← The Town with Matthew Belloni
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- [00:00]
Rob Harvilla
Look, it's not that confusing. I'm Rob Harvilla, host of the podcast 60 Songs that Explain the 90s. Except we did 120 songs and now we're back with the 2000s. I refuse to say aughts. 2000 to 2009. The Strokes, Rihanna, JLo, Kanye.
- [00:17]
Matt Bellany
Sure.
- [00:18]
Rob Harvilla
And now the show is called 60 Songs that Explain the 90s. Colon, the 2000s. Wow, that's too long a title for me to say anything else right now, Just trust me. That's 60 songs that explain the 90s. Cole in the 2000s preference preferably on Spotify.
- [00:36]
Matt Bellany
This episode of the Town is brought to you by MAX Presenting Hacks for your Emmy consideration. Starring Gene Smart and Hannah Einbinder, the new season picks up with Deborah Vance's late night show finally in production and Ava Daniels stepping in as head writer. To Deborah's dismay, their ever complicated relationship is pushed to new limits as they clash over creative direction and get entangled in blackmail and betrayal. Don't miss the series Slate says has never been better. Emmy eligible for Outstanding Comedy Series and all other categories. Now streaming on max, this episode is brought to you by Focus Features and Indian Paintbrush Presenting the Phoenician Scheme, an epic comedy adventure from director Wes Anderson, starring Benicio Del Toro, Mia Threpleton, Michael Cera and an all star cast follow Zsaza Korda as he races to survive assassinations, win back his daughter and pull off the scheme of a lifetime. The Phoenician scheme rated PG13 only in theaters Friday. It is Wednesday, May 21st. Last week at the YouTube Upfront in New York, there were stars everyone knows like Lady Gaga, MrBeast, Rob Gronkowski. There were several I didn't know at all. And then there was Sean Evans, who's definitely famous to me and big enough of a deal that YouTube put him on stage at its big pitch to advertisers. At this point, if you're at least semi online, you've heard of Hot Ones, his interview show where celebrities are grilled while eating progressively spicier chicken wings. It's a great concept, it's funny on its own, but it also works really well to move past the publicist talking points that most stars bring to regular talk shows. But it wouldn't really work if Evans wasn't also a great interviewer. It's really impressive, actually. I'd put him up there with Letterman and Kimmel as being very good at surprising his guests and wringing interesting anecdotes out of them. Evans co created hot ones in 2015 with Chris Schonberger of First We Feast, the former Complex magazine property that produces the show. First We Feast now has more than 14 million subscribers and more than 4 billion views on YouTube. Complex was sold to Buzzfeed, which was then sold again. But Buzzfeed kept First we Feast until December when it was sold for $82.5 million to investors including Evans himself, Schonberger, the podcast company Crooked Media, YouTubers Rhett and Lynx Company and George Soros, the media backers fund. So Evans finally controls his show and YouTube is doing an Emmy campaign for him for the first time. So it's a good time to have him on the town to discuss it all. Today it's Sean Evans, Hot Ones and the new iteration of late night tv. From the ringer and Puck, I'm Matt Bellany and this is the. All right. We are here with a very special episode. We have Sean Evans, host of Hot Ones. Welcome, Sean.
- [03:29]
Sean Evans
Thanks so much for having me. I'm a longtime listener, first time caller, and I would like to say I'd like to give a shout out to producer Craig. I'd like to give a shout out to producer Craig, who's been a ride or die with us for years. So I always listen. I always appreciate the support. Thank you so much, Craig. I wish we were face to face so I could give you a bottle of champagne or something.
- [03:52]
Matt Bellany
That is very nice, Craig. You must be honored.
- [03:54]
Craig Horlbeck
You can have me on your show. That's your gift to me. I'll be your least famous guest.
- [03:58]
Matt Bellany
Exactly. Craig wants to do two shows in tv. He wants to do Survivor and he wants to do Hot Ones.
- [04:04]
Craig Horlbeck
I don't know which one's harder.
- [04:06]
Matt Bellany
Yeah, you came to our live show, too, in Vegas. I appreciate you doing that with Kimmel.
- [04:10]
Sean Evans
Of course. I'm a longtime listener. I think I listen to you guys in the gym. Every time you guys have a new episode up, that's the soundtrack to my weight.
- [04:19]
Matt Bellany
I get that a lot. People get so infuriated with me. They. It motivates them to lift more weights. By the way, do you think of yourself as a journalist?
