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This episode of the Town is brought to you by Netflix. Presenting a House of Dynamite from Kathryn Bigelow, the Academy Award winning director of the Hurt Locker and Zero Dark Thirty. When a single unattributed missile is launched at the United States, a race begins to determine who is responsible and how to respond. Starring Idris Elba and Rebecca Ferguson. Now a New York Times critics pick. Deadline raves. It's one hell of a motion picture achievement. Now playing on Netflix for your awards consideration.
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An AMC original series.
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You're spy? No.
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B
CIA. MI6.
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Who are you? Talamaska.
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A gritty new spy thriller.
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Our Order keeps tabs on the supernatural.
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Where otherworldly secrets emerge from the shadows.
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We watched and we're always there.
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The Secret Order all new Sundays Stream now on AMC. It is Monday, November 3rd. Two of the most dreaded words in Hollywood are franchise fatigue. The modern movie business and increasingly tv is built on repeatable franchises, properties that the audience knows and they can come back for year after year, over and over. But lately, there have been major signs that audiences are kind of getting sick of what Hollywood has been peddling over and over. Everything from the decline of Marvel movies and other superhero properties to IP failures this year like the third TR movie and the fifth Karate Kid movie and recent horror misfires like Megan 2.0 and the Exorcist debacle. The hierarchy of franchises seems to be remaking itself post Covid. Even established and reliable franchises like Jurassic World and John Wick, they've been showing their age a bit and they're being replaced by new franchises. Not as many of them, of course, but there are new ones. So if you were starting a studio today and money was no object, David Ellison, which franchises would you bet on? That's what we're doing today with Lucas Shaw from Bloomberg. We've done IP drafts in the past. This one is slightly different. We're picking individual properties. So you can't pick Marvel, you can't pick dc. You need to pick franchises like Spider man or Batman. You can't pick people. So no Chris Nolan, no Greta Gerwig, only things they create or things that already exist. Your top five movie franchises. And then we'll also pick one TV franchise to round out our teams. And we're going to let listeners vote on social media to see whose team is better. And yes, there will be no prize for the winner. Today, it's the 2025 franchise draft from the Ringer and Puck. I'm Matt Bellony and this is the town. Okay, we are here with Lucas Shaw from Bloomberg. And we're going to do another draft. It's been a while. First of all, we're taping this on Halloween. Craig, how is your Bob Ferguson costume coming along?
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C
Very slowly, but I.
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A
You have the robe.
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C
The robe is easily attainable or something similar.
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A
Leo from One Battle After Another.
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C
It's the glasses that are tricky. I have to find the glasses.
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A
Yes, it's the.
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B
So it's just the new excuse after the Big Lebowski to wear a bathrobe on Halloween.
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C
It's the lazy millennial Halloween costume. It's the best one of the past, like, 10 years.
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A
It's pretty good. It's pretty good. And I just wish you had longer hair so you could do the man bun thing.
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C
I know, I know.
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B
One battle after another. Eked out now over 200 million worldwide.
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A
Oh, is that true?
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B
I don't know. That's what I. That's what box office mojo says. But that's not what I thought I was getting from Warner Brothers on the emails. So I have to look.
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A
Yeah, I'll probably get to 200. But that's not, I mean, we're not going to get off on a one battle after another rant here. But that's not enough. That's not enough for a movie that costs, you know, 140, 150.
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C
Yeah, but it's probably going to get 10 Oscar nominations, so I think it probably is fine.
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A
And they will gladly take those. All right. One thing that One Battle After Another is not. Is a franchise. Pretty hard to imagine a sequel there. Lucas, do you understand the rules for this draft?
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B
I think so. I, I, I only asked Craig, like, 75 questions.
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A
Yeah, we had a very robust text chain about this. There are a lot of caveats to this franchise draft we're going to go through. And, you know, you cannot pick things that are larger than one property. Like, you can't just pick all Marvel. You have to pick individual franchises within Marvel.
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C
Yes. You can take Super Mario Bros. You cannot take Nintendo.
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A
Exactly. Thank you.
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B
You can take Despicable Me Not Illumination.
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C
Correct.
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B
You could take. Not that I would do it, an individual Blumhouse movie, but you cannot take all of Blumhouse.
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A
Exactly. And that distinguishes it here. And I think it makes it more difficult and more interesting, and it's going to illuminate, I think, where we are in the franchise game, which obviously is the entire game in movies. And we're going to pick one. So we do five. Five movies and then one TV franchise. And the rule Craig instituted this Rule. It's a little controversial. We can only have two animated franchises.
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C
Yeah. I wanted to showcase how difficult to spot live action franchises are in right now and how it's kind of a transition period because I think if we allowed it, most of these picks would be animated.
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B
And we're basically saying next. You know, this is like next 10 years.
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A
Yeah. If you were building your starting five with a alternate, who would you pick? Money is no object.
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B
Right.
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A
All right, so we're going to start with a trivia question. Craig, do you have a trivia question teed up?
