Is the “Netflix of AI” App a Friend or Foe to Hollywood?

Summary

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Podcast Summary:

The Town with Matthew Belloni
Episode: Is the “Netflix of AI” App a Friend or Foe to Hollywood?
Date: October 16, 2025
Host: Matthew Belloni
Guest: Edward Saatchi, CEO of Fable

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on the disruptive “Showrunner” AI app developed by Fable, which allows users to generate entire episodes of TV shows—potentially set in worlds like Star Wars or Friends—by leveraging artificial intelligence trained on existing IP (intellectual property). Host Matthew Belloni probes CEO Edward Saatchi on the implications for Hollywood, creators, IP owners, and fans: Is this technology a creative boon, a business opportunity, or an existential threat to the industry and its workforce?

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Hollywood’s Evolving Attitude Toward AI

[04:01 - 05:50]

• Edward Saatchi notes a perceptible shift from resistance and fear to cautious engagement within Hollywood studios regarding AI.
• Studios are no longer simply defensive about AI; they’re actively adopting it, especially for content creation.
• The division between “good” and “bad” AI actors is blurring, as AI tools become standard even behind studio walls.

“A year ago there was a lot of hesitation, fear, anger, how dare you... I think subsequent to that, people have started to use AI. They are incorporating it into their workflows.”
— Edward Saatchi [04:07]

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2. The “Netflix of AI” Model and IP Licensing

[05:50 - 09:49]

• Saatchi envisions a world where, alongside a film release (e.g., Star Wars), fans can purchase access to a curated AI tool that lets them generate and explore stories within that universe—strictly under the IP owner’s control.
• This model monetizes fan engagement through subscriptions and credit-based content generation.
• All user-generated stories remain the property of the IP owner; fans pay for access to the “sandbox” but retain no rights over derivative content.

“In our world, a Star Wars movie would come out in the cinema on a Friday, and alongside it would be a Star Wars model... you’re paying for the privilege to do it. Everything you generate is still owned by Disney.”
— Edward Saatchi [06:20]

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3. Guardrails and IP Respect vs. Fan Creativity

[11:10 - 16:32]

• Studios desire “walled garden” environments where user-generated content is shared only within controlled platforms, not open internet.
• Strict creative controls are crucial: the AI must respect the internal logic and canon of the IP, appeasing both studios and true fans.
• Belloni and Saatchi discuss the tension between “cheap thrills” (wild, out-of-canon content) and the deeper satisfaction of creating content that authentically fits a beloved universe.

“I think of it more as respect for the IP so that you can’t do a lot of things... that violate the IP… Fans will be like, oh, wow, they really put a lot of thought into this.”
— Edward Saatchi [13:47]

“There's a much bigger thrill to: holy shit, I'm actually in the show. Like, this is really an episode.”
— Edward Saatchi [16:32]

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4. Showrunner vs. Other AI Video Tools (e.g., Sora): Story, Not Memes

[14:57 - 16:48]

• Saatchi distinguishes Showrunner from meme-oriented, rapid AI video apps: it generates sustained, story-driven television episodes that honor world-building detail (character relationships, physical layouts, recurring gags, etc.).

“…We care about actual stories, whether that's episodes or movies or sophisticated scenes that respect the characters and the relationships.”
— Edward Saatchi [14:57]

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5. The Role of Human Creators: Tool or Competitor?

[16:48 - 21:14]

• The technology challenges traditional creative hierarchies, potentially reducing the role of writers and showrunners in the content pipeline.
• Saatchi provocatively frames AI as a “competitor,” not merely a creative tool or assistant.
• He advocates for honesty: “this is creative by itself today,” not just a passive paintbrush.

“A competitor is different to a replacement. But... it’s just a pencil. I don’t know any pencils that start writing by themselves.”
— Edward Saatchi [20:22]

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6. Labor and Legal Hurdles: Writers, Actors, and Rights

[22:31 - 26:47]

• Saatchi foresees revenue-sharing for core show creators, but concedes complexities with voice actors and likeness rights—especially for animation.
• The current focus remains on animated projects, as live-action rights are “too disturbing” or unresolved.
• Unions will demand credit and compensation, and some actors may simply veto participation.

“I think it does throw up really mad issues when you start to think about using an actor's face. That is just so uncomfortable that we're not thinking about it right now.”
— Edward Saatchi [23:32]

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7. Business Model: AI Syndication and Revenue Potential

[24:03 - 25:27]

• AI could extend the life of franchises (“AI syndication”), generating new episodes beyond a show’s traditional run, creating evergreen content and continuous revenue for IP owners and potentially for voice talent.
• Some writers—especially those not in primary ownership roles—may be displaced as AI takes on the content generation role.

