David Ellison’s $150M Bet on Bari Weiss and a New-Look CBS News

Summary

The Town with Matthew Belloni

Episode Title: David Ellison’s $150M Bet on Bari Weiss and a New-Look CBS News
Date: October 7, 2025
Host: Matthew Belloni
Guest: Ben Smith (Co-founder and Editor in Chief, Semafor; former media columnist, NYT; ex-BuzzFeed News chief)
Main Theme:
A deep dive into the blockbuster move by David Ellison—acquiring Bari Weiss’s media company, The Free Press, for $150M and installing Weiss as editor-in-chief of CBS News—as well as the implications for the future of CBS, the role of partisan vs. centrist news, Ellison’s real motivations, and what this means for American media.

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Episode Overview

Matthew Belloni and guest Ben Smith analyze the motivations and implications behind tech heir and Paramount Global chairman David Ellison’s $150M purchase of Bari Weiss’s The Free Press, and Weiss's surprise appointment as CBS News’ editor-in-chief. They explore what this signals for CBS’s direction, media partisanship, Ellison’s business and political calculus, and the downstream impact on America’s news and cultural landscape.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Did David Ellison Acquire The Free Press and Hire Bari Weiss?

• Ellison’s Motivation:

  • Belloni theorizes Ellison is motivated by pro-Israel sentiment and the politics of CBS coverage under previous owners (Redstones).
  • Suggests Ellison may want to reassure supporters of Israel (including Shari Redstone and possibly Donald Trump) by controlling CBS’s coverage ([05:26]).
    • “I do believe this is a little bit of a conspiracy theory... but I do believe that he made a promise to Shari Redstone... that he will use Paramount and CBS in particular to defend Israel.” — Matt Belloni, [05:26]
  • Ellison also needs to curry favor with the Trump administration for business reasons (e.g., future mergers or acquisitions).

• Weiss’s Appeal:

  • Ben Smith: Bari Weiss is not a traditional news executive but a media figure who appeals strongly to the billionaire, tech-mogul class ([04:47], [12:04]).
  • Her Substack/Free Press caters to ex-Democrats and “radical centrists” and provides a “cover” for fiscal conservatives or pro-Israel, socially liberal circles.
  • “[Weiss]…serves as an ombudsman for the billionaire class.” — Matt Belloni, [12:06]

2. Perceptions & Realities at CBS News

• CBS News: A Legacy Brand in Crisis?

  • Ben Smith says CBS News is a shadow of its former self, a “Titanic that has already hit the iceberg” ([08:58]).
    • “CBS News…a tiny part of CBS, 3% of the business.” — Ben Smith, [07:03]
    • “Obviously the worst managed [of the networks], in a state of rolling crisis forever.” — Ben Smith, [07:33]
  • 60 Minutes remains the #1 news show by viewership, but skews heavily to older demos ([07:47]).

• Is Weiss the Change Agent Ellison Wants?

  • Ellison positions Weiss as a cure for toxic partisanship, but both hosts note her style is defined by embracing divisive cultural fights and engaging on one side ([14:30]).
    • “You take someone who is a candy maker and put them in charge of the President’s Physical Fitness Group.”— Matt Belloni, [14:05]

• Is This a Smart Business Move?

  • There is skepticism: “Will [a centrist CBS News] work? CNN tried this and their ratings are anemic.” — Matt Belloni, [14:51]
  • Ben Smith responds: “In today’s media, that is the path to having no viewers.” ([17:02])

3. Business Realities and Media Trends

• Does Broadcast News Have a Future?

  • Belloni: “I would rather own CBS News now than CNN. At least [CBS] has the broadcast channel as its promo platform.” ([17:24])
  • Ben Smith questions this, noting that cable’s cashflow might better support a digital pivot ([18:18]).

• Reporting Structure and Power Dynamics

  • Weiss now reports directly to Ellison, giving her massive leverage over CBS staff ([20:05]).
  • Creates a potential culture clash: “She reports to the owner, and the guy running CBS News does not!”— Matt Belloni, [20:05]
  • Smith: “She came in and said, ‘Let’s do the fucking news.’” ([21:07])

4. Editorial Direction and Consequences

• Predicting the New Look CBS News

  • Both anticipate:
    • More favorable Israel coverage ([24:29])
    • Promise of “heterodox voices” and coverage outside the mainstream's previous comfort zones.
    • Profiles of tech billionaires, countercultural right-wing figures, and “ambitious stuff” from outside the traditional sphere ([25:29]).

• Will Viewers Notice?

