Podcast Summary: "The Town with Matthew Belloni"

Episode: Part 2: What Ari Emanuel Talks About With Trump and the Rock
Date: October 10, 2025
Guests: Ari Emanuel (WME/Endeavor CEO), Mark Shapiro (President, Endeavor)
Host: Matthew Belloni

Main Theme

This episode continues Matt Belloni’s in-depth conversation with Ari Emanuel and Mark Shapiro, two of Hollywood and sports’ most powerful dealmakers. The discussion zeroes in on sports rights, the shifting entertainment landscape, streamers versus legacy media, and high-level Hollywood power moves—including conversations with Donald Trump and Dwayne “The Rock” Johnson. The latter half features a lightning round with candid, sometimes spicy takes on industry figures and issues.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Ceiling on Sports Media Rights (02:00–08:00)

• Ongoing Rights Inflation: Despite constant speculation about a peak, Ari notes the value of content rights (movies, TV, sports) has continued to rise over three decades—driven by platforms’ hunger for premium product to drive subscriptions.
• Baseball/Regional Model: Shapiro predicts “the middle is going to get cut out,” with top-tier rights (NFL, NBA) surging while middling properties take a “haircut.”
• New Strategies: The NBA’s approach—splitting rights across linear and digital outlets—is seen as a test for future deals.
• The NFL’s Unique Power: Belloni asks if its rights could double; Emanuel and Shapiro say the NFL won't compromise brand for short-term money.

Quote:
“They have always said… it's got to stop at some point. Now, you would assume that's the right answer. However, I would say to you, for the 30+ years I've been in the business... the value of rights... has always gone up.” —Ari Emanuel [03:23]

2. Impact on Broader Entertainment Ecosystem (07:00–10:30)

• Ripple Effects: Ballooning sports rights are crowding out investment in other types of content.
• Fairness in Deals: Emanuel shares a formative anecdote—industry determines what's “fair” through negotiation, not sentimentality.

Quote:
“Fair is where we end up. They're only going to pay what is fair to them and is fair to the NFL.” —Ari Emanuel recalling Art Stolnitz [07:18]

3. David Ellison—Building a Tech-Forward Hollywood Powerhouse (08:00–10:50)

• Enthusiasm for Ellison: Ari praises the Skydance boss for hiring top tech talent and restructuring operations; also compliments Barry Weiss for her objective-driven news angle.
• Industry Consolidation: Diverging takes on studio mergers—Ari is optimistic but acknowledges uncertainty for traditional studio output post-merger.

Quote:
“He's doing a very good job and... is changing the landscape of that place. And will he go after and get Warner's or whatever? I think it would be great for the business if we had a bigger player.” —Ari Emanuel [09:24]

4. The UFC/Endeavor Rights Auction (11:00–13:30)

• Auction Strategy: Emanuel and Shapiro describe a months-long process courting multiple streaming and broadcast partners. Netflix was “very, very” close, but traditional networks wanted more events, not just highlights or tentpoles.
• Package Deals: A consensus formed around CBS wanting the entire package. Netflix sought only premium events, which led to a split in discussions.
• Relationship Management: Ari calls Netflix’s Ted Sarandos and Bela Bajaria “incredible executives,” maintaining warmth despite the business outcome.

Quote:
“We met with everybody. We had presentations back and forth over months. People then came forward and… we started and got multiple conversations.” —Ari Emanuel [11:45]

5. Motivation, Wealth, and Work Ethic (14:13–14:50)

• Money vs. Passion: Belloni pushes Emanuel on what keeps him going; Emanuel says passion for deal-making and representing talent, not just money.

Quote:
“I still love what I do every day. I love it. I get up. You're addicted to it every day.” —Ari Emanuel [14:21]

6. The Lightning Round—Candid Industry Takes (15:00–20:00)

Biggest Star in the World (15:28)

• Film: Leo DiCaprio, Robert Downey Jr., Brad Pitt, Dwayne Johnson.
• Streaming: Mark Wahlberg (“on the movie side, not even close”).
• Note: Taylor Swift mentioned—debate on her film star status.

Hollywood’s Blind Spots (16:08)

• Ari dodges, hints at issues with older leadership running agencies: “There’re certain people in their 60s that shouldn’t be running certain things.”

