Podcast Summary: The Town with Matthew Belloni

Episode: The 2025 Movie Franchise Draft

Date: November 3, 2025
Guests: Lucas Shaw (Bloomberg), Craig Horlbeck (Producer)
Host: Matthew Belloni (Puck/The Ringer)

Overview

In this engaging and competitive episode, Matthew Belloni and Lucas Shaw face off in a draft to select the five most valuable movie franchises—and one TV franchise—they would choose to build a studio for the next decade. With a running commentary from producer Craig, the three dissect Hollywood’s post-pandemic franchise landscape, debate the longevity and commercial appeal of properties old and new, highlight changing tastes, and speculate about IPs poised for future dominance. The episode also explores the shifting nature of franchises, risk factors, and the definition of franchise endurance in Hollywood’s evolving ecosystem.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Rules and Structure of the Franchise Draft (04:05–05:30)

• Each participant selects five movie franchises, with a cap of two animated franchises each.
• Franchises must be granular (e.g., pick "Spider-Man," not "Marvel").
• Each selects one TV franchise as well.
• Purpose: to forecast which properties would be most lucrative and sustainable over the next 10 years.

2. Current State of Hollywood Franchises (00:51–04:44)

• Hollywood relies heavily on repeatable franchises, but "franchise fatigue" is a growing concern.
• Former sure-bets like Marvel and Jurassic World are waning, while new IPs and genres (including video game and anime adaptations) are ascending.
• Animated and video game franchises look particularly strong due to generational audience shifts.

3. The Franchise Draft – Picks and Rationale

First Round Picks

• Matt: Spider-Man (06:25–07:47)
  • "There will never be anything like Spider-Man... the interest will never go away." (07:08, Belloni)
  • Emphasizes global appeal, endless merchandising, and Sony’s incentive to keep producing films.
• Lucas: Despicable Me/Minions (07:47–08:31)
  • Stresses consistent box office performance and cross-generational appeal.
  • Defends pick against Matt’s skepticism regarding franchise age.

Second Round

• Matt: Avatar (08:45–10:43)
  • Bets on forthcoming sequels; acknowledges reliance on James Cameron but sees massive financial upside.
  • "Even if Avatar declines, it’s still bigger than anything else." (10:34, Belloni)
• Lucas: James Bond (11:36–13:26)
  • Chosen for its continued reinvention over six decades and pent-up demand.
  • Lucas trusts the Broccoli family and directors, not Amazon, to keep Bond relevant.
  • "Bond could keep going for the next 30 years." (13:26, Lucas)

Third Round

• Matt: Super Mario Bros. (14:08–15:31)
  • Sees near-guaranteed billion-dollar sequels and endless spinoff potential.
  • "It’s as close to a guaranteed billion dollars as you can get." (14:46, Belloni)
• Lucas: Demon Slayer (15:37–17:53)
  • Picks based on the rise of anime globally and Demon Slayer’s box office track record.
  • "If you want to bet on the future of anime, this is the best way to do it." (17:41, Lucas)

Fourth Round

• Matt: Minecraft (18:06–19:16)
  • Acknowledges initial skepticism; now views Minecraft as a new, multi-sequel family franchise.
• Lucas: Batman (21:35–22:49)
  • “There will always be Batman movies.” (21:59, Belloni)
  • Cites Batman’s perennial popularity, diversity of villains, and DC’s reboot potential.

Fifth Round

• Matt: K Pop Demon Hunters (24:16–25:55)
  • Sees potential as Netflix’s first major animated franchise, with immediate kid and music appeal.
  • Risk: Netflix has no big-screen track record or theatrical box office.
• Lucas: Star Wars: Skywalker Saga (31:35–32:03)
  • After debate about franchise eligibility, Lucas picks the core Skywalker films for their prospective longevity and built-in fanbase.

4. TV Franchise Picks (32:08–34:59)

• Lucas: Harry Potter series (32:13–33:01)
  • Believes HBO’s serialized adaptation will be "huge" and claims deep multi-generational loyalty.
• Matt: Yellowstone Extended Universe (33:07–34:59)
  • “When you pick Yellowstone, you get all the spinoffs, you get the factory.”
  • Emphasizes the ongoing value via numerous connected shows and prequels.
  • Craig clarifies only Dutton-family-related spinoffs count.

5. Notable Franchise Snubs & Draft Debates (36:31–38:39)

• Frozen, Superman, Barbie, Marvel's Avengers, X-Men, Shrek, Mission: Impossible, Fast and Furious, Lord of the Rings, Pirates of the Caribbean, and Toy Story are notably left undrafted.
• Discussion about why these were passed over: creative fatigue, key-man risk, poor execution, or lack of future potential.
• Matt on Barbie: “We would have picked Barbie a year or two ago.” (37:07)
• Lucas on Superman: “It’s a boring franchise. It’s so much worse than Batman.” (23:52)

6. Reflections and Closing Thoughts

• Craig and the hosts agree Matt’s team likely wins for immediate commercial appeal, but Lucas’s picks could be future-proof: “Matt's team has larger brand names, and Lucas is trying to skate where the puck is going.” (36:31, Craig)
• Matt: “This is a frivolous exercise!” (36:50, Lucas, laughing)
• Brief riff on the lack of star-driven franchises like Mission Impossible.

Notable Quotes

• "There will never be anything like Spider-Man. The interest in Spider-Man... will never go away." — Matt Belloni (07:08)
• "Taking Avatar is basically taking Jim Cameron." — Lucas Shaw (09:17)
• "My case for James Bond would be that over the last 60 years it has never gone out of style." — Lucas Shaw (12:16)
• "Demon Slayer... if you are, if you want to bet on the future of anime, this is the best way to do it." — Lucas Shaw (17:41)
• “There will always be Batman movies.” — Matt Belloni (21:59)
• "When you pick Yellowstone, you get all the spinoffs, you get the Factory." — Matt Belloni (33:10)
• “It’s a boring franchise. It’s so much worse than Batman.” — Lucas Shaw, on Superman (23:52)

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Timestamp | |-----------------------------------------------|--------------| | Franchise fatigue intro & post-COVID landscape| 00:51–04:44 | | Rules overview and draft structure | 04:05–05:30 | | Spider-Man as the #1 pick | 06:25–07:47 | | Despicable Me/Minions arguments | 07:47–08:31 | | Avatar debate | 08:45–10:43 | | James Bond’s enduring appeal | 11:36–13:26 | | Super Mario Bros. as an up-and-comer | 14:08–15:31 | | Rise of anime and Demon Slayer pick | 15:37–17:53 | | Minecraft’s franchise potential | 18:06–19:16 | | Batman’s resilience | 21:35–22:49 | | Netflix’s gamble: K Pop Demon Hunters | 24:16–25:55 | | Star Wars split debate, Skywalker chosen | 31:35–32:03 | | TV picks: Harry Potter vs. Yellowstone | 32:08–34:59 | | Franchise snubs & honorable mentions | 36:31–38:39 |

Final Franchise Lineups

Team Matt

• Spider-Man
• Avatar
• Super Mario Bros.
• Minecraft
• K Pop Demon Hunters
• TV: Yellowstone Extended Universe

Team Lucas

• Despicable Me/Minions
• James Bond
• Demon Slayer
• Batman
• Star Wars Skywalker Saga
• TV: Harry Potter

Recap and Social Media Poll

Craig summarizes:

"Matt's team has more commercial appeal and, like, voting on social media... larger brand names; Lucas is trying to kind of skate where the puck is going." (36:31)

The episode closes with playful banter about which team would win, the evolution of franchises, and a nod to the unpredictable future of Hollywood IPs.