← The Town with Matthew Belloni
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- [00:00]
Matt Bellany
If you care about Hollywood, and I assume you do, if you're listening to the Town, you should really be getting.
- [00:04]
Craig Horlbeck
The whole story about Hollywood. That's what you get with Puck.
- [00:07]
Matt Bellany
I'm a founding partner Puck and I write a newsletter called what I'm Hearing. It's got exclusive news for insiders and analysis of the biggest stories. Puck has a bunch of great journalists. We just hired Kim Masters, who also covers Hollywood from the inside, plus media, sports, fashion, politics and finance. It's a must have for plugged in people. Fans of the Town get a discount on the description page of this episode or at Puck News thetown. Go further into Hollywood by becoming a.
- [00:33]
Mike Birbiglia
Puck member Today, critics and audiences agree Netflix's Nobody Wants this is the best comedy of the year.
- [00:40]
E
You're the Rabbi. It's hot, right?
- [00:41]
Mike Birbiglia
The Hollywood Reporter raves. Kristen Bell and Adam Brody share crackling chemistry.
- [00:45]
E
Is there a world where this works?
- [00:46]
Mike Birbiglia
Yeah, Nobody wants this is 2024's winner of the American Film Institute TV program.
- [00:51]
E
Of the Year, Godspeed Hot Rabbi.
- [00:53]
Mike Birbiglia
It sets the romantic comedy standard for the new age.
- [00:56]
E
You called Front of the teens whose opinion I care about most. That was so sus.
- [01:01]
Mike Birbiglia
Nobody Wants this for your Emmy consideration in all categories, including Outstanding Comedy Series.
- [01:06]
Craig Horlbeck
The Town is supported by FX's Dying for Sex. Starring Michelle Williams, Jenny Slate, Rob Delaney and Jay Duplass, the series follows Molly, who goes on an adventure to explore her sexual desires after being diagnosed with stage four metastatic breast cancer. Supported by her best friend Nikki, who stays by her side until the very end, Variety calls Dying for Sex superb and defiantly joyful, Dying for Sex is Emmy eligible in all limited series categories. All episodes now available on Hulu. It is Tuesday, May 27. As recently as about 10 or 15 years ago, there was a pretty clear path to fame and fortune for a standup comic. You work the clubs hoping to get discovered, and if you were lucky, you get a sitcom or SNL or an HBO Special or maybe even a late night TV show. If you really broke through. That was the pinnacle. These days, that's all gone. Or at least it's not necessary or even desirable for the top comics performers like Nate Bragazzi, Shane Gillis, Nikki Glaser, Jo Koy, Katt Williams, Matt Rife. They're grossing tens of millions of dollars on tour, hosting lucrative podcasts, building fan communities themselves on YouTube or other platforms, and then selling specials to Netflix or maybe some TV or acting gigs. But for most of them, it's a side gig, not the goal. That's Certainly the case with my guest today. In the 90s or 2000s, Mike Birbiglia would have been a perfect candidate for a hit sitcom. Smart comic sensibility, storytelling skills, an everyman look and demeanor, a Ray Romano type. And in fact, CBS made a pilot with him back in 2008, but it didn't go. And his career trajectory since then is a perfect example of the new path for top comics. He's done six one man shows, very successful touring. Four have become Netflix specials, including a new one called the Good Life, which is out this week. It's in the top 10 right now. He's directed and acted in shows like Girls and Billions. He's done a podcast, and mostly he tours very, very successfully. He tours still. Time magazine just ran a profile of him with the headline, why isn't Mike Birbiglia more famous? The answer is in 2025, is he doesn't need to be. He's super smart and articulate about the business. So I invited him on the town to discuss it all. Today it's Mike Birviglia and the new path to stand up fame and fortune from the ringer and Puck. I'm Matt Bellany and this is the Town. Okay. We are here with Mike Birbiglia, who is stand up comic, actor, writer, director, multi hyphenate. Got a new Netflix special. Welcome, Mike.
- [03:41]
E
Thanks so much for Ad Baby. This is so cool.