  • Smith is skeptical most traditional CBS viewers will detect a shift, unless it is telegraphed via major stories or “bombshells.” ([25:33])
  • Belloni: “Everything you’re telling me about Bari Weiss suggests... she wants some major story that announces her reign at CBS News.” ([25:48])

• Potential High-Profile Stories

  • Expect “big, divisive deep dives”—possibly interviews with J.D. Vance, Trump, or profiles of figures like J.K. Rowling ([26:25], [27:41]).

• Conflict of Interest and Perceived Bias

  • Persistent concern over whether Ellison has pledged favorable coverage to Trump or curried favor for future deals ([09:10]).
  • “The hardest part…is the burden of proof that they aren’t really corrupted.” — Ben Smith, [26:59]

5. Notable Quotes and Moments

• On David Ellison’s Motivations:

  • “Perhaps [Ellison] said to Donald Trump, perhaps he’s excited about the notion of someone who has defended some of his culture-war stuff being in that position.” — Matt Belloni, [05:26]

• On Bari Weiss’s Style:

  • “She’s like an ombudsman for the billionaire class.” — Matt Belloni, [12:06]
  • “[The Free Press] is chaperoning people who used to be Democrats to the Republican Party.” — Ben Smith, [12:09]

• On CBS News’ Challenges:

  • “This is the Titanic that has already hit the iceberg that Barry is being hired to be editor-in-chief of.” — Ben Smith, [08:58]

• On Broadcast vs. Cable Futures:

  • “Cable has no future. Cable is the newspaper business that is going to just be milked and run into the ground.” — Matt Belloni, [17:58]

• Reporting Structure Power Play:

  • “She reports to the owner…She has leverage in every conversation.” — Matt Belloni, [20:05]
  • “She came in and said, ‘Let’s do the fucking news.’” — Ben Smith, [21:07]

• On the Longevity of the Weiss-Ellison Partnership:

  • “I have predicted…she will last a year.” — Matt Belloni, [22:34]
  • “It’s very on-brand for her to say fuck the money, I’m leaving...and starting a new website called The Even Freer Press.” — Matt Belloni, [22:42]
  • “I think much more likely, you spend a year working at a television network and after a year your forehead is bloodied from smashing it into the wall and you throw up your hands.” — Ben Smith, [23:00]

• On Editorial Changes Viewers Will Notice:

  • “You’ll see…openness to right wing—not even so much political—culture. Right wing people doing interesting, ambitious stuff who had been outside the coverage space.” — Ben Smith, [25:29]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [04:44] – Introduction of Ben Smith and his background
• [05:20] – Why does David Ellison want Bari Weiss?
• [06:51] – Ellison’s connections to Israel and speculation on deals with Trump
• [07:03] - [08:58] – CBS News’ diminished relevance, 60 Minutes’ legacy, and business reality
• [12:09] – The Free Press as “ombudsman for the billionaire class”; shifting political allegiances
• [14:30] – Bari Weiss as change agent or partisan actor?
• [15:29] - [18:53] – Is the new CBS News business model viable? Future of broadcast vs. cable
• [20:05] – Bari Weiss’s reporting structure and internal power dynamics
• [21:07] – Weiss’s entrance to staff: “Let’s do the fucking news.”
• [22:34] – How long will Bari Weiss last at CBS News?
• [24:29] – What changes will the average person see in CBS News coverage?
• [25:29] – Ben Smith’s prediction: more right-leaning, ambitious voices in coverage
• [25:33] – Belloni: Weiss will want a headline-grabbing story to mark her arrival
• [26:44] – What happens if Trump appears on live 60 Minutes?
• [26:59] – Burden of proof: Is CBS News now unduly influenced?
• [27:41] – Speculation on upcoming, possibly divisive CBS coverage
• [28:04] – Closing thanks between Belloni and Smith

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Memorable Moments & Tone

• Frequent, candid speculation about Ellison’s and Weiss’s true motivations, often laced with cynicism or tongue-in-cheek humor (“You take a candy-maker and put them in charge of the President’s Physical Fitness Group…”).
• Unfiltered skepticism about the efficacy and longevity of this strategy.
• Assessment that while CBS News’ old audience may not notice subtle ideological drift, Bari Weiss’s “disruptor” style is likely to create fireworks.
• Insider, lightly irreverent banter throughout—acknowledging the disconnect between media elites and the general population, and poking fun at legacy media business woes.

