← The Town with Matthew Belloni
The Town with Matthew Belloni
Clooney’s Big Broadway Bet, and How to Make Real Money in Theater
00:34:28
Loading summary
Transcript120 lines
- [00:00]
Zach Lowe
Welcome to the brand new Zach Lowe Show. That's right, I'm back to have the same in depth NBA conversations you're used to. We're going to talk about the games, the X's and O's, the drama. The playoffs are coming up and now you get to see every episode in full on video on Spotify and on my own YouTube channel. Episodes drop every Monday and Thursday with a collection of guests you're going to love. So make sure you follow and subscribe to the brand new Zach Lowe show on Spotify or wherever you watch or listen. Listen to your podcast. Let's go.
- [00:36]
Matt Bellany
This episode of the Town is brought to you by MAX Presenting Hacks for your Emmy consideration. Starring Gene Smart and Hannah Einbinder. The new season picks up with Deborah Vance's late night show finally in production and Ava Daniels stepping in as head writer. To Deborah's dismay, their ever complicated relationship is pushed to new limits as they clash over creative direction and get entangled in blackmail and betrayal. Don't miss the series Slate says has never been better. Emmy eligible for Outstanding Comedy Series and all other categories now streaming on max. This episode is brought to you by Focus Features and Indian Paintbrush presenting the Phoenician Scheme, an epic comedy adventure from director Wes Anderson starring Benicio Del Toro, Mia Threpleton, Michael Cera and an all star cast. Follow Zsaza Korda as he races to survive assassinations, win back his daughter and pull off the scheme of a lifetime. The Phoenician scheme rated PG13 only in theaters Friday. It is Wednesday, June 4th. We don't do a lot of Broadway on the town, but the Tonys are this Sunday and the night before. CNN is airing a live global broadcast of the play. Good Night and Good Luck with George Clooney based on the movie that Clooney directed about CBS News and its response to threats by the government in the 1950s. Very timely today given what's going on with Trump and cbs. I actually saw this play when I was in New York last month and now it's become the highest grossing play of all time on a per week basis. The $300 face value for tickets probably doesn't hurt that total. It got me thinking about the economics of theater these days. All the movie stars like Denzel and Jake Gyllenhaal and Hugh Jackman that are starring in plays and what musicals and plays have to do to break through through these days. The failure rate, how high the highs can still be in a post Covid environment. It's amazing how much money one of these mega smashes that transcends the usual theater crowd can throw off for decades thinking Lion King, Phantom, Book of Mormon. These are billion dollar properties. But while there have been hits lately and annual box office this past season is finally back above pre Covid levels, there hasn't really been a new global billion dollar smash since Hamilton. That was 10 years ago. I wanted to talk about all this, so I invited John Johnson on the show. Along with his partner Sue Wagner, John has produced nine Tony winning productions including Stereophonic, A Raisin the Sun, Skylight, a hello Dolly revival, and now Good Night and Good Luck, which is up for 5 tonys on Sunday, including best actor in a play for Clooney. So today it's the business of theater and how a producer could maybe possibly someday make a billion dollars on Broadway. From the ringer and Puck, I'm Matt Bellany and this is the town. All right, we are here with John Johnson, producer, Broadway fixture, nine time Tony winner. Am I getting that right or are you. Have you personally won 9 Tonys or your productions have won 9 Tonys?
- [03:36]
John Johnson
Both the productions have. And me as a producer, I've been lucky enough and honored enough to be able to win them as well.
- [03:45]
Matt Bellany
So why are your 9 tonys not displayed prominently in the background of the zoom that you are on right now? I would have them ringing my head.
- [03:55]
John Johnson
We like to focus on the future here in the office.
- [03:57]
Matt Bellany
Sure, sure. It's not about the awards. It's not about the awards.
- [04:01]
John Johnson
They have a nice home in my home. Let's just say that.
