Sundance ’26 Bidding Wars and ‘Melania’ Box Office Prospects

Summary

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Episode Overview

Podcast: The Town with Matthew Belloni
Episode: Sundance ’26 Bidding Wars and ‘Melania’ Box Office Prospects
Date: January 26, 2026

Matthew Belloni, at Sundance in Park City, welcomes legendary indie film dealmaker John Sloss to discuss the current state and evolution of the Sundance movie sales market, the resurgence of distributor competition, streamer impact on indie film, and the shifting dynamics between theaters and streaming. The episode also features a lively discussion about the prospects and political context of Amazon’s high-profile Melania Trump documentary.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Sundance Nostalgia & Film Market Evolution

• Nostalgia at the Final Utah Sundance: Both Belloni and Sloss reminisce about their extensive histories at the festival and its changing culture.
  • Sloss reveals he first attended in the early 1980s, marking his start even before Sundance became the film market it is today.
    • “I believe I came here the last year of the US Film Festival... 85 might have been my first year.” — John Sloss [03:36]
• Birth of the Film Market: The influence of Harvey Weinstein and Miramax in turning Sundance into a major sales and acquisition venue.
  • “Harvey drove this end of the business, just like he created the awards film as a genre.” — John Sloss [03:58]

2. The Art & Tactics of Film Deals

• Pressure Points & Seller Priorities: Not every deal is about the highest payday; creative satisfaction and marketing approach often matter more.
  • “Is it eyeballs? Is it someone who understands how to market it best? Is it money? It's not always money.” — John Sloss [05:19]
• Distributor Courtship: Filmmakers are increasingly soliciting detailed marketing pitches rather than selling to the highest bidder.
  • Example: Olivia Wilde wanting to hear each distributor’s plan for her film The Invite [05:41].

3. Streamers vs. Theatrical Distributors

• Changing Market Post-Pandemic:
  • Three years ago, streamers dominated—especially Netflix—because theaters shuttered and all-rights distributors struggled.
  • “The way things have changed a little bit is that the market for all rights acquisition has come back. There are all these new distributors now, and they're having some success getting people back into theaters.” — John Sloss [09:55]
• Current Market Health for Indie Movies:
  • Narrative film sales at Sundance are stronger now than pre-pandemic, due to recovering theatrical business and fresh buyers like Roque [09:47].
  • New distributors ‘making a splash’ at Sundance is still an important industry move.

4. Streamers’ Buying Habits and Filmmaker Calculus

• The ‘Streaming Tax’: Streamers, especially Netflix, must often offer a significant premium (sometimes double) over theatrical competitors to secure highly desired films.
  • “In Hitman's case, it was double [the next best offer].” — John Sloss [12:34]
  • “If Netflix decides they want something, they will just pay what they need to get it.” — Matt Belloni [12:45]
• Visibility vs. Prestige:
  • Filmmakers weigh the trade-off between the huge audience reach of Netflix/Amazon vs. the potential for theatrical wins and cultural cachet.
  • “At the end of the day, there are exponentially more eyeballs on them, those films than the average theatrical release.” — John Sloss [13:20]
• Buyer Regret?: Some filmmakers regret streaming deals due to loss of theatrical buzz; others regret theatrical releases due to critical and commercial pressures [15:34].

5. Landscape of Indie Distributors (with a24 Spotlight)

• a24’s Evolution: As banners like a24 mature, there’s pressure to focus more on commercially viable films to justify billion-dollar valuations.
  • “There's pressure on making more commercial films and getting, you know, having bigger home runs.” — John Sloss [16:43]
  • The example of a24’s pricey “Marty Supreme” was discussed to highlight this trend [16:53].

6. The Return (or Not) of Bidding Wars

• Sundance’s Legendary All-Night Bidding Wars:
  • Fewer today, mostly due to older execs and strategic patience by buyers.
  • However, certain films (like The Invite) can reignite this dynamic with organized pitch sessions [22:40].
  • “...the buyers benefit from elongating things because they get to see all the films on offer...It's our job to try and create some urgency.” — John Sloss [21:26]

7. Deal Ethics & Auction Tactics

• Maintaining Professional Integrity:
  • Sloss insists he does not mislead buyers about competitive offers, setting a professional standard:
    • “We don't lie. And I don't know sellers who do, frankly.” — John Sloss [24:12]
  • Nuanced strategy, not cut-throat auction tactics, is his preferred approach [23:00–23:44].

