The Life of a ‘White Lotus’ Producer, and the ‘Jury Duty’ Sequel Revealed

Summary

Podcast Summary

Podcast: The Town with Matthew Belloni
Episode: The Life of a ‘White Lotus’ Producer, and the ‘Jury Duty’ Sequel Revealed
Release Date: January 29, 2026
Host: Matthew Belloni
Guest: David Bernad (Producer: The White Lotus, Jury Duty)

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Episode Overview

In this wide-ranging conversation, host Matthew Belloni dives deeply into the life and business of David Bernad, one of Hollywood’s busiest and most successful television producers. They discuss what it takes to thrive as a modern producer, the high-wire act of making "The White Lotus," the reality-bending success of "Jury Duty" and its upcoming sequel, and the relentless optimism (and stress) required to keep a career going in today’s turbulent Hollywood. The episode covers industry wisdom, behind-the-scenes anecdotes, and news about what’s next for both series.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. How to Become (and Survive as) a Producer

• The Path

  • Bernad’s entry into producing came via determination and mentorship rather than a one-size-fits-all track.
  • Early jobs included mailroom stints and assistant roles with industry figures like Nathan Kahane and David Kramer (03:54–05:08).
  • Partnership with Mike White started when Bernad became his assistant, eventually evolving into producing together (05:08–05:45).

• Advice for Aspiring Producers

  • “Unless this is absolutely the only thing on earth you can do, go do anything else. It has to be your 100% commitment and passion.” —David Bernad (03:56)
  • Producing requires relentless self-generation; you can't wait for agencies to present great opportunities—you must create them yourself (16:16–17:31).

2. Building and Managing a Producer’s Business

• Evolution of His Business

  • Formed a company with Ruben Fleischer at Universal TV, leading to successes like NBC’s "Superstore" (06:47–07:08).
  • Established a unique deal structure with both HBO and A24 for current projects (07:36–07:53).

• Industry Realities

  • The era of the "generalist producer" is fading; survival now means being entrepreneurial and resilient (15:34, 16:16–17:31).
  • Schmoozing and genuine relationship-building remain essential (“You gotta have a profile. You gotta be out and at these dumb parties.” —Matthew Belloni, 17:27)

3. Inside the World of ‘The White Lotus’

• Production Challenges

  • Production on "White Lotus" typically takes 5–6 months, with season 2 in Thailand extending nearly 8 months due to weather/COVID interruptions (08:31–09:17).
  • Single-writer/director (Mike White) structure means shooting is like a feature film: “So you're kind of shooting a long movie.” —Bernad (08:40)

• Budget & Pay Structure

  • Budgets have only “minimally increased” since season 1; not as expensive as rumored (09:31–10:01).
  • Unique “most favored nations” structure: everyone makes the same, helping attract actors “for the right reasons” (10:11–11:29).
  • “The spirit of the show is, we're all there together making this show. And it's hard... You're getting people that are there... for all the right reasons.” —Bernad (11:11)

• Producer’s Role

  • Bernad acts as an “extension” and “whisperer” for Mike White, handling everything from second unit shots to on-set troubleshooting (11:34–12:36).
  • Example: dealing with cast, production, location issues, and overseeing a smooth process.

• Notable Anecdotes & Feuds

  • Addressed rumors about Woody Harrelson dropping out (was scheduling, not pay) (10:19–10:49).
  • Opened up about the publicized composer feud: “That feud was, I think, a one-sided feud that became public, unfortunately.” —Bernad (12:45–13:19)

• Why It’s the Hardest Show

  • Massive cast, multiple locations, “bubble” shooting during COVID — “People look to the producer like I’m an epidemiologist, like I should know how to solve COVID.” —Bernad (13:38–14:24)
  • Increasing critical pressure: “The pressure to be successful has gotten greater.” (14:24)

• Sneak Peek: Season 4

  • Filming in high season in the south of France; juggling hotel/logistics challenges (14:34–15:16).
  • Largest cast yet; casting still underway (15:23–15:34).

4. "Jury Duty" – Behind the Scenes & Season 2 Reveal

• Origin Story

  • Conceived after working on hidden-camera projects like "Bad Trip" and collaborating with Sacha Baron Cohen’s team (19:40–20:26).
  • The premise: Isolating someone in a realistic scenario (jury sequestration) for a sitcom/mockumentary setup.

• Thematic Drive

  • The goal: “Can someone become the hero of their own story?” —Bernad (21:58, 24:32)
  • Inspired by slobs-vs-snobs comedies (Caddyshack, Animal House) but with a real person at its heart (22:36).

• Season 2: Company Retreat

  • Premieres March 20 on Amazon Prime; the new setup is a corporate retreat for a hot sauce company (21:37–21:51).
  • All actors except the unsuspecting lead, Anthony (23:11–23:59).
  • Casting the “hero” demands elaborate vetting to avoid prior knowledge of the show/genre (23:23–23:52).

