The Hollywood Jealousy Draft: What Each Studio Would Steal From Its Rivals

Summary

The Town with Matthew Belloni

Episode Title: The Hollywood Jealousy Draft: What Each Studio Would Steal From Its Rivals
Date: May 19, 2026
Guests: Lucas Shaw (Bloomberg), Producer Craig Horbeck
Podcast Host: The Ringer

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Episode Overview

In this engaging episode, Matthew Belloni and guest Lucas Shaw play a uniquely Hollywood game: the "Jealousy Draft." They imagine a world without cost or regulatory restraint, where the top five entertainment companies—Disney, Comcast, Warner Mount, Netflix, and Amazon—can "steal" one asset or capability from any rival in the industry. The hosts debate what each company needs most, the value of different types of content or tech, and what the realignment would mean for Hollywood’s future. Producer Craig Horbeck serves as moderator and tie-breaker.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Setting the Stage: Hollywood’s Missing Pieces (00:00–04:00)

• Framing the Draft:
  • Even the entertainment giants like Netflix and Disney have strategic gaps: Netflix leads in streaming but lacks theme parks and sports, for example, while Disney lags in streaming tech.
  • Main Setup: Each company picks one asset—anything from tech teams to IPs to entire business lines—from any competitor, no questions asked.
  • Fun, strategic exercise aimed at revealing hidden competitive weaknesses and desires.
  • Notable recurring joke: “There’s no regulatory review,” so all bets are off.

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The Jealousy Draft: Company Picks

1. Disney (04:15–08:48)

• Unanimous Pick: Netflix’s Product and Engineering Team
  • Lucas Shaw: “If I'm Disney, I am taking Netflix's product and engineering team.” (05:21)
  • Belloni and Shaw agree: Disney’s main weakness is a fragmented, technically clunky streaming ecosystem that could be fixed by leveraging Netflix’s superior product/tech team.
  • Context: Disney’s confusion between being a family/kids streamer or a generalist, and the aspiration to build a “super app.”
  • Discussion of other tempting picks:
    • DC (from Warner): Belloni says, “You're putting all the superheroes under one roof.” (07:32)
    • Spider-Man from Sony—end Disney’s licensing headaches.

2. Comcast (08:55–12:27)

• Split Decision: HBO Max (Belloni) vs. Hulu (Shaw)
  • Belloni on HBO Max: “If I'm Comcast, I am taking HBO Max from Warnermount. Just the whole service.” (08:58)
    • Solves Comcast’s streaming and global reach problems.
  • Shaw favors Hulu: Seamless fit for Comcast’s US-focused, ad-driven model, and existing deep integration with NBCU content.
  • Lively debate on US vs. global ambitions.
  • With tongue in cheek, Belloni says Comcast rejecting global streaming is, “like when guys say, 'Oh, I wouldn't want to date Kylie Jenner…' Of course you don't have it, so you don't want it.” (10:43)
  • Alternative contenders: Spider-Man (Belloni), Harry Potter (Shaw).
  • Producer Craig notes the essential lesson: Comcast needs a streaming fix—either Hulu or HBO Max.

3. Warner Mount (13:00–17:22)

• Consensus Pick: Universal's Theme Parks Business
  • Shaw: “If Warnermount could take anything, they would take Universal’s theme parks business.” (13:00)
  • Warner needs diversification—theme parks offer a proven, scalable experiential business, already featuring Warner IP like Harry Potter.
  • Belloni: “…they are only loosely branded. Universal people don’t have an emotional connection…you could extricate those parks …and start populating them with Warner Bros. IP and it wouldn’t be that big of a change." (13:46)
  • Tangential ideas:
    • Taking Illumination/Chris Meledandri (animation/Kids programming)
    • Need for an experienced COO-type operator (couldn’t land on a specific name)

4. Netflix (19:37–24:26)

• Two Top Choices: ESPN (Belloni & final pick) vs. Disney Animation / Pixar (Shaw)
  • Belloni: “I'm going to go with ESPN. I think that's the missing piece for Netflix.” (19:43)
    • Would “instantly be the #1 player in sports,” plugging Netflix’s key strategic hole and bringing Monday Night Football, the Super Bowl, etc. to their service.
  • Shaw: Pixar or broader Disney Animation would solve Netflix’s perennial struggle with kids franchises.
  • Other creative options floated: the Disney cruise line for experiential IP, DC Comics, premium HBO-style curation (Casey Bloys), Tubi for FAST.
  • Producer Craig as tie-breaker sides with ESPN, arguing sports is now “the most valuable thing you can have right now.” (24:41)

5. Amazon (26:17–30:18)

• Final Pick: Marvel (with shout-outs to other strategies)
  • Shaw: Amazon needs a “hitmaker;” like a “Shonda Rhimes or Taylor Sheridan type person.” (26:32)
    • Steady supply of consistent hits—what the boys and Fallout hinted at.
  • Belloni: Instead, Marvel is the ultimate, always-replenishing IP (“Marvel is forever.”).
  • Shaw: Amazon’s complexity—Prime Video is a small part of a retail/tech behemoth whose incentives are different from pure media.
  • Belloni: Amazon would also love Disney’s consumer products business, but already sells it all.
  • Craig’s Decision: Picks Marvel—“it is bigger and like you said, it lasts forever.” (30:11)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the draft concept:
  “There's no such thing as a fully well rounded entertainment company. Even the biggest and most successful have strengths and glaring weaknesses.”
  — Matt Belloni (00:18)

