The A-List Filmmakers Evangelizing Movie Theaters

Summary

Podcast Summary

Podcast: The Town with Matthew Belloni
Episode: The A-List Filmmakers Evangelizing Movie Theaters
Date: April 8, 2026
Host: Matt Belloni (The Ringer & Puck)
Guest: Michael O’Leary, President & CEO, Cinema United

---

Episode Overview

This episode focuses on the state of the movie theater business ahead of CinemaCon, Hollywood’s annual convention for theater owners. Matt Belloni and guest Michael O’Leary discuss a major new initiative – the formation of a filmmaker-led council to advocate for theaters – and delve into the hopeful box office uptick, threats from studio consolidation, evolving theatrical windows, and the ongoing battle to keep cinemas vital in the streaming era. Key industry players and trends are explored, with O’Leary offering insight into lobbying efforts and the push for a renewed theatrical experience.

---

Key Discussion Points and Insights

CinemaCon Preview & The State of The Box Office

• Box Office Climb: The domestic box office is up 25% over the previous year, signaling optimism but not quite fully back to pre-pandemic levels.
• Industry Mood: Studios and exhibitors are hopeful, but O’Leary cautions that the entertainment system remains in “a state of flux” and systemic adaptations are still necessary.
  • O’Leary: “We’re ecstatic about the state of the box office right now... [but] the entire entertainment system is in a state of flux right now.” (04:08)

---

Launching the Filmmaker Advocacy Council

Announcement: Cinema United forms a new filmmaker council to serve as “global ambassadors for the theatrical experience,” chaired by Jerry Bruckheimer and vice-chaired by Emma Thomas, with other notable members (Ryan Coogler, Brad Bird, Jason Reitman, Celine Song).

• Purpose & Activities:
  • Public advocacy for the value of theatrical, influencing both the industry and legislative environment.
  • Strengthening relationships between filmmakers and exhibitors; exchanging perspectives on improving cinema experiences.
  • Growing the moviegoing audience, especially among young people.
• Types of Engagements: Interviews, speeches, panels, public appearances, letters to media & lawmakers, and social media collaborations.

Notable Quotes:

• O’Leary: “These people... are not just world class creators, they're respected voices throughout the industry. And the things that they say have impact. So this council will effectively serve as kind of global ambassadors for the theatrical experience.” (05:23)
• Belloni: “Ryan Coogler and Jason Reitman... are much better advocates for the theatrical experience, at least publicly, than suits in Washington or elsewhere.” (07:40)

---

The Impact of Filmmaker Influence

• Filmmakers can directly impact studio decision-making on release windows and exhibition deals—e.g., Christopher Nolan's insistence on long theatrical windows, or Ryan Gosling’s statement about who is responsible for making theaters compelling.
• Council members are expected to leverage their personal styles and networks, both publicly and behind the scenes, to advocate for robust theatrical windows and investment.

O’Leary: “Everybody has their own voice. And some people may just pick up the phone and say, hey, you need to pay attention to this... It helps us reach the right people on issues that are super important to the exhibition industry.” (09:14)

---

Windows, Mergers, and Studio Promises

Paramount/Warner Bros. Merger

• Cinema United opposes the merger. O’Leary questions promises (like 30 movies a year in theaters) as unenforceable and cites historical patterns of reduced output after similar consolidations.
• Efforts are underway to educate and lobby regulators for enforceable conditions (e.g., consent decrees) on future mergers.

O’Leary: “We are opposed to the merger. We view the promises of 30 movies in a year with great skepticism... The drop in production which accompanies consolidation... is just not something that's sustainable if it happens again.” (10:40)

Theatrical Windows

• A shift is occurring: after years of post-pandemic “experimentation,” studios like Universal, Disney, and Sony are lengthening windows again (e.g., Sony’s 120-day window for Netflix).
• O’Leary contends both PVOD (premium video-on-demand) and streaming (SVOD) windows affect perception and behavior, but the traditional in-theater-first model remains critical.

O’Leary: “You can't pay your lease, you can't make payroll with promises. We need something more substantial than that.” (12:11)
O’Leary: “There's starting to be a little bit of a recognition that windows are significant, that windows do matter.” (16:51)

---

Streamers as Friends and Foes

Amazon’s Theatrical Commitment

• Amazon’s increased slate (13+ theatrical releases this year) is crucial for exhibitors, especially after a rocky initial slate and recent success (“Mercy”).

O’Leary: “It's incredibly important. You can't really overstate it... They have been consistent... and they've done it.” (14:47)

Apple’s Pullback

• Despite success with “F1,” Apple has no wide theatrical releases on the schedule; exhibitors are cautiously waiting for action, not just talk.

O’Leary: “I have no reason to doubt what they're saying, but we're at a point where ... we need to see that in action.” (15:41)

---

Quality Over Messaging: What Sells at the Box Office?

• The team discusses Roy Price’s argument that “fun” and “less political” movies are succeeding. Both agree diversity and substantive messaging do not hurt—films do well if they’re simply good and entertaining.
• Cinema should serve everyone, from those seeking meaningful dramas to audiences after pure fun.