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C
I do. Speaking of franchises, how many James Bond films have been released, including the non eon ones? There's two of those.
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A
Go 1, 2, 3, and then we'll both scream our number.
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B
Yeah, I'm going to lose this 1.
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C
But 3, 2, 1.
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A
27.
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C
If you include the Eon. The non Eon films, it is 27. But with the.
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B
I actually did know the number. I just didn't.
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A
I only know this because they don't name the Bond movies until the last minute. So throughout production, it's always referred to as Bond 25. Bond. You know, so this last one, no Time to die was bond 25.
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C
Well, it was bond 27, right?
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A
No, they don't acknowledge.
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C
Oh, they don't acknowledge the non.
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A
Yes, exactly. So I had to do some math there.
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C
Okay, well, congrats to Matt. You won first pick. I'll let you guys go.
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A
I am going to start with the most powerful franchise in Hollywood that others. You can say that it's on the downswing. You can say superheroes are in trouble. There will never be anything like. Like Spider Man.
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B
Yeah, that was the obvious first choice.
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A
It is the number.
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B
I was a little bummed that you got to go first because I did want Spider man.
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A
But I mean, just. We don't even have to go through the numbers. I mean, the last one did what, 2.4 billion. They're doing another live action. We. We haven't really addressed whether this includes the Spider verse movies. Is that a separate.
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B
I think it. I think it includes it.
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A
Okay. My. I'll take it. I'll take them.
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B
I don't. Yeah, that was that. That would be the argument for it because otherwise you're only getting one movie every like three or four years.
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A
No, but you will get them forever. Yeah. I mean, Spider man is never going away. The interest in Spider Man. I just came from my kids Halloween parade. The number of spider mans cruising around at his parade is extraordinary considering like what two years ago was the last movie, it's just. It will never. It is something about that character appeals to globally, to everybody, and it will never go away. It's hilarious that it's like the main asset of Sony Pictures and they. And that's the other thing is they have to make a movie every few years in order to keep the rights. So they are going to keep making them.
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B
Yeah, I will take. Because I just think it. It continues to be a machine that churns. I'll take the Despicable Me Minions.
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A
Oh, see, I. Okay, number one, you're taking that. Yeah. After four Despicable Me's and two Minions movies, you are choosing that one. You don't think that's a little long in the tooth?
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B
I don't.
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A
Give me evidence.
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B
The evidence is that all of them do well.
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A
They do well. But this last one did not do as well as the previous.
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B
I think that had come hot on the heels of the previous Minions, like going viral and doing crazy. I have a lot of confidence in that franchise. I'm not worried about it.
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A
You do okay. And you don't think that Melodandri will be, you know, focused elsewhere.
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B
I mean, this is why I debated doing another live action. Because there's another animated franchise that he's involved in that I think is every.
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A
Bit as big, which I'm about to pick.
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B
But you're about to pick, and that's totally fine.
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A
No, you know what?
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C
You know what?
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A
I'm going to mix it up. My second pick is going to be Avatar. Okay. Only because we know that there are three movies coming. One this December and then two more.
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B
The argument against Avatar for me is a simple one, which is that those movies don't exist without Jim Cameron. So it's like it's a great pick for the next seven to eight years, but it doesn't exist beyond that.
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A
You don't think so movies that have that gross $2 billion?
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B
I think you can. I just don't think it matters without the guy who makes them.
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A
Yeah.
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B
Taking Avatar is basically taking Jim Cameron.
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A
Not necessarily. I mean, he's saying he's doing other stuff. He's doing that World War II movie and he's already talking about possibly not directing one of the next ones. So that would be a baton pass, potentially.
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C
The franchise, though. I feel like the making of those movies is such a heavy lift. You can't really continue that without him. I feel like.
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B
I agree.
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A
Maybe now, maybe technology will make it a little easier. I don't know. Craig's whole thing is that the Avatar movies don't have cultural relevance, which I get. People see them and then they forget about them, which is fine, but they keep coming back and it's considered a thrill ride. And I am not doubting that franchise one bit. I think Disney's a little nervous because the second one came what, 12 years after the first one. So there was a lot of pent up demand. And then this one is coming three.
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B
Years potentially overexploiting it. There's not going to be the same level of interest. It'll obviously do well. It's just like if it goes down another $500 million, what do you. What is the next one after that do? And by the end of it it's just basically dead.
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A
Dead. Grossing $1 billion is dead?
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B
No, no. If it keeps going by the fifth one. I'm just saying.
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A
Yeah, but. But the Last1 did 2.3, so even a decline is still the biggest movie of the year by far. Yeah.
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B
I think I, I think I'm regretting my pick and. Because I, I flipped my animated at the last minute. No, not because of Avatar. I think I wish I took Super Mario Brothers over Despicable Me and Minions.
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A
So you're not going to fight me on Avatar? You think that's a smart pick?
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B
I think it, I'm fine with it. I wouldn't pick it. I had, I had it on my list.
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A
But I hate money. You just, you just dislike money.