- [04:26]
Sean Evans
No, I really think of myself as a host and entertainer first and foremost.
- [04:31]
Matt Bellany
But you do have a journalism background. I mean, you worked at Complex and you studied that.
- [04:35]
Sean Evans
I mean, for sure. But I've always looked at the show as one that, you know, celebrates more than it scrutinizes, and that's much more the place that I'd rather be when it comes to hosting a show.
- [04:47]
Matt Bellany
Interesting. All right, so I want to get into your process and how you put the show together, but I wanted to start with the news, as we often do. You have this new deal. BuzzFeed finally parted with your company first with Feast. $82 million deal. Interesting investors here. It's the Soros Group, Crooked Media, which is the positive America guys. Some YouTubers, Rhett and Link their company, and then you and your CEO. So, like, how did this investor group come together and how tough was it for you to extricate the company from BuzzFeed?
- [05:18]
Sean Evans
Well, I think when you're going through a situation like this, it forces you to think about a lot of outcomes for things that you'd never really thought about before. And, you know, there were interesting things that were brought to me, stuff that looked exciting on paper, like the idea of plugging into something bigger and thinking about the ways that the synergies of that could help Hot Ones or doing the Taylor Swift thing and doing Hot Ones. But Sean's version, you know, all these.
- [05:42]
Matt Bellany
Things that were brought to rerecording all your episodes with all the guests.
- [05:46]
Sean Evans
Yeah, exactly. But the thing that I thought about and what made it important to me is I really love doing this show because of the people that I make it with. It's a very comfortable cockpit seat for me to sit in. And if it wasn't for that, like, I don't know if I could continue doing that. So it was very important to me that we extracted the Jenga piece as clean as possible, kept all of the people, kept this enormous back catalog, kept the hot sauce business, kept this distribution model where everyone knows Thursdays at 11am on the First We YouTube channel is where you can find it. So once I kind of put all that on paper, then the scope of the deal really kind of narrowed. And it was complicated because we had to figure out a deal that worked for us, that worked for the show, that worked for buzzfeed, that worked for Sora, like, you know, worked for the investors, worked for sfm, like all of these different things. So once that was kind of where we were headed, then it was just about threading that needle. And it was a long and arduous process and complicated deal, of course, to extract that kind of IP from a publicly traded company. But I'm happy to say that we're on the other side of it. And we were able to get 100% sign up from the employees at first. We feast over to the new venture and we're off and running.
- [06:59]
Matt Bellany
It's interesting because I would not have Thought of George Soros as an investor for you. I mean, typically he invests in things that are more ideologically aligned. Crooked media, they're Obama guys and you are an explicitly non political show.
- [07:13]
Sean Evans
Yeah, and it's going to remain that way. I mean, it was important for us to have the creative and editorial control over the whole thing. And they really bought into what we bring as a team and the power of the IP and all of those things. So we were actually very much aligned from early talks all the way to the end.
- [07:30]
Matt Bellany
So we're not going to have an AOC episode or Mayor Pete or any, you know, any of the favored candidates.
- [07:36]
Sean Evans
You never know.
- [07:37]
Matt Bellany
Actually. AOC would probably be great on Hot Ones.
- [07:39]
Sean Evans
Yeah, yeah. But I think like you never really know. It was always an ethical debate for me. Like I was just saying to you earlier about like a show that celebrates more than scrutinizes and there feels, it feels like there's so much less at stake when it's a movie star that has a new film coming out as opposed to like an actual real power broker. But of course those rules have changed so much just over this last year on the sort of appropriate venues for these kinds of interviews with these kinds of people.
- [08:07]
Matt Bellany
So I mean, you could probably get Trump if you wanted him.
- [08:10]
Sean Evans
I mean, he's the most experienced talk show guest anyone who's ever had office.
- [08:16]
Matt Bellany
And he's experienced at eating food. That is bad for him.
- [08:20]
Sean Evans
That's true too. But I think overall the things that I enjoyed and that inspired me growing up is true escapism, television. And that's always been important to me and kind of where I draw the line on the show.
- [08:32]
Matt Bellany
Yeah, how do you draw the line on guests? Because I think a lot of people in my audience are looking at your show as like the new late night. If you can get a booking on Hot Ones, especially if you've got a project coming up, that's a coup. How do you determine who gets in and who doesn't?
