The Townies: Hollywood’s Best and Worst of 2025

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Town with Matthew Belloni

Episode: The Townies: Hollywood’s Best and Worst of 2025
Date: December 22, 2025
Host: Matthew Belloni (Puck)
Guests: Lucas Shaw (Bloomberg), Craig Horlbeck (The Ringer)

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Episode Overview

In this annual “Townies” episode, Matthew Belloni and Lucas Shaw, joined by producer Craig Horlbeck, hand out their irreverent awards for Hollywood’s most remarkable, perplexing, and infamous moments of 2025. They dive into exclusive industry reporting, backroom drama, business moves (and misfires), cultural phenomena, and who really won or lost in a turbulent year. The conversation is candid, insider-y, and often playful, as they debate, dissect, and reminisce about what defined Hollywood in 2025.

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Key Topics & Discussion Points

1. Setting the Stage: 2025’s Tumultuous Hollywood ([00:00–03:44])

• Massive Industry Shifts: Studio buyouts (Warner Bros., attempts at Paramount), Netflix’s aggressive expansion, Amazon landing James Bond, and Apple’s surprising theatrical hit with “F.1.”
• Culture Shift: “A cloud of funk” — layoffs, slowing production, AI as an existential threat, continued fallout from high-profile scandals, and a sense of unease pervading the industry.
• AI & 'Slop': OpenAI’s rapid advances and controversy; Merriam Webster’s ‘word of the year’ ("slop") reflects fears about low-quality, mass-produced entertainment, with Disney striking a landmark deal with OpenAI.
• Pop Culture/Politics: Diddy jailed, directors going to “director jail,” Donald Trump’s outsized (and often damaging) influence on Disney/Paramount.

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2. The 2025 Townies Awards Ceremony ([03:44–47:55])

Format:

• Craig Horlbeck serves as the MC, calling out category after category as Matt and Lucas debate nominees, discuss context, and ultimately declare winners.

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Biggest Flex ([04:04–08:07])

• Winner: Mike DeLuca & Pam Abdy (Warner Bros.)
  • Matt: “They were literally being escorted out of the building by the media in March…then they fire off five movies in a row that are all big hits.”
  • Lucas: “Disney will end up with the most grosses…but I still feel like this was sort of Warner Brothers’ year.”
• Other Nominees: Taylor Swift (buying her albums back), Lily Allen (career revival with new album).

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Most Destructive Public Backlash ([08:08–11:53])

• Winner: Disney's "Snow White" ([08:14])
  • Matt: “Seemed to be hated by everyone…205 million worldwide. Big money loser for Disney. Marc Webb, maybe director jail, maybe not. I don’t blame him for this.”
  • Lucas: “It was kind of doomed before it came out. And that's always—”
• Runner-Up: OpenAI’s Sora launch / Copyright controversy ([09:17])
  • Lucas: “Just, like, completely blew up in their face. Then they had to retrench…do this deal with Disney…”
• Honorable Mention: Trump’s tweet about Rob Reiner ([10:52])
  • Matt: “A late winner for this one…so awful and sad, but man.”

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Most Baffling Success ([11:53–16:56])

• Lucas’ Winner: David Zaslav (Warner Bros. Discovery CEO)
  • Lucas: “This is someone who, if you were to…[do] a performance review…probably the most hated executive in Hollywood…then he ends up pulling this deal off where the stock price shoots up…he can go out a conquering hero.” ([12:13])
  • Matt: “It’s baffling because this guy is not a builder…in fact, he did so much that hurt the company that it got bidders in place to say, oh, we can go after this.”
• Matt’s Winner: "Dancing With the Stars" Season 34 ([15:27])
  • Matt: “The finale generated 10 million viewers…they finally leaned into casting social media stars…putting clips on TikTok…and it worked.”

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Most Annoying Media Narrative ([16:59–21:45])

• Winners:
  • “Mini (micro) dramas as the next big thing” ([17:06])
    • Lucas: “I want to ask everyone who sends me that, do you watch them?…We have just decided without a lot of evidence that this is the next huge trend.”
  • “‘$800M is the new billion’ for box office hits” ([21:10])
    • Matt: “You heard that all the time when these movies like ‘Jurassic World’ and ‘Minecraft’…did not get to a billion. And that's a problem…can't just say…‘billion is the new 800’—arguably it should be ‘a billion is the new 800.’”
  • Other narratives: “Studios don’t make movies to make money,” “original movies are back,” endless talk of carriage fights, and revolving rumors about execs losing jobs.

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Least Believable Announcement ([21:48–23:30])

• Winner: Trump’s Tariff Plans
  • Lucas: “He spends some time talking to Stephen Paul and Jon Voight and he talks about tariffs and then there is zero follow-up. He clearly knows nothing about what he's doing.” ([21:51])
• Other nominees: “Colbert was fired for his budget” (Matt: “I actually kind of believe that… but the widespread belief…is that politics was the only reason.”), Jeremy Zimmer’s “retirement” at UTA.

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Sneaky Success ([23:31–26:46])

• Winners:
  • “Wizard of Oz” at the Sphere, Las Vegas ([23:35])
    • Matt: “$2 million a day at the Sphere…that is insane and totally a surprise to me…would not have thought that people would pay 150, $200…”
    • Lucas: “…Some of the Wall Street researchers have been publishing updates and I think the numbers are still good. They've come down a little, but they're still quite strong.” ([24:44])
  • “Ney Zha 2” (Chinese film) — Possible highest grossing movie globally this year ([25:04])
    • Matt: “First time that has ever happened that a non-US movie has become the highest grossing in a year. That's a big deal.”
  • Lucas adds: “Demon Slayer” (anime), and “The Summer I Turned Pretty” (Amazon TV) as other underappreciated hits.

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Best Press Tour (Press Tour de Force) ([28:01–31:38])

• Winner: Timothée Chalamet
  • Lucas: “He sort of mastered the press tour…goes on the different podcasts and has clearly over prepared and knows all the things to say.”
  • Matt: “Going on SNL as Bob Dylan, that's not too much?”
  • Notable mention: Sydney Sweeney ("kept her in the culture… permanently"), Pam Anderson/Liam Neeson’s faux-couple act for "Naked Gun."

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Sneaky Bomb / Bad Deal ([31:40–36:25])

• Winners (tie):
  • K-Pop Demon Hunters slate deal (Sony/Netflix):
    • Matt: “They produced a slate…one turned out huge…And there is no ‘schmuck insurance’ in this deal…Hundreds of millions of dollars [Netflix made].”
    • Lucas: “It’s one of those deals that looks worse in retrospect…They made enough money. I don’t feel bad.”
  • “Electric State” (Netflix movie):
    • Lucas: “It just came and went like that…It was the most expensive significant movie that they released this year.”
    • Matt: “And it had the biggest star on Netflix—Millie Bobby Brown…they promoted the shit out of it…then it just came and people were like…’”

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Franchises That Died (In Memoriam Award) ([36:25–39:38])

• Winners: “M3GAN 2.0” and “Tron: Aries”
  • Matt: “Tron: 200 million budget, 140 million worldwide…reviled. But what makes M3GAN 2.0 a bigger bomb? Everybody asked for a sequel…and it still flopped.”
  • Lucas: “They were trying to build a universe out of it, which they had to walk back…That’s a big deal to…completely immolate a franchise via choices.”
• Additional mentions: “Mission Impossible” might be winding down, “Smurfs” bombed.