Belloni: “If the movie's good, people will see it.” (23:47)
O’Leary: “There's something for everyone at the theater, and if you want to go see a compelling political drama, you can do that. Or if you want to go see, you know, something that's just fun... you should be able to do that.” (24:30)

---

The Reinvestment in Theaters

• O’Leary updates on last year’s pledge of $2.3 billion in theater upgrades. As of September 2025, $1.5 billion had already been invested, not just by big chains but also mom-and-pop locations.
• Upgrades focus on screens, sound, projection, seating, food, and concessions—aimed at improving the in-auditorium experience as the main differentiator in bringing audiences back.

O’Leary: “We're bullish about the future, and we're putting money back into our own theaters because we know that consumers want to only going to spend their money if there's an experience worth having.” (26:36)

---

Private Equity and the Moviegoing Future

• Belloni laments closures (such as his childhood theater) and questions why private equity doesn’t flood in, noting access to capital is a key hurdle, compounded by negative industry headlines and struggling stock prices.

O’Leary: “If they're looking at headlines that do nothing but forecast doom and despair, they're going to take a second look.” (28:42)

---

The Role of Technology and Premium Formats

• Investments are mainly going to projection and in-auditorium AV, including PLF (premium large format) and IMAX screens—seen as essential to the differentiating “event” quality of moviegoing.
• But traditional screens also matter, as exhibitors aim to provide a range of experiences for diverse audiences.

O’Leary: “I think it has to go into projection and sound, the in auditorium experience, because... that's the biggest differentiator.” (29:15)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the council’s purpose:
  • “They're not just world class creators, they're respected voices... The things that they say have impact.” – O’Leary (05:23)
• On studio promises:
  • “You can't pay your lease, you can't make payroll with promises.” – O’Leary (12:11)
• On perception and investment:
  • “If they're looking at headlines that do nothing but forecast doom and despair, they're going to take a second look.” – O’Leary (28:42)
• On what matters for exhibitors:
  • “I think ultimately, that's the biggest differentiator.” – O’Leary on the auditorium experience (29:15)
• On diversity and box office performance:
  • “If the movie's good, people will see it.” – Belloni (23:47)

---

Important Timestamps

• [01:01] — CinemaCon preview: state of the box office and new filmmaker council
• [04:08] — O’Leary on industry flux and optimism
• [05:23] — Purpose and membership of the Filmmaker Council announced
• [06:02] — How the council will advocate and bridge filmmakers/exhibitors
• [09:14] — Filmmakers’ behind-the-scenes influence on studios
• [10:40] — Theatrical windows and skepticism about studio merger promises
• [14:47] — Amazon surpasses expectations; importance for theaters
• [15:41] — Apple’s slow theatrical rollout explained
• [18:58] — PVOD vs SVOD window impact on moviegoers discussed
• [24:30] — A balanced approach: both “message” movies and pure fun can thrive
• [26:02] — Update on $2.3 billion theater improvements
• [29:15] — Why focusing on the in-theater experience is critical

---

Final Thoughts

This episode lays out the strategic recalibrations happening in Hollywood’s exhibition sector: rallying superstar filmmakers to the cause, fighting attempts at vertical integration by big studios/streamers, and betting on upgraded moviegoing as the ultimate magnet. While the industry is buoyed by box office rebound, O’Leary stresses the need for permanent, enforceable support from studios and real investments in the moviegoing experience—not mere promises.

Belloni and O’Leary’s discussion is candid, dotted with skepticism about industry trends but grounded in a genuine belief in the communal, irreplaceable magic of the movies. This episode is essential listening for anyone tracking the push-pull between streaming and the silver screen in 2026.

Transcript

[Michael O'Leary]

Foreign.

[Matt Belloni]

This episode of the Town is presented to you by AMC Networks. Billy Magnuson and Zach Galifianakis star in the new series the Audacity on AMC and amc. Plus influence rises, people unravel, and CEO meltdowns are business as usual among Silicon Valley elite. Executive produced by Jonathan Glatzer, a writer, producer of Succession and Better Call Saul, The Audacity premieres April 12th only on AMC and AMC.

[Sponsor Announcer]

Plus this episode is brought to you by TaxAct. Taxes Trust me, they sound far more complex than they actually are. And it's all thanks to TaxAct. They make it easy to do taxes online, offering step by step guidance so you can finish your taxes ahead of the April 15 deadline and get your maximum refund guaranteed. If you get stuck, just add expert assist. Get unlimited help from a credentialed US based tax expert. Visit taxact.com to learn more.