- [03:43]
Craig Horlbeck
Okay, so I wanted to have you on because I am kind of endlessly fascinated by the business of the modern standup comedy guy. And you are very successful. It's changed a lot, I feel, over the past decade or so. What is the key to being successful now as a standup? I mean, take away the funny part.
- [04:09]
E
Sure.
- [04:09]
Craig Horlbeck
Assume there are hundreds and hundreds of very, very funny people out there trying to get to the A level of touring standup like you are at now. What is the key?
- [04:22]
E
I definitely think since I entered professional standup, I would say maybe around 2,000 or so, I moved to New York City from College. I was 22. And I would say there has been a seismic shift in live touring comedy since that point.
- [04:41]
Craig Horlbeck
For the better.
- [04:42]
E
Oh, my gosh. I mean. Yeah. Beyond. It's actually kind of unbelievable because if you think about the 70s, the 80s, the 90s of standup comedy, there was like Dice Clay, there was Steve Martin, there were a handful of people who could play theaters.
- [05:04]
Craig Horlbeck
Yeah. The rock stars of comedy.
- [05:06]
E
Yeah. And at a certain point in the 2000s, and I remember I was actually on the ground floor of when this happened. I went from 2000 to 2006 playing comedy clubs all across the country to probably around 2006 or 7. I remember there was the first Comedy Central live tour and it was. And these would all be theater acts on their own, but they put in a super Bill Lewis Black, Dave Attell and Mitch Hedberg. And I was the opening act on a handful of those. I did Philadelphia and New York and a bunch of other places, and it sold like crazy. And so the three of them together would just sell out night over night overnight in probably like, you know, typically like 2,000 seat theaters. And then it was so popular that I think all three of those guys went off and did solo theater tours on their own. So around that time I started doing theaters. And then I've been doing theaters ever since.
- [06:13]
Craig Horlbeck
But what changed? Cause that was pre social media and pre YouTube and pre podcast. Like, I would have thought that the rise of social and the ways to connect and develop fans online would have been the driver of this shift in the comedy business that has turned these even mid level standups into really viable touring acts. But you're saying it happened before that?
- [06:42]
E
I think it happened in the early mid-2000s and, you know, just to round the edges on this. So I was saying, like you had Dice Clay and Steve Martin and a handful of other people playing theaters in that era. Now I would say there's probably 30, 40American comedians doing theaters. I don't even know, but it's a ton.
- [07:02]
Craig Horlbeck
Yeah.
- [07:02]
E
And when I filmed the Good Life at the Beacon theater, I did six shows at the Beacon Theaters. There's almost 3,000 seat venue, so it's about 18,000 tickets, which is a huge amount of people. A week later, or not even a week later, a day later, Nikki Glaser did six Beacons herself.
- [07:22]
Craig Horlbeck
Yeah.
- [07:22]
E
But what's fascinating is one night Nikki asked me to do a guest set on her show. I did the set on the show. Completely different audience. That's how big live touring comedy has gotten. I'm performing one week at the Beacon for 20,000 people. She's performing a week later. 20,000 people. Not even the same people, Not a single person. Overlap came up to me and said, hey, I saw both.
- [07:45]
Craig Horlbeck
Yeah. And now you see comics like Nate Borgazzi. He's doing like a matinee and then an evening show and he's selling out both in arenas.
- [07:57]
E
Absolutely.
- [07:58]
Craig Horlbeck
Yeah. But I just want to. I want to get to the core of that business, though, because I do think that it has been supercharged by the connections that comics have developed through social media.
- [08:10]
E
It is.
- [08:11]
Craig Horlbeck
And to be a successful comic nowadays, do you have to be very online? Do you have to have a podcast?
- [08:17]
E
Look, I found when I. I have a podcast called Working it out, and it was a pandemic, baby. It was one of these things. We couldn't perform live. And so I was like, well, if I'm gonna do a podcast, what would be the thing that sets it apart? And I was like, oh, well, what if I worked out. It's called Working It Out. What if I worked out material with other comedians in real time so people would not only hear the stories and hear the discussion, but they'd hear, like, how bits are created, which is something I would never have dreamed of doing. But because we couldn't perform, I was like, let me give it a shot. It doubled or tripled the amount of people who are coming out to my shows.