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B
I think I had it in the like number six range.
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A
Okay. Coming to the parks in Anaheim as well.
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B
I don't think it has long term potential.
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A
It is true. You know how many Na' Vi I saw at my kids parade today for Halloween? 00. That's true. Which is, you know the, the bar now is where the kids dress up.
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B
I'm. You're going to. You're going to be weirded. You're going to shit on my next pick. I'm going to seed that your next pick can be Super Mario Brothers because I have a different animated franchise I want to do.
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A
Oh please do.
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B
I'm going to take Bond.
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A
James Bond. Yeah.
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B
I have a lot of confidence in the franchise. I think there's pent up demand for.
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A
You have a lot of confidence in Amazon.com to make a great James Bond movie.
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B
I have no confidence in Amazon.com, but I have a lot of confidence in the producers and the directors that they've hired.
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A
Okay. And that. And you think that this will be the start of a full, full on Bond explosion movie. Every two years. TV shows, consumer products, theme parks, the whole thing.
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B
We're talking about long term franchise. You, you. Your case for Spider man is that over the last 20 years it has never gone out of style, right?
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A
Yes.
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B
My case for James Bond would be that over the last 60 years it has never gone out of style.
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A
Yeah, well, it's age.
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B
It's age.
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A
The audience for Bond is much older now.
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B
Yeah. But it has remained. You put out a Bond movie and it makes 600 to 800 million at the box office every time. And if you can actually get one out there every couple years, every three years now that it's fully controlled by one company, I have a lot of confidence in it.
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A
Interesting. I think there's a lot of risk variables here. The casting, I think the execution. Denis is a great director, excited to see his Bond movie. But maybe it's commercial, maybe it's not. Maybe the Broccoli's were onto something and they knew what they were doing.
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B
Even if it's, even if it's not. Even if it doesn't do everything they want. You think Amazon is going to give up? They, at this point they basically bought MGM for James Bond and so Yeah, I have.
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A
They could also buy it and ruin it. They could do a dumb reality show. Tv. They actually, they did do a reality show but they could do a dumb TV thing that cheapens it. There's a lot of ways that Amazon could say we need a full court press on this franchise and blow it.
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B
They could, yeah. Look, it's risk. We're having fun with franchise. You're asking me if I want to. Which franchises I want to collect in my stable. I would take Bond over Avatar. I think Avatar has an eight year shelf life. Bond could, can keep going for the next 30.
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A
So you're in the Jacob Elordi as Bond camp.
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B
You believe that nobody's been cast?
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A
No, I know it's all nonsense. Like don't believe what you read in the Daily Mail. I, I much more believe Sydney Sweeney will be a Bond girl than I believe Jacob Elordi will be Bond. Yeah, she seems like she'd be game for that.
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B
Why not?
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A
Exactly.
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B
Why not? They just need to give her a meaty role so that, you know, people don't only think of her for how she looks.
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A
True. All right, so my next one, I'm gonna go with Mario.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Super Mario Brothers sequel is coming. It's a fresh franchise, appeals to all ages, but kids think it's cool. There's potentials for spinoffs like Donkey Kong, Princess Peach, all of which would be in the Mario world. I'm not counting Zelda, I'm not counting any of the other Nintendo games. Those are separate franchises. But anything coming out of Super Mario Brothers I think could be a viable film. They've got illumination on it. And the next one is as close to a guaranteed billion dollars as you can get.
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B
The frame. The spin offs are why I regret I actually had Super Mario is higher and then I flipped it and overthought it. But because I think the second one will probably regress from the first one. The first one was a good, not great movie that I feel like benefited from so much enthusiasm for Mario.
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A
Oh, you think the second one's going to decline?
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B
I think so.
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A
I think the opposite. I think people love the first one and it had the Peaches song and I think they're going to flock to the second one. I think it's going to be bigger.
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B
Could be right.
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A
Unless it really sucks. It's like got a gal. It's called the Super Mario Galaxy movie.
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B
Yeah.
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A
But yeah, I think, I think Super.
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B
Mario Brothers is the best animated franchise going forward. Even as an idiot who picks something else first.
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A
Okay, well, there we go. He said it on the town.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Okay, so let's go with your next one.
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B
My next one, I'm going to take the animated and you're going to say, why are you taking it now? Because you would never touch this. And I'm just having fun with this. I'm taking Demon Slayer.
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A
I had that on my list. Yeah. So give me the argument.
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B
Huge anime franchise, but they're on the fourth movie.
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A
This is the Japanese anime franchise that did well in this country when it played here. But I don't. I mean, do you think it's going to go on forever?
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B
I think it is. It has been a popular franchise for a decade now. And yeah, I think the movie that just came out, I believe was actually. I know you said it's like fourth movie. I believe it is supposed to be the first in a trilogy.
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A
Okay.
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B
And I just, I think anime is getting bigger and bigger and bigger.
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A
Deep insights on the town. Anime is getting bigger. Of course it is. But is it going to be as big as these billion dollar grocers?