[Matt Belloni]

It is Wednesday, April 8th. If it's early April in Hollywood, that means it's time for Cinemacon. That's the annual convention in Las Vegas for movie theater owners, about 3,000 of them. They get together next week for studio presentations of the upcoming movie slates, a lot of steak dinners, demonstrations of the latest in cutting edge projection and popcorn technology. Last year, Craig and I went to see David Copperfield with Sean and Amanda from the Big Picture podcast. That was before he got canceled for good. I'd like to point that out. David Copperfield, not Sean or Amanda, this year will be especially active at Cinemacon. Not just because theater owners are likely in a pretty good mood. With domestic box office up 25% so far this year from last year and a stacked summer and holiday season still to come, I'll be busy too. I'm interviewing Jon Favreau, the Mandalorian and Grogu filmmaker, during a lunchtime event on Thursday. And I'll also be heading up the annual Newsmaker panel with something new this year. Cinema United. That's the theater owner lobbying group that hosts CinemaCon. They're announcing today a new filmmaker council that will advocate on behalf of movie theaters. The council be led by Jerry Bruckheimer, the F1 producer producing Legend. He's the chair of the committee. Emma Thomas, who makes movies with her husband, Christopher Nolan. She's vice chair. Other members of this council include Ryan Coogler, Brad Bird, Jason Reitman, Celine Song, A really great group of filmmakers. But what will this new council actually do? Advance the Cinemacon? I've got the Cinema United President and CEO Michael o' Leary back on the show to discuss that. We're going to talk about this filmmaker council, as I said, and we're going to also get into the optimistic state of the box office right now. Is it real? The Paramount deal for Warner Brothers and how they're working to stop it or at least win some concessions and much more. So today is the Cinemacon preview on the town with the top lobbyists for movie theaters from the Ringer and Puck. I'm Matt Bellany, and this is the Town. Okay. We are here with Michael o', Leary, president and CEO of Cinema United and a returning champion. Welcome back.

[Michael O'Leary]

Thank you, Matt.

[Matt Belloni]

Okay, so we're having you on in advance of the Cinemacon convention, the big gathering of the movie theater owners and executives and the studios that love them or somewhat love them. I wanted to get into your big announcement today, but first, it's an interesting moment because the box office for the year is up significantly, like more than 20% over 2025. We're not quite back to pre Covid levels, but we got a Murderers Row lined up for the rest of this year. It seems like the box office is going to be up significantly this year. Does that help or hurt your cause? Because it almost feels like the less dire the situation is, the more people are sort of like, oh, whatever. The theaters are okay. We don't have to do much for them. And you are the chief lobbyist for the theaters. It's almost better for you if it's a dire situation.

[Michael O'Leary]

Well, I thank you for having me on. The first thing I would say is we're ecstatic about the state of the box office right now, and we hope that your predictions are right and that it continues right through the end of 2026. At the same time, you know, to go to your larger point, I believe that the entire entertainment system is in a state of flux right now, and there are things in the marketplace that we should be trying to. To adapt and change, frankly, moving forward. There's. There's an opportunity here coming out of the pandemic to create a system which works more effectively for the entire industry. And I think that that's not something that changes just because you have a continuing positive growth in the box office.

[Matt Belloni]

Yeah, I guess it. It just means fewer bankruptcies. All right, so let's get into this council that you have put together of filmmakers. I keep wanting to call it a Jedi Council because it's some pretty big names. You got Jerry Bruckheimer as your chair. You've got Emma Thomas, the big producer, Christopher Nolan's wife as vice chair. Ryan Coogler Brad Bird, Jason Reitman, Celine Song. Not bad. What are these filmmakers actually doing for you? So other than a press release.

[Michael O'Leary]

Sure, sure. So this is something that I've been interested in for a long time. And I believe that our industry works better when we work collaboratively. And so the people that you just named, the people on this council, they're not just world class creators, they're respected voices throughout the industry. And the things that they say have impact. And so this council will effectively serve as kind of global ambassadors for the theatrical experience. Experience. They'll do some things publicly, they'll do some things privately, but there it's going to truly be a collaborative effort between Cinema United, the exhibition industry and the folks on this council.

[Matt Belloni]

So what will they do publicly and privately?

[Michael O'Leary]

Sure. So I think that specifically it kind of falls into three general areas. One is advocating for the importance of the theatrical experience. That can be talking about windows, that can be talking about the main street impact that our industry has in communities all across the United States and around the world. I think a big part of it which isn't perhaps obvious is strengthening the relationship between exhibition and filmmakers. These people are all love going to the movies and they have very strong opinions about what that experience will be like. And frankly, it'll be good for the people that I represent in exhibition to hear that perspective in ways that we can make the experience better for everyone. And I think the third category, Matt, is probably building the audience. You know, we feel very good about some of the numbers we're seeing in terms of young people going back to the theaters. But one of the hurdles we have to get over, not just this year, but in the coming years, is we have to build back that theater going audience. And I think that these people can have an impact in doing that.

[Matt Belloni]

So, like you're getting Jerry Bruckheimer to show up at a ribbon cutting of a cinema location in Pacoima.

[Michael O'Leary]

I think that there's a number of ways that folks can engage. They can do interviews, they can do speeches, be on panels, they can do public appearances at theaters. There's more traditional forms of advocacy they can engage in. They can engage in letter writing, whether it's to a paper or to a member of Congress, social media collaborations. They can do all kinds of different things. And you know, it's really, from my perspective, the fact that so many marquee filmmakers are willing to commit the time and energy to support the theatrical experience, it speaks to the value that they see in theatrical as a part of the art form.

