Part 2: What Ari Emanuel Talks About With Trump and the Rock

Summary

Podcast Summary: "The Town with Matthew Belloni"

Episode: Part 2: What Ari Emanuel Talks About With Trump and the Rock
Date: October 10, 2025
Guests: Ari Emanuel (WME/Endeavor CEO), Mark Shapiro (President, Endeavor)
Host: Matthew Belloni

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Main Theme

This episode continues Matt Belloni’s in-depth conversation with Ari Emanuel and Mark Shapiro, two of Hollywood and sports’ most powerful dealmakers. The discussion zeroes in on sports rights, the shifting entertainment landscape, streamers versus legacy media, and high-level Hollywood power moves—including conversations with Donald Trump and Dwayne “The Rock” Johnson. The latter half features a lightning round with candid, sometimes spicy takes on industry figures and issues.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Ceiling on Sports Media Rights (02:00–08:00)

• Ongoing Rights Inflation: Despite constant speculation about a peak, Ari notes the value of content rights (movies, TV, sports) has continued to rise over three decades—driven by platforms’ hunger for premium product to drive subscriptions.
• Baseball/Regional Model: Shapiro predicts “the middle is going to get cut out,” with top-tier rights (NFL, NBA) surging while middling properties take a “haircut.”
• New Strategies: The NBA’s approach—splitting rights across linear and digital outlets—is seen as a test for future deals.
• The NFL’s Unique Power: Belloni asks if its rights could double; Emanuel and Shapiro say the NFL won't compromise brand for short-term money.

Quote:
“They have always said… it's got to stop at some point. Now, you would assume that's the right answer. However, I would say to you, for the 30+ years I've been in the business... the value of rights... has always gone up.” —Ari Emanuel [03:23]

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2. Impact on Broader Entertainment Ecosystem (07:00–10:30)

• Ripple Effects: Ballooning sports rights are crowding out investment in other types of content.
• Fairness in Deals: Emanuel shares a formative anecdote—industry determines what's “fair” through negotiation, not sentimentality.

Quote:
“Fair is where we end up. They're only going to pay what is fair to them and is fair to the NFL.” —Ari Emanuel recalling Art Stolnitz [07:18]

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3. David Ellison—Building a Tech-Forward Hollywood Powerhouse (08:00–10:50)

• Enthusiasm for Ellison: Ari praises the Skydance boss for hiring top tech talent and restructuring operations; also compliments Barry Weiss for her objective-driven news angle.
• Industry Consolidation: Diverging takes on studio mergers—Ari is optimistic but acknowledges uncertainty for traditional studio output post-merger.

Quote:
“He's doing a very good job and... is changing the landscape of that place. And will he go after and get Warner's or whatever? I think it would be great for the business if we had a bigger player.” —Ari Emanuel [09:24]

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4. The UFC/Endeavor Rights Auction (11:00–13:30)

• Auction Strategy: Emanuel and Shapiro describe a months-long process courting multiple streaming and broadcast partners. Netflix was “very, very” close, but traditional networks wanted more events, not just highlights or tentpoles.
• Package Deals: A consensus formed around CBS wanting the entire package. Netflix sought only premium events, which led to a split in discussions.
• Relationship Management: Ari calls Netflix’s Ted Sarandos and Bela Bajaria “incredible executives,” maintaining warmth despite the business outcome.

Quote:
“We met with everybody. We had presentations back and forth over months. People then came forward and… we started and got multiple conversations.” —Ari Emanuel [11:45]

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5. Motivation, Wealth, and Work Ethic (14:13–14:50)

• Money vs. Passion: Belloni pushes Emanuel on what keeps him going; Emanuel says passion for deal-making and representing talent, not just money.