• Tension & Logistics

  • Only one version is shot—no backups; a mistake at any stage could ruin years of work (23:57–26:50).
  • “White Lotus is the hardest thing I have to make. Jury Duty is the most stressful.” —Bernad (25:44)

• Genre-Defining

  • Belloni calls it: “This is now a genre, the unsuspecting hero genre, because you guys have shown that you can replicate it.” (24:29)

5. Comedy in Hollywood (2026)

• Current Projects

  • Upcoming movies: Hard comedies for Netflix and a theatrical comedy in the works at Paramount. “Paramount has an absolute desire to make more comedies theatrically, and I believe them.” —Bernad (28:08–28:19).

• Market Realities

  • Theatrical comedies remain a tough sell; studios are embracing direct-to-streaming, but Bernad insists on picking projects based on personal passion, not market trends (28:19–29:32).

6. The Producer’s Burden: Endgame Edition

• On Set Dynamics
  • “I represent everything wrong with the production. If their flight is messed up, it’s my fault. If their breakfast sucks, it’s my fault. So I've grown to be comfortable with being hated for things that are out of my control.” —Bernad (30:10)
  • Living together for months creates unique tensions; Bernad addresses rumors about feuds and the familial chaos of a cast sharing close quarters.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Unless this is absolutely the only thing on earth you can do, go do anything else. It has to be your 100% commitment and passion.” —Bernad (03:56)
• “We were talking, we're like, we should apply to be on Amazing Race together. So we made a video... Two weeks later, CBS called us, and I ended up getting recast for his dad.” —Bernad, on his early days with Mike White (06:12–06:29)
• “People look to the producer like I'm an epidemiologist, like I should know how to solve COVID.” —Bernad, on producing season one of White Lotus (13:38–14:24)
• “The spirit of the show is, we're all there together... You're getting people that are there for all the right reasons.” —Bernad, about casting and pay structure on White Lotus (11:11)
• “Jury Duty is the most stressful [show] because at any second, any mistake could cost the entire shoot.” —Bernad (25:44)
• “You want to have fun. I represent everything wrong with the production... So I've grown to be comfortable with being hated for things out of my control.” —Bernad (30:10)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• Producer Career & Advice: 03:54–07:36
• Business Model / Deal Structure: 07:36–08:00
• Making 'White Lotus': 08:00–15:34
• Changing Face of Producing: 15:34–18:20
• Jury Duty Origin & Season 2: 19:40–26:29
• Comedy in Today’s Hollywood: 27:22–29:32
• White Lotus Cast Chaos: 29:32–30:56

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Tone and Style

The conversation is frank, wry, and peppered with insider anecdotes and self-deprecating humor. Bernad shares candid stories about the realities of producing, evoking both the grind and the accidental fun of the industry. Belloni guides the discussion with genuine curiosity and playful skepticism, pressing for details but keeping the mood lively and unpretentious.

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For Further Listening

If you’re seeking a clear-eyed, street-level (and frequently hilarious) look at what it actually takes to make some of Hollywood’s most-talked-about TV in 2026, this episode offers an inside track—complete with war stories, candid business wisdom, and an exclusive scoop on “Jury Duty: Company Retreat.” Even those unfamiliar with Bernad will appreciate the broader takeaways about creativity, hustle, and survival in show business today.

Transcript

[A]

This episode of the Town is brought to you by Netflix. Presenting Train Dreams Nominated for four film Independent spirit awards including best Picture and Best Director Clint Bentley, the Playlist lauds it as a career best performance from nominee Joel Edgerton. Winner of the Critics Choice Award for best cinematography, RogerEbert.com raves, it's a film that reached into my heart and soul. You don't just watch it, you breathe it in. And New York Magazine hails Train Dreams the best picture of the Year for your awards consideration. This episode is brought to you by Warner Bros. Pictures. Presenting Sinners, written and directed by Ryan Coogler and starring Michael B. Jordan. Hailed as the best picture of the year, the New York Times calls Sinners a big screen exaltation, a passionate, effusive praise song about life and love, including the love of movies. And Timeout says Ryan Coogler's bold vision makes Sinners a true event, an exuberant widescreen experience that that stirs the soul. Sinners is awards eligible in all categories including best picture, best director and best actor. It is Thursday, January 29th. The life of a working producer these days often means picking up your entire life and living for months in London or Atlanta or Montreal, especially this time of year. The holidays are over. Film and TV productions have started back up at Sundance and the Golden Globes parties these past few weeks. It seemed like every producer I talked to is about to leave town for some projects. One of those was Dave Bernad, who was prepping to make the fourth season of the White Lotus at a luxury hotel in the south of France. I know cue the violins there, but it's definitely not a vacation for Bernad. He's kind of a throwback producer in some ways. He came up in the traditional way in Hollywood to the extent that still exists, toiling as an assistant and then working with Mike White, the filmmaker whose rise to a level creator has allowed Bernad to produce both White's projects and other stuff, everything from the Uncharted movie to Superstore on NBC. And White Lotus, of course, is an interesting show to make. The last season took about eight months in Thailand, despite taking place mostly in one location. Burnett also executive produces another of these stranger shows to make right now, Jury Duty, which became a breakout a couple of years ago on Amazon for its premise, a sitcom set during a jury trial where everyone's an actor except one guy who thinks it's real. Jury Duty is back with a new and totally different season, this time at a company retreat. I've seen it. It's pretty hilarious. Bernad's going to break some news about that show, but mostly today I wanted him on to discuss the life of a working producer, how to pull off some of the more difficult Hollywood projects and live to have a sane life or relatively sane. From the ringer and puck, I'm Matt Bellany, and this is the Town. Okay. We are here with David Bernad, producer, White Lotus, jury duty, Many, many others. Welcome, Dave, how are you? Great.