- [04:05]
Matt Bellany
All right. Yeah, no, I'm sure. You walk in the door, they're all right there. Okay. So big week for you, you guys. In addition to the Tonys being on Sunday where you've got the Clooney play up for five Tonys, you also are doing this big broadcast with cnn, which piqued my interest because I was kind of shocked. This has never been done before. Like, why is this the first time that a television network thought to do this? Or I guess the reverse is probably true. Why is this the first time that a hit play has agreed to allow this?
- [04:40]
John Johnson
I think it was a number of factors that came together. Shows being captured and then broadcast after. Obviously Hamilton being the sort of pinnacle of it on Disney, but also come from away and a handful of others have been doing it after the fact or while they've been running. In this instance, this came from George's inquiry into that process about how shows get captured. But as he always wants to do he wants to do something no one has ever done before. And so, you know, after a run of breaking box office records and having so much attention be on the show, he wanted to go out with a bang. And so since we aren't extending past Sunday, June 8, which is when we closed.
- [05:21]
Matt Bellany
Right. That's the big key. You're not going to cannibalize the show because there is no show after this.
- [05:27]
John Johnson
Correct. And so it's. And it just came from him and his other partners, both on the movie as well as us here coming sort of together. Warner Brothers initially distributed the movie 20 years ago and so the CNN idea came through and they were game for it. So now we're going live around the world on Saturday at 7.
- [05:46]
Matt Bellany
Oh, that's interesting because I wondered why you didn't put this on cbs because obviously the play is about things that happened at cbs. Was that the reason? Because Warner's was involved as a producer based on the underlying material and they preferred that it be on cnn, a sister company.
- [06:04]
John Johnson
It's not even preferred. It's just the nature of them having.
- [06:07]
Matt Bellany
The right of, hey, this will be on cnn. Yeah.
- [06:11]
John Johnson
And they've been an incredible partner, as have Todd Wagner, Mark Cuban and Jeff Skoll, who produced the movie originally as well. So everyone kind of looked at each other and just sort of said this makes sense. And it being a historical play and as well as a movie about news, it just made sense for it to be on cnn.
- [06:27]
Matt Bellany
Sure. And I'm sure they're glad to have it. It'll be interesting to see if it actually rates. Have they given you any estimates about how many people they think might watch?
- [06:34]
John Johnson
They have not. I think we're just excited to see because it's never been done before. It'll be interesting to see what happens. But there's not a lot going on on Saturday night. There's no NBA Finals, there's no premiere of anything. So we'll see.
- [06:46]
Matt Bellany
And then it'll be on Max.
- [06:48]
John Johnson
The future is still unclear about where it's going to go after that.
- [06:50]
Matt Bellany
Oh, interesting. It will not necessarily be on Max, so I wonder why not.
- [06:54]
John Johnson
I would say there are the folks who are doing the live broadcast and then after that are putting together their own ideas about what could happen to it after that. So we'll see.
- [07:03]
Matt Bellany
Oh, it might be like an educational tool in schools and things like that.
- [07:07]
John Johnson
Yeah, I mean, I think the focus has very much been on what's going to happen Saturday night at 7 o' clock. Making sure that that goes as well as it can be. Close the show on Sunday and then see what we have in the can and kind of go from there.
- [07:21]
Matt Bellany
Oh, interesting. I guess you could argue that it might cannibalize the original movie if there's a filmed theatrical production living on the service. But what do I know? What is your take, generally speaking, on filmed plays and whether they impact sales of the existing play? Because Hamilton didn't seem to slow down at all after releasing their pro shot during the pandemic.
- [07:47]
John Johnson
No, I mean, I think that the thought that there's any sort of cannibalization is kind of moot at this point. I think it's very much something from 10, 20 years ago, especially 20 years ago and beyond, because I think we've seen across all mediums, whether it be Taylor Swift filming her concert, releasing it in theaters, and still having dates afterwards, that has had no effect on it. You can basically see every version of Beyonce's concert that she's doing right now all over YouTube. And that's not stopping people from going and seeing it here. I think it only creates more interest for the show because there are people that are going to come here and make sure that they can sit in a seat and watch George Clooney live. And then there are lots of people who don't and will be able to experience it from here on out.