[Matt Belloni]

Well, Reitman owns a theater. He's, he's, he's rehabbing the Westwood Fox or the Village. But, yeah, so this is smart, I think, because, you know, no disrespect to you and your colleagues at Cinema United, but Ryan Coogler and Jason Reitman and those guys are much better advocates for the theatrical experience, at least publicly, than suits in Washington or elsewhere. And if you can get them. You know, I said from the beginning, the most effective marketing that Warner Brothers had for Sinners was simply Ryan Coogler talking about the different aspect ratios and lenses and how you can see the film in different theaters and get a slightly different experience. And that went viral, and it was something that people cared about. You know, Ryan Gosling getting up in front of a theater before Project Hail Mary and saying, it's not your job to support theaters, it's our job to put movies in theaters that you want to see. Is that. Do you agree with that?

[Michael O'Leary]

I completely agree with that. And I say that as a, as a suit from Washington. There's no question that their voices are respected and sought out, and they just have much greater impact. And that's why we're so excited about the potential of working closely with this group.

[Matt Belloni]

Well, I hope it's not just a press release. I hope you actually get them to do things because. And then privately, does that just mean that if I'm a studio head and I have a meeting with someone who is on this list, they're going to demand a longer window in my meeting?

[Michael O'Leary]

You know, I don't think that level of granularity is something we've discussed. These folks are engaged in the industry on a daily level, and they can carry messages in different ways. I think part of what makes the group important and will ultimately make it successful is everybody can kind of figure out their, their way to do it most effectively. Everybody has their own voice. And some people may just pick up the phone and say, hey, you need to pay attention to this. Other people may take a different approach. And so I think it really gives us a lot of different options, but it helps us reach the right people on issues that are super important to the exhibition industry.

[Matt Belloni]

Well, Emma Thomas and Chris Nolan, they put their, you know, deals upfront and say, 120 day window, or we're not doing it with your studio, which is ultimately the most effective piece of leverage that you can have if you're a filmmaker like that.

[Michael O'Leary]

Yes, it is.

[Matt Belloni]

All right, let's talk about Windows, because where are we right now? There's a lot of noise. When Netflix was in the mix to buy Warner Brothers, you guys came out, you know, put out your statement expressing skepticism about it, but willing to talk. It was very kind of both sides. The now Netflix has gone away. Paramount seems to be on the path to closing, although there are some potential challenges. Where are you guys as an organization in terms of either challenging or being skeptical? Or have you been won over by this promise that is not enforceable to release 30 movies per year on movie screens?

[Michael O'Leary]

We are largely in the same place that we've been in since the outset, Matt, and that is that we are opposed to the merger. We view the promises of 30 movies in a year with great skepticism and we've conveyed that to the folks at Paramount. That's not a surprise. This is such a key issue for our membership and it goes right to the heart of our ability to survive as an industry. And when you look at in the recent past, the drop in production which accompanies consolidation, it's just not something that's sustainable if it happens again. It happened a few years ago with Disney and Fox, and the ramifications of this are just going to be much more dire. So we are continuing to press our case. We're talking to regulators at the federal, at the state level working. You are, we are absolutely. And, and our, our international colleagues are doing the same things around the world. And we're continuing to make the case that there need to be, you know, consideration of the impact that this transaction is going to have on, on Main street, because it's going to be significant.

[Matt Belloni]

But what do you do? What, what, what do you actually push for? Is there even a chance of some consent decree that says, okay, you're talking about 30 movies a year, commit to it for five years, seven years, 10 years with a mandated government requirement that 30 movies get released theatrically with marketing spends, et cetera. Like that seems like it's be. It would be impossible to, to police.

[Michael O'Leary]

I think that, you know, this is a unique industry and part of the conversations that we're having with regulators right now is just to help them understand how this industry works. And so I think that it may seem as though those things are challenging and that there may be difficult to enforce, but we have to continue this process and to see what is possible. I haven't given up faith that there isn't. There's a way that we can somehow make it manageable, you know, consent decree or government ordered, you know, mandate that would put conditions in place that would govern this transaction going forward. It's simply not enough for us to take people's promises. And you cannot pay the. You can't pay your lease, you can't make payroll with promises. We need something more substantial than that. And I think, you know, you talked about the skepticism about making all of the movies. You know, I think the last time Paramount put 15 movies into wide release was 1988. And historically Warner Brothers has done it more often, but in the last four years they've been around 10 or 11. So the skepticism that you identified in your initial question is, well, founded 1988 is a long time ago. A lot has changed.

[Matt Belloni]

It is. And I've said from the beginning that I think what's going to happen is they will ramp up and they will put not 30, but close to 30 in theaters for a couple years and then they will have some financial issue or problems or they'll release some bombs and they'll say, you know what, we tried it and we're just going to pull back and the market has spoken and we're going to. And the same with Netflix. If they had gotten the deal too. So if there's no because, if there's no promise or enforceable contract, there's nothing to say once this deal closes, they can't pull back. And I think they ultimately will, which means you are smart, smart to try to push for something. I just don't know what regulatory body is going to require that.

[Michael O'Leary]

Well, we'll see. I think we're having conversations with a number of regulators, as I said, at the state and federal level and, you know, we'll see.