- [08:48]
Sean Evans
Well, I think that we straddle an interesting place where we kind of have one foot in the mainstream and one foot in the culty Internet side of things. And I really do enjoy that positioning. So whenever we're building out a season, we just think about a variety of personalities. You know, people from the world of sports, people from the world of music, people from the world of TV and film and how we can mix those things up. Because it is such a stripped down set, you just have the black curtains. A generic looking Bald Guy has 10 hot sauces and the wings. The way that it's a different watch experience every single time is that each episode serves as an extension of the guest personality. So I think that it's important to draw from people from all different kinds of walks of life inside the entertainment ecosystem.
- [09:31]
Matt Bellany
Have you ever had conversations with Tom Cruise's people?
- [09:33]
Sean Evans
You know, of course we've tried. You know, that's a tough nut to grab.
- [09:37]
Matt Bellany
Very difficult, and especially in. He doesn't like environments that he doesn't know exactly what's going to happen. And you ask real questions.
- [09:47]
Sean Evans
Well, you know, it's an open invite whenever he wants. I think he's kind of the prized white whale that we're chasing right now, right along the wall.
- [09:55]
Matt Bellany
It would be amazing. It would be amazing. I do think Tom Cruise knows what a chicken wing is.
- [10:00]
Sean Evans
I doubt he knows what the show is. I saw this clip recently. He was sitting down with Ali Plum, and he was, like, showing him memes for the first time. Tom Cruise is cracking up, and I could tell that it was the first time that he'd ever even been introduced to the concept of memes. You know, like, it caught him.
- [10:15]
Matt Bellany
I don't think he's allowed to look at the Internet.
- [10:17]
Sean Evans
Yeah. So I think he probably has no idea. But I think that if he did see it, I think we'd have a shot at it.
- [10:22]
Craig Horlbeck
I think you'd have to offer him, like, the hottest wings that anyone's ever done, and maybe he would do it. You'd have to really turn up the heat level and make it some extreme sport that's never been done.
- [10:31]
Sean Evans
Well, I am open to that. If he's listening, I am open to that.
- [10:34]
Matt Bellany
Yeah. You guys could both ride motorcycles together and eat wings.
- [10:37]
Sean Evans
That's awesome.
- [10:38]
Matt Bellany
So you launched this show in 2015. When did you start making real money as a creator? How long did it take?
- [10:47]
Sean Evans
It took a couple of years. You know, we always joke early on that the show was. It was not a big hit right when it came out the gate. And I always talk to Chris. I'm like, I'm eating really spicy food and no one cares. You know, I'm not sure how sustainable this is. Our first big episode was with Key and Peele. That was kind of a breakout moment where, you know, we wake up the next day and it has millions of views. And you can see the way that even the entire back catalog had a huge jump in views, too. And that was a really validating moment because I'm like, people are discovering the show, and then they're binging the whole back catalog. It's not like, oh, these are Key and Peele fans that rallied around this specific episode. This was just a mass discovery event. Some were kind of off to the races, and there are these different tent pole moments along the way, but it was definitely not an overnight success story.
- [11:34]
Matt Bellany
Yeah, I didn't come in until Jennifer Lawrence. I think that was the first one that I. Yeah, exactly. And it was so good. How much do you obsess over the analytics of your show? Do you look at the underlying data and where people tend to drop off? Are you a Mr. Beast type? Where, you know, the thumbnail is engineered to get the most possible engagement?
- [11:55]
Sean Evans
So if Chris were here, he would tell you. I've never looked at the analytics ever in my entire life. I've never looked at any analytics. I've never been in the back end of our channel. It's just all off of gut, which I think is important. You know, like we yin yang. Well, you know, he's a Harvard guy. He's in the numbers. He's into that stuff. But I'm just more from the gut and just kind of understanding what people want to watch, maybe even more than they do. And I think that we work together well as just kind of two beasts that are coming at it from two different angles that way. But I've never once in my entire career looked at analytics.
- [12:31]
Matt Bellany
And obviously you prepare a lot for these interviews. What's your research process like? Do you still. Do you have a research team?
