Podcast Summary: The Town with Matthew Belloni
Episode: Colbert Is Cancelled. Is the Late-Night Dam Bursting?
Release Date: July 19, 2025
Host: Matthew Belloni (The Ringer)
Guest: Nick Bernstein, Veteran Late Night TV Executive and Producer
Introduction
In this episode of The Town with Matthew Belloni, host Matt Belloni delves into the shocking news of Stephen Colbert's cancellation on CBS, questioning whether this marks the beginning of the end for traditional late-night television. Bringing in Nick Bernstein, a seasoned late-night TV executive, the discussion navigates the intricate web of economic challenges, political influences, and the evolving landscape of media consumption that are reshaping the future of late-night shows.
Cancellation of Stephen Colbert and the Future of Late Night
[00:36 - 04:07]
The episode opens with the announcement that CBS has fired Stephen Colbert, ending The Late Show franchise next May. Despite being the number one show in broadcast late night, it now garners only about 2.5 million viewers on linear television. Matt Belloni highlights the multifaceted reasons behind this decision, intertwining economic strains with potential political motivations.
Matt Belloni: "Colbert doesn't have as big of a digital footprint on YouTube and TikTok and Instagram, where most of us watch these late night clips these days."
[05:07]
Economic Challenges Facing Late-Night Shows
[04:12 - 11:13]
Belloni turns to Bernstein to unpack the economic realities that have long jeopardized the viability of late-night programming. Bernstein shares his extensive experience, noting that budget cuts and declining ad revenues have been persistent issues even before the COVID-19 pandemic.
Nick Bernstein: "The ad revenue for all of Late night is down 50% over the past seven years and still the late show costs more than $100 million a year to produce."
[06:29]
Bernstein explains that despite efforts to reduce costs, such as transitioning from The Late Late Show with James Corden to After Midnight, the shows continue to lose money, emphasizing the unsustainable nature of maintaining high-budget productions with diminishing returns.
Nick Bernstein: "Especially Colbert. And I think it's primarily economic. With the politics cloud hovering over everything."
[06:29]
Political Influences and Corporate Decisions
[11:13 - 24:34]
The conversation shifts to the potential political motivations behind Colbert's cancellation. Bernstein maintains a cautious stance, acknowledging the optics without definitive evidence of direct political interference.
Matt Belloni: "It probably did not hurt that letting him go would appease Trump at a key moment."
[06:29]
Belloni posits a conspiracy theory suggesting that George Cheeks, co-CEO at Paramount and head of CBS, might be preemptively making cuts to align with new ownership under Skydance, thereby reducing future pressures on incoming executives.
Matt Belloni: "George Cheeks... is planning to go over to the new regime when Skydance takes it over."
[22:08]
Bernstein, however, refrains from commenting on the internal corporate dynamics, focusing instead on the broader economic pressures and the necessity for networks to make difficult financial decisions.
Nick Bernstein: "I don't really know anything about the machinations of the decisions that went into this week."
[23:10]
The Decline of Traditional Late-Night Formats
[24:34 - 32:08]
Belloni and Bernstein discuss the shifting media consumption habits, noting the rise of streaming platforms and digital content consumption over traditional linear TV. They debate whether the late-night format, rooted in the linear era, can adapt to the streaming age or is destined to wane.
Matt Belloni: "The economic model is broken in television. And unless they could find a way to pay for the TV shows via the digital revenue, which has not happened yet, they are going to slowly, one by one, go, go away."
[31:29]
Bernstein remains cautiously optimistic about the adaptability of late-night shows, suggesting that the essence of late-night—talent incubation and star-making—can find new avenues in digital spaces, even as the traditional model faces existential threats.
Nick Bernstein: "I think there is value there... and I hope it's not too late for the broadcast networks of the world to continue to figure this out. But time will tell."
[32:01]
Potential Survivors and the Path Forward
[25:00 - 30:29]
The discussion turns to which late-night hosts might withstand the current turmoil. Belloni speculates that Jimmy Fallon could be the last man standing due to his strong network presence and diversified roles within NBC.
Matt Belloni: "I actually think Fallon will be the last man standing in Late Night because he and Myers are signed through 2028..."
[26:09]
Bernstein emphasizes the unique value each host brings, highlighting the distinct futures they might pursue—whether continuing on television, transitioning to digital platforms, or exploring other media ventures.
Nick Bernstein: "The hosts as well, when they have ideas have sold left and right and you have to find the ways."
[13:48]
Adaptation to Digital Platforms
[30:47 - 32:04]
Belloni and Bernstein explore the potential for late-night shows to migrate to digital formats, such as podcasts or YouTube channels. While acknowledging the challenges, Bernstein believes that the DNA of late-night can thrive in these new mediums, even if the traditional broadcast format diminishes.
Nick Bernstein: "I like to think of it as the DNA of late night is imbued in a lot of different places... there's different ways in."
[31:10]
Belloni concurs, noting the necessity for late-night shows to innovate and adapt financially to sustain their presence in an evolving media landscape.
Matt Belloni: "They just got to find a way to pay for it... if you can't find a way via the digital revenue."
[31:29]
Conclusion
The episode concludes with reflections on the uncertain future of late-night television. While the economic and political pressures present formidable challenges, there remains a glimmer of hope that the essence of late-night—its humor, star power, and cultural relevance—can find new life beyond traditional broadcast platforms.
Nick Bernstein: "I remain optimistic about the late night format... Hopefully, it's not too late for the broadcast networks to continue to figure this out."
[32:01]
Notable Quotes
-
Matt Belloni:
"It's actually really fascinating. First, the economics."
[05:06] -
Nick Bernstein:
"The ad revenue for all of Late night is down 50% over the past seven years and still the late show costs more than $100 million a year to produce."
[06:29] -
Matt Belloni:
"The traditional late night format, a relic of the linear era, where it will now slowly and painfully, one by one, go away."
[14:34] -
Nick Bernstein:
"There is value in these shows... They can sell advertisers that advertisements that are gonna make as much money as it costs to do those shows."
[27:34] -
Matt Belloni:
"They just got to find a way to pay for it. And that's the tough spot because I do think that the economic model is broken in television."
[31:29]
This detailed summary encapsulates the critical discussions and insights from The Town with Matthew Belloni episode, providing a comprehensive overview for those who haven't listened to the full podcast.