[Matt Belloni]

And Amazon seems to be friend of theaters right now. This is their big year. Finally. I was there at CinemaCon two years ago where I expressed some skepticism that they would ever ramp up to a meaningful sleep slate of theatrical movies. This is the year at least 13 movies by my count are getting theatrical releases. They had some bombs at the beginning of the year with Crime 101 Melania, and now they've got mercy. Now they've got a gigantic hit. How important is this for you guys that Amazon can feel a taste of success in theaters?

[Michael O'Leary]

It's incredibly important. You can't really overstate it. They have been consistent over the past number of months, saying that they were committed and that they were going to put movies into theaters that were going to resonate with audiences. And they followed through and they've done it. And we hope that this is just the start of a long series of successful films.

[Matt Belloni]

But what happened with Apple? Apple had a huge success last year with F1 and then nothing. Is Apple out of theaters now?

[Michael O'Leary]

Well, that's a question you would have to ask Apple. I don't believe.

[Matt Belloni]

Oh, trust me, I have. I've asked Eddie Q. Point blank and he says, oh, no, no, no, for the right project. I've asked them many, many times. And yet we have zero Apple films scheduled for theatrical release, wide release this year. Maybe they'll put the Ryan Reynolds Mayday in theaters. Maybe they'll do others. We don't know. But currently zero releases.

[Michael O'Leary]

So I think that we're at a point now where they have continued to say that they're going to be in theatrical. They had an enormous success last year with F1, which resonated around the world, and we're kind of in it. We hope that they follow through on what they said, but we need to see that in action. And so that's kind of, I think, where we are with Apple right now. I have no reason to doubt what they're saying, but we're at a point where we were looking forward to seeing things in the theater and in the pipeline to get to the theater.

[Matt Belloni]

Well, and you know, your chair of your Jedi Council of Filmmakers is Jerry Bruckheimer, who had that success with Apple and has another UFO project with Joe Kaczynski at Apple, which presumably will get theaters. But this is the kind of situation where someone like Jerry could throw his weight around and say, listen, I can't get into business with you guys if you're only going to release my movie in theaters. Like, let's do what Chris Nolan did or allegedly did where he had some conversations with Universal about their windows and they then backed off this set 17 day window guarantee, and they're now in 2027, guaranteeing five weekends in theaters. Maybe that's where this council of Filmmakers can show their weight.

[Michael O'Leary]

Yeah, look, I think that's right. Jerry Bruckheimer is a tireless advocate for movies in the theater. And so, you know, that's part of his role as the leader, obviously, is to advocate for that. And he's been doing that his whole career and we expect him to continue to do that. And as I said earlier, he has a voice which is really unmatched in many ways. But I think part of what you're seeing at a macro level is there's starting to be a little bit of a recognition that windows are significant, that windows do matter. There may still be debates about what the exact length should be, but we've just come out of a period of years where there was five or six years of experimentation and trying different things. And where we've ended up is you now have a situation where, you know, Tom Rothman comes on your shows and says windows are the single most important thing. Universal's announcement, yes, they, they, just to

[Matt Belloni]

be clear, they announced that they're getting rid of the 17 day guarantee for their movies. Not Focus Movies, but big Universal. And they are moving to a 5 weekend guarantee for movies.

[Michael O'Leary]

Right. And then you have Disney, which continues to have a window which is consistently over 60 days. So you're starting to see a shift, I think, in the perspective on this. And we're a long way from where we were four or five years ago. We're not where we need to be, but we're moving in the right direction.

[Matt Belloni]

Where do we need to be? I had an interesting call with a distribution executive a couple weeks ago where he was saying, you're, you're focusing on the wrong thing. All this whole Universal announcement of moving their PVOD window. PVOD doesn't matter. PVOD is a transaction oriented business where you are paying for the movie, where what matters is the SVOD window, the subscription streaming window, where these movies go on these services. People perceive them to be free because they already subscribe to Netflix or Hulu or whatever. And unless that window moves up from where it currently is, which is usually about 90 days longer, a little bit for some of the bigger movies. Disney just did 104 days for Zootopia 2, unless that moves to 120 days. That is the problem.

[Michael O'Leary]

I don't disagree with that. We think that both of the windows are important. The notion that pvod doesn't matter is incorrect. And the reason it's incorrect is because it changes. It has changed the perception of the consumer. They just hear that it's going to be in the home in a number of weeks. And the pivot SVOD differentiation doesn't necessarily resonate.

[Matt Belloni]

Oh, I think it does. I think it absolutely does. Because when they click on it and you have to pay $20, that's a slap in the face. But, but when you see it on Netflix, that's different.

[Michael O'Leary]

But by the time they click on it, Matt, it's too late to have seen it in the theater. And they made the decision not to see it in the theater because they heard it was coming to the home. So that's a loss. That's a loss. There. There was a lot of conversation around the PVOD window about how the drops were not affected. The impact wasn't at the end of the cycle. The impact was at the beginning. How many people went at the beginning. And there's evidence from NRG's put some stuff out that consumers continue to think that things are actually going to be in the home faster than they are. So part of what has to happen here is there has to be a reorientation of the consumer mindset that they understand that a movie is going to be in a theater for a period of time. Because the example you just gave, they made a decision, I'll just see it at home in a few weeks. Then they click on it. It's $29 and there's a chance you've lost that consumer. You've already lost them for the theater. They don't pay the P vod. You've lost two opportunities to make money with one consumer.