CAA’s Brian Lord (16:37)

• Emanuel provides the pointed single-word answer: “Duplicity.”

Power Callbacks (17:07)

• Given Elon Musk, Dwayne Johnson, and Dana White, he calls back Dana White first—critical to their shared business (TKO).

Sneaky Rich in Hollywood (17:40)

• Emanuel won’t speculate, says it’s hard to know non-actor net worths.

Top-Earning Clients (18:00)

• Declines to name WME’s biggest money-generators, citing client privacy.

Bob Iger’s Return (18:31)

• Both note respect for Iger. Shapiro says, “If he didn’t want to be here, he wouldn’t be here, period.”

Disney Parks Price Hikes (19:11)

• Shapiro: Astounded at the price increases; Emanuel warns about overreaching and pricing out the middle class.

Advice for Young Outsiders (19:59)

• Both endorse a Hollywood career for passionate youth, but Belloni notes “the money will never be what it was.”

7. Personal Philosophy & Future Plans (20:52–21:57)

• No Grand Exit Scheme: Emanuel claims he’s not driven by an “ultimate goal” like selling or IPO-ing; cites enjoying the work as the core reason for persistence.
• Work-Life Blend: Shapiro describes Emanuel as inseparable from his work, even working from vacation or the golf course.

8. Brokerage with Trump and the "Nobel Peace Prize" Conversation (21:48–23:13)

• Facilitating Power Meetings: Ari set up the encounter between Trump and Ellison, which culminated in a major deal.
• Latest Chat with Trump: Emanuel recounts telling Trump, “If you can actually get this peace deal done, you deserve a Nobel Peace Prize,” referring to Middle East negotiations.
• Political Optimism: Ari believes Trump’s regional coalition is unprecedented; if peace is realized, he’s earned accolades.

Memorable Moment/Quote:
“I said to him, if you can actually get this peace deal done, you actually do deserve a Nobel Peace Prize… this conflict has been going on for 3,000 years, and if you can actually get it done... you deserve it.” —Ari Emanuel [22:10]

Notable Quotes

• On Rights Value:
  “The value of those rights are going up because people need great product for their platforms to drive subs.” —Ari Emanuel [04:06]

• On Industry Fairness:
  “Fair is where we end up.” —Ari Emanuel (recounting Art Stolnitz) [07:18]

• On Consolidation:
  “We might. Only time is going to tell if I’m right or you’re right.” —Ari Emanuel on studio mergers [10:11]

• On Career Motivation:
  “I still love what I do every day… I love representing people. I love talking about projects… In the global environment of entertainment and content, they play off each other constantly.” —Ari Emanuel [14:21, 14:47]

• On CAA Rivalry:
  “Duplicity.” —Ari Emanuel (re: Brian Lord) [16:47]

• On Politics:
  “If you can actually get this peace deal done, you deserve a Nobel Peace Prize.” —Ari Emanuel (to Trump) [22:10]

Summary Table of Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment | |--------------|---------------------------------------------| | 02:00–08:00 | Sports rights ceiling and media transitions | | 08:00–10:50 | Ellison, tech, and Hollywood consolidation | | 11:00–13:30 | UFC dealmaking and Netflix talks | | 14:13–14:50 | Money vs. motivation | | 15:00–20:00 | Lightning round (stars, rivals, callers) | | 21:48–23:13 | Trump, Nobel, and Middle East peace |

Memorable Moments

• Ari joking about only answering questions his way, not like an “earnings call.” [08:13]
• His lightning round swipe at CAA’s Brian Lord: “Duplicity.” [16:47]
• Reflection on the absurd wellness trends in his life (“The list of shit I’m doing is. Has gotten so long, it’s crazy. That’s a whole different podcast.”) [14:54]
• The Trump phone call and his blunt Nobel pitch. [22:10]
• Mark Shapiro: “Work is intertwined in Ari’s life, right? I mean, I know he’s on the phone all the time, and he loves doing it.” [21:33]

Takeaway

This episode is a candid, rapid-fire look at the power dynamics of modern Hollywood and sports, through the boisterous personalities of Ari Emanuel and Mark Shapiro. From streaming wars and mega-rights deals to the psychology of dealmaking and memorable phone calls with presidents and megastars, this is a crash course in how the entertainment business really gets done—full of bravado, insight, and sharp industry gossip.