• On Disney’s streaming woes:
  “Disney's biggest problem is that its streaming business is fragmented and confusing…most people would concede that Netflix has the best product in the streaming space, and Disney does not lack for programs that people want to watch.”
  — Lucas Shaw (05:37)

• On Marvel vs. Harry Potter value:
  “You think Harry Potter is more valuable than Spider-Man? I'm gonna reach across the Zoom and slap you in the face if that's true.”
  — Matthew Belloni (11:47)

• On the versatility of universal theme parks:
  “Universal people don't have a emotional connection to the Universal brand like they do the Disney brand. So you could extricate those parks from Universal and start populating them with Warner Brothers IP and it wouldn't be that big of a change.”
  — Matt Belloni (13:46)

• On Comcast’s international streaming ambitions:
  “Comcast saying they don't want international is like when guys say, ‘I wouldn't want to date Kylie Jenner.’ Of course you don't have it, so you don't want it.”
  — Matt Belloni (10:43)

• On executive importance at Amazon:
  “It's never going to be that impactful because ultimately Seattle calls all the shots at Amazon and no one executive necessarily has that big an impact.”
  — Matt Belloni (31:18)

• Recap/Insight:
  “All this reinforces is that Disney has a lot of stuff that other people want.”
  — Lucas Shaw (28:12)
  “This exercise has really made me a bigger believer in Disney because they don't have a lot of weaknesses. They have a lot of stuff that people would kill to have.”
  — Matt Belloni (28:20)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Intro & Game Setup: 00:00–04:15
• Disney’s Pick: 04:15–08:48
• Comcast’s Pick: 08:55–12:27
• Warner Mount’s Pick: 13:00–17:22
• Netflix’s Pick: 19:37–26:09
• Amazon’s Pick: 26:17–30:18
• Recap of Draft Results: 30:22–31:22
• Broader Reflection on Studios & Draft Takeaways: 28:12–29:08, 31:22–31:46

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The Final Jealousy Draft Results

What each major company “steals” in the draft:

• Disney: Netflix’s Product & Engineering Team
• Comcast: HBO Max
• Warner Mount: Universal’s Theme Parks
• Netflix: ESPN
• Amazon: Marvel

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Final Thoughts

• The exercise exposes how critical tech, international streaming, sports rights, and premium IP remain to Hollywood’s future.
• Disney emerges as uniquely pillage-able, but also as the “richest” player with the most in-demand assets.
• Sports and enduring family IP remain the most coveted, with ESPN and Marvel ranking highest as industry “game-changers.”
• The hosts suggest spinoff episodes: “agency draft” or “what talent agencies would steal from each other.”

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Tone & Style Notes

• Witty, fast-paced:
  • Playful banter, e.g., Marvel vs. Harry Potter, Zoom “slap” threats.
  • Expert analysis, but with levity.
• Candid about what execs “really” want and companies’ blind spots.
• Balance of speculation (“no regulatory review!”) and real-world strategic insight.

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Summary prepared for listeners looking to understand what Hollywood’s biggest players truly envy in their rivals—without ever having to listen to the whole episode.

Transcript

[A]

Foreign. This episode of the Town is brought to you by stars as Outlander. Everything has led to this. The final chapter of the time traveling drama and cultural phenomenon. Starring Sam Heughan and Catriona Balf is only on stars. Vogue declares Outlander one of television's greatest love stories. And the rap raves Balf and Heughan have perfected this on screen relationship. Industry voters can access all [e-mail] this episode is brought to you by FX's love story, John F. Kennedy Jr. And Carolyn Basset. The critically acclaimed series explores the undeniable chemistry, whirlwind courtship and high profile marriage of one of the most iconic couples of the 20th century, with Sarah Pigeon and Paul Anthony Kelly leading a cast including Naomi Watts, Constance Zimmer, Alessandro Nivola and Grace Gummer. Called a stunning portrait of love by Variety, Love Story is Emmy eligible in all limited series categories. Now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney for bundle subscribers. It is Monday, May 18. There's no such thing as a fully well rounded entertainment company. Even the biggest and most successful have strengths and glaring weaknesses. Netflix is the dominant subscription streaming service, but it has no theme park business, no comic book franchises, very little sports rights. Disney has all of those, but a user interface on its streaming service that could be way better and so forth. Hence the Hollywood Jealousy Draft. That's today's show. Lucas Shaw is here and we're going to play a game. We're going to go through each major entertainment company and let them poach one thing from arrival, the one thing they need the most and that they don't currently have. What would that be for Netflix? For Disney? You just take it. No cost, no regulatory issues, no blowback. Just snap your fingers and it's yours. Today it's the Hollywood Jealousy Draft from the ringer and Puck. I'm Matt Bellany and this is the town. Okay. We are here with Lucas Shaw from Bloomberg. Welcome back. Lucas. How was your experience at the TV up front? Did you get the full funnel experience? Experience?

