Chalamet, Cruise, and the New Celebrity Press Tour Playbook

Summary

The Town with Matthew Belloni Episode: Chalamet, Cruise, and the New Celebrity Press Tour Playbook
Release Date: June 6, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of The Town with Matthew Belloni, host Matt delves into the evolving landscape of celebrity publicity. The focus centers on how traditional press tours have transformed in the digital age, exploring the new strategies celebrities and their teams employ to maintain and enhance their public profiles. The discussion features an insightful conversation with Louis K, a seasoned talent publicist, who sheds light on the complexities and innovations within modern PR practices.

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Interview with Louis K: Shifts in Celebrity Publicity

Matt Bellani opens the conversation by highlighting the dramatic changes in celebrity press tours over the past decade. Traditionally, publicity campaigns followed a well-established hierarchy, starting with national magazine covers and culminating in late-night show appearances. However, today's landscape is far more intricate, integrating a myriad of digital platforms alongside traditional media outlets.

Louis K expands on this by acknowledging that while the core principles of publicity remain, the expansion of media channels has introduced additional layers and complexities. He remarks:

"[05:22] 'It's mostly accurate. But I think that because we're so privy to so much information and we're all now part of the process, which people weren't used to 15, 20, 30 years ago, that we are just focusing in on this in a way that feels like this is some monumental shift.'"

Louis emphasizes that the media ecosystem has undergone multiple transformations, each introducing new methods to engage audiences. He notes that the rise of podcasts, YouTube, and other digital platforms has not entirely supplanted traditional media but rather added complementary avenues for publicity.

Balancing Traditional and New Media

Matt Belloni probes deeper into the practical aspects of navigating this new media terrain, asking about the hierarchy of podcasts and their impact on publicity campaigns. Louis responds by highlighting the individualized approach required for each client:

"[07:27] 'There's definitely a hierarchy, but you have to point out that every single person and account and project is just its own thing.'"

He explains that unlike the past, where a few dominant media outlets sufficed, today's vast array of digital platforms necessitates a more tailored strategy. Publicists must now assess numerous factors, including the client's comfort with various media formats and the specific objectives of each project.

The Role of Authenticity in Modern PR

A central theme of the discussion is the paramount importance of authenticity in contemporary publicity strategies. Matt posits that authenticity serves as the "North Star" in the new PR wars, citing examples of celebrities like Timothée Chalamet and Andrew Garfield who successfully project genuine personas.

Louis K concurs, stressing that authenticity must emanate organically from the client. He states:

"[14:22] 'If you can figure out and get to know your client in a way that you can help them bring that out, and then we have the relationships to execute those things.'"

He illustrates this with Timothée Chalamet's strategic public appearances and social media presence, which feel natural and unforced. Louis emphasizes that effective publicists facilitate the expression of their clients' true selves rather than fabricating personas.

Navigating Social Media and Digital Outlets

The conversation also explores the interplay between social media management and traditional publicity efforts. Matt questions the necessity of maintaining social media accounts, especially for clients who might benefit from a more curated public image. Louis K advises caution, suggesting:

"[24:59] 'My rule of thumb, too, is if you're asking your publicist, then deep, deep down, you know you probably shouldn't be doing it.'"

He advocates for a strategic approach where publicists oversee and guide their clients' social media activities to ensure consistency and alignment with broader publicity goals. This ensures that all public communications reinforce the intended image and messaging.

Challenges of the PR Business Model

Towards the end of the interview, Matt addresses the financial dynamics of the publicist-client relationship. He points out that unlike agents or managers who earn a percentage of a client's income, publicists typically receive a fixed monthly fee. Louis K views this as a stagnant aspect of the industry:

"[27:58] 'I don't think there'll be any movement on that... And so much of what we do is we work very closely with, you know, with the agents and managers especially.'"

He explains that the current business model ties publicists' earnings to their client base rather than to the clients' financial success. This structure discourages publicists from negotiating for a share of earnings, as it would require systemic changes and collective agreement within the industry—a scenario Louis deems unlikely.

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Interlude: Ana de Armas Premiere Coverage

The episode transitions to a segment featuring Craig, who attends the premiere of John Wick: Ballerina, the latest installment in the beloved franchise starring Ana de Armas.

Craig shares his experience attending the premiere, rating his excitement level:

"[31:37] 'I had middling expectations. They were met and softly exceeded. I would say.'"

He discusses the film's opening weekend projections, comparing them to previous entries in the series, and expresses his concerns about the potential impact of overlapping franchises like Mission Impossible. Craig also notes the prominence of Ana de Armas' entourage at the event, highlighting the industry's emphasis on star power and media coverage.

Matt expresses disappointment that Craig did not meet Ana de Armas in person, encouraging networking and personal interactions at such events. The segment underscores the importance of star presence and media strategies at high-profile premieres.

