Mailbag! 'Star Wars' and Soderbergh, the Best Home for Warner Bros., and Netflix vs. Theaters.

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Town with Matthew Belloni

Episode: Mailbag! 'Star Wars' and Soderbergh, the Best Home for Warner Bros., and Netflix vs. Theaters

Date: November 5, 2025
Host/Guests: Matthew Belloni (Host), Craig Hunter (Regular Contributor)

---

Episode Overview

This episode of The Town is a classic "town hall" mailbag format, with Matthew Belloni and Craig Hunter fielding questions on pressing Hollywood topics submitted by listeners. They cover a would-be Steven Soderbergh Star Wars project, speculate on the best buyer for Warner Bros., dissect Netflix’s ongoing tension with the theatrical model, discuss the uncertain fate of MTV’s The Challenge, and offer thoughts on HBO's new series I Love LA. The tone is conversational, incisive, and frequently laced with industry inside jokes and candid takes familiar to regular listeners.

---

1. The Steven Soderbergh 'Ben Solo' Star Wars Script

[02:04 – 07:40]

Key Points & Insights:

• Soderbergh developed a script with Adam Driver (centered on Ben Solo/Kylo Ren), and Lucasfilm president Kathleen Kennedy was initially enthusiastic.

• Disney leadership (Alan Bergman and Bob Iger) vetoed the project, mainly doubting audience interest in resurrecting Ben Solo and Adam Driver’s star power.

• Belloni emphasizes the dysfunction at Lucasfilm and Kennedy’s unpredictable green-lighting habits:

  "Kathy gets excited about lots of things... she wants something one day and then another thing the next week. She’s got one foot out the door. She’s leaving soon."
  (Richard Rushfield, 04:15)

• Disney wants big, commercial, "safe bet" Star Wars movies, not “economical, handmade, character-driven” projects (as Soderbergh/Driver described theirs).

• Belloni is resigned:

  “I have stopped. I’m sort of numb to the various ups and downs of the Star Wars development track. When there is an actual production happening in London, I then become interested. Until then, it’s all noise.”
  (Richard Rushfield, 07:20)

• Consensus: This project is dead for now, and creative risks at Lucasfilm are unlikely under current leadership.

---

2. Who Should Buy Warner Bros.? Netflix, Paramount, or a Split?

[07:51 – 15:23]

Key Points & Insights:

• Question: Which buyer—Netflix or Paramount—would the industry/talent community prefer for Warner Bros.?

• Richard sides with Paramount:

  “Netflix literally wants to shut down HBO and ingest the IP and make shows based on the IP and Warner Brothers would essentially go away. So that’s the nightmare scenario.”
  (Richard Rushfield, 08:34)

• A Netflix acquisition would take Warner Bros.' historic library out of licensing circulation, changing the ecosystem.

• Regulatory obstacles loom large for a Netflix/WB deal (would combine #1 and #4 streaming players).

• A joint buyout rumor involves Comcast and Netflix—Comcast gets HBO/channels, Netflix gets WB studio and IP. Complicated, with many entangled rights.

• If Netflix gets WB, theatrical releases could largely disappear:

  “If Netflix buys Warner Brothers studio, that is pretty much curtains for the Warner Brothers theatrical movies.”
  (Richard Rushfield, 13:20)

• Division of assets (like Game of Thrones IP) would likely be messy and unprecedented.

• Wearing his industry hat, Richard sees Paramount offers as less damaging to Hollywood’s ecosystem, but “the answer there is neither is what the talent community wants.”

---

3. Netflix vs. Theaters—Will There Be a Real Deal with AMC?

[17:50 – 23:06]

Key Points & Insights:

• Audience question: Will Netflix and AMC reach a distribution deal in 2026 with meaningful theatrical windows?

• Richard is emphatic:

  “Short answer, no again, not our model. Ted Sarandos put it on the wall. Theaters are not our model.”
  (Richard Rushfield, 18:00)

• More "stunt" releases and event screenings (e.g., Stranger Things finale, K-Pop Demon Hunters), but not genuine exclusive theatrical runs.

• Netflix waiting to put films in theaters after they’re hits on the service—more as “fan marketing” than revenue play.

• Only way Netflix changes? If a talent exodus forces their hand:

  “Unless the talent backlash becomes so big and they lose so many movie projects to rivals that they have to put their tail between their legs and say, okay, we will give an upper echelon of filmmakers 45 days in theaters…”
  (Richard Rushfield, 19:39)

• Greta Gerwig’s next movie (following Barbie) got a modest theatrical window as a “unique situation.”

• Netflix offers creative freedom and big checks to lure, but many top filmmakers still turn them down for lack of theatrical release.

• An example:

  “They were in on F1, the Joe Kosinski movie, and Apple got it because they guaranteed theaters.”
  (Richard Rushfield, 21:59)

• Netflix’s prestige filmmaker movies are often passion projects or less obviously commercial properties.