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Larry David Spite Store of the Year ([39:42–43:09])

• Winners: Taylor Sheridan (moving from Paramount to Universal, three years ahead of contract) & Chris McCarthy
  • Lucas: “Taylor Sheridan says [to Paramount], fuck you. I’m going three years before I’m announcing, three years before my contract is up that I’m out.”
• Runner up: Cindy Holland at Paramount targeting ex-Netflix talent.
• Matt: “Her spite store is to bring the talent over to Paramount…even though the Duffer Brothers went there because they're getting movies in theaters.”

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Deal of the Year ([43:09–47:29])

• Winner: Netflix buying Warner Brothers
  • Matt: “In terms of impact…earth-shaking inability to talk about anything else…It fundamentally changes Netflix…puts Warner Brothers under new ownership. It impacts theaters, the theater business…It's why I've written about almost nothing else.”
  • Lucas: “Unquestionably the biggest deal of the year.”
• Other notable deals: Netflix K-Pop Demon Hunters (for value created), Amazon acquiring James Bond from Broccoli family, Taylor Sheridan’s Universal move, Disney/OpenAI deal, Paramount’s $8B UFC deal.

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Notable Quotes

• Matt Belloni [04:06]: “They were literally being escorted out of the building…Then they fire off five movies in a row that are all big hits.”
• Lucas Shaw [12:13]: “This is someone who…became probably the most hated executive in Hollywood…then pulls this deal off where the stock price shoots up…”
• Matt Belloni [08:14]: “The Rachel Zegler ‘Snow White’ that was…seemed to be hated by everyone.”
• Lucas Shaw [17:13]: “Mini dramas are one of those things where, like, someone does a story…and every other news outlet has to do a story.”
• Matt Belloni [21:10]: “800 is the new billion…these movies would have grossed a billion dollars in the pre-COVID times.”
• Lucas Shaw [21:51]: “He [Trump] spends some time talking…about tariffs and then there is zero follow up. He clearly knows nothing about what he’s doing.”
• Matt Belloni [23:45]: “$2 million a day at the Sphere…that is insane and totally a surprise to me…”
• Lucas Shaw [28:43]: “Chalamet…sort of mastered the press tour…he goes on different podcasts and has clearly over prepared and knows all the things to say.”
• Matt Belloni [31:47]: “It’s the K Pop Demon Hunters deal Sony did…there is no schmuck insurance in this deal…that pays Sony hundreds of millions…”
• Lucas Shaw [36:49]: “They were trying to build a universe out of [M3GAN]…that they had to walk back…That’s a big deal to…completely immolate a franchise via choices.”
• Matt Belloni [43:42]: “It fundamentally changes Netflix, which is the biggest company in the industry right now. It puts Warner Brothers…under new ownership. It impacts the theaters, the theater business…”

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Key Timestamps for Segments

• Industry recap, state of Hollywood: [00:00–03:45]
• Biggest Flex: [04:04–08:07]
• Most Destructive Public Backlash: [08:08–11:53]
• Most Baffling Success: [11:53–16:56]
• Most Annoying Media Narrative: [16:59–21:45]
• Least Believable Announcement: [21:48–23:30]
• Sneaky Success: [23:31–26:46]
• Best Press Tour: [28:01–31:38]
• Sneaky Bomb/Bad Deal: [31:40–36:25]
• Franchises That Died: [36:25–39:38]
• Spite Store of the Year: [39:42–43:09]
• Deal of the Year: [43:09–47:29]
• Teaser for Part Two: [47:29–47:55]

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Memorable Moments

• Belloni and Shaw’s affectionate ribbing about their own reporting and media colleagues, notably around the “mini drama” trend and endless exec firing rumors.
• Detailed, industry-insider breakdowns: e.g., Sony’s unforeseen misfortune in the Netflix “K-Pop Demon Hunters” deal ([31:47]).
• The playful “flop off” between “Tron” and “M3GAN 2.0” for the biggest franchise disaster.
• Chalamet’s press brilliance/delusion dissected in real time (“There’s just no way that a theater kid from New York City knows that much about WWE wrestling.” [29:36])
• Blunt, often biting, commentary on business (“Nobody’s buying Warner Discovery because ‘Sinners’ did well in theaters…they’re buying it because of the library…” [13:49])

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Conclusion

For anyone wanting an unvarnished, deeply knowledgeable—and very current—insider’s read on Hollywood’s shifting sands in 2025, this Townies episode delivers. The debates and recaps provide context you won’t find in mainstream trade coverage, with Belloni and Shaw’s running commentary exposing both the genius and absurdity of the business. Expect frank opinions, context that connects the dots, and a countdown of both the industry’s unheralded winners and most egregious mishaps.
Teaser: Part two promises a showdown over “Biggest embarrassment for a once dominant filmmaker.”

Transcript

[A]

If you care about Hollywood, and I assume you do, if you're listening to the Town, you should really be getting the whole story about Hollywood. That's what you get with Puck. I'm a founding partner Puck and I write a newsletter called what I'm Hearing. It's got exclusive news for insiders and analysis of the biggest stories. Puck has a bunch of great journalists. We just hired Kim Masters, who also covers Hollywood from the inside, plus media, sports, fashion, politics and finance. It's a must have for plugged in people. Fans of the Town get a discount on the description page of this episode or at Puck News thetown. Go further into Hollywood by becoming a Puck member today. This episode of the Town is presented by HBO Max, presenting the HBO original series Task for your consideration. In the working class suburbs of Philadelphia, an FBI agent played by Mark Ruffalo heads a task force to put an end to a string of violent robberies led by an unsuspected family man played by Tom Pelfrey. Don't miss the series the Atlantic is calling riveting and revelatory, now streaming on HBO Max. Don't miss the movie Event of a Lifetime. Visionary director James Cameron presents the greatest chapter in the biggest saga of all time. Fire and Ash, now playing in theaters. A new threat will rise in the character of Varong, who leads the ruthless Ash people, and a stunning new discovery will threaten to change the world of Avatar forever. Fire and Ash, now playing in theaters, iMacs and 3D screens everywhere. Get tickets now. It is Monday, December 22nd. It's the townies. What a year in Hollywood. Two studios were sold. One Paramount is still trying to acquire, the other, Warner Brothers, and Netflix did something almost nobody thought it would do. It bought its way to growth. Or so it hopes. We'll see how the Warner sale turns out. All the major streaming services became profitable except one. Sorry, Peacock. Amazon finally bought the James Bond franchise that it thought it was buying three years ago, and Apple finally had hit movie in theaters thanks to F.1. Diddy went to jail and a couple filmmakers we won't name went to director jail. Donald Trump wreaked havoc on both Disney and Paramount, and most of all, a cloud of funk seemed to have descended over the entertainment industry and parked there. Starting with the fires in January and the exodus of productions and all the layoffs associated with the Paramount sale and the general slowdown in production, the fear of what's to come as AI really established itself as the defining challenge for the professionally made movies and TV industry. Merriam Webster declared The word of the year is slop, which thanks in part to Disney's landmark deal with OpenAI, could be a sign of things to come in Hollywood. But it wasn't all bad news. And as is tradition, Lucas Shaw from Bloomberg is here. We both put our tuxes on, and we're going to stage our very own awards show, the Townies. Given for outstanding performances in categories that only we choose and only we decide have real meaning and influence. Kind of like the Golden Globes, but classier. Though the Townies are also available for purchase, it all leads up to the coveted who won the year honors for both talent and executives. So pop the champagne. It's the Townies. The best and worst. And what the hell in the year in Hollywood. In the ringer and puck. I'm Matt Bellany, and this is the town. All right, thank you, Craig, for playing our awards. Music playing for this. Lucas and I are here live in the Spotify headquarters. The ringer headquarters, downtown la. I took a waymo not knowing that waymos don't go on the freeways yet. Lovely view of the side streets on the way from the west side to downtown la. All right, so here's how this is going to work. If you haven't listened before, Craig is going to go through the categories, and Lucas and I are going to offer our choices, and then we will decide amongst us. Or will Craig decide what the winner is in each category?

