How Larry Ellison’s Trump Bromance Is Helping WarnerMount

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Town with Matthew Belloni

Episode Title: How Larry Ellison’s Trump Bromance Is Helping WarnerMount

Host: Matt Belloni
Guest: Emily Glaser (Pulitzer Prize-winning reporter, Wall Street Journal)
Release Date: June 26, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the role of tech billionaire Larry Ellison behind the massive merger between Paramount and Warner Brothers—now dubbed "WarnerMount." With a particular focus on Ellison’s unusually close relationship with Donald Trump, the discussion explores how personal connections, political donations, and strategic alliances at the highest echelons of power are shaping what could become the most significant media deal in Hollywood’s history. Guest Emily Glaser, whose Wall Street Journal reporting unearthed the story, offers insights into the intersection of money, power, politics, and family within this deal.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Larry Ellison’s Wealth & Influence

• [03:30] Ellison remains one of the wealthiest people globally, recently ranked #6 on the Bloomberg Billionaires Index with an estimated $211 billion.
  • Emily Glaser: “He is still top 10... a whopping $211 billion.”
• Compared favorably to Mark Zuckerberg, highlighting Ellison’s stature even among tech elites.

2. Ellison in the Paramount-Warner Brothers Merger

• [04:16] The prevailing narrative has cast David Ellison (Larry’s son) as the merger's mastermind, but recent WSJ reporting points to Larry as a much more active and influential force.
  • Matt Belloni: “Larry...has kind of greased the wheels here with a undisclosed $45 million donation to the Trump campaign...been the, if not the puppeteer behind this...”
  • Emily Glaser: “Larry is not just the money man...there’s a genuine friendship [with Trump].”

3. The Larry Ellison–Donald Trump Relationship

• [05:51] Ellison and Trump have developed a personal rapport, grounded in similarities: both octogenarian billionaires, both politically conservative, both have shared business interests.

  • Emily Glaser: “These are friends with benefits...friends with business benefits.”

• [07:09] Ellison has physically moved close to Trump in Florida, and their frequent phone calls point to an active, ongoing relationship.

  • Emily Glaser: “They do talk a lot...Larry Ellison officially changed his residence to Florida, just about 20 minutes south of Mar-a-Lago.”

• [07:44] Their shared worldview includes a strong pro-Israel stance and skepticism (even antipathy) toward mainstream media.

4. Political and Ideological Motivations

• [08:26] Ellison's pro-Israel views influence both his business and media dealings.
• Both Ellison and Trump dislike traditional media coverage and have formed an alliance based on shared adversaries and mutual benefit.
  • Emily Glaser: “For many years...Larry’s been the Oracle guy...He has tiptoed more and more into these other elements of media and technology where they overlap. And the Trump administration has helped him a lot along the way.”

5. Ellison's Political Donations and Influence on the Merger

• [04:16]–[09:59] Ellison provided significant financial support to Trump’s campaign ($45M+), directly preceding the Skydance/Paramount merger.
• Other high-profile, often undisclosed, donations have followed, helping to secure favorable treatment for the deal.
• The relationship helped the merger achieve a rapid regulatory greenlight from the Trump-run DOJ.
  • Matt Belloni: “...the Trump Justice Department just gave an okay to the WarnerMount merger pretty much sight unseen.”

6. The Family Dynamic and Succession

• [13:23] The popular narrative of a loving father supporting his son's dreams is challenged. Their relationship has been complex, with Larry seen as the true strategic mastermind.
  • Emily Glaser: “As is widely out there, Larry Ellison and David Ellison have not just had some like happy go lucky father-son rapport their whole lives...Larry is an absolute mastermind.”

7. Funding Details and Foreign Capital

• [16:28]–[18:36] Question raised as to why Ellison didn’t fully bankroll the deal, instead assembling additional financing from Saudi, Abu Dhabi, and Qatari backers.
  • Emily Glaser: “No matter how wealthy you are, there’s always how much of that cash is liquid...He’s not putting all his money in the Paramount basket.”

8. Ethics, Optics, and Regulatory Norms

• [22:57] Revelation that David Ellison lobbied Paramount board members over a Trump litigation settlement prior to owning the company—casting further doubt on ethical boundaries.

  • Emily Glaser [on David’s behind-the-scenes activities]: “Around this time, David Ellison calls a Paramount director...he was very eager for this merger to close and he heard it would take $49.5 million to settle.”

• [25:27] Matt raises the appearance (though not outright accusation) of corruption in the close Trump–Ellison ties and their impact on regulatory approval.

  • Matt Belloni: “I just want to call it an extremely close relationship...Is that a fair way to assess it?”