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Conclusion

The episode provides a sharply-informed, skeptical analysis of David Ellison's eye-popping investment in Bari Weiss as CBS News’ new boss, highlighting the strategic business, political, and cultural factors at play. While there’s appreciation for Weiss’s media savvy and audience-building skills, both Belloni and Smith are doubtful about the impact on ratings, the likelihood of depoliticized news, or the long-term stability of this experiment. The discussion closes with vivid predictions on editorial shake-ups, the likely rightward tilt in CBS News coverage, and the real possibility that the arrangement's most immediate effect is to please Ellison's peers, shareholders, and political allies—rather than revitalize the CBS brand.

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For listeners interested in Hollywood-business crossovers with media, the intersection of politics and journalism, and the future of legacy news brands, this episode is a rich, unvarnished must-listen.

Transcript

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[Matt Bellany]

It is Tuesday, October 7th. There's been a lot of early winners in the takeover of Paramount by the Ellison family. The UFC and South park both got new TV deals worth billions of dollars. On the film side, Will Smith got a big deal, as did Legendary Pictures, the Dune and Godzilla producer. They'll release new movies through Paramount, but none of them reaches the level of good fortune as Bari Weiss, new editor in chief of CBS News. If you're not familiar with Weiss, she is not a television news executive or producer. She's never actually made a minute of TV news, despite now leading maybe the best brand in TV news. Almost 60 Minutes, the highest rated news program in the country. No, Weiss is a former opinion editor and writer at the New York Times who quit in 2021 over what she called an overly woke newsroom and harassment from colleagues. She started a substack called the Free Press, a mostly opinion publication that has grown to 1.5 million readers and 150,000 paid subscribers. They say Weiss's politics and the politics of the Free Press. She calls herself a radical centrist, but it's a mix of some libertarianism, socially liberal stuff, very pro Israel, culturally trumpy on issues like dei. It's turned her into a new media star with lots of fans among venture capitalists and the billionaire tech mogul crowd. Barry and her wife were there next to Kim Kardashian at the wedding of Jeff Bezos and Lauren Sanchez this summer. Also a fan of the Free Press, David Ellison. To bring the 41 year old Weiss to CBS. He's buying the Free Press for about $150 million and cash in stock and installing her in one of the most influential perches in TV journalism. In announcing the move, Ellison told his staff that media is now often a platform that, quote, amplifies partisanship that is tearing our society apart, end quote. He said his goal is for CBS to reach the 70% of Americans who say they don't want partisan news and, quote, broaden our reach while solidifying our position as a leading voice in American journalism. Okay, so how does Bari Weiss accomplish that goal? Should we expect a radically different CBS News now and is that a smart business move at a time when supposedly down the middle outlets like CNN are struggling? Or does it even matter? Is CBS News just a small part of the overall Ellison empire and he just wants someone there who will placate Trump? Lot of questions. We've got Ben Smith here to discuss. Ben is the co founder of the new startup Semaphore and former media columnist for the New York Times. He also hosts the Mixed Signals podcast about media. Before that, he ran news at BuzzFeed. Today it's the Barry Weiss era at CBS News. And what is David Ellison really thinking from the ringer and puck? I'm Matt Bellany and this is the town. All right, we are here with Ben Smith, who is the co founder and editor in chief of Semaphore, returning champion on the show. Welcome back, Ben.

[Ben Smith]

Thank you for having me back, Matt. It's a great honor.

[Matt Bellany]

Oh, well, I appreciate that. As you know, I'm a big fan of yours and I appreciate your insights. And you have one thing that I do not in this situation. You know Bari Weiss. I do not know her. You'd think that we would travel in LA media circles, but not quite the same circles. She's hanging out with more billionaires than I do. But you do know Barry. So here's the Question for the town that we really care about, why does David Ellison want her so badly that he's willing to pay $150 million to get her?

[Ben Smith]

So, you know, David Ellison and I have met him once or twice, and so I don't know. You tell me.

[Matt Bellany]

Well, I have several theories. First of all, I think he cares very much about Israel, and I think she represents a change agent at cbs, where some of the coverage, particularly in the final years of the Redstones, was coverage of Israel that he didn't find to be fair and he wanted someone in there. I do believe this is a little bit of a conspiracy theory, but I do believe that he made a promise to Sherry Redstone, who also cares very much about Israel, that he will use Paramount and CBS in particular to defend Israel and to stand up for Israel. That is not something he has ever told me, and I am making my own speculation there. But I do believe that he cares very much. Sherry cares very much. Query whether he said that to Donald Trump at some point. We know that they had several meet and greets at UFC matches and elsewhere. And perhaps he said that to Donald Trump. Perhaps Donald Trump is excited about the notion of someone who has defended some of his culture war stuff being in that position. And David Ellison, being very savvy, knows that the Trump administration has just given him the green light to buy this company. He will likely have other matters in front of the Trump administration, maybe a purchase of Warner Brothers discovery that he would like to go through. So perhaps this is a message implicitly to Donald Trump that he believes in his stuff.