Quote:
“I still love what I do every day. I love it. I get up. You're addicted to it every day.” —Ari Emanuel [14:21]

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6. The Lightning Round—Candid Industry Takes (15:00–20:00)

Biggest Star in the World (15:28)

• Film: Leo DiCaprio, Robert Downey Jr., Brad Pitt, Dwayne Johnson.
• Streaming: Mark Wahlberg (“on the movie side, not even close”).
• Note: Taylor Swift mentioned—debate on her film star status.

Hollywood’s Blind Spots (16:08)

• Ari dodges, hints at issues with older leadership running agencies: “There’re certain people in their 60s that shouldn’t be running certain things.”

CAA’s Brian Lord (16:37)

• Emanuel provides the pointed single-word answer: “Duplicity.”

Power Callbacks (17:07)

• Given Elon Musk, Dwayne Johnson, and Dana White, he calls back Dana White first—critical to their shared business (TKO).

Sneaky Rich in Hollywood (17:40)

• Emanuel won’t speculate, says it’s hard to know non-actor net worths.

Top-Earning Clients (18:00)

• Declines to name WME’s biggest money-generators, citing client privacy.

Bob Iger’s Return (18:31)

• Both note respect for Iger. Shapiro says, “If he didn’t want to be here, he wouldn’t be here, period.”

Disney Parks Price Hikes (19:11)

• Shapiro: Astounded at the price increases; Emanuel warns about overreaching and pricing out the middle class.

Advice for Young Outsiders (19:59)

• Both endorse a Hollywood career for passionate youth, but Belloni notes “the money will never be what it was.”

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7. Personal Philosophy & Future Plans (20:52–21:57)

• No Grand Exit Scheme: Emanuel claims he’s not driven by an “ultimate goal” like selling or IPO-ing; cites enjoying the work as the core reason for persistence.
• Work-Life Blend: Shapiro describes Emanuel as inseparable from his work, even working from vacation or the golf course.

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8. Brokerage with Trump and the "Nobel Peace Prize" Conversation (21:48–23:13)

• Facilitating Power Meetings: Ari set up the encounter between Trump and Ellison, which culminated in a major deal.
• Latest Chat with Trump: Emanuel recounts telling Trump, “If you can actually get this peace deal done, you deserve a Nobel Peace Prize,” referring to Middle East negotiations.
• Political Optimism: Ari believes Trump’s regional coalition is unprecedented; if peace is realized, he’s earned accolades.

Memorable Moment/Quote:
“I said to him, if you can actually get this peace deal done, you actually do deserve a Nobel Peace Prize… this conflict has been going on for 3,000 years, and if you can actually get it done... you deserve it.” —Ari Emanuel [22:10]

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Notable Quotes

• On Rights Value:
  “The value of those rights are going up because people need great product for their platforms to drive subs.” —Ari Emanuel [04:06]

• On Industry Fairness:
  “Fair is where we end up.” —Ari Emanuel (recounting Art Stolnitz) [07:18]

• On Consolidation:
  “We might. Only time is going to tell if I’m right or you’re right.” —Ari Emanuel on studio mergers [10:11]

• On Career Motivation:
  “I still love what I do every day… I love representing people. I love talking about projects… In the global environment of entertainment and content, they play off each other constantly.” —Ari Emanuel [14:21, 14:47]

• On CAA Rivalry:
  “Duplicity.” —Ari Emanuel (re: Brian Lord) [16:47]

• On Politics:
  “If you can actually get this peace deal done, you deserve a Nobel Peace Prize.” —Ari Emanuel (to Trump) [22:10]

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Summary Table of Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment | |--------------|---------------------------------------------| | 02:00–08:00 | Sports rights ceiling and media transitions | | 08:00–10:50 | Ellison, tech, and Hollywood consolidation | | 11:00–13:30 | UFC dealmaking and Netflix talks | | 14:13–14:50 | Money vs. motivation | | 15:00–20:00 | Lightning round (stars, rivals, callers) | | 21:48–23:13 | Trump, Nobel, and Middle East peace |