“The new version of syndication is that once you have enough episodes, you can generate... many more episodes and people can play in your show. And then it's evergreen, it's generating revenue for you on an ongoing basis.”
— Edward Saatchi [24:11]

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8. Fan Appetite and Market Signals

[26:59 - 28:13]

• Demand for bootleg, AI-generated versions of popular TV shows is already strong, as seen in online communities.
• Saatchi likens this moment to Napster vs. Spotify: better to offer a legal, monetized alternative than try to suppress inevitable technological change.

“…Consumers are telling you they want this... so they're probably going to use bootleg tools to do it. It's really, you could say, a Napster and Spotify moment and we're trying to position ourselves as a bit of a Spotify.”
— Edward Saatchi [27:22]

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9. AI-generated "Slop" and the Value of IP Curation

[29:21 - 30:31]

• With a glut of low-quality AI content on the horizon, curated, properly licensed IP will become even more important as a marker of quality and trust for consumers.

“…With all of the AI generated slop that is going to flood the Internet... maybe this makes IP even more important. It's the great distinguisher. And when the world is flooded, this is the peak that escapes the flood. Known properties.”
— Matthew Belloni [29:21]

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Notable Quotes

• “A year ago there was a lot of hesitation, fear, anger… now people are starting to use AI themselves.”
  — Edward Saatchi [04:07]

• “It's the Metaverse, but on TV and on screen, which I think is what ultimately was always going to win.”
  — Edward Saatchi [07:33]

• “I think honesty is better. The honest truth is that this is creative by itself today and that is artistically very interesting, something Andy Warhol would have found completely fascinating.”
  — Edward Saatchi [20:22]

• "This is a massive new canvas. You're going to build Springfield in great detail and then Springfield can generate episodes of The Simpsons. It is radical, but it's also a whole new canvas for artists."
  — Edward Saatchi [18:15]

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Key Segment Timestamps

• [03:50] — Belloni introduces guest Edward Saatchi and sets up key questions about AI and Hollywood IP.
• [04:07] — Saatchi on Hollywood’s evolving attitude toward AI.
• [06:20] — Pitching the value of Showrunner to IP owners like Disney.
• [09:49] — Discussion of requirements for building AI models in licensed IP universes.
• [13:47] — On the necessity and meaning of guardrails for creative AI.
• [16:32] — The deeper resonance of “living” inside a beloved TV universe.
• [20:22] — Saatchi's candid admission that AI is a creative competitor, not just a tool.
• [24:11] — The emerging concept of “AI syndication” for ongoing content creation.
• [27:22] — Parallels to Napster and Spotify: legalizing the inevitable.
• [29:21] — Belloni on why valuable IP will matter even more in the AI-generated-content era.

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Memorable Moments

• Belloni jokes about “naked Yoda” ([13:47]), sparking a candid discussion on the importance of preserving IP integrity.
• Saatchi compares building AI-powered story worlds to the role of “Ed Harris in The Truman Show” ([18:15]), highlighting the creative potential for artists as “world builders.”
• Saatchi rebukes the industry myth that AI is “just a tool,” insisting on honesty about the technology’s independent creativity.

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Conclusion

In this candid and often provocative conversation, Edward Saatchi outlines a future where AI democratizes—but also threatens to upend—TV content creation, placing fresh creative power (and risk) into the hands of both studios and fans. The path forward will involve new licensing models, creative guardrails, and hard conversations with guilds and talent, but the audience demand is clear: fans want the chance to remix, inhabit, and expand their favorite story worlds—provided the result still feels authentic and premium.

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Transcript

[A]

A wise man once said, in this world, nothing can be certain except Death, Taxes and your boy Johnny Bananas. Welcome to the brand new Death, Taxes and Bananas channel where we'll be recapping season 41 of the Challenge every week with all your favorite cast members. I'm gonna dive deep into the drama, get every side of every story and tell stories about behind the scenes on set antics. So follow Death, Taxes and Bananas on Spotify where you can watch every episode or Sponsor subscribe to YouTube.com athtaxesbananas on YouTube.