---

4. The Uncertain Future of MTV’s The Challenge

[24:08 – 27:23]

Key Points & Insights:

• With the cancellation of MTV’s Ridiculousness, concern now falls on the longevity of The Challenge amid cable’s decline.

• Richard’s personal lament:

  “I love the Challenge. I am a Gen Xer... I am very afraid for the Challenge right now.”
  (Richard Rushfield, 24:19)

• The Challenge remains safe for now, possibly because of original content requirements tied to cable carriage.

• Franchise attempts (global versions, CBS spin-off, etc.) may have diluted the brand.

• If The Challenge were on Netflix, both agree, “it would be Ginormous” (Craig Hunter, 26:37).

• The format still works, likened to a younger, hotter Survivor.

---

5. Quick Takes – HBO’s I Love LA Premiere

[27:23 – 31:06]

Key Points & Insights:

• At the I Love LA premiere, Richard and Craig discuss generational disconnect and what appeals about the show.

• Budget: Under $5M per episode, considered cheap for HBO/LA set.

• Format likened to “modern female Entourage” or Girls:

  “It’s got a very Girls style vibe to it. And you can do that for a lot cheaper.”
  (Richard Rushfield, 28:10)

• Both think the show will get a second season, praising the cast and performances, but noting it's “a bit of a smaller story.”

• Light banter over party food logistics closes the section, keeping the episode’s relaxed, inside-Hollywood tone.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Star Wars Development Dysfunction:
  “The whole place is dysfunctional... there's a reason they haven’t had a movie for six years.”
  (Richard Rushfield, 04:15 – 05:11)

• On Netflix's Strategy:
  “Theaters are not our model. Maybe they change their tune... but I don’t think they see it that way.”
  (Richard Rushfield, 13:45)

• On Prestige Projects at Netflix:
  “Netflix has worked with a lot of great filmmakers, but they're often doing great filmmaker with a project that isn’t as commercial as would have sold to a bigger studio... They'll get the Scorsese movie, but it’s got problems attached to it.”
  (Richard Rushfield, 22:35)

• On The Challenge and Cable's Demise:
  “The canary in the coal mine for the demise of the cable TV business was when every cable network started treating their programming like MTV treated Ridiculousness.”
  (Richard Rushfield, 25:03)

---

Important Timestamps

• 02:04 – Discussion of Steven Soderbergh’s Ben Solo Star Wars script and why Disney killed it.
• 07:51 – Debate over the best buyer for Warner Bros.: Netflix vs. Paramount.
• 13:20 – What a Netflix acquisition would mean for Warner Bros. theatrical movies.
• 17:50 – Will Netflix ever agree to a standard theatrical window with AMC?
• 21:59 – Examples of top director projects lost by Netflix due to lack of theatrical window.
• 24:08 – The fate of The Challenge in a post-cable world.
• 27:23 – Thoughts on HBO’s I Love LA, including generational appeal and behind-the-scenes stories.

---

Episode Tone & Closing Thoughts

The conversation combines sharp industry analysis, irreverent humor, and the distinct voice of insiders not afraid to critique power players in Hollywood. Richard exhibits both enthusiasm for the business and exasperation with its cycles, while Craig keeps things moving and brings in audience perspective. Their perspectives give outsiders a candid, nuanced update on the state of play in the entertainment industry, blending reporting with opinion and a dash of nostalgia.

---

This summary covers only the core content—ads, intros, and outros have been omitted for clarity and focus.

Transcript

[Richard Rushfield]

This episode of the Town is brought to you by Netflix. Presenting A House of Dynamite from Kathryn Bigelow, the Academy Award winning director of the Hurt Locker and Zero Dark Thirty. When a single unattributed missile is launched at the United States, a race begins to determine who is responsible and how to respond. Starring Idris Elba and Rebecca Ferguson. Now a New York Times critics pick. Deadline raves. It's one hell of a motion picture achievement. Now playing on Netflix for your awards consideration, this episode is brought to you by Wayfair. Your home is more than a space. It's where you express yourself. Like we've all got our movie night set up. I definitely do. I've got my chair, I've got my popcorn, I've got my nice drink area. Everything's set up perfectly. Whatever your vibe, Wayfair has every style for every home. They've got all your home essentials, storage solutions, decor and more all in one place. I recently got some great stuff from Wayfair. Ordered some nice outdoor furniture. We got a rug that looks nice with the fire pit. We've got some flower stuff goes all around the outdoor barbecue. Very cool. Lots of entertaining this summer. Wayfair. Big part of it. Get inspired with room ideas and easy to shop collections. All with everyday ways to save. Shop everything [e-mail] with free and easy delivery straight to your door. That's W-A-Y-F-A-I-R.com Wayfair Every Style, Every Home. It is Wednesday, November 5th. It's been a while since we've done a mailbag episode. A town hall as we call them. Craig this is the day. I'm a out of town this week. So we were recording in advance. We asked for some reader input, some questions on the twitter.com X and people delivered. They sent us some questions. I actually had a couple that I've been sitting around sitting in my computer waiting for just this moment.