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B
What animated franchise is a guaranteed billion dollar grocer for the next 10 years?
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A
Well, nothing is guaranteed. But I would say despicable me. I would say Frozen. I would say Toy Story.
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B
Frozen in Toy Story. This is like me drafting one of those after the first movie.
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A
Yeah, okay. But it's not the first movie, it's the fourth. But you say it's.
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B
But it's the first of a trilogy.
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A
So yeah, there's two Frozen movies coming.
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B
The Demon Slayer movie made almost $900 million at the box office, almost as big as Minecraft. And it has more of a track record than Minecraft because there have been movies and TV shows before it and we know that they're gonna make at least a couple more. So you can, you can scoff at my non. Insight. Insight, but I, I think that anime is one of those genres that as it continues to grow, it will travel better and better and people will figure out how to exploit it. It's got the full muscle of Sony behind it now. And I just, I, I think that's a. If you are, if you want to bet on the future of anime and there being movie franchises, this is the best way to do it.
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A
Okay, I agree. They're going to be big. I just think there's kind of a ceiling. It can't get to that upper, upper echelon of billion dollars. At least not the culture's not quite there yet.
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B
I'm deliberately taking things where the ceiling on each movie is maybe a little bit lower, but the longevity of the franchise is higher. Because if that's what I would want.
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A
As a studio chief, my next pick. Maybe controversial, maybe not. I'm taking Minecraft.
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B
No, that was my next pick.
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A
Oh, okay.
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B
So even though you scoffed at me for taking it in the box office draft this year.
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A
I did, but I've come around. I mean, it did 950 million worldwide.
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B
Yeah.
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A
And it's a real franchise. Like this is the new games and the new superheroes. I'm on board with that. I think that they are going to make many, many sequels to this. They will give it the full LEGO treatment and do a spin off and a sequel. And this speaks to a young generation and I think there's a lot of room to run with this one.
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B
Another one that I think will suffer from the fact that the first movie was not great. And so I question what will happen with the future films.
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A
Wait, you say the Minecraft movie was not great? What? You're not the audience for this? My kid thought it was the greatest thing he'd ever seen.
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B
That's fine. But for those.
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A
Jason Momoa, man, comedy genius.
- [19:10]
B
For those franchises to continue to get bigger, it can't just appeal to your kid.
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A
I know, but I think parents, I think, listen, the appeal of that movie went beyond just little kids. I think families liked it. I think moms like Jason Momoa. Jack Black has a big audience. We've, we've talked about him. Yeah, I, I think they'll bring them all back. They'll all get paid a ton. And this, they could do three of these in five years.
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B
They could. I don't, I, I'm, I'm curious if there's the opportunity to spin it out and do all sorts of different things. Maybe there is, but, but yeah, I, I, it's, I, I, I don't have any issue with the bet. I think it's, it's the, the next one is a sure thing to do. Well, beyond that, you know, we'll see. But you've taken a couple of video game franchises, which I totally get.
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A
This episode is brought to you by Wayfair. Your home is more than a space. It's where you express yourself. Like, we've all got our movie night set up. I definitely do. I've got my chair, I've got my popcorn, I've got my nice drink area. Everything set up perfectly. Whatever your vibe, Wayfair has every style for every home. They've got all your home essentials, storage solutions, decor and more all in one place. I recently got some great stuff from Wayfair. Ordered some nice outdoor furniture. We got a rug that looks nice with the fire pit. We've got some flower stuff goes all around the outdoor barbecue. Very cool. Lots of entertaining this summer, Wayfair. Big part of it. Get inspired with room ideas and easy to shop collections. All with everyday ways to save. Shop everything home@wayfair.com with free and easy delivery straight to your door. That's W-A-Y-F-A-I-R.com Wayfair Every style, every home.
- [20:55]
D
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- [21:34]
A
All right, your next one.
- [21:36]
B
Sticking with the theme of franchises that never die.
- [21:40]
A
Oh, no. Don't do it.
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B
I think I now have to take Batman.
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A
Oh, okay. I thought you were gonna take Jurassic world.
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B
No, no, fuck that.
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A
I mean, the last Jurassic did more than the last Batman.
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B
It did. But Batman has been going now for 40 years. It's the one DC franchise that people show up for basically, no matter what.
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A
Yeah. No, I, I, I'm surprised it's not taken already. Like Batman is Batman there. There will always be Batman movies.
- [22:07]
B
There will, there will always be Batman movies. There are, there will, there are ways there you can do things with the different villains, which obviously have been done, but they work one after the other. And it's just so much more interesting than it's the one. If Spider man is the one Marvel movie that we know that people will show up for over and over again, Batman is the one DC movie and it, similar to Spider man, has already spun off lots of different films and franchises which kind of speak to its enduring appeal. And they haven't even gotten there yet with sort of the reboot of D.C. in part because they had like already started the Batman thing under Matt Reeves. But.
- [22:49]
A
Well, and he takes forever. I mean, that's kind of the problem on the film side is that.