[B]

This episode of the Town is presented by FX's Alien Earth. Set in the year 2120, the planet's greatest threat is discovered after a mysterious space vessel crash lands on Earth. Hailed as a dizzyingly haunting epic by the Wrap, the series stars Sidney Chandler, Timothy Oliphant and Babu Sise. FX's Alien Earth is now streaming on Hulu. RogerEbert.com declares that the series from Noah Hawley shatters already high expectations with standout performances. FX's alien Earth is now streaming on Hulu. This episode is brought to you by amc. Anne Rice's immortal universe expands with the gritty spy thriller the Secret Order. Guy is recruited by an otherworldly organization called the Talamasca to help solve a murder. Discover the shadowy powers that protect us from what we cannot see. Catch the two episode premiere of the Secret Order October 26th on AMC. Start your free trial now. It is Thursday, October 16th. I'll be honest, I really resist having AI people on the town to talk about AI. There's just so much spin and self interested positioning going on there. But we all know how important the topic is for Hollywood and every AI company is not the same. Of course today we're talking about an interesting one called Fable and their product called Showrunner. You might have seen some of their AI generated episodes of south park that went viral during the Guild strikes a couple years ago. And they have a new app called Showrunner that launched this summer. I'm sure many creators are already wincing at that name its backers which now include Amazon thanks to a recent function funding round. They say users are able to generate TV episode length videos that. Here's the hook uses licensed IP that essentially means anyone could create fan fiction twists on their favorite stories or genres or shows, or insert themselves and their friends into the narrative, essentially making them the hero of any Hollywood story. They're calling it the Netflix of AI, which sounds great. They've got some media attention for that, but the plan raises tons of questions like which IP owners would allow this kind of use. Hollywood studios tend to control pretty tightly how their IP is used. And studios, like game companies, have a long history of having to deal with those owners when they make games or other products that allow people to manipulate the characters. And how would this company and its partners make money on this? What happens if and when a user generated Game of Thrones storyline becomes more popular than the actual Game of Thrones stories? Lots of questions. So that's why I wanted Edward Saatchi to come on the show. He's the CEO of Fable. He used to work at Oculus, and he's going to explain to me how this all works, how creators can potentially benefit from the technology, and how his conversations with these studios are going. Today it's showrunner, AI and the potential democratization of making TV and movies. From the ringer and Puck. I'm Matt Bellany and this is the. Okay. We are here with Edward Saatchi, CEO of Fable and a big proponent of the new product, Showrunner. Welcome.

[C]

Good to see you, Matt.

[B]

Okay, so I have many, many questions. First of all, I need you to tell me about your conversations with the Hollywood studios about your product. How are those going?

[C]

You know, I think things have. Have changed a lot over the last. Yeah, okay.

[B]

For the better for you or for the worse?

[C]

Well, for the better for us, obviously, but I think a year ago there was a lot of hesitation, fear, anger, how dare you. Right, exactly. And sort of a curiosity might be the best way to put it. And I think subsequent to that, people have started to use AI. They are incorporating it into their workflows. And I think probably the biggest shift has been that all of the studios have started to use AI themselves. And if I were to put it in more vivid terms, the barbarians at the gate were, let's say a little while ago, the people who were training AI models on everything on the Internet. Those are the terrible people. And the good guys are the ones who either don't use AI at all or. Or use only licensed source models where every single little thing that it was trained on was licensed.

[B]

And you are not that you are somewhere in the middle.

[C]

Well, yeah, I think that's changed a lot in that the new barbarians at the gate are the people who want to figure out how to generate entertainment. So with Sora ii, we saw that, and with Showrunner, which is what I work on, we saw a shift where there are teams now working on AI that can make episodes of shows, whether IP or not, try to tell good stories. And so those Previous barbarians. They're sort of inside the castle now of like, oh, God. Okay, well, you guys don't seem so bad anymore. Let's think about what it means when there's just a button that says, let's generate the next episode. Let's create the next episode.

[B]

Okay, but there's two things going on here. There's general AI generated video content that we could talk about that is not based on IP explicitly, even though it's sort of all based on IP because you're ingesting a lot of this stuff to create your models. But I want to talk about specifically the AI video set in IP worlds. You're talking about Star wars, you're talking about Indiana Jones, and, like, give me your pitch. If you're sitting down with Bob Iger, why would Bob Iger let you do this?

[C]

So I think it's time to stop seeing AI as a way to play defense of. Let's save money on a VFX shot in the next Star wars movie and think about it as a way to play offense and actually generate entirely new kinds of revenue for, let's say, a Disney. So, you know, in our world, a Star wars movie would come out in the cinema on a Friday, and alongside it would be a Star wars model that a lot of care has gone into, a lot of love. Maybe there are locked planets, there are locked characters and storylines, and you're prompting to explore that world, and you're paying for the privilege to do it. Everything that you generate is still owned by Disney.