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Memorable Moments

• Ari joking about only answering questions his way, not like an “earnings call.” [08:13]
• His lightning round swipe at CAA’s Brian Lord: “Duplicity.” [16:47]
• Reflection on the absurd wellness trends in his life (“The list of shit I’m doing is. Has gotten so long, it’s crazy. That’s a whole different podcast.”) [14:54]
• The Trump phone call and his blunt Nobel pitch. [22:10]
• Mark Shapiro: “Work is intertwined in Ari’s life, right? I mean, I know he’s on the phone all the time, and he loves doing it.” [21:33]

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Takeaway

This episode is a candid, rapid-fire look at the power dynamics of modern Hollywood and sports, through the boisterous personalities of Ari Emanuel and Mark Shapiro. From streaming wars and mega-rights deals to the psychology of dealmaking and memorable phone calls with presidents and megastars, this is a crash course in how the entertainment business really gets done—full of bravado, insight, and sharp industry gossip.

Transcript

[A]

What's up? It's Todd McShay, host of the McShay show at the Ringer and Spotify. We're building this thing up and I couldn't be more excited to be back talking college football and everything. NFL draft with the most informed audience out there. That's you, my co host Steve mentioned. I will be with you three times a week throughout the football season with all the latest news, analysis and scouting intel from around the league. For even more insight, see. Subscribe to my newsletter the McShay Report to access my mock drafts, big boards, tape breakdowns and other exclusive scouting content you can't get anywhere else. It's going to be a great season and I hope you'll be with us at the McShay show every step of the way.

[B]

This episode of the Town is presented by FX's the Lowdown, proclaimed a gloriously off kilter noir by Rolling Stone. The series follows Lee Raybon, a citizen, journalist and self proclaimed truthsorian, as he exposes corruption and unearths the city's hidden rot from acclaimed Reservation Dogs creator Sterling Harjo and starring four time Academy Award nominee Ethan Hawke. TV Guide raves the Lowdown is easily one of the best new shows of the year. The Lowdown premieres September 23rd on FX, streaming next day on Hulu.

[C]

This episode is brought to you by Scene on the Screen, a podcast presented by Make It Universal and Rotten Tomatoes. Join me Jacqueline Coley, as I meet the filmmakers, actors and industry insiders influencing entertainment. Each episode is an intimate, fun conversation about the impact of film as guests share their journeys, inspirations and answer trivia about the movies that shape them. Scene on the Screen is available now. To listen, simply search Scene seen on the Screen Wherever you listen to podcasts.

[B]

It is Friday, October 10th. Yesterday we had part one of Ari Emanuel and Mark Shapiro, who are partnering on a new events company and also got into tons of topics, everything from sports rights to the future of the agency business to what they talk about, what Ari talks about with Donald Trump. So we decided to split it into two episodes. Part two is today. Yes, the Trump stuff, plus the lightning round where I fire some fast questions at Ari and he tells me to go screw myself. He actually didn't. I think he controlled himself a little bit on this episode, but it's very fun. No call sheet today. It's part two of Ari Emanuel and Marc Shapiro from the Ringer and Puck. I'm Matt Bellany and this is the Town. Where's the ceiling on sports rights forever increasing Is Are we headed for a top? Is MLB going to have to take a haircut? Like, where are we in that?

[D]

Yes. Baseball's taking a cut, right. And then the regional model, in terms of the rights that they sell to espn, which is in short order, that will camouflage some of it. But it's the middle that's going to get cut out. I'm not saying baseball is the middle. It's obviously a premier sport, a premium sport as well. But the middle is going to get cut out because the NFL is going to open their deal, if not sooner than 29, and. And they're going to get big increases and the NBA's got their $76 billion deal.

[B]

But there's got to be a ceiling. There's got to be a ceiling on.

[D]

I already said that all along. And team valuations. How about that, too?

[E]

Can I say something?

[B]

We'll never see any higher, Ari, go ahead.