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B
But that's a short term problem.
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A
It is, exactly. They just put all their eggs in this basket. And he's a great filmmaker, but he just takes forever. So they got to sit there and, you know, meanwhile their schedule is languishing because they don't have a Batman movie. But they say 2027.
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B
They say it's on the calendar.
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A
It is officially on the calendar. And I'm sure there'll be more of the Penguin show and I'm sure they'll try to reverse engineer movies off of that. So.
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B
Right. We're not counting the TV shows though, right?
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A
We're not, no. But it's certainly value.
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B
What is your level of optimism in Supergirl next year? Not.
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A
Not high.
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B
You're a Millie Alcock hater.
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A
I'm not, but I. It's execution dependent. Am I going to a Supergirl movie if I don't hear that? It's great? No. Are lots of people. It's not Superman. Everybody gave Superman a chance, and I don't know that they're going to give Supergirl a chance. They just need to be told that it's good. Maybe it'll be good. Interesting. Neither of us pick Superman. Why?
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B
It's a boring franchise. It's so much worse than Batman.
- [23:56]
A
Yeah, but there are already announced movies that are coming. You know, we have a Supergirl movie next year. That counts. That's a spinoff.
- [24:03]
B
Yeah, but this first one for all the fuss and song and dance. It did what all the Superman movies do, which is, like, hit like 600 to $700 million.
- [24:13]
A
Okay, so my final one, I'm going.
- [24:16]
B
To be pissed if you take the one I want to do, but.
- [24:19]
A
So I am going to take this. It's a bit of a flyer because there won't be another movie for a little bit. And I'm going to take K Pop Demon Hunters.
- [24:29]
B
Interesting.
- [24:30]
A
The first Netflix movie franchise. I'm going to take it. I mean, I just think that this is the new Disney juggernaut. Every kid knows this. Every kid knows the songs. They are going to be able to do these movies. The first one, the first sequel will take a few years, but if they're smart, they will plot them out and there will be a ton. I know it suffers because it doesn't get theaters at least now, but I'm gonna. You know, the next K Pop Demon Hunters is going to be instantly the biggest opening week for a Netflix movie ever. So I'm taking it.
- [25:10]
B
I get it.
- [25:10]
A
You get it? You do get it.
- [25:12]
B
No, I mean, I'm a little surprised.
- [25:14]
A
Because I hate Netflix movies.
- [25:16]
B
Yeah. There will be no box office, which is. I know what you use as the metric.
- [25:21]
A
Maybe there will be. Maybe there will be. You never know.
- [25:25]
B
Well, the other.
- [25:26]
A
And we kind of do know there will be box office when they put it in theaters two months after it came out.
- [25:32]
B
And there'll be. I guess I don't think it has a lot of. There's not a lot more you can do with it. I think you're just going to. I know Netflix will push back on that, and they'll have stuff that they put out between now and the second one and whatever. But it feels like one of those things where you can just make the movies every three or four years, and that's kind of it. And there's not a ton to spin out.
- [25:56]
A
Oh, I don't know about that. They could do a tour. I'm kind of shocked they haven't done a little tour.
- [26:00]
B
Oh, I just meant in terms of the film and television prospects. I also do worry a little bit, and I guess this hasn't been true with their TV franchises, but Netflix sometimes has a habit of beating things dead.
- [26:17]
A
Like what? Well, like they haven't had any movie franchises.
- [26:23]
B
Maybe more like they have. And that's why. Maybe it's thrown. But, like, you know, they have a hit with a sports documentary, follow along, and then they make like 12 of them, and then.
- [26:32]
A
Oh, so you think they're gonna make a bunch of knockoffs.
- [26:35]
B
I don't know. No, it's harder for them to make knockoffs of this because they, they don't do a lot of animation in house, so maybe they won't. Maybe that's unfair. I just, you know, Netflix has no experience with the franchise, so, like, they.
- [26:51]
A
Just did a huge Mattel deal. Like, that is apparently a gigantic deal for K Pop Demon Hunters merch. I know they got caught flat footed when the movie came out.
- [27:01]
B
The dolls will come out second quarter.
- [27:02]
A
The upside of that is they got to negotiate these merch deals. A position of strength and saying, this is our number one franchise. What will you pay us for the toy rights?
- [27:12]
B
Right. I, I, look, I get it. It's a flyer.
- [27:16]
A
I have my Craig. Am I allowed to do this?
- [27:18]
C
I, why not? Of course.
- [27:19]
A
I'm shaking things up, man. Well, there's no box office.
- [27:22]
C
Yeah, but you, we're, we are. This experiment is, is as if you are starting your own studio and you can get the K Pop Demon Hunters.
- [27:29]
B
You could put it in theaters.
- [27:30]
C
You can put it in theaters. How much money do you think it would have made in theaters?
- [27:33]
A
Oh, we, we can't have this debate again. I, I mean, I think it would have done well. I think it could have gotten up to like 2,300 million in theaters and maybe more if it, if the music really caught on. I, I've heard people say, no, it would not work at all. They needed this viral.