[B]

That's a key point there. And I'm curious how that would work. But you get out of the Star wars movie, there's some console gaming area that you go into. Or are you allowed to do this at home?

[C]

You would do this at home. Okay, so you would be at home on your phone. You might be in a Disney area. You go to a different section of Disney where you can generate entertainment within story worlds.

[B]

It's the Metaverse. It's finally the metaverse.

[C]

Well, it's the Metaverse, but on TV and on screen, which I think is what ultimately was always going to win.

[B]

You get an upgraded subscription to Disney, you pay 30 bucks a month, and you are able to come home from a Star wars movie and create your own Star wars story with you battling alongside Rey and Finn and all of them.

[C]

Or it could be a fictional story that somebody would say, there's this planet that I've always been curious about. They only mentioned it once, and you never got to see it. And I've spent last two years just really building out the story of this world and this cantina and that's a whole little world that you can go into. And it's got a fan base. All of it's owned by Disney and all of it can be monetized for views by Disney. And the people who are creating within that world, the fans, they have to pay for that privilege too.

[B]

It's a video game. It's a video game on steroids.

[C]

Yeah, I think that's right. I think it's a sort of roadblocks like opportunity and you know, Disney invested in Fortnite, obviously, but. But this is something where you can actually share stories with your friends, share movies, share episodes. It's very subversive. I mean, I don't think there's any denying that because you're saying, here's the movie and here's a way to make your own and to make your own episodes and to make your own stories. Some of you are going to make good ones and most of you are going to probably put yourselves in it and it's going to become more social and fun. And I think that applies to. Obviously we did South Park AI as an experiment to kind of show people how our model could be used. We didn't release it because we didn't want people making bootleg south park episodes. But to kind of illustrate the point that it is possible, think about that. With all of the beloved ip, the folks who love those, they wouldn't fight over ownership. Right. They would sign a terms of service that say, I don't own any of this derivative content. The IP holder owns it and I'm going to pay the IP holder for the privilege to be able to play in the sandbox of that story world. So I think it's a big new category.

[B]

Yeah, it's licensed high end fan fiction. If you want Edward the Vampire to be in love with you in the Twilight universe, maybe you can create that fan fiction love affair and just lose yourself in that.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay. But you do require a company like Disney to allow you to create that. What would they have to turn over to you to create that model?

[C]

Yeah, I don't think it's just about turning over. You know, think about how a video game adaptation is made. It's not so much an arm's length relationship of, you know, here's everything we shot. Figure something out. You would actually bake into the model. The story world characters you would think about. What are the locked elements within this model right now when you prompt A video model. It's pretty random. It's all over the place. Even if it's Star wars, you can put your stormtroopers into ancient Rome, really anachronistic stuff like that. This would be really thought through, carefully thought through with the creative leadership of that particular IP and it would be its own story world.

[B]

So presumably these user generated Star wars stories would be shareable on YouTube and elsewhere on the Internet and potentially they would end up competing with the real Star wars stories and the Internet would be flooded with this user generated IP based content. I don't think Disney would love that.

[C]

So some of the studios talking to do want a walled garden approach where as part of the terms of service, not only do you agree as a fan that you don't own anything, you generate within the story world and that you're paying, and that some of that's going to go back, you're buying credits to be able to generate, but also that you can't share outside of the walled garden.

[B]

So only on Disney, only in the Star wars section of Disney can you.

[C]

Do this, that or even less. Right. I mean, just to start with, to get the studios comfortable, you know, they choose what gets shared at all. Right. So like they see it and they can like decide something's shareable. I think very quickly they'll see that consumers are sophisticated enough to delineate between footage from, as an example, footage from Fortnite where you've got a bunch of Disney characters running around doing something crazy. So consumers have gotten used to delineating between those things. And I think we're already past the point where people are concerned that video games cannibalize movies. It's sort of, it's brand extension. It helps you kind of grow your brand. But I think those are the early questions that people will have to figure out. I think maybe the broader question, the way that I sort of think about it is instead of AI just being a production tool, maybe it's a shift similar to the shift from cinema to television, more control for consumers, cinema to video, more control to consumers. VHS cinema to streaming, more control for consumers. Cinema to gaming, more control for consumers. And cinema to AI, more control for consumers in that now on your streaming platform you get to have the fun of playing with this content. So it's not inert, you're actually getting to play with it.