[E]

Okay, so when we started the agency, on my birthday, March 29, 1995, everybody said, Packaging's over and dramas are over, right? And eventually they kept on saying, when is it going to stop? There's going to be less and less shows. And it went from 39 shows to 139 shows to where we are now. They've always said the following, that it's got to stop at some point. Now, you would assume that's the right answer. However, I would say to you, for the 30 plus years I've been in the business, and we're just now in a lull as people kind of get rid of old media and transfer to new media, that they're figuring out their economics for the street. But the value of rights, whether that be movie rights, television rights, et cetera, has changed, but it has always gone up. Now the cost will come down now, I think, on the cost side, but the value of those rights are going up because people need great product for their platforms to drive subs.

[D]

They need live product, too, right?

[B]

But how can traditional TV survive?

[E]

I just said. I just said. I said as they're. As those things are changing. I said this. You're not listening. You don't listen to me. You don't give a shit about me.

[B]

I am listening, but I think that is a nuanced subject because we are in a transition point right now. And if the NFL just goes with the highest bidder and cuts out traditional TV networks, they sacrifice audience and they change fundamentally the way sports are consumed.

[E]

Well, you're going to have a really good test right now, Adam, I think made financially. Adam, Silver, an incredible deal.

[B]

The NBA Commission. Yeah. Yes.

[E]

So we were having dinner with Adam and Roger and Mark and myself and talking about our deals and etc.

[B]

As one does.

[E]

And he decided. Adam decided to break it up the way he broke it up. So am I going to go to NBC? Am I going to espn? Am I going to. Am I going to Amazon? Right. Mark and I decided the best thing to do is end up at one.

[B]

Place for UFC and for wwe.

[E]

Well, no, WWE is in multiple places.

[B]

Yeah.

[E]

So. But that has been traditionally, because there's different programming. We could do that. Right. So we're going to see where the ratings go for the NBA, and you're going to have a pretty good sense, hey, have they hurt their assets or have they not?

[B]

Okay, so if you were repping the NFL, which currently gets $11 billion a year in rights fees, are you looking for double when you open up those deals? I mean, there is nothing that powers viewership like the NFL. It is the unicorn, and it continues to separate itself.

[E]

Can you call Roger that? Mark and I can kind of represent.

[B]

I'm sure you'd love that.

[E]

They don't.

[B]

But the thing is, honestly, they don't need you. They've got the goods.

[E]

There's nobody better in the business than Roger.

[D]

But the truth is, it's not so much. Yes, they're going to max the marketplace on the rights fees, but they're never going to compromise their brand. That's what Ari's talking about.

[B]

Okay.

[D]

The NBA split it up to maximize dollars, but in Adam's mind, he put the right puzzle together to also expand his reach across linear.

[B]

And that's what he believes. And he got to send a middle finger to David Zaslav, who told him he didn't need the NBA, and he got Rogers attention.

[D]

If I could get that much money for the NBA, what could the NFL get?

[B]

Right? And I just look at what the NFL is about to get, and I think that that will necessarily impact the rest of the entertainment ecosystem, because so much money from these companies will be going to the NFL that. Like, how is CBS or NBC or espn? Like, how are they going to continue the investment in the kinds of shows and movies that your other clients care about?

[E]

Do you remember this guy, Art Stolnitz from Warner's Brothers? He was the head of business affairs.

[B]

No.

[E]

And I was. When I was baby agent, I was making a deal with him, and Bill Haber gave me this deal to make with him for one of his clients. And I said in the middle of negotiation I was like four days old as an agent and I said, that's not fair. And he told me, drive over to see me. I drive over, he goes, young man, fair is where we end up. They're only going to pay what is fair to them and is fair to the NFL. People are going to make rational decisions. Even if it's economically, you're going to look at it and say you don't understand it. They will make rational decisions for their platforms. They will end up at a fair place for both sides.

[D]

But to your point, Matt, some will fall off. There's no question. Some of these platforms that have historically been in the business, they will be pushed out.