[Matt Belloni]

Yeah, I just think that happens once and then next time you say, oh, maybe if I see an ad for it on my tv, that's not subscription streaming, that's a transaction. This is always, there's always been vod. But whatever, we don't have to debate that. I agree that lengthening the windows for both is beneficial to theaters. And I just wonder, you know, this new Tom Rothman said The new Sony Pay One deal at Netflix is 120 days for most movies. So that's a step in the right direction for you guys?

[Michael O'Leary]

Absolutely.

[Matt Belloni]

I wonder if others will follow.

[Michael O'Leary]

I think so. I hope so. I mean, we're going to continue to press that case and you know, like I said, we're making incremental progress. We're not where we want to be, but we're heading in the right direction.

[Matt Belloni]

This episode is brought to you by HBO Max. It's the final season of the Emmy Award winning comedy series Hacks, premiering April 9. Starring Jean Smart and Hannah Einbinder, season five finds comedy queen Deborah Vance and her writing partner Ava Daniels returning to Las Vegas to solidify Debra's legacy. Don't miss the premiere of the final season of hacks on April 9, exclusively on HBO Max. And listen to the official Hacks podcast on Spotify and HBO Max, subscription required. Visit HBOMax.com for details.

[Sponsor Announcer]

This episode is brought to you by the Home Depot. Spring is starting, so it's time to wake up your yard. And at the Home Depot, they've got everything you need to do it. With low prices, guaranteed mowing your lawn is a dream. With top brand outdoor power tools like the Ryobi 40 volt mower, with up to 50 minutes of runtime, you can add a Pop of color with spring blooms and fresh plants. And refresh your garden beds with earth. Grow mulch five bags for just $10. Start your spring with low prices. Now through April 1st. Available at the Home Depot. Exclusions apply. See home depot.com pricematch for details. This episode is brought to you by Whole Foods Market. Spring is here, so celebrate it with fresh, juicy seasonal produce and some very tasty limited time flavors. New Whole Foods Market. Peach Apricot rose Italian soda. Perfect for a picnic or brunch as is their trending mango Yuzu Chantilly cake. But if you're on the go, new 365 Strawberry Pretzels make a great sweet snack. That sounds delicious. Get savings with yellow sale signs. Store wide and everyday. Low prices on 365 brand items. Enjoy the fresh flavors of spring. Save at Whole Foods Market.

[Matt Belloni]

Roy Price, the former Amazon Studios head, he wrote a piece for the New York Times recently where he said the movies are succeeding in theaters lately because they are, quote, just fun and they are not laden with politics and messaging like the past five years have given us. Do you agree with that? I don't know if I agree with that.

[Michael O'Leary]

You don't agree with that?

[Matt Belloni]

I don't know. I mean, do you think it was woke Hollywood that, you know, got people to not see movies in theaters? That there was diverse casting and that there was, you know, messaging in the movies that really, really hurt the box office? I don't agree with that.

[Michael O'Leary]

I don't agree with that. I do think there has, there is a place in movie making for socially themed movies, for political movies that has to be and has historically been part of the, part of, of our industry. But there also have to be just movies you just see because they're fun.

[Matt Belloni]

Yeah, no, I agree with the populism argument.

[Michael O'Leary]

Yeah.

[Matt Belloni]

That it, but that's slightly different. You can be diverse and have a message. I mean, Sinners is the perfect example of a movie that is populist but also has a political message in it. And it did fine. If the movie's good, people will see it. Hoppers has a diverse lead in an animated movie. Nobody cared because it's good.

[Michael O'Leary]

Right.

[Matt Belloni]

It's just when, when movies are not good or when there's something that stands out that people tend to gravitate on that towards that because it is a political environment we're in. But I do agree that this notion of studios getting back to serving the audience and trying to be much more attuned with being popular that I do sense is happening in Town.

[Michael O'Leary]

Yeah, and I agree with that. And I think that, you know, that it was an interesting essay, and there was a sentence in there where he said hollywood is based on entertainment. And his theory is that we've lost sight of that. And I think we have to get back to that. And so there. There is a place for everyone at the theater, and if you want to go see a compelling political drama, you can do that. Or if you want to go see, you know, something that's just fun and maybe a little bit frivolous, but entertaining, you should be able to do that. We need all of that back in the theater, because that's what's going to draw people from different places. We believe fundamentally that there's something for everyone at the theater, and this is an example of that. So when people go and see Project Hail Mary, for example, people just really love that movie.

[Matt Belloni]

Yeah, but that's easy to say. I think they love it because it is all audience. It's wholesome. It's, you know, got a uplifting message. I mean, those are themes that are universal, and I think that that's what's powering that. Plus it's got a charismatic star. Like, all the elements are lining up in this movie, and that's what I think Roy is singling out, is that this is a movie that exists entirely for the audience, almost too much. So it's almost a little overkill on that, but that's why it's doing so well.

[Michael O'Leary]

Right.

[Matt Belloni]

All right. Last time you were on, you talked about a $2 billion commitment. I believe it was $2.2 billion commitment. $2.3 billion commitment to improve movie theaters around the country. That was in 2024. You made that promise. Did that actually happen?