- [08:54]
Craig Horlbeck
Hmm. There it is right there.
- [08:55]
E
Before the Pandemic. So you take, like, one of the nicest theaters in the country is the Chicago theater. It's like, I want to say 3,500 seats. And before the Pandemic, I did one. Chicago theater, sold out. And after the Pandemic, I did three.
- [09:10]
Craig Horlbeck
Wow. Interesting. It's funny because it used to be that the marker of a successful standup was a TV deal. Sitcom.
- [09:18]
E
Yeah. And it's interesting because I was seeking that when I started out in comedy and I wanted a sitcom. It was like Seinfeld and Ray Romano and all that.
- [09:27]
Craig Horlbeck
Didn't you get one?
- [09:28]
E
Yeah, yeah. I got a sitcom pilot with CBS in 2008, and Bob Bodenkirk was my brother, and Nick Kroll was my cousin. It was, like, an unbelievable cast, and it kind of was death by a thousand cuts. It was like. It started out being autobiographical, like my standup is, and then network note after network note, making it more likable, more this, more that makes things, you know, testing it, all this stuff. And by the time we made it and edited it, I was like, this is not me. I was just, like, secretly hoping. You can't outwardly hope something like this when so many people work on something, but I was secretly hoping it didn't get picked up, and it didn't. I think it's the best thing that's ever happened to my entire career.
- [10:13]
Craig Horlbeck
It's so funny. I just interviewed Mulaney and was talking about his failed sitcom, and he was saying the exact same thing, that it just. It's so hard to keep the singular vision of what you actually want to do when there are just so many factors that are pulling against that.
- [10:31]
E
I think what happened in the last decade, and maybe arguably the last two decades, is that comedy audiences have gotten very hip to the artifice of entertainment. And so I just think the reason podcasts are so connective is that you're really not hiding much. You're like, well, this is a conversation I had for an hour or two hours or three hours. And it's like, well, how much could you be possibly bullshitting? I'm kind of listening to the whole thing.
- [11:03]
Craig Horlbeck
Right? Yeah. It is the way to get access to someone's comedic voice that you like. And you used to have to see that through the filter of a sitcom and now you don't.
- [11:13]
E
Absolutely. Yeah.
- [11:14]
Craig Horlbeck
So that leads to the questions, do you comedians need Hollywood anymore?
- [11:21]
E
No, I think no. I just. Just ask all the comedians who live in Texas and Nashville.
- [11:26]
Craig Horlbeck
Right?
- [11:26]
E
I mean, Nate Bargazzi is certainly not shedding any tears for not living in New York or Los Angeles.
- [11:32]
Craig Horlbeck
No, he's shitting all over Bob Iger in his interviews.
- [11:35]
E
Oh, is he really?
- [11:36]
Craig Horlbeck
I didn't even know that he went. He said that the head of Disney is like a bean counter and, like, doesn't care about creatives anymore. It was very bizarre. But I was like, someone who wanted an ABC sitcom would certainly not say that.
- [11:47]
E
It's just a completely different universe. I mean, so one way I think about comedy, stand up comedians, or for that matter, bands, is that Instagram has basically become almost what like a dating app is for people who are single, where it's like, oh, well, what kind of comedy do you like? Oh, you like this kind of comedy? Well, let me introduce you to, through the algorithm, 10 different comedians who are that type of comedy. Oh, you like these two the most? Well, we're gonna feed you that over and over again. And so what ends up happening is, you know, look, I do storytelling, I do a certain type of combination of jokes and stories in theater. And those people have found me, and for a long time they hadn't, which is great for me, and it's great for them.
- [12:35]
Craig Horlbeck
But do you feel now that it's just as important, or possibly even more important to have that kind of shoulder programming constantly coming out? Like, is doing good standup no longer enough?
- [12:50]
E
It's a really good question. And certainly there's a lot of big comedians who are huge who have said to me, like, hey, do I have to have a podcast? Do I have to cave in and have a podcast? And in a way, you kind of do in the sense that. Or I mean, look, you don't have to do anything, but. But I think it's akin to morning radio, morning television of the 80s and.