[B]

I don't know why we're making this competitive. It's kind of like a team sport.

[A]

No, it's got to be competitive. There's always a winner and a loser.

[C]

If you guys have a consensus, then that's the winner.

[A]

Okay. But in any dispute, Craig will decide.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

So let's start. Craig, go with the first category.

[C]

Okay. The first category of the 2025 Townies Biggest Flex.

[A]

This one's easy, right?

[B]

Mine are totally different from yours, I would guess because both of mine are music.

[A]

Oh, okay. Mine is movies. It's gotta be Mike DeLuca and Pam Abdy at Warner Brothers. They were literally being escorted out of the building by the media in March. We knew from reporting that David Zaslav, their boss, had talked to people about taking over their job running the film studio at Warner's. Then they fire off five movies in a row that are all big hits. And several of them were not supposed to be hits. Sinners, Weapons, Minecraft Movie. Although they did not have much.

[B]

Well, weapon, I think. No, I mean, weapons was made by a director whose previous movie had done well and been well.

[A]

Regarded, but not $300 million worldwide. Well, regarded like that was. I mean, horror, whatever.

[B]

But I had them for a different category. It was very impressive to go from your boss auditioning other people for your job, or at least meeting with other people about your job, to then go on the heater of all heaters, be this kind of the studio of the year. Disney will end up with the most grosses because of Zootopian Avatar at the end. But I still feel like this was sort of Warner Brothers year between.

[A]

Oh, you do?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Superman kind of worked. The horror stuff worked.

[B]

Conjuring between Sinners, Minecraft horror and the fact that one battle after another seems like a sure thing to win Best Picture, even if it was financially not as successful as people want you to believe. Like that's still a win for them.

[A]

Sure. So they do win Best Picture. And you're a big studio, you are flexing. So that is the definition of the.

[B]

I would actually say Superman is sort of like the weakest of that. But that's also the one that is not theirs. Right. That comes from dc.

[A]

And honestly, Superman did what it needed to do. They can credibly release more movies in this universe and that's all that matters. All right, so who do you have?

[B]

I have a tie. Both from pop stars. One was Taylor Swift buying her albums back.

[A]

Okay, I had that in another category, but that's a flex.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And the other, even though it sort of renders all of her previous decades worth of RE recordings moot.

[B]

Yes. But it was. She finally won. And the other was the Lily Allen album, which is, I don't know if you have listened to it or you're aware of this story at all.

[A]

You're aware of Lily Allen. Come on, I'm not that lazy.

[B]

But putting out an entire album, that's just a huge middle finger to you, to David Harbour, to your ex husband, which by the way, then completely revives your career. Because that's the thing about Lily Allen is. Lily Allen was like a huge deal 10 to 15 years ago. She then kind of disappeared. Now maybe to be a mom, but also just musically didn't do much that mattered. And now this is, I would say, the biggest and most relevant she's ever been. She's performing snl, she's going to sell out her tour next year.

[A]

So. All right, I'll take it. I mean, you could argue that Scooter Braun responded to the Taylor News by dating someone, Sydney Sweeney. So that's kind of a flex.

[B]

You think he responded to the Taylor News. As if he just says this, I get to pick this. Sydney Sweeney has no agency.

[A]

I'm assuming he went into overdrive working it to try to woo her because he was in a bad place, that Taylor had finally got her master's back.

[B]

I think he's been. I think he's been single for a while.

[A]

And I'm sure this was on his. His mood board of things that he wants to accomplish in his life. So good for them. I had a couple runners up. I had lorne for the SNL50 hoopla. That's a huge.

[B]

Was that still this year?

[A]

That was this year. They sort of owned the culture in February for a little while. I had David Geffen buying Warner Discovery stock. I had David Geffen low right before the sale.

[B]

I had David Geffen as my third option.

[A]

Hard to say that possible security fraud might be a flex. That is not. I'm not saying that he did that illegally. I'm just saying. Saying that it's a little suspicious. And then I had, you know, this. This year in January was when Greta Gerwig got the thousand IMAX screens for the Narnia movie. So big Flex. Getting Netflix to give you a thousand IMAX screens, pretty big Flex.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

All right, let's move on. Should we crown a winner? It's gotta be Mike and Pam. Come on.

[C]

Despite the compelling case for Scooter Braun, it is probably Mike and Pam.

[A]

Yeah. All right, let's move on. Craig, number two.

[C]

Next category is the most destructive public backlash.

[A]

This one for me is easy. It's gotta be Snow White. That movie came out this year. Finally. The Rachel Zegler Snow White that was. Seemed to be hated by everyone. Like the advocates for little people didn't like it. And the people who would prefer the Disney movies be all white didn't like it. 205 million worldwide. Big money loser for Disney. Marc Webb, maybe director jail, maybe not. I don't blame him for this.

[B]

I don't think he.

[A]

Yeah, this is not his fault. This one went off the rails for many, many reasons. But, yeah, the whole hoopla surrounding Snow White and the Fox News of it all, very destructive.

[B]

It was one of those that it was kind of doomed before it came out. And that's always.

[A]

And they knew it. They punted it a year. Iger knew it. When he was fighting with the activist investors, he had two problem movies on the schedule this year or for that year, and it was Elio Pixar movie and Snow White. So he just punted them. And then they had to come out this year. Right.

[B]

The only couple that I could think of were just like, the whole 60 Minutes situation.

[A]

Sure. But was it destructive? Ratings are fine.

[B]

No, no, not for the show.

[A]

Just purely reputationally for democracy.

[B]

Purely reputation. Reputationally that one for our society. And then maybe the OpenAI Sora launch just, like, completely blew up in their face. And then they had to do one. They had to retrench. They. Then they then do this deal with Disney, which I don't know that it would have happened without that.

[A]

Oh, definitely not.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They had to fully retrench, get their house in order. They had to have, you know, the Disney General Council come to their retreat. They had to basically put their tail between their legs and say, okay, we tried to go scorched earth on the copyright industry. It did not work.

[B]

And by the way, our video app might be behind our competitors.

[A]

Exactly. So how do we do this? Oh, let's put Yoda and Peter Griffin on the app and see if it works. So that's how that. I agree.

[B]

I'm gonna go with OpenAI.

[A]

Yeah. Even though they had a good result for Sam Altman, I think that it was a pretty disgruntious.

[B]

Yeah, OpenAI as a company doing just fine.

[A]

Although they're spending a lot. And, you know, Google's kind of getting their act together.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Even though both of their AI searches suck. Like, they both suck.

[B]

Why is that? I don't know. I don't want AI search. I want regular search.