[Craig Hunter]

Yeah, thanks to everybody who sent in their questions. I have a few from myself as well. So let's get right into it. The first question is actually from me because you haven't talked about this yet on the town and I want you to. As the keeper of secrets for Star wars, what is your take on the Steven Soderbergh hunt for Ben Solo Star wars situation?

[Richard Rushfield]

Good question. And I actually knew about this and I knew that they were frustrated in advance. I was not allowed to say anything.

[Craig Hunter]

So can you set the stage for people who don't know?

[Richard Rushfield]

Yeah. So this is a script that Steven Soderbergh was working on with Adam Driver, which tells the untold story of what happened to Ben Solo, who is Kylo Ren and who famously, spoiler alert, died in the Rise of Skywalker.

[Craig Hunter]

Right. What happened to him is that he died.

[Richard Rushfield]

He did die. So they wrote this whole script, and Kathy Kennedy at Lucasfilm was excited to do it, and they went down the road for a while. They did revisions and the whole thing. And it went up to the Disney powers that be, which are Alan Bergman at the film studio and Bob Iger, who runs the whole company. And they basically said, yeah, not really going to do that and said no to them. So Soderbergh and Adam Driver decided to go public, and Driver did an interview with the AP and basically, like, blamed the film studio for not doing the movie that they wanted to do. And I think they think that the fan backlash might impact the ability of this movie to happen. I don't think that's how studios work, especially when you're dealing with billion dollar franchises. They just didn't want to make the.

[Craig Hunter]

Movie on one side. Part of me is like, Bob Iger and Alan Bergman have a point, because their main complaint, according to Soderbergh and Driver, was that they didn't see how Ben Solo was alive, and that was that.

[Richard Rushfield]

And what was the big criticism of Rise of Skywalker?

[Craig Hunter]

Palpatine came back.

[Richard Rushfield]

Yeah. They brought back the emperor who was dead. So they're going to do that all over again. I mean, listen, Soderbergh's an amazing filmmaker. Like, I would love to see a Steven Soderbergh Star wars movie. I think Adam Driver, obviously awesome movie, not really a huge star at the box office, though. It's not like Ryan Gosling, who is also making a Star wars movie and is a big value add for the box office. When was the last time Steven Soderbergh had a mainstream box office hit like the Ocean's Movies, Magic Mike?

[Craig Hunter]

So you don't see this turning around in any way, because this was. Soderbergh did this under his own volition. This was not commissioned by Disney for him to write the script, correct?

[Richard Rushfield]

No, but Kathy knew about it. Kathy Kennedy at Lucasfilm knew about it, and she was very excited about it from everything I have heard. But Kathy gets excited about lots of things. She was excited about Benioff and Weiss, the Game of Thrones guys, doing a Star wars movie. She was excited about Taika Waititi doing one. She's been excited about this Daisy Ridley movie that we've talked about that has been around for three, four years now and is not officially greenlit. So she gets excited about a lot. And then they have debates at Lucasfilm and they have debates at the bigger film studio and they, you know, they haven't had a movie for six years. And there's a reason, like, the whole place is dysfunctional. And Kathy, from everything I've heard, Kathy often doesn't know what she wants or she wants something one day and then another thing the next week. So, you know, she's. She's also got one foot out the door. She's leaving soon. So it's not a surprise that Iger and Bergman would say no to this.

[Craig Hunter]

So you don't think there's anything else going on here other than Iger and Bergman truly thought logistically, the story just didn't make sense.

[Richard Rushfield]

I have not read the script, so I don't know that it may not even be a story or execution thing. It may just be a business decision. We don't believe there is audience appetite for a Ben solo movie. We don't believe Adam Driver is enough of a box office draw to make this worthwhile. We don't believe Steven Soderbergh is has a mainstream commercial bone in his body still, even though he has in the past, he's mostly been making smaller movies. He officially retired a few years ago too. So look at what they're doing. They're doing Mandalorian and Grogu with Jon Favreau. Boom. Biggest franchise they've had on Disney, turning it into a movie. It's a very safe bet. They're doing a Starfighter movie with Ryan Gosling starring and Shawn Levy directing. Like, okay, that makes sense. It's a big commercial play from a commercial filmmaker with a real star. They're not going to like, take a flyer on a Star wars movie, now, should they? Is that how you get interesting IP driven movies like Barbie and some of these other movies that have been interesting and higher quality? Maybe they got to take some risks.