• [25:52] Glaser contextualizes this as another example of big money greasing political wheels—but emphasizes the unprecedented scale and proximity of the current arrangement.

  • Emily Glaser: “It’s the scale here of the amount of money...some very clear what seem to be advantages that...are happening.”

• [27:10] Discussion on increasingly brazen political giving—with much of Ellison’s cash entering the system as "dark money" via undisclosed channels.

9. Regulatory Landscape and Future Risks

• [28:07]–[31:03] Uncertainty over whether Democratic victories in Congress could unravel or retroactively challenge the WarnerMount merger. Likelihood is low due to technicalities of antitrust law and the speed at which deals are being pushed through.
  • Emily Glaser: “A lot of deals...have gone through very quickly. There’s been a lot of business practices that have happened...It’s a much lower regulatory environment that businesses...are very happy about.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Larry & Trump as Peers
  • Emily Glaser [05:51]: “These are friends with benefits, and a different kind than what we’re usually used to hearing...Friends with business benefits.”
• On Ellison’s Shift to Trump
  • Emily Glaser [10:36]: “He was a huge backer of Tim Scott going into the 2024 presidential race, only switched to Trump...once he saw...Trump was going to be the Republican nominee.”
• On the Ethics of Power & Money
  • Emily Glaser [25:52]: “The scale here of the amount of money. And...it wasn’t just the $45 million...Larry has given millions since then...It’s the scale of the money. And then there’s some very clear what seem to be advantages that...are happening.”
• On Hollywood’s Regulatory Wild West
  • Emily Glaser [27:20]: “It’s different. It’s more money, there’s more closeness...It’s the wild west out there right now.”
• On the Future of Regulatory Scrutiny
  • Emily Glaser [30:19]: “...companies are thinking we might have just a couple months to go before things could change. So what do we need to do to get our stuff over the finish line and be in the clear?”

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• [03:30] – Rankings of Ellison’s wealth and place in the billionaire hierarchy
• [04:16] – Ellison’s role in the WarnerMount merger and how WSJ’s story changes the narrative
• [05:51] – The Larry Ellison–Donald Trump friendship and rapport
• [07:44] – Shared ideology: Israel, media skepticism, and generational ties
• [14:14] – The family dynamic: Larry as mastermind, not just a supportive father
• [16:28] – The decision to use foreign capital rather than bankroll the deal solo
• [22:57] – David Ellison’s pre-acquisition lobbying and the optics
• [25:27] – “Corruption” vs. normalized power alliances
• [28:07] – Transparency in donations, growth of dark money, and current political climate
• [29:00] – DOJ’s chilling of Netflix/WB deal and path cleared for the Ellisons
• [30:19] – Future of regulation, speed of dealmaking, and what’s next under potential Democratic control

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Style & Tone

The conversation is sharp, skeptical, and tinged with the kind of wry, insider perspective characteristic of Belloni’s style. Both speakers are direct but careful with language, noting the nuances and realpolitik of Hollywood and D.C.'s intersecting spheres. Glaser’s reporting brings a meticulous, detail-oriented approach, while Belloni peppers the interview with industry wit and contextual color.

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For Listeners Who Missed the Episode

This episode offers a behind-the-scenes look at how the personal and financial relationships between the world’s richest men and the most powerful politicians continue to dictate not just regulatory outcomes, but the future landscape of Hollywood itself. At the heart of the Paramount-Warner Brothers merger is not only blockbuster financing but invisible strings—personal friendships, political donations, and a long-game strategy to rewire Hollywood’s power structure for the 21st century. The revelations about previously undisclosed political donations, personal lobbying efforts, and the ever-evolving Ellison family dynamic provide a vivid illustration of how modern media empires are built—and who really holds the keys.

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Transcript

[Matt Bellany]

