The Town with Matthew Belloni: Marvel’s Decline, Hollywood Vs. AI, and the Most Under-Covered Stories of 2025 So Far

Released on June 23, 2025

In the latest episode of The Town with Matthew Belloni, host Matt Belloni teams up with Lucas Shaw from Bloomberg to delve into the undercovered stories shaping Hollywood in 2025. Moving beyond the mainstream narratives, Belloni and Shaw explore critical industry developments that deserve more attention. This detailed summary captures their insightful discussions, complete with notable quotes and timestamps for reference.

1. Disney and Universal's Lawsuit Against Midjourney: Hollywood vs. AI

One of the central topics of the episode is the significant lawsuit filed by Disney and Universal against Midjourney, an AI company. Belloni emphasizes the lawsuit's profound implications for the future of the entertainment industry.

Matt Belloni [03:29]: "The undercovered story of the year so far is the Disney and Universal lawsuit against Midjourney, the AI company. It is the most important thing that has happened for the future of the industry."

Belloni discusses how generative AI companies are pushing for court rulings that permit the use of copyrighted materials to create derivative works. He praises Disney and Universal for their aggressive stance, contrasting their approach with Warner Brothers' decision not to join the lawsuit.

Matt Belloni [04:18]: "Universal and Disney are the two most well-capitalized strongest of the traditional studios. They are not conflicted like Amazon and Netflix and some of these other tech companies. And the MPAA I don't think can be trusted on this matter because of the membership."

Shaw adds that Disney's collaboration with Comcast and Universal showcases a united front against AI overreach, highlighting the legal complexities surrounding fair use in AI-generated content.

2. The TikTok Ban: An Underspoken Issue

Belloni and Shaw shift focus to the political sphere, discussing the TikTok ban that has largely been ignored in media conversations. Despite Congress passing a law to ban the app and the Supreme Court upholding it, the President has failed to enforce the ban, leading to ongoing extensions.

Lucas Shaw [07:02]: "Congress passed a law banning the app. The Supreme Court said that the law was totally fine, and the President just ignored it."

The conversation touches on Trump's motivations, suggesting the ban is politically unpopular and that his administration seeks alternative models for controlling the app, potentially referencing the takeover of US Steel as a precedent.

Matt Belloni [07:43]: "Maybe Frank McCourt, our favorite former Dodger owner, will buy TikTok. Maybe we can get a deal at parking at Dodger Stadium if we are TikTok members."

3. The Decline of Marvel Studios and Superhero Fatigue

The discussion moves to Marvel Studios, where Belloni highlights the underperformance of recent blockbusters like Captain Brave New World and Thunderbolts. Both films hovered around the $400 million mark, significantly below previous Marvel hits.

Matt Belloni [08:22]: "If the new normal for Marvel movies is in this 400 to $500 million range, that is gonna have repercussions throughout the industry."

Shaw concurs, noting the shift in box office dynamics where even strong reviews and fan support aren't translating into expected grosses. They explore the broader impact on Disney and the theater industry, which has heavily relied on Marvel's success to sustain theater revenues.

Lucas Shaw [08:28]: "You'd like 700, 800 million was sort of the entry point for a lot of these Marvel movies, and now they're struggling to top 400."

4. The Rise of Chinese Cinema: Ney Zha 2 Takes the Lead

One of the standout undercovered stories is the unprecedented success of the Chinese film Ney Zha 2, which grossed over $2 billion domestically. Belloni and Shaw discuss the implications of this achievement for the global film market.

Lucas Shaw [11:07]: "A Chinese movie grossed more than $2 billion. It stayed near the top of the charts for literally months."

They analyze how the dominance of domestic films in China poses challenges for US movies, especially as other countries may follow suit with their own high-performing original content. The conversation underscores rising nationalism and its potential threat to the US movie industry's international success.

Lucas Shaw [11:23]: "China continues to be a challenging market for US movies. They now have these originals that do better than the US movies there."

5. Jack Black: An Underrated Star Powerhouse

Another undercovered story highlighted is the rising star power of Jack Black. Belloni argues that Black's consistent performances are a significant driving force behind successful family-oriented films, yet he remains overshadowed by Hollywood's more celebrated actors.

Matt Belloni [13:06]: "It is undeniable now that he is a major movie star. Never gets talked about in the same terms as Leo or Brad Pitt or any of those guys."

Shaw challenges this view, suggesting that while Black is influential, attributing blockbuster success solely to him may overstate his impact. Nonetheless, Belloni maintains that Jack Black deserves more recognition for his contributions to family-friendly cinema.

Matt Belloni [14:01]: "I think Jack Black is the quintessential value add. He is the quintessential value add."

6. The Flop of Electric State: Russo Brothers' Misstep

The episode also covers the disappointing release of Electric State, an expensive project by the Russo brothers. Despite significant marketing efforts, the film failed to make a cultural impact or recoup its investment.

