Loading summary
Transcript223 lines
- [00:00]
Matt Bellany
Before we start, a correction from yesterday's episode with David Kramer of uta. In the intro I said CAA was owned by the Arnault family of LVMH fame. It is not. It is owned by the Pinault family, of course, which owns Kering, another luxury house. I mixed up my Frenchman. Apologies. Now onto the show. It is Thursday, June 12. Today is the start of the voting period for the Emmys, and if you live in Los Angeles, you know this because there are billboards everywhere, ads on local tv, and the stars of shows that haven't aired in months are suddenly doing tons of press about their process and how amazing and fun everyone was on set. All to remind the 26,000 or so members of the Television Academy that they did good work this past year. Many of those Academy members listen to this show, so it's nothing they don't know already. Like Oscar season, the months leading up to the Emmys are a mini industrial complex. Millions of dollars spent by these streamers and traditional networks on campaigns designed to influence voters. Yes, there are even ads on this little show. But it's funny, many people in town don't actually know how the Emmy nominees are actually chosen. The voting process. It's very different from the Oscars or other awards. And of course I don't need to explain why these awards are important. In addition to the egos and vanities of the talent, winning an Emmy or even being nominated can be a huge boost to the career of an actor, a writer, or whatever creative person. Plus, for the platforms, the awards are great distinguishers. Way to cut through the clutter and signal to the audience this is actually good. HBO has built its brand off the Emmys. Same with FX AMC back in the day. Now Apple TV is trying hard. Netflix and Amazon love the Emmys because it helps recruit top talent to make shows there, even though most of their business is not the award style content. I recently had a funny experience in that my little cameo on the studio on Apple TV was submitted by Apple for consideration in the guest actor in a comedy. So technically, I am eligible for an Emmy this year for playing myself. TV Academy voters, you can do the funniest thing possible this season and nominate me. It's my tagline actually do the funniest thing ever to discuss this and maybe use myself as a guinea pig for the conversation. I wanted to bring in an expert on Emmy campaigns. So I've got Debra Berenbaum. Deb is currently the editor of Gold Derby, the awards website. Before that, she was head of Awards at Amazon Studios in charge of all their awards campaigns. So today it's the nuts and bolts of how to get an Emmy nomination from the ringer and puck. I'm Matt Bellany and this is the town. Okay. We are here with Debra Birnbaum, who is the editor in chief of Gold Derby and an awards season expert. Welcome, Deb.
- [02:48]
Debra Birnbaum
Thank you so much for having me.
- [02:50]
Matt Bellany
By the way, happy Emmys day or Emmys voting. What is. What do you call today the start of voting?
- [02:56]
Debra Birnbaum
Emmy balloting day.
- [02:58]
Matt Bellany
Emmy balloting day. Happy Emmy balloting. We are taping this a couple days in advance, but this is the day when we find out who submitted what for the Emmys and how many nominees there will be in particular categories. Am I getting that right?
- [03:13]
Debra Birnbaum
You are getting that right. It is very exciting. We get to find out who self submitted because we know who the networks in the studio submitted.
- [03:19]
Matt Bellany
But.
- [03:20]
Debra Birnbaum
But we get to know who did the Gwendoline Christie and submitted themselves, which is always really fun.
- [03:24]
Matt Bellany
The Melissa Leo for the Oscars who went rogue. They used to call it going rogue where your network does not support you, but you decide to submit yourself anyways. And in the case of Gwendoline Christie for Game of Thrones, she got nominated.
- [03:36]
Debra Birnbaum
Exactly. So it works on the Emmy side of things. So that's the one exciting thing we're looking forward to. And the other thing is because the Emmys won't tell us how many are actually going to be nominated, we have to count the number of submissions. So we get to do math. That is my favorite thing. We get to count up the number of submissions to figure out the number of slots that are gonna be.
- [03:53]
Matt Bellany
I will not be doing any math. The whole impetus for this episode is Craig, and I thought it was hilarious that Apple submitted me for the studio based on my tiny cameo on the show. So I wanna go through the entire process here, and I want you to, first of all, explain how the Emmy campaigns work. And secondly, give me some advice here. How do we pull off the funniest thing ever and get me a nomination for guest actor in a comedy series? So I'm gonna assume that people know the basics of awards campaigning and the fact that you do press and that you make yourself known and you go to parties and the studios and streamers, they support you and put on FYC events. Tell me how the voting works here.
- [04:38]
Debra Birnbaum
I always say that There are like four Cs, like a diamond. There are four Cs to an Emmy campaign. There's the consumers. You gotta get the people to Watch your show. There's the critics, you gotta get people to like the show. There's the campaigning, you gotta get out there and work for it. And then you gotta look at the competition, you gotta see who you're up against.
- [04:53]
Matt Bellany
I would say there's another category of awards media because the entire genre of awards media was born with the Internet 20, 25 years ago when the studios decided they didn't like the critics and the fact that critics would sometimes crap on their movies that they thought were eligible or awards oriented. So this other genre of awards media was created where these bloggers first and now the awards pundits, you're one of them as well. In your site. They are a little bit lighter, touched. When the studios and networks care about a program or a movie, these sites care about them. And they chronicle them and they rank them and they do interviews with them and they do FYC campaign events with them. And that's I think the fifth C, but go ahead.