[A]

I like it when it's right, but it's not right. I mean, you and I are probably above average Google Earth.

[B]

This is the problem, is we're super.

[A]

Consumers and we care about accuracy, because if we're looking for something, we want it to.

[B]

We have very specific needs.

[A]

Yes. And I don't want to just, like, have AI nonsense. All right, we're digressing. Craig, please keep us on topic here.

[C]

Honorable mention for most destructive public backlash in the 11th hour here. I would say Trump's tweet about Rob Reiner kind of brought Democrats and Republicans together.

[A]

Agreed. In defense, that was. That's a late winner for this one. I mean, we don't need to talk about it. The whole thing is so awful and sad, but man.

[B]

And will read the room. Will any of that cling to him?

[A]

I don't know. I don't know. Fox is going hard on the pro Rob Reiner stuff. That's the interesting thing, is that. That I have not watched, but I've seen some of the coverage of Fox, and they're talking about how great he was and Laura Ingraham and Sean Hannity, how he was always willing to engage with them and like he's being sort of universally praised except for one person. Yeah, well, who happens to be the.

[B]

President usually when, I mean, we'll get to this with other people, but usually when someone dies, you don't pile on them.

[A]

Right. Especially if you are.

[B]

Especially if you are. If it seems to. If it seems like you were murdered and you did nothing wrong.

[A]

Exactly. Oh my God. All right, we don't need to get into that. Next topic.

[C]

Next category is the most baffling success of 2025.

[B]

I have one for this, I have one that. Or you go, well, I have one that I know that I debated using for a later category, but I struggled this category. So I put them here. And I'm going to say this is where I'm going to put David Zaslav.

[A]

Oh, most baffling success. I mean, sure, lay it out only.

[B]

In the sense that this is someone who, if you were to Warner Discovery CEO, the CEO of Warner Brothers Discovery had merged Warner Brothers and Discovery in a deal that he said was going to position them to take on Netflix. It didn't work. The stock price fell by 60 plus percent. He became probably the most hated executive in Hollywood just because of various efforts he made to cut costs and shelve.

[A]

Movies and show up at Cannes events in cream colored suits and just he.

[B]

Had a lot of PR blunders that did not help. And then he ends up pulling this deal off where the stock price shoots up. He's gonna get paid at a minimum $600 million. And at least for shareholders he can go out a conquering hero.

[A]

Sure. Took the company public at $24 a share. It's going to sell for at least $30 a share even if it's not.

[B]

A huge, huge win. He has pulled the rabbit out of the hack.

[A]

It is. And it's baffling because this guy is not a builder, this guy is not a founder.

[B]

He didn't do anything.

[A]

He didn't do anything. In fact, he did so much that hurt the company that it got bidders in place to say, oh, we can go after this. And then all of a sudden there are three of them interested and the stock shoots up.

[B]

His argument would be that this wouldn't have happened if he hadn't cleaned the company.

[A]

Oh no. He thinks that because Warner's had a good year at the box office, that's.

[B]

What made this between the good year at the box office and Some of the stuff they did on streaming.

[A]

Nobody's buying Warner Discovery because sinners did well in theaters. Like, I'm sorry, they're just not. They're buying it because of the library and because of the streaming subscribers and because of the infrastructure that they've built over a hundred years.

[B]

He's someone who a lot of people would use the phrase fail upwards.

[A]

Sure. And again, like, depends on your definition of what his job is. His job is to deliver value to shareholders. Right. And you can argue that he did that. But the circumstances that led to that are some of the most bizarre and indeed baffling that I've certainly ever seen. And some. I mean, look at. Did you see the disclosures that they put in their filing where a lot of these division heads at the company.

[B]

Are getting 150 million.

[A]

Are going to get over $100 million.

[B]

Well, not division head. It's like his direct reports.

[A]

Okay. But the head of HR making $30 million on a fire sale. The head of the streaming unit making $150 million like JB Peretti, smart guy. But like this is a fire sale of the company. This is not company they founded.

[B]

That's the thing.

[A]

So.

[B]

So. Cause this answer could have worked for Flex. It could work for Executive win of the year, which I think is where you're gonna go. And I. Because if you look at it at the beginning of the process, they were pushing out, we want $30 a share. And everyone was like, you're not gonna get it. And then they got it.

[A]

So they happened to have the world's second richest guy and the biggest entertainment company. Biggest entertainment company by market cap.

[B]

And another player that was at least interested.

[A]

Sure. But quickly realize that do not it's like a land war in Asia. Do not want to get involved in a bidding war between the Ellison's and Netflix.

[B]

What is your baffling success?

[A]

Mine is much lower stakes. Mine is Dancing with the stars. Season 34 of this show and the finale generated 10 million viewers.

[B]

Was so like I read the ratings.

[A]

Come for this show was like declared.

[B]

Better than it had been.

[A]

Oh, it's way up. It's way up this year. And I think what happened is they finally leaned into just casting social media stars. And they've done that in the past, but they really went.

[B]

Who did they have besides Alex Earl?

[A]

The guy who won was Steve Irwin's son, the crocodile guy. He has a big following. There were some others that I'm forgetting. But basically they leaned into the social media thing. They started putting clips on TikTok and really positioning it that well. And it worked. They got 10 million viewers.

[B]

So, so good for them.

[A]

Baffling.

[B]

Yeah. It is rare for a Show that long. 34th season, long in the tooth to go up.

[A]

They put it on Disney. Remember the Bob Chapek move? They put it on Disney exclusively.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And they undid that.

[B]

But yeah, I feel like a lot of those long running reality shows, whether it's Bachelor or American Idol, they can have. Maybe they just have a year where they pop up and become really popular. Well, there's some storyline like there was Love island, it felt like blew up even more in year seven or eight or whatever.

[A]

This was scandal thing on those shows. Yeah, exactly. Honestly, if this Warner Discovery thing closes and David Zaslav's out of a job, Dance with the Stars, man, he'd be great. I'd watch.

[B]

I don't see that in his.

[A]

Okay, Greg, next category.

[C]

All right, next up, most annoying media narrative of 2025.

[B]

I don't know that you're going to like mine. Oh, but I have three.

[A]

It's something that I wrote.

[B]

No, no, no, no. It's just not like mine is. Is the whole. Is the whole mini drama thing.

[A]

Oh, micro dramas. Yeah.

[B]

I have gotten requests like every few weeks to be interviewed for something about the rise of the mini drama. And I want to ask everyone who sends me that, do you watch them?

[A]

Do you know anyone who's watched them?

[B]

Yeah, we have just decided.

[A]

A relative in China, we have just.

[B]

Decided without a lot of evidence that this is the next huge trend. And also people are all like, drawing the wrong conclusion from Quibi, which was just like Quibi was too early, which is not the reason it didn't work.

[C]

Why didn't it work?

[B]

Quibi did not work because it was a bad idea. From the start. It assumed that people did not value YouTube and that if you made a better version of YouTube that it was people would pay for it.

[A]

But the people really like YouTube. No show's just fine because no one's gonna go to a separate platform and.

[B]

Pay money, too much money for something that wasn't. It was filling a need that did not exist anyways. Mini dramas are one of those things where, like, someone does a story and then every other news outlet has to do a story. And don't get me wrong, I'm sure a couple of companies will end up raising a bunch of money.