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Conclusion

In this episode, Matt Belloni and Louis K navigate the intricate evolution of celebrity publicity, balancing traditional media approaches with the expansive possibilities of digital platforms. The conversation underscores the critical role of authenticity in shaping public personas and the ongoing challenges within the PR industry's business model. The interlude featuring the John Wick: Ballerina premiere further illustrates the practical applications of these publicity strategies in real-world scenarios.

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Notable Quotes:

• Louis K on media shifts:
  "It's mostly accurate. But I think that because we're so privy to so much information and we're all now part of the process... it feels like this is some monumental shift." ([05:22])

• Matt Bellany on authenticity:
  "The appearance of authenticity. And that is what all the PR people are chasing." ([14:16])

• Louis K on social media strategy:
  "If you're asking your publicist, then deep, deep down, you know you probably shouldn't be doing it." ([24:59])

• Louis K on PR business model:
  "I don't think there'll be any movement on that... And so much of what we do is we work very closely with, you know, with the agents and managers especially." ([27:58])

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This comprehensive overview captures the essence of the episode, providing listeners with valuable insights into the modern dynamics of celebrity publicity and the strategic considerations shaping today's press tours.

Transcript

[Bill Simmons]

This is Bill Simmons and I want to tell you about my movie podcast, the Rewatchables, where each week I'm joined by ringer movie lovers Chris Ryan, Sean Van Van Lathan, Kyle Brandt, Mallory Rubin. We have a whole bunch of people on we talk about movies we can't stop rewatching and now you can watch us cover these movies on video in the Spotify app. We have covered over 350 movies including Heat, Goodfellas, Boogie Nights, Pulp Fiction. We have some real heavy hitters coming up here in 2025. Make sure to follow us on Spotify, where you can watch every new episode. Right now, just head to the Rewatchables on Spotify now on video.

[Matt Bellany]

This episode of the Town is brought to you by MAX Presenting Hacks for your Emmy consideration. Starring Gene Smart and Hannah Einbinder, the new season picks up with Deborah Vance's late night show finally in production and Ava Daniels stepping in as head writer. To Deborah's dismay, their ever complicated relationship is pushed to new limits as they clash over creative direction and get entangled in blackmail and betrayal. Don't miss the series Slate says has never been better. Emmy eligible for Outstanding Comedy Series and all other categories now streaming on max. This episode is brought to you by Netflix. Presenting the Diplomat from writer and creator Deborah Kahn. Keri Russell and Rufus Sewell return with Allison Janney joining in the explosive second season as US Ambassador Kate Weiler navigates high stakes diplomacy and a fraught marriage in search of the truth. The Guardian lauds the Diplomat a masterclass in storytelling and Indiewire hails it one of the best shows of the year. For your Emmy consideration. It is Thursday, June 5. It used to be the hierarchy of movie star publicity was pretty established. If an actor had a movie or a TV show coming, he or she would start the campaign with a long lead national magazine cover, a men's or women's magazine, maybe Vogue or Vanity Fair. Then follow that with some print and digital interviews, a formal junket where tons of outlets have their 10 minute chats, then TV, local and national and international. Then finish strong with a late night or morning show appearance to drive box office or tune in. These days it's much more complicated. The old school stuff still matters, but there's the increasingly crucial digital component, the so called new media circuit that can be both a gold mine and a PR minefield. Nick Kwa at New York magazine wrote a piece recently about what he called a maddening sprawl. Countless possible routes, none guaranteed. Things like Chicken Shop Date, Theo Vaughan, hot ones Smartlist. In many ways, these have replaced the traditional outlets as the preferred bookings for particular talent with particular projects to sell. And hovering over it all is the big flip in celebrity pr. The star with a strong social media profile is now his or her best PR vehicle, much more powerful than most of these so called gatekeepers. Which begs the question for some, why do any publicity at all? This is all a big topic in Hollywood right now, especially in the top level of the PR firms, especially when stars like Timothee Chalamet and Andrew Garfield, Selena Gomez and Taylor Swift seem to be mastering the dark arts of publicity. But of course, they have teams of communications professionals behind them. So I thought I'd strong arm one of them to come on the town today to discuss it all. Louis K is a longtime talent publicist. He reps everyone from Jimmy Kimmel to Amy Poehler to Sean Evans and Hot ones. He has a company called Covert Creative that also works with brands including the Ringer, which produces this show. He's a veteran of the talent PR wars. He's also a friend of mine. So I made him come on the town to talk about the new rules of the celebrity press tour. From the Ringer and Puck, I'm Matt Bellany and this is the Town. All right, we are here with Louis Kay, talent publicist extraordinaire, first guest in the history of the town that had to be forced at gunpoint to come on the show. Thank you for being here.

[Louis K]

You're welcome. The gun worked.

[Matt Bellany]

Yeah. Don't be so enthusiastic. I mean, the tenor of your voice is just too overwhelming for me.

[Louis K]

This is the first time I've ever done this.