- [08:31]
Matt Bellany
Yeah, I mean, or don't have $800. I mean, there's a finite amount of space in that theater and lots of people can't get to New York. And it makes sense that it would serve as a promotional device. I think we're seeing that with Wicked. I mean, for so many years, the Wicked people were wary of doing the movie because they thought it might hurt the Broadway show, which was still pumping out cash. And I think we've seen that the Wicked sales on Broadway have gone up.
- [08:59]
John Johnson
Yeah. I mean, a month after the movie opened, they did a nine performance week Christmas week and did over $5 million, which is a mark that I don't think any show will come even close to. I mean, we've been able to do 4.2 million, which is not a terrible number, also with George at the Winter Garden Theater. But no, I mean, I think the nature of it all supports itself in terms of the ecosystem of what it is. And our hope for Good night and good luck is that it's done in regional theaters and colleges and universities all across the country and all across the world. And this will only lift it up even more in terms of the exposure of It.
- [09:33]
Matt Bellany
So that's the bar for, like, the pinnacle of Success is a $5 million week.
- [09:37]
John Johnson
Oh, that is the exception to the rule.
- [09:40]
Matt Bellany
Yeah. What does a hit. What does a hit do these days?
- [09:43]
John Johnson
I think the general marker for what Broadway uses as a hit is a show that does a million dollars a week, especially a musical doing a million. If you're in the $2 million range, you're considered a big hit. And then there are shows that get up into the threes, especially during our big holiday weeks. But for plays, depending on the size of your building, you want to be north of $700,000 up to a million. Obviously, there are certain plays like Goodnight and Good Luck with George Clooney that do over $4 million a week. But that million dollar marker still kind of rings true for a lot of shows. I know when we crossed it last year on Stereophonic, which was only in an 800 seat building, we were very, very pleased with that.
- [10:22]
Matt Bellany
That's great. All right, so I want to get into a little bit of the nuts and bolts of the business of Broadway shows because my audience, primarily film and television music people, maybe don't understand the basics of how it works. So explain the contractual structure of a typical production and the investments required and who gets paid first, et cetera.
- [10:46]
John Johnson
So you would have to think of. There are 41 Broadway theaters and every single show that is in the majority of them, I'll put the nonprofit theaters that own Broadway theaters to the side. Each one is its own small business. So you have to think, at any given moment, there are 35 small businesses running on Broadway trying to sell enough tickets to cover their weekly expenses and have enough profit above that to start paying back the upfront money, the capitalization.
- [11:12]
Matt Bellany
Costs, which is typically what for, let's say, a musical?
- [11:16]
John Johnson
For a musical, it's going to be anywhere from 15 to over $25 million. For a play, it's going to be anywhere from 4 to 9 million dollars. And the weekly running cost for a play can fluctuate anywhere from 450 to a million. And a musical running cost can fluctuate from anywhere from 750 to well over a million dollars.
- [11:36]
Matt Bellany
Okay, and how long typically does a musical take to recoup its cost?
- [11:42]
John Johnson
The industry standard is 52 weeks. So you try to build a basic model of saying you'll be able to recoup in one year of running. I think the difficulty that we've had for a lot of our musicals post pandemic and they speak ours and the Broadway is collective is that Broadway's own. The expenses have risen both on a weekly basis, as well as how to mount them upfront to such a level that it's been really hard for any musical to recoup post Pandemic. We've had a lot of success with plays. Yes, being driven by stars, but we've also.
- [12:15]
Matt Bellany
I was gonna say the star factor has really driven the plays. Isn't this the first year where the plays have outgrossed the musicals because of that?