Matt Belloni [17:20]: "This incredibly expensive movie set up at one studio... it was just a thud."

Shaw criticizes the choice of project, pointing out the lack of a strong franchise or established IP to support its success. The conversation highlights the Russo brothers' ongoing struggles outside the Marvel universe, despite their previous successes.

7. The Resurgence of PG Movies: Targeting the Family Market

Belloni and Shaw observe a noticeable trend towards PG-rated movies, which have proven to be highly successful by explicitly targeting family audiences. This shift contrasts with the previous focus on PG-13 ratings aiming to attract both adults and teens.

Matt Belloni [20:00]: "There was this whole shift towards trying to get Everybody with the PG13 rating. And now it's like, it's okay, we can go PG, we can just appeal to families and we can still make $900 million."

Shaw notes that the most successful films of the year have been children’s movies, emphasizing the profitability of family-oriented content.

Lucas Shaw [21:18]: "I agree it is notable that all the most successful movies this year are for kids."

8. Spotify's Market Valuation Surpasses Major Media Giants

An unexpected undercovered story is Spotify's soaring market valuation, now surpassing that of Comcast and other major media companies. Despite Spotify's significant influence in the media landscape, it hasn't received commensurate media attention.

Lucas Shaw [22:21]: "Spotify is now worth more than Comcast and every media company that isn't Disney and Netflix. People haven't really paid attention to that."

Belloni humorously notes that while some may overlook this milestone, insiders like their producer Craig Horbeck are keenly aware of Spotify's burgeoning value.

9. Maverick Carter’s Challenge to the NBA

The conversation touches on Maverick Carter's ambitious attempts to compete with the NBA by establishing a rival league. Although faced with significant obstacles, including corporate mergers and NBA resistance, Carter continues to push forward without formally withdrawing his efforts.

Lucas Shaw [22:55]: "I'm not saying it's overvalued sell Spotify?"

Lucas Shaw [22:55]: "Another one I'd say is I feel like the whole Maverick Carter is competing with the NBA got kind of undercovered."

10. The Lingering Impact of the LA Fires on Hollywood

Finally, Belloni and Shaw address the long-term effects of the LA fires, which have had profound implications for the entertainment industry. From disrupted productions and displaced workers to ongoing struggles in rebuilding efforts, the fires continue to cast a shadow over Hollywood's operational stability.

Matt Belloni [23:23]: "The repercussions of this story have played out in a number of ways... it has pretty big implications for the broader entertainment industry."

Shaw muses on the dual nature of the fires as both a human tragedy and an industry challenge, questioning whether the fallout has fundamentally altered the mechanics of Hollywood or primarily affected its workforce and infrastructure.

Lucas Shaw [25:00]: "It's not back to normal, certainly. And this is the more dangerous point where... you're starting to see all the real estate speculators, like, come in and buy the land because people have woken up to realize, like, oh, I'm gonna have to wait several years before I can do anything."

Conclusion

In this episode of The Town with Matthew Belloni, the conversation with Lucas Shaw sheds light on several pivotal yet underreported stories in Hollywood. From the legal battles surrounding AI and copyright to shifting market dynamics favoring family-oriented PG movies, and from the surprising rise of Spotify to the sustained impact of environmental disasters like the LA fires, Belloni and Shaw provide a comprehensive analysis of the forces reshaping the entertainment industry in 2025. Their discussions underscore the importance of looking beyond mainstream headlines to understand the nuanced developments affecting Hollywood’s present and future.

Notable Quotes:

• Matt Belloni [03:32]: "This is real AI is here. These generative AI companies absolutely want court rulings that will allow them to use whatever they want and create their own images based on the copyrighted materials."

• Lucas Shaw [07:02]: "Congress passed a law banning the app. The Supreme Court said that the law was totally fine, and the President just ignored it."

• Matt Belloni [08:22]: "If the new normal for Marvel movies is in this 400 to $500 million range, that is gonna have repercussions throughout the industry."

• Lucas Shaw [11:07]: "A Chinese movie grossed more than $2 billion. It stayed near the top of the charts for literally months."

• Matt Belloni [13:06]: "It is undeniable now that he is a major movie star. Never gets talked about in the same terms as Leo or Brad Pitt or any of those guys."

• Matt Belloni [17:20]: "This incredibly expensive movie set up at one studio... it was just a thud."

• Matt Belloni [20:00]: "There was this whole shift towards trying to get Everybody with the PG13 rating. And now it's like, it's okay, we can go PG, we can just appeal to families and we can still make $900 million."

• Lucas Shaw [22:21]: "Spotify is now worth more than Comcast and every media company that isn't Disney and Netflix. People haven't really paid attention to that."

• Matt Belloni [23:23]: "The repercussions of this story have played out in a number of ways... it has pretty big implications for the broader entertainment industry."

This comprehensive summary encapsulates the insightful dialogue between Belloni and Shaw, highlighting the critical yet underreported stories influencing Hollywood's trajectory in 2025.