[Matt Bellany]

Yeah, you've never been on a podcast, which is hilarious because many of your clients have very popular podcasts like Will Arnett has smart lists and Amy Poehler has her own successful new podcast. You've never been on a podcast.

[Louis K]

I've been made fun of on multiple podcasts, including Bill Simmons and Sal having a field day with me at least once a season. But no, this is the first time I've actually agreed to appear on one.

[Matt Bellany]

Okay, well, we appreciate it and I wanted you on because you have some pretty unique insight into this topic that has become, I think something people are talking about around town is the new media circuit and what kind of publicity actually moves the needle, if anything, for stars when they are out promoting their movies or shows. Take us through. First of all, how much things have changed in the past 10 years, even though we all knew that obviously digital outlets and YouTube and all the other new media places were the place to reach young people. I feel like post pandemic, these outlets have sort of subsumed the traditional outlets and now they are primarily the focus. The new media tour is the focus of the press tour. Is that, is that accurate?

[Louis K]

I don't know if I'd say that that's fully accurate. It's mostly accurate. But I think that because we're so privy to so much information and we're all now part of the process, which people weren't used to 15, 20, 30 years ago, that we are just focusing in on this in a way that feels like this is some monumental shift. But media landscape has changed multiple times. Even my career, I mean, I've been doing this 25 plus years. But you know, back in the day you would go and do three hours of radio tour and go into local markets. Then it turned into radio, turned into magazines being more prestigious. Now magazines have turned into podcasts. I think it's just, there's new ways with technology to reach people and it's, there's just, there's more outlets and there's more ways to get to people right now. But I think this whole new versus old thing, there's plenty of people who still absorb media in an old school and I put that in air quotes, traditional way. And I think the key is figuring out based on what the project is, how you mix and match those.

[Matt Bellany]

Yeah, you still have to do all the old stuff, but now there is an extra layer on top. And the extra layer.

[Louis K]

Oh, there's layers on top.

[Matt Bellany]

Multiple layers.

[Louis K]

And I think another thing to keep in mind is most of the people that are making decisions on who's getting hired and where things are, they're older and they are seeing and absorbing those traditional ways. So it would be silly, I think, to have a project and just focus in on this quote, unquote new way of doing things.

[Matt Bellany]

Yeah, the heads of the studios are not listening to Theo Vaughn is what you're saying. And people think of publicity as a way to get attention from the public, but it's also a way to show the industry that you are the kind of person that can get a lot of publicity. So you have to be in the venues where the powerful people within the industry are paying attention. I want to get into the playbook here. So, like, take us through some of the kind of decision making process for determining which podcast, for instance, to go on. Like, is there a hierarchy of podcasts right now?

[Louis K]

There's definitely a hierarchy, but you have to point out that every single person and account and project is just its own thing. Like, my life would be so much easier. The people that work with me, I think every publicist's life would be easier if there was just, like, a manual of how to run a certain thing. It's just you have to take into account the person, the. The project, how good they are with media, how comfortable they are. Are they someone who is on social media? Are they not on social media? There's a hundred factors that go into every single project, and that's what's made the job a lot harder. Because back in the day, there were limited things you could do. You could kind of pick and you could be like, you know what? That person seems more like a Kimmel person than a Fallon person, or that's a Colbert person. And you just do the few things. But now there's just so many ways to getting to people.

[Matt Bellany]

Yeah. If you didn't get Vogue, you did L. If you didn't get L, you did, you know, Glamour.

[Louis K]

Yeah. Like, and now it's just like. So you have to figure out who you're dealing with. I mean, and look, I'm fortunate enough to work with a lot of clients who are very comfortable in many different ways. And so I have a lot of resources available to push them and pitch them and book them on things. But I have a few people that either they're good at it, but they don't want to do it as much. We have plenty of clients that we could be getting a lot more for. They just don't want to be in those certain venues.

[Matt Bellany]

Right. It's always about the person as well. But, like, let's say you have reasonably smart, savvy client who wants to do some press and is saying, what's this manosphere? Should I be in the manosphere? What are. Like, what are the podcasts that I should be on if I'm not paying attention? Like, I mean, I know you represent Will Arnett, but is Smart list the top one? Is it if you can get Marin, and he's leaving. But if you can get Marin, do you do Marin for sure. Like, what is the. The new hierarchy of the publicity tour for digital outlets?

[Louis K]

Well, to answer your first question, when you. If someone's asking about the manosphere, and if. If they should be doing something, the answer is probably no, because that means.

[Matt Bellany]

That if you have to ask, yeah.