[B]

Thank you for having me. I was telling you, I've. There's a lot of excitement around me.

[A]

I know. Do not be nervous.

[B]

I'm not nervous. Other people are nervous. I'm excited to be here.

[A]

We've only had one person who did not enjoy their experience on the town. I will not say who it was, but it was someone who wrote a book, and I asked him about the contents of the book, and he was offended that I asked about things that he wrote about in his own book.

[B]

No, I listen, I'm just. I like to gossip. I like to just talk shit. I'm trying to be restrained in this interview.

[A]

No, no, no. We do not allow restraint. This is not the venue for restraint. All right, so I want to get into kind of the life of a successful producer. And we'll talk about White Lotus. We'll talk about the new jury duty. You've got some news on that front. But just like, I think our listeners are curious how a successful producer, like, set sets up his or her business. Like, give us the. The lay of the land of, like, you know, how you got to be in this position and also, like, where your deals are and kind of what you prioritize. What, like, give us the snapshot of your business.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, producing. It's funny, everyone, you know, constantly, almost weekly, someone asks me to talk to, you know, a young kid in college or coming out of college who wants to be in the business. And I tell them all the same thing, which is unless this is absolutely the only thing on earth you can do, go do anything else. It has to be your 100% commitment and passion. And that's kind of.

[A]

It's funny, I say that to people who want to be lawyers when they ask me about going to law school.

[B]

That's true. It's true. So, like, you know, as a young kid, I wanted to produce. That's all I wanted to do. It was my absolute passion on earth. I was lucky to meet Nathan Kahane, who was a first mentor of mine. And he basically told me, he said, go be in a mailroom. He Kind of told me about working for Bill Block, and I was like, that sounds exactly.

[A]

Producer ran Miramax. Yeah.

[B]

Exactly what I wanted to do. So I. Through a long, winding story, I ended up at uta. And very lucky to meet David Kramer, who is, I would say, my second mentor.

[A]

He now runs uta.

[B]

Yeah. And he was incredible. He really kind of. He taught me about the business and also taught me about really, the hard work. And weirdly, James Weaver replaced me, who produces the studio.

[A]

Well, then he went over to Seth Rogen's company and was an assistant there and is now, like, basically running Point Gray.

[B]

Exactly. So David Kramer's done something right. But, you know, I really kind of learned the business from him and from David Kramer. I was lucky enough to meet Mike White. And, you know, I worked as Mike's assistant to begin with, and I became his producing partner after about a year or two, and we had a company together, and at some point, we did a show in light and we did a bunch of movies together. And at some point, he came to me and said, you're too ambitious for me. You have to go off on your own. Like, I'm holding you back, is what Mike said to me. And from that point, I really had to figure out how I wanted to build my business. And he was great. He was like, you can produce my stuff, but just go do your own stuff. Because I don't want to produce. You want to produce.

[A]

I mean, I'm sorry, just to take a step back. Mike White's assistant. That can't be easy.

[B]

No, no.

[A]

The dude is so difficult. They literally put him on Survivor.

[B]

Well, you know, it's funny. It's like we actually initially bond. He was in post on this movie, Year of the Dog, and we bonded over our love of reality tv. And we said. We were talking. We're like, we should apply to be on Amazing Race together. So we made a video.

[A]

No way.

[B]

We were wearing matching blue velour jumpsuits, ran around Brentwood. We shot this really crazy video. I edited it on my MacBook. I dropped it off in Long beach, and then two weeks later, CBS called us, and I ended up getting recast for his dad.

[A]

I was gonna say, he ended up doing with his dad.

[B]

Yeah, I got recast. They're like, the good news is, we love you, Mike. Bad news is we hate that other guy. So you gotta.

[A]

Right, he's too normal. Let's get in. Let's bring in your dad. That's a funnier dynamic.

[B]

Exactly. So, yeah. So from there, I kind of figured how I wanted to build my business. And I was fortunate to meet Ruben Fleischer, the director. And we started a company together at.

[A]

Universal, Zombieland, a bunch of others.

[B]

And I started company at Universal TV with him, with Bella, obviously now runs Netflix and Andy Wheel and Tracy Pacosta. And it's really that team now that's at Netflix. And the first thing we sold and did was Superstore, which ended up doing 113 episodes.

[A]

NBC.

[B]

Yeah. And then the next thing we did was a show called the Bold Type for Freeform, which was also a huge success. So. And Ruben and I worked together about eight years. And a couple years ago I kind of, you know, and I think Ruben would agree. I'm so. I'm just a go, go, go kind of guy and I'm just moving, trying to move at a fast pace. And I felt like I was kind of. Yeah, I just needed to kind of figure out my own thing. And. And so about three years ago, I started a company at a 24 and HBO and was fortunate enough to be, you know, they were. They wanted to make a deal with.