- [12:26]
John Johnson
I think they absolutely are punching well beyond their weight of that way. And certainly there were weeks where the top three were Goodnight and Good Luck, Othello and Glengarry and Glen Ross. But there have been other plays. Omari, which is a big hit, as well as Stereophonic, which we produced last year, were two shows that did not necessarily have household star names. And both were able to recoup and both were able to run well over where they were supposed to be running from that standpoint. So just to get back to the business aspect of it, there are just as it is in every aspect of the entertainment industry. Movies, tv, film, There are shows that rise and there are shows that fall and there are surprises every year. And yes, shows that have George Clooney or Denzel Washington or Kieran Culkin in them are going to do well. But then there are always surprises here and there. The Romeo and Juliet earlier in the season with Kit Connor and Rachel Zegler was doing well over a million dollars in an 800 seat building and surprised a lot of people on the street for the nature of what their box office star power was.
- [13:24]
Matt Bellany
Yeah. Interesting. And what percentage of shows lose money in the. In the modern economy?
- [13:29]
John Johnson
In the modern economy, anywhere from 75 to 90%.
- [13:34]
Matt Bellany
Oh, my God. How do you have a business?
- [13:37]
John Johnson
It's a. It's to the point of what you just said, the hits, you know, the. You know, our business here at WJP is at the moment very much driven on these plays where we're churning out plays every single year, both in the fall and in the spring as well as we have a big part of our business is also off Broadway. We just wrapped up Andrew Scott's run there, which made money. Adam Driver in the fall and a Kenny Lonergan play that made money. And the event stature of those things are how we have success.
- [14:06]
Matt Bellany
Yeah, it's a supercharged version of the Hollywood tentpole model.
- [14:10]
John Johnson
Yeah.
- [14:11]
Matt Bellany
You know, you gotta make your money huge on the ones that make money.
- [14:15]
John Johnson
Exactly. And as a. And again, I'm thrilled to be on here and a huge fan of the town as a longtime listener of the town. The nature of the IP and the sequels sort of running the nature of film and tv. It's similar on Broadway. The long running shows, Book of Mormon, Wicked, Hamilton, Lion King. They are the ones that every year, no matter what, are doing the big grosses because they constantly have word of mouth of tourists and locals just churning out every single year saying they're theme parks. Yeah, yeah. I mean, they, they. So it's, it's, it's a, it is not dissimilar. And we're going through a lot of changes here as well, just from an audience standpoint and a generational standpoint in terms of who's coming.
- [14:57]
Matt Bellany
Yeah. The Harry Potter play seems to be a big hit, but is Netflix making money on. On the Stranger Things musical?
- [15:04]
John Johnson
I think, I think it's still. It's a play, not a musical.
- [15:07]
Matt Bellany
Oh, it's not a play. It's not a musical.
- [15:08]
John Johnson
It's not a musical. It's a play. It's a big spectacle though. I think it's early days. It obviously opened with a bang and had a big sort of push there. I think a lot of it's gonna depend on how it synergizes with the season as it comes out later in the year on Netflix.
- [15:22]
Matt Bellany
I'm sure that the powers that be of Broadway are very interested in Netflix having a hit on Broadway because if Stranger Things can make it, maybe Bridgerton will be the next and they'll all of a sudden be a new Disney player in town.
- [15:39]
John Johnson
Absolutely. I mean, all of the major media partners, obviously Universal with Wicked and Disney with Lion King, Aladdin and a host of other shows. They're about to open Hercules and the West End. Warner Brothers. They are all Warner Brothers. Who's a part of Good Night and Good Luck and we're working with them on a bunch of other things as well. They're all playing in this sandbox. Even though it's all within a five block radius and even though it's only 41 buildings, at the end of the day, it's still a billion dollar industry between Broadway, the Road and London.
- [16:03]
Matt Bellany
Yeah, Greatest Showman will be there at some point.
- [16:05]
John Johnson
I'm sure it's starting in the UK next year.
