The Town with Matthew Belloni
Episode: Sony Film CEO on Losing ‘Sinners’ and the Endless Big Tech Battle
Date: February 23, 2026
Guest: Tom Rothman, Chairman and CEO of Sony Pictures Motion Picture Group
Co-host/Contributor: Lucas Shaw
Episode Overview
This episode, recorded live with film students at the AFI Conservatory, features a candid conversation between host Matt Belloni and Sony Pictures Chairman & CEO, Tom Rothman. The discussion zeroes in on Sony’s unique position in Hollywood—succeeding as a standalone movie studio without its own general interest streaming service—while navigating big tech’s infiltration into entertainment. Rothman shares insights on the ever-evolving industry landscape, the critical importance of theatrical releases and exclusive “windows,” Sony’s creative strategies in a world dominated by IP, and the high-profile loss of Ryan Coogler’s ‘Sinners’ and Christopher Nolan’s ‘Oppenheimer’. The episode is packed with reflections on film history, corporate strategy, and personal philosophies about making “dope shit” that matters.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Historical Context and Major Shifts in Hollywood (04:29–07:46)
- Rothman’s office at Columbia: Emphasizes the importance of legacy and the century-spanning history of studios like Columbia, something tech companies can’t buy.
- Notable quote: “The studios, the historic studios, which are now seem to be called the Legacy Studios, have that all the Apple money in the world cannot buy. And that’s history.” (Tom Rothman, 03:32)
- Hollywood’s five climactic moments:
- Invention of sound
- End of the studio system
- Invention and proliferation of television
- Analog-to-digital transition
- The entry of hyperscale tech companies (e.g., Apple, Amazon, Netflix), creating a fundamentally new competitive environment
- Quote: “Now we’re in the fifth...the entry of truly hyperscale technology companies into our business at a level of capitalization beyond anything that could ever been conceived.” (Rothman, 06:54)
2. The Big Tech/Legacy Studio Divide & The “Windows” Debate (07:46–14:08)
- Why tech companies are different: For trillion-dollar tech companies, making movies is not about profit—it’s a diversification.
- Quote: “They actually don’t have to make profit. It’s such a small portion of what their balance sheets are.” (Rothman, 07:50)
- Opportunities for Sony in a Tech-Dominated World: Rothman insists studios like Sony still have unique creative and marketing abilities.
- Quote: “In the immortal words of Beyonce…‘Make dope shit.’” (Rothman, 09:08)
- Theater ‘windows’ and exclusivity:
- Rothman argues the industry’s biggest error post-COVID was undermining theatrical exclusivity (the “window”).
- The collapse of the window has conditioned audiences not to prioritize the theater.
- Rich context on how “windowing” has always evolved with TV, VHS, DVD, pay TV, and now streaming.
- Quote: “If enough movies come out in 17 days, they know. Maybe not today or tomorrow, but soon. And they’re not idiots.” (Rothman, 13:24)
3. Streaming Partnerships and the Value of Theatrical Releases (15:55–18:43)
- Sony’s relationship with Netflix:
- Sony is Netflix’s biggest supplier of films, and the streamer’s pay-one window is hugely lucrative.
- Quote: “Our product is so valuable to Netflix, because you know about it. If we’ve made it good enough, you’re going to care about it.” (Rothman, 16:04)
- Streaming vs. Theater Exposure: Rothman challenges the idea that streaming and theatrical releases are creatively equal:
- Notable audience poll for AFI students: No one dreams of their life’s work going straight-to-streaming.
- Quote: “How many of you...the movie you care about...want to put that movie out in movie theaters with that lady in front of it? It ain’t equal.” (16:37)
4. Case Study: K-Pop Demon Hunters – Streaming Success (17:05–19:51)
- K-Pop Demon Hunters: Most-watched Sony release of the year, but crucially found its audience slowly on Netflix.
- Rothman explains why the film’s “word of mouth” model and repeat viewing worked on streaming and not as a theatrical “parachute business.”