Adobe Firefly is the all in one creative studio with AI powered image and video editing for today's creative process. Built for creators of every kind, Firefly helps you generate, edit and experiment fast because the asks aren't getting smaller, the budgets aren't getting bigger, and the timelines? Oh yeah, still tight. With all the best creative AI models in one place, Firefly brings your ideas to life. Unlock a better way to make with Adobe Firefly. This episode of the Town is presented by HBO Max for your awards consideration. Max presents Hacks, the Emmy Award winning series starring Jean Smart and Hannah Einbinder. In the aftermath of mistaken news reports that Deborah passed away, she and Ava returned to Las Vegas determined to secure Deborah's legacy as a comedian. Don't miss the series Variety is calling one of TV's best comedies ever. Hacks is streaming on HBO Max. Watch now. It is Friday, June 26th throughout the ongoing saga of Paramount buying Warner Brothers, there's been one figure quietly hovering over Larry Ellison. He does no media interviews and is rarely photographed, yet he's been one of the richest men in the world for decades now. As the founder of Oracle, Ellison used to make headlines for his extravagant Malibu homes or buying a Hawaiian island, or bankrolling the Indian Wells tennis tournament America's cup sailing competition. But These days, at 81 years old, he's in the news mostly because he's helping his son David buy two legacy Hollywood studios and roll them up into what the Ellisons hope will be a technology empowered media mega studio that can credibly take on Netflix, Amazon, Disney and the others. And to do so, Larry has leaned hard into his relationship with Donald Trump. He's always been a Republican donor, but we learned in the Wall Street Journal this week that just before David's Skydance Media went after Paramount, Larry quietly made more than $45 million in donations to Trump's election campaign. He's donated more since. And he's also cultivated a close friendship with the fellow octogenarian billionaire who seems to share a political and social worldview with the elder Ellison. So much so that to understand the Trump Larry relationship is to sort of understand why the President has been such a cheerleader for the Ellisons owning Paramount and why the Trump Justice Department just gave an okay to the warnermount merger pretty much sight unseen. I've been curious about the Larry angle, so I asked Emily Glaser to come on the show. She's a Pulitzer Prize winning reporter. The Wall Street Journal, our second Journal reporter this week. Sort of a coincidence, she co wrote that story on Larry Ellison and she covers powerful people as her beat. So today it's the Larry Angle on the warnermount merger and the personal relationship behind the biggest deal in Hollywood history. From the ringer and puck, I'm Matt Bellany and this is the town. All right, we are here with Emily Glaser, who is an enterprise reporter at the Wall Street Journal and a genuine, honest to God Pulitzer Prize winner. Welcome.

[Emily Glaser]

I'll take that. Welcome any day. Thanks, Matt.

[Matt Bellany]

Thank you. You know, the Pulitzer committee never gets back to us. We submit our box office draft every year and nothing. I'm still waiting. Lucas is very disappointed.

[Emily Glaser]

I wish I could tell you I had an amazing in, but I'm not that powerful.

[Matt Bellany]

Someday, maybe this episode, someday we'll. We'll use your clout right this.

[Emily Glaser]

It could all change after this.

[Matt Bellany]

All right, so we have you on today because I want to talk about the Larry Angle in the Paramount Warner Brothers merger. And by Larry, I mean Larry Ellison. Where is he now on the list of richest people? Is he still top 10?

[Emily Glaser]

He is still top 10. So for a hot second, he was number one. As you can imagine, with Elon and the SpaceX IPO. He is not number one anymore, but you are. You and I are on the same page because I did pull up the Bloomberg Billionaires index before this podcast. And he's number six according to them, behind Elon Musk, Larry Page, the other Larry, Sergey Brin, Jeff Bezos, Michael dell. A whopping 211 billion.

[Matt Bellany]

Sad for Larry. He needs to pick up the pace. We need to get him into that top five.

[Emily Glaser]

We'll share that he is above Mark Zuckerberg, though. That must feel good.

[Matt Bellany]

I wanted to have you on because Larry has always been painted during all of these discussions around the deal as sort of a periphery figure, at least from the Hollywood perspective. This has been David Ellison's shadow show. Obviously, Paramount is very interested in promoting. This is David's show. He's making all the decisions. He's the mastermind behind all this. But then you and your colleagues at the Journal dropped this story this week that essentially painted a picture that was a little different than what has been out there. Larry, first of all, has kind of greased the wheels here with a undisclosed $45 million donation to the Trump campaign. Other heretofore undisclosed donations after that. He's had several meetings with Trump and is sort of, at least how I read your story, been the, if not the puppeteer behind this. Certainly a big and powerful voice beyond just putting up the money and guaranteeing this $110 billion deal. Am I right in that reading?

[Emily Glaser]

I think you are. I mean, you know, there's always the nuances around it. But here I would say Larry is not just the money man, although he obviously has an insane amount of money, and the money has helped. But when it comes to Larry Ellison and President Trump, there's actually a genuine friendship, and they genuinely like each other.

[Matt Bellany]

You think that? Does a guy like Larry have any real friends?

[Emily Glaser]

I truly do. So let me. Let me, like, paint this for you a little bit.

[Matt Bellany]

Okay.