[B]

Yeah, but in all of those innovations there have been guardrails where the IP owner has a pretty significant influence over how it is used. In the articles I've read about this you have been talking about guardrails. And not just, you know, Yoda all of a sudden is naked or something like that, but, like, things in these games. Yoda doesn't do things that Yoda wouldn't do do in the movies, but what you're talking about. And if there's control, Yoda could have a lightsaber that he would never have in the regular Star wars world. Or maybe baby Yoda has five brothers and sisters. We've never heard of things like that.

[C]

I'd go beyond the word guardrails, which I think often makes you think of. Okay, well, the basics of, like, let's not have things that are sexually offensive or violent.

[B]

I'm sorry I put the term naked Yoda in everybody's head.

[C]

No, exactly. That's where my mind is now. Like, you know, I'm never getting past that. I think of it more as respect for the ip so that you can't do a lot of things that you might want to do but that violate the ip. And I actually think having that quite strong line will be respected by the consumer. If they want to go and make janky stuff that has no relationship to the core ip, then they're not maybe as real fans and the true fans will be like, oh, wow. They really put a lot of thought into this. And it's so cool that the whole model respects the IPs, but it does limit.

[B]

There are people who would love for Yoda to be able to wield a weapon that doesn't exist in the Star wars universe and things like that. Even on Sora. My friend Kevin was showing me all these videos that he made. He's a big golfer of him playing at the Masters and him, you know, making a shot and getting a hug from a dolphin and things like that. That would never happen. That that's the fun of Sora. And you kind of have to be the fun police.

[C]

I think you do. If you want to respect IP on Showrunner, you can make your own shows. I think that drawing a hard line of, like, no, we actually do care about story, which is very different to Sora, which is about memes and, like, something very quick hit 10 seconds. We care about actual stories, whether that's episodes or movies or sophisticated scenes that respect the characters and the relationships. Like, let's say you wanted to make episodes of Friends with AI. You'd really need to understand where Joey's room is next to Chandler's room. Then they have the living room corridor, Monica and Rachel's. You have to really get that world.

[B]

But you've trained on all that work if you do this correctly, if you've.

[C]

Done a deal with them.

[B]

So you wouldn't train if you haven't done a deal with them?

[C]

No, no. I think you want to work with the IP holders.

[B]

So if Craig has always wanted to be friends with Joey and he is using your product and you have a deal with Warner Brothers for Friends, Craig could create an episode of Friends where Joey has a new friend and they go out drinking and playing sports, and all of a sudden, Craig is accepted into the friends group.

[C]

Yeah. So you'd want it to feel like the show Friends so that the formula of the show Friends is being respected and it feels like an actual episode. And that's a big thrill. Right? There's a little thrill that comes from subversion of having Joey, like, you know, he's doing something completely mad. That's a little thrill. It's a cheap thrill. There's a much bigger thrill to, holy shit, I'm actually in the show. Like, this is really an episode.

[B]

Joey's actually friends with me.

[C]

Exactly. That's like, that's. And that. That comes from a lot of respect and care and understanding of storytelling. We're a part Pixar team and ML team. Like, you have to actually care about storytelling, which I think doesn't exist.

[B]

And you believe your model does care about and replicate the storytelling skill. Because the Hollywood Reporter gave your technology to three professional showrunners, and they reported back and they weren't that impressed. They said that it was fine to kind of replicate the look and feel, but one writer of the Neighborhood said, none of them wound up being, to me, especially funny or clever.

[C]

Yeah. I mean, when you take into account that what the product is doing is so massively offensive. I think people come with their own preconceptions. Because if you really step back and this is where I got to have lunch with a hero of mine, Paul Schrader, who had said, this is a Deep Blue and Kasparov moment for creativity. And I think what we're saying is extremely offensive and provocative, which is, this isn't just a tool. This is a competitor. This is something that is going to. You're going to say, I want to be in the episode, make it good, and you're going to give a sentence or two, and eventually it's going to make 22 good minutes.

[B]

You think so? And how far are we from that?

[C]

I think we already are making three, four minutes that are good.

[B]

And then maybe you have a writer who does A polish on top of that and you cut down your costs of creating a sitcom from a showrunner and five eps and a 10 person writer's room to one or two people.

[C]

Yeah, I think of it a little differently. Not the polish. You can do that. I think that's true. And I think Disney or others will see really good episodes and say, hey, we want to actually put some more budget behind this and make this even better. Because you've got such a great core. That's one thing. But another is writers and directors working to build out the story world, being a bit like the Ed Harris character in the Tuman show or Philip Seymour Hoffman in Synecdoche New York, actually building a world that then the AI is like working with. So there. I think that's where I think the creativity is coming from. I think just saying, hey, you're going to polish AI now is obviously far too depressing. Saying, this is a massive new canvas. You're going to build Springfield in great detail and then Springfield can generate episodes of the Simpsons. It is radical, but it's also a whole new canvas for artists.