[Craig Hunter]

Somewhere because they described or Soderbergh or Driver described the script. Of course, again, because they're trying to drum up, you know, outrage online, they called it. They said the script was economical, handmade and character driven in the spirit of Empire Strikes Back. So maybe it was a little bit smaller. They wanted to make it a little bit more affordable. But what I guess that's hard to do when you're nine Star wars in and they need to make something that's going to make a billion dollars and not something that feels Smaller.

[Richard Rushfield]

Yeah, well, it's not hard to do. They could do it if they wanted to do it, but that is not what Disney wants to do with Star Wars. They don't want to make Empire Strikes Back. They want to make the Force Awakens that has the callbacks and has the big moments and has something for everybody. And like, that's just. It's just not the business they're in. So I wish they were. I wish. I would love to see this movie. I hope maybe someday AI they'll do a deal with an AI company where they can make that movie.

[Craig Hunter]

Yeah, on Showrunner, you'll be able to do that. So as a fan, you weren't disappointed?

[Richard Rushfield]

No, I mean, listen, I have stopped. I'm sort of numb to the various ups and downs of the Star wars development track. When there is an actual production happening in London, I then become interested. Until then, it's all noise.

[Craig Hunter]

There are more leaks and rumors about Star wars than every other franchise combined.

[Richard Rushfield]

And Kathy doesn't help herself because she's so wishy washy on this stuff, but she's burned a lot of people. There's a lot of creatives around town that have been absolutely burned by Lucasfilm. So they talk. So let's move on. I'm already getting angry.

[Craig Hunter]

Okay. All right. This next question's from Mark. He asks between Netflix and Paramount, which is the more preferred outcome to buy Warner Brothers from the perspective of the talent community.

[Richard Rushfield]

Oh, God, Sophie's Choice there. I mean, that's an interesting one because it's more nuanced than that because Netflix is not interested in the channels business that Warner's has. They would have to be able to only buy the studios and streaming side, which is HBO and the Warner Brothers studio, Paramount, in their offers right now. They're willing to take on the channels. So that's a different thing, but from the talent's perspective, I mean, I think you gotta probably go with Paramount.

[Craig Hunter]

Oh, interesting. I was gonna say the opposite.

[Richard Rushfield]

No, see, at least Ellison is talking about keeping the studios separate. He's saying they'll both be Skydance corporations, but they'll. Warners will still release 15 movies a year. And, you know, the stats will be separate. There'll be some overlap, but not much. Netflix literally wants to shut down HBO and ingest the IP and make shows based on the ip and Warner Brothers would essentially go away. So that's the nightmare scenario, I think, which is also why regulatory problems would be bigger for Netflix. I mean, if you look at the landscape, the department of justice would have to approve this deal. And you're looking in the streaming space. Netflix is number one, and HBO Max is like, what, number four. So you would have the number one and number four in the market combining, which is a lot different than having the number four. And what is Paramount plus number five or number six in the market?

[Craig Hunter]

Yeah, but with. But with Paramount, you're. You're combining Paramount Studios and Warner Brothers Studios. You're eliminating an entire studio.

[Richard Rushfield]

Yeah, but Netflix is a studio. Netflix is a bigger studio than Paramount or Warner's at this point.

[Craig Hunter]

But not in terms of theaters.

[Richard Rushfield]

Oh, and not in terms of movie theaters. No, but in terms of money they spend. And, you know. Yeah, Warner's has that gigantic library. That's the other thing that the analyst Peter Supino made this point, which he's been on the show. He wrote. If Netflix buys Warner discovery, then almost 20% of the history of American filmmaking and a massive repository at HBO Premium Television leaves the licensing market forever. Meaning the library of this company just gets swallowed up by Netflix, which doesn't license out its titles to other people. So it just hoards all of them on one platform, which is. Is going to have a big, big impact on the market. Which is another reason why I think Netflix would have a regulatory problem here. So the answer there is neither is what the talent community wants, but I do think that they would prefer Paramount over Netflix if the offers were put next to each other.

[Craig Hunter]

So last week in your newsletter, you wrote about the possibility of Comcast and Netflix splitting Warner Brothers Discovery. This is what you wrote in your newsletter. The most tantalizing and weirdly persistent rumor has Comcast teaming with Netflix to jointly buy Warner Brothers Discovery, then carve it up into HBO and the cable networks for Comcast and then the studio and its IP for Netflix. So just generally, how would that work? So HBO and then all the cable channels, tnt, tbs, cnn, those all go to Comcast and Peacock, and then the Warner Brothers movie library and the Warner Brothers ip, like dc, Dune, all that stuff goes to Netflix.

[Richard Rushfield]

Yes. And there's big problems with that. Namely that Comcast has said that they're not really interested in more cable channels. They're currently in the middle of splitting off their cable channels into Versant. So maybe there would be some scenario where those cable channels would then go to Versant or elsewhere. Versant has also sort of indicated that they're not interested in more cable channels. So the problem with that scenario is I'm not sure where the cable channels go. But if you look at it. These two companies want different things out of Warner Discovery. Comcast needs to merge to grow larger in streaming. Peacock is 41 million customers only US, not a scaled business. They're looking at HBO Max and salivating over, you know, 150 million subs worldwide. A truly global business. And quality shows that really complement the sports assets that come from NBC Sports. So that together makes sense.