- [05:35]
Debra Birnbaum
Yeah, no, I totally agree. I mean that. And that's where you sort of have to get creative about it. That's where you have to do all of those levers. So you gotta get out there and you have to work for it. I think it's really about, you have to be seen as working for it. It isn't a participation trophy. You don't just get it because people watch a show. You don't just get it because the show is well reviewed. If you're not being seen as having wanting it, you're not just going to get it. It doesn't work like that anymore. There's too much competition, there's too much.
- [05:57]
Matt Bellany
Out there, too many people who do want it and we all know it's meaningful. It can be a huge boost to your career. It's a real differentiator, especially on these streaming services, you know, from working at Amazon, they very much wanted awards because they wanted to compete for talent and say we are an Emmy award winning platform. And they also wanted to be able to put that little Emmy moniker on the service and say, watch this. Not only is Fallout a great show, it got Emmy nominations and it works.
- [06:22]
Debra Birnbaum
I mean, it gets Mr. Mrs. Smith watched, it gets shows watched and it gets the studio watched.
- [06:26]
Matt Bellany
Right. So there's 26,000 or so members of the TV Academy, very different from the Film Academy, which is less than half that, about 10,000. And the film Academy people are spreading all over the world. The TV Academy people are mostly LA and New York, with exceptions obviously. And it's a lot Easier to get into the TV Academy. I could probably be a member if I wanted to. You just pay your fee and say how you're related to the business. It's not as juried of a selection pool as the Oscars process is. Am I right on that?
- [06:57]
Debra Birnbaum
Yeah, you're absolutely right on that. You just get to prove that you work in the business and that you've been working in the business. It's not like the movie academy where you have to have people vouch for you. So you apply for membership to the Academy, you pay your dues, after four years, you're it. And then you have to be continue to work and continue to prove yourself. And then you're put into a peer group and like the Academy, peers vote for peers, right?
- [07:17]
Matt Bellany
There's 31 of those.
- [07:19]
Debra Birnbaum
Yes, there's 31 peer groups and then you all vote within your peer group. So actors vote for actors. So Matt, you're competing against Bryan Cranston and Ron Howard. So you're going to have to get your fellow actors to vote for you and guest actor.
- [07:30]
Matt Bellany
Yeah, I need to start doing appearances at the motion picture home. I need to go to, you know, the UCB bar at night and you know, get, get in with some TV comedy actors. I really need to like work the roof.
- [07:42]
Debra Birnbaum
You need to work it. Whereas. Where's your SAG retrospective? Is that one coming? I'm happy to moderate that one for you.
- [07:46]
Matt Bellany
Exactly. I need a, I need a whole retrospective of my career. All my talking head work over the years, my roundtable appearances. That one time Lady Gaga gave me side eye on a roundtable. All of it.
- [07:57]
Debra Birnbaum
Exactly. So your clip URL is coming and we're going to be working on that for you. So you gotta, you know, shake hands, kiss babies and do all of that and take lots of selfies. You ready for it?
- [08:06]
Matt Bellany
I could do it. I am fully prepared to campaign for this. Do the campaigners know which of the TV Academy members are in the peer groups? Meaning, like is there a nominating committee among peers?
- [08:22]
Debra Birnbaum
There used to be. There used to be this blue ribbon panel that would do the first pass and now they've made it much more egalitarian, so. But what the TV Academy doesn't do is tell you who votes. So we've never gotten any kind of numbers from them that says X number of people vote. If you go to the FYC events though, I'm telling you, you'll see the same familiar faces night after night.
- [08:39]
Matt Bellany
Oh yeah. And you know who all these people are? These Networks and studios have lists. They have a list of what they say is the most complete list of all of the voters. And they literally check them off when they show up to events. So they feel like they've reached particular people.
- [08:55]
Debra Birnbaum
Exactly. And so they also go after. You know, the assumption is, like, if, you know, members of the Producers Guild, you would assume that those people in the Producers Guild are also members of the TV Academy. They're working members of the industry. So there's crossover. Same with dga, wga. It stands to reason. So again, we don't know what percentage of that 26,000 are actually voting, but you're assuming that the people that are coming out and actively participating in the FYC events, those are the people you want to reach.
- [09:18]
Matt Bellany
And you have to attest that you've seen the stuff, right?
- [09:22]
Debra Birnbaum
No, you don't.
- [09:23]
Matt Bellany
You don't. Because there was that big controversy. The Oscars are gonna make everyone watch all the movies to vote for Best Picture. And the. I thought the TV Academy did have some box. You have to check to say that you watched it.
- [09:34]
Debra Birnbaum
But think about. There's so much content out there. So I think when it comes to the voting, when it comes to. Once everything's been nominated, then you have to say the nomination phase happens. When you say yes, that's when you have to come out to it. But right now, it's just like. That's why I think the nomination phase is the hardest one, because there's so much content out there, and that's why the ballots are going to be so interesting. It's impossible to watch everything. For my job, I can barely keep up with it. Think about working actors, people who are working in the industry. How are they going to keep up with everything that's on the ballot?