8. Legendary Deal Stories

• Classic Sloss-Weinstein Showdown:
  • Sloss recounts Harvey Weinstein’s notorious heavy-handed tactics during the sale of “Precious” and “City of Hope”.
    • “He literally spun around. He said, I'm going to kill you, and I'm going to release a film the same day. I'm going to bury your fucking film.” — John Sloss [27:03]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Negotiation Realities:
  “Perception is in the eye of the perceived.” — John Sloss [24:06]

• On Bidding War Evolution:
  “I kind of miss those days with the all night bidding wars.” — John Sloss [21:15]

• On Streamer Priorities:
  “The streamers aren't really interested in Discovery films because they don't really have the tools to break a filmmaker or a new vision because they can't let a film sit in theaters.” — John Sloss [08:20]

• Legendary Harvey Weinstein Threat:
  “He literally spun around. He said, I'm going to kill you, and I'm going to release a film the same day. I'm going to bury your fucking film.” — John Sloss [27:03]

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Important Timestamps & Segment Highlights

• Sundance Nostalgia and Origins: [02:30–04:33]
• How Deal-Making Works Now: [05:06–07:47]
• Streamers vs. Theatrical Distributors: [08:18–10:11]
• The ‘Streaming Tax’ and Distribution Delta: [12:05–13:12]
• Changing Face of Indie Distributors (a24, Amazon, Warner Bros, etc.): [16:03–20:32]
• Shift in Bidding Wars & Auction Dynamics: [21:06–22:52]
• Deal Tactics & Ethics: [23:00–24:23]
• Harvey Weinstein Stories & the Precociousness of Indie Dealings: [25:19–27:36]

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The Melania Trump Documentary: Cultural and Box Office Prospects

• Segment Starts: [28:23]

• Podcast hosts speculate about box office prospects for Amazon’s splashy Melania documentary, produced by Brett Ratner and heavily promoted.

  • Tracking predicts a $5M opening weekend—a record for non-concert docs since COVID, but driven by massive $35M marketing spend.
  • Pre-sales highly polarized by political geography (“If it's a red county, the tickets are selling. If it's a blue county, they're not.” — Matt Belloni [30:48])
  • Critics aren’t being given advance screeners; expectation is for a “car crash” of a documentary, perhaps only worth an ironic or hate-watch [31:49].

• Notable Quotes:

  • “Embarrassing for everyone. Yeah. Not great. That the President's wife's vanity documentary that Amazon paid $40 million in blood money for is premiering as the country seems to be devolving into chaos. But we are not a political podcast. We are an entertainment business podcast.” — Matt Belloni [29:07]

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Conclusion

This episode of “The Town” provides a comprehensive, insider’s look at how the Sundance sales market has bounced back post-pandemic, the continuing impact (and premiums) necessary for streamers to secure desired indie films, and enduring deal strategies and stories from a top industry player. The episode closes with an irreverent but insightful chat about the spectacle and contradictions of marquee political docs in the current climate.

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Transcript

[Matt Bellamy]

This episode of the Town is brought to you by Netflix. Presenting Train Dreams. Nominated for four film independent spirit awards including best Picture and best Director Clint Bentley, the Playlist lauds it as a career best performance from nominee Joel Edgerton. Winner of the Critics Choice award for best cinematography. RogerEbert.com raves, it's a film that reached into my heart and soul. You don't just watch it, you breathe it in. And New York Magazine hails Train Dreams the best picture of the year for your awards consideration. This episode is brought to you by Warner Bros. Pictures. Presenting Sinners, written and directed by Ryan Coogler and starring Michael B. Jordan. Hailed as the best picture of the year, the New York Times calls Sinners a big screen exaltation, a passionate, effusive praise song about life and love, including the love of movies. And Timeout says Ryan Coogler's bold vision makes Sinners a true event, an exuberant widescreen experience that that stirs the soul. Sinners is awards eligible in all categories including Best Picture, Best Director and Best Actor. It is Monday, January 26th. We are at Sundance. Craig and I have made the rounds here in Park City. It's pretty effing cold. Thanks to everyone who's come up and said hello. Lots of townies here for the final Sundance in Utah special. Shout out to the two ladies at the HBO documentaries party last night who made me retake a selfie with them because I quote looked bad the first time.

[John Sloss]

Thank you for that.

[Matt Bellamy]

As for the movies, Eugene Hernandez was right last week on the show. I liked the Olivia Wilde movie the Invite a lot, some others not so much. Definitely a lot of nostalgia in the freezing air here. I hosted a great dinner with filmmakers and producers last night and people just kind of went around the table telling amazing stories from the festival, big deals and culture changing movies and celebrities doing dumb stuff. That dinner was off the record, but my co host for that dinner is our guest today. John Sloss is the consummate Sundance salesman and deal maker. He sold hundreds and hundreds of movies over the years, from Little Miss Sunshine to Precious and all the Richard Linklater films to a bunch of titles he's selling at this year's festival like Chasing Summer and Doc's like the Oldest person in the World. We're going to talk about the Sundance movie market, whether these streamers are still as dominant and how much more they need to pay to lure films away from theatrical distributors.

[John Sloss]

Why?

[Matt Bellamy]

The all night bidding war is mostly a relic of the past, although we got an exception this year, lots here to discuss. So today it's the state of the Sundance deal market with the king of the Sundance deal from the ringer and Puck. I'm Matt Bellany, and this is the town.

[John Sloss]

All right.

[Matt Bellamy]

We are here with John Sloss, the founder and head of Sinetic Media, partner at his namesake law firm and Sundance veteran. Is it fair to say you're the king of Sundance? You would probably say you're the king of Sundance.

[John Sloss]

I would never say. I'll leave that to others. Okay.

[Matt Bellamy]

We are here in the very glamorous the town condo at the base of Park City Mountain. On a scale of 1 to 10, how dumpy is this?

[John Sloss]

You must be doing very well.