[B]

I got the full funnel experience, Yes. I am now ready to talk about advertising technology with anyone and everyone.

[A]

Their platforms, man, they're not just a place to put ads. They are a full service, full funnel advertising solution.

[B]

Yeah. Why didn't you come this year?

[A]

I decided not to go. My kid had some baseball playoffs and just decided I've got New York trips coming up that I have to do for Puck. So just didn't go.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And honestly, I feel great about it.

[B]

You are missed, including by random People on the street who listen to the show.

[A]

Oh, they said, where's Matt? You know, people assume that you and I hang out. We really don't.

[B]

There was someone who works at like Morgan Stanley, who at almost one in the morning on Friday night, I was coming home from being with friends and he stopped me on the street and

[A]

asked where I was.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And you said that I was passed out in a corner of a bar down the street and go find him.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

All right, so we are going to go through the five top entertainment companies right now. Comcast, Disney, Netflix, Warner Mount, assuming this deal goes through. And Amazon, apologies to Apple, apologies to Sony, they are not in the top five here. And we are going to draft items. You can take anything from anywhere, no cost associated with it, no regulatory problems. This is. If you were running the these companies and you could take one asset from one company, which asset would it be? Craig, did we explain this properly?

[C]

I think so. I think the one thing to point out is that once something is taken, nobody else can draft it. So if you're Comcast, if you steal DC from Warner Brothers now, DC's off the board and nobody else can take DC.

[A]

Fine, that's. And then we will assess at the end who got the most benefit from their draft. Okay.

[C]

Okay. And then you guys are each going to basically bring your picks for. You're basically going to be acting as CEOs together of these companies, and you're going to have to argue over which you think is the best choice. But you're each going to provide your selections of what you think each company should steal if they had the opportunity.

[A]

And if we agree, great. If not, maybe Craig, you decide which is best or I think you guys

[C]

should have to fight it out and land on one.

[A]

Okay, fine.

[C]

Okay. So I'm going to give the order right now of who goes first. I'm going to honor the legacy companies first and the tech companies are going to go last. So we're going to, we're going to go Disney, Comcast, Warner Mount, Netflix, and last pick will be Amazon.

[A]

Oh, great.

[B]

You, you picked it in the order that I, I thought through them.

[A]

So that.

[B]

That works for me.

[C]

Great. So then Disney will be first. So you guys will go one by one. You can each say, if you're Disney and you could steal anything from the other four companies, what would you steal?

[A]

No, it's not just the other four companies. It's from anyone in Hollywood. You can go after something that's owned by Fox or by Sony. You can, you can get anything.

[B]

I have a question about this. So if I. I get that, if I give Disney something, that I can't give someone else that thing. But if Matt gives a company something, I also cannot take that.

[A]

True. We want one list.

[B]

Okay. So we have to agree.

[A]

We have to agree.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah. And if we really don't agree, then maybe Craig will stage an arm wrestling contest or something.

[B]

Great.

[A]

Great. All right, you go first. Lucas, what are you taking for Disney?

[B]

If I'm Disney, I am taking Netflix's product and engineering team.

[A]

All right. I actually had Netflix's user interface and tech stack similar. Slightly different, yes. Disney plus still on bamtech.

[B]

Same concept.

[A]

Same concept. But explain why.

[B]

Because Disney's biggest problem is that its streaming business is fragmented and confusing. They own four or five different services. People need to go to one place for sports, another for general entertainment, another place for family. They've been trying to slowly integrate. You know, first Disney and Hulu, they'd like to bring sports into Disney. Their, you know, new CEO, Josh Tomorrow's whole thing is one Disney, which maybe involves having just one front homepage for people to go to.

[A]

Well, that's what. Remember, Ted Sarandez has always said at Netflix. He'll know Disney is serious when the streaming service is just called Disney.

[B]

Yeah, right. Disney can either decide it wants to be a specialized premium kids family service or a general service, and it's been sort of caught in between. But whichever way it goes, there should only be one place you should not go to Hulu and Disney.

[A]

And by stealing the Netflix engineering team, they are more likely to get there.

[B]

Yes. I think a team that can figure out how to bring all of that into one place effectively. Because most people would concede that Netflix has the best product in the. The streaming space, and Disney does not lack for programs that people need to want to watch.

[A]

Yeah. What about the super app? Maybe they can help Disney achieve this super app that tomorrow wants.

[B]

Well, that's. It's all the same thing, right? If. If there's going to be one app that can be the home for Disney. I just think Netflix has generally had a, you know, been able to attract better engineers than Disney because it's Netflix and it's a tech company and it's the leader. And there are a whole bunch of reasons why this has been messy for Disney, but the cleanest way I could think of to simplify all of that was just like, okay, Netflix, your product team now works for us. And even if they have to start from scratch and take two years, they're going to figure it out.

[A]

Yeah. The only other contender I had for Disney and something that Disney would like to take from another company is perhaps DC from warnermount.

[B]

Really? They have Marvel.