- [27:49]
B
It's fine. But 2, 300 is not a franchise.
- [27:52]
A
No, it's not. But for Netflix, if they are. You're talking about, you're talking about, like, if, if Netflix had, if this movie had been a Disney movie and they had given it the usual Disney treatment, it could have gotten way more than that. But I'm just saying Netflix, given its lack of skill in theatrical releases, I think they could have gotten a few hundred million out of it just doing a theatrical run before on Netflix.
- [28:18]
B
Yeah. If I could take animation, I actually have two things that don't exist yet. Can I tell you what the two of them are?
- [28:25]
A
Sure.
- [28:26]
B
So the two things that don't exist yet, that I do think will be big, I think the hello Kitty movie could be huge.
- [28:33]
A
No, really, you know how.
- [28:35]
B
The depth.
- [28:36]
A
I know hello Kitty, but again, like execution, that could play very, very young.
- [28:43]
B
Could the other one, which I think, because I think I'm not allowed to take hello Kitty, which is near and dear to your heart because you've been writing about it non stop, is I Do think the Call of Duty movie will probably work.
- [28:53]
A
Okay, but again, what does that mean? Like, is that 200 million, 400 million?
- [29:00]
B
But if you're asking me, as someone starting a studio, do I want to take Jurassic park, which I'm so tired of, or do I want to try something new, I want to try something new.
- [29:10]
A
Call of Duty has no story.
- [29:12]
B
Well, that's why Taylor Sheridan's on it.
- [29:15]
A
Exactly. It's going to be Murdering Cowboys set in a video game shooter world.
- [29:19]
B
All you need is someone to break the story. I'm not. That's not easy.
- [29:22]
A
Okay. All right. I just don't. I would not pick something that has not proven itself yet.
- [29:29]
B
Yeah, I totally get it. I just. I have. I looked at it. I was like, okay, Jurassic World. No, Barbie. Jurassic Just. I get that it's probably the safer bet, but it bores me. Barbie is not really a franchise because you're not going to have the same creative team back. Zelda. I have no confidence in Superman. Boring. Fast and Furious.
- [29:46]
A
We're also not even talking about Star Wars.
- [29:49]
B
Well, because you wouldn't let me take Star Wars.
- [29:51]
A
No, no, no. You can take the Skywalker Saga of Star wars, or you can take the Mandalorian, which is a separate franchise. Or you can take Andor slash Rogue One.
- [30:03]
B
Andor is not a franchise.
- [30:04]
A
That's not a franchise.
- [30:06]
B
And the movie coming out next year is part of the Mandalorian because it's Grogu.
- [30:10]
A
Yes.
- [30:11]
B
And as the keeper of all Star wars secrets, do they even have a Skywalker Saga movie in development?
- [30:18]
A
They do. They have a Rey movie with Daisy Ridley in development. They're also making a separate new Star wars movie with Ryan Gosling playing Last Starfighter or something like that. John Lee, but not part of it.
- [30:30]
B
See, the problem is, I would take Star wars if it was evident which of these.
- [30:34]
A
Yeah, we don't know what. I'm sure, knowing Lucasfilm, there will be Easter eggs in all of these movies that connect back to the original Star wars franchise. But I don't know what is in these movies yet. We just know what. That the Mandalorian movie looks like. More of the Mandalorian.
- [30:53]
B
Right.
- [30:53]
A
And it's Favreau, so I would bet on that.
- [30:56]
B
The question on that is how. How long can you string that out? Right. Are you gonna. Are you gonna have.
- [31:03]
A
If it's a hit, they're definitely doing Mandalorian and Grogu Part 2. They should. They should just keep adding ampersands to each Mandalorian movie. Like the first One is Mandalorian and Grogu, and the second one is like Mandalorian and Grogu and Ahsoka. And then by the end it's like a entertainment law firm where there's 20 names in the title.
- [31:23]
C
It's just called Grogu and Grogu and Grogu and.
- [31:27]
A
And Epstein. Yeah.
- [31:29]
B
Okay, You've talked me into taking Mando and the only thing I don't like about my team now is that I don't have any video game pick, which I would have fixed.
- [31:36]
A
You are now taking Mandalorian or are you taking Star Wars Skywalker Movies? Because you know they're going to do more of those.
- [31:43]
B
I hate that I have to divide these.
- [31:45]
A
Star wars is a world.
- [31:47]
C
If it were 1982 right now, you could probably just pick Star wars, but because it's grown so much, it's become more of. Similar to the Marvel Cinematic Universe.
- [31:56]
A
Exactly. That's. That's what I'm saying.
- [31:59]
B
No, I will take. I will take the. I think I will take the Skywalker Saga.
- [32:04]
C
Okay, so now that we each have five movies now we're gonna go to tv and Lucas gets the first pick in tv.
- [32:09]
B
And you guys know what I'm gonna take just. Cause I'm a believer in it.
- [32:12]
A
Oh, no, I don't.