[A]

Me and wait, it was the. The deal was with HBO or with a 24 or both.

[B]

I have a deal with both. And they're kind of like first look, second look. And it's very unique setup and they're both great partners. And I've known Casey and Franny and them for a long time.

[A]

HBO team.

[B]

Fifteen years ago, Mike and I made the show Enlightened together. So we've been in business with them with Casey for 15 years.

[A]

And the story of how White Lotus came about is pretty well known. They went to Mike and said, what can you do during COVID he said, how about this? And wrote it quickly and you guys shot it. But what I don't understand about White Lotus and you're about to take off for season four and this show takes eight months to shoot. The Thailand season took eight months. I don't understand how an eight episode show with largely one location and largely a smallish principal cast can take that long to shoot. What is going on here?

[B]

Eight months is. I think that's an exaggeration. The production itself is about five months.

[A]

Six months still, that's like a couple Russo Brothers movies.

[B]

Remember, it's Mike who's writing and directing the whole piece. So you're kind of shooting a long movie. Thailand took longer partly because of weather and delays. And there was about a. We probably lost about a month or so combination of COVID weather. Almost every day we were dealing with Thunderstorms and kind of having to shut down. But it wasn't just one location. We shot in six different cities. So remember, we're prepping, we're scouting, we're shooting. And it's all just one director. So there's no advance work and we don't want to kill Mike. So we have to go at a humane pace on White Lotus.

[A]

Okay, so yeah, so it's director contingent. And I had heard that the whole premise of the first season was that you could do it for relatively cheap. I heard that by season three, White Lotus is one of the more expensive shows on hbo.

[B]

That's not true. But I do have to say Casey Bloys, Francesco Orsi deserve an immense amount of credit.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Of course they do.

[B]

They do, Matt, they do. I get it.

[A]

But, but my point is they said.

[B]

To us, Matt, they said, they said we didn't have any scripts. They're like, okay, Mike White, you're a genius. I trust you guys to go off and figure out a show. And we, when we went to Hawaii, I don't think Mike even knew how it ended. We just were off and running and had to figure it out. But it is. The show is. Our budgets have minimally increased.

[A]

Okay. All right. And you famously do the whole. The thing where everybody takes a pay cut and works for the same. Is it still, what is it, 50 grand an episode?

[B]

I will get the numbers. But yeah, it's an mfn.

[A]

Yeah. So everyone makes the same. And it's not for cheap. But you lose stars. You lost Woody Harrelson because he wouldn't do it for cheap.

[B]

No, no, no, that's. I got. That's not true. So Woody was close. He had a close deal. He didn't do it because our schedule kept pushing because of weather and basically we pushed twice and Woody was good with the two pushes. And then eventually it pushed into a week long birthday trip he had.

[A]

True, though.

[B]

But it speaks to Woody as a person. He called me and he's like, I, I'm dying to the show. I just can't fuck over my family. And all these people who had planned this trip for us and we had pushed, we had pushed a month at this point, so.

[A]

So it was not money related.

[B]

Not money. Not at all. He was ready to go and he. And when he called me, it was like a pained conversation because he was dying to do the show.

[A]

But you must lose people because of the money.

[B]

Yeah, totally.

[A]

Five, six months.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Like for not very much money. The list is Gonna get widowed down. But these people all get awards, nominations, they get endorsement deals. Like, pretty good gig.

[B]

Totally. And I think to us, the spirit of the shows, we're all there together making this show. And it's hard. It is a hard show to make. And I think when kind of the way the deals are structured, you're getting people that are there, not to quote the Bachelor, but for. For all the right reasons. And so that's kind of how we built it, and it works for us.

[A]

Okay, so what is your role on the set of White Lotus?

[B]

Mike and I have been working together, like I said, for 20 years. And so I'm kind of an extension of him.

[A]

So you're the Whisperer. Many of these productions have a producer who's like the director Whisperer. That's you.

[B]

Yeah, but I mean, Mike's talent beyond being an exceptional writer and director is he trusts people to do their jobs. He's not someone who's micromanaging. And I think that he trusts all the heads of departments, the dp, the production designer, costume designer. And he trusts me to kind of handle, to know what I need to do on a day to day basis. And my job every day when I wake up is different. There's some times where I'm overseeing the second unit, all those crashing wave shots people complain about. I'm helping to kind of oversee those shots and also dealing with anything that comes up, like cast related, production related, location related. And I'm also at the monitors watching. And if something, and very rarely does something come up where I kind of will go and whisper to Mike and go, maybe you need this or maybe you need that. But that's a very rare occasion. But I'm really just there to make sure everything is kind of working as it needs to work. And Mike has what he needs.

[A]

Did you get involved in the feud between Mike and the composer last season? That was. That was my favorite. Who gets in a fight with their composer?

[B]

No, wait, wait, wait a second. I have to. I don't. I don't want to reignite anything.

[A]

So you guys, please, like, this is.