[B]

Yeah, but Springfield wasn't Springfield until multiple seasons of writers coming up with storylines that made spring Springfield what it is, dotted with interesting characters and locations and storylines. Is that possible in this model?

[C]

Yeah, I think we would be pulling some of that up earlier, as you would with video game, where you're building out a story world more upfront for others to play in. In this case, you would actually put a lot of effort into that Star wars story world or Simpsons Springfield storyworld or in an original show, you'd say, I have a whole world in my head that I want to tie a model to.

[B]

And you mentioned Paul Schrader, the writer of Taxi Driver, Raging Bull. He actually posted something on this topic. He said, if I were starting my career now, that's where my head would be at. It's no longer possible for a young filmmaker to ignore the potential of AI and yet you say it's a competitor. You don't believe this is just a tool? Because everybody in, you know, the people who are advocating for AI say, oh, it's not replacing. It's only a tool. It's something that's going to help. It's like Google eliminated research. Like, this is just going to be something we all use to help us express ourselves. You're not saying that. You're saying this is a replacement.

[C]

A competitor is different to a replacement. But I think they, they say, don't worry, it's just a pencil. Don't worry, it's just a paintbrush. I don't know any pencils that start writing by themselves. So I think people are highly intelligent. They can see through this completely. And I think honesty is better. The honest truth is that this is creative by itself today and that that is artistically very interesting, something Andy Warhol would have found completely fascinating. And it's a new artistic medium and it's the first artistic medium that is aware and intention. People hear it's just a tool, it's just a pencil. They see through it. And it actually is more frightening because you think, what are you hiding from me? Like, if you're really saying that, you know it's not true. So you must be hiding something. So it's better to be honest, I think.

[B]

This episode is brought to you by 20th Century Studios New film Deliver Me From Nowhere, starring Golden Globe winner Jeremy Allen White and Academy Award nominee Jeremy Strong. Scott Cooper, director of the Academy Award winning movie Crazy Heart, brings you the story of the most pivotal chapter in the life of an iconic. Don't miss the movie. Critics are raving is the real deal. An intelligent, deliberately paced journey into the soul of an artist. Springsteen. Deliver Me from Nowhere Only in theaters October 24th. Get your tickets now. This episode is brought to you by FX's alien Earth. Set in the year 2120, the planet's greatest threat is discovered after a mysterious space vessel crash lands on Earth. Hailed as a dizzyingly haunting epic by the Wrap, the series stars Sidney Chandler, Timothy Olyphant and Babu Sise. FX's Alien Earth is now streaming on Hulu. RogerEbert.com declares that the series from Noah Hawley shatters already high expectations with standout performances. FX's alien Earth is now streaming on Hulu. How are you getting around the guilds here? Because I'm sure our good friend Duncan CrabTree Ireland at SAG and the Heads of the Writers Guild, they're probably having a heart attack right now.

[C]

Yeah. So I think it does work best with animation now because you've got, you know, they have their own skill. I know, I know.

[B]

You say that like you're swatting it away. But they're pretty powerful too and they represent writers and you know, the recent strike, they got the ability, the writers did that. If you are using AI, you must credit a person writer and pay that person writer for totally.

[C]

So in our world, the show creator is that writer. The person who's come up with the world. They're getting a rev share. Every time somebody writes, they're getting the majority of the money. When somebody makes a new scene with their show, makes a new character, makes a new episode. So to our mind, it's the money should flow to the creative person at the core of it. I think it does throw up really mad issues when you start to think about using an actor's face. That is just so uncomfortable that we're not thinking about it right now. So we are focused on animation. I think that's something that is too disturbing.

[B]

There's separate sets of rights there with right of publicity and all kinds of stuff.

[C]

It's just disturbing. It's weird. I think Sora2 is interesting that you could use other humans in your. Other people in your videos. But it's just. It's too early to think about that, I think.

[B]

So if the Simpsons was canceled by Fox and Disney, you are saying that you could do a deal with Disney where you would be able to create episodes of the Simpsons that could match what is currently produced. You believe that right now?

[C]

Yeah. Think about it as AI Syndication.

[B]

No, but that's distributing existing product. This is creating something new.