[Louis K]

You'Re going to flail in that you have to at least understand the audience you're going to speak to. So that's One, you know, the more general entertainment, for lack of better terms, kind of safer big picture like these bigger podcasts, you know, yes to your I work with Will and the Smart List brand. So of course I'm an advocate for them. But their numbers back up that Amy's podcast is obviously another one that's reaching Marin Dax Shepard Conan is a big one. You know. Yeah, you can go on and it feels like a traditional old school interview. You're not going to all of a sudden have someone bring up something from high school or try to embarrass you or surprise you, and you're going to get to talk and show a side of your personality that hopefully drives people to your project. But the funny thing is some of these shows don't even plug your project. It's just about being out in the landscape. I mean, Smart List and I don't want to speak for Will Jason Trump, but you know, they'll get to a plug. But the whole thing is not like, okay, let's spend 30 minutes talking about your movie and then 10 minutes talking.

[Matt Bellany]

About fun stuff, which is what you end up usually getting on the late night shows. I mean, people shit on the late night shows though. But the fact of the matter is, is that they are factories for digital video now as much as they are late night shows. You can go viral from a Kimmel clip as easily as you can from something like Smartlist or Chicken Shop Date or one of those.

[Louis K]

All the late night shows, not just Kimmel, can produce clips and moments that will help a campaign and showcase a person. It's a completely. You're seeing them, it feels traditional. You're seeing how they interact with the person and that they have a personality and that they pulled something off that we kind of all grew up watching. There's been people whose careers have absolutely leveled up almost immediately after a great talk show appearance.

[Matt Bellany]

Yeah, it gets to the overall question of risk tolerance, though, because in order to go on some of these shows, you have to have a little bit more of a risk tolerance. You're not going to get asked about anything remotely embarrassing on one of the traditional shows. But you go on Theo Vaughn, all of a sudden he's talking about how he was a cocaine addict. All of a sudden he's asking you if you've done cocaine. All of a sudden you're talking about the drugs you did in high school. All of a sudden you've gone viral and derailed the messaging of your campaign.

[Louis K]

But if you're going on that show not being prepared by the person in your life. And there's a lot of people who are very good who do this for a living, and a lot of great people. And they are, I'm sure, preparing their clients no differently than the way we would prepare our client before. You don't just be like, hey, Theo, one's huge. Have fun. Here's the zoom link. You know, you set up and you make sure that they know. Most of the people that we've had that have gone the Avon have wanted to go on Theo Vaughan. They get it, they've watched it, they understand what they're doing, and they're smart enough to figure out how to go on there and be the person that they want to present themselves to that audience.

[Craig]

Is it just way harder to prep for that now, Louis, like going on the Avon or like Dax Shepard, which is basically therapy? Is it. Is it just a ton more work to prep your client to go on a 90 minute intimate conversation show?

[Louis K]

I think the clients are way more savvy about PR now than they even were 10, 15 years ago. I mean, I think they know what they're doing and they have their own mediums doing shows and doing podcasts. They understand how it works so much better than they did. I mean, 20 years ago, as I was just getting started, I would have to explain, like, here's why you want to go on the show. Here's who he is. Here's some old things that they did. We rarely have to do that these days. People know what they're kind of getting into. So I guess the answer is no. I don't think it's that much harder because they're savvier over under.

[Matt Bellany]

On mild heart attacks you have each year five take the.

[Louis K]

Take the over five.

[Matt Bellany]

More than five.

[Louis K]

Matt, I like that you're pretending we don't know each other kind of. Well, you know the answer.

[Matt Bellany]

We do know each other, but I don't know how many heart attacks you have. I know how many times you call me screaming.

[Louis K]

Okay, screaming is a strong word.

[Matt Bellany]

It is a. The number of times you have called me screaming is. Is, I think two, maybe three.

[Louis K]

That's once every, you know, eight to nine years of knowing each other. That's pretty good.

[Matt Bellany]

So this question of authenticity is, I feel like the North Star of the new PR wars. The appearance of authenticity. And that is what all the PR people are chasing. It's what people like Timothee Chalamet, Andrew Garfield, they appear to have. These press tours come from an authentic place. And when Timothy Chalamet Shows up at his own lookalike contest. You know, we are told that he did that on his own. Who knows if. That. If he was coached for that. When he goes on Pat McAfee and can predict the outcome of the Ohio game better than any of the hosts there. When he, you know, posts videos on his Instagram of him dancing around and it just. It feels authentic. How can a PR person fake that or create that or aid that while still remaining authentic these days?

[Louis K]

I like the word aid. That's the only word that you use that I don't like. I didn't cringe at.

[Matt Bellany]

You didn't like, fake or create?

[Louis K]

No, because the word authentic says it all. It has to be coming from somewhere that the person wants to do and is them. And I think if you can figure out and get to know your client in a way that you can help them bring that out, and then we have the relationships to execute those things. I mean, Timothy Chalamet, I don't like talking about other people's clients, but I will say, I mean, he has done an incredible job.

[Matt Bellany]

And that's Jessica Kolstad and her team, and they do a great job.