- [16:11]
Matt Bellany
This episode is brought to you by Netflix. Presenting the Diplomat from writer and creator Deborah Kahn, Keri Russell and Rufus Sewell return with Allison Janney joining in the explosive second season as US Ambassador Kate Weiler navigates high stakes diplomacy and a fraught marriage in Search of the Truth. The Guardian lauds the Diplomat, a masterclass in storytelling, and Indiewire hails it one of the best shows of the year. For your Emmy consideration. Today's episode is brought to you by Peacock presenting the Day of the Jackal. For your Emmy consideration. Eddie Redmayne and Lashana lynch star in the original drama series Variety calls an exhilarating thriller. The series follows a lone assassin and an intelligence officer in a cat and mouse chase across Europe. The Day of the Jackal is streaming now only on Peacock. All right, I want to talk a little bit about the successes because you hear these stories, I mean, I've heard for years that Mark Platt is a billionaire because of his stake in Wicked. Is Mark Platt a billionaire? Like, do the math on. I know you don't have any proprietary information, but you do know the economics of Wicked and is someone with his stake. And Universal has probably made $1 billion on Wicked because they have a stake in the play.
- [17:28]
John Johnson
Anyone who's, who's been a part of Wicked has done very well over the last 20 years for sure. I think to that small business aspect of it though, just to talk through, like who gets paid and when the investors get their money out first. And so you get it, you pay everyone on a dollar for dollar basis up to that point and then after that is where the lead producer of the show generally gets anywhere from 25 to up to 50, although usually it's very odd for it to be 50% of the back end. And so we are a business, just as it is in Hollywood. We are a business of hits. And so if you get one, it's a big deal. And then further, because of the nature of the road in London, you have multiple companies happening. And so you have to think of it like, not that they're sequels, but they're duplicate companies that because they're hits, they're probably going to do just as well as they do on Broadway.
- [18:16]
Matt Bellany
So Mark Platt has been getting 25 to 50% of the profits of Wicked for 20 years now.
- [18:22]
John Johnson
I don't know if it's that high. But I think because Universal, because you know, it's baked into his deal with Universal, again, I can't speak to him.
- [18:28]
Matt Bellany
Yeah, yeah. And they were, they were an early investor in it. And. Yes, yeah, but, but use an example like Hamilton that's been written about. Is Lin Manuel Miranda a billionaire? Is he going to be a billionaire? I think he's probably going to be a billionaire.
- [18:40]
John Johnson
Well, Lyn, because he's the, the creator of the show. And he wrote not only the book, but the music and the lyrics. He's been getting paid royalties on multiple companies for the last 10 years and.
- [18:51]
Matt Bellany
Will for the rest of his life and his children will get it. Yes.
- [18:54]
John Johnson
Yeah. I mean, again, those types of shows, your Wicked's, your Hamiltons, they just. And again, even the tear down from it, any show that recoups and then spawns those multiple companies, it all adds up at a certain point. Because it's really hard for a show that does consistently run on Broadway to then not have success on the road and not have success in London. It has happened before, but it is not. You have to imagine it like knowing that you're going to put your money in after you put it in on Broadway, you're putting it into the show that's going to travel the country. You know, it's going to do well. As opposed to thinking, is the sequel going to do well in a movie? You're kind of like, oh, who knows if the sequel will do well here? You know, that Replica Company, as it goes around the country will do just as well, if not better, as it did on Broadway.
- [19:40]
Matt Bellany
And with something like Hamilton, I remember reading about even the small players in that company had a tiny percentage of the show. Explain how that works.
- [19:53]
John Johnson
So there has been a. In the last 10 years there's been. And it actually goes past that, even back 15 years, there has been back end deals through a development aspect of what? Actors Equity, the Actors Union, our version of SAG that has built in a sort of net profit stake for anyone who's been a part of the show from the very beginning. Because a lot of the way that we develop our shows, especially our musicals, is by doing these smaller rehearsal room productions of these shows. And the show is being built with the actors who may not end up being in the show later on.
- [20:27]
Matt Bellany
Yeah, that was my favorite story is that Brian d' Arcy James, who played the original King George in Hamilton, didn't end up going with the group to Broadway. He wanted to do some other play that he was going to star in. And even though he didn't play the role on Broadway, he still gets a percentage of Hamilton because he originated the role off Broadway.