- [13:15]
Craig Horlbeck
90S or the spot on the Tonight show or something like that.
- [13:19]
E
Well, yeah, in the case of like, yeah, in the case of some of these huge shows like Theo Vaughn's show, like, yeah, that is as big as that. But I do think it is kind of like podcasts are where people go to find comedy at this point.
- [13:33]
Craig Horlbeck
What do you like, which podcast do you like for comedy?
- [13:36]
E
I listen to things that are a lot of like combination of entertainment. Like, I listen to, I listen to script notes with John August and Craig Mason. Like, I think it's a great breakdown of, of screenwriting. I listen to Los Culturistas Bo Yang. Yeah, Bo Yang is great. Matt Rogers is great. I listen to Pivot, which is, I would say news and enter news and entertainment.
- [14:00]
Craig Horlbeck
I don't think they call themselves comedy.
- [14:01]
E
But yeah, yeah, they're not comedians. I love Conan's podcast. I think, look, I actually think Conan's a great example of. And I've said this to him. I mean like I was an intern for Conan in 1997, so I've been a mega Conan fan forever and ever and ever. And Conan was hilarious on late night, he was hilarious on TBS and he's hilarious on HBO now. I would venture to say his funniest format is his podcast. I think it's the most untethered version of him. It's unhinged. It's what he's like off air.
- [14:38]
Craig Horlbeck
Yeah. And it doesn't have the artifice of the talk show format, which always felt like it reigned him in a little.
- [14:46]
E
No, absolutely. And even like Mulaney's talk show in some ways is a variation on TV meets podcast meets like old fashioned talk show hybrid where it's like it's kind of unhinged in some ways. That's one of my favorite ways to see Jon is being just his goofy self.
- [15:06]
Craig Horlbeck
So do you think that the format of the one hour special still holds the same power that it did even a decade ago, or is that changing?
- [15:19]
E
I think it does. I think it does. I think also it will like I'm one of these firm believers in. And this is why I made directed two movies and why I'm working on directing my next movie. I'm writing the next script right now. And I believe as the 90 minute to two hour story, we meet the characters, we spend time with the characters, we go on A journey with them and land somewhere, all in the span of 90 minutes to two hours. I don't think that's going anywhere. I just don't. It's as old as Shakespeare. It's as old as probably the Greeks. It's like, I just do not think it's going anywhere. And I think movies will return. I think an interesting example of that was this year at the Oscars where you go like, oh, Shawn Baker made this indie film and it's like really wide. And Jesse Eisenberg made this great movie and it's really wide. I think people crave that type of storytelling and I think stand up comedy specials are the same way. I think stand up comedy specials, I think are akin to what podcasts are to stand up comedy specials. I think streaming television is to movies. Does that analogy hold?
- [16:36]
Craig Horlbeck
I think so, yeah. But the through line is that the niche has become the mainstream. I mean, neither of those movies you mentioned, Jesse Eisenberg's movie A Real Pain or a Nora, reached a mass, mass audience like you might have seen a generation ago. But both hit their target audience pretty well. And the same is happening in stand up with podcasts. You know, I'll go to a big city, I'll go to New York and I'll see a marquee for a live version of a comedy podcast and I will have never heard of the person, but they sold out a giant theater in New York City. I feel like the Internet has enabled these kinds of fandoms to pop up where you don't have to be Steve Martin, who is a massive national force to sell out a giant theater. You have to find your audience. And podcasts are doing that. Yeah.
- [17:30]
E
And I think, like I heard this commented on recently, I think it might have been Zinnemann who said this in the Times where he was talking about the studio Seth and Evans show, which I know you were on and you were great. He said, I don't want to quote Zinnamon out of and get him wrong. But the gist of it was that show is so deeply irreverent to the gatekeepers of Hollywood because it can. Because they don't need Hollywood. Like they literally don't need Hollywood. If that doesn't. If that show isn't on Apple, they could kind of make a version of it on their own and release it on their own.
- [18:08]
Craig Horlbeck
Interesting. Probably not spend as much as they did on that show.
- [18:13]
E
It wouldn't be a series of oners.