[Louis K]

They're amazing at it. You know, I think it's. It's like if he says, like the last couple weeks, like, I'm going to go to Knicks games, I'm a diehard Knicks fan. Like, it's not like she's going to be like, well, I don't know, this will be a bad look. She's just going to help figure out what she needs to do to bring that to life. And that's why it works so well for him.

[Matt Bellany]

But she's booking that. She decided that college game day was a good venue for him and not maybe the Pat McAfee show or something else. Like, there are choices there.

[Louis K]

I mean, I can't speak to the choices that she's made. I think that he clearly has interests and passions, and they realized pretty early on that he's really good at doing that. And they put him in the position to shine, and it worked.

[Craig]

He also did stuff that I imagine was not a part, like the PR team's plan, like him singing Black Eyed Peas shirtless in a warehouse, rolling on the floor. I don't think was a was in the playbook.

[Matt Bellany]

They also claim that he. That he did the. The lookalike thing on his own, but we know. We don't know that was a great move.

[Louis K]

Every publicist has woken up to an email or a text seeing that a client Chose to do something. Thankfully, his instincts have been more good than bad.

[Craig]

Do you think young stars in general are smarter about promo now just because they are more online and understand the ecosystem maybe even better than the people working for them do?

[Louis K]

A hundred percent. Because they've grown up being their own publicists before they hire people like us. Like, we were all our own publicists in high school, have how people thought about us and how we dressed. But it was like a small little thing of a few hundred people or thousand people, depending on where you live now. Like, they've cultivated their image through Instagram and TikTok and I mean, Facebook for some of the older ones, and how people saw and felt about them. They were doing that for themselves. So I think they understand the job. Sometimes it's more of a challenge for us to be like, that's what you thought was working. But if you want to do this type of thing, you now need to listen. And we got to kind of work together on figuring out how to do that. But I think the younger people all understand publicity. I didn't even know what a publicist was. I got hired as my first job as someone's assistant working for Brad Caffarelli. Shout out to Brad. One of the best. And when I started working for Brad, and I was going to work for a big publicist whose name was on the door of a. I didn't even know what a publicist was.

[Matt Bellany]

I learned what a publicist was in Happy Gilmore. Julie Bowen was his publicist.

[Louis K]

Yeah, that's funny.

[Craig]

Is that Apex Mountain for public?

[Matt Bellany]

Maybe it is. I don't know. I don't know. But that's. For me, that's where I learned about it. I was like, what? Like publicist? Do you feel like you have to be more creative now? Like something like the severance activation in New York that broke out, putting the severance people in the office in the middle of. Was it Penn Station?

[Craig]

It was Grand Central.

[Matt Bellany]

I think Grand Central Station. Like, they got the value out of that. But then you see other stunts that just don't do anything. Like, what's the key to a successful and creative stunt?

[Louis K]

I mean, you need a little magic. But you had there. You had a show that had not been on for a little bit. You had it in a venue that you weren't expecting to see it, even though it was New York. They weren't in Times Square. They weren't right outside Madison Square Garden after a game. They weren't right outside 30 Rock, where you might expect to see a celebrity that one was brilliant. I have nothing to do with anyone at Severance, so that is just full respect. What a great move that was. But, yeah, I think that you just a little bit of it also takes magic. You had, again, a show that people cared about the talent participating themselves. It wasn't just like, oh, we have a cool stunt idea and you'll show up for two minutes and take a picture in front of it. They were all in, and it just worked. And that's, again, it goes back to the authenticity thing. Like, you can't. You can't fake it. You can't fake authenticity. And that worked because it felt like such a real special moment in the time, and if they tried to do it again, it wouldn't be as cool.

[Matt Bellany]

That's why Tom Cruise, it feels he needed some fresh ideas, and I don't think he got them for this recent Mission Impossible because he's so afraid of diverting from his message. Even when he gets asked questions like, you got asked about tariffs at Cannes, and he was just like, I'd prefer to talk about the movie. I just don't think that works anymore. I think you have to be a little vulnerable and you have to kind of allow people in. And for someone like Tom Cruise, he's just not willing to do that. He wants to talk about popcorn and he wants to talk about, you know, see you at the movies. And, like, the stunts, like staying 100% on message, I don't think works anymore.

[Louis K]

Look, I think what you're describing could be a lot of generational people as things are changing and evolving and totally.

[Matt Bellany]

Denzel's the same way. Have you ever seen a Denzel interview where he said remotely anything? It is very rare, and it's just a generational thing. Like, he doesn't feel like he needs to. And, you know, to be honest, he probably doesn't. He's still a huge star.

[Louis K]

Do you think if at can he answered a very thoughtful answer about tariffs, that the movie would have made an extra $4 million in opening weekend.