[Craig Hunter]

Totally.

[Richard Rushfield]

They don't necessarily need Warner Brothers and all of its movie projects and TV projects. They might want to have them, but they already have a studio. They have Universal Pictures, they have ip, they have parks, they have all this other stuff. And maybe it's more valuable to Netflix to have the studio go over there. They can use the IP to make movies and TV shows, shut down the theatrical distribution, or do it minimally and really get value out of that library, which they will forever have on Netflix so that it kind of makes sense. I don't know how they would work together on some kind of a deal. Netflix has hired bankers. Now they are looking at the assets. We believe that Comcast is looking at the assets. I am still not convinced that anyone is going to make a significant bid on this company except Paramount. We will see. There may be the Middle east buyer, there may be Amazon and these two.

[Craig Hunter]

Do you think this is, I guess this seems a little unlikely, maybe, but do you think this is the best case scenario, that Warner Brothers is split between Comcast and Netflix rather than Paramount gobbling up the entire thing?

[Richard Rushfield]

Well, if Netflix buys Warner Brothers studio, that is pretty much curtains for the Warner Brothers theatrical movies.

[Craig Hunter]

Is that right? You think it's totally implausible that if Netflix got acquired the Warner Brothers studio and the Warner Brothers library, that it's implausible that Ted Sarandos would allow the Warner Brothers studio to remain its own thing and release movies theatrically?

[Richard Rushfield]

Why would he do that? The whole point is that they become Netflix property. The library goes onto Netflix. They are able to mine the IP for new movies that will play on Netflix. It's not our model. Remember Craig, over and over, he says it's not our model. Theaters are not our model. Maybe they change their tune. Maybe they decide that there are five Warner Brothers movies every year that deserve movie theaters because they can make us $500 million and that's good business, and then everything else goes to Netflix. I don't think they see it that way. I think he sees the bigger the movie and the more likely it will do well in theaters, the bigger it will be on Netflix. So why don't we just put it on Netflix.

[Craig Hunter]

How would this even work? Like, if this split happened, if somebody wanted to make a Game of Thrones movie and with the Warner Brothers assets are split between. If HBO is owned by Comcast, but the Warner Brothers assets are owned by Netflix, who gets. Who gets access to Game of Thrones first or Harry Potter?

[Richard Rushfield]

They'd have to work that out. It depends where the HBO library goes. I would assume if HBO is acquired by Comcast, the HBO library would go to Comcast. And there's a lot of shows that are produced by Warner Brothers Television and air on hbo. Perhaps those would go to the studio and go to Netflix. But it's just like any other sale when rights are entangled up. You just have to work it out on every single title. I'm not saying it'll be easy. I think it would actually be really hard. I mean, we're not even talking about employees and different people who work on cross divisions. Like that would be a nightmare as well.

[Craig Hunter]

There's no precedent for this, right? A studio and streaming assets splitting up.

[Richard Rushfield]

Well, there was no such thing as streaming until 15 years ago.

[Craig Hunter]

I know. That's what I'm saying.

[Richard Rushfield]

So there are studios that have sold off their television divisions. There was a big TV production company in the 80s called Lorimar. Les Moonves actually worked there before he ran cbs and they sold to Warner Brothers. One of the reasons why Warner Brothers Television is the most successful of the vertically integrated TV studios is because it was largely formed by Lorimar and they just ran with it and Les Moonves ran it and they sold shows everywhere and produced Friends, ER and all the rest. Those TV studios can be very lucrative. I don't know of that many that have split their film and television stuff studios and sold them to different people. That's a little different. But remember, we're not talking about that. We're talking about a streaming business. People have sold off television networks over the years. I mean, USA has been owned by a bunch of different people. Various networks have changed hands. Freeform used to be ABC Family, which used to be Fox Family, that was owned by Fox. And there are instances of selling off different assets piecemeal like that. This would be a sort of supercharged version of that. This episode is brought to you by Starz's Outlander, Blood of My Blood, an epic tale of love, legacy and longing. Starring Hermione Corfield, Jeremy Irvine, Harriet Slater and Jamie Roy. Variety Rave's Blood of My Blood is lush, complex, beautifully shot and structured. And Los Angeles Times proclaims It's the ultimate period drama. Industry voters can access all episodes@starz fyc.com.

[Sponsor Voice]

This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business. Without Internet, you wouldn't be able to hear my beautiful voice right now and businesses wouldn't be able to stay connected the way they need. So what if I told you you can get free business Internet forever with Spectrum Business? Just add four mobile lines. Get business Internet, advanced WI fi and security shield for free for life. No contracts, no added fees. All you have to do to find out how you can get free Spectrum business Internet [e-mail] free for life. That's where you go. Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas.