[B]

Yeah, necessarily. All right, Ari, you're very close to David Ellison. What's the game plan there? Just lay it out for us.

[E]

I think he's doing an incredible job. I think the secret.

[B]

No, no, no. That's it. That is. That is not the question.

[E]

Hold on, let me answer the question. I get to answer it the way I want to, not the way I.

[B]

You have to answer the question. This is. This is not an earnings call.

[E]

I'm going to answer it my way. So I don't care. I think what he's done with the cto. Incredible. From Facebook.

[B]

He brought in. Yeah, he brought in a tech guy from Facebook. Okay. Incredible.

[E]

I think the Barry deal. Incredible.

[B]

Oh, you like Barry Weiss? Oh, right. She's represented by WME.

[E]

I don't think she is, is she?

[B]

According to IMDb, she is.

[E]

Oh, okay.

[B]

In fact, she came over from caa. You stole her.

[E]

Oh, I didn't do it, but I really like her.

[B]

Okay, so you think that's a positive.

[E]

Fact of the matter, is she has the right statement and the right objective.

[B]

It's not a surprise you would like her. Her politics appeal to super rich guys.

[E]

Here's what I like about her. We have to agree on what is truly fact. The only way we can actually report the news. It can't be one fact over here and one fact over here. There's going to be one fact. And she is trying to get to that conversation. Okay. And then I think the way he's organized the business as it relates to direct to consumer movies, television, how many movies they have to make, etc.

[D]

Etc.

[E]

He's doing a very good job and he's signed proper people. He is. He is changing the landscape of that place. And will he go after and get Warner's or whatever? I think it would be great for the business if we had a bigger player.

[B]

You do you think it's great for the business for two studios to merge?

[E]

Well, you don't know if they're going to keep Warner Brothers and keep both labels.

[B]

You don't know. They might, but, you know, Fox was still kept by Disney, and look where they are now.

[E]

What does that mean?

[B]

Meaning Disney ingested Fox.

[E]

And what does that mean?

[B]

It means that they are not making as many Fox movies as they once did. And that necessarily means a smaller piece of the pie for the talent that used to make those movies.

[E]

Okay. As I said to you, we're at a period of time after you get through this transition. I think you'll see a difference in the conversation, especially as costs come down. But that's okay. We might. Only time is going to tell if I'm right or you're right.

[B]

Sure. Well.

[D]

And Disney's not making as many movies as Disney was making, either.

[B]

Well, I wonder about the tech element. Do you think that the Ellisons can deliver on this promise to merge content expertise with tech expertise?

[E]

If anybody can do it, David Ellison can do it.

[B]

You think so?

[E]

He has a very good sense of tech. His father will help him, and he loves the movie and television business, actually loves it.

[B]

And money matters, Matt.

[D]

And of course, we think that otherwise we wouldn't have done the deal. That was part of the solution. That was part of the dream.

[B]

You mean the UFC deal? Yes, Correct.

[E]

And they have come at us on multiple different fronts, not only on the ufc, but other things in sports and in content, and they have been incredible.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, that UFC deal makes the most sense. You got a gigantic check, and you're going to have UFC fights on cbs.

[E]

You see this guy walking around and pacing and jumping around on the camera. That was like when we were in this negotiation, I mean, he. He insisted on that, and we kind of went full blown on that conversation. And that's all. That's all kind of designed by Shapiro.

[B]

When you got this major asset and you know that the entire value of this publicly traded company, tko, is dependent on getting a massive new deal for ufc. How do you run an auction?

[E]

We met with everybody. We had presentations back and forth over months. Months, Months, months. People then came forward and kind of. We started and got multiple conversations.

[B]

How close were you with Netflix?

[E]

Very, very.

[B]

Yeah. What was the differentiator?

[D]

They didn't want the volume at the end of the day. They wanted just the premium. So in that case, it was the numbered events, the pay per view dates every month.