[Emily Glaser]

These are friends with benefits, and a different kind than what we're usually used to hearing. Right, Sorry, sorry. Friends with business benefits. Larry Ellison and Donald Trump, from what I hear, from what my sources tell me, genuinely enjoy spending time together. Trump just turned 80. Larry is 81. I'm not saying they're friends just because in their 80s. I'm just trying to, like, paint a little picture for you. They have similar ideological beliefs. They actually have things that they get along about. And I think that what I've heard is that Trump doesn't just view Larry as someone that, like, needs something from him, even though he does. But, like, Larry's got his own power, he's got his own money, he's got his own influence. He has his own relationship. So I feel like. I don't want to say they're equals, but I think that in some cases, like, there is actually, like, genuine connection that they have, which, when I learned that, I was like, oh, wow, that's really interesting. And that was kind of a kernel for me of exploring this more.

[Matt Bellany]

It's funny you say that, because I'm thinking now to this new book that just came out, Regime Change, which has some pretty entertaining moments in it where Trump is showing off the fact that he's getting text messages from all of these billionaire tech moguls like Jeff Bezos and Mark Zuckerberg. You don't hear in that book Trump making fun of Larry Ellison.

[Emily Glaser]

And they do talk a lot. I know for a fact they talk on the phone quite a bit. Um, they also see each other. Larry Ellison officially changed his. His, like, residence to Florida, just about 20 minutes south of Mar a Lago. He still has his Hawaii residence, but he's got this, like, huge compound very close to Palm Beach. So they're physically close, but they also do talk on the phone a lot. And to your point about what's the deal with Paramount, you better believe that they were on the phone around a lot of the ins and Outs and shenanigans as that went down. And they. That's some of what we report.

[Matt Bellany]

Yes. And when you mentioned that they have ideological, shared beliefs, what do you mean by that? Is it just Israel? Because we all know Larry is a big supporter of Israel. And in fact, some of my reporting I've done suggests that, that, not the Trump stuff, that is really the ideological driver of a lot of this stuff at CBS News where they've taken the direction of CBS News in a very different way with Barry Weiss and even the entire kind of goal of the company. They, they feel very strongly, both Larry and David, that there needs to be a, A, a protector of Israel in the media.

[Advertisement Voice]

So.

[Emily Glaser]

And kudos to your reporting. I've seen a lot of that great reporting. There's definitely an Israel connection. Obviously, Trump's relationship with Bibi right now is much more fraught than it has been, but they do have a long standing rapport. Larry and Netanyahu have a long standing rapport. There's that connection. But it's not just that. I, My understanding is that they also both have a shared dislike for some mainstream media to travel back in time quite a bit, when Larry was really in like the heyday of his tech years. He got a ton of press. And I've been told over the years that he just absolutely despises that and like really eschews a lot of that. So it's always, it's very, very interesting to see David building this media conglomerate when it's something that Larry has, esp, Especially with legacy media, is like really not a big fan of most of those organizations. And so I think that's something that he and Trump bond over. And I think that they also genuinely both have, like I said before, they're kind of like from a similar generation. They both have a lot of money, they both have a lot of power, they both need things from each other. But I think they both have like a shared respect for one another. It's, it's very odd. I mean, it's always really interesting when you see friendships at this level of power because I think people are always used to, when you have a lot of money or power, like someone wants something, there's got to be like the favor or the ask. And their rapport has that. But there's also been all these bumpy years too, and money at least has solved that for Larry Ellison. So it's not always been a pretty friendship.

[Matt Bellany]

Yeah, I've always thought that Larry, who's by all accounts extremely intelligent, had sort of identified Trump as a useful idiot that he could cozy up to and get a lot of out of, unlike previous presidential regimes where he could not. And in fact, Larry has had other candidates that he's supported, not Donald Trump, and has managed to kind of win his way back into the good graces. I just don't like, I, I, maybe I'm more cynical. I just have a hard time believing that a guy like Larry Ellison actually wants to hang out with Donald Trump.

[Emily Glaser]

So honestly, I'm having flashbacks a little bit of. I remember years ago, I, I was talking to Andrew Ross Sorkin and he was like, grilling me about this article I wrote about Elon Musk potentially becoming an advice, a political advisor to Donald Trump should Donald Trump win. And he was like, I don't believe it, I don't believe it. And I was like, no, no, this is like a real thing. And I will tell you, Matt, I'm having some flashbacks here. Like, I really, I also was very, I am a very skeptical person. I am a very paranoid person. Trust, like, you know, ask anyone who knows me. I'm always just like, wondering, like, could that be true? I think they. Genu. I think that Donald Trump and Larry Ellison like, genuinely like each other. But that's not, I mean, that's so simple, right? This is obviously just way more complex than that. And let's not Forget in the 1990s and 2000s, Larry Ellison was like a huge Clinton guy. Oh, yeah, Bill Clinton. Okay. Like, Bill Clinton spoke at this big Oracle event. I was looking up this story from, I think it was like 2001, where there were all these reports that there, there were rumors that Larry wanted Bill Clinton to join the Oracle board. So, like, even though we all think of Larry Ellison as this like, Trump guy and Republican, which he has been for a number of years, you know, you mentioned he supported other candidates. He was a huge backer of Tim Scott going into the 2024 presidential race, only switched to Trump, only gave that 45 million donation toward his reelection once. At least. Our understanding is once he saw that the writing was on the wall and Trump was going to be the Republican nominee. But going back to 2016, he was a Marco Rubio supporter. So, like, he's popped around. I just think it's interesting that he's also supported Democrats, like back in the day, as has and is widely known. David Ellison.