[A]

You're putting all the superheroes under one roof with the consumer products and integrating Batman into the, you know, Marvel stuff. You could do crossovers and time lapses and all sorts of things. Then I think they would, they would benefit from that. But it's not close.

[B]

Do you think there would be an antitrust review of one company owning both?

[A]

This is this. There's no regulatory review. You forgetting here, there's no cost associated and there's no government regulations.

[B]

I'm just teasing. I had a different version of that which I. It doesn't compare to getting the whole product. I actually had K Pop Demon Hunters on the list because it was the most talked of. It was the biggest kids property of last year.

[A]

Okay, but that's one title.

[B]

Yeah, but if Disney had had it, they would have been ready with toys, merchandise, all this stuff. And I think importantly, it was very popular globally, which is an area of weakness for Disney. I'm not, Yeah, I wasn't my first pick, but I think one title, you know, who wouldn't want a new franchise that they could do something with because Disney has struggled to create new kids franchises.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, you could argue then that Disney would like to take Spider man from Sony because then they wouldn't have to deal with, you know, just producing the movies and letting Sony reap all the distribution money.

[B]

A valid contender. You can change to that one.

[A]

I would take Spider man over K Pop Demon Hunters any day of the week.

[B]

Yeah, I would too.

[A]

All right, let's move on. Craig, what are we doing next?

[C]

So you guys both kind of landed on Netflix's product and engineering tier.

[B]

We agreed that was boring.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, we agree on that. First one.

[C]

Next up is Comcast. Matt, why don't you go first this time?

[A]

All right. If I'm Comcast, I am taking HBO Max from warnermount. Just the whole service.

[B]

Interesting.

[A]

It does exactly what they need. Right now they have a very highly non scaled service in Peacock that is domestic only. They do not win the awards that HBO does and they do not have the programming team that HBO does. And with the Casey boys team. And HBO Max is growing globally. So I think that if I, if I could, if I was running Comcast and I could take one thing, I would solve the streaming problem with HBO Max.

[B]

Well, we know that they wanted it. Right. Because they made a bid for Warner Brothers Discovery or at least for the pieces of it.

[A]

And unlike Netflix, that's the key asset they want. They have a library. They want that service.

[B]

They need to figure out streaming. I agree with you. I just had a different streaming service, which is, I think that they should have Hulu because I thought they should always have Hulu.

[A]

Okay, but what is Hulu?

[B]

Well, that's exactly it.

[A]

They were domestic only. It doesn't solve the global problem.

[B]

That's fine for Comcast. Comcast has said it does not want to invest at the level that it requires to compete on a global basis.

[A]

Okay, but remember, this is a free draft. You get to just take it.

[B]

Yes, but it's not like you then get to just get it for free forever. You actually have to invest in the product. And I think if you're Comcast and your shareholders are most concerned about your connectivity business and you don't want to have to invest billions of dollars and figuring out how to stream in Asia or Latin America. Taking Hulu, which from a consumption standpoint is a bigger US service than HBO Max has a big advertising business. You already owned a piece of it. You already have some of your programming on it from long term licensing deals. It's a plug and play solution for them.

[A]

I don't know. I think Comcast saying that they don't want international is like when guys say, oh, I wouldn't want to date Kylie Jenner. I wouldn't want to date whatever model she'd be to too much of a handful. It's like, of course you don't have it, so you don't want it. You say, I get it.

[B]

I just think that Hulu fits like the, the types of programs that work on Hulu fit Comcast and the NBC Universal programming nicely. It's, it's the most developed like advertising business. Comcast is all about advertising, all about sports. I just, I think it's seamless. I get with HBO Max that it's also good, but I think there's not quite as neat a a brand fit.

[A]

All right, so we disagree on this one. The only other one for Comcast, I Spider man from Sony just to give them some superhero content because they have none.

[B]

I had Harry Potter because they already have the theme park rights.

[A]

Well, they also have Spider man rights west or east of the Mississippi. It would they do for theme parks. That's why there's no Spider man roller coaster in, at Disney in Florida.

[B]

It would allow them to unify everything. And I'm just higher on Harry Potter as A property than you are.

[A]

You think Harry Potter is more valuable than Spider Man? I'm gonna reach across the zoom and slap you in the face if that's true.

[B]

I think it's. I think it's a discussion.

[A]

Yeah. Oh, absolutely wrong. Spider man is the number one property, hands down, and it will be forever.

[B]

Forever?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

No properties last forever.

[A]

You do not have a child. Every kid relates to Spider man, and it will always be that way.

[C]

Disney owns Spider man only west of the Mississippi for theme parks. Wow.

[A]

Yeah. There was a. There was an old deal where Universal got the license to make theme park rides based on Spider man east of the Mississippi.

[C]

Oh, my God. Wow. That's. That's wild.

[A]

Very bizarre. All right, so are we going to have to have Craig intervene here?

[C]

No, I think this is fine because, one, you guys are similar. You both are basically saying streaming services. And two, I doubt Hulu and HBO Max are going to come up again. So this is still kind of aligned.

[A]

Well, wait a second. We got to choose one, though. Which one wins?