[E]

And then we would have had to do what the NBA did and break up the package. And Mark and I were discussing that. Actually, I like the word discussing as opposed to what really happened. Fighting about that the whole time.

[D]

No, you got the fight nights with 30 dates, remember? But the number of events with 13. So that 30, if you could take it to one place, perfect. If you have to split it up, you have to split it up. Fortunately, we had a lot of folks interested in some of that 30. Matt. We at first were hoping Paramount would take the 30 and we would just do the premium with Netflix until cbs Peace. Guy ultimately said, forget it. We want the whole thing.

[B]

And when you don't go to Netflix, do you get a nasty text from Bella, Ari?

[D]

No.

[E]

I mean, they were disappointed. They were disappointed. And let me just. Let's be very clear. Let's just be very clear. Bella has been. And Ted have been incredible to Mark and I and the. And the agency and TKO with boxing. They are incredible executives. But at the end of the day, David and Jerry Cardinal and Jeff and Larry said, you know, he sent it to you. Studio streaming and live sports. They want to be in that space. And so then they came to us and said, here's what we want.

[D]

Okay, great. But, Matthew, you should know we were out of that Netflix deal before we got really serious with these guys.

[B]

So Larry's involved in decisions like that. Larry Ellison.

[E]

Yeah.

[B]

What's your next big negotiation?

[E]

When we go to the lightning round.

[B]

We're going to the lightning round. But last question. What's your next big negotiation?

[E]

My last big negotiation. What do you mean?

[B]

No, not last. What's your next big negotiation? Who's in the market right now that you expect big things from?

[E]

Well, we have. We have our super boxing matches for ufc.

[D]

No, no, boxing. He said boxing.

[B]

For Zoo.

[D]

For boxing.

[B]

Oh, the super boxing. Right, right, right. I thought you just did a deal. Didn't CBS take those?

[D]

We did. They took them domestically, and we're now in the market selling them globally.

[B]

Okay. All right.

[E]

Yeah.

[B]

That's less sexy.

[E]

I don't know about. If you don't want the money, I'll take it.

[B]

No, I know you do. Is that what motivates you? Money still? You've made hundreds of millions of dollars.

[E]

I still love what I do every day. I love it. I get up. You're addicted to it every day. Yeah, I love it. Yeah. I love representing people. I love talking about projects they're doing next. I love things Mark and I talk about. I love what are now how we're trying to build the events business and One of the things that people don't realize, each one has ripple effects on the other and gives different understanding of the marketplace. In the global environment of entertainment and content, they play off each other constantly.

[B]

Okay, that's good. And. And are you are going to live forever? Are you still eating the worms?

[E]

The list of shit I'm doing is. Has gotten so long, it's crazy. That's a whole different podcast.

[B]

I know, I know. You got to go in a wellness pod for that. All right, let's do the lightning.

[D]

Young people is every week.

[B]

Ferrari.

[D]

There's a fast every single week.

[B]

Oh, don't do that. That's unhealthy. Don't do the fasting. I say that, like, worms are fine, but whatever. All right, lightning round. And this is. It's a yes.

[E]

No, Mark, I could get in trouble here.

[B]

No, no, no. It's a straight answer.

[D]

I'm already ready to give you notes afterwards.

[B]

Give me your. Give me your answer and then we will move on. Okay. It's only. Don't answer that. I may have a follow up, so.

[E]

Okay.

[B]

The biggest star in the world right now is blank, depending on the movie.

[E]

Probably Leo if certain movies. And probably Robert Downey Jr.

[B]

In Marvel.

[E]

Those are Brad Pitt, Dwayne Johnson. The biggest star in screaming. Is Mark Wahlberg actually on the movie side? Not even close. Just go look at all of his movies.

[B]

What's Mark's. What's Wahlberg's quote? 30.

[E]

No, no, this is lightning round. Move the on.

[D]

And don't forget Taylor Swift for the biggest star on the planet. And that maybe even be the big screen.