- [20:47]
John Johnson
Correct? Yeah.
- [20:48]
Matt Bellany
Is he going to be a billionaire?
- [20:51]
John Johnson
No, that one, I know that one. I can safely say no.
- [20:54]
Matt Bellany
But.
- [20:54]
John Johnson
No, but there are folks who have been in not even the productions off Broadway, but have been in rehearsal rooms doing four week work sessions that end up getting again, it's not a ton of money again. Hamilton is the unicorn of unicorns that needs to be put to the side because the original cast, the folks who weren't in the original cast, the nature of how the show has multiplied so quickly and sustained itself over the last 10 years is incredible.
- [21:21]
Matt Bellany
So Leslie Odom Jr. Anthony Ramos, they're doing okay, even though they did not create or, you know, play. I guess there hasn't been a movie yet, but they're doing fine based on their roles in there. Okay, that's good to know. Why hasn't there been a Hamilton movie yet? Why do you think?
- [21:37]
John Johnson
I think similar to the, to the. To the Wicked answer, they're taking their time.
- [21:42]
Matt Bellany
I guess we should have Lin Manuel Miranda on to ask.
- [21:44]
John Johnson
You can ask. You can ask him. You can ask Tommy Kail, you know, and I think they also want to go into. I mean, the Disney capture still is doing extremely well. My kids still watch it all the time. As much as to say that it's only been 10 years since the show started on Broadway. You look at the nature of the success of Wicked, you look at lion king at year 25 and just the nature of what they've been able to do there. I'm sure it's being discussed, but they certainly are doing just great on Broadway. So there's no rush.
- [22:15]
Matt Bellany
Yeah, I'm sure Universal or whoever would give them to $300 million to do a big budget historical, epic musical, two part, three part Hamilton in 20 seconds. They could get that, I'm sure.
- [22:30]
John Johnson
But again, it's up to the artists who the reason they've done just as done the show has done as well as it is is because they were very careful about their journey from the beginning, through their workshops, through the public, run through when they moved it. It was all very strategic.
- [22:47]
Matt Bellany
Yeah. All right, let's get to the Tonys for a second. You produced the show a number of times and it's always occupied this odd place because we always talk about how the Oscars are tough for people these days because most people have not seen the movies that get nominated. That is the ultimate problem with the Tonys is that the vast majority of people in the world have not seen the nominated plays and musicals. Is there anything the Tonys can do to fix that or to help that? Short of there being another mega musical like Hamilton or having Denzel or Clooney perform on stage. What could the Tonys do to increase viewership?
- [23:26]
John Johnson
I mean, I think to keep saying the word Hamilton. They're bringing back the cast, the original cast of Hamilton this year to form the 10th anniversary. I mean, we're playing the hits. It's like the Grammys bringing back the reunion of band X, Y or Z every year. I think the difference is that because the Oscars sort of happen after a life cycle, I know there are shows or movies that open in December that then are on the show that get nominated in February to get awards in March. But in this instance, there are some shows that only opened three, four weeks ago or five, six weeks ago that are now being able to have a national showcase. And I think the difference also in the Oscars, not that they don't show clips of the movies on the Oscars, but as any of the shows get nominated for best musical or best revival, you get three and a half minutes on national television to an audience of people that, while it may seem small in the nature of it, are tuning in to find out what's new on Broadway and to buy a ticket. It still remains a very potent, powerful thing. We had Stereophonic, which was a play, but we had a 90 second spot of them singing one of Will Butler's songs on the telecast last year. And that plus the wins that we had was a million dollar day for us at the box office.
- [24:42]
Matt Bellany
Oh, wow. So it's easily translatable. It's funny because that is not true necessarily at the Oscars anymore.
- [24:49]
John Johnson
Yeah, no. And so there will be shows that may not walk off with a trophy this Sunday, but because of their three and a half minute number, if it looks good and it sounds good and it piques the interest of people, they could easily have a 300 to $600,000 Sunday at the box office and could catapult them through the rest of the summer and beyond.