[B]

Mattress wants to be declared a victor.

[C]

Yeah, I think it's fine to just keep it as it is. HBO Max and Hulu are both, like, streaming choices for Comcast. I think that's fine.

[A]

All right, all right. Not satisfying to me, but whatever. Let's move on.

[C]

Next up is Warner Mount, which I hate that that's a name, but it's Warner Mount. Go ahead. Lucas, you can go first because Matt went first last time.

[B]

I'm going to pull off of the Harry Potter illusion and just say, if Warner man could take anything, they would take Universal's theme parks business.

[A]

I had that on my list, too.

[B]

This company needs to diversify Beyond Film TV. It makes almost all of its money from CA networks that are dying. Its streaming services are okay, but second tier, the studio business is great, but it's not the main business. It's just too reliant on television. And so the best way to do that, as we've seen from Universal and Disney, is theme parks. I picked Universal because, look, Disney has the best parks business, but they're too wrapped up in Disney ip. It wouldn't work. Universal parks are more flexible. They have Harry Potter, which is part of the Warner family. They have the Nintendo stuff. They could create a D.C. attraction. It'd be super easy, and it would, you know, give. Make them a big player in the experience economy right away.

[A]

I 100% agree with everything you said. And the thing with the Universal parks is, like, they're only loosely branded. Universal people don't have a emotional connection to the Universal brand like they do the Disney brand. So you could extricate those parks from Universal and start populating them with Warner Brothers IP and it wouldn't be that big of a change. Right. Just put a Superman Batman overlay on some of these roller coasters. They already have the branding.

[B]

You can, you could, you could do a Game of Thrones experience of some kind. It'd be. Yeah, it'd be a no brainer.

[A]

Yeah, that. That makes sense. The only other thing I had was perhaps they would want the Netflix tech

[B]

stack, but that's off the table.

[A]

Oh, you're right. That's off the table. Damn it. I know, because I was just going to say whatever the oracle pixie dust that David Ellison thinks he's going to sprinkle on the Warner Mount service, like that's a risk. I would just go for the best tech stack, but that's already off the table.

[B]

I had a couple others, but. No, you had more.

[A]

Yeah, well, I had, I had Disney plus also, because the HBO Max service doesn't really traffic in kids content and the Paramount service has Nickelodeon, but it's sort of underutilized and I think Disney plus would do a lot for them.

[B]

So I addressed that, but in a different way, which was. I was like, what if they just took Chris Meledandri from Universal and said, you're in charge of Kids programming now.

[A]

Go, go further. Say you could just take Illumination.

[B]

Well, that's what. Yeah. The crazy thing about Warner Brothers and Paramount is they actually have major kids properties. Right. Paramount owns Nickelodeon, which was defining cable network of that age. Warner Brothers Animation's been around for almost a century. They have leaders. You know, Warner Brothers has former DreamWorks Animation guy Bill Dimashki. Skydance has John Lasseter and. But like, neither company has seemingly prioritized kids programming and kids entertainment. And so I don't know whether to fault sort of strategy leadership or just like if they got the infusion of no, we're like buying this studio that has been really good and we now care about kids. It would help us theatrically. It would help because it would. And it would help us with streaming.

[A]

Put Illumination on a Looney Tunes movie. I mean, they are already working on a Barbie movie. I don't. Has that been announced? I know that it's happening. The Illumination is doing a Barbie animated movie, but they would just supercharge it. And any studio would be lucky to have Illumination.

[B]

The other thing I thought of is they need an executive. And this is not as big a pro. I go the theme parks 10 times out of 10. But like an executive with actual operating experience to help David Ellison run the company. Because that was sort of like why they brought in Jeff Shell and they got rid of Jeff Shell. And we all understand why.

[A]

Yeah, but. Well, you got to name one. Who would they take?

[B]

I, I, I couldn't come up with the right name.

[A]

I mean, who is the best studio operator right now? Donna Langley at Universal.

[B]

No, but that's a different job. That is, who is the best? We're talking about someone who is like a coo.

[A]

Okay. Not picking the movies and tv.

[B]

Correct. They, they should have that. Right. They have a wealth of creative executives. Mike DeLuca, Pam, like, all. Casey Bloys, all Cindy Holland, all these people.

[A]

Well, they would argue that they have that already, but.

[B]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. They, they need someone who's going to, like, figure out, help them cut costs and like, streamline operations and structure the business and all that stuff.

[A]

Yeah, well, they would say that their coo, Andy Gordon, is doing that, but. Right.

[B]

And he has a lot of experience in finance, but not as an operator.

[A]

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[C]

All right, so we landed on the universal theme parks business. So what's off the table so far? Hbo, Max and Hulu, the Netflix product and engineering team and the universal theme parks business is off the table. Next up is Netflix. Matt, you can go first.

[A]

I, I actually have a bunch of things, but I'm going to go with espn.

[B]

Interesting.

[A]

I think that that's the missing piece for Netflix. They say they don't want sports rights because they're so expensive. You know what, they're in at the big table now. They can afford it. And if they really want to supercharge, they should just go right after espn, take it from Disney and instantly be the number one player in sports.