- [12:37]
Sean Evans
Not a team. I mean, I hired my little brother years ago to kind of help with the lift, but otherwise it's the same small group of people doing the show now as it was in the beginning. But, you know, that's not a tedious part of the job for me at all. That is my favorite part of the job is walking a mile in someone else's shoes and kind of marinating in their work and in their life for maybe. You know, I'd ideally like to have a week in which I can do that. But, you know, if we're doing something with Lady Gaga, I'll listen to all the music, I'll put together the playlist, and that'll be the soundtrack of my life for that week. And I'll marinate in that. You know, if it's an actor that's coming on, I'll try to watch, like, the whole filmography and my night with, like, a little double feature every time. And then, of course, we're also in the mud, you know, reading the profiles and watching all the YouTube interviews and trying to get as much of a grasp on this person as possible. Because in the end of the day, at the end of the day, I think that's what makes writing the interview a little bit easier. The more you know, the better you can see the inroads. The things that you find interesting are likely the things that your audience will find interesting. So you just try to find ways to extrapolate on that in new ways and then hope for the best. But yeah, a lot of armchair psychology, a lot of reading and a lot of watching.
- [13:44]
Matt Bellany
Do you see yourself as a competitor to the late night guys? If they asked a question or went down a certain road with a guest, you're. Are you going to avoid it?
- [13:53]
Sean Evans
Yeah, I think if they have a big moment on a late night show or whatever, then you'll kind of let that be. But one thing I will pay attention to is when people sort of leave something on the table and don't really.
- [14:05]
Matt Bellany
Explore it, which happens a lot on those shows. I mean, that's my biggest frustration is that they're so meted out and pre planned that often, yeah, they'll ask an interesting question, but they don't answer and there's no follow up or they give a tease of an answer and then they've got to hit the five plugs for their movies so they just don't follow up. And I feel like you do.
- [14:27]
Sean Evans
That's your pet peeve. But that's me mining for gold. Like, I love those moments. So whenever something gets left on the table, I'm always like, that's a Hot Ones question right there. So I look for those things. And as far as being in competition with all of these, you know, I do think that, you know, when you look at the shows that have defined, you know, this Emmy category for so long, I think they're all the through line with all of them is they're the de facto cultural reference point for where you can find celebrities and looser and edgier environments. So if that's the definition that we're going with, then I think that we're very much worthy of comparison and competition with those shows. And I do think about it like I do, you know, see how when a guest is on a press run and, you know, Ryan Reynolds and Hugh Jackman are making the rounds, how does their performance on Hot Ones compare to all the other stops that they've been on? You know, I do pay attention to those things.
- [15:22]
Matt Bellany
Yeah, well, you got to. Especially if, you know you're part of.
- [15:25]
Sean Evans
A press tour a hundred percent. So I do. Like, I'd be lying to you if I said I didn't pay attention to that or think about that.
- [15:32]
Matt Bellany
So what does the waiver look like? This is the lawyer in me talking. What does the waiver look like for your show? I mean, it's gotta be pretty intense.
- [15:40]
Sean Evans
It's, it's ironclad at this point, but early on we did like no paperwork. It's, it is funny to think about, like kind of where we started. We never really made a show, but for. So, yeah, we just used to bring people in and then serve them the world's spiciest wings. But yeah, at this point, there are some signatures required before you step into the hot seat.
- [15:58]
Matt Bellany
So nobody can ever sue you. Nobody can ever say they didn't realize it was going to be so hot, et cetera, et cetera.
- [16:04]
Sean Evans
Well, I don't know how lawyers can make any kind of case they want. I guess, you know, we're totally safe from that sort of a thing. But so far so good.
- [16:15]
Matt Bellany
Today's episode is brought to you by Peacock. Presenting the Day of the Jackal for your Emmy consideration. Eddie Redmayne and Lashana lynch star in the original drama series Variety calls an exhilarating thriller. The series follows a lone assassin and an intelligence officer in a cat and mouse chase across Europe. The Day of the Jackal is streaming now only on Peacock. This episode is brought to you by Netflix. Presenting the Diplomat from writer and creator Deborah Kahn, Keri Russell and Rufus Sewell return with Allison Janney joining in the explosive second season as U.S. ambassador Kate Wyler navigates high stakes diplomacy and a fraught marriage in search of the truth. The Guardian lauds the Diplomat a masterclass in storytelling, and Indiewire hails it one of the best shows of the year. For your Emmy consideration. Craig has had a beef with the show with certain episodes. He thinks that certain guests are given less spicy wings because he doesn't understand how Ariana Grande can just power through all 10 of them when some people are like literally dying.
- [17:21]
Craig Horlbeck
Can you confirm that you have watered down the spice for celebrities?
- [17:25]
Matt Bellany
Yes. No.