- [25:09]
Matt Bellany
And the flip side, shows that gets shut out sometimes close.
- [25:13]
John Johnson
Correct. If the number doesn't work, if you don't win any time.
- [25:17]
Matt Bellany
I kind of love that. I love the high stakes. I love that in Broadway, the New York Times review still matters. People go nuts over whether you get a positive review or not.
- [25:28]
John Johnson
We call it the critics pick. At the top of every New York Times review, there's a little button that says critics pick. And that's what everyone looks for first before they actually read the review on opening night.
- [25:37]
Matt Bellany
And it's still as powerful the Times. That's it.
- [25:40]
John Johnson
I would say not as powerful. I think the nature of the post pandemic landscape has shifted. What people do. You still want to get great reviews, you still want to get that critics pick. But it is again, that used to be something 10 years ago, especially 20 years ago, if you got a rave review, you were looking at a $300,000 day for a play. You were looking at well north of 600,000 for a musical. And it would catapult you into sustainability. Now, there are shows that get a critics pick that don't necessarily catch on immediately as it goes with everything. So much of it is driven through your phone. So much of it is driven through social media about how word of mouth spreads. And we've seen it a lot this season of how TikTok, Instagram, Reddit has driven early word of mouth for so many of our shows.
- [26:28]
Matt Bellany
You need something like the chicken jockey, where everybody throws popcorn or a live chicken in the air at some point.
- [26:33]
John Johnson
That's true. No, I mean, everyone tries to get their viral moment. You know, the nature of being able to pay attention to the hey, look at me moment, which everyone, whether you're launching an album or launching a movie or a TV show, it's all about trying to break through and pierce that veil.
- [26:52]
Matt Bellany
Is the star thing sustainable? These stars getting big money to Frontline plays like. It just seems like it's an arms race now, and it seems like it's going to. It's headed for a correction, I would argue.
- [27:07]
John Johnson
I mean, I've been lucky enough to been in this business half of over half my life. It's always been here. It's like every year there are stars that show up. And whether they're folks like George who have never been on Broadway before and it's incredible that he came here, or whether it's Denzel, who I've been lucky enough to work with a couple times, too, who makes it a point to come to Broadway every four or five years because it is in his bones and he wants to do it whether.
- [27:31]
Matt Bellany
It'S good or not. The reviews for this one were not great, but it seems to be making money.
- [27:37]
John Johnson
It recouped and it did three and a half million dollars last week. They're doing again. They're doing just fine. But so I think it's a cyclical thing. And I think that ultimately one of the positives has been, as we've seen it for both our Broadway shows and our Off Broadway shows is the lack of. We used to always talk about pilot season on Broadway and being like, let's see if these people get on a pilot or not on a pilot, and then they'll be available for a Broadway show. Now with streaming, it's a constant churn, and it's a lot easier to find these pockets of time for that star to be able to say, oh, you know what? I can do this in the fall of this year, or I can do this in the spring of this year. And so with Sadie Sink, who we're working with, on John Proctor as the villain right now, we deliberately waited until Stranger Things filmed its final season and then prepared this show to be produced at that moment.
- [28:29]
Matt Bellany
That's a great point. Last question. Has Sherry Redstone seen Goodnight and Good Luck?
- [28:34]
John Johnson
Has she seen it? I don't know. I gotta think that she has, because almost everybody.
- [28:40]
Matt Bellany
You wouldn't know. People wouldn't point her out.
- [28:43]
John Johnson
Listen, we have a lot of housing requests come through the office, but there are. Sometimes people buy online, sometimes people buy through StubHub. And we don't know. There are times that we walk into.
- [28:52]
Matt Bellany
She's standing at the tickets counter for the two for ones in Times Square.
- [28:56]
John Johnson
I don't know about that, but people have different ways of getting in. We take a look at it as. As best we can.
- [29:03]
Matt Bellany
She's listening to the Town. She should definitely see it. Thanks for coming on the show. Appreciate it.