[B]

Her last two movies are Amsterdam and Cats, so I don't think we can call her a movie star yet.

[D]

The numbers say differently.

[B]

Okay, the thing nobody in Hollywood is talking about, but they should be, is blank.

[E]

I passed because you. You. You won't let me go where I want to go.

[B]

Go. The floor is yours.

[E]

No, I'm not doing it. I'm not doing that.

[B]

Okay, now I'm gonna get emails. What. What would Ari. What did Ari want to say? What do you just do it briefly?

[E]

No, I'm not doing it. I'm not doing it because I'm trying to be more mature. There's certain people in their 60s that shouldn't be running certain things.

[B]

Oh, you talk about the CAA guys. Yeah. You think the CA guys. All right, I got a CA question. I'll just go right to that. CAA's Brian Lord stands for blank.

[E]

Duplicity.

[B]

You know, he did call you. He Called you another ethical person.

[E]

That's fucked up. It is so beneath me to talk about that dude.

[B]

Oh, it is. You're bigger than him now.

[E]

Like, by only 100 miles.

[D]

Matt, this is a lightning round.

[A]

I know.

[B]

I'm getting off topic. All right, Elon, Dwayne Johnson, and Dana White are all on your call sheet. All things being equal, Ari, who do you call back first?

[E]

Dana White.

[B]

Why?

[E]

He's my partner at TKO and one of the biggest assets in the. In that business.

[B]

Okay, but Elon could launch a rocket at your house.

[E]

But depending on the circumstances. Because I might need to talk to Dwayne about something that Dana wants.

[D]

Well, and Dwayne's on our board, and he controls Ari's comp, so he might have to call him back fast.

[B]

That's right. Okay, who. Who in Hollywood is sneaky rich? Like, we wouldn't realize how much money they've made in this business.

[D]

On the.

[E]

Non actor side and actress side, I actually don't know that because you always think people may have more money than they have.

[B]

Sure. This is a question you can answer, though. Who generates the most money for William Morris Endeavor? Is it Dick Wolf? I've actually heard that it's Jim Brooks Simpson's money or Seth MacFarlane family guy money.

[D]

We can't say that either. We're a privately held company. We got a lot of different investors, and we treat all of our clients equally. Meaning asses. All for them, period.

[E]

Thank God Shapiro's in my life.

[B]

You were about to answer. God damn it, I was about to answer. So good.

[E]

Thank you very much, Matt. It's been a great.

[B]

No, no, no, no. We're not done. There's a couple more. Do you think Bob Iger regrets having come back to Disney?

[E]

I have no idea. I don't really think about it.

[B]

Okay. That's a Don Draper answer. I don't think about you at all.

[E]

I got enough problems of my own. We all have a lot of problems he's trying to operate through. I think he's put it back on the right footing, but I think he entered a very tough environment, which I think he realized. But if there's anybody that can operate through it, he can.

[D]

And by the way, if he didn't want to be, I have to chime in on this because he's been such a big partner of ours for a long time.

[E]

He's incredible.

[D]

If he didn't want to be here, he wouldn't be here, period. So it's in the eye of the boulder. He knew what he was getting into. Maybe it was more than he thought, but he's liking it enough to continue going.

[B]

Okay, Mark, you ran Six Flags. Do you think Disney is leaning too heavily on price hikes at their parks?

[D]

No, but just going back to your rights question about sports rights, just when you think they can't raise ticket prices anymore, they do. I was in shock when I saw that this morning.

[E]

Yeah, But, Mark, can I actually question. Did you read that article about luxury hotels and luxury clothes at a certain point in time and the process of how luxury bags price themselves out, which is starting to happen. It could happen at the theme parks.

[B]

Yeah. Especially for a brand that's built on the middle class.

[D]

But Josh d' Amoro is terrific. He knows incredible cruise lines have been.

[A]

An absolute home run.

[D]

And as long as the experience matches the price, you can keep taking it.