[Matt Bellany]

Yeah, David gave to the Harris Biden campaign and he also has given to other Democrats. He was like a fixture on the LA Democratic fundraiser circuit, although pointedly he has not given to either party in the Trump years.

[Emily Glaser]

And now he's a fixture. He's a fixture at the UFC circuit now.

[Matt Bellany]

So we'll get into that. I just remembered when I saw Gavin Newsom at a party in D.C. for the correspondence dinner, I said, I asked him what he thought of Larry Ellison and he like, he just like rolled his eyes like, don't even get me started on that guy. It seemed like there was a long history between the two of them.

[Emily Glaser]

I got it. I feel like I need to like pull up the Federal Election Commission records and see if there's anything there.

[Matt Bellany]

I'm sure.

[Emily Glaser]

But any of the good stuff would not be there. Right.

[Matt Bellany]

And Oracle is so heavily invested in California. I'm sure he's annoyed by the taxes and all that.

[Emily Glaser]

Yeah, all the stuff that there's always. We couldn't even start this conversation without being like. And then they're annoyed about the billionaires tax. Like, come on.

[Matt Bellany]

Of course. All right, so let's take this towards Paramount and now Paramount, Warner Brothers, because. Yeah, I want to know. And just getting into the psychology of Larry, is this just that his son, his only adult son wants to do this and he is going to do everything in his power to make sure his son fulfills his his dream of owning a big media company or is Larry the mastermind here and sees a roll up of media assets combined with what he can do with the technology angle at Oracle combined with what he is building with TikTok now and he is the one who sees this in the big picture and that this could be a real media powerhouse.

[Emily Glaser]

It's definitely more the latter than the former as I presume. You know, let's take each piece of that apart for a moment. As is widely out there, Larry Ellison and David Ellison have not just had some like happy go lucky father son rapport their whole lives. I don't think it's as simple as Larry just trying to do this to like please his son or repair anything with his son. I have not heard that. I do think that Larry is an absolute mastermind. I've heard that he is someone even when I've talked to people that have worked with him at Oracle over the years. That is amazing as like a strategic mind and connecting the dots. And even now he's executive chairman and like chief technology officer, he's still calling the shots at Oracle. Sorry to the Oracle Co CEOs and Saffro Cats. I'm just saying that's what I have heard. I am sure. You know, day to day it's always different. But he's still extremely powerful and he's still very thoughtful and putting a lot of effort into what he sees as the future of media and tech. And I think that it's very poignant that you mentioned tick tock and that you also mentioned the media elements of this because for many years, you know, Larry's been the Oracle guy and it's sort of been this like kind of boring big tech company, but like very B2B. You know, it's not as sexy as like a Facebook or a Google or even what like you know, Elon's building a SpaceX or Tesla, you know, it, it's kind of been able to do own thing and largely stay out of the news. I think a lot of that is by design. And he has tiptoed more and more into these other elements of media and technology where they overlap. And the Trump administration has helped him a lot along the way. And it's not just getting, you know, access and running this US part of TikTok. It's not just Oracle getting in on Stargate and getting access to this massive AI project. I mean there's government contracts that Oracle has gotten and it's not just what's happened with cbs, what's happened with Paramount, what's happened with Warner Brothers. Like there's just so many elements of this. So yes, I think we should give a lot of credit to Larry Ellison is a very long way to answer your question.

[Matt Bellany]

Yeah. Then the other question is why didn't he bankroll more of this? Certainly has the money, why force them to go out and, and get Saudi money, Abu Dhabi money, Qatari money and Ult in the original deal. He wasn't even going to backstop it. Ultimately he came in and guaranteed a lot of these loans and the overall deal. But I always wondered if you're that rich, just what are you doing dealing with this other money?

[Emily Glaser]

What are you like to be a fly on the wall in those conversations? Matt, I'm sure you have been a little bit.