- [17:26]
Sean Evans
I will fully deny that you've never done that. I deny that we've ever that we nerfed the wings. And I'll also say this because I also get this all the time, that people are like, well, Sean's not really reacting. I bet he, his wings aren't as sauced, you know. And I feel like when I do react, people think that I'm like faking it to match the guests energy. And when I don't react, then the wings aren't sourced. You know, I'm in a no win situation here. But I'm always open to, like, if a guest wants to swap paddles with me, they can. And to the Ariana Grande point, like, she hit me up afterwards and said that she tried it again and that she had like, no reaction. Sent me like videos of a video of her, like doing it with the family and made it through again.
- [18:09]
Matt Bellany
So she's just immune. She's like Ellie on the Last of Us. She just cannot be be hurt.
- [18:13]
Sean Evans
And every. I think every season there's a guest. We also. Demi Moore came in and she was like, do you have anything hotter? You know, like, you do end up in these moments where I think once per season, once per season, there's a guest who walks me like a dog on my own show, who is dunking on me on my own show. But that's just like the magic of peppers. Everyone's sensitivity to them is different. Everybody reacts to them in different ways. And then they're also doing it in this bizarre context of being on a TV show. So you never know. You know, I think half the battle of a Hot Ones interview is mental and the way that those things all come together can be different. So, yeah, I think you just have those episodes and then you also have people that are tapping out or that are smoked out by the third or fourth wing. So it's just you never know what to expect. As predictable as the format of the show is, the actual show is very unpredictable.
- [19:04]
Craig Horlbeck
You don't have to name names, but has anyone ever asked to water down the spice level and you have to put your foot down and say, we don't name.
- [19:10]
Matt Bellany
Come on, name names, please.
- [19:11]
Sean Evans
How about I do this? I won't name names because we put our guests through enough and I don't want them to catch a Daily Mail expose after this interview. But I'll leave you and Craig up to guests. But there are three funny pitches that stand out in my memory. One, I remember we had a big star say that they would agree to do Hot Ones, but only if we shot it on the Ferris wheel at Coachella. That was one pitch that I remember.
- [19:36]
Matt Bellany
Another DiCaprio. That's Leo DiCaprio, I'm sure.
- [19:40]
Sean Evans
Another pitch that I remember was someone who said, what if they just eat the first wing and then have their assistant come on and eat the rest of the gauntlet? Like, wouldn't that be a Funny.
- [19:51]
Matt Bellany
Oh, my God. Throwing the assistant under the bus.
- [19:53]
Sean Evans
Throwing the assistant under the bus. I was like, I'm not sure about the optics there. And then we had another one that was, can we shoot it on the private plane? Like, can we shoot this on the pj? In order to save some time in their busy, busy lives. So those are three pitches that.
- [20:11]
Matt Bellany
That actually would be kind of funny.
- [20:13]
Craig Horlbeck
They're all Leonardo DiCaprio, I think.
- [20:15]
Matt Bellany
Yeah, exactly. They all could fit. You don't do that. You don't travel the show. They have to come to you, right?
- [20:21]
Sean Evans
No, we actually. We do travel the show.
- [20:23]
Matt Bellany
Oh, you do?
- [20:24]
Sean Evans
Yeah. Like, right now I'm out. I live in New York, but right now I'm out here in LA to do some work. But the show travels. You know, we'll go to London, we'll set the studio up in a hotel. You know, we'll just rent a suite, take the bed out and hang the curtains from the ceiling and shoot an episode. So I would say half of them are from our home studio in New York, and then half of them are wherever we can shoot them.
- [20:45]
Matt Bellany
If the guest is really getting into it and crying and really hurting. Has the publicist ever tried to step in and end things?
- [20:53]
Sean Evans
You know, not really. You know, like, publicists used to be much more honest than they are now. You know, I remember early on, people.
- [21:00]
Matt Bellany
Are always, well, you have leverage. You're so big.
- [21:02]
Sean Evans
Yeah, exactly. Which is a nice place to be. So I remember getting suffocated by publicists early on, and now they've all kind of stepped away and let the action happen. And if anything, I've noticed that when a guest that we have is dying on spice, you'll oftentimes see the publicist laughing and having the best time ever with it. You know, it is a moment where you see the boss kind of breaking down. So I think that they find their own appeal in that, in an interesting way.
- [21:29]
Matt Bellany
Well, they know it's going to be a viral moment. They know that this is going to be something that is going to be additive for them.