[Ben Smith]

So first of all, like, the idea that Donald Trump on the sidelines of a UFC fight is like, I love that Barry Weiss feels slightly impossible. You know What?

[Matt Bellany]

Welcome to 2025. That's what he does.

[Ben Smith]

I want to sort of talk about both of those things you said which are both so interesting. One is that right? Cherry Redstone, who, at least in my view, like, you know, managed this business straight into the ground, took CBS from being an important American news business to a company that had missed not only the. Missed the cable era and then missed the digital era and is now relevant solely to very elderly people and is, you know, in a state of like, as a business, CBS News, which, by the way, tiny part of CBS, 3% of the business.

[Matt Bellany]

Well, that's the other aspect is he doesn't really care, right?

[Ben Smith]

Doesn't really care. But even of flailing American television news networks, obviously the worst managed in a state of rolling crisis forever. You only hear about CBS when there's some internal mess, which there is annually for the last decade.

[Matt Bellany]

But number one news program in America. Just gonna say that. And I know the viewership is ancient, but those people vote. Donald Trump cares about it enough where he sued them.

[Ben Smith]

Wait, the evening ABC News is the number one evening news program in America?

[Matt Bellany]

No, the number one daily. But. But 60 Minutes has the most total viewers.

[Ben Smith]

60 Minutes, which, while we're talking about entertainment and sports and things like this in the show, has the lead in of NFL football, is the first watched news program and often does good stuff. But honestly, if you like, in covering media and thinking about me over the last few years, I hear more about 60 minutes because there was some scandal or somebody died than because they broke something.

[Matt Bellany]

Okay, but I know you care about Scoobs. I think CBS News and 60 Minutes is still important and that 60 Minutes in particular, as the number one television news program, still commands attention among a demo that still votes. And what other broadcast news operation is Donald Trump talking about? He cares about 60 Minutes because he knows people watch it.

[Ben Smith]

He was yelling about Fox yesterday at NBC the day before.

[Matt Bellany]

Okay, no, but those are. He cares about Fox. He cares about the cable news, but he's not talking about David Muir.

[Ben Smith]

No. It is true that 60 Minutes is an important brand and has some really brilliant people working for it, But I think broadly, this is the Titanic that has already hit the iceberg that Barry is being hired to be the editor in chief of. It's a very messy situation.

[Matt Bellany]

They're about to have huge layoffs.

[Ben Smith]

And I think the question of, like, was there. I mean, the. Sherry Redstone reportedly was very unhappy about the coverage of Israel. That's fascinating. Like the notion that she and Ellison had some arrangement around that. I think the thing that will really hang over whatever CBS does is this impression, which Ellison basically has refused to comment on, that they made a deal with the White House to be nicer. I don't think Barry is actually like, I would be. I have no idea if she voted for Trump. I don't think she said. But I would. But she's. I don't. She does not. She's not the kind of Republican who loves Donald Trump. And in fact, she basically left the Journal rather than be forced to support him. So I don't think she's particularly pro Trump. She's anti Trump's enemies, which for Trump is often good enough. But I think the bigger question is just literally, did the Ellisons, David and his father, who's put up the money and is close to president, make a deal to take it easy on him. And I think that will hang over every single thing they produce in air. And I think people will just have to judge them based on whether they can be tough about the most powerful person in the world or whether they're going to pull their punches. Like that's. That's the actual question.

[Matt Bellany]

Yeah, I mean, 60 Minutes led off the season with a very nice profile of Dana White, one of Trump's best friends. And they disclosed right up top. They've been working on it for a long time, pre sale. But this is the kind of thing that Donald Trump likes out of CBS News.

[Ben Smith]

They had a great exclusive today about how few immigrants are coming over the border and how great that's going to exclusive data they had obtained.

[Matt Bellany]

Oh, really?

[Ben Smith]

From the administration that had a great quote for it. Didn't say where they obtained it, but there was a warm quote from the administration.

[Matt Bellany]

The other thing I think is going on is I do think that David Ellison sees her as a successful new media person. The kind of content the Free Press produces has appeal to the billionaire class. It is that it sort of like provides a. I don't wanna say a shelter, but it provides a cover a little bit for the kind of formerly left or people who identify as left, but in reality lean, more fiscally conservative or they're drawn to these right wing causes like Israel. She gives them cover to say, no, no, no, no, I'm not a Republican. I do love the Free Press. And I think that, you know, Bari Weiss, who describes herself as a radical centrist, I think she says the truth and she's about both sides and she can bring some kind of perception or reality of centrism to these news institutions that are tainted by the perception that they are in the tank for the Democrats. That is what appeals to Ellison as a owner of News.