[Michael O'Leary]

It is happening.

[Matt Belloni]

I. I don't see any improvements in my local amc. No disrespect to Adam, Aaron.

[Michael O'Leary]

Well, it is happening, and I can tell you that In September of 2025, we did an update on that. We will do another update following CinemaCon this spring. But in. As of September 2025, for the 12 months ending September 2025, there have been $1.5 billion of reinvestments in theaters all over North America. And that's not just the AMCs and the bigger circuits. That's down to your smaller, you know, mom and pop, one, two screen things.

[Matt Belloni]

Who's paying for that?

[Michael O'Leary]

Theater owners. They're reinvesting in themselves. We're bullish about the future, and we're putting money back into our own theaters because we know that consumers want to only going to spend their money if there's an experience worth having. And so this is one of the lessons, frankly that I think we not only learned, but embraced coming out of the pandemic was we have to up our game and people have more options than they've ever had before and they're more discriminating with their discretionary money than they've ever been before. And so we have to do something special. And so you're starting to see people put stuff back in. A lot of it is, you know, screens and sound and projection, some of it is seating, some of it is, you know, food and concessions and beverages and things like that. But it runs the gambit of things that you will see. And the great thing about it is people are responding when they walk into a theater. They see the improvement and they say, this is a place I want to spend a few hours, want to spend a little bit of my hard earned money and have a good time.

[Matt Belloni]

Well, they're also closing some theaters. AMC has been closing hundreds of theaters. I'm so, I'm super bummed. My hometown movie theater growing up in Newport Beach, California is being turned into condos. So shame on you, Jim Edwards and the Regal chain. Why isn't there some private equity firm that will just spend, spend $50 billion and reinvent the movie theater industry? It seems like private equity comes in and can find synergies and find improvements in all sorts of businesses. And if these theaters is, if all they need is money to reinvent themselves as family fun centers and activity centers with movies and other stuff and better food, and if that's all it takes, there's gotta be money out there that will come in and, and do that for them.

[Michael O'Leary]

Yeah, there's no question that, you know, again, going back to coming out of the pandemic, one of the struggles that the industry had was access to capital.

[Matt Belloni]

Right, but why is that? Why is that a problem? Is it just because the trajectory of the business is going down and none of these big money people want to invest in a quote unquote failing business?

[Michael O'Leary]

Well, I think perceptions matter, obviously, and certainly from the investment community. If they're looking at headlines that do nothing but forecast doom and despair, they're going to take a second look. They're going to look, you know, they're going to look more cautiously about that.

[Matt Belloni]

And the prices of the stocks of all these chains are way down. Maybe we'll have some private equity people on to tell me why I'm idiotic for suggesting that.

[Craig Horbeck]

But what about IMAX theaters or. Michael, what do you think is the biggest need on the theatrical side, like the money that you're investing? What is that going to specifically that you think needs the most improvement?

[Michael O'Leary]

Well, I think that at its core, from my perspective, I think it has to go into projection and sound, the in auditorium experience, because I think ultimately, that's the biggest differentiator.

[Matt Belloni]

New flavors of Ices. That's the biggest differentiator.

[Michael O'Leary]

I'm less. I'm less inspired by the icy situation. I know that I'm in the wrong demographic for that, but I think it.

[Matt Belloni]

Trust me, it's important.

[Michael O'Leary]

It is. No, I get it. And so I think that the biggest thing is in the auditorium and the presentation and everything that goes along with it. There's obviously, to Craig's question, a lot of emphasis on the PLFs. And that is an area which I think people are responding to, and they want to go see those things. There's a wide range of options out there. But it's important to also remember that in any given theater, there are a number of different theaters that will satisfy people's particular needs to see something. You know, you may want to go see something on a PLF if it's just you and one other person, but if you've got seven kids that you're showing the movie, you may want to see something on a more traditional, you know, screen environment. That experience in the traditional screen environment can just be just as special as anything else. So part of what we're trying to do is create environments where everybody can have a place and they can go in and have a good time at the movies.

[Matt Belloni]

Free for all, texting, show, shouting, whatever you want to do. Make it like the Purge in a theater, and teenagers will show up. All right, thank you, Michael. Appreciate the time.

[Michael O'Leary]

Thank you, Matt.

[Matt Belloni]

Okay, we are back with the call sheet. Craig, do you have your tickets for Dune Part three?

[Craig Horbeck]

I. I don't, but I. I Need

[Matt Belloni]

to Be Better comes out in six months.

[Craig Horbeck]

I need to be better about that, because I do. I kind of want to be one of those people who finally gets to see whatever the Odyssey or Dune part 3 in the big, like, 70 millimeter IMAX. I've never actually done that, but it's hard in LA. You have to really be on your. On your stuff.

[Matt Belloni]

Well, you got to go to that awful IMAX at the Universal City Walk where you're, like, cruising amongst the Bubba Gump Shrimp Company in the lids.

[Craig Horbeck]

There was a video that, that was circulating this week of Christopher Nolan, kind Of like splitting his way through the crowd to get to that theater.