- [18:14]
Craig Horlbeck
Yeah, exactly. They spend a lot of money on that show. But I get what you're saying. And it also. There's an ability to do that kind of show now because the audience for it is familiar enough with the inner workings of Hollywood, thanks to the Internet. I mean, a generation ago, nobody would have even known or related to some of the problems that they have on that show. But now you kind of know about Box Office, you kind of know about how movies are made. There's enough out there where it's served to you in your algorithm, if you're kind of interested in that stuff, and that enables a show like that to get made completely. And I think the same is true with standups. Like, do you think your algorithm does a good job of serving you the kind of comedy that you like?
- [19:01]
E
Yeah, I think so. I mean, and then also the kind that you hate, but you still click on. Yeah, because you're watching it and you're like, I cannot look away from the screen. And the next thing you know, it's like that comedian's being served to you over and over again.
- [19:17]
Craig Horlbeck
Right. Do you think that this new world of comedy has made the comedy community stronger? Like, do you feel that there's a stronger sense of community within the standup world, or is it just everybody's their own solo entrepreneur out there and you don't feel that same sense that you might have a generation ago?
- [19:40]
E
I think the community is pretty strong. I think there's a little bit of tribalism in the podcast space, where it's a group of people going on each other's podcasts over and over again and that kind of thing. But at the same time, like, with my podcast, we've done 170 episodes of working It Out. And for me, it's like, it gives me an excuse to invite people over to my studio and just do my favorite thing, which is talk about comedy. So it's like we've had all these people who. I see them every now and then, but, like, I wouldn't have an excuse to see them otherwise. So I think in that way, it is a little bit social and kind.
- [20:16]
Craig Horlbeck
Of fun, but you're considered a comics comic. I'm sure we talked to people that felt like they were on the outside. It may not feel so chummy.
- [20:25]
E
Maybe that's nice of you to say, but maybe.
- [20:31]
Matt Bellany
Today's episode is brought to you by Peacock, presenting the Day of the Jackal. For your Emmy consideration. Eddie Redmayne and Lashana lynch star in the original drama series Variety calls an exhilarating thriller. The series follows a lone assassin and an Intelligence officer in a cat and mouse chase across Europe. The Day of the Jackal is streaming now only on Peacock. This episode of the Town is brought to you by Hulu. Presenting Paradise. Paradise is Hulu's critically acclaimed addictive drama series starring Sterling K. Brown, Julianne Nicholson and James Marsden, filled with nail biting twists and turns. The Daily Beast calls Paradise your next TV obsession, and the New York Times says it's exhilarating in all the right ways. Paradise is for your Emmy consideration in all categories, including outstanding Drama Series. For more information, we visit fyc.hulu.com what.
- [21:22]
Craig Horlbeck
Are your thoughts on distribution? Like, is the Netflix deal still the pinnacle for a special? Like, I know they were throwing around money like candy a couple years ago that's pulled back a little bit, but is it still the place?
- [21:37]
E
Look, this is my fourth special in a row from Netflix, and the other two were on Netflix. So this is basically my second, sixth special in a row on Netflix. The other ones were licensed. I think they're somewhere else now. God knows who owns any of these things. But I had this thing happen where I had a Comedy Central Special in 2008 called what I Should have Said was Nothing. And Comedy Central didn't even make it. They were not interested in making my hour. My agent, Mike Berkowitz, was really smart. He figured out this backdoor way that we could produce it on our own and license it to Comedy Central. So it was just a license deal.
- [22:24]
Craig Horlbeck
Yeah.
- [22:25]
E
So about two years go by whenever Netflix. When did Netflix go streaming? 2010 or something?
- [22:31]
Unknown
2011.
- [22:32]
Craig Horlbeck
The first originals were like 2013.
- [22:35]
E
Okay. So whatever. It was just when they were streaming, what I should have said was nothing. This special that I had shot that they didn't even take at Comedy Central, they licensed it. They didn't even make it. All of a sudden it's on Netflix and everyone I know is coming up to me on the street and going, I love that special on Netflix. And I was like, what's Netflix? And then basically from that point on, I said to my agent, we need to get all of my specials on Netflix. This is crazy.