[Matt Bellany]

I know I'm asking you things that are unknowable.

[Emily Glaser]

I think that with anyone who is extremely wealthy, there' so much liquid cash to go around number one. So there's just like that part of it to consider.

[Matt Bellany]

Well, in the Oracle stock is dictating a lot of this and it has come down significantly since the, the highs the a year or two ago. So his personal wealth fluctuates a lot.

[Emily Glaser]

It's funny, we had, I had some readers, Wall Street Journal readers or, or maybe they just found this on the Internet after that were like, yeah, we saw that story. But did you see Oracle stock is down. So, like, really none of this matters. I was like, okay, that's one way to look at it. So, yeah, I just think no matter how wealthy you are, there's always how much of that cash is liquid. I think that's the best answer I could give to that. Otherwise, I wish I had the magic ball. And like, you better believe I wish I were. We're in on all those conversations. But listen, like, Larry is spending his money in lots of different ways. And part of why we wrote the story is that there's a lot more money he's spending toward Trump and Trump efforts than was known. And so he's not putting all his money in the Paramount basket. That would be really odd if he did, right?

[Matt Bellany]

It would be. It would be very odd. So I, I get it. It's, you know, and you don't get to where he is without making smart deals. And he probably wanted to provide just enough financing with Redbird and with the others to make this happen without providing a penny more.

[Emily Glaser]

I guess there's a reason why, why he is where he is, you know?

[Matt Bellany]

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[Matt Bellany]

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[Emily Glaser]

We're getting spicy.

[Matt Bellany]

Yes.

[Emily Glaser]

So first of all, I just want to note that I wrote this story with two incredible colleagues. Annie Linsky, White House reporter, and Jessica Tunkel, who is a senior media and tech reporter. I have to shout out my colleagues because so much of the reporting here is like a team effort. Not to sound corny, but I just wanted to say that. So let's travel back in time as you started to bring us David Ellison. You know, know he was his company then with Skydance. They're in the midst of merging with CBS's owner, Paramount. He meets with Trump at this UFC event in April 2025, brokered by Ari Emanuel. Right. Let's not forget that.

[Matt Bellany]

Don't forget Ari is there. Ari is the Where's Waldo in all of these deals.

[Emily Glaser]

Love it. I love that. And so. Oh, and sorry. And Elon Musk is also ringside, I think with a, with, with a child, one of his children. X. And behind the scenes we report that David Ellison was getting pretty frustrated as he was waiting for this regulatory approval for the merger. And Paramount was has negotiated a high stakes settlement with Trump. And again, Trump had filed this lawsuit against CBS because of the alleged deceptive editing of the interview with then VP Kamala Harris. Sorry, just want to set the stage here for those that are not familiar

[Matt Bellany]

with it, lest we forget.

[Emily Glaser]

So around this time, David Ellison calls a Paramount director named Barbara Byrne. And he is on this call expressing his frustration because he was very eager for this merger to close and he heard it would take $49.5 million to settle. And this is according to our sources. Byrne then tells Ellison they should not be talking and goes to inform Paramounts general counsel and the board about this. This is all according to our sources,

[Matt Bellany]

yet they paid it. What was the ultimate number? 45.

[Emily Glaser]

In July 2025, Paramount settled for $16 million.

[Matt Bellany]

Right? That one was 16. Yes.

[Emily Glaser]

And the merger was approved by regulators soon after. So it's actually a fraction of that 49.5 mil. So Barbara told the Wall Street Journal a statement David called to vent about how protracted the settlement process had become. There was no intent to transmit information, intervene or collude in the settlement. In fact, the settlement negotiations were well known to us as the company was negotiating via outside counsel with the plaintiff's counsel through a mediator.

[Matt Bellany]

Love it just. Excellent work on all sides.

[Emily Glaser]

Yeah. Hat tip to my colleagues on that.

[Matt Bellany]

So they're just not doing themselves any favors when it comes to the appearance of corruption. I don't want to use the corruption word. I just want to. Like the close ties.

[Emily Glaser]

You don't want to use it. But you did say it.

[Matt Bellany]

I did say it, but. But then I. But then I qualified by saying I don't want to call it corruption. I just want to call it an extremely close relationship that has emerged between this very wealthy, powerful family and the head of the government that they need to. To approve the creation of a massive media company. Is that a fair way to. To assess it?