[B]

Where you're tempting me. This is where I got to be restrained. I will just say this. I've been working with Mike for 20 years. Mike is one of the kindest people I know and generous of spirit people I know. So that feud was, I think, a one sided feud that became public unfortunately. And we did everything in our power over five years to make that relationship work.

[A]

Oh, you know what, though? The music adds a lot to that. Show. It'll be interesting how you guys find someone else.

[B]

We will, Chris. Look, Christo's a genius. It just. And that's an unfortunate thing that happened. But I will just say there's only one right side to that story. And that's, you know, that's all I'll say.

[A]

Says the producer who works with the side who is allegedly right. That's okay. I won't press you on it. Is that the hardest show you produce?

[B]

Yes, without a doubt. Because there's so many moving pieces, and there's a lot of. There's a lot of cast. There's 25, 30 pieces of cast, and we're moving a lot of movement locations. First season was just in Maui, but that shit was the hardest shoot I've ever done. That was in a bubble. People are on top of each other. And there's Covid, and that was kind of this unknown thing. And people look to the producer like, I'm an epidemiologist, like, I should know how to solve Covid. And you're kind of dealing with the stress of that. Plus just the anxiety of every day was a different issue. And as we've gone forward, the show's gotten bigger and bigger, and I think the pressure to be successful has gotten greater. So it's like, how do you pull this off and have critics like yourself still like the show?

[A]

I'm not a critic. Okay. Well, my taste does not matter. I do watch. It matters to me, and I enjoy it.

[B]

Your taste matters to me. It is the hardest show I've ever done.

[A]

Give me a little tease for season four. Like, what's the big challenge? I don't want to know plot or anything like that. But what's the big challenge? Shooting at a big resort in France?

[B]

Well, the tricky thing with France, it's different from our previous locations, is that we're shooting in the high season in France, which is a destination, obviously. You have Cannes. You have Cannes, Lyon.

[A]

Yeah. How far are you from Cannes here? I don't know this resort.

[B]

One thing I'll say is that that's not the only resort. The show will take place in the south. We're shooting in multiple locations, and it's been really. Right before I got on with you, I was talking to Mike, and there's data issues with the hotels already booked out and differently. So we're trying to figure out how to figure out the jigsaw to get the locations we need to fit into the production schedule. We have. We have actor availability. That is always a thing that's in flux.

[A]

Yeah. You're also heading off to shoot when you haven't announced the cast yet. Only two of the cast members have been announced, but we're deep in casting.

[B]

So Mike and I, we have callbacks next week. France, we've been doing callbacks this week. We're really at the beginning of the casting process. So we have a lot and there's gonna be. This is actually a larger cast than we've had in the past.

[A]

I'll say that with someone like you, it feels like the age of the generalist producer is kind of going bye bye. And it's nice to see that someone like you can do more than outside of just the big filmmaking talent that they came up with. Like, what do you think of when you see the landscape for generalist producers these days? It's pretty grim out there. There just aren't a lot of projects and especially few deals at studios. So like what is, what is the trajectory and like what's the best path for working producers to stay working?

[B]

It's something I think about a lot and how fortunate I am. But you know, if I was giving myself advice 20 years ago, I don't even know what I would say to kind of end up where I'm sitting here. It's really this windy road. But the only thing that I can point to for my own success is I've never been someone who's like waiting around for CAA to send me that like brilliant book because they're sending that to Brian Grazer, they're sending that to whatever other producer. So for me it's been about self generation and I've had to generate my own ideas, I've had to cultivate my own relationships. I'm really someone who I love every second of producing. And so for me it's never felt like a job and I've really gone out and kind of built my career. And the truth is like working for Mike. Mike would base. I would sit in an office alone at Paramount and he would ask me to do nothing. So I just basically sat and started taking general meetings as an assistant and I end up selling projects as an assistant. And I think it takes that level of entrepreneurship to be a successful producer now. But it is a incredibly soul sucking job at times. You have to be just like an eternal optimist, which I luckily am to wake up every day and think you can take an idea from your brain and somehow bring that to life. And that's really what I think.

[A]

Well, you're also out a lot I know people, like, make fun of the fact that producers are out kind of schmoozing people, but you know what? It works. Like, you gotta have a profile. You gotta be out and at these dumb parties. And like, I saw you, I saw you at two dumb parties this past weekend. It's like you gotta. You gotta be a presence so people know you and remember you. It's like people, I feel like young, up and coming people in the business, they don't do that as much.

[B]

Well, I mean, when I was an assistant again, I was like doing drinks and coffee seven days a week. Like, I was really out trying to meet people and taking generals with everyone.

[A]

I would say, yes, text chain is not the same.

[B]

Exactly, but. And then. And those people that. Those connections I've made and those relationships, because I'm also a genuine curious person. I like meeting people. Those are people you know. So when I go to these stupid parties, I see people I've known for 15 years, 20 years, and yeah, yeah. My advice to people is don't be a producer. That's my advice.