- [10:03]
Matt Bellany
Well, and that's why the nominations, when they come out, they tend to be people from the same shows. If it's a show that people watch, we know everyone watches the Bear. We know everyone watches Shogun last year, and everybody gets nominated. So you're like, really? There were. There was hundreds and hundreds of original television shows last year, and only 10 or 12 total get nominated in any categories.
- [10:29]
Debra Birnbaum
It really coalesces around a certain number of shows. And that's why I think at the end of the day, the Emmys really becomes a popularity contest, because think about.
- [10:35]
Craig Horbeck
A show like, oh, I'm gonna lose that.
- [10:37]
Matt Bellany
I'm gonna lose that. You gotta be Bryan Cranston, who everybody likes.
- [10:41]
Debra Birnbaum
Sorry. And Scorsese and Ron Howard. There you go.
- [10:45]
Matt Bellany
I'm gonna lose that war. My angle should just be the comedy. It would be so ridiculous and funny and sort of prove the whole process as a farce if I got nominated. So that's my campaign.
- [10:58]
Debra Birnbaum
But look, your campaign is also. You're part of one of the biggest shows this year to break out. I think voters vote for the shows that they want to see nominated. So you're gonna see a lot of nominations for shows like studios, Severance, the Bear, White Lotus, Last of Us, those big shows that everybody watched. That's why it's really hard to go back to the point I made at the beginning. Like, you've got to tick all those boxes. It's really hard for little shows to break through.
- [11:19]
Matt Bellany
And so that leads to the campaigns. I want to get into the costs of some of these campaigns because I. I have numbers, but I think they're a little outdated. You've been inside the system, and you're now reporting on the system. What does a big Emmy campaign for a big show? Let's take severance. What does an Emmy campaign cost? And let's break it down on how they spend the money.
- [11:41]
Debra Birnbaum
I can't speak specifically to what severance spend. I can't. You know, I don't know what's going on inside Apple, but you see the.
- [11:47]
Matt Bellany
Result, and you see the kinds of things they are doing. And having been at Amazon, you know how much certain things cost to fly the entire cast to these big events, to put on a double FYC event. Every. Every show is given an official FYC event by the Academy where they get the email addresses of the members and they do their thing. Some shows choose to do additional things beyond that, and that's where the costs can really rack up. So, like, what is it? Is it 10 million?
- [12:16]
Debra Birnbaum
Probably less. I mean, look, I think a small campaign can be in the couple hundred thousand dollars range. And I think if you go big, you're probably closer to, like, the low 2 to $5 million range.
- [12:26]
Matt Bellany
Okay, so that's less than I thought.
- [12:28]
Debra Birnbaum
You know, I think it can add up. You know, you think about it. It's the cost of the screenings, it's the cost of the talent travel, and it's the cost of the billboards. But then I also think it's about where you get creative. It's about putting ads on pizza boxes and, you know, coffee.
- [12:41]
Matt Bellany
God, I need to. I need to. They need to stop sending me that swag nonsense. It goes directly to the garbage.
- [12:48]
Debra Birnbaum
Well, there's the swag, there's the Robots coming down the street. It's, you know, it's ads on podcasts and things like that.
- [12:53]
Matt Bellany
The big streamers, Amazon, Apple, Netflix kind of reinvented this because they found it so important to, to be in the awards race, to appeal to talent and to differentiate on their streamers that they set up these houses where every night for a month there's some event and it allows them to give time to all of their shows. So if I'm Joe Blow's showrunner and there's no chance in hell I'm getting nominated, I can still say I had an FYC event and they put some time and effort behind my campaign.
- [13:22]
Debra Birnbaum
The idea there is, it's a one stop shop so that whatever show you come in for, you're getting exposed to their entire slate. Unlike Oscars, which run very single title focused campaigns, when you're running a campaign for something like Anora, you're only seeing Anora. You're not seeing the rest of a given studio slate.
- [13:37]
Matt Bellany
They're like a presidential campaign. You pick your horse, you back it, and you create a narrative and try to take it all the way to the finish line. Amy's a little different. You're going for volume.
- [13:46]
Debra Birnbaum
And it's really about that. Bragging rights for a studio.
- [13:48]
Matt Bellany
Yeah. And HBO lives and dies. Casey Bloys denies this, but HBO lives and dies based on that number. They get to where they can say we are the most nominated outlet or we got more nominations than we've ever gotten before. And that's why they stack it. They create shows based on this. Mountainhead exists on HBO because they thought they could put it out there right before the Emmy deadline and get a bunch of nominations in the TV movie category, plain and simple.
- [14:15]
Debra Birnbaum
Well, that goes to one of my favorite categories, the TV movie category. You know, we were talking at the top about one of the categories I would love to see change. What is a TV movie category anymore? It basically is a movie that doesn't have a theatrical run.
- [14:26]
Matt Bellany
Yeah. But for Netflix, that's all of them, except the token stuff they do to qualify for Oscars. Like, and they're picking and choosing based on what they think they can get nominations for in each category. Like for Emmys, Netflix is running Rebel Ridge, which was a well received and popular TV movie, on Netflix, and they think they can get Emmy nominations. Why aren't they running that for Oscars? Because they don't think it can compete for Oscars. It's not that kind of movie.