[Emily Glaser]

Yeah, I mean, a big question is like, is this the way that business is done these days? Is this being normalized? Is it not? I mean, so much of why we're writing this story is to, like, connect some of these dots. And look, I'm not naive. I think that, you know, you could ask anyone, whether it. With Democratic president or Republican President, there's always money that changes hands from companies to administrations in different ways. Lobbyists have their job for a reason. Like, I'm not naive in saying that doesn't happen, but the scale here of the amount of money. And by the way, it wasn't just the, the $45 million that Larry Ellison wrote to Trump's 2024 reelection campaign. We also report that Larry has given millions since then, and some of that money has gone toward Trump's legacy projects. So there's millions that are through here. It's the scale of the money. And then there's some very clear what seem to be advantages that, that are happening. And as you pointed out earlier, it's not like one company. It's so fascinating. There's like a couple different big, large companies here that are doing pretty well.

[Matt Bellany]

And I don't want to be naive either. I mean, I.

[Emily Glaser]

Obviously, we're not going to be naive on this podcast, Matt. Okay? We are not.

[Matt Bellany]

This kind of stuff does happen. It's just usually a little more laundered or discreet. As with everything with Trump, it just. Everything seems to be out in the open now. And.

[Emily Glaser]

Well, it is, but it isn't. Because don't, you know, don't forget this. This. These millions were not out in the open. I did scour Federal Action Commission. You know, I was that person. Like, I'm sure there was a faster way for AI to do this, but I also really did manually look to make sure I wasn't missing anything. So this was dark Money. And this is not the first time that someone use like C4s and you know, not disclose political donations in different ways. But yeah, it's, it's different. And that's what we hear from people. It's, it's different. It's more money, there's more closeness. There's also like different ways to give because there are all these different legacy projects now. It's not just like this one C4 that everyone just gives to. It's like there's all these different buckets. So yeah, it's a pretty, it's the wild west out there right now.

[Matt Bellany]

So ultimately does any of this matter? That's the real question. Like will these machinations ultimately come back to haunt them? I doubt it. I mean this, there are the, this antitrust case that the California Attorney General might bring. And the problem here is that none of this is antitrust really. It just kind of smells terrible. But like the, the underlying antitrust case is like from everything I've read, like not that strong.

[Emily Glaser]

Let's not have a short memory about Larry Ellison also tapping his ties to the White House because the Department of Justice had launched a probe into whether Netflix engaged in anti competitive tactics when Netflix was trying to do the deal with Warner Brothers. And that ultimately chilled that Netflix deal and cleared the path for the Ellison led Paramount bid. So I know that's like old news now, but like that happens.

[Matt Bellany]

Yeah, well, it chilled it, but I don't think that's what really stopped it. I think the fact that Paramount came over the top and outbid them was the bigger factor. But I guess they saw problematic path for themselves at Netflix and dropped out.

[Emily Glaser]

I agree. I'm not saying it's the only thing. I'm just saying Larry Ellison had ties to the White House. And this DOJ probe like that, those are just not isolated situations.

[Matt Bellany]

So if you're like Elizabeth Warren or any of the antitrust people, are you just waiting for Congress to turn to go after Paramount, Warner Brothers?

[Emily Glaser]

God, I'm going to be so annoying with this. I'm sorry. I wonder if the bigger question is, and what I hear from a lot of my sources, whether it's Paramount or other sectors, is whether the Democrats are going to take power in the House or the Senate come November or both. And then what will happen with not just a deal like this, but a lot of other deals? Because there have been a lot of deals that have gone through very quickly. There's been a lot of business practices that have happened. Obviously it's no secret this is a much lower regulatory environment that businesses and companies are very happy about. And I'm not saying whether that's good or bad. All I'm saying is I know companies are thinking we might have just a couple months to go before things could change. So what do we need to do to get our stuff over the finish line and be in the clear?

[Matt Bellany]

Right.

[Emily Glaser]

I have to imagine Paramount's having some of those conversations, too. And look, we know that David Ellison has made his case for the deal to various state AGs. Like, it's not just on the federal side. He's, like, working his, you know, his connections and trying to get, you know, approval and trying to get people to be on his side elsewhere in government. And, you know, time will tell. I hate saying that, but it's true.

[Matt Bellany]

I get it. And it seems like that's where we are, where this is the. The normal for right now. But it could change. And I just wonder what. What the Democrats can actually do once these deals are consummated. Not very much. I don't.

[Emily Glaser]

Yeah. I mean, the Democrats have to first organize their party and there's so many other things after that. But let. We should just stop there because that has to happen first.

[Matt Bellany]

Yeah, we'll see. All right. Well, this is all fascinating. Appreciate you coming on and give us your insights.

[Advertisement Voice]

We.

[Matt Bellany]

We are officially submitting this one for a Pulitzer.