[B]

I like that. I thought you were going to do, because when we talked about this before, you were talking about just taking like the CBS or Fox package for football.

[A]

Yeah, they could do that too. But ESPN is better going bigger and

[B]

just saying we'll take the preeminent brand in sports media. Disney has flirted with getting rid of it. We'll take it off your hands. Happily, you guys don't appreciate what you have. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[A]

Exactly. And they, and they would shut down the linear channel perhaps, or keep it as a 24 hour stream on Netflix. And they would have not only football but, but they'd have college football, they'd have baseball, they'd have NBA. All the stuff that espn. It's, it's the number one aggregator of sports. Yes.

[B]

They would be inheriting a lot of assets and complications that they have historically said that they don't want. From a linear network to journalism to all, to a web, a different website and all of that fantasy sports. But I think the core of what ESPN has those sports rights is value. I actually went with a different Disney property. I went with Pixar.

[A]

Oh, interesting. I actually had, I had Disney's animation unit. So I was going a little bigger than that.

[B]

But sure, same look, Netflix has never really, despite Tetranos ambitions. Netflix has never really figured out kids properties like K Pop Demon Hunters for now is a fluky aberration.

[A]

How dare you. Swapped. Swapped came out last weekend, was number one.

[B]

They have the most popular service. They are, they are a network, but they need to act more like a studio. They do not have multiple ways to profit from their hits. And part of it is they haven't really developed franchises and the best places to get that have been sort of Marvel and Pixar. And I think Marvel, which skews more broad based and adult, they don't necessarily need. But the kids thing is really hard and there are only a few places that know how to do it and Pixar is one of them. And so I think that would solve a lot of their problems.

[A]

I would just go a little bigger and also take Disney animation because then you get frozen in Moana.

[B]

I was trying to be more specific, but yes, we can just take Disney animation. You're right.

[A]

Yeah. And the leadership, you know, above both would go with them. And all of a sudden you're the number one player in kids programming.

[B]

So this is basically a question, what does Netflix needs more? Need more kids properties and franchises or sports?

[A]

Yeah, the other, the only other one I had was I thought maybe Netflix could take the Disney cruise line because you can't d brand the theme parks out of Disney, but you could switch over the cruise lines.

[B]

A Netflix cruise? Who the. Who's going on a Netflix cruise?

[A]

Paint the ships red and replace all the Disney stuff on the cruise with Stranger Things and you know, all the different Netflix programming. I bet someday there will be a floating Netflix experiential situation, whether they own it or not. But Disney owns this cruise line and that would be a great business for Netflix.

[B]

I don't, I don't see it.

[A]

No.

[B]

I had two others. I had two from the Warner family. One was dc because I know that Netflix has been interested in dc. They think they could do a better job with it than Warner has done. I actually think that D.C. would in some ways appeal to Netflix more than Marvel because they would say that Disney has exploited Marvel as well as anyone could. Whereas dc, there's upside. And the other is sort of the, you know, the murmurs about Casey Bloys and where is he going to go from HBO and is he going to go to Netflix? Something like that. There is sort of an. This is more about perception and I don't think it matters as much as the other stuff we've talked about. But if you were to create sort of A subdivision of Netflix that was just like premium HBO style programming to combat this, this kind of prevailing narrative that Netflix doesn't make good stuff anymore. I think it would kind of help them.

[A]

I don't know. I think that's the thing. They don't feel they need.

[B]

No, no, I know that they don't think they need it. That's why. Yeah.

[A]

And they've resisted sub brands. They've had every opportunity to create sub brands on Netflix and they have chosen not to.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So they see the algorithm as the sub brand. I disagree with them, but that's what they see. So I don't think they want the HBO style programing. I think that the other thing that they might want is something like Tubi from Fox.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Have a fast channel. You know, Netflix does not have a fast business. And as we see the ad businesses powering all of these services, maybe Netflix would benefit from a free ad tier.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Or maybe it would cannibalize what they're already offering with ads.

[B]

Yeah. And I don't know that they want all the programming that's on Tubi, but yeah, it's a thought.

[A]

Maybe. Okay, where are we going next?

[B]

Craig's got to be the tiebreaker on this one.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm.

[C]

I'm so between ESPN and Pixar for Netflix. I'm going to take espn.

[B]

Between ESPN and Disney Animation, I'm going to take espn.

[C]

I mean, Netflix just has K Pop Demon Hunters. I. I'm more confident that like they can figure that out. Sports is the most valuable thing you can have right now. And Netflix having Monday Night Football every week, Netflix having a Super Bowl, Netflix having the College Football Playoff and having ESPN lets them lean into like the podcast style morning talk content, which they also are trying to get into right now. And having first taken all that stuff now PTI that they can run every day during the day for people at home. I think that is exactly what they want to do.

[A]

You think Netflix should buy the ringer? Basically.

[C]

I know. Lucas, you said they don't have fantasy sports. Well, they kind of do. They have our show right now.

[A]

How dare you? The fantasy football show.

[B]

Here's the thing I'd say on that though is if Netflix wanted those big sports packages, they would go and bid on them. Right. They all of that takes is money.