- [14:53]
Debra Birnbaum
Exactly. So it's, you know, it's almost like a non theatrical feature. It's a streaming movie, but it's made literally just to rack up the nomination. So, like, let's think about it. Don't you want to be more creatively inspired than that?
- [15:03]
Matt Bellany
I don't know. I mean, it's a game. I mean, they know that Steve Carell's gonna get nominated. Doesn't matter. HBO got a nomination last year for that. For Robert Downey Jr. On that sympathizer show that nobody watched. Because it's Robert effing Downey Jr. No.
- [15:17]
Debra Birnbaum
But he's not gonna get nominated because he goes up in that category against the limited actors. That's the problem with that category.
- [15:22]
Matt Bellany
Oh, interesting. Okay.
- [15:24]
Debra Birnbaum
Yes, because TV movie and limited actors all go up against each other. So you're, you're dealing with someone going for two hours of material up against eight hours of material.
- [15:31]
Matt Bellany
Interesting. Okay, well, there you go then. And then I'm proven wrong. I think they will get a nomination for TV movie, though.
- [15:36]
Debra Birnbaum
No, they will get a nomination for TV movie because it's Jesse Armstrong. And again, I think voters also vote for the thing that they think they're supposed to vote for. They hear Jesse Armstrong, they hear Mountain head, they hear HBO. It's an easy box to check 100%. And that category, it's such a mixed bag. You've got Bridget Jones and Rebel Ridge and then you've got Mountain Head, Bridget.
- [15:54]
Matt Bellany
Jones, a movie that came out in theaters and grossed like tens of millions of dollars overseas, but was on Peacock here.
- [16:01]
Debra Birnbaum
Never forget Chippendales and Dolly Parton, former winners of that category. It's just the most bizarre category ever. But.
- [16:12]
Matt Bellany
So how much does a billboard on Sunset Boulevard cost?
- [16:15]
Craig Horbeck
It really depends.
- [16:16]
Debra Birnbaum
I mean, look, it depends on how long it's going to run for. It depends on how long you light it up for. It depends on does it have extensions?
- [16:21]
Matt Bellany
Let's talk about me here. If a super fan of the Town One exists somewhere I'm sure has a ton of extra money and wants to buy me a billboard on Sunset that just says do the funniest thing ever. Voters vote for Matt Bellamy for guest actor in a comedy. How much would that cost for the month of May and June?
- [16:40]
Debra Birnbaum
Are you launching a GoFundMe?
- [16:42]
Matt Bellany
No, I'm not, but. But I, I am appealing to ultra rich billionaires who want to do the funniest thing ever.
- [16:49]
Debra Birnbaum
It would be pretty hilarious. I would say, first of all, good luck finding real estate on Sunset Boulevard at the time.
- [16:53]
Matt Bellany
Right, because Netflix owns it all.
- [16:55]
Debra Birnbaum
Exactly. I think it's pretty much all spoken for at this point.
- [16:58]
Matt Bellany
All right, so what is the cheapest billboard that I can buy? Let's get real here. I'm the Go, Homer Simpson. What is the second cheapest billboard in Los Angeles?
- [17:05]
Debra Birnbaum
Go, Homer Simpson. I think if you got 25 grand, I think if you could find yourself a billboard somewhere in Hollywood.
- [17:10]
Matt Bellany
Okay, so 25 grand billboard, and then I take a photo of it and put it on the ringer. Social media, and then hopefully people pay attention or I mentioned it on the show and voters maybe think it's funny and go there.
- [17:24]
Debra Birnbaum
I think you do it. I think you spread the word. I think you keep talking about it. You put it up on your socials. But I will give you another if you want to be optimistic about your chances. The ballot also comes out alphabetically. Now, they also have learned that they also have to reverse it because they realize that people at the top half of the Alphabet were getting more votes than people at the bottom half. So the fact that your name starts with B is also one of your advantages.
- [17:45]
Greg
How lazy are these people? This is embarrassing how these nominations are given out.
- [17:50]
Matt Bellany
Wait. So suck it, Cranston. I'm going to be above Cranston.
- [17:54]
Debra Birnbaum
So people will see your name before they get to Cranston.
- [17:56]
Greg
Scorsese has no shot against you, Matt.
- [17:58]
Debra Birnbaum
Well, they will.
- [17:59]
Matt Bellany
Unbelievable.
- [18:00]
Debra Birnbaum
Half of it get. Half of them will get it flipped. So they will come to Scorsese before you.
- [18:04]
Craig Horbeck
But for that half of them that.
- [18:05]
Debra Birnbaum
Get it, you know you will get it first.
- [18:07]
Matt Bellany
Should I be going negative? Should I be doing a whisper campaign about Bryan Cranston?
- [18:13]
Debra Birnbaum
I don't think that's going to go well for you.
- [18:15]
Matt Bellany
Ron Howard, kind of a dick in real life. Not really acting in that role.
- [18:20]
Debra Birnbaum
Try that.
- [18:21]
Craig Horbeck
See how well that works for you.
- [18:22]
Debra Birnbaum
To say he was playing himself, but.
- [18:25]
Matt Bellany
That'S especially funny when I'm literally playing myself. I will say, scott Feinberg at Hollywood Reporter put me on his list of potential nominees. I am the 22nd person likely to get a nomination. 22nd.