[A]

Well, half of the out of work TV executives are now working in micro dramas. If you look at like the big names from the 90s and 2000s, like Lloyd Braun, Jana Winogre. Like, these people that had big jobs are now, like, jumping aboard as if it's going to be the next thing. Feels very nft. Yeah. And then the other one I had was this whole narrative that 800 million is the new billion when it comes to.

[B]

I had a related one to this, which was the studios don't make movies to make money. Comments that people got when it was like, no, no, like, yeah, they just made it for the art. Okay, sure.

[A]

Or the. Or, you know, it's going to be huge on streaming.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Like the whole Amazon, Apple thing. Well, it doesn't really matter if they have box office. If it's going to be big on streaming. It's like, okay, well then what are they doing in the theatrical business? Like, Amazon is going to put 15 movies in theaters this year and they just don't want to make money on them.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, you know, you can make a $70 million Luca Guadagnino movie and put Julia Roberts in it and, like, if it grosses 10 million in the U.S. that's a failure. I don't care if you get to put Julia Roberts on a tile on Prime Video.

[B]

I feel like every year some version of our most. Or every year one of us picks for most annoying media narrative. Some version of, like, the people who want to pretend the movie business is something that it's not right now. Because there's always those folks.

[A]

Well, that was my other nominee, which is the whole narrative that original movies are back. You saw this this summer after Sinners, after Weapons, after Materialists. But honestly, if you look at the theatrical releases from this year, the only original movies that clearly made money on a wide basis. I'm not talking tiny indies. The only wide release movies that were original and made money were Sinners, Weapons, Materialists, and One of them days. Well, also F1, if you consider that original. I don't know, original characters, but Branded.

[B]

Yeah. So I had predicted that at the beginning of the year that all of the top 10 movies would be sequels, reboots, whatever, which is true. Unless you count F1. If you don't count F1, the highest grossing original movie is Sinners at number 16.

[A]

So there you go. Original movies are not back.

[B]

It's great when they work, it's very.

[A]

Nice and I hope they get made so we can have these moments when people get excited about original movies. But to say that original movies are going to overtake the branded stuff is pure fiction. My other one was just people getting all up in a huff over carriage fights. This is the carriage fight that matters. YouTube versus Disney. Forget all those other carriage fights. This is the one that really matters.

[B]

I had one that. I don't know if it's fair because it was actually more like a sources narrative thing. But if you talk to anyone about Warner Music Group this year, they would just be like Robert Kinsel, Dead Man Walking. And guess what, we're at the end of the year, still has a job. It always happens, though.

[A]

Yes. How many times has so and so been fired?

[B]

And I mean, yeah, it happens with.

[A]

A lot of the executives. Someday it'll be true.

[B]

Someday it'll be true and they can.

[A]

Say, I told you. Yes, exactly. All right, so there's a lot of nominees there. I'm going to go with the 800 is the new billion as my winner because you heard that all the time when these movies like Jurassic World and Minecraft, like huge hits, but did not get to a billion. And that's a problem. Like these movies would have grossed a billion dollars in the pre Covid times. And they're not getting there. And you can't just say, arguably it should be a billion is the new 800.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Because of inflation.

[B]

Right. So, all right, yeah, well, inflation and. But then like the loss of China and Russia. I don't know. It's complicated.

[A]

All right, next up, next up, the.

[C]

Least believable announcement of the year.

[B]

This is where I had Trump's tariffs.

[A]

Oh, okay. All right.

[B]

He.

[A]

That's better than what I had. Honestly, I had. I had one in here that I don't totally believe the whole Colbert was fired for his budget. Like, I actually kind of believe that.

[B]

Yeah, I did Colbert for something else.

[A]

I do kind of believe that Stephen Colbert's show is canceled because it's super expensive and doesn't make money. But the widespread belief around town is that politics was the only reason. I think it certainly played a factor.

[B]

The decline of Late Night is obvious. And if it wasn't going to be Colbert this year, it was going to be one of these shows in the next year or two.

[A]

I actually think that if there wasn't such backlash to that and there wasn't such scrutiny on Paramount, that they would have canceled the Daily show also.

[B]

You think so?

[A]

The Daily Show, Not a big moneymaker or sunsetted it after this year or something like that. But I think that because they had.

[B]

To add, especially with. If Stewart was willing to come back.

[A]

Yep, yep, yep, yep. The only other one was Jeremy Zimmer's Quote, unquote, retirement at uta. Like he was pushed out.

[B]

But whatever.

[C]

I see.

[B]

I think Trump's tariff wins just because it was one of those where like, okay, he spends some time talking to Stephen Paul and Jon Voight and he talks about tariffs and then there is zero follow up. He clearly knows nothing about what he's doing. And you could for least believable announcement if you were to step out of the entertainment business. You could just like list 10 Trump tweets. Right. Because he says he's going to do something and then he does.

[A]

Or his announcement at the Kennedy Center Awards that it's going to be the highest rated award show ever when we know that they don't have a football lead in this year and it's probably not even going to match last year. Yeah, we're not going to get into Trump stuff about that.

[B]

Fair.

[A]

Let's move on, Craig.

[C]

Next up, the sneaky success of 2025.

[A]

All right, now I have a couple of pretty obvious successes that just didn't get enough attention. And the first one, I think is the wizard of Oz at the Sphere.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Because the numbers that were coming out of there, $2 million a day at the Sphere, like that is insane and totally a surprise to me because I would have not, I would not have thought that people would pay 150, $200 for a reimagined version of wizard of Oz with some smoke and mirrors that makes you feel like you're in a tornado. Like, pretty amazing.

[B]

I can't pick something that I wrote about as somewhat extensively as a sneaky success of the year. This is the.

[A]

I told you so. I told you that it was a success.

[B]

No, no, because that would just be me telling you. But that was like that story. The newsletter I did on wizard of Oz of the Sphere was probably one of like my 10 most read pieces of the year.

[A]

Because I was like, holy shit, what are they? And those numbers are real. The 2 million a day, I mean.

[B]

They were at the time they, it changes. I don't know what they're growing because.

[A]

I, I actually, I believe I said this on the show last year, that I thought it would open and then it would peter out. Because, you know, the novelty was some of the research.

[B]

Some of the Wall street researchers have been publishing updates and I think the numbers are still good. They've come down a little, but they're still quite strong.

[A]

Yeah. And Vegas is down overall in, in visitors, so maybe that's a factor. But, you know, they do have new people coming in Every four days. So maybe they'll. Maybe they'll last for a long time. The only other one I had was. Was that Chinese movie.

[B]

I thought about Ney Zha, but I thought it got enough attention that I actually picked a different.

[A]

Well, it got attention, but I don't think people realize that unless Avatar exceeds.

[B]

It will be the highest grossing movie of the year.

[A]

It will be the highest grossing movie of the year.

[B]

By a lot. By a lot.

[A]

The first time that has ever happened that a non US Movie has become the highest grossing in a year. Yeah, like, that's a big deal.

[B]

Mine was, I thought, about 2.1 billion, by the way. I thought about Ney Zha. I felt like maybe it had gotten enough attention. But I take your point.

[A]

Did you watch it?

[B]

No. The two I put out there were the Demon Slayer movie, but all the.

[A]

Anime people are going to come after you. Oh, it's a huge franchise, man. You don't know what you're talking about.

[B]

But the average person has no idea that it grows $660 million. It was one of the six biggest.

[A]

I bet the average Japanese person does.