[A]

Yeah, it's true. ESPN is renting.

[B]

They have shown that they want the kids properties. They have spent a ton of money and they have not gotten what they wanted from it.

[A]

Keep in mind though, this game, there's no cost associated with it. You just transplant espn.

[B]

I'm just. I'm just showing. I'm just talking about what they have shown that they want.

[A]

Okay. I think they want sports, but they are wary of participating in an arms race that will cause those sports rights to get even higher than they already are. And they're dipping their toe. Eventually, we all know there will be a regular football package on Netflix, right?

[B]

But it might not be for 12 years.

[A]

Maybe not for a while. Okay, so Craig, you're picking ESPN over Pixar.

[C]

I'm picking espn. And now, last but not least, we have Amazon. And Lucas, you have first selection.

[B]

This is where I went really specific because I struggled with Amazon and I sort of had a tie, so I might change my mind midway. But I sort of did a Shonda Rhimes slash Taylor Sheridan type person. I think they need a showrunner.

[A]

Who's talking about that person doesn't exist. You mean one of those.

[B]

Yeah, they need a showrunner who supplies consistent hits to their demo. They've replaced the executives. What they need is a hit maker. They need steady, consistent programs that people actually want to watch.

[A]

They need their version of the Sheridan verse. Yeah, yeah, I buy that. I don't know if that's the one thing that I would take from another company. I mean, they could again, they could have gone after Taylor Sheridan for the deal that he did with NBC and they didn't. We don't know. Maybe they did and he chose elsewhere.

[B]

The other thing I thought about was that they would take the. The NFL playoff packages that any of their rivals have.

[A]

They already have football.

[B]

Yeah, but they don't have the playoffs. And they really want the playoffs. What, what, what is yours? That it's like some big transform. They don't want a theme park business.

[A]

No, I think they would want Marvel. They would want Marvel. They've had a lot of success with the boys. They have that like younger genre demo and they have consist they with Fallout and the boys. And if they had Marvel, I think they. And all those shows and. And they're doing theatrical movies. I think that would be a game changer for Amazon Fair. Maybe not as big as Shonda Rhimes. I don't know. I mean, Shonda Rhimes will eventually get tired of this and retire. Marvel is forever.

[B]

Yes. Look, they bought mgm. They clearly want ip And I think Marvel is probably an answer for a lot of people.

[A]

But you're not high on it, though. You think Marvel.

[B]

I think it's totally fair. Look, we're Basically just like picking off different parts of all this reinforces is that Disney has a lot of stuff that other people want.

[A]

I know, it's funny. This exercise has really made me a bigger believer in Disney because they don't have a lot of weaknesses. They have a lot of stuff that people would kill to have.

[B]

Yeah, they just need to figure out how to harness it all is their problem.

[A]

Yeah. Craig, where. Where is. Where does that. Where does that leave us?

[C]

Well, selecting between what Taylor Sheridan or Marvel for Amazon? Both of these feel kind of underwhelming. I don't know why. It's like you're paying for past performance, not future. These are.

[A]

I agree.

[B]

That's what. That's the thing I struggled with with Marvel a little bit. I mean, anyone would take it, but

[A]

just having all those movies on your service, 20, 20 something years of those movies will be great forever. The other thing I had was another Disney business that Amazon would love is their consumer products business. I mean, Amazon, the world's biggest shopping site, would probably love to control the Frozen and Moana and Disney brand, but

[B]

they don't need to own it. They can just sell it.

[A]

Well, but if they owned it, it'd be even better. They could pump it down our throats and have it be the first thing you see when you turn on Amazon. Com.

[B]

Part of the problem with Amazon is that they don't. It's. It's the only one of these companies where entertainment is not actually their main business. So we're sort of picking what would make Amazon Prime Video more appealing, but not necessarily what would tie into, like, the larger Amazon corporate mandate. Because, like, you could argue that Amazon actually, like, Amazon really cares about AI. Right. Andy Jassy wants to integrate AI into all workflows. And so maybe the answer is some AI technology that they don't own. Or maybe Marvel works because then they can train a bunch of stuff on those characters and they own and control it. Same reason, like, there are occasionally those kind of crackpot theories that like, well, wouldn't Google buy Warner Brothers Discovery so it could just train its AI video product on the characters?

[A]

Maybe that'll happen. We didn't even include Google in this, but. All right, so Craig, where are we landing on this?

[C]

I guess we'll go. I guess I will just take Marvel by default because it is bigger and like you said, it lasts forever.

[A]

All right, so give us the recap here on the realignment that we have engineered.

[C]

Sure. So Disney will be taking Netflix's product and engineering team, Comcast will be taking, let's say HBO Max, Warner Mount will be taking the Universal theme parks business, Netflix will be taking espn and Amazon will be taking Marvel. So you're right. Disney got pillaged here.

[A]

That's okay. You know what I think, honestly though, Comcast might be the big winner here. Getting HBO max and the 140 million subscribers and the programming team in that library, that's pretty meaningful for their service.

[C]

What about for Amazon? Wouldn't you say they have like a lack of. They don't really have a voice like an executive. Like, why wouldn't they just like get Ted Sarandos if they could?