[A]

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[B]

Well, it was a yes. And so basically I'd made this movie with Eric Andre called Bad Trip. And while making that movie, I became really close with Todd Schulman, who had worked with Sacha Baron Cohen for a long time, works with Adam McKay now and Todd would come in and give us advice. And he had produced Borat and Bruno. And at some point, I went to Todd and I said, you know, no one's ever. You and I have both made movies in this hidden camera genre. No one's ever done it for tv. Why don't we figure that out? And so it was really Todd. We were trying to figure out a premise where someone would be separated from their phone in a very real way and would be isolated. And it was Todd who really came back with. He's like, what about Jury Duty, where there's a natural way to sequester someone and you have the ability to basically pull off these pranks. And our mutual great friend Michael Lasker.

[A]

Oh, guest on the Town manager. Yes.

[B]

One of the most special human beings on earth.

[A]

Award season expert for no reason.

[C]

Exactly.

[B]

He suggested Lee and Gene Eisenberg and Supnitsky, who had run the Office and were great writers, and they had previously written a script called Jury Duty. And we basically repurposed what they had written and turned it into what is now Jury Duty.

[A]

Because there had been, like, Joe Schmo show there, you know, Truman. Truman show, obviously. But, like, the concept of dropping a unsuspecting hero into a scripted sitcom is pretty funny.

[B]

It's the last pitch I ever took out in 2020. February of 2020. We went around and pitched the show to people, and I was insanely sick. So I was in these pitch meetings, probably had Covid. I probably made everyone else sick. But I remember we were pitching the show and people's faces were like, huh? Like, it was so out of the box that people looked at us like we were insane.

[A]

All right, so Amazon buys. It turns out great. You get a bunch of Emmy nominations. People love the show, and then they say, great, make another one. How in the world do you do this twice?

[B]

The new season comes out March 20th.

[A]

It's called On Amazon Prime.

[B]

Amazon Prime. We've graduated to Amazon prime from Freebie.

[A]

You outlived the platform. It premiered on Rip Freebie.

[B]

Yeah. It's amazing. And then it's called Company Retreat.

[A]

No, it's called Jury Duty presents.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Company Retreat. I watched the entire thing. It's hilarious.

[B]

Yeah. So we. We basically went to On a retreat, the small group of us, and it only starts, like, what. What the ending is like. Jury Duty came about. We wanted to figure out, thematically, can someone become the hero of their own story? And can you get a real person to do 12 Angry Men to kind of turn a group of people in Support of someone who's clearly being railroaded in a jury trial. And so we kind of started talking about this idea of David versus Goliath.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And like this mom and pop shops are being kind of cannibalized by these larger tech companies. Ironic that we're doing the show for Amazon.

[A]

Listen, this show is produced by Spotify. Yeah. But we're all, we're all selling out here.

[B]

I love it. And we kind of came, we love, we talked about our love of 80s comedies and like this idea of slobs versus snobs and this idea of Caddyshack and Ski School and Animal House. And what if a real person was put in this position and he kind of bonded with a group of, you know, slobs and the snobs were coming in to kind of take, take over this company. What would a real person do? That's kind of the premise. That's, that was the beginning of it.

[A]

So you've got this company retreat for a hot sauce company and they go to a week long retreat. Everyone's an actor except your guy.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

After going through that whole experience with Ronald in season one, how do you find someone who's not going to immediately say, like, hey, is this Jury Duty? Like, what's going on here?

[B]

Alexis is one of our producers who's amazing at shorts with Sasha also. She's amazing at finding these real people. And there's a really detailed vetting process in terms of we have a sense of who they are and what their interests are. Do they watch comedy? Do they watch Amazon? So we have a sense of what they've seen and we feel pretty confident when they go into this experience. They haven't seen Jury Duty and they're not fans of the genre. I think we had 3,000 applicants and then we kind of down to one person.

[A]

And you only shot one. This isn't one where you shot five versions of the show and then picked the best. No.

[B]

And the truth is Anthony. Really?

[A]

Yeah. The guy's name is Anthony. I don't want to give away too much details of the show, but you found this guy Anthony, who is the most game person and ends up bonding with you. It's kind of amazing. But this is a genre now. The thing that I took away from this is that, oh, this is now. It's like when the Office premiered. It's like, okay, now the mockumentary is a thing. Modern Family can do it. Abbott elementary can do it. I think this is now a genre, the unsuspecting hero genre, because you guys have shown that you can replicate it.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, really, it comes back to that thematic idea. Can someone become the hero of their own story? And I think tonally, what we're trying to do is they're never the brunt of the joke. It's never about them. They're reacting to a scenario and they're making choices. That never puts them in a position to be made fun of or the joke. And it's, you know, not to be corny, but there's something very uplifting, just kind of see. Humanizing and uplifting to see. To be reminded of your good people out in the world who will do the right thing.

[A]

Now you're veering into your awards season narrative. We're not going to do that. It's just funny. It's a hidden camera show.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

You have experience with hidden camera shows, so, like, it's not a surprise that you would be the one to do this.

[B]

Well, thank you. Yeah. I mean, the thing I've learned from doing it is, you know, and people are always like, how can you pull it off? But I think it's actually. It's harder to go. Everyone is here. You'd have to be such a narcissist to go, everyone is here. For me, this is all fake. Everyone has created this role for me. It's much easier to accept what's in front of you than to think you're in the Truman Show.