[C]

I'm saying that is the AI version of syndication. But in the past you'd have so much that you could distribute it 24 7. The new version of syndication is that once you have enough episodes, you can generate. Unlimited is such a provocative term. But you can generate many more episodes and people can play in your show. And then it's evergreen. It's generating revenue for you on an ongoing basis. The IP is staying fresh and it's not as much of a hits driven business. And also you're not waiting years between seasons. So yes, in the Simpsons case, that would be something where it could continue to generate money outside of the seasons and even off if it was canceled.

[B]

How do you deal with the voices?

[C]

Yeah, well, that's what I was getting at with pure animation for original stuff.

[B]

You sighed like, oh, these actors.

[C]

No, no, I don't think you could deal with it without giving them the money.

[B]

Yeah, they make a lot of money, those voice people.

[C]

Exactly. So they, you know, you create something where they're making the same amount of money as they would for episodes and people are paying money credits to generate. I think you have an extra issue beyond money, which is some or many of those actors may just veto it and say, I'm just not doing it. I don't want to do that.

[B]

They're so rich. Why would they?

[C]

Why would they. They may feel it's very unpleasant and not good. But from a business Perspective, I think they would receive the same amounts as they would for the other recording sessions, but they still might veto it, which is totally their, you know, that's up to them.

[B]

Right. And let's say you are James Earl Jones and you know, you're old and about to die and you do a big deal where you license your voice for future Star wars materials and your family will benefit from that forever.

[C]

Yeah. It has to be up to each actor. And I think that that is one of the challenges with let's do Riggan, Mort. Let's strike a deal like who you're striking a deal with. You have to include the voice talent. So that's many people. So, you know, it would take a while to get one of those deals done. Much longer for live action. But for animation, you'd have to bring everyone along with you. But I think there's definitely a financial upside to the talent as well as to the IP holder.

[B]

Except for the writers. They're screwed.

[C]

Well, no, I don't think so. I mean, in this world, a Matt Groening is getting money every single time. Sure.

[B]

I'm talking about the writing staff of the Simpsons that would be fired if the show were canceled and then you would replace them going forward.

[C]

I think that's why I sort of say it's a competitor, not a tool. And I think that's, you know, it's just so mealy mouthed the way that people say something they know isn't true. It's a competitor.

[B]

So what evidence do you have that people want this? Do people want an AI version of Friends? Do they want an AI version of the Simpsons or will they not be able to tell?

[C]

I think we saw, you know, just with those few days when Sora 2 allowed you to make Rick and Morty or south park or the rest.

[B]

Have you seen the subreddits lately? They're like, dude, where's the. Where's the copyrighted materials? It sucks now.

[C]

Exactly. So people are desperate for it. And I think that's the thing is like consumers are telling you that they want this and they're saying, get in a room and make the deal and figure out how you can, how you can give me this and you make money from it. That's what they're asking for. And so I think, you know, they want it, so it's going to happen. And so they're probably going to use bootleg tools to do it. It's really, you know, you could say it's a Napster and Spotify moment and we're trying to position ourselves as a bit of a Spotify, that, like, this is a safer alternative. That's both radical of, like, the change is coming. You can't just kind of pretend it's not coming. But there is a safe way to do this where people get paid. Obviously, a lot of people feel Spotify meant that artists make less, but the transition was smoother than if it was, if all music was free, which would have been the complete end of the industry.

[B]

Right. And a lot of questions here, I think, still to be resolved. But directionally, I think this is the right way to go for the industry, which is, let's corral this technology, use it in a model that we think can ultimately be additive.

[C]

Yeah, I think that's right. And I think that, you know, the path that a lot of these AI companies have gone down is trying to disrupt the VFX industry. And actually they've raised more money. More money has been invested in disrupting the VFX industry than the size of the VFX industry, which I think says a reckoning is coming. That was not a good idea. It is not the right use of this technology. The right use of this technology is to embrace that it is not just a pencil. It can write itself and it is creative. It's not just a VFX tool and like a pipeline. And that's a huge upheaval, which I think is very disturbing, but also would have excited many of the great artists in history who would have thought, my God, a work of art. This model that can make works of art. That's fascinating. And I want to go deeper into that.

[B]

Well, and with all of the AI generated slop that is going to flood the Internet over the next few years, maybe this makes IP even more important. It's the great distinguisher. And when the world is flooded, this is the peak that escapes the flood. Known properties. And if you can control it and you can have your own version of it that feels premium and differentiated and not what your kid's sister is making in her own high school show that she's created and is AI casting avatar actors, this could be different and valuable.