[Craig Hunter]

All right, this next question is from Steve. He asks, do AMC and Netflix agree to a broad distribution agreement in 2026 and if so, what kind of exclusive window for theaters?

[Richard Rushfield]

Short answer, no again, not our model. Ted Sarandos put it on the wall. Theaters are not our model.

[Craig Hunter]

Now Demon Hunters are Demon Hunters as well.

[Richard Rushfield]

I'm talking it up. And there has been a thawing of those relations. AMC was not doing any business with Netflix and they have decided that they are going to play these movies like Demon Hunters in theaters that are stunts that can be distinguished from what the Netflix model is, which is to go day and date on the service with theaters. And they can't agree to that at AMC because it will piss off all of their other partners. But they can agree to do things like Taylor Swift, which is, you know, a unicorn that doesn't impact the others. They can't agree to K pop Demon Hunters because it's two months after it was on the service. So it's sort of a different thing. I think we're gonna see more of that, more stunts and more TV shows. They are putting the Stranger Things finale in theaters for a couple days around the new year. More of that. That can be distinguished from the existing partnerships they have with the studios. But I don't think Ted is gonna all of a sudden say, you know what, if it costs us more than $100 million, we're gonna give it a 45 day window on theaters. They're just not gonna do that.

[Craig Hunter]

Yeah. I was going to ask if you think Netflix will start to, I guess to get more specific than the word stunt. Like, do you think Netflix will start to reverse engineer theatrical releases like K Pop Demon Hunters more because it allows them to stick to their mantra of we don't do theaters. But then they could also basically, rather than them betting something will be a hit and Putting it in theaters. They wait until something is a hit and then release it theatrically a few months later to make some extra cash.

[Richard Rushfield]

Well, it's not just to make extra cash, it's to market. It's because it feels bigger, it feels important. It helps them create consciousness for people. When they get off their butt and go to a theater, they remember that more. And it's a fan marketing galvanizing event. And I do think they're gonna do more of that, but they have to have the theaters let them do it. And this, this kind of more open relations with amc, I think is going to help that. So the answer is no. Unless, of course, Ted has to. Unless the talent backlash becomes so big and they lose so many movie projects to rivals that they have to put their tail between their legs and say, okay, we will give an upper echelon of filmmakers 45 days in theaters or whatever Chris Nolan wants in order to get him.

[Craig Hunter]

I still think the Greta Gerwig thing is going to be a big deal. And that's going to come back to it.

[Richard Rushfield]

It'll get a lot of attention. But don't Forget, it's only two weeks in theaters. It's a 30 day window.

[Craig Hunter]

It could be more, right?

[Richard Rushfield]

It could be if it does well. But IMAX already has some bookings for mid December. It's Thanksgiving for two weeks on IMAX screens and then it is a month long window. So it will not appear on Netflix until Christmas.

[Craig Hunter]

Yeah, but this is Greta Gerwig's movie coming off Barbie. How are they going to attract other big filmmakers if they don't even give them what they gave Greta Gerwig?

[Richard Rushfield]

They give them 300 million subscribers worldwide. That's what they say. And they give them money and creative freedom. So, and I agree with you, I think that they lose tons of top filmmakers by not offering theaters, but they're sticking to it.

[Craig Hunter]

But they've already given an inch though.

[Richard Rushfield]

They haven't. They would say they haven't. They would say they are consistent and they are only doing these as stunts and they're only doing the Greta Gerwig thing as a, you know, she has a relationship with imax. And the project came in and they were developing it before she made Barbie. So it was a unique situation. That's how they say it. They are able to, with a straight face, tell someone like Steven Spielberg, we would love to make your movie and pay you way more than you would currently make at another studio, but we are not giving you theaters. And he says, thanks, but no thanks.

[Craig Hunter]

Have you heard about that happening where they offered that to giant directors who.

[Richard Rushfield]

Say no, they were in on F1, the Joe Kaczynski movie, and Apple got it because they guaranteed theaters.

[Craig Hunter]

Sure. And I guess Kaczynski was, was proven. He had Top Gun, Maverick, he was.

[Richard Rushfield]

Coming off Top Gun, he had Brad Pitt and he had the participation of F1, one of the biggest brands. But if you think about it, why is F1 so big? It's on Netflix. So Netflix should have had that movie and it would have been gigantic on Netflix. But they wanted theaters and they were rewarded by 700 million worldwide.

[Craig Hunter]

And I guess Netflix did get a Martin Scorsese film. Did they release that in theaters? The Irishman?

[Richard Rushfield]

There was a whole debate about that. They tried to release it to get.

[Craig Hunter]

It nominated for an Oscar.