- [18:40]
Craig Horbeck
I'm checking.
- [18:40]
Debra Birnbaum
Gold Derby live, please.
- [18:42]
Matt Bellany
Where am I?
- [18:43]
Craig Horbeck
I'm sorry.
- [18:44]
Debra Birnbaum
I'm just not seeing you. So I think you gotta do a little bit more campaigning. Oh, wait, no, I'm sorry. I found you. You're number 52. I got it.
- [18:50]
Matt Bellany
I'm number 52. Most likely to get a nomination. Yes, Greg, can we do hats merch about this?
- [18:57]
Greg
Yeah, we'll do everything. I think this podcast for the next two months will just be dedicated to.
- [19:02]
Matt Bellany
Getting you An Emmy.
- [19:03]
Greg
All these voters are listening. They're listening right now.
- [19:06]
Matt Bellany
Insufferable. They're all, who? Who the hell does this guy think he is? He's not a real actor. Which is the funny. Which is the reason to vote for me. Okay, whatever. So the cost of this stuff, the fee per entry is a hundred bucks plus a $125 processing fee. So it's like $225 per entry, which doesn't seem like much, but could add up. You really have to get the support of the network. You can't go rogue. You have to be one of the anointed ones where they spend on the ads, they spend on the travel, they spend on everything to make a real go of it. It's not possible to get nominations without even the base level campaign, Am I right?
- [19:50]
Debra Birnbaum
Yes, but you also have to participate yourself. Like I said, it's not a participation trophy. You don't get it just for making the show. You also have to be willing to get out there and do the interviews and do the campaign and work it and be a part of it, too. You have to do the circuit and do the roundtables. And again, it's that m of not being seen as being too sweaty. But you've got to be in the race.
- [20:07]
Matt Bellany
Oh, this podcast just blew that up. I am now way too sweaty. Okay. And I'm just trying to think of the least I could spend to get myself in the race. I'm sure there are many, many talent who think, you know, I'm not getting the support I want from Netflix. They have not deemed me worthy of the bus benches and the billboards on Sunset and. And all the other stuff. I still want to get myself into the conversation. How do you do that? You know, can you do a campaign on fifty grand? A hundred grand?
- [20:41]
Craig Horbeck
You can.
- [20:42]
Debra Birnbaum
You really can. You can do a whisper campaign. You can do stuff on social.
- [20:44]
Matt Bellany
It's the. It's the Andrea Riseborough grassroots.
- [20:47]
Debra Birnbaum
And there aren't as many restrictions for an Emmy campaign as there are for an Oscar campaign.
- [20:52]
Matt Bellany
Oh, explain that.
- [20:54]
Debra Birnbaum
You know, as we've seen with the Oscar campaign, you know, people can't host each other's FYC events. They can't trash talk each other. And I'm not advocating for anybody trash talking each other. Don't get me wrong, but have you.
- [21:05]
Matt Bellany
Heard about Bryan Cranston, by the way? I've heard some things. I've heard some things.
- [21:11]
Debra Birnbaum
And of course, now, as soon as I say this, the rules are all going to change. But I think what you can do is you can have more fun with it. You can have fun on social. You can host and moderate each other's. There's a lot of agencies hosting screenings and things like that. So you can, like, you can lean on your support system to get out there for you.
- [21:27]
Matt Bellany
There's the Guillermo del Toro who's always available to moderate and people love him and.
- [21:32]
Debra Birnbaum
Yeah, exactly. So you can lean on your support system to get out there and campaign for you. Voters are paying attention. I mean, it's easier. I think an Emmy campaign is easier in that it's so centralized in la. You're not talking about a global campaign with international voters like you are for an Oscar campaign. It really just is about people in and out around LA where 90% of the voters are.
- [21:51]
Matt Bellany
Yeah. And the media outlets do. And Puck does these events. All the media outlets do events for these shows where they get together, you know, they bring in their readers and they do Q&As and show the clips and everything. It's the whole thing.
- [22:03]
Debra Birnbaum
Exactly. So it is so much about what's happening in the industry. So if you really, you really can focus it in L. A. And that's where you see so much happening in certain neighborhoods where people know voters live, like Burbank, the Palisades, the Valley, all of that, it's really concentrated. So you've got two weeks. It starts on June 12, it ends on June 23. You've got two weeks to make it happen.
- [22:22]
Matt Bellany
Yeah, I know back when people read print newspapers, they must still do it. The LA Times had a section called the Envelope. I think they still do it, but.
- [22:29]
Debra Birnbaum
They still do it.
- [22:30]
Matt Bellany
It only goes to certain readers that live in the desirable neighborhoods. And I'm not saying just rich people. It only goes to the. The pockets that have been identified as people who work in the television industry or the film industry. So if you're in one of those zip codes, you get this product and if you're not, tough luck.
- [22:47]
Craig Horbeck
There you go.
- [22:48]
Matt Bellany
And nobody. I mean, I know you, you operate one of these sites. But my experience at Hollywood Reporter was the vast majority of the Emmy oriented media was consumed by no one. The big franchises, your rankings and the roundtables and the, the inter. You know, the big video series, all that stuff. Yes, those got traffic, but like garden variety Emmy coverage, zero audience, especially online.