[Matt Bellamy]

Oh, stop. This is not. This is not that. This is like, you're. You're okay with this? This is an acceptable environment for you?

[John Sloss]

Yeah, because I get to leave it in 20 minutes.

[Matt Bellamy]

No, it's fine. We have been here for four days now. We are going to talk a little bit about the market. We're going to talk a little bit about some Sundance memories. You must be getting nostalgic.

[John Sloss]

I'm getting extremely nostalgic.

[Matt Bellamy]

Like, this is the last time I'm going to stand outside the Echols.

[John Sloss]

I'm staying here till Friday so that I can get a full dose of nostalgia. But this has been a major trip down memory lane for me.

[Matt Bellamy]

What was your first year at Sundance in Park City?

[John Sloss]

I'm still trying to figure that out. I believe I came here the last year of the US Film Festival.

[Matt Bellamy]

Oh, wow. So, like, early 80s.

[John Sloss]

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

[Matt Bellamy]

Jesus Christ.

[John Sloss]

Yeah. I think 85 might have been my first year.

[Matt Bellamy]

But back in the day, obviously the market, as we know Sundance now did not exist.

[John Sloss]

The market? Let's face it, our erstwhile friend Harvey Weinstein kicked off the market.

[Matt Bellamy]

You believe that?

[John Sloss]

I do believe that. Okay. I mean, you know, there. There was marker desky at New Line and things like that. But. But Harvey drove this end of the business. Just like he created the awards film as a genre.

[Matt Bellamy]

Right.

[John Sloss]

He really did.

[Matt Bellamy]

And that was not until the late 80s, early 90s, because people say that that sexualizing videotape was the first, like, Sundance breakout. And that was a Miramax movie.

[John Sloss]

Yes, it was. Okay. And it was 1989. Famously, it did not win the grand jury prize. Many people don't believe that since it's one of the most famous films in the history of this film festival.

[Matt Bellamy]

And when you look at the landscape, do you notice when films are undersold, like you mentioned, when we Were talking before about the film A Real Pain, the Searchlight film, the Jesse Eisenberg film. You said if you were selling that, you would have got more for it.

[John Sloss]

I did say that. I don't necessarily want to repeat that to your viewers or your listeners.

[Matt Bellamy]

This is an advertisement because it'll anger.

[John Sloss]

The people who sold it. Sure.

[Matt Bellamy]

We're not naming them even. You can do it. All right.

[John Sloss]

And Jesse, look at Jesse. Jesse, who had a big hand in probably deciding who bought it, isn't all about the money. Sure.

[Matt Bellamy]

Listen, he got a couple Oscar noms out of the movie. He got a nice run. Searchlight handled it very well. Success. But the reason I'm asking you is what are the pressure points in a deal, in a Sundance deal?

[John Sloss]

Well, you gotta create a market or the perception of a market, and you've gotta decide what your priorities are. Is it eyeballs? Is it someone who understands how to market it best? Is it money? It's not always money.

[Matt Bellamy]

Yeah.

[John Sloss]

And, you know, my job as a representative is to really understand the priorities of the people I work for and then to optimize them.

[Matt Bellamy]

It's funny because I went to the party for the invite the other night after that film screen, Olivia Wilde's film, which did very well and is now in a bidding war as we are speaking. And I asked her, I said, what?

[John Sloss]

What?

[Matt Bellamy]

You know, who do you want this film to go to? And she's like, honestly, I want to hear what the different distributors have to say and what they understand about the movie and what they would do with it.

[John Sloss]

Yeah, I mean, it's very easy to be reductive and say, who's going to pay the most money? This is an auction. But the fact is, you create. You birth these films, you put your life into them, you spend a year and a half making them, and then you hand them off to someone who is just sort of grabbing them, you know, for the first time, they have 10 films waiting to release after that.

[Matt Bellamy]

Well, that used to be the criticism of Harvey, is that he would hoover up all these titles at Sundance and, you know, be in the room and sell people on the Harvey Weinstein experience. And then when push came to shove, he would make strategic decisions based on what the awards play was. What? And then all of a sudden, your movie that Harvey was, you know, clamoring for nine months ago is being dumped.

[John Sloss]

I mean, it happens. It happened with him all the time.

[Matt Bellamy]

Yeah, but it happens in other places.

[John Sloss]

But. But. Yeah, but it. But it's. It provoked, you know, for people who are Sort of paying attention and know what they're doing. It provoked some different approaches and I started to negotiate as part of deals that you can't release a film within three weeks before or after the release of this movie. And putting that in a contract.

[Matt Bellamy]

Right, that's like the dumb clause. You don't want to be dumb, you.

[John Sloss]

Don'T want to be dumped, you don't want to be distract them to be distracted. Right. And you know you're never going to have more leverage than when you've got numerous instruments interested party. So it really is incumbent upon you to think of all those things. But Olivia's exactly right. Distributors, they come to Sundance and they make up marketing proposals to bring the next day to you if they really want a film. And it has the added benefit of getting them more invested in the film. And so it's a double positive to really turn it around and make them sell themselves to you.

[Matt Bellamy]

So you were on the show three years ago and we talked a little bit about the market then. How has the market evolved in just those three years? You were talking about how the doc market was hot and narratives were less hot and how has it evolved?