[Matt Bellany]

But I think if Tom Cruise sat down for an hour and a half interview and was open with some big podcaster or Whether, you know, 60 Minutes or something, where maybe he does go there a little bit about Scientology and say, listen, this is my religion. This is my thing. I know people don't understand it. I would ask that you just allow me to have my life. Or went into some of the, you know, how he's been living the past few years in London or anything personal. People would gravitate towards that. It would make headlines and they might like him more. Tom Cruise has a problem with women, and maybe if he addressed more of this, he could rectify that problem with women. I'm not asking you to diagnose Tom Cruise.

[Louis K]

Yeah, I was gonna say I have nothing to do with Tom Cruise, but I would say everything you just said sounds like someone who records and books a podcast and is part of the media. Like that does.

[Matt Bellany]

I work in the media. I would like this.

[Louis K]

What would he really gain by doing that? So he has a problem with women. Like, you know, he's still Tom Cruise. That movie made a ridiculous amount of money. And he is like, I'd love to read that or hear it. I'm with you. It'd be interesting. But, like, why? Like, I don't know. I don't know what he really, truly gets from that unless it's part of, like. I mean, he'll kill me for bringing him up, but, you know, I work with Nathan Fielder. Nathan Fielder famously does not do a lot of publicity because he can't say anything about the project that would help make people watch the project without giving up too much about it. It's like, so that's a strategy.

[Matt Bellany]

And then it comes out and people are like, holy shit, this is amazing. And then he goes on CNN to refer to himself as a pilot and.

[Louis K]

Sort of like, I want to be very clear. He is a pilot.

[Matt Bellany]

He is a pilot. Sorry. Yes. But he had himself identified on the Chiron as a pilot, and he sort of clowned Wolf Blitzer on Wolf Blitzer's own show. It was very brilliant. I don't know if you had anything to do with that idea.

[Louis K]

But, yes, I don't think that he clowned Wolf Blitzer. I think he brought up a very serious subject that more people in this country should be listening to. I hope that Congress calls him to testify before them.

[Matt Bellany]

That would be amazing. And you hope that Congress calls him to testify right when Emmy voting starts. So you also get the Emmy bump. This episode is brought to you by.

[Unnamed Sponsor]

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[Matt Bellany]

Today's episode is brought to you by.

[Unnamed Sponsor]

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[Matt Bellany]

Mouse chase across Europe.

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[Matt Bellany]

I feel like the audience is so savvy. Like, I just interviewed these high school kids. They're so savvy about this stuff, and yet they also kind of buy into the campaigns. The Wicked press tour, people bought into it as a narrative that could have come across as fatal. How thirsty they were, how everywhere they were. But people bought into it and kind of rode along with it. And then the holding space thing, and it's like. It's like our modern version of a carnival. You see these celebrities out there selling their show for months or sometimes longer than that in the awards race, and people follow it like a soap opera.

[Louis K]

The thing, more so than Wicked for me, is even just the whole Barbie Oppenheimer thing. I think that people want to be connected to stuff, and when something can start to transcend that, it's like they don't want to be left out. And that thing is still pretty universal. No matter how much the world has changed, people don't like being left out of things.

[Matt Bellany]

Right. It definitely created the ultimate FOMO that made it all the way to kids. How closely are you advising clients on their social strategies?

[Louis K]

Not super closely, because it's not my expertise.

[Matt Bellany]

But your company does.

[Louis K]

No, but. But I think we like to be involved. I mean, we will. Some of them have their own social media people and they will do things. I think it works best when it's all in concert. I mean, I look at myself and I think all personal publicists should be. It's like we're the CMOs of a company. So even if there's other different areas and divisions, everything should kind of like rise up and make sure that it's universally gone through the prism of what the company should be saying. And there's sometimes that disconnect happens where someone's social feed feels a little different than them on a talk show. But my advice at this point is I'm very happy. I would be happy because no one really uses Twitter anymore. And I refuse to say the other name. You know, when I would get a text being like, can I tweet this? I was always like, oh, thank God they asked. And, you know, then I could be like, no.

[Matt Bellany]

Do they listen? Is the question. Oh, thanks for your advice. I'm going to do it anyways.

[Louis K]

9 out of 10 times. And every once in a while, they'll still do it. And then they're like, oh, I should have listened. Usually my rule of thumb, too, is if you're asking your publicist, then deep, deep down, you know you probably shouldn't be doing it.

[Matt Bellany]

Huh. That's a good mantra. What percentage of known celebrities have social media managers or people that are posting, slash, advising on what they post?

[Louis K]

I mean, I don't know a percentage, but I. I think of a good amount.

[Matt Bellany]

90?

[Louis K]

No, not 90. It's just another cost ad. But I think a lot of people have people that are advising. And again, we certainly have points of view on these things too. I don't want to make it out like we're like, who cares about social? We. We very much have a point of view. But it also. I happen to also work with a lot of people who are creators and create for themselves anyways, so they understand what they're putting out there, because they put stuff out for themselves all the time. That's how come they got famous.