[A]

Right. But behind the scenes, there's a couple hundred people whose every action are going to influence whether the entire season is split.

[B]

Yes, that's the most stressful. I mean, White Lotus is the hardest thing I have to make. Journey is the most stressful because at any second, any wrong, any mistake could cost the entire shoot. I mean, not to get into details, but we had a moment in the last day of this production that could have fucked the whole thing up. And it was. It was. I can't remember who it was. There was somebody on the set that saved. Saved us. It could have blown the whole thing. And. What a waste.

[A]

Yeah. And in the final episode, you show how everything was done, and there's. I mean, I can say this. There was a moment where there was a fire nearby. And I kept thinking while I was watching you guys, you know, recounting that, like, oh, if the entire set had to be evacuated, there goes the entire show. Because this guy's going to be like, wait a second. Why are there 200 people here?

[B]

My company retreat, we were crammed into a little room. You've seen it like crammed into a little room watching. And then, I mean, our producer, Nick Haddon, who's brilliant, he devised this great idea of how to get us out every night. And buddy sending our guy on a run to kind of pick up coffee every day. And that's how we were able to leave. But yeah, and that's two years of work. You know, it's a long process to make that show. It's longer than White Lotus.

[C]

By the way, what's the contingency plan if, like day six you get discovered.

[B]

There'S really is no contingency plan? That's why I give. So I have so much respect for Amazon being like, here's a lot of money, good luck and you may come back with nothing.

[A]

I was going to say the contingency plan is Amazon sells a lot more toilet paper to make more. To make more show.

[B]

But there is no safety net. We are. We are flying blind and we are hoping that we end up with a good show for people to watch. Stressful.

[A]

Yeah, I can imagine. I don't want to give away any spoilers, but it is really funny.

[B]

I appreciate it. Thank you.

[A]

Do you worry about getting comedies made? We talk about that a lot on this show. You know, I consider White Lotus to be a dark comedy. I know others don't, but I've always thought it's. It's supposed to be a kind of satire of the elites and jury duty, obviously, a comedy. Like, do you have other stuff in production? Do you have other stuff in development? What is the. What is the appetite right now for comedy?

[B]

Yeah, I mean, I'm finishing a movie right now with Eric, Andre, John Cena, Michelle Monahan, Chris Maloney. That's a. It's a hard comedy. It's a throwback. It's like, you know, what about Bob?

[A]

But let me guess, it's going direct to streaming.

[B]

It's a Netflix movie. Yes, it is a Netflix movie, but. And I'm working on a comedy right now with Michael Covino and Kyle Marvin, the splitsville guys at Paramount that I'm really excited about and hopefully we're going to make this year that's a theatrical comedy.

[A]

Do you think Paramount has any appetite for comedies in theaters?

[B]

1,000%.

[A]

I think they do. Now, I'm not talking Naked Gun reboots or Disney doing Freaky Friday. I'm talking original comedies.

[B]

1000%. I was in a meeting, literally the Friday before Christmas with John and Don Granger at Paramount, and we talked about their absolute desire to make more comedies. Theatrically, and I believe them. They're really putting a lot of energy behind this movie. But one thing I would say, like, as a producer, and whether this has been the way I've approached the business, is I'm never thinking about the market. I'm never thinking about what people want. I'm only focused on ideas and filmmakers I want to work with.

[A]

Is that true or that sounds like. Yes. You monitor. You're savvy. You monitor the trades. You say, oh, Paramount just bought two specs in the thriller genre. Where's ours?

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

I don't do that.

[B]

I wish I don't work that way because for me, it's like I have to go out and sell the thing for five, 10 years, and I have to believe in it so I can talk about any of my projects with an authentic passion because I'm not doing it to fill a need. And so that's been successful for me. So I'm not really thinking, to be quite honest, about how hard it is to make comedies. I'm just kind of gravitating towards the things I'm excited about. And that's how jury duty exists. That's why White Lotus exists. My movie Little Brother exists because of that. That's a pitch I sold five years ago and took a lot of development. But that was just because I was excited about working with Eric Andre again and figuring out a movie for him.

[A]

Most difficult. White Lotus cast member.

[B]

No comment. But, yeah.

[A]

Oh, you know. I know you know an answer. Your face immediately said, I know the answer.

[B]

I love. I love everyone equal. I love everyone the same.

[A]

You hate. You probably hate everyone equally by the end of the shoot.

[B]

I would say the hardest thing about White Lotus, the people always give me shit. They're like, is. Imagine living with your co workers. Imagine if you and Craig lived together for six months. So you go to work and you're like, okay, I'll see you later, Craig. And then you go home, and then you see him in the elevator, and then you see him at dinner, and then you see him in breakfast, and then you go to. You know. So that is the hardest thing. We're on top of each other.

[A]

And they're actors. Don't forget they're actors. They're all incredibly crazy.