[John Sloss]

I mean, logically, this is a festival of Discovery and it's a festival that privileges docs equally with scripted films.

[Matt Bellamy]

Yeah, all five Oscar nominated docs this year were Sundance movies and we've have.

[John Sloss]

A hand in almost all of them.

[Matt Bellamy]

You were talking about Netflix being the dominant player then. Is Netflix still the dominant player?

[John Sloss]

Well, here's the thing. We were coming out of the Pandemic and there was a double whammy against scripted films at that time because logically, the streamers aren't really interested in Discovery films because they don't really have the tools to break a filmmaker or a new vision because they can't let a film sit in theaters. They can't.

[Matt Bellamy]

They don't do much marketing.

[John Sloss]

They don't do much marketing. It's a closed circuit. And so they're looking for films with stars and, you know, high concept Perfect.

[Matt Bellamy]

Name is a great example. It's an elevated version of a, you know, an awful, awful crime story.

[John Sloss]

It was the Perfect Storm because it's an amazing film while also being like the best episode of Cops ever. Right. But I'm not talking about documentaries because documentaries have been sustained just fine. What happened in the Pandemic is that you have the rise of the streamers who aren't really interested in the scripted films that Sundance is famous for. And then you had the theaters closing so that the all rights distributors were really struggling and people weren't going to the theater, so they couldn't really pick up these Discovery films. So the way things have changed a little bit is that the market for all rights acquisition has come back. There are all these new distributors now, and they're having some success getting people back into theaters. And so I would say for the traditional scripted films that really thrive out of Sundance, the market is better than it was three years ago.

[Matt Bellamy]

Oh, you think so? Interesting.

[John Sloss]

Yeah.

[Matt Bellamy]

For that reason and just because of the new distributors in place and because.

[John Sloss]

People are going back to the theaters.

[Matt Bellamy]

Give us an example. Like, let's use Roque. Row K is this new distributor. We hosted a dinner last night, and, you know, we had people from all the different distributors there. Roque was among them. So, like, when new distributors come to town, do you still think it's, like, in their best interest to make a big Sundance splash?

[John Sloss]

Absolutely.

[Matt Bellamy]

Do you think so?

[John Sloss]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there are people who track what happens here. Even retail people. People who aren't in the industry.

[Matt Bellamy]

Yeah, retail people. Is that a term of art?

[John Sloss]

I'm. I'm trademarking it, just like Matthew McConaughey. So I think we should repeat it. But within the industry, you know, these kinds of announcements, these statement buys, have outsized impact on filmmakers on any number of people.

[Matt Bellamy]

I mean, it cuts both ways, though. Remember when Amazon came to Sundance, Jen sulked $50 million.

[John Sloss]

Yeah.

[Matt Bellamy]

Jen Salke took over Amazon Studios, came to Sundance, was like, oh, my God, people are clapping for this movie. Let's buy it. They spend $50 million, and then the movies come out, and it's like, we won't name the movies. Well, actually, we should name the movies. Well, it was the Mindy Kaling movie, Late Night.

[John Sloss]

Yeah, it was that.

[Matt Bellamy]

There was a couple others. Craig can figure that out.

[Craig]

Some of the movies Amazon bought were Late Night, Brittany Runs a Marathon, the Report, and Honey Boy.

[Matt Bellamy]

Yeah. All classics. But that's a dream for someone like you.

[John Sloss]

Yeah, I mean, you know, I don't traditionally sell the sizzle. In fact, if you look at the performance of the commercial films that we've had coming out of here, they have by and large performed. You know, if you look at Little Miss Sunshine or you look at.

[Matt Bellamy]

That was 20 years ago.

[John Sloss]

Even a film like Precious or Hitman or.

[Matt Bellamy]

That was back in the. Oh, Hitman's a good one. Yeah, that one. I mean, that good for Netflix. But you didn't. If I remember correctly, you didn't want to sell that to Netflix. You did because they offered the most money.

[John Sloss]

I left that to my client or the person, the people I was working for. I said, how big a delta between where the market is on this film and Netflix do you need from Netflix in order to feel good about going with Netflix? And they gave me a number, and I called Scott Stuber and I said, here's what we need. And, you know, he took a beat and said, okay.

[Matt Bellamy]

And that was the Glenn Powell movie with Rick Linklater. Yes. Okay, what is that delta like, typically? What is the delta that a filmmaker will need? You don't have to give me specifics on specific people, but let's call it the streaming tax. What do they need to pay extra to get a movie where there's a comparable bid that includes a robust theatrical release?

[John Sloss]

Well, I mean, look, as we all say, every situation is sui generis.

[Matt Bellamy]

As the lawyer says, 20%.

[John Sloss]

Not to tell Talis out of school, but in Hitman's case, it was double.

[Matt Bellamy]

Oh, that's an easy answer then, right?

[John Sloss]

Yeah, the math works.

[Matt Bellamy]

Yeah. And it seems like still, in these markets, if Netflix decides they want something, they will just pay what they need to get it.

[John Sloss]

Yeah.