- [21:34]
Sean Evans
Yeah, it's an evil laugh. Like, if anything, recently I've had more like, kind of positive experiences with publicists where maybe they say, you know, like, we only have 40 minutes. It's like a hard time. And then they see how the interview is going and then they kind of kill the heart out.
- [21:47]
Matt Bellany
Obviously, you never thought you'd become the hot wings guy. With the new funding, with the new investors, how do you plan to evolve this thing? Do you want to be doing hot ones in 10 additional years, do you want to expand out? Like, what does the Hot Ones universe look like in three to five years?
- [22:06]
Sean Evans
I think that we want to build on the content. I think that we want to build on the experience side of things. I think that there's interesting ways to leverage the IP in order to take the thing kind of of international. But as much as things could possibly change, I really love how things have stayed the same. You know, we haven't done any real big wholesale changes with the show. It's still, hey, what's going on, everybody? From first, we feast. I'm Sean Evans. You're watching Hot Ones. This is our guest. This is what you know them from. And then at the end, we grab the last dab. This is the last dab. This camera, this camera. Let the people know what you have going on in your life. Nothing about that has changed since the beginning. Even the way that we make the show is almost the exact same now as it was in season one. So in a lot of ways, I Hope the next 10 years look a lot like the last 10 years. I really love doing the show and with the people that I do it with, and I am sort of afraid of change in a lot of ways. And you can see that reflected in what we do.
- [23:01]
Matt Bellany
Well, but you also didn't own it before, so you didn't have agency over what you got to do, really. I mean, you could have always left, but, like, now we see a lot of these big YouTube creators like Ms. Rachel, Mr. Beast, etc. They're doing deals with the big subscription streamers, like, do you want a Netflix show? Is there a version of Hot Ones that would work on Amazon?
- [23:23]
Sean Evans
Yeah, I mean, I think that when you see, like, the success of what Jimmy had with Beast Games, and, you know, that is a question that kind of gets asked to people who come from the YouTube side of things, more so than I think anyone else in entertainment. You know, like, no one ever asked, like, Seth Rogen, oh, you have a show on Apple Plus. Like, are you going to do a Netflix show or whatever? You know, like, you're part of all these things.
- [23:44]
Matt Bellany
Well, but it's subscription versus free. I mean, there. Maybe I'm just spitballing, like, maybe there's a version of All Stars for Hot Ones where you bring back the 10 people who are most resistant to the hot sauce, and then they have a competition to see who could go the hottest.
- [24:01]
Sean Evans
Yeah, I mean, all of those things are interesting, and there have been some interesting conversations that are ongoing. But overall, I think the most important things for any creative person, it really comes down to just four things. You know, it's eyeballs, it's scale, it's money, it's creative and editorial freedom, and it's prestige. And I think that, you know, the streamers that optimize for all of those things the best are probably who's going to win the talent wars. But I don't know if it's yet to be seen what that deal exactly looks like, because the idea of, you know, doing a show but having uncertainty about the future of it or something that could get canceled after one season, even if the economics are good, that is not necessarily like a great one to one, like poaching transaction when you.
- [24:46]
Matt Bellany
Could have, well, it's great if they give you $100 million.
- [24:49]
Sean Evans
Yeah, that's true. So I guess it's case by case.
- [24:51]
Matt Bellany
Yeah. Bella, give Sean a call. Netflix should have a hot one show.
- [24:55]
Sean Evans
But it is interesting to think about, you know, the things that you could do that maybe you can't do on YouTube and the idea of being across these different platforms, especially after, you know, kind of dominating one for so long and thinking about the ways that we can give our fans more of what they like without necessarily, you know, going away from making the main thing. The main thing, totally.
- [25:18]
Matt Bellany
You could have a Bourdain style show where you travel the country or the world where, you know, you go to the hottest wings in the world.
- [25:24]
Sean Evans
100%.
- [25:25]
Matt Bellany
That is a total Netflix show. I'm available as your agent for representation.
- [25:31]
Sean Evans
It sounds like you're after producer credit. And I'm not mad.
- [25:33]
Matt Bellany
I know I am. Craig, do you want to weigh in here?
- [25:36]
Craig Horlbeck
Sure. I wanted to ask Sean, who, in your opinion is doing celebrity interviews the best right now, outside of what you guys are doing with hot ones. Who is innovating? What are you watching? What are you listening to? Who's kind of doing something new, you.