[Richard Rushfield]

Yeah. But I'm not talking about limited token releases. I'm talking about wide releases with an exclusive theatrical window. That was the whole fight that they had with AMC that led to this problem in the first place is that at the time AMC wanted a 90 day window, Netflix did not wanted it less and that talks broke down. But remember, the Irishman was three and a half hours, super expensive, required de aging technology that wasn't great. Like that was not the hottest prospect so far. Netflix has worked with a lot of great filmmakers, but they're often doing great filmmaker with project that isn't as commercial as would have sold to a bigger studio. So they'll get the Scorsese movie, but it's got problems attached to it. They'll get a Guillermo del Toro movie, but it's his passion project that he really has wanted to make forever. And it's a three hour Frankenstein movie. They'll get, you know, things like working with Noah Baumbach, who's an amazing filmmaker but makes very idiosyncratic movies that have never been big at the box office. Those are the kinds of big quote unquote filmmakers that they are working with. They'll get Zack Snyder, but they get Zack Snyder doing his version of Star wars that everybody else laughed at.

[Craig Hunter]

Netflix is getting the Once Upon a Time in Hollywood sequel spinoffs.

[Richard Rushfield]

Perfect example. Like okay, they're getting that movie. Is that like hot commodity if Tarantino is not directing it?

[Craig Hunter]

It's David Fincher.

[Richard Rushfield]

It is David Fincher. So good for them. But that's not a guarantee.

[Craig Hunter]

This next question is from Scott. He asks, what are your thoughts on whether the challenge will live through the Skydance, Paramount regime change and likely fall of mtv?

[Richard Rushfield]

Very good question. I love the Challenge. I am a Gen Xer. I love the real world. I love the Challenge. I am very afraid for the Challenge right now. And the reason is Ridiculousness was just canceled. I mean, if you look at. Ridiculousness was on for 14 years, 48 seasons, 1700 episodes. It was really the only original show on MTV except for the Challenge and like some Jersey Shore stuff and like.

[Craig Hunter]

Okay, but calling Ridiculousness an original show is. Is a stretch. It's essentially a TikTok feed. It's just clips. It's America's Funniest home videos in 2025.

[Richard Rushfield]

But the Canary in the coal mine for the demise of the cable TV business was when every cable network started treating their programming like MTV treated Ridiculousness. They canceled everything and said, you know what? We just have to do the bare minimum that is required by our carriage agreements. We have to have the bare minimum of original content. And we will note that the ratings for Ridiculousness aren't that different from a whole slate of original shows. So we'll just run Ridiculousness all the time. And the fact that they are now canceling it shows that the cable TV business is even worse than it was when they just gave up on it.

[Craig Hunter]

There's a lot of bars across America are going to have to figure out what to put on their TV now that Ridiculousness is canceled.

[Richard Rushfield]

I know. Well, now they have enough shows where they could just do reruns probably forever. But I don't know if that would count on their original content requirements. That's the only thing saving the Challenge is that if they have to have certain amount of shows that are original each year, maybe the Challenge survives. But, you know, under Chris McCarthy, they tried to franchise the Challenge. They did a CBS version. They did All Stars, they did Global. They kind of ruined the brand because it used to be each season was special. I know zero people care about this except for me, but I hope the Challenge will survive. I'm just. I'm a little nervous.

[Craig Hunter]

Does the Challenge still do well in the ratings at all?

[Richard Rushfield]

It does fine. Yeah, it does fine. It's. It's done fine enough to stay in existence.

[Craig Hunter]

And the format's good. The format holds up.

[Richard Rushfield]

It's just Survivor. It's Survivor. Survivor with young hot people who hook up. Yeah.

[Craig Hunter]

If the Challenge is on Netflix right now, it would be Ginormous.

[Richard Rushfield]

Probably is. They probably have some old seasons. Paramount plus does. That was the other thing. Is they. Because of the carriage agreements, they kept it on live. So you would have to. Like during the pandemic, I had to Watch the Challenge live on mtv and then it would. Only it wouldn't go to Paramount plus until the season was over. Very, very problematic. I think they've changed that, but I'm not sure.

[Craig Hunter]

We had a podcast about the challenge with Bill and Dave Jacoby that I produced tonight.

[Richard Rushfield]

You don't need to tell me, I was listening.

[Craig Hunter]

Yes, I watched the first season of the Challenge I've ever watched and I did enjoy it.

[Richard Rushfield]

Yeah, it's fun. Yeah, it's good. And if you know CT and Wes and Camilla and all of them for 20 years now, it's more fun.

[Craig Hunter]

And Theo Vaughn, right? Wasn't he on the Challenge?

[Richard Rushfield]

Yes, Theo was on. He was not Theo Vaughn back then. He was just Theo. But yeah, he's just Theo.

[Craig Hunter]

All right, the last question here is a bit of a hybrid with the call sheet. We went to the I Love LA premiere last night where I have never.