[Matt Bellamy]

I mean, it happened last year with Train Dreams, which they bought, and then it turned out.

[John Sloss]

I don't. Did they pay a lot for Train Dreams?

[Matt Bellamy]

I believe it was 15 million.

[John Sloss]

Did they pay that much?

[Matt Bellamy]

I believe they did, yeah. Craig. And checked that. But it worked out for them. Hit on the service and best picture, nominated picture now.

[John Sloss]

Yeah.

[Matt Bellamy]

So that's a pretty good outcome.

[John Sloss]

Yeah.

[Matt Bellamy]

But I know that they had other offers for that movie.

[John Sloss]

I mean, it might have been a comparable situation to Hitman.

[Matt Bellamy]

Interesting.

[John Sloss]

And the weird thing is, the paradox here is that it can appear to filmmakers and people in the industry that Netflix is where films go to die because they just kind of disappear. But the fact is, at the end of the day, there are exponentially more eyeballs on them, those films than the average theatrical release.

[Matt Bellamy]

We are up here in the mountains, and everybody's obsessing over these titles and saying it's the second coming and these things are going to make a cultural impact. But 95% of these films, even the ones that sell, they are released to very small audiences.

[John Sloss]

I mean, they accumulate all rights films. It's hard to track them because, yes, they may not get a huge theatrical gross, but they play out through the different windows they do.

[Matt Bellamy]

And something like Train Dreams does get Best Picture and is getting a lot more. More eyeballs than, you know, if. If it had just been released. Through a tiny distributor without the Sundance.

[John Sloss]

Push, even without the Best Picture nom, it probably got the equivalent eyeballs of a $50 million grossing movie. You just don't know it.

[Matt Bellamy]

Right. The days of Harvey, being able to push a Sundance movie to $100 million like that is a. What did Precious gross?

[John Sloss]

Precious grossed over $50 million.

[Matt Bellamy]

That was a hard movie for a movie like that. Yeah, that would not do that. My point is that would never do that today.

[John Sloss]

You don't think so?

[Matt Bellamy]

No.

[John Sloss]

I called my old friend Tom Rothman and Peter Kujowski and Matthew Greenfield, Focus.

[Matt Bellamy]

He runs Searchlight when.

[John Sloss]

When we were selling Hitman. Now we're dwelling on this. He said, this film's going to gross 75 to $100 million. Glen Powell has a movie coming out with Sydney Sweeney. It's going to be a big hit, you know. Oh, you pretty close at that point. He would look at it. It was sort of like Steve Carell had 40 year old virgin in the can when we were selling Little Miss Sunshine and you kind of knew it was gonna pop. I don't think Sony thought that the Glen Powell Sydney Sweeney film was gonna be successful. But there was a shot at it and it was. And I'm selling it.

[Matt Bellamy]

Yeah, you're selling. So you're gonna take the rosy view.

[John Sloss]

But Hitman is a very pleasing commercial experience. And so it's possible, and I think it's possible that that film could have done that if I'd sold it to an all rights distributor and it did huge numbers on Netflix.

[Matt Bellamy]

Yeah. Do you ever hear regrets from filmmakers for selling a movie to streamers?

[John Sloss]

I've heard regrets on both sides. There are filmmakers who said, you know, I do. I need to go through, you know, the slings and arrows of half baked critics.

[Matt Bellamy]

When the negative box office headlines and a 24 having 10 movies. I know I'm never snarky, but the, you know, a 24 has a lot of movies now and they seem to be prioritizing bigger budget movies. Are you feeling that on the market level?

[John Sloss]

That's an interesting thing. And if you look at the history of sort of specialized film, there's a pressure in that direction.

[Matt Bellamy]

Yeah, I mean, ultimately it ended up happening with Miramax and the Weinstein Company. They started making bigger budget movies. Now they were also still picking up small movies. Right.

[John Sloss]

And they did it to sell themselves to Disney. I mean, you need an exit plan because. And it's funny, I had this conversation with a 24 a long time ago. I said after Moonlight, I said you know, this is a zero sum game. Maybe it's time for you to. To do a liquidity of air. Get out. And they said, no, no, we're going to double down on this. And it turns out they were right. But it's hard to sustain that. And there's pressure on making more commercial films and getting, you know, having bigger home runs.

[Matt Bellamy]

Yeah, well, in the case of a 24, when your valuation is in the billions of dollars, you kind of have to justify that. And to justify that, you need bigger movies.

[John Sloss]

Exactly.

[Matt Bellamy]

Marty supreme cost $70 million. That's not a festival movie.

[John Sloss]

One battle after another. $170 million.

[Matt Bellamy]

Is that what it really cost? I think that they're saying 130.

[John Sloss]

I think on a gross, that's a net number. I think on a gross level, it was.

[Matt Bellamy]

Yeah. But they got some incentives.

[John Sloss]

Yeah.

[Matt Bellamy]

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[John Sloss]

I mean, Netflix is still the cockiest buyer.

[Matt Bellamy]

They are. Yeah, because just because they have the biggest checkbook. They have the biggest checkbook and everybody knows that. Even Apple. Apple has bought movie. They bought Coda here in 2020.