- [23:06]
Craig Horlbeck
Well, that's when the hierarchy was hbo, then Comedy Central, and then whatever.
- [23:10]
E
Yeah. And so then the next one, my girlfriend's boyfriend was on there. And then we. And then from then on, it's been like originals. But I have to say, like the whispers and murmurs among comics is it's either YouTube or Netflix. YouTube is also massive. I think YouTube is the. I think it's technically the biggest platform just in Terms of overall viewership.
- [23:33]
Craig Horlbeck
Oh, it is an overall time spent, but you know, just the monetization is different. You get paid up front at Netflix.
- [23:39]
E
Yeah, but it's like Shane Gillis. I think he has a YouTube special that has 40 million views. I mean, nothing in streaming. It's 40 million views. That's crazy.
- [23:52]
Craig Horlbeck
And Shane did an interesting thing with Netflix where he produced that show Tires.
- [23:57]
E
Yeah.
- [23:58]
Craig Horlbeck
And then sold it to them like I believe he owned it. Or they did a massive deal where he gave him some specials and then they took the show as well. And then it became popular on Netflix. They did a second season.
- [24:09]
E
I think the whispers and the murmurs among comedians is that it's Netflix or it's YouTube or you go to one of the other streamers and you have to reckon with the fact that about a third of the amount of people are going to see it.
- [24:21]
Craig Horlbeck
Right. And maybe they'll overpay you, but you got to take the hit if that's true.
- [24:25]
E
Yeah, that's right.
- [24:27]
Craig Horlbeck
But standup must be the primary revenue driver for comics in that upper tier still.
- [24:33]
E
I think so. Although I think podcasts are huge for some of those folks. I mean, I had this experience with doing a sitcom even as early as 2008 where I was like, well, I'm making more money doing stand up. I have more artistic control in stand up and in theater. I went back to New York after that show, didn't get picked up and I did Sleepwalk with Me off Broadway and then it became my first movie. But I was just finding, like even in 2008, I think that being a comedian was neck and neck in terms of the business model of being successful in Hollywood. I mean, that show didn't get picked up and I just didn't. I just didn't come back. I was just like, nah, I think I'm good with this.
- [25:21]
Craig Horlbeck
Yeah.
- [25:21]
E
Here's what I'll say that Netflix did that I think is really smart. I mean, in a very broad way. Like you said, they bought up all of the biggest name comedians specials. That was a super smart strategy. But the other thing they did was they have an openness to the types of comedy that are on their service. So like in the 2000s, I was doing these one person shows, Sleepwalk With Me, My girlfriend's boyfriend. HBO didn't take an interest in it because they had what they perceived as like the HBO style of comedy special.
- [25:57]
Craig Horlbeck
Right.
- [25:58]
E
And I think Netflix, for me it was like, oh, it's hbo, except it's more people and they're more open to, like, a diversity of artistic voices.
- [26:07]
Craig Horlbeck
Well, they're an everybody service. Hbo, especially back then, was a curated brand that was for a lot of people, but also not for a lot of people. And Netflix, from the beginning, has said, we are going to try to appeal to everyone and let the algorithm find them with the content that will appeal to them. And it's just a different mentality.
- [26:29]
E
Yeah. And even when they did Arrested Development, it's like it was a super smart example of they thought it was funny. Ted thought it was funny. He's like, not enough people have seen this. We're going to roll the dice on this and just. We don't care that it didn't have mass popularity and it got probably, I don't know, 10 times, 20 times as popular from being on Netflix.
- [26:51]
Craig Horlbeck
Well, and that was back when they weren't. They didn't have their own franchises. This was something that people actually knew and a small, devoted audience were going to be super fired up to go to Netflix to see the reboot. Ted's just super into comedy also. I mean, that's always been his advantage.
- [27:07]
E
Loves comedy.
- [27:08]
Craig Horlbeck
Comics love him.
- [27:09]
E
He had back, I think last year, he had all of us comics on Netflix, like, at his house.
- [27:15]
Craig Horlbeck
Oh, yeah, I saw the photos. I mean, it was fun.