[Ben Smith]

Yeah, I mean, he's obviously in her target audience, right?

[Matt Bellany]

Yeah, exactly. She's like an ombudsman for the billionaire class.

[Ben Smith]

And we're in this moment of political resorting. And in a way what the Free Press has been doing is kind of chaperoning a group of people who used to be Democrats to the Republican Party. While you have publications like the Bulwark that are there to chaperone Republicans over to the Democratic Party.

[Matt Bellany]

And she's successful. I mean, we can't underestimate the fact that she built a subscription business that does, according to the New York Times, generate $15 million a year in revenue and has 150 million paid subscribers. 101.5 million people get her emails. So he looks at that and says, wait, maybe this is the answer to my CBS News problem.

[Ben Smith]

Yeah. And I mean, and you know, she came by those subscribers. Honestly, there's a huge group of people who, particularly of New York Times readers who thought. I mean, I imagine some might even listen to this podcast who thought, like, the New York Times got unbelievably kind of doctrinaire, left wing, kind of stilted, like, you weren't really sure what you were reading. And so here was somebody who'd left the Times and was saying that and said, come along with me and we'll do stuff that is fun and engaging and flatters your prejudices and, like, you know, what more does anybody ask for media?

[Matt Bellany]

Totally. And I talk to those people all the time in Hollywood.

[Ben Smith]

Wait, but do you not buy that? Pretty. You don't think that's true?

[Matt Bellany]

Listen, I'm not a media critic. I read the New York Times every day. I like the product. I recognize sometimes articles that feel like they're coming from the progressive playbook. I think the same way about the Wall Street Journal on the other side.

[Ben Smith]

But I don't think it's controversial like Joe Kahn. I think the editor of Times would tell you, basically did tell me in an interview, yeah, we got too left wing in 2020, and now we're trying to row it back. I think that the leadership of the New York Times agrees with that critique. Like, she clearly took a moment and reacted to it fast and had a. There was a big audience for that. That was real.

[Matt Bellany]

But what's interesting about Ellison is when he made this hire, he put in his statement, he said, the media is now a platform that, quote, amplifies partisanship that is tearing our society apart. So he sees Bari Weiss as a change agent for resolving conflict and resolving partisanship when she's pretty openly partisan about her views. And that's what I don't totally get is, like, you take. It's like, it's like taking someone who is a candy maker and putting them in charge of the President's physical fitness group. Like you're going to get someone who is advocating for a certain position.

[Ben Smith]

Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't say she's partisan in the sense she's a Republican or a Democrat, but she's obviously very engaged in the most heated and divisive social media fights and kind of culture wars. And on one side of them, you know, and I think these are conflicts in which the partisans want total victory and see Their opponents as monsters. And she's certainly in those deeply in those battles.

[Matt Bellany]

All right, so let's get to the business issues, because that's what we care about. Will this work? CNN went towards the middle in their mind, and the ratings on CNN are anemic. I mean, it's actually embarrassing. I was looking at the demo ratings for CNN. They're generating like 50, 60,000 viewers in the demo in primetime. I couldn't believe it. I was like, oh, my God, now Fox and MSNBC have a lot more viewers because they are openly partisan. Will Ellison's plan raise the ratings? Will it alienate 60 Minutes viewers? Will it backfire and tank the entire thing? Or does it even matter?

[Ben Smith]

First of all, I think it kind of doesn't. Like, CBS News is not an important part of Paramount, and it's not why he bought it. It's sort of a weird headache that he has to deal with. And I just think there is this question of, like, what. What is a broadcast news channel for now? And I, and I think the CBS News brand is very powerful. You could imagine some very dramatic and radical digital reinvention. And so remember, CBS doesn't really have a cable or a digital platform or not much of one. So it's in a really strange place. I mean, and like, they're not going to save broadcast television. Like, that's not so that's not anybody's fault. But like, that ship is clearly sinking. And then in a world where there's no broadcast television or a broadcast is really like, I don't know what, like, uh, we think of as like, what UHF is a really fringy part of the media environment. What is CBS News? Where does it live? Who watches it? How does it support the kind of cost structure it now has? I mean, I wouldn't want to be in the position of trying to solve those problems. I don't think anybody working there has any experience in trying to fix that. I mean, Barry does bring at least a sense of kind of like cultural. Could bring a level of cultural relevance by having bitter fights with people which.