[B]

One of the seven biggest movies. Well, just like the average Chinese person is very aware of Ney Zha 2, but demon slayer broke out outside of Japan in a way that Ney Zha didn't outside of China.

[A]

That's true. Almost entirely a Chinese success. Neisha 2, it did gross 23 million.

[B]

In the U.S. whereas Demon Slayer, I think, grossed like it topped 100 million in the U.S. it was a huge thing and a sign of what is to come with anime. The other one that I did, smaller scale, but I was trying to think of a TV show, and I thought about the summer I turned pretty, which I'm in the middle of pouring through a bunch of viewership data. It was, I think, one of the 10 most watched streaming shows of the year. If I had told you it was the second biggest Amazon original after Reacher, I just don't think people would know that.

[A]

It's like, I don't know. It's the thing.

[B]

You think it's the thing.

[A]

I mean, not that I'm hanging out with teen girls, but, like, teen girls.

[B]

Teen girls? No. But the question is, is it permeating the rest of culture?

[A]

I don't know. I think it's pretty popular and people know about it.

[D]

My maker told his tale, and I will tell you mine. The New York Times raves, Frankenstein is the movie Guillermo del Toro was born to make.

[C]

To be lost and to be found.

[D]

That is The Lifespan of Love. Now nominated for 11 Critics Choice Awards and five Golden Globe Awards, including best director, Guillermo del Toro and the best picture of the year. I am not something. I Am Someone Frankenstein for your consideration. Now playing in select theaters and on Netflix. Rated R under 17. Not admitted without adult AMC. The home of award winning drama and unforgettable originals brings you more in 2026.

[B]

Prepare to have your mind mind blown.

[D]

With a new season of the critically acclaimed Dark Wings.

[A]

You cannot separate spirituality from upholding the law.

[D]

All new Anne Rice's the Vampire Lestat. I'm a rock star now. I am everywhere. Plus the Audacity, a bold new series from a producer of succession. And better Call Saul with Zach Galifianakis and Billy Magnuson coming in 2026 only to AMC.

[C]

Plus next up, we have the press tour de force for the best press tour of 2025.

[A]

Lots of contenders for this one, but, you know, I could have gone with Timmy Chalamet. Could have gone with the more muted Wicked2 Tour de France tour. I had. Tour de France tour de force. I'm going to go with Pam Anderson and Liam Neeson pretending that they were a couple during the Naked Gun press tour. I think it'd be pretty strong.

[B]

It'd be better if the movie did better.

[A]

Yeah, but it did fine. I think it got to like, you know, almost 100 worldwide. But that's a pretty strong game for 60 something year old actors.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Put it out there that they're dating and then all of a sudden when the movie comes out, it's like, oh, no, we're just friends. You know, maybe they were. Maybe something happened. Maybe they went on a date. I didn't follow that closely.

[B]

Sure. But I think this is the Sweeney Glen Powell romance, non romance with an older generation. I did Chalamet. We're not done with it. But I just feel like he sort of mastered the press tour where he.

[A]

He, even though he stepped over the line. We did a call sheet on this.

[C]

That's part of it, though.

[A]

The fact that he's talking about how by next summer he will have won an Oscar or insinuating that he will have won an Oscar by next summer.

[B]

I don't know that he's going to win an Oscar. I don't even know if the movie's going to work. And I think that he's, he's flirting with too much.

[A]

Yeah. But going on SNL in the musical performance as Bob Dylan, that's not too much.

[B]

It's more like his whole shtick where he goes on the different podcasts and has clearly over prepared and knows all the things to say.

[A]

There is no way that a theater kid from New York City knows that much about WWE wrestling.

[B]

Right.

[A]

There's just no way.

[B]

Sure. So I think at a certain point someone is gonna call bullshit, but for.

[A]

Now it's just more college football.

[B]

He's a big sports fan. I do think. I do buy that he's a big hip hop fan, but there, there's a. There's a degree to which he's going overboard and. But for now, I think I kind of love it. Like even the matching outfits with Kylie Jenner at the premiere. It just works.

[A]

It does.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And making the clothes into a thing. By the way, Craig still has not received his Marty supreme jacket.

[C]

I don't need or want the jacket.

[A]

He does need for drop the ball.

[B]

Because I'm coming at you later.

[A]

Yes. Oh, you are?

[B]

No, I forgot we got rid of that category.

[A]

Don't jeopardize Craig's jacket. Yeah, whatever you say.

[C]

The winner is not Pam and Liam. The winner is Timmy or Sydney Sweeney.

[A]

Sydney Sweeney. I don't know, man. Because yes, she's been promoting her movies literally since August, and she's still promoting them.

[C]

It doesn't work for the movies.

[B]

Credit works.

[C]

But it.

[B]

But it has kept her in the culture permanent.

[A]

It works for her. It does not work for the movies necessarily. But it gets to the question of why are you doing these press tours?

[C]

That's kind of a larger narrative of the year. Is like, all these press tours work for the celebs, but not for the.

[A]

Actual great jeans press tour. Clearly worked like that. Broke through and caused a stir, which is exactly what you want when you do something like that. And she knows that if she goes on a red carpet in a tiny dress or whatever, she can get attention. And she's deployed that very well. Do you think that every marketing department around town stormed into their Monday meeting and said, where the hell is our blimp?

[B]

No, no, no.

[A]

The Marty supreme blimp. Not the marketing moment of the year.

[B]

Like, maybe, I don't know.

[A]

I don't know. They got so much attention for a stupid blimp that was floating around LA like I was tweeting photos of it.

[B]

I'm sure there were. I'm sure that there were discussions about.

[A]

How, how can we kind of, where's our goddamn blimp?

[B]

How can we replicate you strategy?

[A]

I guarantee you people were yelling that.

[B]

At their first why you're not in the studio.

[A]

Yes, all right, let's move on.

[C]

Okay, the winner of that category is Chalamet. The next one is the Sneaky Bomb or bad deal of the Year.

[A]

I'll start with this one. Cause I wrote about this. It's the K Pop Demon Hunters deal that Sony did. They produced a slate of movies for Netflix born out of the COVID pandemic where Sony was desperate to get movies made and paid for. They did this slate deal with Netflix. One of those movies turned out to be K Pop Demon Hunters goes on. Netflix becomes its own biggest movie of all time. And there is no schmuck insurance in this deal that pays Sony hundreds of millions of dollars from the value that they have created for Netflix.

[B]

So I did. I picked this. I had this as a possibility in two different categories. Not this one. I hear you. I think it's one of those deals that looks worse in retrospect than it. Oh, yeah, of course. It totally made sense in the moment.

[A]

And that's what every deal lawyer is hired to prevent is a deal that looks good now but turns into a nightmare.

[B]

They will make tens of millions of dollars from the movie.

[A]

Hundreds of millions of dollars.

[B]

Yes. But I think you and I have both discussed, I don't know that the movie is as successful if it gets released in theaters. And so what you're really saying is in their deal with Netflix, there should have been schmuck insurance. There should have been something that if this becomes a huge whatever, like we participate more in some of the upcoming clause.

[A]

In the end, if this becomes in the top 10 of Netflix movies of all time based on viewership, we get a hundred million dollars easy. They'd be like, sure, fine, whatever. Doesn't matter to us. Never going to happen. And then it does. Like, that's the insurance. Now they're going to be able to make multiple movies. And Sony, Netflix threw them, I think some millions, I read. But they, like, gave them a little bonus. But, like, that's a pat on the head. Like, that is a condescending, like, oh, you know, thanks for. Thanks for a huge hit. I think that with a proper deal, they would be. They'd be dining out on this.