- [32:13]
B
We talked about it. I'm taking Harry Potter. I think that series is gonna be huge.
- [32:17]
A
Okay, give me the argument.
- [32:19]
B
It's the single most important franchise to anyone under the age of 40.
- [32:23]
A
And it's a TV show that is reimagining with quotes around that. The books that we have already seen dramatized in seven movies. Yeah.
- [32:33]
B
And you know how. How popular those movies were? Do you know how rewatchable those movies are? Do you know how much I get it?
- [32:38]
A
And they'll do interesting HBO things with it.
- [32:41]
B
Yeah.
- [32:42]
A
But okay, they make one season of that, then three years later another season comes out.
- [32:47]
B
No, no, no, no. That's not how it's going to work. It's going to be a factory because they need to get it in while the kids are of age. It's. It's a. It's. They have seven books. They'll turn it into seven seasons and they will have them ready every couple years.
- [33:02]
A
You think so? Yeah. Okay, and you're picking that over my pick, which is. Drumroll. As you know.
- [33:08]
B
Yellowstone. No, because Yellowstone.
- [33:10]
A
Of course it's Yellowstone. Dude, come on. When you pick Yellowstone, you get all the spinoffs, you get all the prequels, you get the Factory. And yes, Taylor Sheridan is Leaving Paramount in three years. But by then there will have been seven Yellowstone or Yellowstone affiliated shows and they're just going to keep going.
- [33:32]
C
Do you get all the spin offs? I don't know if it's fair.
- [33:35]
A
Yes you do. Oh yes you do.
- [33:36]
C
No, because then that just becomes the Taylor Sheridan universe.
- [33:39]
A
You can only.
- [33:39]
B
No, no, no, no, no.
- [33:40]
A
There are Taylor Sheridan shows that are not related to.
- [33:43]
B
You don't get Lioness, you don't get Landman.
- [33:45]
A
No, you get. I'll, I'll list them for you. I know them. You get yellowstone. You get 1883, you get 1923, you get. You get 1944 which is coming. You get Dutton Ranch, which is the new Yellowstone, like pick up where we left off show with two of the main characters. You get the Madison, I believe, which is the Michelle Pfeiffer like Montana set Yellowstone adjacent show. That one's debatable. I don't know. We have to see how closely it's connected to Yellowstone. You get.
- [34:16]
B
I don't know. Do you really get 1883, 1923 and 1944?
- [34:20]
A
Yes, you do get those. It's about the Dutton family. You get why Marshalls, which is the Yellowstone procedural show that's debuting on CBS next year with Luke Grimes, who is a character on Yellowstone. You get all of it.
- [34:36]
C
I agree that if it involves the Dutton family or characters from the original Yellowstone, that counts. But like lioness and stuff like that do not.
- [34:43]
A
Those don't count. But the prequels are earlier generations of the Dutton family.
- [34:49]
B
Yeah.
- [34:49]
A
It seems ridiculous to be talking about.
- [34:51]
C
Like if they make a Harry Potter prequel series, Lucas gets that.
- [34:54]
A
Yeah. If they make a Hermione goes off to a women's college, you get that.
- [34:59]
B
Your main show is done. The creator of the franchise is leaving the company he's at and is going to be more focused on doing other stuff. So yeah, I get it. I just. It wouldn't be my first pick.
- [35:15]
A
What would you have picked if you were me? Ncis.
- [35:19]
B
I debated something like Law and Order. Not because of future value but because I would just get the library for people to watch over and over again. Or NCIS or something like that. Yeah. But I don't know that there's an obvious answer. That's why I took something that doesn't even exist yet.
- [35:33]
A
Yeah. Bridgerton. No, like none of these.
- [35:37]
B
Louis, too much key man risk with the creator.
- [35:41]
A
There's none of these big like 80s and 90s style procedural or big library shows that are new. Really? Like what is a new version of Law and Order or NCIS or Criminal Minds or one of those big shows that had four different versions. They kind of don't do that anymore. Except for Yellowstone. Yeah, I don't know. I'm pretty happy with my Yellowstone pick.
- [36:06]
C
Okay, so let's recap the teams. We have Team Matt. He took Spider Man, Avatar, Super Mario Bros, Minecraft, K Pop, Demon Hunters, and for his TV series, he chose the Yellowstone extended universe. Lucas went with Despicable Me slash Minions, James Bond, Demon Slayer, Batman, the Star Wars Skywalker Saga, and his TV series is Harry Potter.
- [36:30]
A
I'm winning.
- [36:32]
C
I think Matt. Matt's team has more commercial appeal and, like, voting on social media. I think you have larger brand names, and Lucas is trying to kind of skate where the puck is going.
- [36:42]
B
I would. I. If I could just flip the Despicable Me Super Mario Brothers, I would have no issue with my selection.
- [36:48]
A
So you're admitting that you're going to lose? I don't know how we even judge.
- [36:51]
B
I mean, this is. There's no actual metric for this. This is a frivolous exercise. It's.