[Craig]

Is it annoying, Louis, when people like Emma Stone, like, if you were to represent Emma Stone, Jennifer Lawrence, Will Ferrell, the people that don't do social, does that just make your life miserable or is it kind of nice?

[Louis K]

No, it's amazing. So much easier.

[Matt Bellany]

What are you talking about? It's the Denzel line. Why would they pay for you on the weekend when they get to you.

[Craig]

All week for free, but then they're not promoting themselves? There are people who are so good media on their own accounts.

[Louis K]

It goes back to. Everything is like, it's. It has to be authentic to the person. She might get annoyed that I say it, but it's true. Like, Amy Poehler famously was not on social media, has no interest in being on Twitter or Instagram. She really liked TikTok. She really watched a lot of TikTok. She figured out what made sense for her. She started. She created a TikTok with. With. With her manager and started to do it in a way that was exactly the way she wants to be put out on TikTok. She has like one a week, one every two weeks. And it works. It's great. You feel like you're getting something with her. And because she wanted to do it in a way that made sense to her, and she took time to, like, figure out how to do it.

[Matt Bellany]

And honestly, because she's not everywhere. I was interested in her podcast more.

[Craig]

It feels new. It feels like you're seeing her in a new light.

[Matt Bellany]

I don't see her tweeting or posting on Instagram all the Time. So it's like, oh, Amy Poehler is someone I enjoy. She's got a lot of very funny famous friends. Like her podcast might be something I would enjoy.

[Louis K]

Yeah. But the answer to your question is, again, it depends on the person.

[Matt Bellany]

One thing I've always liked about you is that you have been a big advocate for the PR industry as a whole. Like, people don't understand how the money in Hollywood works, but the way that commissions work or the way that people's reps are paid is that the agent typically will take 10% of a client's income. The manager will take 10%. A lawyer will take 5%. If you have a business manager, that's another 5%. The publicist does not get a percentage of a client's earnings. The publicist traditionally will get a monthly fee. It's usually somewhere between 5,000, 10,000 bucks a month when that client is quote, unquote, on and promoting something, and then the publicist is off and not getting paid. It's a very difficult business model for the PR people, especially when you look at their colleagues on the team of the star, and all of these people are getting paid a percentage of the revenue. Like, is there any movement on that? Would that. It. Will that ever change, or is that just the way it is?

[Louis K]

I don't know if there'll be any movement on that, because I think the only way that there would be is pretty much every publicist would have to get together and say that we would like to see a change where when great success happens, we get to take part in that success. No one's looking to pay more money, and no one's looking to lose any money. And so much of what we do is we work very closely with, you know, with the agents and managers especially. So it's not like publicists are going to start challenging agents and managers and their revenue and what they get. And I don't want to. I think, you know, they deserve it.

[Matt Bellany]

Well, you might be able to pitch a client, say, listen, I'll work for you for free, But I want 3% of your earnings, whatever you make.

[Louis K]

I find that very difficult to believe that that will happen anytime in the future. You know, the problem with the model, you know, agents and managers wouldn't be like, hey, like, someone's just breaking, and you're getting six grand a month, and we're not even making that because, you know, or they're making 60 grand an episode. So we're. We're making the same thing.

[Matt Bellany]

Right?

[Louis K]

And that's fine. The Beginning like, I actually think there needs to be two different tiers to publicity representation. I think most people reside and they could be a monthly retainer client. They have a project, come on. They want your advice on the things we just talked about. And you're doing pr. There are dozens, if not hundreds of people that become famous enough that just they're famous all the time, whether they have a project or not. And the way publicists incrementally make more money is because you are attached to so many great people and have done a good job. You get more business, which means you have to work on all of those people, and then you have to hire and pay people to work with you on those things so that you can maintain the business. Whereas almost every other shape of the business, the bigger clients you sign, the more money you make. You don't have to if you want to. And you're driven to sign more business, great. But you, from a financial standpoint, you grow and rise with your clients.

[Matt Bellany]

The people who need it all the time, the big brands, the people who rely on publicity day in, day out, those people should incorporate the PR person into their overall team. From a percentage basis, what you're essentially.

[Louis K]

Saying, I mean, I don't think it'll ever be a percentage range. I think that there should be thresholds or either bonuses or. If some project is done wildly well and people are making a lot more money based on everybody's cashing out, it'd be nice for. For publicists to. To have a wave that if they've helped, and I say helped, not because of. There's no publicist that any of this stuff is because of them. Like, it all starts with the talent. But I do think it is. It can be sometimes a little frustrating when you see people just hit it. It's like they've won the. I mean, they've worked hard, but they. From a financial standpoint, it's like they won the lottery. And, you know, and then two months later, the project's off and they're going to take six months off and they're like, okay, we're going off fee. Thanks. I mean, I. And I'm not just saying this. Most of my clients just stay on.