- [25:47]
Sean Evans
Know, when I look around at the landscape, I really like what Caleb Presley does with Sunday conversation. You know, my best friend in this whole thing and the person that I'm inspired by most. And when I see them face to face, I feel like I'm having these conversations that I can only have with one person in the world, and that's Emelia de Moldenberg. You know, and it is kind of funny that we started these shows at about the same time from opposite side sides of the pond. And somehow, some way, two of the most desired press tour stops have become shows in which you Eat fried chicken on camera.
- [26:18]
Matt Bellany
She was on the red carpet of the Oscars.
- [26:20]
Sean Evans
Yeah, I saw her there, actually. So it's really awesome to see what she does. And I'm always in her corner and rooting for her. But also, too, like, I would like to say that I do have great respect for the institution of late night. You know, that's what I grew up on. Guys like Letterman and Conan and. And Steven and Jimmy's and Seth, who's been, like, so good to who. Many of them have been so good to us. So, you know, as much ink is spilled about the state of late night, I still have great respect and admiration for it.
- [26:52]
Matt Bellany
Well, those guys are going to be probably the last late night hosts, and you could potentially do this for 30 more years if your stomach lining can take it.
- [27:03]
Sean Evans
I'll take it.
- [27:04]
Matt Bellany
Yeah. Have you had any health issues?
- [27:06]
Sean Evans
No. You know, I'm happy to report a clean bill of health. The numbers just keep coming back stronger. And I think the key to that is I take so much better care of myself outside of the show, knowing that there is this kind of toll that it's gonna take on me physically. So I think that the net on it has been positive, but maybe that's just a delusional idiot talking himself into something.
- [27:26]
Craig Horlbeck
What's the game day routine? Do you have, like, are you taking Prilosec that morning? Like, how do you. Are you lubricating the throat? What's the movement?
- [27:33]
Sean Evans
Here's what I'll say. And they're not paying me to say this, but Tums is a great product. They make a good product.
- [27:41]
Matt Bellany
Are you just, like, popping them? Popping them between interviews all day, after.
- [27:44]
Sean Evans
An interview, Chase an interview with the Toms, always. But overall, I don't do that much, like, beforehand, it's better to under eat than overeat. So, like, half a bagel or a banana, so much better than a full stomach. And then as far as, you know, the after show goes. I really appreciate this peaceful moment in my life where I go back to the hotel room or back to my apartment after a shoot. I put on some basketball shorts, I crank the ac. Everyone knows that at that point, I'm off email, I'm off the grid. And it's kind of just this very Zen moment in my week that I've really come to appreciate.
- [28:19]
Matt Bellany
You, like, sweat it out. You just sit there and, like, marinate in the hot sauce.
- [28:23]
Sean Evans
I just marinate, sweat it out. And then I'm on to the next.
- [28:27]
Matt Bellany
All right, well, you're doing the Lord's work. Really appreciate the show. Good luck to you. Honestly, you need like a travelogue show.
- [28:36]
Sean Evans
We're on it. I know that. And you're worthy of a producer credit. I'll put that.
- [28:40]
Matt Bellany
Yes, exactly. Craig can have the credit. You bring Craig with you cross country.
- [28:45]
Sean Evans
I'm poaching Craig. That's my Netflix poach move.
- [28:49]
Matt Bellany
We are back with the call sheet. Craig. Mission Impossible the Final Reckoning. We've been waiting. Neither of us has seen it. The premiere, the US Premiere was in New York. I've been out of town, have not gone to any screenings. Neither have you. We will both see this movie, but neither has. What do you think?
- [29:07]
Craig Horlbeck
I'm excited to see this movie in theaters. I hear the action sequences are amazing. Perhaps the best that Cruise has ever done. But man, this movie is 2 hours and 49 minutes. And I can't help but feel like this franchise feels pretty stale now. And I'm worried about how this movie's gonna do.
- [29:24]
Matt Bellany
Yeah, I am too. I have it in the box office draft. There's virtually no way this movie can make money. Which is kind of interesting for Paramount and Skydance. It cost about $400 million after all the COVID delays and all the reshoots. And they had to retinker it because the last one didn't do as well as they thought it was going to do. And they refashioned it into kind of an endgame thing where it's the final reckoning, not Dead Reckoning Part 2. The reviews, you know, you go on social media and people have been crapping on it, but the tomatometer is at 80%. So reviews overall kind of positive. It's opened in a couple foreign territories already, India, Korea, and it's doing fine. It's not like these movies don't do a billion dollars. That's the crazy thing. They cost like they gross a billion dollars, but they don't. And the last one only got to 571 worldwide. The tracking is about 75. 80 for the four day weekend. It's going to get trounced by Lilo and Stitch. So where should we put the line? Like 77? Let's put it at 77.