- Quote: “Repeat viewing is free. Repeat viewing in movie theaters is not free.” (Rothman, 18:25)
- Sony’s animation division:
- After K-Pop Demon Hunters, Sony Pictures Animation is now the “hottest animation shop in town,” attracting new talent.
- The Netflix deal was a win for both parties, and Rothman stresses that their job is to “deliver them hits.” (19:31)
5. High-Profile Project Losses & Studio Strategy (19:51–24:25)
- Losing Ryan Coogler’s ‘Sinners’: Rothman doesn’t regret passing on ‘Sinners’ over copyright terms, but openly admits sadness at not landing the project.
- Quote: “You can never ruin your business for one movie.” (Rothman, 21:29)
- The studio’s library is the true asset backing the business.
- Special case exception for Tarantino’s unique retention of copyright, which was “grandfathered in.”
- Chasing top filmmakers: Rothman confirms he’s still gunning for collaborations with Christopher Nolan and Ryan Coogler, among others. He considers repeat collaborations with auteurs a sign of a healthy studio.
6. The “Filmmaker’s Executive” & Repeat Relationships (23:18–24:25)
- Emphasis on repeat creative partnerships:
- Deep pride in being a “filmmaker’s executive,” citing ongoing collaborations with Danny Boyle and Sam Mendes.
- Quote: “The mark of a good executive and a strong company is do you do repeat business?” (24:11)
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
On legacy:
“That’s a great thing. One of the great lucky things about the incredible fortune and good luck that I have with the job that I have. But it’s the thing that the studios, the historic studios… have that all the Apple money in the world cannot buy. And that’s history.” (Rothman, 03:32) -
On the role of studios in the streaming era:
“Algorithms don’t market. We do.” (Rothman, 16:04) -
On what distinguishes Sony from the tech giants:
“Make dope shit.” (Rothman quoting Beyonce, 09:08) -
On creative dreams:
“The movie you care about, that you’ve been thinking about making since you were ever a kid—want to put that movie out in movie theaters with that lady in front of it? It ain’t equal.” (Rothman, 16:37) -
On loss and legacy:
“You can never ruin your business for one movie.” (Rothman, 21:29)
Key Timestamps for Important Segments
- 03:32 | Rothman on Columbia Pictures’ history and “what money cannot buy”
- 06:54 | The “fifth climacteric” — Big Tech entering Hollywood
- 09:08 | “Make dope shit” — Rothman’s creative mantra
- 12:14 | Rothman on the “windows” problem post-COVID
- 16:04 | “Algorithms don’t market. We do.”
- 17:05 | K-Pop Demon Hunters as word-of-mouth streaming success
- 19:51 | Sony’s relationship with Netflix and the animation talent boom
- 20:02 | On passing on ‘Sinners’ and not caving to unique copyright terms
- 23:18 | Rothman on the importance of working repeatedly with great filmmakers
- 24:11 | “Mark of a good executive...do you do repeat business?”
Tone and Style
The conversation is lively, candid, and packed with both history lessons and current-day, unscripted industry insight. Rothman is simultaneously proud of Sony’s legacy and bluntly realistic about industry economics and the necessity of adapting to a tech-dominated environment. The dynamic with Belloni and Lucas Shaw is sharp; there’s friendly sparring, a teacher’s presence and advice for young filmmakers, and plainspoken, memorable soundbites.
For Listeners Who Missed It
- The episode lights up the tension between Hollywood’s legacy and Big Tech’s relentless scale-chasing.
- Rothman pulls few punches: he admits regrets, owns tough decisions, and repeatedly defends the idea that making undeniably great films for theaters is still what makes studios like Sony indispensable—even as streaming partners.
- Listeners get rare, real-time insights about Sony’s internal strategy, project selection, and executive philosophy, making this must-listen content for anyone curious about how old-school studios survive and thrive in streaming Hollywood.
Stay tuned for Part 2 with Tom Rothman, to be released tomorrow.