[B]

The other thing I've realized, too, about being a producer is I represent. I try to be, you know, you're like a party conductor. You want everyone to have a great time, so you want people to like you. You want to have fun. I represent everything. Wrong with the production. So if their flight is messed up, it's my fault. If their breakfast sucks, it's my fault. So I've had to grown to be comfortable with being hated for things that are out of my control.

[A]

I know. And there's all this stuff about who liked who on the White Lotus set last season and who was feuding. And I was just like, I'm sure they all hated each other by the end.

[B]

I think this season's cast really, I feel like there's like, they love each other. And I think the living together makes it hard to walk away from that experience, having 100% a positive experience for everyone.

[A]

All right, well, congrats on White Lotus. Congrats on especially jury duty, season two. Really funny. I hope. I can't wait for people to start seeing it. But maybe we'll have you back after you've done with this season of White Lotus and then you can tell us who you hate from this season, please.

[B]

And you should come visit us.

[A]

I don't want to go. I mean, actually south of France. I would do come visit us.

[B]

I'll find some. I'll find some bad parties for us to go to. We'll have a good time. You come visit that.

[A]

Yeah. Well, you're going to be there during. During the Cannes Film Festival. Maybe I'll come over and see you then.

[B]

Open invite. But congrats to you guys on everything. I love reading the newsletter and I love listening to the podcast. So thank you.

[A]

Thanks. Thanks for coming on. All right, we are back with the call sheet. Craig, first, a little accountability from last week. I took the under on 13 million for mercy, the Chris Pratt in a chair movie. Got a little help from the weather there. It came in at about 10.8 million. Not great for that movie. But I'll take the win and I.

[C]

Will take the over on whatever streaming numbers are projected. That movie is built for Amazon Prime.

[A]

I know. And now they did this big campaign and people are going to get to watch it soon. So it'll probably be great on Chris Pratt. I think Chris Pratt is a streaming star on his own.

[C]

Absolutely.

[A]

Outside of the big franchises.

[C]

100%. And he's in the Mark Wahlberg territory.

[A]

Yes, exactly. So this weekend, pretty interesting weekend at the box office. A lot of new players here. We've already done the Melania movie. Less said about that the better. We have a Jason Statham movie, Shelter that is not expected to do much business. There's a movie from a YouTuber called Iron Lung. We have a whole episode with him tomorrow that we're going to talk about. I want to talk about Send Help. The tracking on this one, about 15 million. Sam Raimi directing, Rachel McAdams and Dylan O' Brien starring. This one is interesting to me because it's 20th Century Fox or 20th Century and essentially means Disney is distributing this. Disney has not had that much success with the non franchise movies, meaning the original, non branded, non sequel. They're very good at getting audiences out for those big Zootopia 2 type movies. Less good at giving the movies that need it a little bit of extra care. But I think the marketing for Send Help has been pretty good.

[C]

Yeah. And I think the subject matter is interesting enough to get people to go see it in a theater. It's kind of. This trope has become pretty common, I feel like movies lately like that, the Ruben Austin movie Triangle of Sadness, the whole end of that movie kind of seems like this, where it's kind of like rich people stranded on an island and then the power dynamics change. It's basically the Lord of the Flies model.

[A]

Yeah. Well, it's giving the little guy the chance to beat up on the big guy is what these movies are.

[C]

Yes. And the little guy in this case is Rachel McAdam.

[A]

Yes. But what's interesting about it is they marketed this movie kind of as a horror movie.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

And I have not seen it yet, but I have heard that it is not really a horror movie. It's more of a kind of fun, almost campy, but not really thriller type date movie. Not horror, even though it's R rated.

[C]

Well. And the marketing is showing Rachel McAdams covered in blood, screaming like Rambo.

[A]

Exactly. And that's. Even if that's not the movie, that's probably the smart way to go. Because as we know, horror is considered theatrical for most audiences.

[C]

And Sam Raimi is associated with movies like the Evil Dead and Drag Me to Hell and things like that.

[A]

Marvel. Yeah. Also Marvel, so. But he's a commercial director. I think that it was smart to market this movie as horror, even if it's not. Even if the audience is a little disappointed. The reviews are really good. 94% on rotten tomatoes. I haven't looked at the Metacritic score, but I'm going to take the over on 15 million for this week. I think this campaign is going to work. I think it's going to overperform.

[C]

Well, the question is, are you willing to go up against Mr. January himself, Jason Statham, who owns January? It's his month.

[A]

I know, but you know what the beekeeper himself. It's not going to work this time. The tracking's at like 5 million for that movie. He could get beaten by Melania.

[C]

So you're not going to take the over on the Statham movie? I don't think I would ever doubt him in January.

[A]

I am not officially going to bet on that one because I have not done any research on it. Rick Roman wa another January guy. This movie does not have Jerry Butler in it but it does have Jason Stathaman Satan. It's called shelter. I don't have an opinion on that one. Let's stick to send help here. I'm going to take the over and I feel pretty strongly about that one.

[C]

I think I agree with you.

[A]

Okay. All right. That's the show for the day. I want to thank my guest Dave Bernad, producer Craig Horlbeck, our editor Jesse Lopez and Jon Jones. And I want to thank you. We'll see you one more time this week.