- [29:08]
John Johnson
Thanks so much for having me, Matt. Take care.
- [29:10]
Matt Bellany
We are back with a call sheet. Greg, did you pay close attention, I'm sure you did, to the announcements at the big Netflix promotional extravaganza last weekend called Ta Doom? Sure.
- [29:20]
Greg Horlbeck
They popped up across my various timelines on social media.
- [29:23]
Matt Bellany
Yeah, I'm sure you were following every single one of them. You got to know the premiere date for Wednesday, season two.
- [29:30]
Greg Horlbeck
I know. I think we've gotten a little bit out of hand, like, announcing when things will be announced. The NFL did that at the draft. They announced the date of the schedule release at the draft. And we're. We're starting to announce announcements. It's getting ridiculous.
- [29:43]
Matt Bellany
It's like the trailer for the trailer. Yes, the teaser for the trailer for the trailer. Yeah, they announced a bunch of things. The biggest one, to me, I think, is this Stranger Things Season 5, which this thing has been in production for, I swear to God, three years. Like, it was three years ago when season four dropped. And these kids are now, like, in their mid-20s. Like, Millie Bobby Brown got married.
- [30:06]
Greg Horlbeck
Millie Bobby Brown got married. They're all in their early 20s, and it started when they were in their early teens, which for me, if I was an actor in the show, I would have gone from 5:2 to 6:2 as a character in the show. I was 5:2 when I was 13, and I'm 6:2 when I was 21.
- [30:22]
Matt Bellany
Yeah, they don't look Anything like it. Some of them. It's more unfortunate than others. But the prediction today, my prediction is I don't think the audience for Stranger Things 5 is going to be near what the audience was for season four. I think it's going to fall way short. Season four is still number three all time on the Netflix most watched list for English language TV series. It's behind Wednesday, season one and adolescence. That thing got to 140 million views on Netflix. But I don't think season five is going to get there. I just don't think people care as much anymore.
- [31:01]
Greg Horlbeck
I disagree completely. I think it's going to be enormous, and I don't think it matters.
- [31:04]
Matt Bellany
Oh, you do? Well, no, it's going to be big. I think it's for sure going to be big.
- [31:08]
Greg Horlbeck
I think it's going to be bigger than season four.
- [31:10]
Matt Bellany
You think it's going to be top three of all time?
- [31:13]
Greg Horlbeck
Yeah, I do. I don't think the three years does anything nowadays. People. There's so much content. People are just. When things come back, they are back.
- [31:22]
Matt Bellany
But not. It didn't work for Squid Game. Squid Game. Season two was not nearly as big as season one, and that was the biggest show of all time on Netflix.
- [31:31]
Greg Horlbeck
Yes. But Stranger Things was season four that was so successful. So I don't see why season five wouldn't follow suit. I think it's like the center of Netflix culture is Stranger Things. The horror element. The people in it are Emily. Bobby Brown is extremely famous and it's the finale.
- [31:46]
John Johnson
The.
- [31:46]
Greg Horlbeck
They're going to promote the shit out of it. I think it'll be huge.
- [31:49]
Matt Bellany
I totally disagree. I think it'll be big, but it will not be one or two. I mean, Wednesday and adolescence and Stranger Things 4, that's where we are. And Stranger Things 3 is still number 10 on the all time list for Netflix. 94 million views. So I don't know. Plus the length of these episodes. I mean, Jesus Christ, how long are these episodes? Like two hour episodes of tv?
- [32:12]
Greg Horlbeck
I can't argue with you there. The Duffer brothers wanted every. I think every episode of the final season's like a movie, basically, which I don't. I hate that. But regardless, I think it'll be successful.
- [32:21]
Matt Bellany
I mean, I guess it chews up minutes on Netflix, but now they divide the runtime by the viewership number and get the views. So I don't think views are going to get anywhere near, but we'll see. All right, that's the show for today. I want to thank my guest John Johnson, producer Craig Horlbeck, our editor, Jesse Lopez and I want to thank you. We'll see you one more time this week.