- [27:17]
E
Fantastic. So, yeah, he's very, very comic. Friend.
- [27:20]
Craig Horlbeck
And you win a lot of street cred with the comics when you stand up for Chappelle, even though the special is somewhat objectionable. Many would say very objectionable. But every comic likes to see that the network will stand behind even the more extreme stuff because they were like, oh, okay, well, I. I know I'm good there.
- [27:37]
E
Yeah. He's definitely advocated for all types of comedy. Is. I feel like what Ted has done.
- [27:43]
Craig Horlbeck
Are they still paying top dollar, though? Are you. I mean, you don't have to give me numbers, but, like, they're still treating you well because I've heard some pullbacks.
- [27:50]
E
I think there have been. I don't look at other people's papers that much, but the. I mean, it's f. I mean, it's fine. I've ne. I've never, honestly, I've never made a ton of money from comedy specials. A lot of it is just, like, marketing getting well. Yeah. And it's getting like. Look, I do a really specific thing. Like, I consider myself the luckiest person in the world to have found Netflix. I shouldn't even say this on record because it'll make my negotiation for the next.
- [28:17]
Craig Horlbeck
I know your age is about to Cringe.
- [28:19]
E
Exactly. But it's like Netflix is the best thing that ever happened to me because, look, it's like I turn it off.
- [28:24]
Craig Horlbeck
Mike Berkowitz, Turn this off.
- [28:26]
E
I make shows that are combination of Broadway shows, theater storytelling and stand up comedy. Like, nobody before Netflix, nobody was like, we gotta get that on Comedy Central. Like, and to their credit, they, they've engaged on it, I think the same way that they engage in arrest and development. And it's like 10, I would say my specials are 10 times more popular than they ever were anywhere else.
- [28:49]
Craig Horlbeck
Craig, do you have anything?
- [28:50]
Unknown
Yeah, I do. I actually, I had one follow up question for you, Mike. You mentioned that, you know, you're optimistic that comedy movies will come back. I certainly want them to, but it feels like there is, there's an inherent dissonance there where, as you guys were saying, comedians don't need Hollywood anymore. They've become their own studio in a sense. They, they do their own marketing with social media, podcasting. They have their own shoulder programming. So I feel like that is directly. That has directly affected the slowdown in successful comedy movies. And is that a problem that you think is just an evolution of the industry? And now the place to go to laugh is not in a movie theater, because as you said, if you're a young comedian, like, you are focused on having a successful podcast, successful on social stand up and touring, the goal is no longer to make a comedy movie or to do a sitcom. You have less control. So I guess I'm just curious, like, how could comedy movies come back if this is the state of things?
- [29:43]
E
I think that it's just gonna take people increasingly having the passion to make things they love for less money. And I think it's gonna. Honestly, I do think it's gonna be a next generation of filmmakers who come up with essentially no money, but who have a passion for making things that are like that. But I agree with you about movie theaters. Like, I think I worry about the movie theaters thing. I think that I think it would be smart if someone like, when Sleepwalk With Me and Don't Think Twice came out, me and Ira Glass, who produced both of those movies, we would go and do Q and as, like at the IFC center in New York. We wouldn't do three Q and as we do 30 Q and A's, we would do them around the clock. Opening weekend, I got a hotel next to the IFC center, and we just did them over and over and over again. I think that that kind of elbow grease in some ways is what's needed. And I think, I think honestly, exhibitors like Alamo Drafthouse, which I think has done a really good job of innovating the modern movie theater and having food and having like a sense of humor about themselves, they have funny ads that they make at the beginning. They have like retro clips they show before the show. I feel like I want to see that take over.
- [30:59]
Unknown
Yeah, you just worry, though, that, that I don't know if a hangover style event could come out of that. It becomes more of like comedy movies would become more of like another niche corner of the total comedy ecosystem where you have your niche indie comedy that you kind of self produced and self financed along with your podcast and other things like, things like that, because the studios are not getting involved in that. So you have to do it yourself. But that limits its ceiling.