[Matt Bellany]

Traditionally has not been the CBS brand?

[Ben Smith]

And you could, I suppose, like, Fox has vastly a bigger audience than everybody else. And is there a world where you could say we're going to try to slice off the younger part of Fox News that is embarrassed by some of its programming that's aimed at older people?

[Matt Bellany]

Yeah. Ellison says we want CBS to speak to, to that 70% of the audience that would really define themselves as center left to center right.

[Ben Smith]

I mean, that's just sadly in today's media that is the path to having no viewers.

[Matt Bellany]

I mean, who is he talking to with that? I think he's just talking to satisfy shareholders, satisfy the president. I don't know who he's talking to because that has proven to not work.

[Ben Smith]

Well, the risk is that the. Or the risk, or maybe the goal is that you wind up programming essentially for the board of directors.

[Matt Bellany]

Yeah. Or to not cause problems for the other aspects of your business that you do actually care about. And there are elements. I mean, listen, I sort of rather own CBS News right now than cnn because CBS News at least has the broadcast channel as its promotional platform and those seem to be at least a viable business right now rather than cable networks, which other than Fox, are kind of lagging and don't have much of a future. CNN now trying to reinvent itself as a streamer.

[Ben Smith]

You think broadcast has more of a future than cable?

[Matt Bellany]

Yeah, I do. Cable has no future. Cable is the newspaper business that is going to just be milked and run into the ground and broadcast because the sports are there and because they are free and there is a government mandate for them to keep going, they will at least have a future for the next decade or two.

[Ben Smith]

I think that's really interesting. I think I've typically thought of it, maybe I'm wrong as the opposite, which is just that cable, although is obviously in decline, is just throwing off enough cash to try to fund a digital transition like CNN. I think Lazarus said the Versant companies had maybe 770 million in revenue five years ago, 700 million today. That's obviously like a catastrophic trend, but it's also a big number.

[Matt Bellany]

It is, but how much did the Chicago Tribune Throw off 10 years ago, 20 years ago, or Los Angeles Times and then look at them today? I think that's the way we need to talk about these things.

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[Matt Bellany]

The reporting structure on Bari Weiss is interesting, too. She reports directly to Ellison, her quote, unquote partner, who is actually running CBS News. Tom Zabrowski. He reports to George Cheeks, who runs the TV unit, who reports to Jeff Shell, who's the number two, who reports to David Ellison. So Barry has the leverage in every conversation with anyone at CBS News. She reports to the owner of the company, and the guy running CBS News ostensibly does not.

[Ben Smith]

Yeah. And, you know, again, she does have, I think, genuinely, you know, came in with a lot of positive energy in a way. Like, I think people there are very freaked out by her. It's also one of these places that has been, you know, invented and reinvented, had new waves of leadership. The kind of person who's still there is kind of a survivor.

[Matt Bellany]

Yeah. And the new leaders always get purged or something.

[Ben Smith]

Some scandal or something. Yeah. And it's certainly full of people who are used to ignoring radical new statements from the top. But she came in and said, let's do the. This morning, I guess, and said, let's do the fucking news.

[Matt Bellany]

She did. Oh, that's amazing. She's also 41. Something to be said here for a millennial. I know you're a big chronicler of the millennials.

[Ben Smith]

We love the millennials. They get a bad rap.

[Matt Bellany]

What color is the dress, Ben? Tell us once and for all.

[Ben Smith]

It's blue and black. We had it in the buzzfeed office. The original. Yeah. But I think that's. It's obviously an incredibly unstable situation. Imagine if. I mean, the idea that somebody who reports to your boss's boss is sitting next to you and kind of directing things, but maybe doesn't really have line responsibility.

[Matt Bellany]

She's like a narc. Say something about Palestine and the owner of the company is going to know about it.

[Ben Smith]

And meanwhile, running a television network is, again, like, it's not like running kind of digital media that I've run. It's like running a factory. Right. Like, it's. It's. And so there's a whole layer of television stuff that is not to be taken lightly, that shows, you know, have to figure out. And I do think, though, it's, you know, the Thing when you sell you in this kind of transaction, although I don't know the details of this one, it's not like David Ellison said, here's a pile of cash, we'd love you to stick around, but if it doesn't work out, go with God. You know, it's an earn. I'm sure there is a earn out over a period of three or five or seven years, you know, and it's being paid in various. The, the headline price tag of a lot of money. $150 million is being no doubt paid out in some way that is meant to incent management meaning Barry, to stick around and add value. But that's, you know, that means that this is kind of. They're married, right?