[John Sloss]

If Apple wants something 20, 21. I mean, look at Apple's not crying poverty. The question is what? You know, they have a more diversified business than Netflix, I would say. But yes, you know, Netflix, Amazon. Look at Amazon. I mean, Amazon should be the biggest buyer here, right? And they were for a while, you know, so there are ebbs and flows with these different companies, but I think there are a lot of competing people with deep checkbooks here.

[Matt Bellamy]

One of them is Warner Brothers, and they have this new group that is here. I saw Christian Parks at an event the other night and I asked him, I'm like, are you buying? And he's like, oh, if we see, you know, and I think they are buying.

[John Sloss]

Did he give you a sense of what their agenda is in terms of?

[Matt Bellamy]

He did not. He keeps punting and saying, oh, when we establish ourselves, we're so new, you know, we'll explain everything. But my understanding is that their mandate is two to three movies a year, either buying or making. And until they can make the movies, they're going to be buying. So they're here to buy.

[John Sloss]

Is this genre, is this like traditional new line movies or what?

[Matt Bellamy]

No, there's smaller. They're, they're more prestige type movies like Sundance, movies like Warner Independent, something like that. Those were very small. But they see an opportunity. I am told they see an opportunity for movies with stars that are indie in focus but that have potential breakout.

[John Sloss]

I mean, are they going to compete for the invite?

[Matt Bellamy]

Yes. Well, I, I don't, I don't. I shouldn't say that because we don't know at this time. We don't know who's going to get it. But that would be the kind of movie, big stars, Olivia Wilde, Seth Rogen, Ed Norton, Penelope Cruz with, with a kind of indie twist on it. And who knows? I mean, but you, but you must be sizing them up as a seller.

[John Sloss]

Absolutely. That's why I'm asking you these questions.

[Matt Bellamy]

I mean, we have a film playing.

[John Sloss]

This afternoon that is a commercial scripted classic Sundance independent film like Chase.

[Matt Bellamy]

That's Chasing Summer. Yeah. With Eliza Schlesenberg, Schlesinger and Lola.

[John Sloss]

Then the woman and the lead from the Summer I Turned Pretty.

[Matt Bellamy]

Okay, so is that a cue to Amazon? If you're listening out there, Amazon, Yeah. If I asked all the acquisition executives, what would they complain about you the most?

[John Sloss]

That I'm not in a hurry to sell a film.

[Matt Bellamy]

I mean, isn't that the biggest change in recent years?

[John Sloss]

It's been a big change.

[Matt Bellamy]

There's none of these all night.

[John Sloss]

Bidding wars I sort of cheekily attributed to the fact that we've all gotten older and we want to get our sleep. But yeah, I kind of miss those days with the all night bidding wars.

[Matt Bellamy]

But why is that not the case anymore?

[John Sloss]

Because I think we are getting older. And because it's become in some ways a buyer's market more than a seller's market. And the buyers benefit from elongating things because they get to see all the films on offer. They let the heat die down. I mean, there's a double benefit to them to draw this out. And it's our job to try and create some urgency. Right.

[Matt Bellamy]

How do you do that?

[John Sloss]

There are various ways to do it. You know, you have to tell us. Wait, you want me to give away my trade secrets? My competitors might be listening.

[Matt Bellamy]

I know some of them, like, you put the buyers in different rooms and you make them make their pitches and you don't let them know who's going to.

[John Sloss]

I mean, one way to do it is say this is in play. It could go down tonight. You say that and then people, it gets their attention.

[Matt Bellamy]

But then they text each other and.

[John Sloss]

They'Re like, they don't share information as much as you think, okay, there's such a thing as antitrust.

[Matt Bellamy]

Come on, we're going to get a.

[John Sloss]

Justice department on this.

[Matt Bellamy]

There's no such thing. These are often companies that are not like in cahoots with each other. They're just sharing information. Why not? We're buying a movie that happens less than you think. I actually believe it, but it just seems like with these streamers in play and their ability to drop whatever they need, it would seem like the all night bidding war would, would be a thing still. And it's not. Is it just that deals take longer now?

[John Sloss]

Certainly the invite could have sparked an all night bidding war. If that's.

[Matt Bellamy]

No, it did. My sources say it was. I mean, this was not the night after the premiere, but on Sunday night they had all the bidders line up and say, tell us your pitch.

[John Sloss]

Well, there you go. So the all night bidding, where they just, they just delayed it by a day. Yeah.

[Matt Bellamy]

You're declaring that the bidding wars are back?

[John Sloss]

Yes, absolutely.

[Matt Bellamy]

So back to the complaints about you.

[John Sloss]

I can be somewhat opaque and we don't orchestrate auctions. We have a more nuanced, strategic way of doing things.

[Matt Bellamy]

But it's the same 10 people that you're negotiating against all the time, so you really can't them over.

[John Sloss]

Yeah, but that's actually not true. And I Don't fuck them over. But also.

[Matt Bellamy]

Wait, wait. It's not true that you can't.

[John Sloss]

You can fuck them over.

[Matt Bellamy]

You can fuck them over.

[John Sloss]

Because. Because it's not about me. It's about the films. And if I. And if I do something, I mean, I don't consider myself unscrupulous. Unscrupulous. I consider myself strategic.