- [30:33]
Craig Horlbeck
Which dead reckoning part one. That opened to 78 over the five day.
- [30:38]
Matt Bellany
Right, but that was not a holiday weekend.
- [30:40]
Craig Horlbeck
Correct. But they put it out on a Wednesday. It was like July 12th or something. And it made 78 over five days. It made 54 over the three day.
- [30:47]
Matt Bellany
Oh God, this is so hard. I'm taking the under you're taking the under on 77, I think so I'm going to take the over on 77. I think that it will outperform the last one. And Cruz has done more press for this one. He was on Fallon on Monday night. He's done a lot more sit down interviews, which he typically doesn't do. I mean they're all like, has he.
- [31:12]
Craig Horlbeck
I haven't really seen a lot of that. I was going to ask you if you think that like Cruz is basically unwillingness to enter the modern era of press tour now, like doing Hot Ones with Sean, doing the O Vaughn, talking to Bill Simmons, doing all that stuff. Do you think that is coming back to hurt him now?
- [31:32]
Matt Bellany
Yeah, a little bit. I mean, he's been unwilling to do any interviews that are substantive. Like he has his talking points he wants. You know, even at Cannes someone asked him about tariffs or whatever and he's just like, I'd prefer to talk about the movie.
- [31:44]
Craig Horlbeck
Right.
- [31:45]
Matt Bellany
So yeah, if he were to open up on one of these big press outlets and do a real interview, maybe it would get more attention for the movie. But he's just not willing to do that.
- [31:53]
Craig Horlbeck
No, he's not really getting in front of people who are in their teens, 20s and 30s, who are online a lot, and women.
- [31:59]
Matt Bellany
He still has problems with women going all the way back to the Suri cruise stuff and the couch jumping. And my colleague at Puck, Kim Masters, wrote a. A long piece about that. It's 20 years since the couch jumping incident and he still has problems with his likability with women. And that shows in these box office numbers because the Mission franchise has become heavily male skewing. So listen, I know you're kind of talking me out of it, but I still think that he is doing more press, he's done more TV stuff, he's making the rounds. And I think that it will get just above 77 for this weekend.
- [32:36]
Craig Horlbeck
It just doesn't feel different to me enough. And I think people are going to the theaters now for different, for fresh. Even if it's ip, you know, Barbie, Oppenheimer, Minecraft, Sinners. Although some of those are ip, but at least they felt fresh and different. I fear this movie is feeling like Fast X or something.
- [32:53]
Matt Bellany
Yeah.
- [32:54]
Craig Horlbeck
Where nothing really feels different about this one.
- [32:56]
Matt Bellany
The other benefit he has over last time is he's got the IMAX screens, which was a real problem for the last one. It had him on the opening weekend, but then they lost him immediately to Oppenheimer. And this time he's got the IMAX screens doesn't have all the PLFs. Lilo and stitch will have some, but I think IMAX is going to boost him. It's going to be a big IMAX movie.
- [33:16]
Craig Horlbeck
That's the other thing. I think if they really wanted to get this to the finish line, I think Cruz should have done press saying, this is my last one, and maybe that would have gotten people to the theaters.
- [33:25]
Matt Bellany
He can't say that, though. Well, he could say anything, but I don't think it is. He doesn't want to commit to that. But you know what? What he really should have done is married Ana de Armas in a public ceremony on the Today show, and then everybody would be talking about it.
- [33:38]
Craig Horlbeck
I don't know. I'm gonna see it. I think there's gonna be. The action sequences are gonna be amazing enough where I think people will leave the theater having a good time, which is what Cruz is all about. People will be like, if that was worth seeing. I think, however, I don't know how many new people are gonna get out of bed to see this first weekend when they kind of already know what it's going to be and what it's been in the past.
- [33:56]
Matt Bellany
Yeah. All right, that's the show for today. I want to thank my guest, Sean Evans, producer Craig Horlbeck, artist Jesse Lopez. I want to thank you. We'll see one more time this week.