the one that he knows reaches a ton of people, 20 million people a week. And that can actually have impact on him.
- [18:46]
Brian Stelter
Yeah, he cares so deeply. I noticed Armin Katayan, a former 60 Minutes correspondent, he was a contributing correspondent, but he worked at CBS for years. He said on X today, he said this was a breach of the public trust Murrow, Cronkite, Hewitt and thousands of us worked to build. Well, you could take that. That's a very pessimistic view. You could also say, okay, time to rebuild the trust. Time to build it back.
- [19:08]
Matt Bellany
And that's why I think Some of these 60 Minutes people might stay like, I think for someone like Scott Pelley or Leslie Stahl, like, they're also very curious what's going to happen if they do their job and David Ellison is their boss. And if then he starts going after them and saying, you know what, guys maybe don't do that tough story about ice, then they go public, then they cause an entire shit show.
- [19:32]
Brian Stelter
And that's the thing, they will tell us all the episodes we've seen so far with Trump versus the media. They're not happening in secret. They're happening very visibly.
- [19:41]
Matt Bellany
Right.
- [19:41]
Brian Stelter
Terry Moran and abc, for example, has been a Very visible breakup. And so for all the concern about a chilling effect, a chill in the air. Yes, there is a chill in the air. But I would argue to you, Matt, tell me if this is too positive. It's only a temperature change of 1 or 2 degrees. The actual climate has not shifted. There is tough, probing coverage of Trump day in, day out. And, yes, is a little more difficult. Are there people that are a little more concerned? Yes, but the temperature change is small, including at cbs.
- [20:12]
Matt Bellany
Yeah, I don't know. I think that at the upper echelon of media. Yes. But I do think that media outlets are thinking twice about the way that the Trump administration and others that are mimicking them are approaching them. And it's also kind of on both sides, besides Gavin Newsom. Sue Fox News. That doesn't happen if the environment has not been tweaked by Trump.
- [20:37]
Brian Stelter
No. And Newsom's suit in some ways is a, well, it's a piece of performance art and it's a statement about the ridiculousness of Trump's lawsuits.
- [20:46]
Matt Bellany
And it's also an attempt by him to utilize the tactics that have made Trump popular.
- [20:51]
Brian Stelter
Right?
- [20:52]
Matt Bellany
Yes.
- [20:52]
Brian Stelter
Yes.
- [20:53]
Matt Bellany
So what if we've gone through this entire settlement nonsense and the FCC still denies the deal or just sits on it and never acts and the expiration comes. Is that a possibility in your head?
- [21:07]
Brian Stelter
It's a possibility, but then I think we're talking about a protracted court case. Then I think Paramount is going to court against the government. We've seen this before. I was there for the AT&T version of this and the government lost.
- [21:20]
Matt Bellany
Yeah, well, there's going to be lawsuits regardless. I mean, on both sides. Sher is going to get sued. She's already the, some of the shareholders are upset about this and what she's getting out of it versus them. There's might, might be suits on the other side. So there's going to be litigation that comes of this. But I agree the FCC and Brendan Carr is smart enough to know that if he does nothing on this, they are going to get sued. And it's. What's the argument? Every, all the other regulatory stuff has been approved. It's just the FCC transfer the licenses and maybe you argue they're biased, but that's, that's tough.
- [21:52]
Brian Stelter
And frankly, Trump already, he already got his scalp.
- [21:56]
Matt Bellany
Yes, he did. All right, so, so let's, let's look forward here in two, three months. Are we talking about the David Ellison administration taking over or are we still talking about when will this deal finally.
- [22:10]
Brian Stelter
Get My gut says that in two or three months we are talking about the new leadership of Paramount, talking about Ellison's actual plans for news and for the rest of the company, maybe in a positive way. We're talking about possible investment into CBS News and what can be built there as opposed to what can be shrinking there. Because that's what the news division's been going through for a long time.
- [22:34]
Matt Bellany
And meet your new 60 Minutes correspondent, Jesse Waters.
- [22:39]
Brian Stelter
And not Jesse Waters, but you know, you mentioned Barry Weiss. I actually think Bari Weiss would not go off into so called old media. But I am sure there will be an effort to bring in new voices. Yes. And I'm sure some of those new voices will make people uncomfortable. And maybe that's okay. Yeah, maybe that's a good thing.
- [22:57]
Matt Bellany
I know sometimes people in the media, they draw these lines in the sand and they don't recognize that when you own media like you do, you are entitled to put your stamp on that media. CBS does not have to be exactly the same under Ellison as it has been under the Redstones or even Bill Paley going all the way back. Like he can do things that will shake things up. Now, whether he does that responsibly or in the, you know, trying to act in the best interest of the audience, we will see. Or whether he just starts putting out propaganda that helps him and his business interests, we will see as well. But that's what the rest of the media is there. And hopefully the marketplace of ideas will take care of that.
- [23:42]
Brian Stelter
And by the way, not Sam Pollyanish that has been working so far. When there is a scandal inside one of these news divisions, it ends up leaking. People end up hearing about it, it ends up backfiring on the people who are trying to keep it a secret. There is a good chance here for a revitalization of CBS News. Even though it has been diminished, even though morale is low, even though this has been an embarrassment, there is an opportunity here. Because I look at these old school news divisions and I use the word old on purpose, Matt. I look at these divisions and I think they know an old language. They need to learn a new language. But they're capable of learning. They are capable of learning. There are so many journalists at these places and so many producers and so many entertainment executives at Paramount that want to learn the new language that you're covering every day in the streaming world. But they need help doing it. Sometimes they need a little money to do it and they need the support of leadership. And that's why in some cases, a new leader can be a very good thing.
- [24:35]
Matt Bellany
Well, maybe Ellison will merge CBS News with CNN and then you could be on 60 Minutes.
- [24:40]
Brian Stelter
Why did you have to. Why do you have to go to the next one?
- [24:42]
Matt Bellany
Greg Gutfeld will love that one if that happens. All right. Thank you, Brian. Appreciate it.
- [24:47]
Brian Stelter
Thank you.
- [24:48]
Matt Bellany
All right. That's the show for today. No call sheet. My prediction for the fourth weekend is Craig is going to be floating on a giant inflatable swan. So I'm pretty sure that's going to be true this weekend. I want to thank my guest, Brian Stelter, producer Craig Horbeck, artist Jesse Lopez. And I want to thank you. We'll see you next week.