[B]

I had executives, but they just made a number of hires in that area. So I feel like they've picked the people that they want. Right.

[A]

And it's honestly like it's never going to be that impactful because ultimately Seattle calls all the shots at Amazon and

[B]

no one executive necessarily has that big an impact.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

How dare you.

[A]

I know it's true. All right, thank you, Lucas. We'll do. We. I like this game. We got to do agencies next. Talent agencies.

[C]

This was a success. We'll do spin offs of this now. It'll. There'll be a whole multiverse around the. The jealousy draft.

[A]

I, I can't wait to draft who from CAA that WME would steal if they could. So we'll do that next.

[C]

Do that next.

[A]

Today's call sheet is brought to you by FX's the Lowdown from Sterling Harjo starring five time Academy Award nominee Ethan Hawke. The series follows Lee Raybon, a self described Tulsa trussorian whose fixation on the truth tends to create more problems than it solves. All right, Craig, today's call sheet before we start a little accountability corner. Last couple weeks for call sheets, I correctly predicted the Michael movie would return to number one. I also took the under on Mortal Kombat 2, which did not hit anywhere near 48 million. And a little bit of accountability. Last week I. First of all, I screwed up. Is God is is not a religious movie. It is a thriller. And I hope no one heard me say it's a religious movie and went thinking that it would be an uplifting God movie. It is an R rated thriller. Definitely not. And people were pissed that I dismissed Obsession and said it wasn't even worth giving a line on because it wouldn't get to double digits. It got to 17 million. So wrong on that one as well.

[C]

It's all right. You know, the greats. Sometimes the greats miss.

[A]

All right. I have A shocking stat for you. Okay, what would you think the tune in was for David Letterman's final show on the late show in 2015? 2015, the live plus same day number for Letterman's final show.

[C]

Things were still cooking back then. We were in the good old days and we didn't realize it.

[A]

Give me a guess.

[C]

Can you tell me what his average viewership was or no?

[A]

In 2000, I will say that it was the highest rated show since 1994.

[C]

15 million.

[A]

13.76 million. So pretty close.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

By contrast, Stephen Colbert won the April ratings race for late night on CBS and he was averaging 2.8 million viewers per night. Kimmel had 2.48 and Jimmy Fallon had 1.21 million viewers. That's live plus seven days. So giving people a week to watch those shows. Now that is obviously on broadcast, not on YouTube or other digital platform consumption, but pretty stark drop in late night, which explains a lot of why Colbert is going away. Even though we know that, you know, the politics swirling around this are not a great look, the show was losing money and the ratings are just not there. And the question is, what will Colbert's final show this Thursday night, deliver in the ratings?

[C]

So he's averaging around 2 million. How, how much?

[A]

No, almost 3 million.

[C]

Almost 3. How much above 3 do you think

[B]

it will get to that?

[A]

That's the question. They have not announced who the guests will be. He's got big guests this week. He's got Steven Spielberg, he's got David Byrne, he's performing with. He's, he's got some big names lined up. But they have not announced who's coming on on Thursday.

[C]

I, I can't imagine it will be a huge spike because for all of the reasons why late night is struggling, I, I think people will just watch this the next day on YouTube or on Instagram. How most people consume late night content.

[A]

I agree. So should we set the line at like 4,5 million? Like maybe he gets up to that number. I don't even think he will. If we set the line at 5 million, I'm taking the under.

[C]

What about 4?

[A]

4 seems reasonable. I think there may be a million looky Lo out there that would tune in. So let's, let's set the line at 4. I'll, I'll take, I'll take the over on 4.

[C]

Are they advertising this? Is this going to be a big push?

[A]

Yeah, it's been everywhere. The media. I mean, are you kidding? Colbert's been on this ridiculous like exit interview media blitz. For the last three months he's done like 10 of them. And you know, they had Letterman on last week. He got a lot of attention. Like there's, there's a lot of buzz around this in certain circles. That's why the ratings went up in April, I think because people are anticipating him exiting. I just, I think It'll be between 4 and 5 is my guess.

[C]

Yeah, that probably sounds right. I will still watch it probably the next day on, on social media or YouTube.

[A]

They're not getting you.

[C]

They're not getting me. But I've enjoyed it. I watched the Julia Louis Dreyfus thing on Instagram. It's all good.

[A]

That was great.

[C]

But I, I probably won't be tuning. It's Thursday night, right?

[A]

Yes.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's funny because if it doesn't spike, we will know how many of the late show viewers are really just people watching the local news who fell asleep.

[B]

Millions.

[C]

Millions of 70 year olds who fell asleep.

[A]

Yeah. God. Amazing. All right. Today's call she was brought to you by FX is the Lowdown. This gloriously off kilter NOIR is an AFI television program of the year and one of 2025's most critically acclaimed shows. The Lowdown is available for your Emmy consideration on Hulu and Disney for bundle subscribers. That's the show for today. I want to thank my guest Lucas Shaw, producer Craig Horbeck, art Matt Pevik and I want to thank you. We'll see you a couple more times this week.

[E]

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[F]

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