[Matt Bellany]

Although I have predicted on this very show that she will last a year.

[Ben Smith]

Yeah, but the, but the, but the terms of this kind of engagement make that complicated.

[Matt Bellany]

True, but don't you also think it's very on brand for her to say fuck the money, I'm leaving. I'm standing up for my principles and I'm starting a new website called the Even Freer Press to get away from the mainstream media that I was now a part of. And I can talk all about all the things that were wrong with CBS News and why I bailed on it.

[Ben Smith]

No, I don't think that's right. I'm much less sinful than you. I think she has the courage if believes in what she believes in and wants to move the needle on it. I think much more likely you spend a year working at a television network and after a year your forehead is bloodied from smashing it into the wall and you throw up your hands. But I don't even. I doubt over some. I mean, I guess there's something that makes me a little sad and this is probably why I made one of my own great quot career mistakes which was telling Jonah Peretti not to sell BuzzFeed to Disney. But the idea that like the best possible outcome for a hot new media property is to sell to some like terminally ill dinosaur is just sort of depressing, honestly. And like I hope, you know, I hope it can be revived. But that's. And you know, whatever, I will eat. So maybe someday, you know, I will eat my words. But it is, there is just something like the idea that you come in with all these ideas about the sort of power of the digital space and reinventing media and you wind up cbs.

[Matt Bellany]

Speak for yourself. The Town is available to be sold to arp, the ARP magazine, biggest magazine In America, please come and come and buy the town. I know you have to be 60 years old to get it, but we are available. All right, so how does an average person see the difference here? Are we going to start to see more favorable Israel coverage out of cbs? You mentioned that story today about immigration. Is this going to be the Trump News Network, or are only people like you and me gonna notice this stuff and our parents who watch 60 Minutes are not gonna even notice?

[Ben Smith]

Let's see. I think that, yeah, you're not gonna. Obviously you'll see more favorable coverage of Israel one way or the other. Lots of ways. And I guess I think that you'll see kind of like the kind of sort of heterodox voices that Barry likes coming on. Like, you know, I mean, someone who I've always found, like a little, I don't know, hard to take. But Michael Shellenberger, who's this sort of San Francisco anti kind of voice saying San Francisco's out of control. I don't know, maybe you'll see like the all in guys or Marc Andreessen or Peter Thiel or profiles of Ann Durill. I'm trying to think of the Hollywood. Who in Hollywood is gonna get sort of their sort of countercultural right wing movies celebrated now? But I think you'll just see more openness to right wing. I would say not even so much political culture, like right wing people doing interesting, ambitious stuff who had been outside the coverage space of the mainstream media. And I think that actually, honestly, I don't think that's a good thing. I think there are like huge blind spots.

[Matt Bellany]

That's, that's actually the best case scenario where you do get a broader perspective.

[Ben Smith]

That said, your, your idea that the average person is going to know that CBS News, like, if only like, they were not 1958. Like, what would CBS After News News have to change to get someone's attention to the fact that CBS News had changed is like a hard question.

[Matt Bellany]

It is, except everything you're telling me about Barry Weiss suggests that that's what she wants. She wants some major story that announces her arrival and reign at CBS News. Whether she wants to go counter to the narrative and launch some huge bombshell about Trump, or whether she wants to expose the inner circle around Joe Biden and do some story that changes the narrative on the Biden presidency. Everything you're telling me about her suggests she wants to make noise. She said she likes to win and she wants average people to know that the new CBS News is different.

[Ben Smith]

Yeah, I think that's right. And I think that'll be true in politics. Like, maybe, like, I don't know. I would. I would expect a big J.D. vance interview, I guess, maybe.

[Matt Bellany]

Well, they're talking to Trump. CBS 60 Minutes is talking to Trump again.

[Ben Smith]

Yeah, yeah. They're talking about doing a Trump interview. Trump is negotiating to have it be live so that it can't be edited. That's Max Taney scoop.

[Matt Bellany]

That's the thing, though, is, like, David Ellison wants news down the middle in both sides. But what happens if the President is on 60 Minutes and starts lying? What does David Ellison expect them to do if he starts lying during an interview on 60 Minutes Live?

[Ben Smith]

I mean, David Ellison, when were you. They did this press event in New York and was asked about whether he had made a secret deal with Trump and basically just wouldn't discuss it. You know, like, that's. I mean, that is just the price of doing business in today's Washington is accommodating the President of the United States. And that's. And clearly that's the school of business that the Ellisons are coming from here. And I just think, actually, the hardest part of this for them is to be the burden of proof that, like, that they aren't really corrupted. And I don't really. I think it'd be hard to, in a sort of literal way, corrupt that operation. But it's. That's a messy shadow to have hanging over you. But I don't know. I bet, like, I bet there will be a big, divisive deep dive on detransitioners and a celebratory profile of J.K. rowling, for instance.