[Matt Bellamy]

Okay, but if you say to Focus Features, you know what, searchlight is at 5 million, are you going to go to 6? And then they later find out that Searchlight was never even bidding.

[John Sloss]

We don't. We don't do that. That I consider unprofessional.

[Matt Bellamy]

Okay.

[John Sloss]

We can tell them.

[Matt Bellamy]

There is a line.

[John Sloss]

We can tell them where we think the market is or where it'll be.

[Matt Bellamy]

Sure.

[John Sloss]

But you know, there's even.

[Matt Bellamy]

That there's no market.

[John Sloss]

There's no art in saying, oh, he's at 5 million. Do you want 5? 5? Do I have 5? 6? Do I have 5?

[Matt Bellamy]

6,? No. I get that it's not a literal auction.

[John Sloss]

No.

[Matt Bellamy]

Yeah, but if there's a perception that the market is at a certain level where it is not, and the buyer finds out about that, that's not great.

[John Sloss]

I mean, perception is in the eye of the perceived.

[Matt Bellamy]

And it's his own fault if he gets fooled by that.

[John Sloss]

But, yeah, we don't lie. And I don't know that. I don't know sellers who do, frankly.

[Matt Bellamy]

That's the headlines from this John Sloss. We don't lie. We don't lie. Trust me. Yeah, trust me. We don't lie. I'm an honest man.

[John Sloss]

So they complain about us. We really try to listen to the people we represent and understand what their agenda is. And in more cases than not, we don't make it about who pays the most money. It's a more nuanced process and they really have to do the homework and they have to talk about a vision for marketing the film. And that's frustrating to some.

[Matt Bellamy]

Yeah.

[John Sloss]

I just want to say it's always a pleasure to see you. And I thought the dinner we did was great.

[Matt Bellamy]

Yeah, our dinner last night was off the record, but it was very fun to hear the top buyers from the past 30 years talking about the stories that mattered to them and the films that mattered to them.

[John Sloss]

And you can tell there's a lot of warmth in that room.

[Matt Bellamy]

And it was off the record, so we can't tell those stories. But would you like to tell a ridiculous and fun story that. That you were involved in? Not the Little Miss Sunshine story. I've heard that a million times.

[John Sloss]

Well, Precious was a film that nobody figured out how to market until Tyler Perry and Oprah Winfrey got behind it. It won the audience award and the grand jury prize. And right after that event, I got in a car that night and drove to Las Vegas just to get out of Dodge. Oh. Just for fun. I just needed it because, you know, this is hard work. And Harvey found out I was there and saddled up his private jet, got David Glasser and his friends on it with him, and found me in Las Vegas, where I was staying, and, like, cleared out the bar at the Green Valley Ranch. And it was basically just him and me sitting there at 2 in the morning.

[Matt Bellamy]

What is your look when you see Harvey Weinstein coming into the bar? Did you know he was coming?

[John Sloss]

Someone tipped me off to the fact that he found out where I was.

[Matt Bellamy]

So he comes in and he says, I need this film.

[John Sloss]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Matt Bellamy]

But he didn't ultimately get it.

[John Sloss]

No, he didn't.

[Matt Bellamy]

And so how did that go?

[John Sloss]

It didn't go very well.

[Matt Bellamy]

No, you were on the receiving end of a Harvey Tyree?

[John Sloss]

Yeah, I was. I was the shock absorber on that one.

[Matt Bellamy]

Okay. My favorite Harvey thing was when he would say that he was going to buy. He would say he was going to buy the Hollywood Reporter to fire me.

[John Sloss]

Well, my initiation to Harvey was when I was selling City of Hope, a John Sayles film, and we decided to sell it to Goldwyn, to Tom Rothman, who was there at the time. Harvey. I knew where Harvey was. And I thought the decent thing to do would be to go find him and tell him in person. And I told him in person. I said, harvey, we're going another. We're going with Goldwood and not you. And he literally spun around. He said, I'm going to kill you, and I'm going to release a film the same day. I'm going to bury your fucking film. I'm like, ugh, I'm totally rattled.

[Matt Bellamy]

He really didn't kill you, but did he release a film?

[John Sloss]

I'm totally rattled. I leave there and I go, maybe I got in the wrong line of work. And within about 25 minutes, I realized that he had probably had that same or similar conversation with about 30 people that day and probably woke up the next day with no recollection of it. And sure enough, the next day, I got a bottle of Dom Perignon at the office with a note from Harvey saying, I apologize, which I note, I still have.

[Matt Bellamy]

Oh, wow.

[John Sloss]

And no. So. So that's I never got the. He didn't release it. You didn't?

[Matt Bellamy]

No, I never got the. I got the. I'm going to buy the Hollywood Reporter to fire you. I'm going to. I'm going to destroy you. You will never work. I know everybody. You know the standard. Like, I will destroy you.

[John Sloss]

And how did that make you feel?

[Matt Bellamy]

Honestly, I didn't care because I knew that he couldn't. In the media, you have power over people like that. Because he doesn't have any impact on what I do. He can withhold scoops or try to get people to not talk to me, but that's so low on the priority list. And I didn't care about getting scoops on Weinstein films, so whatever. I mean.