[Emily Glaser]

I love it. I'll try to get as much intel on that as I can. Thank you, Matt.

[Matt Bellany]

Thank you. We are back with the call sheet. Craig, first, a little accountability. Big squeaker. Last weekend with Toy Story, I took the over on 160. And on Sunday, the estimate was exactly 160. And then a brutal kick in the nuts on Monday morning. The actuals came in and it was 1.59.7 for the weekend. So I will take the loss on Toy Story.

[Craig Horbeck]

We also said that we felt like it would get into the 1 70s. We thought it would blow past 16 0. So it is a real.

[Matt Bellany]

We did. I know I was a little too bullish. I am frankly a little surprised it wasn't higher, even though it's an amazing opening. But this weekend, we've got the opposite of that. We've got a franchise that seems to not be connecting. Supergirl tracking is at about 50. Honestly, this one, I mean, what are the comps for this? We can't go back to Captain Marvel or Wonder Woman. Right. That was 153 for Captain Marvel and 103 for Warner.

[Craig Horbeck]

For Wonder Woman, that was 2017. 2019, like completely different time now. It's like, I don't know if you want to compare it to the Marvels, the sequel to Captain Marvel, to Thunderbolts. I don't know what. But I actually think the point, the fact that there's no comp is the point, which is we're in such a weird place right now. And I've. I stand by the fact that I think the Marvel and the DC superhero universe is heading towards the cliff and will probably end up being a good thing long term. But I think we are right now. Even if Avengers Doomsday is big, I don't think that means superheroes are back.

[Matt Bellany]

If I'm Peter Safran and James Gunn at dc, this is not the movie I want coming out right before the company is sold to Paramount and the Paramount people are deciding my fate going forward.

[Craig Horbeck]

Yeah. Also, I don't know, like going in, I feel like this was just sounded like a risk the second it was announced. A Supergirl movie with a star who's, you know, not super famous yet, even though she's. I heard she's good in the movie, but this just felt like a long shot from the beginning.

[Matt Bellany]

Yeah. And they thought that by planting it in Superman that that movie was well received and did okay. Ended up, you know, open to 125 and ended up in like, I believe it was almost 800-no-6 something worldwide. But they thought that that was all they needed and that they could reset the franchise and then start coasting. Turns out people want quality. Every time. The Rotten Tomatoes score on this one is low. The Metacritic is I think below 50 at this point. And I'm going to take the under on 50 million.

[Craig Horbeck]

I will take the under two. I'm honestly, I'm not even that sure how quality dependent it is. Obviously that matters. I just think the superhero storyline is stale. It's been going on for almost 20 years. It's just there are natural ebbs and flows to things, you know, in genres in Hollywood. And I just think we're at the end, we're at an ebb right now.

[Matt Bellany]

So you're not excited for Clayface in the fall? An R rated DC movie?

[Craig Horbeck]

I. Maybe that'll do better. Maybe it'll play more horror and people will go see it because it's R rated and then like the ceiling will be lower, but people will like it. But these like big, broad studio superhero movies, I just feel like it's gonna be really hard. Even if Doomsday is holding on for dear life and Hits a billion and a half. I don't feel confident that like the next 10 years are just going to be filled with great superhero movies.

[Matt Bellany]

Well, sad for D.C. because that's kind of the only value that they have. But I do think they could be reinvented. I do think it's quality. I think if it's cool, it's cool and good and resonates, then people will show up. This one just feels lazy. It just does. And I haven't seen it. You haven't seen it? The premiere was in New York. But it does feel lazy. They did a good job hiding it, I will say. As of like Tuesday, I had not talked to anyone who had seen it and I was asking around. And finally after the premiere, people started to see it. Lo and behold, the late critical embargo, classic tactic there. They put out a story in the trades about how lucrative all the marketing partnerships were. The big tell was that Craig Gillespie, the director, he announced his next project or a project that he is loosely attached to a day before the reviews for this movie came out. It's a Glen Powell movie. He's like, I got something lined up. I got something lined up.

[Craig Horbeck]

It feels like it's a rock and a hard place. You say, oh, it needs to be new and good and people will go see it. But the only way people go to the movie is if it has the old stars, which is the doomsday approach. So how do you make it new and cool with the same actors?

[Matt Bellany]

That is the challenge of the superhero universe these days. And we'll see. Spider Man's about to come out. It's going to be gigantic. So we'll probably be talking differently then. So. All right, that's the show for today. I want to thank my guest Emily Glaser, producer Craig Horbeck, editor Jon Jones and Jesse Lopez. And I want to thank you. We will see you next week.

[Emily Glaser]

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[Matt Bellany]

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