[Matt Bellany]

Well, you. They're the kind of people that do that. Like, at lower tiers, it's less of that. All right, well, you survived your appearance on the Town. I appreciate you coming on. I will take the gun down at this point. You can go about the rest of your day.

[Louis K]

Look, you agreed to kill that story about what Happened. That person did. And I appreciate it.

[Matt Bellany]

That's true. I do have something over you forever that I. I'm kidding. I do not. But that would be funny if I did. All right, Louis. Thank you.

[Louis K]

Okay. Thank you, guys.

[Matt Bellany]

We are back with the call sheet. Big moment for the town ballerina from the world of John Wick. Starring the patron saint of the town, Ana de Armas. Craig, rate your excitement level on a 1 to 10 scale.

[Craig]

I had middling expectations. They were met and softly exceeded. I would say.

[Matt Bellany]

Yes. You went to the premiere the other night? I was out of town.

[Craig]

I went alone, which was really funny. I invited my wife. She was busy. All of my friends were busy, so I went alone.

[Matt Bellany]

Bad move by her. Bad move by her.

[Craig]

I said, hey, at your own peril. Liz, let me go alone.

[Matt Bellany]

Did you actually meet Ana Dharmas?

[Craig]

No, I did not.

[Matt Bellany]

You did not? What are you doing?

[Craig]

It's hard.

[Matt Bellany]

You have all these communities. You gotta at least introduce yourself. Professional setting. Hi. You know, I'm a fan. I enjoy your work.

[Craig]

First of all, I'm not a fan of doing that in general. And also, even if I wanted to, it's impossible to get through the crowds and up to these people. They're surrounded by teams. And when I don't have you, it's a different story.

[Matt Bellany]

Okay. You just gotta barge through or. Yes. You know someone who knows someone. But whatever. It's nice to meet people. You never know. You might see her, you know, another event. You want to be able to have friends and contacts. We gotta talk about this.

[Craig]

Okay.

[Matt Bellany]

All right. But the tracking for this movie is about 30 million. I think Lionsgate is lowballing a little bit. NRG has it at 33 million for the weekend. Others have it a little lower. That would be way down from the 74 million that John Wick 4 opened to in 2023. Now, obviously, that's the culmination of a big franchise. This is the spinoff. But Keanu is in this one a lot, and they are marketing him. Then they did a whole ton of reshoots to bring him into the story a little bit more. And I don't know, it seems a little low. I'm going to take the over.

[Craig]

Yeah, I think I will, too. I worry a little bit that, do you think there's going to be Mission Impossible crossover where people who want their action fix are going to still go to Mission? I almost wish this movie had another week beyond Mission Impossible.

[Matt Bellany]

Yeah. You know, this is R rated. This is a little bit kind of a different Thing, they don't have the number of PLF and large format screenshots as Mission did. But I still think it's got to get above 30. I mean, this is a big franchise. This is, you know, and I don't know, the reviews have been okay. Like, not great, but not bad. I don't think this is a review type movie.

[Craig]

I thought the movie was pretty good, to be honest. I thought it was worth doing, and it proved that this world can exist, I think, without Keanu Reeves to a degree.

[Matt Bellany]

Sometimes at these premieres for stars that the agencies really care about, they'll be like six or seven deep in a ring around the star to make them feel like the biggest star in the world, to protect them, frankly, from other agents cozying up and saying hello. Did you feel that the entourage handlers, agent people around Ana de Armas was larger than normal?

[Craig]

I would say if I had to lean one way, I would say yes. She had a significant entourage with her.

[Matt Bellany]

Yeah. Especially for this kind of a thing where it's her big moment to star in an action movie like this is. This is a priority. I'm sure they recruited a ton of people from CAA to just come in and just be like the Ana crew.

[Craig]

One interesting thing was that Keanu was really the first one to speak, and he kind of introduced the movie. He gave a nice moment of silence for Lance Reddick, who passed away. This was the last movie he acted in, but it was really Keanu who was kind of hosting the introduction of the movie.

[Matt Bellany]

Hmm. That's interesting, because it seems like it's almost like a handoff, like he wants her to. I'm sure they were all coached about this because Keanu is obviously a huge star, but they want this to be about her and her moment, and now she's the star. So I'm sure he knew exactly what to say and knew when to step away. I'm just disappointed you didn't meet her. I mean, come on, man. What are we doing here? Like, what is this? There's lots of negatives on these jobs. If you can't meet the people that you admire, like, why not? What are you. What are you doing?

[Craig]

I actually. That is not my style. I do not need to go up to celebrities.

[Matt Bellany]

I don't care about celebrities. Celebrities. But if it's someone that, like, you enjoy their work and you're at their premiere, like, say hello.

[Craig]

Okay, well, next time you and me are there together, we can do that.

[Matt Bellany]

All right, that's the show for today. I want to thank my guest, Lewis K, producer Greg Horbeck, art director Jesse Lopez, the Ana de Armas entourage, and I want to thank you. We'll see you next week.