[E]

That's true. And it's an incredible experience.

[B]

Okay. Would you still advise a kid who's the top of their class to come to Hollywood to make a name for themselves? Yeah.

[E]

My son has just started in the business.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh, what's he do?

[E]

He's on Mosquito bowl with Pete. He was at Miramax. He was one of the people on Play Dirty. Yeah, he's in the business. He's working his ass off. He enjoys it. As long as you love it and are willing to eat, drink, sleep, business, you can succeed.

[D]

And Ezra Emanuel's doing that. He's chasing hard. He's grinding.

[B]

But you got to accept that the money will never be what it was when you came up. Right?

[E]

Will you stop? You know something? I need you to tell me where IBM is going, because then I'll invest. Because you. You have some sort of idea that you know where everything's going.

[B]

I don't. I'm just. I'm looking at the realities of The Hollywood of 2025 is very different than the Hollywood of the late 80s and early 90s.

[E]

I think the business is going to be really profitable in the future.

[B]

Okay, what is your ultimate goal with all of your companies? What would have you say? You know what? I'm good. I want to be on the yacht. And is it taking them all public again? Is it selling them like Teddy Forsman did? Like, what is it?

[E]

I don't have some grant scheme. Like I said, everybody. I don't do my health to live forever. I do my health to live healthy. I've already made a lot of money, as you said. I do them because I still enjoy them. When I stop enjoying them, I'll stop Doing them?

[B]

Yeah. I said Teddy Forstman, but he had. He died and then it was sold. So it wasn't like he decided to get out.

[D]

Work is intertwined in Ari's life, right? I mean, I know he's on the phone all the time, and he loves doing it. Like vacation, holidays. He just loves doing it. He's got some ample time, or he's sitting around, or he's even on the golf course and he feels like talking to somebody. He makes that call.

[B]

Speaking of the calls, do you feel a little bit proud that you set up the meetings with Trump and Ellison that ultimately led to that deal happening?

[E]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. That's a nice little move. It's the essence of a power broker.

[E]

Okay, whatever.

[B]

What was your last conversation with Trump about?

[E]

I talked to him on Thursday, a week ago.

[B]

And.

[E]

And I said to him, if you can actually get this peace deal done, you actually do deserve a Nobel Peace Prize. And I said. He goes, what are you talking about? And I said, well, Mr. President, this conflict has been going on for 3,000 years, and if you can actually get it done where there is a place for the Palestinians to have a homeland, peace for Jews and coexistence in the region, you deserve it. And he does.

[B]

And you think this is a real piece. I don't want to get into politics.

[E]

Here, but I'm hoping, yeah.

[B]

3,000 years of history suggests otherwise, but.

[E]

I do believe he is, for the first time, as opposed to being Egypt, Jordan, Syria, you now have Saudi Arabia, uae, Qatar vested in this solution and Indonesia and Turkey. He has actually put together an incredible group. And if this can be signed and then put in place the way I have read the 20 point plan, he does deserve it. As much as people might think, that's whatever. The man deserves it, and I hope it happens.

[D]

I think most would agree with that. President Trump got excited because for a minute he thought Ari was coming back into his life as his agent.

[B]

Oh, stop, stop. No, but you know what? You could tell him that tariffs don't make any sense in entertainment, and he. Can you tell him about this federal tax credit that he should put in place?

[E]

Thank you for telling me what to talk about.

[B]

About. I appreciate it. Listen, I'm just. I'm just giving you advice.

[E]

Okay, I appreciate it. I'm not listening to it. I'll talk to you later. Goodbye.

[B]

Thank you, guys. Appreciate the time.

[D]

Thanks, Matthew.

[B]

Okay, no call sheet today. That's the show. I want to thank my guest, AR Emanuel and Mark Shapiro, producer Craig Horbeck, our Jesse Lopez and I want to thank you. Special Monday episode live from the Bloomberg screen time event. We'll see you then.