[B]

Yeah, they made enough money. I don't feel bad. I leaned into the bomb part more than the deal part. But we'll stick with Netflix. I still feel like we haven't talked enough about Electric State this year.

[A]

We haven't. I feel like I wouldn't shut up about it. Craig, was that the most depressing premiere that we went to all year?

[C]

Oh, boy.

[A]

I think it was pretty bad. Like Bella Bejaria was not there. The head of content, Dan Lin, the head of movies didn't go to the party. He like introduced it and didn't go like the party was kind of lame and just kind of.

[B]

Everyone knew $300 million maybe plus to get. To get this movie away from Universal, which said, take it, we don't want it.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Out of. And you continue to pump money into the Russo brothers who just make these expensive movies that nobody seems to like.

[A]

And it's shortlisted for the visual effects Oscar. How dare you.

[B]

The thing is, is that it's not even like a punchline. Like Red Notice became which popular. But everyone was like, God, this movie was awful.

[A]

This sort of peak Netflix movies, no one cared enough to make it a.

[B]

It was the most expensive significant movie in that way movie that they released this year. And it just came and went like that.

[A]

And it had the biggest star on Netflix in it, like Millie, Bobby Brown. Like you could justify making that movie based on the numbers they have on people. Damsel was the number one movie of the previous year.

[B]

Chris Pratt, huge movie star.

[A]

And they promoted the shit out of it. They went around the world, they pretended this was a real blockbuster and then it just came and people were like.

[B]

I wonder if it's the last of that type of movie for Netflix.

[C]

I think it is like the Red Notice, grammar, genre.

[B]

These movies that are just like incredible. I don't think they want to spend that much money on a movie. And if they are going to spend that much, it's got to be like as close to a sure thing as well.

[A]

Certainly if they buy Warner Brothers, they are not making original $300 million movies. They will have the Warner library to exploit and do those kinds of movies. They made these movies and it's the Zack Snyder, it's the Russo brothers. They see that they've had success in theaters with other studio movies and they're like, well, we could do that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it turns out it's actually a lot harder than it looks. Yes. Do you think that Avengers Doomsday will be a hit based on the standard of what an Avengers movie should and should do?

[B]

Well, I actually just looked this up, so the average Avengers movie to this point grossed about $1.9 billion. Do I think it's of the four? Of the four?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Do I think that it's going to gross $1.9 billion? Probably not. Do I think it's going to be a hit?

[A]

Yeah. Okay. I mean, a billion for sure.

[B]

Yes, A billion.

[A]

A billion. Five.

[B]

I don't know. You're trying to pre draft.

[A]

I know. We're not here. We got it. I am starting to do research, though. I'm asking people. I haven't started because there's this whole debate. You know, it's coming out the same day as Dune 3 and neither of them say they're moving. So we'll see what happens there. All right, let's move on.

[C]

Okay, next up, the In Memoriam award for the franchises that died this year.

[A]

Okay, so we. I know. Please play some sad music.

[B]

These are kind of obvious.

[A]

We need John Legend to come out and sing this category. So. Yeah, I mean, but the question is, who died the hardest? Who, who. Who flopped the biggest? I mean. Cause we could say Tron.

[B]

Tron was tron. Aries 200 plus million. I think it's between Tron and Meghan.

[A]

Okay, so let's do a flop off TRON. 200 million budget, about 140 million worldwide.

[B]

And like reviled financially. The answer is obviously Tron.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

I think the argument culturally, it's Tron as well.

[A]

Well, but you know what the problem with Tron, they have the theme park stuff.

[B]

I just feel like nobody asked for that movie. Nobody cared. And it's failed. I actually almost did it in the Sneaky Bomb because I feel like it was a huge disaster. And we didn't like all those stories about that there were about the struggles of the box office in the fall. They should have all led with Tron. That was the biggest movie released in the fall and nobody cared. Whereas with M3GAN, like Jason Blum supposed to not miss. Horror movies are so like.

[A]

But that's what makes M3GAN 2.0 a bigger bomb.

[B]

I agree.

[A]

Everybody asked for a sequel to M3gan and it's still. Still flop.

[B]

Well, and horror movies are supposed to be so cheap that like, even if it doesn't work, it doesn't really matter. Yeah. And they were trying to.

[A]

But they often do decline from the first one.

[B]

And they were trying to build a universe out of it, which they had to walk back. I just think given the.

[A]

They put Soulmate. There's a spin off that was scheduled for January. They had to take it off the calendar. They're shopping it now. You know, like how much of a debacle this has to be for Universal to take a Blumhouse movie off calendar. Right. Like that's bad. And we don't there. Maybe there's something else going on. Maybe they're part of A larger negotiation. We don't know the details. And Blum came on the show and very. And I have him in another category. Very savvily, like, diffused it. But, like, that's a big deal to. To completely immolate a franchise via choices. Creative choices.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, they just. They turned it into something that the fans didn't want.

[B]

Okay, we agree.

[A]

Yeah, I agree. Megan's the biggest flop because of what they had, what they squandered. Yeah.

[B]

Financially, Tron, a bigger disaster, but just sort of.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Perception wise.

[A]

And they'll have the Tron roller coasters forever. And I'm sure Jared Leto will be happy to lend his face to whatever pre.

[B]

Line show.

[A]

No, they'll have some show in the line that you watch him do something. Yeah.

[C]

Is there any conversation around Mission Impossible potentially dying this year?

[B]

I thought about it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, it just wasn't a failure. So, like.

[A]

Oh, it was. It lost money.

[C]

But did the franchise die?

[B]

Yes, because Tom Cruise is not going to die.

[A]

You think Tom Cruise is out forever?

[C]

I do.

[A]

Oh, no, dude, no. Tom Cruise will be back in some capacity in a Mission Impossible, but I.

[B]

Don'T think he'll be the star.

[C]

He hands it off to somebody else.

[A]

I'm not counting that. Or they may do a TV show and he's like, the leader. This is why.

[B]

This is why I didn't pick it. Because who knows? They could revisit the other one we didn't really talk about. Because I just don't think anyone cared.

[A]

But the Smurfs, no one cares.

[B]

I'm just. You see how poorly that movie did?

[A]

That was just like a lame Tom Rothman cash grab. Like, oh, heard of Smurfs? Yeah.

[C]

Okay, next up here, the Larry David Spite store of the year.

[B]

My favorite category.

[A]

Okay. I have.

[B]

I don't get this category, but I.

[A]

Think someone who had a bad experience at one place and said, f you, I'm taking my talents elsewhere. It's him and Mocha Joe. He had a bad experience.

[C]

You didn't watch the Mocha Joe?

[B]

I don't like curves.

[A]

Larry had a fight with the head of a coffee shop and decided to start his own coffee shop. Next.

[B]

I don't know that my answers apply to this, but we'll go ahead anyways.

[A]

I'm going with Chris McCarthy, who was fired, exited in the Paramount sale to Skydance. He ran the streaming TV group. He goes and follows Taylor Sheridan over to Universal. Taylor Sheridan, the big talent that he managed and let do whatever he want and was his guy Taylor Sheridan goes to universal and Chris McCarthy's like, okay, I'll go over there and I'm gonna, like, launch bombs at my former employer.