- [23:10]
Craig Horbeck
Look, we know at Gold Derby people come to us all the time because we are the only site that ranks everybody. Everybody has their own specific.
- [23:16]
Matt Bellany
That's your franchise.
- [23:17]
Craig Horbeck
That's Our franchise. So people come to us to see everyone's rankings, to see who's up against each other. And again, you know, now that the ballots are out, you'll be able to see how many submissions there are and how many spots are eventually going to be.
- [23:28]
Matt Bellany
But, like, Bella Ramsey talking about her process, like, nobody reads that stuff.
- [23:32]
Craig Horbeck
It's hard.
- [23:33]
Debra Birnbaum
Like, it's hard.
- [23:33]
Craig Horbeck
Especially when they're doing the rounds. Everyone's trying to find their own voice and figure out what makes them different than everybody else. But, like, you also sort of have to be in there and being part of the conversation. You do want to be in those headlines and those blasts. The trick is, how do you make it about your performance? And again, being part of the show that everyone's talking about.
- [23:50]
Greg
Matt, we're going to dedicate the next 10 call sheets to your process.
- [23:54]
Matt Bellany
My process? Actually, that's a good idea, Craig.
- [23:56]
Greg
Yeah.
- [23:57]
Craig Horbeck
How did you get into character, Matt?
- [23:58]
Matt Bellany
I should actually come up with a process. I need to think about that and determine what my process was and get into, really the bottom line, like, inner workings of Matt Bellamy and who he is and what he's thinking about.
- [24:12]
Greg
Can we have you read your own FYC ads on the show for yourself? We should do that. You should buy spots on the show on the town.
- [24:19]
Craig Horbeck
There you go.
- [24:20]
Matt Bellany
Craig, will you write them for me?
- [24:21]
Greg
Sure.
- [24:22]
Matt Bellany
I might vomit if I do that myself.
- [24:24]
Craig Horbeck
Do you have quotes about your performance?
- [24:26]
Matt Bellany
Oh, I need blurbs. Oh, I need blurbs. Will gold derby say something about me? Like, eminently likable. Gold derby.
- [24:34]
Greg
Transcendently meta.
- [24:36]
Matt Bellany
Yes, exactly.
- [24:37]
Craig Horbeck
The most meta performance of the year.
- [24:39]
Matt Bellany
The funniest thing ever. This is all sad. All right, well, I'm going to ask you to stick around for the call sheet because we are going to do some series predictions for the series categories. And please tell listeners that we are joking about me. I do not want them to vote for me or expect them to vote for me.
- [25:02]
Craig Horbeck
And do not start a GoFundMe.
- [25:04]
Matt Bellany
Do not. This is all a joke. I am not actually trying to get an Emmy nomination. Right, Craig Cranston. Yeah. I am talking shit about Bryan Cranston, though, because I feel like that's my lane. Everyone loves him, but I'm going to be the guy who just starts talking shit about Bryan Cranston. Craig, you have nothing to add?
- [25:22]
Greg
Actually drunk on set. I heard that.
- [25:25]
Matt Bellany
Way worse. I heard that was real hard stuff. Hard stuff, Craig.
- [25:28]
Greg
Yeah, he. The whole old school Hollywood buffet thing. They had to come up with that on the spot because he was a mess.
- [25:32]
Matt Bellany
Yeah, that was him. He came up with that whole thing.
- [25:35]
Craig Horbeck
It's hilarious.
- [25:37]
Matt Bellany
All right. Thank you, Deb.
- [25:39]
Craig Horbeck
Thank you. Thanks for having me.
- [25:42]
Matt Bellany
We are back with the call sheet. I've asked Deb to stay. We're going to do some Emmy predictions. Today being the start of voting, we're going to take the Scott Feinberg. Feinberg forecast. Projected nominee Scott, friend of the town. I used to work with him at Hollywood Reporter. He's among the best of these kind of prognosticators. The Emmy prognosticators are famously wrong a lot of the time, though, because of the reasons you said there's no season. They're sort of flying blind. But here we're going to go. Best drama, best comedy and best limited. Here are who Scott says will be the best drama series nominees. The Pit on hbo. Max. Severance on Apple tv. White Lotus on HBO Max. Last of Us, HBO Max, Diplomat. The Diplomat on Netflix andor on Disney. Slow Horses on Apple tv and the Handmaid's Tale on Hulu. Do you think he's right or would you swap something in for one or more of those projected nominees?
- [26:43]
Craig Horbeck
I think he's mostly right. I totally agree with him about the Pitt and Severance. I think Pitt is definitely the show to beat this season, certainly with Severance as well. I'm questioning Handmaid's Tale.
- [26:53]
Matt Bellany
Me, too.
- [26:54]
Craig Horbeck
I appreciate the nostalgia for the final.
- [26:55]
Matt Bellany
Season and the Trump stuff. It's relevant again, but I think you can't recreate that magic.
- [27:00]
Craig Horbeck
I don't think you can recreate that magic. I think its momentum's come and gone. So the question is, what gets that eighth slot? My pick would probably be Paradise. I think there's a lot of love for Sterling K. Brown and Dan Fogelman, and Hulu's run a really strong campaign for that show. So that would be probably the one I would give that eighth slot to.