- [31:23]
E
Here's where it intersects, I think, I think with seeing streaming budgets start to get, you know, punch above 10, 20 million per episode. I think filmmakers like me, like, I've had a lot of meetings recently where people are like, yeah, we'll make your movie for $5 million. Like, it's like, it's kind of a sure bet in a certain sense because television is so expensive to even make now. So I do think that there's an intersection of those two ideas where it becomes so expensive to make streaming that movies come back. Because like I said, I think the 90 minute to two hour story, I don't think it's going. I just don't think it's going away.
- [32:04]
Craig Horlbeck
Well, congratulations. You've made a nice little niche there and you seem to be doing really well. So thanks for coming on the show.
- [32:10]
E
I appreciate it.
- [32:13]
Craig Horlbeck
All right, we are back with the call sheet. Craig, the Cannes Film Festival is over. Sadly, we were not there. We got to go to Cannes. You would love it.
- [32:21]
Unknown
I would love to go. Although the movies seem very depressing, maybe that's just this year they are.
- [32:26]
Craig Horlbeck
And you have to watch them all in a tuxedo, which makes it even more uncomfortable.
- [32:30]
Unknown
You got to stand and clap for eight minutes after every movie you do.
- [32:34]
Craig Horlbeck
Although the length of those are under some dispute. I'm not going to vouch for any of the lengths that are reported. Maybe we'll go next year. Honestly, I love going to Cannes. The movies are often not great, but the fanfare and the parties and the yacht stuff is all very fun.
- [32:49]
Unknown
I'm interested in yacht stuff. That sounds good to me.
- [32:51]
Craig Horlbeck
Yeah, yacht stuff is actually very fun. So the winners, our guy, Tom Quinn from Neon, won his sixth consecutive Palm d' Or. They had the Jafar Panahi movie. I'm butchering all these names. Apologies. It was just an accident. Which was the Palme d' or winner, Neon has US distribution for that movie. Unbelievable. Six movies in a row. Six Palme d' or winners in a row for Neon. Pretty unprecedented. That one distributor, because all the distributors that are there, a 24 MUBI, you know, Sony Classics, they all want to have that Palme d' or because it's a fantastic marketing vehicle for the movie. And we saw it this past year with Anora winning Best Picture. Right.
- [33:37]
Unknown
And do you think now that they're six years into winning this award that it increases the odds of a best Picture nomination just because of the past success of their prior winners?
- [33:47]
Craig Horlbeck
I think can is ascendant on the Oscar campaign trail because of a couple reasons. First of all, yes, they've had success in the past few years. Things like Triangle of Sadness, getting a Best Picture nom Parasite, winning five, six years ago, Fall getting a nomination an Fall. But also because of the increasing internationalization of the Academy, the can winners mean more because it's a much bigger deal outside of the US So I think that Neon is smart to focus in. And they picked up US rights to a bunch of these movies, like at the festival. They're basically sitting there at the roulette table putting their chips down on a bunch of numbers, hoping that one of them will hit. And the more chips you put down, the more likely you are to win. And they got. They not. They didn't just win the Palme d' or. Neon got the best actor prize, best director, the jury prize, Grand Prix, which is the second place one. And it's almost like a running of the table there. And I actually, my prediction is I think this Grand Prix winner, Sentimental Value, which is a film by Joaquin. I'm going to butcher the name Joaquin Trier or Joachim Trier. I think that actually is going to be an Oscar contender as well, perhaps even more so than than the Palm winner. It's just from all the reviews and everything, it seems like a more accessible movie. And most people thought it would be the Palm winner. So I think Neon will have a couple strong Oscar contenders from this year's Cannes.
- [35:16]
Unknown
So Sentimental Value is your pick to kind of emerge from this.
- [35:19]
Craig Horlbeck
I'm not going to pick. I'm not going to pick because, listen, I have not seen the movie and it's so early. But I'm just saying, I think that given the buzz out of Cannes that they will have a good Oscar trajectory for that movie in addition to the movie that actually won the Palme d' Or.
- [35:37]
E
Okay.
- [35:38]
Craig Horlbeck
So we'll see. All right. That's the show for today. I want to thank my guest, Mike Birbiglia, producer Craig Horlbeck. Art Jesse Lopez, and I want to thank you. We will see you one more time this week.