- [36:55]
A
Oh, don't say that. Don't call this frivolous.
- [36:58]
C
How dare you. What are the biggest snubs? Frozen.
- [37:02]
A
Yeah. Superman. Maybe Barbie. Barbie. We would have picked Barbie a year or two ago.
- [37:07]
B
No, Marvel. No. Disney. Marvel.
- [37:11]
A
True. Yeah, but what are you gonna pick? Iron Man.
- [37:14]
B
You could take Avengers. You could do.
- [37:17]
A
But Avengers. Do you get all the Avengers movies? No, just Avengers.
- [37:21]
B
If you got all the Avengers movies, I would have taken the Avengers.
- [37:24]
C
What about. What about X Men?
- [37:27]
A
Okay. They got to execute. People would have said fantastic Four is going to be great. And that one was like, okay.
- [37:33]
C
The one thing X Men has going for it, though, is that there's a lot of characters under this one franchise umbrella.
- [37:38]
A
True, but they've already made, like, seven movies.
- [37:41]
C
I know, but they're planning a large reboot of this.
- [37:43]
A
Let's see it. Maybe in a. Maybe in a future episode. We'll pick it. But they got to execute on that. The Avengers, like, tying themselves to the Russos. Like, come on. I'm not. I'm not picking that.
- [37:54]
C
It's funny how little of these franchises involve a star. Like, there's no Born. There's no Mission Impossible where it's tied to an actor.
- [38:02]
A
Yeah, a lot of, like, the older franchises that people might have picked a couple years ago. Not on our list. No Mission Impossible. No. Fast and Furious. No. You know, Lord of the Rings, Pirates of the Caribbean. No. Like, you know, none of that. Maybe Shrek Shrek's not a bad pick because they are rebooting that and there's a lot of goodwill for that.
- [38:21]
B
Thought about it.
- [38:23]
A
Yeah, I didn't. That one escaped me. But I think the new Shrek movie is going to be very big. Shrek 5, it'll be.
- [38:29]
B
It's a little like Lilo and Stitch.
- [38:31]
A
Yeah. Well, Toy Story also, they. You know, I think they're just going to keep making Toy Stories forever even though Quentin Tarantino won't watch them.
- [38:39]
B
Yeah.
- [38:40]
A
What do you mean?
- [38:40]
C
Quentin Tarantino loves Toy Story.
- [38:42]
A
No, he said that the first three Toy Stories are the perfect trilogy. So much so that he refused to watch Toy Story 4.
- [38:51]
C
Yeah, he said that Toy Story 3 was one of his favorite movies of the. Of the 2010s.
- [38:55]
A
Yeah, but he. But he said it ended so perfectly that he just won't acknowledge any future Toy Story movies. I respect it. All right, so, Craig, you have not offered your opinion. Who do you think is going to win?
- [39:07]
C
I think Matt is going to win the vote at least. And we'll have to use our proprietary town formula to determine who wins this over the next 10 years, so.
- [39:16]
A
Yeah, but there is no prize. This is not like our box office draft. We're not going to make Lucas take us to a baseball game like he has the past two years.
- [39:23]
C
The prize is you get James Dean's boots from Taylor Sheridan.
- [39:27]
A
Yes. David Zaslav will give you a gift from the Warner Brothers archive of your choice. So you can pick anything you want. A Batsuit, you can get a bat suit. You want James Dean's boots. He will make it happen.
- [39:40]
C
I would take Bob Ferguson's glasses. I need those tonight.
- [39:43]
A
Bring it full circle. Craig would take Bob Ferguson's and Beanie.
- [39:46]
C
But I need those in about five hours.
- [39:49]
A
Lucas, what would you pick from the Warner Brothers library?
- [39:52]
B
No idea. I was doing the math on our box office just for fun.
- [39:57]
A
Oh, you were. And where are we?
- [40:00]
B
I am up by 100 million and I have essentially two movies to go. And you have one.
- [40:07]
A
You have Zootopia, though.
- [40:08]
B
I have Zootopia and Wicked and you have Avatar. And I've already factored in the budget. So basically, do Zootopia and Wicked combined gross within 100 million of Avatar?
- [40:21]
A
That's. This is going to be close.
- [40:23]
B
Interesting. You will probably win, but it's going to be a lot closer than I thought it was going to be at the beginning of the year. If Avatar goes down by more than like 3,400 million, then you're in trouble from the previous one.
- [40:37]
A
All right. I'm pulling for Avatar, man.
- [40:39]
B
You'll know probably by the time it comes out because we'll know how both Zootopia and Wicked did. Because if Wicked actually meets the previous one and Zootopia meets the previous one, then I'm, you know, then it's possible.
- [40:52]
A
All right, Lucas, thank you. Appreciate it. All right. That's the show for today. I want to thank my guest, Lucas Shaw, producer Craig Horobeck, artist Jesse Lopez. And I want to thank you. I'm actually out this week on vacation, so we're going to do one more episode, a mailbag episode, later this week. Week was for that.