- [27:17]
Matt Bellany
I actually think Squid Game could get in there above Handmaid's Tale and possibly above Slow Horses because the first season was big hit with the Emmys. They have the Netflix machine behind them. If it doesn't, that would mean only one Netflix series gets into best drama series, and that would be the Diplomat, which I do think will be nominated, but I think Netflix will get a second one with Squid Game.
- [27:43]
Craig Horbeck
I think Netflix is definitely gonna kill it in comedy, and it's a question of how much the Netflix momentum will carry for us. I think you're definitely right about Netflix having a really strong slate. I questioned the Squid Game of it all Cause the season wasn't as strong as the previous season.
- [27:55]
Matt Bellany
True. But it's certainly a show that everyone watched. The problem for Peacock is Day of the Jackal, which I really enjoyed. I would like to see that one get in. I don't think it'll quite make it because of the fact that not as many people watch Peacock. It's just harder for them to break through. But if I had to pick one that I wanted, it would be Day of the Jackal.
- [28:15]
Craig Horbeck
And the other one I would just call out is Landman on Paramount. Plous. Just in terms of a really popular show that everyone watched. If popularity rules, I think Landman gets in.
- [28:23]
Matt Bellany
And Billy Bob is one of those people that awards voters just love.
- [28:27]
Debra Birnbaum
Exactly.
- [28:28]
Matt Bellany
Great on that show. And it would not be anything without him. Paradise. Yeah, we'll see. I liked it. I watched it. But I don't know. The critics weren't necessarily all there for Paradise. Not that that matters totally, but we'll see. All right, let's go to comedy. These are Feinberg's picks for best comedy series. One is the studio. Obviously I'm biased there. Two Hacks the Bear. Not a comedy, but still in the comedy series category. Nobody wants this on Netflix only. Murders in the Building on Hulu. Abbott elementary on abc. Shrinking on Apple tv. And what we do in the Shadows on fx.
- [29:05]
Craig Horbeck
So here's the question again. Like, what does nostalgia for that final season get you? Does what we do?
- [29:10]
Matt Bellany
Yeah, I don't know. I mean, it's been canceled already. It's like six seasons. I know it's been an Emmy darling in the past. I don't know if it gets nominated for that final season.
- [29:19]
Craig Horbeck
Right. So I think that a slot is definitely the question for me.
- [29:22]
Matt Bellany
Oh, so the others you agree with?
- [29:24]
Craig Horbeck
The others I do agree with.
- [29:25]
Matt Bellany
You think nobody wants this is getting in?
- [29:27]
Craig Horbeck
Oh, I think 100% nobody wants us getting in. I think there's so much buzz about it. It was a big hit show. I think the star power on that one. Absolutely.
- [29:36]
Matt Bellany
Over four seasons, which didn't have the critics, but it had the stars.
- [29:40]
Craig Horbeck
It has stars. I think you can't argue with Tina.
- [29:42]
Matt Bellany
Fey and Steve Carell and Colman Domingo as well as an awards person.
- [29:46]
Craig Horbeck
Exactly. It's just. And again, the power of Netflix. I think if you think about a Netflix campaign, there are so many strong Netflix comedies. I think Netflix gets in there with another title. My question is about also the rehearsal, just because of all the news it made. Just as all of this was happening again. Love it or Hate it. I think just the conversation about Nathan Fielder in the rehearsal, like, does that give it enough momentum to get in there?
- [30:11]
Matt Bellany
That's a good question. Because as much momentum as there is around the press and the narrative about that show, how many people are actually watching it?
- [30:19]
Craig Horbeck
Right. But people are talking about it.
- [30:21]
Matt Bellany
They are. Yeah.
- [30:22]
Craig Horbeck
And I think you can't discount the buzz. I will just go back to not to, you know, talk about a past campaign that I ran, but jury duty, everyone was talking about Jury Duty. Everyone was talking about that show. And so a lot of that just drives you straight to like, oh, you're watching, you're reading the ballot. You're like, oh, I heard about that show. Everyone's talking about it.
- [30:40]
Debra Birnbaum
I'm going to go for it.
- [30:41]
Matt Bellany
Amazing. I didn't watch it, but it seems to be something that I should vote for.
- [30:46]
Craig Horbeck
Exactly. There's just too much otherwise. There's too much. And so you got to. That gets you a vote.
- [30:51]
Matt Bellany
I know. And Poker Face has the peacock problem, but Poker Face, Natasha Lyonne, everyone. Love. They've done a good campaign.
- [30:59]
Greg
Also feels like it just came out.
- [31:01]
Matt Bellany
Yeah, well, that. But a lot of these shows have. They put these shows in April and May because they want the momentum to carry through to the Emmys.
- [31:10]
Craig Horbeck
Exactly. There's recency bias, and they also get double bang for their buck. To your point about how much the campaigns cost, you can get more bang for your buck when you're spending on the consumer campaign. And it also works for your rewards campaign.
- [31:20]
Matt Bellany
Right. I think shrinking would be higher if it just came out. Critics love that show and Apple has had to kind of reintroduce it for awards voters. But like Harrison Ford, Jason Siegel, like the Bill Lawrence shows tend to do well as Ted Lasso. People like, I think shrinking is a shoo in for a nomination.