[B]

See, I think you got this one wrong. I think that the spite person in this is Taylor Sheridan.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I think it's that David Ellison comes in and obviously. And fires. I mean, says Chris McCarthy, we don't need you anymore. And tries to kind of make sure his relationship with Taylor Sheridan is good. Cause he's the most important producer at the end of the day.

[A]

But didn't try hard enough.

[B]

Didn't try hard enough, or didn't do it properly. And Taylor Sheridan says, fuck you. I'm going three years before I'm announcing, three years before my contract is up that I'm out. So I think it's Taylor Sheridan. The other one I thought about, but it doesn't quite work in terms of leaving. It's Ellison related. Is south park going scorched earth on Trump this season where Trump, like, medals.

[A]

That's not a spite store. They were not wronged by Trump. In fact, Trump fans like South Park.

[B]

I think they felt like the administration was messing with them in their negotiations. And with.

[A]

They did put out a statement saying that this whole Paramount sale is screwing up South Park.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

But I think it's.

[B]

I think it's Taylor Sheridan. I don't think it's Chris McCarthy.

[A]

All right, I get it. I mean, the Taylor Sheridan thing, but, like, that's just talent. Following the money, really. Like they were going to pay him a bunch.

[B]

But he was. But Chris McCarthy was out of a job. And so of course he was going to go and work with the guy who he's been aligned with, Taylor Sheridan.

[A]

I'm assuming he had other options.

[B]

I think Ellison could have offered him plenty of money or figured something out if he really wanted to. And Taylor Sheridan.

[A]

You're right. The Taylor Sheridan thing, not just to do the move, but to have it reported and announced. And like, it's just a huge middle finger.

[B]

I think the fact that it's three years early is what makes me feel like it's the. Yes. It's like we now have to work together for three years and every story.

[A]

Talking about every piece of talent that Ellison picks up is going to have in it. But he lost Taylor Sheridan and meanwhile, Tulsa, King, Landman, they're all huge audience. Yes. Okay. The only other one I had was Cindy Holland and Paramount going after the Duff Brothers.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because Cindy Holland, I mean, I had her as the spicer last year because she left Got fired by Netflix and then went to Paramount and is now running streaming for them. But they're clearly going after Netflix talent.

[B]

Yeah, sure they did and they did. Not that this was all about Netflix, but they did the UFC deal that Netflix thought it had.

[A]

Exactly. And now they're fighting over Warner Brothers. So the spite stuff is there, but Cindy happens to have worked at Netflix for many years and gotten fired. So her spite store is to bring the talent over to Paramount, even though the Duffer Brothers went there because they're getting movies in theaters.

[C]

All right, the last category of part one. Drumroll, please. The deal of the year.

[B]

This is where I had Netflix K Pop. The Netflix Sony deal.

[A]

Okay. Bigger than Netflix buying Warner Brothers.

[B]

Well, it just depends on that.

[A]

Deal's not done yet. Although it is done, but it's still being challenged.

[B]

I guess I tried to pick something that wasn't like patently obvious. Okay, like, sure, it's just hard to ignore by numbers. The biggest deal of the year is unquestionably by numbers.

[A]

But in terms of impact industry, just earth shaking inability to talk about anything else at a party except this.

[B]

There is no question that the deal of the year is the Netflix Warner Brothers. I would feel more comfortable if we were resolved in this. It's certainly looking good for Netflix right now with Warner Brothers basically telling Paramount that they botched this whole thing badly. And so, yes, it's the biggest deal. It has the biggest impact. It fundamentally changes Netflix, which is the biggest company in the industry right now. It puts Warner Brothers one of the most important studios under new ownership. It impacts the theaters, it impacts the theater business. It's a fight between the Ellisons and Netflix. There's many, many. It's why I've had written about almost nothing else over the last several weeks. So, yes, unquestionably the biggest deal of the year. I think on a smaller level, I brought up Netflix K Pop just because they got the biggest movie of the year out of like this random Sony output deal they did a few years ago. And that's pretty great for them.

[C]

Yeah, like the most valuable IP that was created this year has to be Netflix getting K Pop Demon Hunters.

[A]

Yeah, I agree. I would argue that Amazon acquiring the James Bond franchise from the Broccoli was the most shocking feel of the year.

[B]

Shocking feel.

[A]

Every single conversation I've ever had with Barbara and press interview she's ever done has been about. This is not about people who are here now. This is about the family asset and stewarding this franchise into the future. And then Lo and behold, one day we're out.

[B]

Okay, two questions on that one. When you talk to Barbara, do you ever call her Babs? No, of course not.

[A]

She is Ms. Barbara Broccoli.

[B]

Secondly, can you pick that when it only happened because Amazon so badly fucked up the relationship with.

[A]

I mean, that's sort of part of the reason is that she was blocking them from making Bond movies because she hated them. She had a bad experience with Jen Salke, who ended up leaving the company. I think in part because of the end of this, the fact they couldn't get Bond movies made and that she just kind of threw up her hands. I mean, I do think it's a little bit. It's almost to put it in the Dodgers, in the Dodgers context, it's a little bit like the o' Malley family selling the Dodgers because they were looking at the landscape and saying, you know what? I don't think we can do this as a family business anymore. Let's sell to corporate owners or even the buses with Jeannie looking at it and selling to the Guggenheim people with the Lakers.

[B]

We don't have the money to do this anymore.

[A]

Family ownership, it's not money necessarily. It's just like the entertainment landscape has so changed.

[B]

Well, but that's what I mean is.

[A]

That making one movie every five years and getting a studio to pay 200 something million dollars to make and another 150 to market, like, it's just, it's such an endeavor that they were probably like, you know what, let them do it. They want to do it. And dealing with Amazon and all the asks that they would have and putting James Bond's face on packages and all of that, they probably were just like, fuck this, we're out. We still don't know what they made. There's some weird stuff that they reported in the UK that was a very low number. But that's not the number. Yeah, that's not the. Okay. The only other ones I had was Taylor Sheridan leaving Paramount for Universal. Huge deal. Disney OpenAI. Still early days on that. I don't think certainly like a surprising deal.

[B]

Symbolic, but I don't think significant enough as a business.

[A]

And then ufc, Paramount, where everyone thought that would go to Netflix. And then Ellison comes in and pays $8 billion even. Especially since the guy that's been advising him, Ari Emanuel, also is the CEO of ko.

[B]

I thought about doing something on. I didn't know where to fit it on Ari. Not just selling him ufc, but then they did the PBR deal with bull riding. I think they also did the boxing deal.

[A]

No conflict, no interest. No conflict, no interest. With Ari. Good for him. Candidate for who won the year, Ari Emanuel.

[B]

Yeah, I guess.

[A]

Okay, I'm gonna end this with a teaser that is going to get people to listen to part two that you're only gonna answer in part two.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Bigger embarrassment for a once dominant filmmaker. Alto Knights Barry Levinson or Ella McKay. James L. Brooks coming up next. Coming up next on part two. Think about it.

[B]

I already have my answer.

[A]

All right, that's the show for today. Want to thank my guest, Lukas Shaw, producer Craig Horlebeck, artist Jesse Lopez and I want to thank you. We will see you tomorrow for part two of the townies.

[B]

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[D]

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[A]

Limu is that guy with the binoculars watching us. Cut the camera.

[D]

They see us.

[B]

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[A]

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