[C]

That's exactly to your point about guardrails and what I was saying about respect. If you're very, very strict and say, no, this is the story world, I think that's actually going to be much better. And it won't feel like slop. It won't feel like, oh, anything's possible. I can get Yoda to fight with a character from Friends with Joey from Friends, which is just trashy and cheap. No, this is a really serious place for people who love this world and so everything that happens here is like meaningful on some level.

[B]

Well, I look forward to Craig being able to face off against Jacob and Edward for Bella's love in the Twilight AI version. That will be fantastic. Thank you very much for coming on the show.

[C]

Thank you.

[B]

We are back with the call sheet. Craig, have you seen these ratings numbers for the MLB baseball playoffs so far?

[D]

They're fantastic and they're better than last year, which was surprising because there were bigger markets involved last year.

[B]

It's crazy. The ratings so far are best in 15 years. And yeah, an average like marquee college football game will double the viewership. But like we're talking mid fours, almost 5 million viewers. And like it's kind of crazy that these games are not just high rated for the Yankees and Dodgers. This is like Mariners, Tigers in is getting a lot of viewership. What do you think's going on?

[D]

Well, I think one, it's an underrated story that Rob Manfred and the MLB has like really fixed baseball in the last few years. They've done a great job in the world where all these sports are falling behind the NFL, the MLB has done a really good job of just making the sport more enjoyable to watch and process.

[B]

It is much better. It's so much faster.

[D]

Yeah, the pitch count, the pitch clock thing, like a lot of it is really, really work. So you got to give it to them for that.

[B]

And I think there's some hangover from last year. Not hangover in a bad sense, but because last year with the Dodgers and Yankees in the World Series, I think that brought people in and they're like, oh yeah, the baseball playoffs are back and they're tuning in. And plus the Mariners have a star. This Cal Raleigh guy with his home run record, big dumper. I think that that is actually a draw for people, but it's kind of crazy. Like, so I'm not going to make a prediction about the World Series because the comparisons to last year with the Dodgers and the Yankees can't do that. Plus in baseball, if there's a game six, game seven, like the ratings go through the roof and it's hard to predict that. But I am going to say that the ratings for the championship series for both NL and AL will be up over last year and that's a big deal because the Yankees are not in it on the AL side.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

I mean it's Seattle and Toronto.

[B]

Yeah. So let's Just do some comparison here to last year, the ALCS which was the Yankees Guardians, that averaged 8.2 million on Fox and Fox deportees. Now that was up from previous seasons. The first game of this year's ALCS averaged 10 million viewers in the US and Canada. Now I think Canada is doing a lot there because you know, the Blue Jays being in this series probably motivates a lot of Canadians to watch, but that's already up. And then the NL side of the equation, last year it was the Mets Dodgers and that six game series averaged about 5.6 million viewers on Fox and FS1. So I think the games there were a lot of them were on FS1. So anytime you put it on cable, like it goes down. But I think this year is going to be way up.

[D]

So you think Dodgers brewers will be bigger than the Mets series last year, ratings wise?

[B]

I think it will be bigger if it goes to similarly six games. You know, if it's a four game sweep, no people will lose interest. But if it does go to six games and you still got the Dodgers stars in there, I think it'll beat that number.

[D]

You do?

[B]

Why?

[D]

I don't think, I don't think it'll be bigger than Mets Dodgers. Why would Brewers Dodgers be bigger?

[B]

I don't know. I'm just going off of the trends we're seeing. Maybe it's the out of home viewership, maybe it's the lingering audience from last year. Maybe it's the Dodgers as the new villains that everyone roots against. I don't know.

[D]

Well, I'm rooting against them.

[B]

I know you are and I don't, I don't appreciate that.

[D]

I would say that the ALCs will be bigger probably because of the one, the novelty of Seattle and then also the Toronto Canada aspect.

[B]

Yeah. And those games are on Fox, so those games get a broadcast network, whereas the NL games are on TBS cable.

[D]

Yeah, I mean the numbers are remarkable. The Mariners Game 5 is the highest since 2011.

[B]

I know, but that's 15 innings, that one. You know, anytime you can gather, I'd love to see how it built over the night because on the west coast we got back from dinner and we're like, oh my God, gotta tune in. Yeah, but we'll see, you know, if it goes four games, then the Dodgers win in four, which I hope happens. Not great for mlb. But if these series go to five, six, seven games, like we could see a significant win over last year. And that is my prediction. All right, that's the show for today, I want to thank my guest, Edward Saatchi, producer Craig Horbeck, art director Justin Lopez. I want to thank you. We'll see you next week.

[E]

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