- [31:37]
Craig Horbeck
And look, and it's always worked for the Bear. You're voting for the past season of the Bear, but you're watching the new one.
- [31:42]
Matt Bellany
I know that's going to be the problem this year because last season was not great and they're purposefully putting the ads for the new season out now. And if it does get nominations, the new season will have just aired as people are voting for last season and they're hoping that it will cross over and maybe people will vote for it anyways.
- [31:57]
Craig Horbeck
Yep.
- [31:58]
Matt Bellany
All right, let's go on to limited or anthology series. Adolescence, Netflix, the Penguin, hbo, Max Monsters, the Lyle and Eric Menendez Story, Netflix, Dying for Sex, FX and Black Mirror, Netflix. I got some Nits to pick with this.
- [32:17]
Craig Horbeck
All right, you picked it first.
- [32:18]
Matt Bellany
I don't think Monsters is getting nomination.
- [32:21]
Greg
That feels like it came out a.
- [32:22]
Matt Bellany
Year ago, and it was. It was very popular and got a lot of headlines, and the Menendez is. Are now, like, maybe getting out of jail because of it. But I just feel like the Ryan Murphy rose has wilted a little. His stuff doesn't always necessarily get nominated, and I feel like it felt. It feels old. I'd put Presumed Innocent in there, which is also old. But I feel like that has been positioned as kind of one of the breakouts from Apple, and they've done a good campaign. I think that one gets in over Monsters.
- [32:53]
Craig Horbeck
Yeah, I agree. I mean, the problem with this category is, like, Adolescents is getting the Emmy.
- [32:58]
Matt Bellany
Yeah, they're gonna win. They're gonna win.
- [32:59]
Craig Horbeck
They're just gonna win. So then everything else is just sort of like, all right, who just gets to be nominated alongside them? And I think that's the question. And then you're dealing with some shows that sort of. That came out last fall. So you give it to Penguin because obviously Colin Farrell gives a great performance, and then I just think it's. And dying for Sax because Michelle Williams gives a great performance. And I think the two other slots are up for grabs. I loved Presumed Innocent. I think it gets in. They just didn't do a lot of campaigning.
- [33:25]
Matt Bellany
Yeah, Jake did not do stuff. He's on Broadway right now.
- [33:28]
Craig Horbeck
Exactly.
- [33:29]
Debra Birnbaum
So that's a question.
- [33:29]
Craig Horbeck
I mean, I think disclaimer, huge star power, you know, not great reviews, and they didn't do a lot of campaigning.
- [33:36]
Matt Bellany
It's funny if there's a spoiler. I think actually Zero Day, the De Niro show, could get a nomination because it was super popular and it's got De Niro, and it kind of feels important even though I watched it. It's fine. It's not great, but it feels like the kind of show that gets nominated. And Feinberg has it way down in, like, the Possibilities category. I wouldn't be surprised if that got in as well. Maybe even over, like, Black Mirror, which I know people love, but also feels a little dated.
- [34:04]
Craig Horbeck
Right. I feel like I'm shilling for Netflix on this podcast. But again, I just feel like, again, because they have so many strong titles, like, and I wouldn't discount apple cider vinegar again, because you've got Caitlin Deaver, who's also in Last of Us. I think there's just that name recognition that's happening there, too.
- [34:18]
Matt Bellany
I don't even know what that is. What is that? This is sad. I don't even know. I mean, there's.
- [34:23]
Craig Horbeck
There's just too much tv. There's too much tv, but it's about an Australian con woman anyway.
- [34:29]
Matt Bellany
All right, so interesting if Feinberg's predictions come true, zero nominations for your alma mater, Amazon. That's tough.
- [34:38]
Craig Horbeck
Well, they also canceled one of their top shows.
- [34:40]
Matt Bellany
Yeah, why did that happen? They had that ballerina show, Etouille, right? Is that how you pronounce it? Etoile. They have a ballerina show from the Mrs. Maisel people, and they canceled it in the middle of the Emmy campaign.
- [34:52]
Craig Horbeck
Interesting choice, that.
- [34:54]
Matt Bellany
What are you doing?
- [34:56]
Craig Horbeck
You're going to have to ask them.
- [34:57]
Matt Bellany
I mean, not that it was a shoo in it. Feinberg has it way down in the possibilities category, but, like, at least put some heft behind your campaign. If I was working on that campaign, I'd be like, you just shot us in the head.
- [35:11]
Craig Horbeck
Yeah.
- [35:12]
Matt Bellany
All right. You have no answer to that?
- [35:14]
Craig Horbeck
I honestly have no answer for that one.
- [35:15]
Matt Bellany
All right, well, I appreciate you. We'll see how you do on these nominations when they come out. When's the nomination day?
- [35:22]
Craig Horbeck
July 15th.
- [35:23]
Matt Bellany
July 15th. We will be there. All right. Thank you very much.
- [35:26]
Craig Horbeck
All right. Thank you.
- [35:27]
Matt Bellany
All right, that's the show for today. I want to thank my guest Deborah Birnbaum. I want to thank producer Craig Horbeck, art editor Jesse Lopez, and I want to thank you. We will see you next week.