[Matt Bellany]

No, no, that one. I don't know if it'll be celebratory, but I could see her feeling that she has a voice now, and she could do a 60 Minutes profile and they would bend over backwards to make sure that it was fair, but she would have her say and get her voice out there.

[Ben Smith]

I would say more than fair. Like, I. I just think, like, Barry has a different set of heroes than her predecessors, and you'll see that.

[Matt Bellany]

All right, thank you. Appreciate the time. Ben.

[Ben Smith]

Yeah. Good to see you, Matt. Thank you.

[Matt Bellany]

We are back with the call sheet. Craig, I don't even want to ask. Does the Tron franchise mean anything to you?

[Craig Horlbeck]

Not at all. I'm baffled by the idea that this is being made again. I don't know any Tron fans, respectfully.

[Matt Bellany]

Well, okay. Tron Legacy in 2010 made $400 million at the time, which at the time was The. The automatic trigger for you get another movie if you hit 400 million. But it just took 15 years. There wasn't another movie.

[Craig Horlbeck]

I remember the Daft Punk soundtrack being a thing, but I remember the 2010 one being. Being panned.

[Matt Bellany]

Yeah. Not a lot of fans. I mean, I think Jeff Bridges. I saw it. Jeff Bridges was good in it. Interesting. Joseph Kaczynski directed that, who went on to do Top Gun F1. But at the time, this was his big, like, showy studio movie. And I don't want to say he was in director jail, but I don't think it did much for his career, that movie.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Yeah, I mean, it was early on for. For Kaczynski and he was honing his action movie craft.

[Matt Bellany]

So now it's back. They got rid of Olivia Wilde and Garrett Hedlund and went all in on Jared Leto, who is the star of this movie. And this movie cost $200 million. Disney is admitting to $200 million. I have heard more than. But Disney is saying $200 million, which seems like a lot. The premise is good, though. It is. Tron comes to the real world, which I think is interesting.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Is it the tagline? We have created the most sophisticated AI soldier of all time or something?

[Matt Bellany]

Yeah. They're trying to do the AI thing, which. I don't know. Maybe that'll work. But interestingly, this movie has a kind of a fun backstory. Sean Bailey, who produced Tron legacy in 2010, they were happy with him on that movie, and he ended up getting the job as head of production at Disney, based in part on that movie. And then when he left Disney, I believe that was three years ago now.

[Ben Smith]

Two.

[Matt Bellany]

Three years ago now. One of the things he took with him was making this movie. So he sort of greenlit the sequel to his own movie and then ended up producing it. And we'll see now if it does. Well, Sean, very nice guy. And I don't know, man. The tracking on this is 46 according to NRG.

[Craig Horlbeck]

That feels high to me.

[Matt Bellany]

See, that's funny. It's not. That's not that high for a movie that costs this much, but I actually kind of agree with you. The review's not great. Metacritic has it below 50 right now, and I don't know. I just don't. Jared Leto, like, is he still a draw? Tron. It feels a little old. They do have the roller coasters at two of the parks, and Tron does have fans, but I think I'm going to take the under. Let's set the line at 45. Okay. I think I'm going to take the under.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Yeah, I think this movie makes.

[Matt Bellany]

I know where you stand.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Yeah, I'll take the under. I think this movie take making 400 plus in 2010 is just a good example of where we were at that time versus now when like the superhero stuff was just kicking off. It's like new kind of like CGI generated action film was just like taking off and entering a new era. And to me, we're completely on the other side of that now. And this just feels like stale ip.

[Matt Bellany]

You think so? Yeah, I kind of agree. Although it has been reinvigorated a little bit via the parks. You know, this movie arguably will juice interest in the roller coasters at the two parks. I believe it's Florida and I think they have it in either Hong Kong or Shanghai. But, you know, it falls into that who is this for? Category, And I'm not sure this movie at that price is for enough people. Could be wrong though. Want to be wrong.

[Craig Horlbeck]

Maybe the tracking is set artificially low so that it can exceed expectations, but.

[Matt Bellany]

Well, yeah, of course. I mean, everyone does that, but NRG and the others are designed hopefully to account for that. And I'm not sure, but the under on 45, we'll see. Okay, that's the show for today. I want to thank my guest, Ben Smith, producer Craig Horlbeck, artist Jesse Lopez, and I want to thank you. We'll see you one more time this week.