[John Sloss]

Well, the equivalent for me is that I knew that the next time I had something he wanted, he would be in the same position again doing the same thing. Exactly.

[Matt Bellamy]

All right, thank you, John Sloss.

[John Sloss]

Thank you, Matt Bellamy.

[Matt Bellamy]

We are back with the call sheet. Craig 1 to 10, your excitement level for the Melania Trump documentary. Melania.

[Craig]

I think I'm going to watch it.

[Matt Bellamy]

You are?

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Matt Bellamy]

You're not in a theater, though.

[John Sloss]

Not in theater.

[Matt Bellamy]

You're going to wait till it comes to prime.

[Craig]

You're going to watch it, too.

[Matt Bellamy]

I might watch it.

[Craig]

You have to watch it. It's your job to watch it.

[Matt Bellamy]

I am not going to be going to a theater. And unfortunately, I was not invited to the gala Trump Kennedy center premiere that is happening on Thursday night. So I will not be seeing it in a movie theater.

[Craig]

Well, and there was a private White House screening that involved Tim Cook, Mike Tyson, the Queen of Jordan, you know, the CEO of Zoom.

[Matt Bellamy]

Normal people that go to normal movie premieres. The Queen of Jordan and Tony Robbins.

[John Sloss]

Yeah.

[Matt Bellamy]

Embarrassing for everyone. Yeah. Not. Not great. That the President's wife's vanity documentary that Amazon paid $40 million in blood money for is premiering as the country seems to be devolving into chaos. But we are not a political podcast. We are an entertainment business podcast.

[Craig]

And this doc is actually tracking relatively well.

[Matt Bellamy]

It is. I mean, for a documentary. I wrote about this in my Puck newsletter. Like, for a documentary, the NRG tracking is like 5 million for the weekend, which this would be the biggest non concert film documentary opening since COVID The caveat here is that Amazon is spending $35 million in P& a spend. That's the marketing and distribution spend on this movie. So it's not really opening like a traditional documentary. It's got a much bigger boost. They're running, like, ads during football, and they're doing a sphere takeover and all of these different things to draw attention. And Trump obviously is promoting it himself. So this is a real wild card. We're going to do early tracking on this one. Just because I feel like it's what people are talking about. I'm going to shockingly take the over on 5 million. You just barfed a little in your mouth.

[Craig]

We're in such a bizarre time. I know that's very disappointing. But I also understand, I guess, the appeal.

[Matt Bellamy]

Yeah. I mean, it's going up against the Rachel McAdams movie Send Help and a couple others. There's a YouTuber's movie, Iron Lung, that might open bigger than this, but the pre sales are pretty strictly down party lines. If you look at if it's a red county, the tickets are selling. If it's a blue county, they're not. People are booing the trailer in LA and New York. Like, this is gonna be one of those where if people show up in the areas that. Where they love Trump, then it could get to that number.

[John Sloss]

Yeah.

[Craig]

And the movie details the 20 days leading up to the 2025 inauguration.

[John Sloss]

Yes.

[Matt Bellamy]

Brett Ratner given exclusive access to this footage he taped while they were preparing for the inauguration. And, you know, there's a whole backstory on how Ratner got involved in this. We don't need to get into that here. This is his comeback vehicle. He used it, you know, to get in good with Trump. And then Trump pressured Paramount, and Paramount is now going to Release Rush Hour 4, which is what they needed to get the financing for that movie. So Brett Ratner, big, big boost here. But critics are not being given this movie in advance. I know that will shock you. So we're going to have to wait until Thursday to have a real critical assessment of the Melania Trump vanity doc.

[Craig]

You know what?

[John Sloss]

I'm not going to watch it.

[Matt Bellamy]

No, you just decided.

[Craig]

Yeah, clips.

[Matt Bellamy]

Oh, clips only.

[Craig]

Yeah, it's a clips watch.

[Matt Bellamy]

Okay. Yeah, that's probably true. I mean, if people say it's like, historically bad and funny how bad it.

[Craig]

Is, there's a morbid curiosity, like watching a car crash element to it, but I actually don't think I want to.

[John Sloss]

Give it a view.

[Matt Bellamy]

Okay. If you can watch it ironically and maybe create a drinking game out of it, I might be watching it. So we'll see.

[Craig]

Maybe we'll do a live watch drinking game on the show.

[Matt Bellamy]

We should. And we can review it in real time. All right, that's the show for today. I want to thank my guest John Sloss, producer Greg Horbeck, artist Jesse Lopez and I want to thank you. We'll see you a couple more times this week. This episode is brought to you by Disney. Marvel's got something new up their sleeve. A Hollywood superhero series. Wait for it. About making a Hollywood superhero film. This new Wonder man has some serious surprises in store. It's about Von Kovac, an award winning director coming out of retirement, promising to redefine the genre. While Simon Williams, an aspiring actor with secret superpowers, goes after his dream role as Wonder man with the help of his mentor, Trevor Slattery. Starring Emmy winner Yahya Abdul Mateen II and Oscar winner Ben Kingsley. Don't miss Marvel Television's Wonder man, streaming January 27th at 6pm PT only on Disney.