[Richard Rushfield]

Felt older in my life. I might as well have had a cane and a wheelchair.

[Craig Hunter]

I was pointing out influencers to you left and right.

[Richard Rushfield]

It was embarrassing. I didn't know who anyone was. You had to point out these people. And even then I was like, okay, like what? Like what is that? Some of the show was like the Charlie Brown speaker, the teacher, just like womp, womp, womp for me.

[Craig Hunter]

So this show, I think kind of the pitch of the show is that it's kind of the modern female Entourage. How much do you think this show cost? Because I think Entourage was a little expensive. They were doing a lot of stuff. Entourage was a big kind of showy, grand show. Big parties, movie premieres. They had to build stuff like that. I love. LA's gotta be much cheaper, right?

[Richard Rushfield]

It is, actually. My sourcing says it costs a little under 5 million per episode, which is pretty cheap for a show that shoots in LA and is hbo. And you know, it's not a known cast, but they've got some real actors on it. And that is in contrast to these dramas that can cost 10, 15, even 20 million an episode. I think that's like been the HBO series. Sweet spot is they do these big shows that cost a lot and get a lot of attention, but then they also slip in these like Eastbound and Down and they're doing Chair Company now and they're doing I Live la, which I actually did enjoy. I thought especially the pilot's very funny. I think Rachel Sennett is very funny. And I half joking because I felt old. But like it is, it's got a very girls style vibe to it. And you can do that for a lot cheaper.

[Craig Hunter]

Yeah, I liked it. I enjoyed the world because I kind of live in it in that show. But I do wonder a little bit how universal appealing it is. But I like the cast, I like the performances.

[Richard Rushfield]

Speaking of universally appealing, how are we feeling about the food that was at the after party?

[Craig Hunter]

You love talking about the food.

[Richard Rushfield]

I enjoyed it was at Barmamont. They had some nice pasta, little bowl of pasta that I enjoyed. They had a little steak crostini thing.

[Craig Hunter]

Yes. However, you can't serve food that requires.

[Richard Rushfield]

Two hands, in my opinion. Oh, you're anti food with two hands?

[Craig Hunter]

You need a drink in your hand so you don't feel awkward standing in a crowd of people. And if you have a drink in your hand, you need finger foods.

[Richard Rushfield]

Okay, so you were into the bacon wrapped dates a little bit more.

[Craig Hunter]

Sure. It needs to be one bite. Finger food, in my humble opinion.

[Richard Rushfield]

Okay. See, I put down my drink onto the little stand that I was standing above, and then I grabbed the pasta, shoved it all in my face, and then swapped the drink for the plate.

[Craig Hunter]

That's a lot of work. That's a lot of work.

[Richard Rushfield]

But you know what? Like, you want a little bit more than just bacon wrapped dates. Right? Like, I was hungry, I guess.

[Craig Hunter]

I. I think as the, the furthest you could go is like a, a slider. That's a two biter, but you can hold with one hand.

[Richard Rushfield]

That's easy. Okay. All right. Well, when you are in charge of the food at the HBO parties, then you can do everything you want to do.

[Craig Hunter]

I thought they were going to present a lot of the foods that were in the show. Courage, bagels, Erewhon, things like that.

[Richard Rushfield]

Oh, that would have been nice. Yeah, usually they do that, but if.

[Craig Hunter]

They used Air 1, then it would have been 6 million an episode.

[Richard Rushfield]

Erewhon's too expensive for the new HBO.

[Craig Hunter]

The little Air 1 smoothies, we had those ones at Spotify. That was a big day for a.

[Richard Rushfield]

Yes, exactly. No. $20 a pop for the Hailey Bieber smoothie. It can't afford that.

[Craig Hunter]

No.

[Richard Rushfield]

All right, are we done with questions?

[Craig Hunter]

Do you want to give a prediction off of I love la?

[Richard Rushfield]

I think it'll do fine.

[Craig Hunter]

Second season.

[Richard Rushfield]

Yes, second season. I think so too.

[Craig Hunter]

I think so too. It's only eight episodes.

[Richard Rushfield]

They did eight episodes. The buzz has been okay. The critics, like, the older critics are like, oh, what are these? You know, what is this? It's not smart enough. But I think the target audience will like this show and I think they will renew it.

[Craig Hunter]

The performances are good. It's just a bit of a smaller story. I don't think Entourage is a good comp, but I'm curious to see what they do with it.

[Richard Rushfield]

Yeah, exactly. I'll watch all eight, and then I'll be back for season two. All right, that's the show for today. I want to thank my guests. Me? I'm the guest, Right? Craig, you're the guest.

[Craig Hunter]

No, yeah. Thank yourself.

[Richard Rushfield]

You're the guest. You're the guest and the producer. Jesse's our editor, and I'll be back next week.