[Matt Belloni]

Yeah. He goes, because that's the best theater in la. It's crazy. Like, I. It's the one that. That, you know, has all of his special specificity. Although the one downtown, the new IMAX downtown at the Regal is supposedly also great. But regardless, they put these tickets for dune part three on sale six months in advance for 70 millimeter. When I. The first thing I thought when I saw that was, oh, I know why they're doing this. It's a big middle finger to Disney saying, we're not fucking moving off of our date. Because they are both scheduled for big movies on that date. Legendary warners, they have Doom 3 and Disney has Avengers, Doomsday, both on December 18th. Lots of people suspected that one of them would move. Neither is moving.

[Craig Horbeck]

Yeah, this is. This is Dune puffing its chest out and saying, we're not moving.

[Matt Belloni]

Yeah, I know. That is my prediction today, that neither will move. And honestly, I've talked to people at Disney that are like, okay, whatever, they can stay. There's enough business to go around for the holidays. And time and time again, we have seen that movies can coexist during that Christmas holiday. The only wild card there is that there's also Jumanji 3, which we haven't seen any materials for, but Sony thinks it's a big priority. We're probably going to see something from that at Cinemacon next week. But if there are three $200 million plus movies in that corridor, that could be a problem.

[Craig Horbeck]

I think that we are all assuming because of Barb and Heimer that this will work. And I kind of don't think it will. I mean, these movies will both obviously do well.

[Matt Belloni]

Dune, and it's not Barb and Heimer because they're the same audience.

[Craig Horbeck]

Exactly.

[Matt Belloni]

They're both going after the comic book Bros.

[Craig Horbeck]

Yes. That's why I think this. It's like the movies will both do well, but I do think it will cap the upside of the possibilities in the opening weekend because literally they are the exact same audience.

[Matt Belloni]

They are. I don't know. It could. The. They could both be fine. People could see both.

[Craig Horbeck]

Yeah, I'm sure that will happen.

[Matt Belloni]

They have two weeks of the holidays to go nuts.

[Craig Horbeck]

But I can't imagine that either movie will open better than it would have if it were alone that weekend. There's no way.

[Matt Belloni]

It's fascinating because the wild card is, which one of these is going to be good?

[Craig Horbeck]

Well, I mean, I. I have much more Faith in Dune, of course.

[Matt Belloni]

Yeah, Dune's going to be good. Of course, the Russos, I mean, there's already reports of just chaos and people being shuttled in for reshoots and whatever on these, on the. On the Doomsday. And you know what? That's how these movies are made. And they've had a lot of success in the past. And there is going to be an audience for this movie. I have it as my number two in the draft. But if I had to bet on one of these movies being good and being a lasting player at the box office, I'd probably bet on Dune.

[Craig Horbeck]

I would probably bet Avengers makes more money. Dune is a better movie.

[Matt Belloni]

Oh, it'll make more money, of course, because the previous installment of Avengers did you know? Of the biggest movies of all time. And the previous installment of Dune, I believe, got to like 807- 800. So night and day there. But Avengers is going to come down significantly. And the question is, will Dune go up for the final installment of the franchise? And I don't know, man. It's going to be great to watch.

[Craig Horbeck]

Is this just a dick swinging contest? Like, why wouldn't Avengers. Let's say Dune is like, we're not moving. Is it just because it would be a bad look for Avengers to move? Why doesn't Avengers just move? They'd probably make more money if they moved.

[Matt Belloni]

No. Well, first of all, Disney has a lot more problems because they have other tent poles throughout the year. They can't move it to a summer slot because, first of all, it was supposed to come out in the summer and it wasn't ready. So they could move it to next summer or they could move it to March.

[Craig Horbeck]

What about the fall? Is it. Isn't the fall pretty barren?

[Matt Belloni]

But they have other movies and they don't want to release a $250 million Avengers movie in the fall. Like, the upside is just not as big there. They have released Marvel movies in these corridors, but only when they they were firing on all cylinders. They need this Avengers movie to work, and they've got to put enough distance between Spider man where they can then continue the story a few months later, but not too close.

[Craig Horbeck]

Who has control of the IMAXes, Dune or Avengers?

[Matt Belloni]

Dune is getting more of the IMAX. They have a huge IMAX footprint because of the relationship with Denis Viln. And Avengers is going to get other premium format screens, but they're not getting the majority of those big IMAXes that matters these days.

[Michael O'Leary]

Yeah.

[Matt Belloni]

By the way, it's eight months from now, not six months. Yeah, even more ridiculous. All right, well, get your tickets and you and I will. One of us will go to Dune, one of us will go to Avengers. Then we'll fight in the hallway of the theater. All right, that's the show for today. I want to thank my guest, Michael o', Leary, producer Craig Horbeck arter Matt Pevik and I want to thank you. We'll see you one more time this week.

[Sponsor Announcer 2]

This episode is brought to you by Athletic Brewing company. No matter how you do game day on the couch, in the crowd or manning the snack table, Athletic Brewing fits right in with a full lineup of non alcoholic beer styles. You can enjoy bold flavors all game long. No hangovers, no buzz, no subbing out for water in the second half. Stock the fridge for tip off with a variety of non alcoholic craft styles available at your local grocery store or online at athleticbrewing.com near Beer Fit for all times.